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Paris on Vista? [message #78091]

Tue, 09 January 2007 15:39

Tony
Messages: 7
Registered: July 2005

Junior Member

Anyone who have tried paris with Vista?

Tony

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Re: Paris on Vista? [message #78100 is a reply to message #78091]

Tue, 09 January 2007 17:45

John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005

Senior Member

using xp drivers ?

"Tony" <Tony@glocalnet.com> wrote:
>
>Anyone who have tried paris with Vista?
>
>Tony

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Re: Paris on Vista? [message #78102 is a reply to message #78100]

Tue, 09 January 2007 18:05

Tony
Messages: 7
Registered: July 2005

Junior Member

Yes! using XP drivers (sorry if this one is a dumb question, I've been working
full time for years with Paris now and have not updated my self in Paris
issues since XP was released)

Tony

"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>
>using xp drivers ?
>
>"Tony" <Tony@glocalnet.com> wrote:
>>
>>Anyone who have tried paris with Vista?
>>
>>Tony
>

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Re: Paris on Vista? [message #78103 is a reply to message #78102]

Tue, 09 January 2007 17:33

Chris Ludwig

Messages: 868
Registered: May 2006

Senior Member

NO!

Tony wrote:

>Yes! using XP drivers (sorry if this one is a dumb question, I've been working
>full time for years with Paris now and have not updated my self in Paris
>issues since XP was released)
>
>Tony
>
>"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>
>
>>using xp drivers ?
>>
>>"Tony" <Tony@glocalnet.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Anyone who have tried paris with Vista?
>>>
>>>Tony
>>>
>>>
>
>
>

--
Chris Ludwig
ADK
chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
(859) 635-5762

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Re: Paris on Vista? [message #78136 is a reply to message #78103]

Wed, 10 January 2007 09:17

Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005

Senior Member

..well.....this means I need to try to get this to work, now doesn't it? I'll
try to free up a week or two.

;o)

"Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message
news:45a43f94$1@linux...
> NO!
>
> Tony wrote:
>
>>Yes! using XP drivers (sorry if this one is a dumb question, I've been
>>working
>>full time for years with Paris now and have not updated my self in Paris
>>issues since XP was released)
>>
>>Tony
>>
>>"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>
>>>using xp drivers ?
>>>
>>>"Tony" <Tony@glocalnet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Anyone who have tried paris with Vista?
>>>>
>>>>Tony
>>>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Chris Ludwig
> ADK
> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
> (859) 635-5762

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Re: Paris on Vista? [message #78149 is a reply to message #78136]

Wed, 10 January 2007 12:08

Chris Ludwig

Messages: 868
Registered: May 2006

Senior Member

Ha
I dare you to enter the world of Vista. It will break you will DJ for
sure...:)

heres a tip: there is no possibility of install or running unsigned
drivers in vista with out using the f8 boot option and choosing the
special function to allow unsigned drivers. You have to do this every
time you boot the machine. There no way to have the machine both in that
state automatically. Oh and the windows drivers model has changed allot
from XP so don't expect the driver to be usable no matter what.

Vista 32 bit has absolutely no benefit for anyone compared to XP.

DJ wrote:
> .well.....this means I need to try to get this to work, now doesn't it? I'll
> try to free up a week or two.
>
> ;o)
>
>
> "Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message
> news:45a43f94$1@linux...
>> NO!
>>
>> Tony wrote:
>>
>>> Yes! using XP drivers (sorry if this one is a dumb question, I've been
>>> working
>>> full time for years with Paris now and have not updated my self in Paris
>>> issues since XP was released)
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> using xp drivers ?
>>>>
>>>> "Tony" <Tony@glocalnet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Anyone who have tried paris with Vista?
>>>>>
>>>>> Tony
>>>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Chris Ludwig
>> ADK
>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>> (859) 635-5762
>
>

--
Chris Ludwig

ADK Pro Audio
(859) 635-5762
www.adkproaudio.com
chrisl@adkproaudio.com

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Re: Paris on Vista? [message #78151 is a reply to message #78149]

Wed, 10 January 2007 12:12

EK Sound

Messages: 939
Registered: June 2005

Senior Member

DOH! You KNOW he's gotta try it now!!! ;-)

David.

Chris Ludwig wrote:

> Ha
> I dare you to enter the world of Vista. It will break you will DJ for
> sure...:)
>
> heres a tip: there is no possibility of install or running unsigned
> drivers in vista with out using the f8 boot option and choosing the
> special function to allow unsigned drivers. You have to do this every
> time you boot the machine. There no way to have the machine both in that
> state automatically. Oh and the windows drivers model has changed allot
> from XP so don't expect the driver to be usable no matter what.
>
> Vista 32 bit has absolutely no benefit for anyone compared to XP.
>
>
> DJ wrote:
>
>> .well.....this means I need to try to get this to work, now doesn't
>> it? I'll try to free up a week or two.
>>
>> ;o)
>>
>>
>> "Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message
>> news:45a43f94$1@linux...
>>
>>> NO!
>>>
>>> Tony wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes! using XP drivers (sorry if this one is a dumb question, I've
>>>> been working
>>>> full time for years with Paris now and have not updated my self in
>>>> Paris
>>>> issues since XP was released)
>>>>
>>>> Tony
>>>>
>>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> using xp drivers ?
>>>>>
>>>>> "Tony" <Tony@glocalnet.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone who have tried paris with Vista?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tony
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Chris Ludwig
>>> ADK
>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>> (859) 635-5762
>>
>>
>>
>

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Re: Paris on Vista? [message #78154 is a reply to message #78151]

Wed, 10 January 2007 13:44

John [1]

Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005

Senior Member

Vista == XP: Nazi version Ve Vill Shut Vou Down !!!

EK Sound wrote:
> DOH! You KNOW he's gotta try it now!!! ;-)
>
> David.
>
> Chris Ludwig wrote:
>
>> Ha
>> I dare you to enter the world of Vista. It will break you will DJ for
>> sure...:)
>>
>> heres a tip: there is no possibility of install or running unsigned
>> drivers in vista with out using the f8 boot option and choosing the
>> special function to allow unsigned drivers. You have to do this every
>> time you boot the machine. There no way to have the machine both in
>> that state automatically. Oh and the windows drivers model has changed
>> allot from XP so don't expect the driver to be usable no matter what.
>>
>> Vista 32 bit has absolutely no benefit for anyone compared to XP.
>>
>>
>> DJ wrote:
>>
>>> .well.....this means I need to try to get this to work, now doesn't
>>> it? I'll try to free up a week or two.
>>>
>>> ;o)
>>>
>>>
>>> "Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message
>>> news:45a43f94$1@linux...
>>>
>>>> NO!
>>>>
>>>> Tony wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes! using XP drivers (sorry if this one is a dumb question, I've
>>>>> been working
>>>>> full time for years with Paris now and have not updated my self in
>>>>> Paris
>>>>> issues since XP was released)
>>>>>
>>>>> Tony
>>>>>
>>>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> using xp drivers ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Tony" <Tony@glocalnet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyone who have tried paris with Vista?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tony
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Chris Ludwig
>>>> ADK
>>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>>> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>>> (859) 635-5762
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

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Re: Paris on Vista? [message #78169 is a reply to message #78149]

Wed, 10 January 2007 15:13

Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005

Senior Member

You dare me!!!!????? Damn dude!!! This sounds seriously scary. I take it
that Vista isn't high on the list of your recommendations. I've actually
been seriously wondering if some of the software/hardware companies might be
looking a bit harder at Linux implementation.

;o)
Deej

"Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message
news:45a544e3@linux...
> Ha
> I dare you to enter the world of Vista. It will break you will DJ for
> sure...:)
>
> heres a tip: there is no possibility of install or running unsigned
> drivers in vista with out using the f8 boot option and choosing the
> special function to allow unsigned drivers. You have to do this every time
> you boot the machine. There no way to have the machine both in that state
> automatically. Oh and the windows drivers model has changed allot from XP
> so don't expect the driver to be usable no matter what.
>
> Vista 32 bit has absolutely no benefit for anyone compared to XP.
>
>
> DJ wrote:
>> .well.....this means I need to try to get this to work, now doesn't it?
>> I'll try to free up a week or two.
>>
>> ;o)
>>
>>
>> "Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message
>> news:45a43f94$1@linux...
>>> NO!
>>>
>>> Tony wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes! using XP drivers (sorry if this one is a dumb question, I've been
>>>> working
>>>> full time for years with Paris now and have not updated my self in
>>>> Paris
>>>> issues since XP was released)
>>>>
>>>> Tony
>>>>
>>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> using xp drivers ?
>>>>>
>>>>> "Tony" <Tony@glocalnet.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone who have tried paris with Vista?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tony
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Chris Ludwig
>>> ADK
>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>> (859) 635-5762
>>
>>
>
> --
> Chris Ludwig
>
> ADK Pro Audio
> (859) 635-5762
> www.adkproaudio.com
> chrisl@adkproaudio.com

Report message to a moderator

Re: Paris on Vista? [message #78172 is a reply to message #78169]

Wed, 10 January 2007 16:05

Chris Ludwig

Messages: 868
Registered: May 2006

Senior Member

HI DJ,

Vista is a much bigger jump than the jump from 95 to 98 or from NT to xp
even bigger than 98 to xp. At least from the hardware driver end of things.

DJ wrote:
> You dare me!!!!????? Damn dude!!! This sounds seriously scary. I take it
> that Vista isn't high on the list of your recommendations.

I'm predicting at least a year before it gets fully accepted in the pro
world. This will also depend on Apple's moves in the next year will I
think will effect how fast some pro audio and video companies will
commit to vista.

Also don't forget how long it took Win 3.0, win95, win98, ME, 2k and xp
to be solid enough to use in a studio.

I've actually
> been seriously wondering if some of the software/hardware companies might be
> looking a bit harder at Linux implementation.

I wish....

>
> ;o)
> Deej
>
>
> "Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message
> news:45a544e3@linux...
>> Ha
>> I dare you to enter the world of Vista. It will break you will DJ for
>> sure...:)
>>
>> heres a tip: there is no possibility of install or running unsigned
>> drivers in vista with out using the f8 boot option and choosing the
>> special function to allow unsigned drivers. You have to do this every time
>> you boot the machine. There no way to have the machine both in that state
>> automatically. Oh and the windows drivers model has changed allot from XP
>> so don't expect the driver to be usable no matter what.
>>
>> Vista 32 bit has absolutely no benefit for anyone compared to XP.
>>
>>
>> DJ wrote:
>>> .well.....this means I need to try to get this to work, now doesn't it?
>>> I'll try to free up a week or two.
>>>
>>> ;o)
>>>
>>>
>>> "Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message
>>> news:45a43f94$1@linux...
>>>> NO!
>>>>
>>>> Tony wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes! using XP drivers (sorry if this one is a dumb question, I've been
>>>>> working
>>>>> full time for years with Paris now and have not updated my self in
>>>>> Paris
>>>>> issues since XP was released)
>>>>>
>>>>> Tony
>>>>>
>>>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> using xp drivers ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Tony" <Tony@glocalnet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyone who have tried paris with Vista?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tony
>>>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Chris Ludwig
>>>> ADK
>>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>>> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>>> (859) 635-5762
>>>
>> --
>> Chris Ludwig
>>
>> ADK Pro Audio
>> (859) 635-5762
>> www.adkproaudio.com
>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com
>
>

--
Chris Ludwig

ADK Pro Audio
(859) 635-5762
www.adkproaudio.com
chrisl@adkproaudio.com

Report message to a moderator

Re: Paris on Vista? [message #78173 is a reply to message #78172]

Wed, 10 January 2007 16:11

Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005

Senior Member

Understood Chris, I have been very seriously thinking of getting a new Intel
Mac just to hedge my bets. Those Apogee interfaces look pretty tasty.

Deej

"Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message
news:45a57c8e$1@linux...
>
> HI DJ,
>
> Vista is a much bigger jump than the jump from 95 to 98 or from NT to xp
> even bigger than 98 to xp. At least from the hardware driver end of
> things.
>
> DJ wrote:
>> You dare me!!!!????? Damn dude!!! This sounds seriously scary. I take it
>> that Vista isn't high on the list of your recommendations.
>
> I'm predicting at least a year before it gets fully accepted in the pro
> world. This will also depend on Apple's moves in the next year will I
> think will effect how fast some pro audio and video companies will commit
> to vista.
>
> Also don't forget how long it took Win 3.0, win95, win98, ME, 2k and xp to
> be solid enough to use in a studio.
>
>
>
> I've actually
>> been seriously wondering if some of the software/hardware companies might
>> be looking a bit harder at Linux implementation.
>
> I wish....
>
>>
>> ;o)
>> Deej
>>
>>
>> "Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message
>> news:45a544e3@linux...
>>> Ha
>>> I dare you to enter the world of Vista. It will break you will DJ for
>>> sure...:)
>>>
>>> heres a tip: there is no possibility of install or running unsigned
>>> drivers in vista with out using the f8 boot option and choosing the
>>> special function to allow unsigned drivers. You have to do this every
>>> time you boot the machine. There no way to have the machine both in that
>>> state automatically. Oh and the windows drivers model has changed allot
>>> from XP so don't expect the driver to be usable no matter what.
>>>
>>> Vista 32 bit has absolutely no benefit for anyone compared to XP.
>>>
>>>
>>> DJ wrote:
>>>> .well.....this means I need to try to get this to work, now doesn't it?
>>>> I'll try to free up a week or two.
>>>>
>>>> ;o)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:45a43f94$1@linux...
>>>>> NO!
>>>>>
>>>>> Tony wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes! using XP drivers (sorry if this one is a dumb question, I've
>>>>>> been working
>>>>>> full time for years with Paris now and have not updated my self in
>>>>>> Paris
>>>>>> issues since XP was released)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tony
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> using xp drivers ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Tony" <Tony@glocalnet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyone who have tried paris with Vista?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tony
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Chris Ludwig
>>>>> ADK
>>>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>>>> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>>>> (859) 635-5762
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Chris Ludwig
>>>
>>> ADK Pro Audio
>>> (859) 635-5762
>>> www.adkproaudio.com
>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com
>>
>>
>
> --
> Chris Ludwig
>
> ADK Pro Audio
> (859) 635-5762
> www.adkproaudio.com
> chrisl@adkproaudio.com

Report message to a moderator

Re: Paris on Vista? [message #78179 is a reply to message #78169]

Wed, 10 January 2007 20:30

Doug Wellington

Messages: 251
Registered: June 2005
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA

Senior Member

The real Doug wrote:
> I've actually been seriously wondering if some of the
> software/hardware companies might be looking a bit harder
> at Linux implementation.

Linux is great for embedded and server applications. But for the
desktop? BLECH!!!

Doug

http://www.parisfaqs.com

http://www.parisfaqs.com

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Re: Paris on Vista? [message #78180 is a reply to message #78173]

Wed, 10 January 2007 20:39

Doug Wellington

Messages: 251
Registered: June 2005
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA

Senior Member

DJ wrote:
> Understood Chris, I have been very seriously thinking of getting a new Intel
> Mac just to hedge my bets.

I love my Macbook. I've got Parallels installed, so I run Windows XP
and (gasp!) even Linux on it. I have a V-Fire, so I'm plugged right
into the big mixing rig digitally...

Doug

http://www.parisfaqs.com

http://www.parisfaqs.com

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Re: Paris on Vista? [message #78196 is a reply to message #78169]

Thu, 11 January 2007 13:28

Messages: 199
Registered: February 2006

Senior Member

DJ,

I am actually surprised that there isn't more attention about linux. I
have been sneaking peeks at some software and projects people have been
attempting with linux and a recording studio. Some are very successful. An
example is a studio in MN that converted totally to linux a while back...
perhaps when we were looking for Paris 3.1... grrrrrr. it irks the sheet
outta me how they promised and high tailed it, but continue to charge...
Actually, the BBB probably would put an end to it if enough people
complained.

http://multitrack.us/index.html

Like many here, I am so accustomed to Paris, it is hard to tear myself
away from it.... but I think everyone will agree that we all soon will have
to move on... I am so tired of the proprietary bullshit I could scream.
I'll admit I was one of the first way back when to scramble about and get
rid of that virii infested Pace. I run Paris smoothly on a Pent 4, Win
2000, and without Pace! I can restore, replace motherboard and drives
without headaches... anyway, I am not linux guru, but I think that when the
time comes to put my Paris down... I am gonna consider linux... Just
think... all software is totally free... OMG! If you search around, some of
the linux software projects is actually pretty amazing

"DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote in message news:45a5701e$1@linux...
> You dare me!!!!????? Damn dude!!! This sounds seriously scary. I take it
> that Vista isn't high on the list of your recommendations. I've actually
> been seriously wondering if some of the software/hardware companies might
> be looking a bit harder at Linux implementation.
>
> ;o)
> Deej
>
>
> "Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message
> news:45a544e3@linux...
>> Ha
>> I dare you to enter the world of Vista. It will break you will DJ for
>> sure...:)
>>
>> heres a tip: there is no possibility of install or running unsigned
>> drivers in vista with out using the f8 boot option and choosing the
>> special function to allow unsigned drivers. You have to do this every
>> time you boot the machine. There no way to have the machine both in that
>> state automatically. Oh and the windows drivers model has changed allot
>> from XP so don't expect the driver to be usable no matter what.
>>
>> Vista 32 bit has absolutely no benefit for anyone compared to XP.
>>
>>
>> DJ wrote:
>>> .well.....this means I need to try to get this to work, now doesn't it?
>>> I'll try to free up a week or two.
>>>
>>> ;o)
>>>
>>>
>>> "Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message
>>> news:45a43f94$1@linux...
>>>> NO!
>>>>
>>>> Tony wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes! using XP drivers (sorry if this one is a dumb question, I've been
>>>>> working
>>>>> full time for years with Paris now and have not updated my self in
>>>>> Paris
>>>>> issues since XP was released)
>>>>>
>>>>> Tony
>>>>>
>>>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> using xp drivers ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Tony" <Tony@glocalnet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyone who have tried paris with Vista?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tony
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Chris Ludwig
>>>> ADK
>>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>>> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>>> (859) 635-5762
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Chris Ludwig
>>
>> ADK Pro Audio
>> (859) 635-5762
>> www.adkproaudio.com
>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com
>
>

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Linux. Was: Paris on Vista? [message #78217 is a reply to message #78196]

Thu, 11 January 2007 21:39

Doug Wellington

Messages: 251
Registered: June 2005
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA

Senior Member

Ed wrote:
> I am actually surprised that there isn't more attention about linux.

Well, I use Linux every day, so there's PLENTY of attention on it where
I work! [COUNTS ON FINGERS] Hmm, I bet there are 300+ Linux boxes in
the company. It really depends what niche you're in how much attention
Linux gets. As I've said before, Linux, great for embedded and server
apps, less than optimal for the desktop. (Yes...it's getting better...
Yes...some day the average computer user might be able to figure it
out... Yes...some day Linux might support all the common hardware...
Yes...some day it might be easy to program GUI apps under Linux...)

> I have been sneaking peeks at some software and projects people have been
> attempting with linux and a recording studio. Some are very successful. An
> example is a studio in MN that converted totally to linux a while back...

If you're referring to Mirror Image Studios, they seem to still be using
a Mac for DP, Logic and Peak. While I applaud efforts such as Lilypond,
Rosegarden and even Ardour, they just can't compete with commercial
products... (Lilypond probably comes closest, but then I think part of
the appeal is that it's not limited to just Linux.)

> Like many here, I am so accustomed to Paris, it is hard to tear myself
> away from it.... but I think everyone will agree that we all soon will have
> to move on...

....cold, dead, fingers... ;) As I alluded to in a different thread,
I'm not going to move on from my old synths either...

> I am so tired of the proprietary bullshit I could scream.

Heehee, I can say that about FOSS ("free/open sores software") too!
Favorite quote from the Linux community, "you have the source, you fix
it!" Sorry man, I have a studio to run, I don't WANT to fix it. And
I'm definitely tired of the patch du jour thing...

> anyway, I am not linux guru, but I think that when the
> time comes to put my Paris down... I am gonna consider linux... Just
> think... all software is totally free...

No, it's not... IMHO, one of the biggest problems with the Linux
community (and pretty much anything GPL) is the *EXPECTATION* that
everything will be free...

> If you search around, some of the linux software projects
> is actually pretty amazing

Sure, sure, there's some cool stuff out there, but you can find cool
stuff on Windows, OS X, Palm, etc as well. All depends upon what you
want to see...

Doug

http://www.parisfaqs.com

http://www.parisfaqs.com

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