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| Re: China [message #96910 is a reply to message #96901] |
Sun, 16 March 2008 16:02   |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
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Senior Member |
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The Tibetans have tried to talk about freedom, they were burned to death.
I guess freedom always comes at a price. The Chinese people must have the
will to change their government from the inside, talk from us won't work,
but we can do something and that is boycott their products. We as a people
are going in to debt with China, we are handing them power over us. Meanwhile
our standard of living is going down hill. It's great that you can buy a
two dollar rubber hammer from China and we'll pay four dollars a gallon of
gas because China is using so much oil to make things like rubber hammers
and ship them across the sea.
They are killing their own people. We are empowering them financially by
buying there products and handing them technical expertise. We embolden
them by not standing up to them on human rights and the theft of our defense
and military secrets, not to mention their constant opposition the the US
and their interference in world matters.
China has publicly announced a 35 year plan to take over the world. The
Chinese and the Russians are building super weapons to defeat the US, and
they are currently doing military exercises together right now. They are
supporting and supplying the weapons and technology that is causing the US
problems around the world, this is to weaken us. They have their plans for
us.
We shouldn't hand them the wealth and the power by buying their products,
let them sit on the shelves. One way to turn the tide is for americans to
vote with their dollars. We don't need to support a repressive communist
government with american dollars, and that is exactly what we are doing by
buying Chinese products. A boycott is long over due!
Talking has never worked with communist governments.
Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>I don't think boycotting is the answer. It would hurt average Chinese
>people the most, anyway.
>
>The answer is more communication. Commerce is a form of communication
>and as such, I think more commerce will inevitably bring about a
>metamorphose of the Chinese government. I would prefer to see a peaceful
>evolution rather than a bloody revolution.
>
>Boycotting would get the government hardliners backs up. And
>realistically, your boycott wouldn't "...amount to a hill of beans in
>this world." (add Bogart lisp)
>
>I appreciate your desire to change the situation, but I would suggest
>finding a constructive way to communicate a lot into China, to people,
>the government, anywhere. Comm is the solution. Tell them about freedom.
>Freedom appeals to everybody.
>
>James McCloskey wrote:
>> I think it's time to boycott China and their products, there is no sense
in
>> supporting this government in any way.
>>
>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080316/D8VELU0G0.html
>>
>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080316/D8VEM3KG0.html
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| Re: China [message #96950 is a reply to message #96910] |
Sun, 16 March 2008 23:37 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
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Senior Member |
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So James, does your concern for political oppression and the sanctity of civilian
life extend to Iraq and Afghanistan? Or is it only when China kills civilians
that it matters? How about Gaza? Should we boycott Israeli software? What
about Burma? They're right and true bastards and the Chinese stick up for
them or they wouldn't get away with it quite as easily.
It's a long list, and the US does business with most of them,
TCB
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>The Tibetans have tried to talk about freedom, they were burned to death.
> I guess freedom always comes at a price. The Chinese people must have
the
>will to change their government from the inside, talk from us won't work,
>but we can do something and that is boycott their products. We as a people
>are going in to debt with China, we are handing them power over us. Meanwhile
>our standard of living is going down hill. It's great that you can buy
a
>two dollar rubber hammer from China and we'll pay four dollars a gallon
of
>gas because China is using so much oil to make things like rubber hammers
>and ship them across the sea.
>
>They are killing their own people. We are empowering them financially by
>buying there products and handing them technical expertise. We embolden
>them by not standing up to them on human rights and the theft of our defense
>and military secrets, not to mention their constant opposition the the US
>and their interference in world matters.
>
>China has publicly announced a 35 year plan to take over the world. The
>Chinese and the Russians are building super weapons to defeat the US, and
>they are currently doing military exercises together right now. They are
>supporting and supplying the weapons and technology that is causing the
US
>problems around the world, this is to weaken us. They have their plans
for
>us.
>
>We shouldn't hand them the wealth and the power by buying their products,
>let them sit on the shelves. One way to turn the tide is for americans
to
>vote with their dollars. We don't need to support a repressive communist
>government with american dollars, and that is exactly what we are doing
by
>buying Chinese products. A boycott is long over due!
>
>Talking has never worked with communist governments.
>
>Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>>I don't think boycotting is the answer. It would hurt average Chinese
>>people the most, anyway.
>>
>>The answer is more communication. Commerce is a form of communication
>>and as such, I think more commerce will inevitably bring about a
>>metamorphose of the Chinese government. I would prefer to see a peaceful
>
>>evolution rather than a bloody revolution.
>>
>>Boycotting would get the government hardliners backs up. And
>>realistically, your boycott wouldn't "...amount to a hill of beans in
>>this world." (add Bogart lisp)
>>
>>I appreciate your desire to change the situation, but I would suggest
>>finding a constructive way to communicate a lot into China, to people,
>>the government, anywhere. Comm is the solution. Tell them about freedom.
>
>>Freedom appeals to everybody.
>>
>>James McCloskey wrote:
>>> I think it's time to boycott China and their products, there is no sense
>in
>>> supporting this government in any way.
>>>
>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080316/D8VELU0G0.html
>>>
>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080316/D8VEM3KG0.html
>
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| Re: China [message #96952 is a reply to message #96950] |
Sun, 16 March 2008 22:59 |
JeffH
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2007
Location: Wamic, OR
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Senior Member |
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TCB wrote:
> So James, does your concern for political oppression and the sanctity of civilian
> life extend to Iraq and Afghanistan? Or is it only when China kills civilians
> that it matters?
How about Gaza? Should we boycott Israeli software?
Thad,
I'm a little confused. Is Tibet hurling rockets at civilian targets in
China, or is this parallel not so...well parallel?
Jeff
What
> about Burma? They're right and true bastards and the Chinese stick up for
> them or they wouldn't get away with it quite as easily.
>
> It's a long list, and the US does business with most of them,
>
> TCB
>
> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>The Tibetans have tried to talk about freedom, they were burned to death.
>>I guess freedom always comes at a price. The Chinese people must have
>
> the
>
>>will to change their government from the inside, talk from us won't work,
>>but we can do something and that is boycott their products. We as a people
>>are going in to debt with China, we are handing them power over us. Meanwhile
>>our standard of living is going down hill. It's great that you can buy
>
> a
>
>>two dollar rubber hammer from China and we'll pay four dollars a gallon
>
> of
>
>>gas because China is using so much oil to make things like rubber hammers
>>and ship them across the sea.
>>
>>They are killing their own people. We are empowering them financially by
>>buying there products and handing them technical expertise. We embolden
>>them by not standing up to them on human rights and the theft of our defense
>>and military secrets, not to mention their constant opposition the the US
>>and their interference in world matters.
>>
>>China has publicly announced a 35 year plan to take over the world. The
>>Chinese and the Russians are building super weapons to defeat the US, and
>>they are currently doing military exercises together right now. They are
>>supporting and supplying the weapons and technology that is causing the
>
> US
>
>>problems around the world, this is to weaken us. They have their plans
>
> for
>
>>us.
>>
>>We shouldn't hand them the wealth and the power by buying their products,
>>let them sit on the shelves. One way to turn the tide is for americans
>
> to
>
>>vote with their dollars. We don't need to support a repressive communist
>>government with american dollars, and that is exactly what we are doing
>
> by
>
>>buying Chinese products. A boycott is long over due!
>>
>>Talking has never worked with communist governments.
>>
>>Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I don't think boycotting is the answer. It would hurt average Chinese
>>>people the most, anyway.
>>>
>>>The answer is more communication. Commerce is a form of communication
>>>and as such, I think more commerce will inevitably bring about a
>>>metamorphose of the Chinese government. I would prefer to see a peaceful
>>
>>>evolution rather than a bloody revolution.
>>>
>>>Boycotting would get the government hardliners backs up. And
>>>realistically, your boycott wouldn't "...amount to a hill of beans in
>>>this world." (add Bogart lisp)
>>>
>>>I appreciate your desire to change the situation, but I would suggest
>>>finding a constructive way to communicate a lot into China, to people,
>
>
>>>the government, anywhere. Comm is the solution. Tell them about freedom.
>>
>>>Freedom appeals to everybody.
>>>
>>>James McCloskey wrote:
>>>
>>>>I think it's time to boycott China and their products, there is no sense
>>
>>in
>>
>>>>supporting this government in any way.
>>>>
>>>>http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080316/D8VELU0G0.html
>>>>
>>>>http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080316/D8VEM3KG0.html
>>
>
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| Re: China [message #96955 is a reply to message #96952] |
Mon, 17 March 2008 00:29 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
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Senior Member |
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China views Tibet as a serious threat to its national safety, rightly or wrongly.
Historically China's primary concern has not been invasion from without but
disintegration from within. So while the Tibetans might not have rockets
they are being mistreated because China views them as a threat to their security,
just like Israel views Gazans as a threat to their security.
I don't think that it's right for rockets to be fired on Israeli citizens.
But you agree that a fair number of those killed and maimed in Gaza are non-rocket-firing
civilians, yes? Are their lives somehow less valuable than the lives of Tibetans?
Or Latvians, or Sudanese, or Burmese? The Burma thing might not get a lot
of ink in the west, but it's pretty front and center here.
My point was only that American moral outrage seems to be applied with a
fair degree of randomness, or maybe a fair degree of self serving intent.
China is a current whipping boy, but I'm old enough to remember when Nicaragua
was the beachhead of the red menace in our hemisphere. It just gets old after
a while. If someone wants to make the world a better place volunteer or donate
to an effective charity, there are plenty of causes that could use some help
without a bunch of boycott nonsense.
TCB
Jeff H <jkhoover@excite.com> wrote:
>TCB wrote:
>> So James, does your concern for political oppression and the sanctity
of civilian
>> life extend to Iraq and Afghanistan? Or is it only when China kills civilians
>> that it matters?
>
>
>How about Gaza? Should we boycott Israeli software?
>
>Thad,
>
>I'm a little confused. Is Tibet hurling rockets at civilian targets in
>China, or is this parallel not so...well parallel?
>
>Jeff
>
>
>What
>> about Burma? They're right and true bastards and the Chinese stick up
for
>> them or they wouldn't get away with it quite as easily.
>>
>> It's a long list, and the US does business with most of them,
>>
>> TCB
>>
>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>The Tibetans have tried to talk about freedom, they were burned to death.
>>>I guess freedom always comes at a price. The Chinese people must have
>>
>> the
>>
>>>will to change their government from the inside, talk from us won't work,
>>>but we can do something and that is boycott their products. We as a people
>>>are going in to debt with China, we are handing them power over us. Meanwhile
>>>our standard of living is going down hill. It's great that you can buy
>>
>> a
>>
>>>two dollar rubber hammer from China and we'll pay four dollars a gallon
>>
>> of
>>
>>>gas because China is using so much oil to make things like rubber hammers
>>>and ship them across the sea.
>>>
>>>They are killing their own people. We are empowering them financially
by
>>>buying there products and handing them technical expertise. We embolden
>>>them by not standing up to them on human rights and the theft of our defense
>>>and military secrets, not to mention their constant opposition the the
US
>>>and their interference in world matters.
>>>
>>>China has publicly announced a 35 year plan to take over the world. The
>>>Chinese and the Russians are building super weapons to defeat the US,
and
>>>they are currently doing military exercises together right now. They
are
>>>supporting and supplying the weapons and technology that is causing the
>>
>> US
>>
>>>problems around the world, this is to weaken us. They have their plans
>>
>> for
>>
>>>us.
>>>
>>>We shouldn't hand them the wealth and the power by buying their products,
>>>let them sit on the shelves. One way to turn the tide is for americans
>>
>> to
>>
>>>vote with their dollars. We don't need to support a repressive communist
>>>government with american dollars, and that is exactly what we are doing
>>
>> by
>>
>>>buying Chinese products. A boycott is long over due!
>>>
>>>Talking has never worked with communist governments.
>>>
>>>Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I don't think boycotting is the answer. It would hurt average Chinese
>>>>people the most, anyway.
>>>>
>>>>The answer is more communication. Commerce is a form of communication
>>>>and as such, I think more commerce will inevitably bring about a
>>>>metamorphose of the Chinese government. I would prefer to see a peaceful
>>>
>>>>evolution rather than a bloody revolution.
>>>>
>>>>Boycotting would get the government hardliners backs up. And
>>>>realistically, your boycott wouldn't "...amount to a hill of beans in
>>>>this world." (add Bogart lisp)
>>>>
>>>>I appreciate your desire to change the situation, but I would suggest
>>>>finding a constructive way to communicate a lot into China, to people,
>>
>>
>>>>the government, anywhere. Comm is the solution. Tell them about freedom.
>>>
>>>>Freedom appeals to everybody.
>>>>
>>>>James McCloskey wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I think it's time to boycott China and their products, there is no sense
>>>
>>>in
>>>
>>>>>supporting this government in any way.
>>>>>
>>>>>http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080316/D8VELU0G0.html
>>>>>
>>>>>http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080316/D8VEM3KG0.html
>>>
>>
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| Re: China [message #96960 is a reply to message #96955] |
Mon, 17 March 2008 00:39 |
JeffH
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2007
Location: Wamic, OR
|
Senior Member |
|
|
TCB wrote:
> China views Tibet as a serious threat to its national safety, rightly or wrongly.
> Historically China's primary concern has not been invasion from without but
> disintegration from within. So while the Tibetans might not have rockets
> they are being mistreated because China views them as a threat to their security,
> just like Israel views Gazans as a threat to their security.
>
You are correct that both view the threat similarly, but I believe we
both would agree Israel has more physical evidence to back their assertion.
> I don't think that it's right for rockets to be fired on Israeli citizens.
> But you agree that a fair number of those killed and maimed in Gaza are non-rocket-firing
> civilians, yes? Are their lives somehow less valuable than the lives of Tibetans?
> Or Latvians, or Sudanese, or Burmese? The Burma thing might not get a lot
> of ink in the west, but it's pretty front and center here.
The lives of those in Gaza are not less valuable, agreed. However, they
are living in an area of active, destructive agression against their
neighbor. It is likely that many of those killed or injured know who
the true perpetrators are. They are unable or unwilling to police their
own territory and are experiencing the result. If they handed the
perpetrators over to Israel or Brought them to justice themselves, it is
likely the Israeli response would be much different.
>
> My point was only that American moral outrage seems to be applied with a
> fair degree of randomness, or maybe a fair degree of self serving intent.
I doubt that would be helped by comparing a large country who is not
experiencing attack on their lands with one who experiencing it on a
nearly daily basis and considering them equally wrong.
> China is a current whipping boy, but I'm old enough to remember when Nicaragua
> was the beachhead of the red menace in our hemisphere. It just gets old after
> a while. If someone wants to make the world a better place volunteer or donate
> to an effective charity, there are plenty of causes that could use some help
> without a bunch of boycott nonsense.
Agreed
JH
>
> TCB
>
> Jeff H <jkhoover@excite.com> wrote:
>
>>TCB wrote:
>>
>>>So James, does your concern for political oppression and the sanctity
>
> of civilian
>
>>>life extend to Iraq and Afghanistan? Or is it only when China kills civilians
>>>that it matters?
>>
>>
>>How about Gaza? Should we boycott Israeli software?
>>
>>Thad,
>>
>>I'm a little confused. Is Tibet hurling rockets at civilian targets in
>
>
>>China, or is this parallel not so...well parallel?
>>
>>Jeff
>>
>>
>>What
>>
>>>about Burma? They're right and true bastards and the Chinese stick up
>
> for
>
>>>them or they wouldn't get away with it quite as easily.
>>>
>>>It's a long list, and the US does business with most of them,
>>>
>>>TCB
>>>
>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>The Tibetans have tried to talk about freedom, they were burned to death.
>>>>I guess freedom always comes at a price. The Chinese people must have
>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>will to change their government from the inside, talk from us won't work,
>>>>but we can do something and that is boycott their products. We as a people
>>>>are going in to debt with China, we are handing them power over us. Meanwhile
>>>>our standard of living is going down hill. It's great that you can buy
>>>
>>>a
>>>
>>>
>>>>two dollar rubber hammer from China and we'll pay four dollars a gallon
>>>
>>>of
>>>
>>>
>>>>gas because China is using so much oil to make things like rubber hammers
>>>>and ship them across the sea.
>>>>
>>>>They are killing their own people. We are empowering them financially
>
> by
>
>>>>buying there products and handing them technical expertise. We embolden
>>>>them by not standing up to them on human rights and the theft of our defense
>>>>and military secrets, not to mention their constant opposition the the
>
> US
>
>>>>and their interference in world matters.
>>>>
>>>>China has publicly announced a 35 year plan to take over the world. The
>>>>Chinese and the Russians are building super weapons to defeat the US,
>
> and
>
>>>>they are currently doing military exercises together right now. They
>
> are
>
>>>>supporting and supplying the weapons and technology that is causing the
>>>
>>>US
>>>
>>>
>>>>problems around the world, this is to weaken us. They have their plans
>>>
>>>for
>>>
>>>
>>>>us.
>>>>
>>>>We shouldn't hand them the wealth and the power by buying their products,
>>>>let them sit on the shelves. One way to turn the tide is for americans
>>>
>>>to
>>>
>>>
>>>>vote with their dollars. We don't need to support a repressive communist
>>>>government with american dollars, and that is exactly what we are doing
>>>
>>>by
>>>
>>>
>>>>buying Chinese products. A boycott is long over due!
>>>>
>>>>Talking has never worked with communist governments.
>>>>
>>>>Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I don't think boycotting is the answer. It would hurt average Chinese
>
>
>>>>>people the most, anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>>The answer is more communication. Commerce is a form of communication
>
>
>>>>>and as such, I think more commerce will inevitably bring about a
>>>>>metamorphose of the Chinese government. I would prefer to see a peaceful
>>>>
>>>>>evolution rather than a bloody revolution.
>>>>>
>>>>>Boycotting would get the government hardliners backs up. And
>>>>>realistically, your boycott wouldn't "...amount to a hill of beans in
>
>
>>>>>this world." (add Bogart lisp)
>>>>>
>>>>>I appreciate your desire to change the situation, but I would suggest
>
>
>>>>>finding a constructive way to communicate a lot into China, to people,
>>>
>>>
>>>>>the government, anywhere. Comm is the solution. Tell them about freedom.
>>>>
>>>>>Freedom appeals to everybody.
>>>>>
>>>>>James McCloskey wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I think it's time to boycott China and their products, there is no sense
>>>>
>>>>in
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>supporting this government in any way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080316/D8VELU0G0.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080316/D8VEM3KG0.html
>>>>
>
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| Re: China [message #96964 is a reply to message #96920] |
Mon, 17 March 2008 01:43 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
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" . . . not to mention asking Americans to boycott anything is like
asking them to voluntarily give up their teeth."
makes me wish my dentist was chinese...
On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 16:41:12 -0700, "Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com>
wrote:
> . . . not to mention asking Americans to boycott anything is like asking
>them to voluntarily give up their teeth. We are completely addicted to
>comfort and convenience and in general would not give up so much as a single
>square of toilet paper to make the world a better place.
>
>Sarah
>Cynical former organizer of product boycotts
>
>"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:47dd8dd0@linux...
>>I don't think boycotting is the answer. It would hurt average Chinese
>>people the most, anyway.
>>
>> The answer is more communication. Commerce is a form of communication and
>> as such, I think more commerce will inevitably bring about a metamorphose
>> of the Chinese government. I would prefer to see a peaceful evolution
>> rather than a bloody revolution.
>>
>> Boycotting would get the government hardliners backs up. And
>> realistically, your boycott wouldn't "...amount to a hill of beans in this
>> world." (add Bogart lisp)
>>
>> I appreciate your desire to change the situation, but I would suggest
>> finding a constructive way to communicate a lot into China, to people, the
>> government, anywhere. Comm is the solution. Tell them about freedom.
>> Freedom appeals to everybody.
>>
>> James McCloskey wrote:
>>> I think it's time to boycott China and their products, there is no sense
>>> in
>>> supporting this government in any way.
>>>
>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080316/D8VELU0G0.html
>>>
>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080316/D8VEM3KG0.html
>
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| Re: China [message #96983 is a reply to message #96920] |
Mon, 17 March 2008 09:27 |
Gary Flanigan
Messages: 181
Registered: June 2006
|
Senior Member |
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|
You are absolutely correct. And the Chinese could flatten our economy at
any time simply by cashing in their treasury bills which they hold due to
our cumulative trade deficits.
Also, I don't think many home studios would be able to operate without the
Chinese components in them.
"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
> . . . not to mention asking Americans to boycott anything is like asking
>them to voluntarily give up their teeth. We are completely addicted to
>comfort and convenience and in general would not give up so much as a single
>square of toilet paper to make the world a better place.
>
>Sarah
>Cynical former organizer of product boycotts
>
>"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:47dd8dd0@linux...
>>I don't think boycotting is the answer. It would hurt average Chinese
>>people the most, anyway.
>>
>> The answer is more communication. Commerce is a form of communication
and
>> as such, I think more commerce will inevitably bring about a metamorphose
>> of the Chinese government. I would prefer to see a peaceful evolution
>> rather than a bloody revolution.
>>
>> Boycotting would get the government hardliners backs up. And
>> realistically, your boycott wouldn't "...amount to a hill of beans in
this
>> world." (add Bogart lisp)
>>
>> I appreciate your desire to change the situation, but I would suggest
>> finding a constructive way to communicate a lot into China, to people,
the
>> government, anywhere. Comm is the solution. Tell them about freedom.
>> Freedom appeals to everybody.
>>
>> James McCloskey wrote:
>>> I think it's time to boycott China and their products, there is no sense
>>> in
>>> supporting this government in any way.
>>>
>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080316/D8VELU0G0.html
>>>
>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080316/D8VEM3KG0.html
>
>
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| Re: China [message #96987 is a reply to message #96983] |
Mon, 17 March 2008 10:20 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Years ago we got by just fine with out Chinese products, and we could again.
Your points are valid, we are addicted to cheap stuff, but we are throwing
the baby out with the bath water. It's the oldest trick in the book, the
shiny object in one hand while they've got their other hand in our other
pocket. We are stupid for going for the cheap shiny little trinkets, because
in the end it's a rip off. The cheap little trinkets won't stay cheap when
whole industries are gone, prices will go up.
That's right, the Chinese hold American debt. Our Politicians that are responsible
for that should be run out on a rail, but the people of this country are
stupid, because they keep voting the same people back in to office. Our
country needs manufacturing to stay safe and strong. The more we buy Chinese
products, the more of our companies will shut down, and the more Americans
will be out of work.
"Gary Flanigan" <garyf_94103@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>You are absolutely correct. And the Chinese could flatten our economy at
>any time simply by cashing in their treasury bills which they hold due to
>our cumulative trade deficits.
>
>Also, I don't think many home studios would be able to operate without the
>Chinese components in them.
>
>
>
>
>
>"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>> . . . not to mention asking Americans to boycott anything is like asking
>
>>them to voluntarily give up their teeth. We are completely addicted to
>
>>comfort and convenience and in general would not give up so much as a single
>
>>square of toilet paper to make the world a better place.
>>
>>Sarah
>>Cynical former organizer of product boycotts
>>
>>"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:47dd8dd0@linux...
>>>I don't think boycotting is the answer. It would hurt average Chinese
>>>people the most, anyway.
>>>
>>> The answer is more communication. Commerce is a form of communication
>and
>>> as such, I think more commerce will inevitably bring about a metamorphose
>
>>> of the Chinese government. I would prefer to see a peaceful evolution
>
>>> rather than a bloody revolution.
>>>
>>> Boycotting would get the government hardliners backs up. And
>>> realistically, your boycott wouldn't "...amount to a hill of beans in
>this
>>> world." (add Bogart lisp)
>>>
>>> I appreciate your desire to change the situation, but I would suggest
>
>>> finding a constructive way to communicate a lot into China, to people,
>the
>>> government, anywhere. Comm is the solution. Tell them about freedom.
>>> Freedom appeals to everybody.
>>>
>>> James McCloskey wrote:
>>>> I think it's time to boycott China and their products, there is no sense
>
>>>> in
>>>> supporting this government in any way.
>>>>
>>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080316/D8VELU0G0.html
>>>>
>>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080316/D8VEM3KG0.html
>>
>>
>
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| Re: China [message #96990 is a reply to message #96987] |
Mon, 17 March 2008 10:14 |
Deej [5]
Messages: 373
Registered: March 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
the only thing I buy at WalMart these days are disposable clothes. I'm
pretty hard on shirts and shoes 'vcause I'm running around in te wilderness
quite a it, jumping over barbede wire fences, fighting with mastadons and
Dire wolves.....that sort of thing. No point in wearing Polo or Calvin
Klein.
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:47de9a4d$1@linux...
>
> Years ago we got by just fine with out Chinese products, and we could
> again.
> Your points are valid, we are addicted to cheap stuff, but we are throwing
> the baby out with the bath water. It's the oldest trick in the book, the
> shiny object in one hand while they've got their other hand in our other
> pocket. We are stupid for going for the cheap shiny little trinkets,
> because
> in the end it's a rip off. The cheap little trinkets won't stay cheap
> when
> whole industries are gone, prices will go up.
>
> That's right, the Chinese hold American debt. Our Politicians that are
> responsible
> for that should be run out on a rail, but the people of this country are
> stupid, because they keep voting the same people back in to office. Our
> country needs manufacturing to stay safe and strong. The more we buy
> Chinese
> products, the more of our companies will shut down, and the more Americans
> will be out of work.
>
> "Gary Flanigan" <garyf_94103@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>You are absolutely correct. And the Chinese could flatten our economy at
>>any time simply by cashing in their treasury bills which they hold due to
>>our cumulative trade deficits.
>>
>>Also, I don't think many home studios would be able to operate without the
>>Chinese components in them.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>> . . . not to mention asking Americans to boycott anything is like asking
>>
>>>them to voluntarily give up their teeth. We are completely addicted to
>>
>>>comfort and convenience and in general would not give up so much as a
>>>single
>>
>>>square of toilet paper to make the world a better place.
>>>
>>>Sarah
>>>Cynical former organizer of product boycotts
>>>
>>>"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:47dd8dd0@linux...
>>>>I don't think boycotting is the answer. It would hurt average Chinese
>
>>>>people the most, anyway.
>>>>
>>>> The answer is more communication. Commerce is a form of communication
>>and
>>>> as such, I think more commerce will inevitably bring about a
>>>> metamorphose
>>
>>>> of the Chinese government. I would prefer to see a peaceful evolution
>>
>>>> rather than a bloody revolution.
>>>>
>>>> Boycotting would get the government hardliners backs up. And
>>>> realistically, your boycott wouldn't "...amount to a hill of beans in
>>this
>>>> world." (add Bogart lisp)
>>>>
>>>> I appreciate your desire to change the situation, but I would suggest
>>
>>>> finding a constructive way to communicate a lot into China, to people,
>>the
>>>> government, anywhere. Comm is the solution. Tell them about freedom.
>
>>>> Freedom appeals to everybody.
>>>>
>>>> James McCloskey wrote:
>>>>> I think it's time to boycott China and their products, there is no
>>>>> sense
>>
>>>>> in
>>>>> supporting this government in any way.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080316/D8VELU0G0.html
>>>>>
>>>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080316/D8VEM3KG0.html
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: China [message #96994 is a reply to message #96990] |
Mon, 17 March 2008 12:00 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"Mr. Simplicity" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>the only thing I buy at WalMart these days are disposable clothes. I'm
>pretty hard on shirts and shoes 'vcause I'm running around in te wilderness
>quite a it, jumping over barbede wire fences, fighting with mastadons and
>Dire wolves.....that sort of thing. No point in wearing Polo or Calvin
>Klein.
Somethings would be hard to do without, no doubt. It would take time to
turn things around. People can vote with their dollars. Red wing shoes
still makes some shoes in America, companies like this should be supported.
I'm saying when China does things like they did the other day the world should
stand up and protest. For the good of our country we should buy American
and stop buying chinese products if you can. Take the time to look to see
where something is made and try to buy American. The other day I bought Fruit
of the Loom socks, I had a choice between American made and Pakistani made,
the same price. The foreign made stuff should sit on the shelves until it
rots. Voices should be heard when it comes to foreign made products, when
there are so many American jobs being lost.
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:47de9a4d$1@linux...
>>
>> Years ago we got by just fine with out Chinese products, and we could
>> again.
>> Your points are valid, we are addicted to cheap stuff, but we are throwing
>> the baby out with the bath water. It's the oldest trick in the book,
the
>> shiny object in one hand while they've got their other hand in our other
>> pocket. We are stupid for going for the cheap shiny little trinkets,
>> because
>> in the end it's a rip off. The cheap little trinkets won't stay cheap
>> when
>> whole industries are gone, prices will go up.
>>
>> That's right, the Chinese hold American debt. Our Politicians that are
>> responsible
>> for that should be run out on a rail, but the people of this country are
>> stupid, because they keep voting the same people back in to office. Our
>> country needs manufacturing to stay safe and strong. The more we buy
>> Chinese
>> products, the more of our companies will shut down, and the more Americans
>> will be out of work.
>>
>> "Gary Flanigan" <garyf_94103@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>You are absolutely correct. And the Chinese could flatten our economy
at
>>>any time simply by cashing in their treasury bills which they hold due
to
>>>our cumulative trade deficits.
>>>
>>>Also, I don't think many home studios would be able to operate without
the
>>>Chinese components in them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>>> . . . not to mention asking Americans to boycott anything is like asking
>>>
>>>>them to voluntarily give up their teeth. We are completely addicted
to
>>>
>>>>comfort and convenience and in general would not give up so much as a
>>>>single
>>>
>>>>square of toilet paper to make the world a better place.
>>>>
>>>>Sarah
>>>>Cynical former organizer of product boycotts
>>>>
>>>>"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:47dd8dd0@linux...
>>>>>I don't think boycotting is the answer. It would hurt average Chinese
>>
>>>>>people the most, anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>> The answer is more communication. Commerce is a form of communication
>>>and
>>>>> as such, I think more commerce will inevitably bring about a
>>>>> metamorphose
>>>
>>>>> of the Chinese government. I would prefer to see a peaceful evolution
>>>
>>>>> rather than a bloody revolution.
>>>>>
>>>>> Boycotting would get the government hardliners backs up. And
>>>>> realistically, your boycott wouldn't "...amount to a hill of beans
in
>>>this
>>>>> world." (add Bogart lisp)
>>>>>
>>>>> I appreciate your desire to change the situation, but I would suggest
>>>
>>>>> finding a constructive way to communicate a lot into China, to people,
>>>the
>>>>> government, anywhere. Comm is the solution. Tell them about freedom.
>>
>>>>> Freedom appeals to everybody.
>>>>>
>>>>> James McCloskey wrote:
>>>>>> I think it's time to boycott China and their products, there is no
>>>>>> sense
>>>
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> supporting this government in any way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080316/D8VELU0G0.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080316/D8VEM3KG0.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: China [message #96995 is a reply to message #96994] |
Mon, 17 March 2008 12:36 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Mr. Simplicity" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>>the only thing I buy at WalMart these days are disposable clothes. I'm
>>pretty hard on shirts and shoes 'vcause I'm running around in te wilderness
>
>>quite a it, jumping over barbede wire fences, fighting with mastadons and
>
>>Dire wolves.....that sort of thing. No point in wearing Polo or Calvin
>>Klein.
>
>Somethings would be hard to do without, no doubt. It would take time to
>turn things around. People can vote with their dollars. Red wing shoes
>still makes some shoes in America, companies like this should be supported.
>
>
>I'm saying when China does things like they did the other day the world
should
>stand up and protest. For the good of our country we should buy American
>and stop buying chinese products if you can. Take the time to look to see
>where something is made and try to buy American. The other day I bought
Fruit
>of the Loom socks, I had a choice between American made and Pakistani made,
>the same price. The foreign made stuff should sit on the shelves until
it
>rots. Voices should be heard when it comes to foreign made products, when
>there are so many American jobs being lost.
>
Maybe I should face it, and realize that things won't change. If you can't
beat them , join them. Give the people what they want, you say? maybe I
should go back in to selling all the new Chinese made audio stuff, nobody
seems to mind.
>>
>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:47de9a4d$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Years ago we got by just fine with out Chinese products, and we could
>
>>> again.
>>> Your points are valid, we are addicted to cheap stuff, but we are throwing
>>> the baby out with the bath water. It's the oldest trick in the book,
>the
>>> shiny object in one hand while they've got their other hand in our other
>>> pocket. We are stupid for going for the cheap shiny little trinkets,
>
>>> because
>>> in the end it's a rip off. The cheap little trinkets won't stay cheap
>
>>> when
>>> whole industries are gone, prices will go up.
>>>
>>> That's right, the Chinese hold American debt. Our Politicians that are
>
>>> responsible
>>> for that should be run out on a rail, but the people of this country
are
>>> stupid, because they keep voting the same people back in to office.
Our
>>> country needs manufacturing to stay safe and strong. The more we buy
>
>>> Chinese
>>> products, the more of our companies will shut down, and the more Americans
>>> will be out of work.
>>>
>>> "Gary Flanigan" <garyf_94103@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>You are absolutely correct. And the Chinese could flatten our economy
>at
>>>>any time simply by cashing in their treasury bills which they hold due
>to
>>>>our cumulative trade deficits.
>>>>
>>>>Also, I don't think many home studios would be able to operate without
>the
>>>>Chinese components in them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>>>> . . . not to mention asking Americans to boycott anything is like asking
>>>>
>>>>>them to voluntarily give up their teeth. We are completely addicted
>to
>>>>
>>>>>comfort and convenience and in general would not give up so much as
a
>
>>>>>single
>>>>
>>>>>square of toilet paper to make the world a better place.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sarah
>>>>>Cynical former organizer of product boycotts
>>>>>
>>>>>"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:47dd8dd0@linux...
>>>>>>I don't think boycotting is the answer. It would hurt average Chinese
>>>
>>>>>>people the most, anyway.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The answer is more communication. Commerce is a form of communication
>>>>and
>>>>>> as such, I think more commerce will inevitably bring about a
>>>>>> metamorphose
>>>>
>>>>>> of the Chinese government. I would prefer to see a peaceful evolution
>>>>
>>>>>> rather than a bloody revolution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Boycotting would get the government hardliners backs up. And
>>>>>> realistically, your boycott wouldn't "...amount to a hill of beans
>in
>>>>this
>>>>>> world." (add Bogart lisp)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I appreciate your desire to change the situation, but I would suggest
>>>>
>>>>>> finding a constructive way to communicate a lot into China, to people,
>>>>the
>>>>>> government, anywhere. Comm is the solution. Tell them about freedom.
>>>
>>>>>> Freedom appeals to everybody.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> James McCloskey wrote:
>>>>>>> I think it's time to boycott China and their products, there is no
>
>>>>>>> sense
>>>>
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> supporting this government in any way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080316/D8VELU0G0.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080316/D8VEM3KG0.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
|
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| Re: China [message #97002 is a reply to message #96982] |
Mon, 17 March 2008 16:42 |
erlilo
Messages: 405
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
James, if it wasn't for Pearl Harbour, Americans had only made money on both
parts in the last worldwar, like president Bush's granddad did really well
under that war. Isn't it time to learn some real history about how America
was being involved in both the first and second worldwar, years after they
really started? I wrote about these historical facts here some years ago, in
the days when Iraq was being occupied, so if you're interested, you can try
to find the posts from those days, or you can find it some other places,
like the internet, that I know you love to search after meanings you can
follow. It's unbelieveable that many Americans yet don't know a shit about
historical facts and still yelling about the glory they got around their
heads after the two worldwars and still love to have these glories today,
after all the shit some of their presidents have made in newer times around
the world.
Erling
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:47de8d9b$1@linux...
>
> Hey erlilo, if it wasn't for Americans coming across the ocean and
> standing
> up to tyranny you'd be speaking Deutsche right now.
>
> "erlilo" <erlingl@tdcadsl.dk> wrote:
>>Is there any difference when a neighbour nation occupying Tibet or a
>>nation
>
>>travel over the whole Pasific Ocean, occupying Iraq?
>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
>>news:47dd6e18@linux...
>>>
>>> I think it's time to boycott China and their products, there is no sense
>
>>> in
>>> supporting this government in any way.
>>>
>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080316/D8VELU0G0.html
>>>
>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080316/D8VEM3KG0.html
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: China [message #97005 is a reply to message #97002] |
Mon, 17 March 2008 18:48 |
Bill L
Messages: 766
Registered: August 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Erling, When you talk about Americans, remember that the small number
who made money from WW2 are not the same ones who laid down their lives
or gave their time or sweat to save our European brothers and sisters.
Bankers and arms manufacturers are the ones who really win in a war.
It's been that way since the very first banker loaned a war lord or king
money to finance a war, probably thousands of years ago. Part of the
money they get back and part they take out in influence. Remember the
hundred years war in Europe. That was a field day for the bankers. They
gained enormous influnce from that - so much so that they managed to
keep the war going for a HUNDRED years, loaning money to all sides.
Please do not make the mistake of seeing all Americans as a great big
generality. Yes, we elect some really, really crappy presidents and
other leaders. My guess is it's about a 4:1 ratio of bad to good. But
bear in mind we are heavily influenced by the lying PR spread by the
same bankers who make money from the dumbass shit that 4 out of 5
presidents do at the bankers bidding.
For those with an interest in this sort of thing there is a fine and
extremely enlightening book called "The Warlords" that details the
influence bankers have had for many centuries in fomenting man's wars.
erlilo wrote:
> James, if it wasn't for Pearl Harbour, Americans had only made money on both
> parts in the last worldwar, like president Bush's granddad did really well
> under that war. Isn't it time to learn some real history about how America
> was being involved in both the first and second worldwar, years after they
> really started? I wrote about these historical facts here some years ago, in
> the days when Iraq was being occupied, so if you're interested, you can try
> to find the posts from those days, or you can find it some other places,
> like the internet, that I know you love to search after meanings you can
> follow. It's unbelieveable that many Americans yet don't know a shit about
> historical facts and still yelling about the glory they got around their
> heads after the two worldwars and still love to have these glories today,
> after all the shit some of their presidents have made in newer times around
> the world.
>
> Erling
>
>
>
>
> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:47de8d9b$1@linux...
>> Hey erlilo, if it wasn't for Americans coming across the ocean and
>> standing
>> up to tyranny you'd be speaking Deutsche right now.
>>
>> "erlilo" <erlingl@tdcadsl.dk> wrote:
>>> Is there any difference when a neighbour nation occupying Tibet or a
>>> nation
>>> travel over the whole Pasific Ocean, occupying Iraq?
>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
>>> news:47dd6e18@linux...
>>>> I think it's time to boycott China and their products, there is no sense
>>>> in
>>>> supporting this government in any way.
>>>>
>>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080316/D8VELU0G0.html
>>>>
>>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080316/D8VEM3KG0.html
>>>
>
>
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