Home » The Bin » Lester The Nightfly » I hate winter...
Re: I hate winter... [message #95231 is a reply to message #95222] |
Tue, 29 January 2008 18:34 |
chuck duffy
Messages: 453 Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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So does this evidence mean that .........
Chuck
Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>rick wrote:
>> this is a mac vs pc thing in disguise isn't it? ;o) thank god for
>> global dimming...
>
>Heh. Mac vs. PC is more benign.
>
>Here's a paper on the relationship between global dimming and greenhouse
>warming: http://www.iac.ethz.ch/people/wild/2006GL028031.pdf
>
> From the summary:
>"In the present study we investigated the role of solar dimming and
>brightening in the context of recent global warming. Our analysis showed
>that the decadal changes of land mean surface temperature as well as
>TMAX, TMIN, and DTR are in line with the proposed transition in surface
>solar radiation from dimming to brightening during the 1980s and with
>the increasing greenhouse effect. This suggests that solar dimming,
>possibly favoured by increasing air pollution, was effective in masking
>greenhouse warming up to the 1980s, but not thereafter, when the dimming
>disappeared and atmospheres started to clear up.
>
>The temperature response since the mid-1980s may therefore be a more
>genuine reflection of the greenhouse effect than during the decades
>before, which were subject to solar dimming. Unlike to the decades prior
>to the 1980s, the recent rapid temperature rise therefore no longer
>underrates the response of the climate system to greenhouse forcing and
>reflects the full magnitude of the greenhouse effect."
>
>More discussion here:
> http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/11/global -dimming-and-global-warming/
>
>Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>
>> On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:51:55 -0700, Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> James McCloskey wrote:
>>>> Yep, those scientist don't know what they are talking about,
>>> If you're looking for the opinion of scientists, here's a start:
>>>
>>> From the American Physical Society
>>> http://www.aps.org/policy/statements/07_1.cfm
>>> "Emissions of greenhouse gases from human activities are changing the
>>> atmosphere in ways that affect the Earth's climate. Greenhouse gases
>>> include carbon dioxide as well as methane, nitrous oxide and other
>>> gases. They are emitted from fossil fuel combustion and a range of
>>> industrial and agricultural processes.
>>>
>>> The evidence is incontrovertible: Global warming is occurring. If no
>>> mitigating actions are taken, significant disruptions in the Earth’s
>>> physical and ecological systems, social systems, security and human
>>> health are likely to occur. We must reduce emissions of greenhouse gases
>>> beginning now."
>>>
>>>
>>> From the National Academy of Sciences
>>> http://nationalacademies.org/onpi/06072005.pdf
>>> "Climate change is real:
>>> There will always be uncertainty in understanding a system as complex
as
>>> the world’s climate. However there is now strong evidence that
>>> significant global warming is occurring1. The evidence comes from direct
>>> measurements of rising surface air temperatures and subsurface ocean
>>> temperatures and from phenomena such as increases in average global sea
>>> levels, retreating glaciers, and changes to many physical and biological
>>> systems. It is likely that most of the warming in recent decades can
be
>>> attributed to human activities (IPCC 2001)2. This warming has already
>>> led to changes in the Earth's climate.
>>>
>>> The existence of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere is vital to life
on
>>> Earth – in their absence average temperatures would be about 30
>>> centigrade degrees lower than they are today. But human activities are
>>> now causing atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases – including
>>> carbon dioxide, methane, tropospheric ozone, and nitrous oxide – to rise
>>> well above pre-industrial levels. Carbon dioxide levels have increased
>>>from 280 ppm in 1750 to over 375 ppm today – higher than any previous
>>> levels that can be reliably measured (i.e. in the last 420,000 years).
>>> Increasing greenhouse gases are causing
>>> temperatures to rise; the Earth’s surface warmed by approximately 0.6
>>> centigrade degrees over the twentieth century. The Intergovernmental
>>> Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) projected that the average global surface
>>> temperatures will continue to increase to between 1.4 centigrade degrees
>>> and 5.8 centigrade degrees above 1990 levels, by 2100."
>>>
>>>
>>> From the American Geophysical Union
>>> http://www.agu.org/sci_soc/policy/positions/climate_change20 08.shtml
>>> "Human Impacts on Climate:
>>> The Earth's climate is now clearly out of balance and is warming. Many
>>> components of the climate system—including the temperatures of the
>>> atmosphere, land and ocean, the extent of sea ice and mountain glaciers,
>>> the sea level, the distribution of precipitation, and the length of
>>> seasons—are now changing at rates and in patterns that are not natural
>>> and are best explained by the increased atmospheric abundances of
>>> greenhouse gases and aerosols generated by human activity during the
>>> 20th century. Global average surface temperatures increased on average
>>> by about 0.6°C over the period 1956–2006. As of 2006, eleven of the
>>> previous twelve years were warmer than any others since 1850. The
>>> observed rapid retreat of Arctic sea ice is expected to continue and
>>> lead to the disappearance of summertime ice within this century.
>>> Evidence from most oceans and all continents except Antarctica shows
>>> warming attributable to human activities. Recent changes in many
>>> physical and biological systems are linked with this regional climate
>>> change. A sustained research effort, involving many AGU members and
>>> summarized in the 2007 assessments of the Intergovernmental Panel on
>>> Climate Change, continues to improve our scientific understanding of
the
>>> climate.
>>>
>>> During recent millennia of relatively stable climate, civilization
>>> became established and populations have grown rapidly. In the next 50
>>> years, even the lower limit of impending climate change—an additional
>>> global mean warming of 1°C above the last decade—is far beyond the range
>>> of climate variability experienced during the past thousand years and
>>> poses global problems in planning for and adapting to it. Warming
>>> greater than 2°C above 19th century levels is projected to be
>>> disruptive, reducing global agricultural productivity, causing
>>> widespread loss of biodiversity, and—if sustained over centuries—melting
>>> much of the Greenland ice sheet with ensuing rise in sea level of
>>> several meters. If this 2°C warming is to be avoided, then our net
>>> annual emissions of CO2 must be reduced by more than 50 percent within
>>> this century. With such projections, there are many sources of
>>> scientific uncertainty, but none are known that could make the impact
of
>>> climate change inconsequential. Given the uncertainty in climate
>>> projections, there can be surprises that may cause more dramatic
>>> disruptions than anticipated from the most probable model projections.
>>>
>>> With climate change, as with ozone depletion, the human footprint on
>>> Earth is apparent. The cause of disruptive climate change, unlike ozone
>>> depletion, is tied to energy use and runs through modern society.
>>> Solutions will necessarily involve all aspects of society. Mitigation
>>> strategies and adaptation responses will call for collaborations across
>>> science, technology, industry, and government. Members of the AGU, as
>>> part of the scientific community, collectively have special
>>> responsibilities: to pursue research needed to understand it; to educate
>>> the public on the causes, risks, and hazards; and to communicate clearly
>>> and objectively with those who can implement policies to shape future
>>> climate."
>>>
>>>
>>> From The Geological Society of America
>>> http://www.geosociety.org/positions/position10.htm
>>> "The Geological Society of America (GSA) supports the scientific
>>> conclusions that Earth’s climate is changing; the climate changes are
>>> due in part to human activities; and the probable consequences of the
>>> climate changes will be significant and blind to geopolitical
>>> boundaries. Furthermore, the potential implications of global climate
>>> change and the time scale over which such changes will likely occur
>>> require active, effective, long-term planning. GSA also supports
>>> statements on the global climate change issue made by the joint national
>>> academies of science (June 2005), American Geophysical Union (December,
>>> 2003), and American Chemical Society (2004). GSA strongly encourages
>>> that the following efforts be undertaken internationally: (1) adequately
>>> research climate change at all time scales, (2) develop thoughtful,
>>> science-based policy appropriate for the multifaceted issues of global
>>> climate change, (3) organize global planning to recognize, prepare for,
>>> and adapt to the causes and consequences of global climate change, and
>>> (4) organize and develop comprehensive, long-term strategies for
>>> sustainable energy, particularly focused on minimizing impacts on global
>>> climate."
>>>
>>>
>>> From the American Meteorological Society
>>> http://www.ametsoc.org/POLICY/2007climatechange.html
>>> "Why is climate changing?
>>> Climate has changed throughout geological history, for many natural
>>> reasons such as changes in the sun’s energy received by Earth arising
>>>from slow orbital changes, or changes in the sun’s energy reaching
>>> Earth’s surface due to volcanic eruptions. In recent decades, humans
>>> have increasingly affected local, regional, and global climate by
>>> altering the flows of radiative energy and water through the Earth
>>> system (resulting in changes in temperature, winds, rainfall, etc.),
>>> which comprises the atmosphere, land surface, vegetation, ocean, land
>>> ice, and sea ice. Indeed, strong observational evidence and results from
>>> modeling studies indicate that, at least over the last 50 years, human
>>> activities are a major contributor to climate change.
>>>
>>> Direct human impact is through changes in the concentration of certain
>>> trace gases such as carbon dioxide, chlorofluorocarbons, methane,
>>> nitrous oxide, ozone, and water vapor, known collectively as greenhouse
>>> gases. Enhanced greenhouse gases have little effect on the incoming
>>> energy of the sun, but they act as a blanket to reduce the outgoing
>>> infrared radiation emitted by Earth and its atmosphere; the surface and
>>> atmosphere therefore warm so as to increase the outgoing energy until
>>> the outgoing and incoming flows of energy are equal. Carbon dioxide
>>> accounts for about half of the human-induced greenhouse gas contribution
>>> to warming since the late 1800s, with increases in the other greenhouse
>>> gases accounting for the rest; changes in solar output may have provided
>>> an augmentation to warming in the first half of the 20th century.
>>>
>>> Carbon dioxide concentration is rising mostly as a result of fossil-fuel
>>> burning and partly from clearing of vegetation; about 50% of the
>>> enhanced emissions remain in the atmosphere, while the rest of the Earth
>>> system continues to absorb the remaining 50%. In the last 50 years
>>> atmospheric CO2 concentration has been increasing at a rate much faster
>>> than any rates observed in the geological record of the past several
>>> thousand years. Global annual-mean surface temperatures are rising at
a
>>> rapid rate to values higher than at any time in the last 400 (and
>>> probably in the last 1000) years. Once introduced in the atmosphere,
>>> carbon dioxide remains for at least a few hundred years and implies a
>>> lengthy guarantee of sustained future warming. Further, increases in
>>> greenhouse gases are nearly certain to produce continued increases in
>>> temperature. Such changes in temperature lead to changes in clouds,
>>> pressure, winds, and rainfall in a complex sequence of further effects."
>>>
>>>
>>> Al Gore does,
>>>> after all he invented the internet.
>>> Here's what snopes has to say about that:
>>>
>>> http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp
>>> "Despite the derisive references that continue even today, Al Gore did
>>> not claim he "invented" the Internet, nor did he say anything that could
>>> reasonably be interpreted that way. The "Al Gore said he 'invented' the
>>> Internet" put-downs were misleading, out-of-context distortions of
>>> something he said during an interview with Wolf Blitzer on CNN's "Late
>>> Edition" program on 9 March 1999."
>>>
>>>
>>> Besides, Al Gore is not the point, he's just one guy. Love him or hate
>>> him, the climate will do what it does with or without him. It's best
to
>>> look to the actual science.
>>>
>>>
>>> Nothing like trying to shift the wealth
>>>> of the world and making money doing it by selling global offsets and
taxing
>>>> the shit out of stupid people with a lie!
>>> That the climate is currently changing is not a lie, it's a measurable
>>> phenomenon we are currently experiencing on our planet.
>>>
>>> A lot of evidence points to human contributions to the current climate
>>> change event. So again, this is not a lie.
>>>
>>> Your problem is with politics and economics, not with science. Blaming
>>> the science does not help your cause. You have political and economic
>>> objections to some of the proposed solutions, so by all means take them
>>> on. If you don't like using a market mechanism to regulate carbon
>>> emissions, which is just one idea that's been proposed, there are other
>>> options on the table.
>>>
>>> Do your best to move the solutions conversation in a direction you're
>>> more comfortable with. But simple blanket denial of actual evidence and
>>> peer reviewed science won't get you there.
>>>
>>>
>>>> The Bush's, the Clinton's, and
>>>> the Gore's are all Trilateralists, they have done a fine job of lowering
>>>> the standard of living here in the USA! Long live the CFR, the world
banks
>>>> and man made Global warming.
>>> You can believe what you like about all that, except that there is
>>> actual evidence supporting human contributions to the current climate
>>> change event. Again, ignoring evidence won't get you very far.
>>>
>>>
>>>> By the way, if you buy the man made global warming lie, I got some swamp
>>>> land I'd like to sell you!
>>> You're being sold swamp land already, possibly by the fossil fuels
>>> industry, and by people who want to maintain power and income.
>>>
>>> http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/denialmachine/index.html
>>> "The Denial Machine investigates the roots of the campaign to negate
the
>>> science and the threat of global warming. It tracks the activities of
a
>>> group of scientists, some of whom previously consulted for Big Tobacco,
>>> and who are now receiving donations from major coal and oil companies."
>>>
>>> http://www.exxonsecrets.org/
>>> "The database compiles Exxon Foundation and corporate funding to a
>>> series of institutions who have worked to undermine solutions to global
>>> warming and climate change. It details the working relationships of
>>> individuals associated with these organizations and their global warming
>>> quotes and deeds."
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> -Jamie
>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>> Rich Lamanna wrote:
>>>>>> Must be global warming. Anyone seen this? If you've got an hour check
>>>> it
>>>>>> out. It may take a minute or two to load.
>>>>> Yep, the swindle movie is old news, we even discussed it here.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I mentioned at the time, it ignores the main body of peer-reviewed
>>>>> scientific evidence for the sake of sensationalism. It was done that
way
>>>>> deliberately by the producers, with no attempt at an objective look
at
>>>>> the actual scientific evidence. Fair and balanced it ain't.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do like the breathless announcer, fast cuts and dramatic music. It's
>>>>> always fun to see a one-sided polemic that ironically accuses others
of
>>>>> being one-sided. I doubt anyone here is gullible enough to take it
as an
>>>>> objective authority.
>>>>>
>>>>> But anyway, here's more (follow the links):
>>>>>
>>>>> From:
>>>>> http://climatedenial.org/2007/05/01/why-was-the-great-global -warming-swindle-so-persuasive/
>>>>> "The fans of the film would argue that it has been effective because
it
>>>>> is true. But truth is not, of itself, persuasive. When we receive new
>>>>> information on a topic we have no idea whether it is true or not. We
>>>>> base our conclusions on how it was presented to us, whether it concurs
>>>>> with what we already know about that topic, how far we trust the person
>>>>> telling us, and how well that information fits inside our world view.
We
>>>>> then seek to match our initial conclusions against the conclusions
of
>>>>> our peers. So, although we think we seek truth, the process by which
we
>>>>> reach opinions is equally capable of leading us in the wrong direction.
>>>>> It turns out that Swindle was a collection of rather crude distortions
>>>>> in an elegant package. We now know that the data was misrepresented,
the
>>>>> charts re-arranged, and the interviews edited in ways that were designed
>>>>> to mislead."
>>>>>
>>>>> From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindl e
>>>>> "Although the documentary was welcomed by global warming sceptics,
it
>>>>> was criticised heavily by many scientific organisations and individual
>>>>> scientists (including two of the film's contributors[3][4]). The film's
>>>>> critics argued that it had misused data, relied on out-of-date research,
>>>>> employed misleading arguments, and misrepresented the position of the
>>>>> Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change."
>>>>>
>>>>> From: http://www.climateofdenial.net/?q=node/7
>>>>> "The DVD version of ‘The Great Global Warming Swindle’ has been
>>>>> available for purchase since late July 2007. The front of the
>>>>> presentation case describes it as a “documentary”, which is defined
by
>>>>> the Oxford English Dictionary as “a film or television or radio
>>>>> programme giving a factual account of something, using film,
>>>>> photographs, and sound recordings of real events”. However, the DVD
>>>>> contains at least five major misrepresentations of the scientific
>>>>> evidence and researchers’ views on climate change. This document
>>>>> presents details of the five misrepresentations."
>>>>>
>>>>> From http://www.medialens.org/alerts/07/0313pure_propaganda_the.p hp
>>>>> "What we now have is an out-and-out propaganda piece, in which there
is
>>>>> not even a gesture toward balance or explanation of why many of the
>>>>> extended inferences drawn in the film are not widely accepted by the
>>>>> scientific community. There are so many examples, it's hard to know
>>>>> where to begin, so I will cite only one: a speaker asserts, as is true,
>>>>> that carbon dioxide is only a small fraction of the atmospheric mass.
>>>>> The viewer is left to infer that means it couldn't really matter. But
>>>>> even a beginning meteorology student could tell you that the relative
>>>>> masses of gases are irrelevant to their effects on radiative balance.
A
>>>>> director not intending to produce pure propaganda would have tried
to
>>>>> eliminate that piece of disinformation.” (http://ocean.mit.edu/~cwunsch/
>>>>> papersonline/channel4response)"
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rich Lamanna wrote:
>>>>>> Must be global warming. Anyone seen this? If you've got an hour check
>>>> it
>>>>>> out. It may take a minute or two to load.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://en.sevenload.com/videos/ha4PoKY/The-Great-Global-Warm ing-Swindle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rich
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "EK Sound" <ask_me@nospam.net> wrote in message news:479e36ad$1@linux...
>>>>>>> Woke up this morning and the temp with wind chill was -59C >:(
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why did I move here again???
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David.
>>
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I hate winter...
By: EK Sound on Mon, 28 January 2008 11:55
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 13:27
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Bill L on Mon, 28 January 2008 12:30
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 14:02
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Mon, 28 January 2008 14:38
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 22:48
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 22:50
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 22:53
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Neil on Mon, 28 January 2008 22:59
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 21:56
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Mon, 28 January 2008 23:49
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 20:04
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Mon, 28 January 2008 23:39
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Re: I hate winter...
By: excelav on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:03
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Tue, 29 January 2008 09:51
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:36
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Tue, 29 January 2008 11:16
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Tue, 29 January 2008 22:03
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I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Deej [5] on Thu, 31 January 2008 15:26
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: dc[3] on Thu, 31 January 2008 17:35
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Jamie K on Thu, 31 January 2008 17:10
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Deej [5] on Fri, 01 February 2008 10:40
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Jamie K on Fri, 01 February 2008 13:57
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: excelav on Fri, 01 February 2008 11:55
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Jamie K on Fri, 01 February 2008 13:53
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: excelav on Fri, 01 February 2008 20:31
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Jamie K on Fri, 01 February 2008 23:10
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Kim on Thu, 31 January 2008 19:31
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: dc[3] on Thu, 31 January 2008 23:08
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Wed, 30 January 2008 02:03
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:38
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:48
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Wed, 30 January 2008 01:41
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Don Nafe on Tue, 29 January 2008 05:31
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Re: I hate winter...
By: EK Sound on Tue, 29 January 2008 07:45
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:41
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Sarah on Tue, 29 January 2008 05:50
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:42
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Sarah on Wed, 30 January 2008 14:56
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Thu, 31 January 2008 02:28
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Re: I hate winter...
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