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Controlling kick drum dynamics? [message #89487] Sat, 08 September 2007 05:31 Go to next message
John [1] is currently offline  John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
Senior Member
I'm trying to get my dynamics under control and my kick is causing me the
largest problem. My goal is a crest factor of 14 for my overall mix and
right now it's more like 20. When I use various compressers / limiters /
eqs etc to control the dynamics it is killing the low freq thump. Does anyone
have tips on how to control this wild kick drum without hosing up the tone?

Thanks
Re: Controlling kick drum dynamics? [message #89488 is a reply to message #89487] Sat, 08 September 2007 05:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
John [1] is currently offline  John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
Senior Member
I'm just working on this individual kick channel and not the master bus currently.
It's just the kick that is killing me.
Re: Controlling kick drum dynamics? [message #89490 is a reply to message #89487] Sat, 08 September 2007 07:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mikep[2] is currently offline  Mikep[2]
Messages: 1
Registered: September 2007
Junior Member
Have you tried a mulitband compressor?
I like to use the WaveArts Multi on my drums, I sometimes use it to compress
the low mids(150hz - 600hz) and expand both the lows(usually below 80hz)
and high mids(3khz - 6khz).
Then I'll add a little limiting to give some control to the what is happening
with the expander. This gives my kick or toms more punch and attack without
crowding or muddying the mix. Also, this technique can bring out the toms
without bringing more cymbal bleed into the mix.

Good Luck!


"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>
>I'm trying to get my dynamics under control and my kick is causing me the
>largest problem. My goal is a crest factor of 14 for my overall mix and
>right now it's more like 20. When I use various compressers / limiters
/
>eqs etc to control the dynamics it is killing the low freq thump. Does
anyone
>have tips on how to control this wild kick drum without hosing up the tone?
>
>Thanks
Re: Controlling kick drum dynamics? [message #89500 is a reply to message #89487] Sat, 08 September 2007 11:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DJ is currently offline  DJ   FRANCE
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
Senior Member
You need an SPL Transient Designer.

http://mercenary.com/spltrde2.html

You need it now.......immediately........pronto!!!

It's your birthday. Spend money.

;o)


"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:46e29614$1@linux...
>
> I'm trying to get my dynamics under control and my kick is causing me the
> largest problem. My goal is a crest factor of 14 for my overall mix and
> right now it's more like 20. When I use various compressers / limiters /
> eqs etc to control the dynamics it is killing the low freq thump. Does
> anyone
> have tips on how to control this wild kick drum without hosing up the
> tone?
>
> Thanks
Re: Controlling kick drum dynamics? [message #89503 is a reply to message #89488] Sat, 08 September 2007 13:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rick is currently offline  rick   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
Senior Member
just wtf is wrong with it.? are you trying for equality of every hit?
tonality? level? is it mushy? clicky? what? are you trying to have
it sit with the bass...mix...?


On 8 Sep 2007 22:33:48 +1000, "John" <no@no.com> wrote:

>
>
>I'm just working on this individual kick channel and not the master bus currently.
> It's just the kick that is killing me.
Re: Controlling kick drum dynamics? [message #89525 is a reply to message #89487] Sat, 08 September 2007 19:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LaMon is currently offline  LaMon
Messages: 18
Registered: June 2007
Junior Member
John, you a couple of options..

-Compress..EQ..hard work,,but works

-Use Transien Plugin like waves Transient plus..Nice http://www.waves.com/Content.aspx?id=286

-Voxengo (2 plugins) LowF Punch and Tranmodder http://www.voxengo.com/product/lfpunch/
www.voxengo.com/product/tmodder/

LAstly and my Fav option: Use drummgog..Locate a the good Bass drum sample..
Boom..Job done.. :)



"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>
>I'm trying to get my dynamics under control and my kick is causing me the
>largest problem. My goal is a crest factor of 14 for my overall mix and
>right now it's more like 20. When I use various compressers / limiters
/
>eqs etc to control the dynamics it is killing the low freq thump. Does
anyone
>have tips on how to control this wild kick drum without hosing up the tone?
>
>Thanks
Re: Controlling kick drum dynamics? [message #89538 is a reply to message #89500] Sun, 09 September 2007 02:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sarah is currently offline  Sarah   UNITED STATES
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2007
Senior Member
Whose birthday? It's my birthday, too, yeah. No, really. Well, yesterday
it was, since it's technically the ninth now. I'm old. And I did spend
money. Heh.

S


"DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _ net> wrote in message
news:46e2f1b8@linux...
> You need an SPL Transient Designer.
>
> http://mercenary.com/spltrde2.html
>
> You need it now.......immediately........pronto!!!
>
> It's your birthday. Spend money.
>
> ;o)
>
>
> "John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:46e29614$1@linux...
>>
>> I'm trying to get my dynamics under control and my kick is causing me the
>> largest problem. My goal is a crest factor of 14 for my overall mix and
>> right now it's more like 20. When I use various compressers / limiters /
>> eqs etc to control the dynamics it is killing the low freq thump. Does
>> anyone
>> have tips on how to control this wild kick drum without hosing up the
>> tone?
>>
>> Thanks
>
>
Re: Controlling kick drum dynamics? [message #89550 is a reply to message #89487] Sun, 09 September 2007 07:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aaron Allen is currently offline  Aaron Allen   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
Senior Member
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Yup. Not exactly what you're asking, but it's related.=20
Evans EMAD heads.
Very smooth and evenly balanced kick heads, if you have not tried it =
you're really missing out.=20

I use a hard plastic beater, because I'm a progressive kinda dude. =
However, if you're getting too much 'tick' you will want to go felt. =
Pearl makes a killer beater with 4 heads on it of varying =
shapes/materials and a counterweight.=20

More directly: Most likely if you're trying to dip the dynamics that =
much you would have luck using something like a multiband compressor, or =
a sample with a varied velocity curve.

AA

"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:46e29614$1@linux...
>=20
> I'm trying to get my dynamics under control and my kick is causing me =
the
> largest problem. My goal is a crest factor of 14 for my overall mix =
and
> right now it's more like 20. When I use various compressers / =
limiters /
> eqs etc to control the dynamics it is killing the low freq thump. =
Does anyone
> have tips on how to control this wild kick drum without hosing up the =
tone?
>=20
> Thanks
------=_NextPart_000_0167_01C7F2C7.EECD15A0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16525" name=3DGENERATOR>
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<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yup. Not exactly what you're asking, =
but it's=20
related. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><EM>Evans EMAD heads.</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Very smooth and evenly balanced kick =
heads, if you=20
have not tried it you're really missing out. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I use a hard plastic beater, because =
I'm a=20
progressive kinda dude. However, if you're getting too much 'tick' you =
will want=20
to go felt. Pearl makes a killer beater with 4 heads on it of varying=20
shapes/materials and a counterweight. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>More directly: Most likely if you're =
trying to dip=20
the dynamics that much you would have luck using something like a =
multiband=20
compressor, or a sample with a varied velocity curve.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>AA<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"John" &lt;</FONT><A =
href=3D"mailto:no@no.com"><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>no@no.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>&gt; wrote in=20
message </FONT><A href=3D"news:46e29614$1@linux"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>news:46e29614$1@linux</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'm =
trying to get=20
my dynamics under control and my kick is causing me the<BR>&gt; largest=20
problem.&nbsp; My goal is a crest factor of 14 for my overall mix =
and<BR>&gt;=20
right now it's more like 20.&nbsp; When I use various compressers / =
limiters=20
/<BR>&gt; eqs etc to control the dynamics it is killing the low freq=20
thump.&nbsp; Does anyone<BR>&gt; have tips on how to control this wild =
kick drum=20
without hosing up the tone?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Thanks</FONT></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0167_01C7F2C7.EECD15A0--
Re: Controlling kick drum dynamics? [message #89551 is a reply to message #89525] Sun, 09 September 2007 08:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neil is currently offline  Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
Senior Member
Hey John - since you're specifically asking about dynamics,
I'm going to point you to a few comp/limiter options that I like
very much for kick & have found each one useful, depending on
the circumstances. Aaaaaand, the best part is they're all free.

:)

1.) Buzz Maxi - this is a simple two-knob Limiter, very
transparent & can mash your sound pretty hard, or just give it
a litle kiss, depending on where you set the threshhold.

http://www5c.biglobe.ne.jp/~buzzroom/files/BuzMaxi3_130.zip

2.) Buzzroom GeneComp3 or GranComp3 Multiband compressors -
From the same guy as the Buzz Maxi, above, the link gives you a
whole package of compressors actually, (stereo & mono, both
single & Multiband versions of the Grancomp & Genecomp). Try
the Grancomp Multiband on kick, & drop down the center band's
output somewhat (or a lot, dpenending on the tone you're looking
for) - use the band cutoff controls to carve out the tonal
qualities you want. These all come with a number of handy
presets, too; there IS one for kick on one of 'em - that might
give you a good starting point. FYI I really like the
grancomp singleband version for rock guitar & bass, as well.
Here's the link...

http://www5c.biglobe.ne.jp/~buzzroom/files/buzcompfree_v12.z ip


3.) The SSL LMC-1 - This one has a REALLY unique sound and
you'll probbaly know right away if it's gonna work or not for
the song.
Start out with the compression control turned all the way to
the "Less" side & don't drive it very hard at first; it can
dirty-up real quick. Link Below...

http://www.solid-state-logic.com/resources/lmc1plugin.html


4.) You have SX3, right? If so, on the CD there's a folder of
extra plugins - I forget what it's called, but browse around
& you'll find it. Most of 'em are total crap, IMO, but there
is ONE very useful one... it's called, simply "Multiband
Compressor" - copy that .dll file over to where your dynamics
plugins reside & launch SX & you'll see it. Try the Kick preset,
but don't be afraid to move the band levels around.
To quote Borat: "That's a verry niiiice." :)

Neil


"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameriech.net> wrote:
>
>John, you a couple of options..
>
>-Compress..EQ..hard work,,but works
>
>-Use Transien Plugin like waves Transient plus..Nice http://www.waves.com/Content.aspx?id=286
>
>-Voxengo (2 plugins) LowF Punch and Tranmodder http://www.voxengo.com/product/lfpunch/
>www.voxengo.com/product/tmodder/
>
>LAstly and my Fav option: Use drummgog..Locate a the good Bass drum sample..
>Boom..Job done.. :)
>
>
>
>"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>
>>I'm trying to get my dynamics under control and my kick is causing me the
>>largest problem. My goal is a crest factor of 14 for my overall mix and
>>right now it's more like 20. When I use various compressers / limiters
>/
>>eqs etc to control the dynamics it is killing the low freq thump. Does
>anyone
>>have tips on how to control this wild kick drum without hosing up the tone?
>>
>>Thanks
>
Re: Controlling kick drum dynamics? [message #89564 is a reply to message #89538] Sun, 09 September 2007 15:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DJ is currently offline  DJ   FRANCE
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
Senior Member
Well happy birthday Sarah. I hope you spent it on gear.

;o)

"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote in message news:46e3bf6b$1@linux...
> Whose birthday? It's my birthday, too, yeah. No, really. Well,
> yesterday it was, since it's technically the ninth now. I'm old. And I
> did spend money. Heh.
>
> S
>
>
> "DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _ net> wrote in message
> news:46e2f1b8@linux...
>> You need an SPL Transient Designer.
>>
>> http://mercenary.com/spltrde2.html
>>
>> You need it now.......immediately........pronto!!!
>>
>> It's your birthday. Spend money.
>>
>> ;o)
>>
>>
>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:46e29614$1@linux...
>>>
>>> I'm trying to get my dynamics under control and my kick is causing me
>>> the
>>> largest problem. My goal is a crest factor of 14 for my overall mix and
>>> right now it's more like 20. When I use various compressers / limiters
>>> /
>>> eqs etc to control the dynamics it is killing the low freq thump. Does
>>> anyone
>>> have tips on how to control this wild kick drum without hosing up the
>>> tone?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>
>>
>
>
Re: Controlling kick drum dynamics? [message #89611 is a reply to message #89525] Tue, 11 September 2007 08:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TCB is currently offline  TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
Senior Member
SX 4 has a transient designer type plug-in but I haven't had a chance to check
it out yet. I will say this, for the money the voxengo stuff is usually spectacular.


TCB

"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameriech.net> wrote:
>
>John, you a couple of options..
>
>-Compress..EQ..hard work,,but works
>
>-Use Transien Plugin like waves Transient plus..Nice http://www.waves.com/Content.aspx?id=286
>
>-Voxengo (2 plugins) LowF Punch and Tranmodder http://www.voxengo.com/product/lfpunch/
>www.voxengo.com/product/tmodder/
>
>LAstly and my Fav option: Use drummgog..Locate a the good Bass drum sample..
>Boom..Job done.. :)
>
>
>
>"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>
>>I'm trying to get my dynamics under control and my kick is causing me the
>>largest problem. My goal is a crest factor of 14 for my overall mix and
>>right now it's more like 20. When I use various compressers / limiters
>/
>>eqs etc to control the dynamics it is killing the low freq thump. Does
>anyone
>>have tips on how to control this wild kick drum without hosing up the tone?
>>
>>Thanks
>
Re: Controlling kick drum dynamics? [message #89619 is a reply to message #89551] Tue, 11 September 2007 19:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neil is currently offline  Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
Senior Member
John, did u get a chance to try any of these yet? If so, how'd
it work out? Personally for reggae, if you like the tone you're
getting, I'd prolly try the BuzzMaxi first - not gonna whallop
the shit out of your tone & change it at all, just control the
dynamics really well.

Neil


"Neil" <OIU@OIUOIU.com> wrote:
>
>Hey John - since you're specifically asking about dynamics,
>I'm going to point you to a few comp/limiter options that I like
>very much for kick & have found each one useful, depending on
>the circumstances. Aaaaaand, the best part is they're all free.
>
>:)
>
>1.) Buzz Maxi - this is a simple two-knob Limiter, very
>transparent & can mash your sound pretty hard, or just give it
>a litle kiss, depending on where you set the threshhold.
>
>http://www5c.biglobe.ne.jp/~buzzroom/files/BuzMaxi3_130.zip
>
>2.) Buzzroom GeneComp3 or GranComp3 Multiband compressors -
>From the same guy as the Buzz Maxi, above, the link gives you a
>whole package of compressors actually, (stereo & mono, both
>single & Multiband versions of the Grancomp & Genecomp). Try
>the Grancomp Multiband on kick, & drop down the center band's
>output somewhat (or a lot, dpenending on the tone you're looking
>for) - use the band cutoff controls to carve out the tonal
>qualities you want. These all come with a number of handy
>presets, too; there IS one for kick on one of 'em - that might
>give you a good starting point. FYI I really like the
>grancomp singleband version for rock guitar & bass, as well.
>Here's the link...
>
> http://www5c.biglobe.ne.jp/~buzzroom/files/buzcompfree_v12.z ip
>
>
>3.) The SSL LMC-1 - This one has a REALLY unique sound and
>you'll probbaly know right away if it's gonna work or not for
>the song.
>Start out with the compression control turned all the way to
>the "Less" side & don't drive it very hard at first; it can
>dirty-up real quick. Link Below...
>
> http://www.solid-state-logic.com/resources/lmc1plugin.html
>
>
>4.) You have SX3, right? If so, on the CD there's a folder of
>extra plugins - I forget what it's called, but browse around
>& you'll find it. Most of 'em are total crap, IMO, but there
>is ONE very useful one... it's called, simply "Multiband
>Compressor" - copy that .dll file over to where your dynamics
>plugins reside & launch SX & you'll see it. Try the Kick preset,
>but don't be afraid to move the band levels around.
>To quote Borat: "That's a verry niiiice." :)
>
>Neil
>
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameriech.net> wrote:
>>
>>John, you a couple of options..
>>
>>-Compress..EQ..hard work,,but works
>>
>>-Use Transien Plugin like waves Transient plus..Nice http://www.waves.com/Content.aspx?id=286
>>
>>-Voxengo (2 plugins) LowF Punch and Tranmodder http://www.voxengo.com/product/lfpunch/
>>www.voxengo.com/product/tmodder/
>>
>>LAstly and my Fav option: Use drummgog..Locate a the good Bass drum sample..
>>Boom..Job done.. :)
>>
>>
>>
>>"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>I'm trying to get my dynamics under control and my kick is causing me
the
>>>largest problem. My goal is a crest factor of 14 for my overall mix and
>>>right now it's more like 20. When I use various compressers / limiters
>>/
>>>eqs etc to control the dynamics it is killing the low freq thump. Does
>>anyone
>>>have tips on how to control this wild kick drum without hosing up the
tone?
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>
>
Re: Controlling kick drum dynamics? [message #89634 is a reply to message #89611] Tue, 11 September 2007 20:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neil is currently offline  Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
Senior Member
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>SX 4 has a transient designer type plug-in but I haven't had a chance to
check
>it out yet. I will say this, for the money the voxengo stuff is usually
spectacular.

I agree, and the only negative thing I can say about the
Voxengo Transient thang (Transmodder)is that it really can't be
used on cymbals, IMO - not if you're running all the drums
including the OH's through a subgroup, anyway. Although if you
want to run all the drums through a submix group EXCEPT for
cymbals, and THEN insert the Transmodder over that... Yummmm!
lol

Can't really use it on the 2-buss, either, since obviously
cymbals have to run through that as well. If anyone's found a
Transmodder setting that DOES work on the 2-buss lemme know!

Thadster, let us know when you have a chance to check out the
C4 TransDesigner! Is it also an application that can be
obtained sparately from somewhere, do you know?

Neil
Re: Controlling kick drum dynamics? [message #89666 is a reply to message #89619] Wed, 12 September 2007 04:45 Go to previous message
John [1] is currently offline  John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
Senior Member
I cheated and used Drumagog. That app is so sweet. I think I'm in love but
playing with Darkuba and Latigo was even more fun.
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