Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Opinions desperately needed-Mixing/tracking with Neve VR and DAW
| Opinions desperately needed-Mixing/tracking with Neve VR and DAW [message #60551] |
Wed, 23 November 2005 09:51  |
Pete Ruthenburg
Messages: 127
Registered: June 2005
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Senior Member |
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w settup I'm wondering if this might work:tracking
> >through the Neve to PT,then back out to the Neve and analog gear,
> >then into PARIS.
> > But then I'm dealing with TDM plugs in PT which maybe defeats
> >the purpose.I could track to something else I guess besides PT,
> >but that might complicate matters as he will always do PT.
> >
> > Whatever I do I like the idea of being away from the house with
> >bigger rooms(the drums sound really nice in there)and some higher
> >end gear to learn a little about.I think my C7 will sound nice in
> >there.Maybe the VR is redundant now a days,but it can't hurt to
> >get some time in on a board like that I guess.
> >
> > Any ideas on this whole outboard analog/DAW thing in this
> >situation greatly appreciated.
> >
> >TIA,
> >Pete Ruthenburg
>Deej,yeah I was wondering if it would beneficial or not to go
back into PARIS or if thats just redundant.
You want me to forgo our beloved PARIS on my projects!Shame;)
I was thinking you might tell me track to PT,back to Neve for analog processing,then
to Nuendo for UAD ADC,then to PARIS for
summing out to a 1/2" machine all with Myteks;or something more
complicated:)
By the way was it you who bought those Myteks fs recently?
Pete
"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>I'd say just to output from the Pro Too
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| Re: Opinions desperately needed-Mixing/tracking with Neve VR and DAW [message #60554 is a reply to message #60551] |
Wed, 23 November 2005 12:10  |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
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ore gear.
>> >
>> > The site for the studio is www.musiccreekstudios.com if anyone
>> >cares to look.You can click on the picture and it will bring up
>> >some more pics;preliminary site right now.
>> >
>> > Anyway it is a Neve VR and hes doing the PT thing mixing back
>> >out through the Neve.Right now I'm trying to figure out how/if
>> >I can incorporate PARIS into this scenario.Reading Gene's post
>> >on his new settup I'm wondering if this might work:tracking
>> >through the Neve to PT,then back out to the Neve and analog gear,
>> >then into PARIS.
>> > But then I'm dealing with TDM plugs in PT which maybe defeats
>> >the purpose.I could track to something else I guess besides PT,
>> >but that might complicate matters as he will always do PT.
>> >
>> > Whatever I do I like the idea of being away from the house with
>> >bigger rooms(the drums sound really nice in there)and some higher
>> >end gear to learn a little about.I think my C7 will sound nice in
>> >there.Maybe the VR is redundant now a days,but it can't hurt to
>> >get some time in on a board like that I guess.
>> >
>> > Any ideas on this whole outboard analog/DAW thing in this
>> >situation greatly appreciated.
>> >
>> >TIA,
>> >Pete Ruthenburg
>>
>
>Tony,
I have converted those .wma files to MP3's and e-mailed them to you. the
..wma files were DRM encoded. I don't have a clue how that happened-it
certainly wasn't intentional on my part. I think my WMP did it somehow
without my catching it. Anyway, being the lazy ass slacker that I am, I
decided to figure out a way to defeat DRM so I wouldn't have to get up, walk
into the other room, boot my DAW, convert the bounces to MP3, then burn them
to a CD. It's pretty easy rea
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| Re: Opinions desperately needed-Mixing/tracking with Neve VR and DAW [message #60555 is a reply to message #60554] |
Wed, 23 November 2005 12:17 |
Pete Ruthenburg
Messages: 127
Registered: June 2005
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Senior Member |
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lly.....at least I think I have succeeded. It
just requires the sacrifice of one CD. All you need to do is to burn these
copy protected files to an Audio CD (I used Nero), then rip the CD and save
the files as MP3's. That's what I did with the files I sent you. I don't
notice any audible degradation. Let me know if the DRM copy protection shows
up on your end. It doesn't show up here on the MP3's so don't think it will
be an issue with the files I sent you.
Cheers,
Deej
"Tony Benson" <tony@standinghampton.com> wrote in message
news:BFA962B2.2872%tony@standinghampton.com...
> Darn, and here I thought we were going to get to see some movies of real
> barefoot bluegrass pickin' hippies! ;>)
>
> I don't know why I always assume video when I see .wma. Anyway, I'll be
glad
> to swap them out when the new mp3's arrive.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tony
>
> On 11/22/05 9:32 PM, in article 4383e371@linux, "DJ"
> <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>
> > Hi Tony,
> >
> > I've got the original Paris boundces of these on a hard drive. I'll look
> > around and find them, convert the to MP3 and you can substituet them for
> > these ((((&^(*&^ .wma files. I'm not even sure how these got .wma'ed.
It's a
> > PITA, that's for sure.
> >
> > DJ
> >
> > "Tony" <tony@standinghampton.com> wrote in message
> > news:BFA92310.472EC%tony@standinghampton.com...
> >> Deej sent me some more files from "The Barefoot Hippies" sessions.
They're
> >> up on www.mercysakes.com under the Doug Joyce folder. I'm having
problems
> >> opening the .wma files, but maybe it's just couse I'm on these pesky
Macs
> >> here at home. I get a message saying the file was ripped from a
> > copyrighted
> >> source and I need to authorize it to be played on my machine.? If I hit
> > the
> >> "authorize" button, I get an error page. I've got the latest version of
> >> Windows Media Player for the Mac installed, but they always lag a bit
> > behind
> >> the Windows versions as far as compatibility and operation. Can anyone
say
> >> Microsoft sabotage? Just kidding, I'm probably doing something wrong.
> >> Anyway, enjoy the files.
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| Re: Opinions desperately needed-Mixing/tracking with Neve VR and DAW [message #60556 is a reply to message #60554] |
Wed, 23 November 2005 11:14 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
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Senior Member |
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/>
> >>
> >> Tony
> >>
> >
> >
>Is there an 8 meter long "salty" in there? I wouldn't get too close until I
threw a chicken carcass or something in the water to see if it gets devoured
by some kind of prehistoric looking saurian.
;o).
"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:43841dca@linux...
>
>
> Is this not the most Australian thing you've ever seen? ;o)Hmmmmm........cool idea Gene. Of course, since I'm outputting 48 tracks to
Paris, track by track, rather than using stems, I'm gonna have to get a
*lot* more converters now.
;o)
"gene lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:438487bf$1@linux...
>
> "Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote:
> >
> >Dear Gene,
> >After a quick read I ahve some questions if you don't mind.
> >You record in DP using your Myteks at 96khz, right ?
> >Then you say you are submixing inside Paris... how do you do it when DP
> works
> >at 96 and Paris at 44.1 ?
> >I missed something here...
> >Next you are saying you though 20bit adat had some drawbacks , now it
doesn't
> >have ?
> >Can you please explain how Paris adat now sounds ok with no hearable
degradation
> >?
> >Regards,
> >Dimitrios
>
>
> Sorry I wasn't clearer.
> In this setup I am using analog inputs to Paris as if I was using it as a
> live console from live audio.
> Paris is set to 44.1. Clocked from the Mytek A/D converter.
> Performer is set to 96K and clocked from my Mytek D/A converter. (This
generation
> of the Mytek is two separate boxes each with its own clock.).
>
> http://www.mytekdigital.com/products/8x96.htm
>
> Analog out of DP to analog in of Paris.
> Insert hardware when needed between DP and Paris while still analog.
> NO ADAT optical is used in this setup at all, so no deterioration from the
> 20bit transfers. (Actually I do use ADAT for interfacing to additional
computers
> but not for the main transfers.)
>
> I was originally resistant to going this route because of my desire to
avoid
> A/D convers
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| Re: Opinions desperately needed-Mixing/tracking with Neve VR andDAW [message #60562 is a reply to message #60555] |
Wed, 23 November 2005 12:46 |
EK Sound
Messages: 939
Registered: June 2005
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Senior Member |
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makes the recording/mixing schedule much less
>>>flexible in the basement at the house.In addition I'll be gaining
>>>access to nice bigger rooms and more gear.
>>>
>>> The site for the studio is www.musiccreekstudios.com if anyone
>>>cares to look.You can click on the picture and it will bring up
>>>some more pics;preliminary site right now.
>>>
>>> Anyway it is a Neve VR and hes doing the PT thing mixing back
>>>out through the Neve.Right now I'm trying to figure out how/if
>>>I can incorporate PARIS into this scenario.Reading Gene's post
>>>on his new settup I'm wondering if this might work:tracking
>>>through the Neve to PT,then back out to the Neve and analog gear,
>>>then into PARIS.
>>> But then I'm dealing with TDM plugs in PT which maybe defeats
>>>the purpose.I could track to something else I guess besides PT,
>>>but that might complicate matters as he will always do PT.
>>>
>>> Whatever I do I like the idea of being away from the house with
>>>bigger rooms(the drums sound really nice in there)and some higher
>>>end gear to learn a little about.I think my C7 will sound nice in
>>>there.Maybe the VR is redundant now a days,but it can't hurt to
>>>get some time in on a board like that I guess.
>>>
>>> Any ideas on this whole outboard analog/DAW thing in this
>>>situation greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>>TIA,
>>>Pete Ruthenburg
>>
>In which case you want to contact syntaur.... I loaded up my old Ensoniq
synth with these guys' stuff, including ROM chips. Mixed results on the
chip, but they have the goods.
http://www.syntaur.com
AA
"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:4384e559$1@linux...
>
>
> Of course using the disk as indicated by the other guys will allow the
> keyboard
> to boot up, but it still wont have any actual sounds in it. You'll either
> have to sample some sounds yourself, or aquire some disks with sounds on
> them to use with it.
>
> Cheers,
> Kim.
>
> "Yossi" <yossig@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>
>> recently I was given a keyboard Ensoniq EPS16+
>>when powering up it asks to insert the disk.. I do not
>>have the os or any disk.. how can I make it work?? is the
>>software available on the net ??? thanks
>Sequoia is the same audio engine as Samplitude, but has more features for
post production work. If you are doing music, Sam works great.
I have been using it for about 2 years now, after switching from Paris, and
I think it sounds very, very good. It has by far the best built-in EQs (2
types), compressors (3 types, including a multiband), effects, and a
convolution reverb. It has a very advanced auto or graphical pitch
correction feature. You hardly need to use 3rd party plugins with it. Burns
CDs too. Haven't touched Sound Forge sinc
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| Re: Opinions desperately needed-Mixing/tracking with Neve VR and DAW [message #60568 is a reply to message #60555] |
Wed, 23 November 2005 15:18 |
Bill Lorentzen
Messages: 140
Registered: June 2005
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Senior Member |
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3/05 1:24 AM, in article 43841924$1@linux, "DC" <dc@spamsony.org>
wrote:
>
> DTerry <dterry@no_spamkeyofd.net> wrote:
>
>> For studios, music and post, don't rule out Nuendo which just added some
> of
>> the best studio/control room monitoring features I've seen in a DAW (3.2)
> -
>
>
> I have 2 issues with Nuendo.
>
> 1. Unless things have gotten a lot better recently, tech support is
> terrible...
I haven't needed support for Nuendo/SX yet, so I can't comment there. The
forum is knowledgeable enough usually that I don't see needing direct
support.
Support was poor with Logic also (at least my attempts to contact email
support never got answered) - non-existent basically. I have a feeling this
is a limitation with smaller (smaller than Digi) companies overseas. US
support is limited. Then again, I never had much luck with MOTU, but
supposedly they are better now (no more part time Berkley students I
guess...)
>
> 2. I have sat down with it at trade shows twice and it sounded
> awful both times. Now there are dozens of reasons why this
> may be such as convertors, monitors, etc etc, but Paris always
> sounded great at shows, so it clearly can be done. I do not know
> whether the harshness I heard was the app or something else.
There is no reason why Nuendo itself would sound bad anymore than
Samplitude, DP, Logic, Sonar or SawStudio, or Paris for that matter. I
would never use a tradeshow to judge audio quality of anything. For sure,
there is no telling who setup the rig and what gear they used - hardly a
sound engineering reason to write it off. As Bill replied - the demos
aren't great - kind of like one of the Paris demos I heard - and Logic,
etc.... For some reason some of these demos think dropping in some mp3
loops constitutes a demo of a professional recording app.
I've produced rap, rock, pop, dance, acoustic, orchestral, etc - Nuendo
sounds great. Also I think some people pop up built in EQs, comps, reverbs,
etc, run a mix, and assume that's the sound of the DAW. Makes me wonder
where these people learned engineering... Like all things, even mediocre
gear/plugins can work in the right situation (see last comment below).
>
> BTW, I bet the PT people can show you bit-for-bit cancellation
> tests with PT as well, and thereby "prove" that the mix buss
> sounds perfect.
>
> But we know it doesn't, so the test is not telling us something.
Bit for bit cancellation with what? Another PT rig? For sure. With
Samplitude or Nuendo? No way if you use audio files with more than 16 bits
of dynamic range. I know other users that have tested Samplitude and Nuendo
and gotten the same cancellation results. FWIW, Lynn Fuston has a DAWSUM
sampler testing this very thing for anyone interested.
This is a long debated issue that so far, as a Nuendo user, and former Paris
user, I can't find a reason why Samplitude would sound any better - either
technical or audible, and I've tested both ways. I think the truth of the
matter is sound is 50% perception. Some think one DAW will sound better,
and it does. Put a Samplitude/Sequoia wrapper on Cubase SX and I bet 8 out
of 10 listeners will think it sounds better. Some users claimed v2 sounded
better than 1, but they were the same audio engine - just a different look.
What many people never take into account with testing is trying to run
regular mixes, substituting in different EQs, etc. Sorry, won't work. To
be valid, all gain changes have to be identical, or set to 0 if they can't
be
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| Re: Opinions desperately needed-Mixing/tracking with Neve VR and DAW [message #60571 is a reply to message #60557] |
Wed, 23 November 2005 18:41 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
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wrong with those who run that company.
I first heard Matchless amps, the new Telefunken mics, Fearn
preamps, Soundelux mics, and about 50 other things at big trade
shows, and all of them sounded great both there and in daily use.
>For sure,
>there is no telling who setup the rig and what gear they used - hardly a
>sound engineering reason to write it off.
As a client, you have to conclude that someone blew it. Either
the trade show people, or those who created the product. How
do you know? Well, when a pro like yourself tells me it sounds
great, that carries a lot of weight, but the company could have
done
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| Re: Opinions desperately needed-Mixing/tracking with Neve VR and DAW [message #60573 is a reply to message #60551] |
Wed, 23 November 2005 20:56 |
dave Parkin
Messages: 24
Registered: August 2005
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Junior Member |
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ike all things, even mediocre
>gear/plugins can work in the right situation.
Absolutely.
>Bit for bit cancellation with what? Another PT rig? For sure. With
>Samplitude or Nuendo? No way if you use audio files with more than 16 bits
>of dynamic range. I know other users that have tested Samplitude and Nuendo
>and gotten the same cancellation results. FWIW, Lynn Fuston has a DAWSUM
>sampler testing this very thing for anyone interested.
And all this testing is worthwhile, yet not definitive. Time after time
in the last 50 years in audio, somone has come up with a "definitive"
test for something and discarded the audible evidence right in front
of them. Later, someone a bit smarter figures out how to test for
what they heard and says "oh yeah, here's what you heard".
It's like the folks who say there is no difference in CD recording
media or writing speeds. I heard SSC say on this very forum that
media didn't matter, but you shouldn't write audio CD's at 44X.
Well, why not? they checksum perfectly! But they sound like crap.
So, while we need (desperately) objective standards and
measurements in audio, I have to say that someone who convinces
themselves they did not hear something that they know they did
hear, is almost as silly as someone who believes in every single
goofy myth on Harmony Central.
Hearing things that we cannot measure is how both audio and the
science of measurement progress.
>This is a long debated issue that so far, as a Nuendo user, and former Paris
>user, I can't find a reason why Samplitude would sound any better - either
>technical or audible, and I've tested both ways.
I don't know that Sequoia sounds any better or different than
Nuendo. Haven't spent time with it. I like Sequoia because the
editing just rocks, and you can master in the same app as you
track and mix. Also, it's reputation in classical r
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