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The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83758] Fri, 27 April 2007 09:02 Go to next message
TCB is currently offline  TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
Senior Member
1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of that
emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation. And
of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch. But
it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things on everything.
And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast for
many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which shouldn't
really need compression anyway. I hear mixes from my friends and the percussive
attack of the notes are just gone. It's mush. And nine times out of ten I
say, 'Hey, you're using an LA-2A on the guitars aren't you?' and then they
think I'm some golden ears genius. No, your guitars sound like shit.

2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.

So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to make
sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first. I solemnly
swear to the entire PARIS newsgroup.

TCB
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83759 is a reply to message #83758] Fri, 27 April 2007 09:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dc[3] is currently offline  dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
Senior Member
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:

>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast for
>many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which shouldn't
>really need compression anyway.

Check this out:

http://www.barberelectronics.com/tonepress.htm

The blend knob allows parallel processing right in the box and it
makes compression work really well on guitar. It sounds terrific even
on really aggressive guitar sounds.

DC
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83760 is a reply to message #83758] Fri, 27 April 2007 10:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neil is currently offline  Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
Senior Member
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of that
>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
And
>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch. But
>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things on
everything.
>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast for
>many of the places where people put them.

Which is why a lot of people like the 1176 for guitars - it
lets the initial transients through while crushing the shit out
of the rest of the signal.

>Like electric guitars, which shouldn't really need compression
anyway.

Depends on the rest of your sonic content - sometimes a little
squeeze on the guitars helps to bring other things out in the
mix better... for me, compresson in this case is more about
making the guitars "sit down" rather than stand out. Where I
think people fuck up is to record a distorted guitar with
compression... it's really already compressed, when you think
about it, so if you track it with more compression on it, you've
kinda screwed yourself out of some dynamics before you even get
to hear how it sounds in context with everything else.

>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.

Try one on kick sometime... set a 3-band one for 200 to 300hz on
the top end of the low band, and 3k-ish on the low end of the
high band, smash the crap out of it, then duck down the
level/output of the mid band ;)
You may never EQ a kick again.

>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to make
>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first.

Stick with Lead vox & snare applications for the LA-2A & you'll
probably fall in love with it.

Neil
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83762 is a reply to message #83760] Fri, 27 April 2007 10:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TCB is currently offline  TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
Senior Member
Of course, Neil, they're both great tools when used appropriately, but most
people don't. The reason I brought it up was because I got a CD from someone
and they want me to buff up the stereo tracks a little before they have it
printed. They're good friends and I want to help but there's no headroom
left (they mixed with a multi-band compressor AND an LA-2A across the 2-bus)
and I have to decide to either tell them the truth or squish it a teensy
bit more and give it back to them. And they're a _good_ band so I'd like
that to be reflected on their recordings.

I still think being a synth guy and having to understand envelopes as modulators
is a huge advantage when thinking about compression.

TCB

"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of
that
>>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
>And
>>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch. But
>>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things on
>everything.
>>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast for
>>many of the places where people put them.
>
>Which is why a lot of people like the 1176 for guitars - it
>lets the initial transients through while crushing the shit out
>of the rest of the signal.
>
>>Like electric guitars, which shouldn't really need compression
>anyway.
>
>Depends on the rest of your sonic content - sometimes a little
>squeeze on the guitars helps to bring other things out in the
>mix better... for me, compresson in this case is more about
>making the guitars "sit down" rather than stand out. Where I
>think people fuck up is to record a distorted guitar with
>compression... it's really already compressed, when you think
>about it, so if you track it with more compression on it, you've
>kinda screwed yourself out of some dynamics before you even get
>to hear how it sounds in context with everything else.
>
>>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>
>Try one on kick sometime... set a 3-band one for 200 to 300hz on
>the top end of the low band, and 3k-ish on the low end of the
>high band, smash the crap out of it, then duck down the
>level/output of the mid band ;)
>You may never EQ a kick again.
>
>>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to
make
>>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first.
>
>Stick with Lead vox & snare applications for the LA-2A & you'll
>probably fall in love with it.
>
>Neil
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83763 is a reply to message #83759] Fri, 27 April 2007 11:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TCB is currently offline  TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
Senior Member
Compression on the way to the amp, esp for clean sounds or that Roger McGuinn
twang, is one thing. I'm talking at mixdown, which I think is very different.

TCB

"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast for
>>many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which
shouldn't
>>really need compression anyway.
>
>Check this out:
>
>http://www.barberelectronics.com/tonepress.htm
>
>The blend knob allows parallel processing right in the box and it
>makes compression work really well on guitar. It sounds terrific even
>on really aggressive guitar sounds.
>
>DC
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83764 is a reply to message #83763] Fri, 27 April 2007 11:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DC is currently offline  DC
Messages: 722
Registered: July 2005
Senior Member
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>Compression on the way to the amp, esp for clean sounds or that Roger McGuinn
>twang, is one thing. I'm talking at mixdown, which I think is very different.
>
>TCB


In the mix, I use a lot of parallel compression and it works even for
heavy and punky guitar sounds.

As far as the pedal goes, it kills on way more than clean or twangy
sounds. You should hear it, it would work on your stuff IMO.

DC
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83768 is a reply to message #83764] Fri, 27 April 2007 11:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Carl Amburn is currently offline  Carl Amburn   UNITED STATES
Messages: 214
Registered: July 2005
Senior Member
Could be wrong here, but this is cracking me up a little bit - isn't the
point he was making to *not* use compression on guitars - and... you guys
are all submitting tons of compressors to try out..... !!! Funny, man.

rock on,
-Carl

"DC" <dc@spammersinthemix.com> wrote in message news:46323dc6$1@linux...
>
> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
> >
> >Compression on the way to the amp, esp for clean sounds or that Roger
McGuinn
> >twang, is one thing. I'm talking at mixdown, which I think is very
different.
> >
> >TCB
>
>
> In the mix, I use a lot of parallel compression and it works even for
> heavy and punky guitar sounds.
>
> As far as the pedal goes, it kills on way more than clean or twangy
> sounds. You should hear it, it would work on your stuff IMO.
>
> DC
>
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83769 is a reply to message #83762] Fri, 27 April 2007 12:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neil is currently offline  Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
Senior Member
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>Of course, Neil, they're both great tools when used appropriately, but most
>people don't. The reason I brought it up was because I got a CD from someone
>and they want me to buff up the stereo tracks a little before they have
it
>printed. They're good friends and I want to help but there's no headroom
>left

In cubase, what if you dropped the gain on the files (not the
track level controls, the actual file) by about 3 to 5 db & give
yourself some headroom?

Or does the waveform already look like it's just got a crewcut
all the way across the top?

Neil
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83770 is a reply to message #83769] Fri, 27 April 2007 12:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TCB is currently offline  TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
Senior Member
Crewcut? I'd love a crewcut, this more of a tabletop vibe.

TCB

"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>Of course, Neil, they're both great tools when used appropriately, but
most
>>people don't. The reason I brought it up was because I got a CD from someone
>>and they want me to buff up the stereo tracks a little before they have
>it
>>printed. They're good friends and I want to help but there's no headroom
>>left
>
>In cubase, what if you dropped the gain on the files (not the
>track level controls, the actual file) by about 3 to 5 db & give
>yourself some headroom?
>
>Or does the waveform already look like it's just got a crewcut
>all the way across the top?
>
>Neil
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83772 is a reply to message #83760] Fri, 27 April 2007 13:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TCB is currently offline  TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
Senior Member
In one of the interviews I did for Home Recording years ago I was talking
to the guy who did a couple of Pearl Jam records. I forget his name. Funny
guy. Anyway, I asked what he though was the single most important thing to
getting a good drum mix and he said, 'Cut as much as you can at 400 Hz.'

TCB

"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of
that
>>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
>And
>>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch. But
>>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things on
>everything.
>>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast for
>>many of the places where people put them.
>
>Which is why a lot of people like the 1176 for guitars - it
>lets the initial transients through while crushing the shit out
>of the rest of the signal.
>
>>Like electric guitars, which shouldn't really need compression
>anyway.
>
>Depends on the rest of your sonic content - sometimes a little
>squeeze on the guitars helps to bring other things out in the
>mix better... for me, compresson in this case is more about
>making the guitars "sit down" rather than stand out. Where I
>think people fuck up is to record a distorted guitar with
>compression... it's really already compressed, when you think
>about it, so if you track it with more compression on it, you've
>kinda screwed yourself out of some dynamics before you even get
>to hear how it sounds in context with everything else.
>
>>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>
>Try one on kick sometime... set a 3-band one for 200 to 300hz on
>the top end of the low band, and 3k-ish on the low end of the
>high band, smash the crap out of it, then duck down the
>level/output of the mid band ;)
>You may never EQ a kick again.
>
>>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to
make
>>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first.
>
>Stick with Lead vox & snare applications for the LA-2A & you'll
>probably fall in love with it.
>
>Neil
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83774 is a reply to message #83770] Fri, 27 April 2007 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neil is currently offline  Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
Senior Member
Then you desperately need a good expander.


"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>Crewcut? I'd love a crewcut, this more of a tabletop vibe.
>
>TCB
>
>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>
>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Of course, Neil, they're both great tools when used appropriately, but
>most
>>>people don't. The reason I brought it up was because I got a CD from someone
>>>and they want me to buff up the stereo tracks a little before they have
>>it
>>>printed. They're good friends and I want to help but there's no headroom
>>>left
>>
>>In cubase, what if you dropped the gain on the files (not the
>>track level controls, the actual file) by about 3 to 5 db & give
>>yourself some headroom?
>>
>>Or does the waveform already look like it's just got a crewcut
>>all the way across the top?
>>
>>Neil
>
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83776 is a reply to message #83758] Fri, 27 April 2007 14:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gantt Kushner is currently offline  Gantt Kushner   
Messages: 545
Registered: June 2006
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland, ...
Senior Member

Not that I disagree... but my vote would be:

1. Autotune

2. Autotune

Gantt


"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of that
>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
And
>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch. But
>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things on
everything.
>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast for
>many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which shouldn't
>really need compression anyway. I hear mixes from my friends and the percussive
>attack of the notes are just gone. It's mush. And nine times out of ten
I
>say, 'Hey, you're using an LA-2A on the guitars aren't you?' and then they
>think I'm some golden ears genius. No, your guitars sound like shit.
>
>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>
>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to make
>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first. I
solemnly
>swear to the entire PARIS newsgroup.
>
>TCB


Gantt Kushner
Gizmo Recording Company
Silver Spring, MD
www.gizmorecording.com
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83778 is a reply to message #83768] Fri, 27 April 2007 16:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dc[3] is currently offline  dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
Senior Member
Actually, the point was about parallel processing on
compression, which doesn't sound squashed. It can be
done with any compressor on mixdown, but there is
only one pedal that does it.

best,

DC


"Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>Could be wrong here, but this is cracking me up a little bit - isn't the
>point he was making to *not* use compression on guitars - and... you guys
>are all submitting tons of compressors to try out..... !!! Funny, man.
>
>rock on,
>-Carl
>
>"DC" <dc@spammersinthemix.com> wrote in message news:46323dc6$1@linux...
>>
>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >Compression on the way to the amp, esp for clean sounds or that Roger
>McGuinn
>> >twang, is one thing. I'm talking at mixdown, which I think is very
>different.
>> >
>> >TCB
>>
>>
>> In the mix, I use a lot of parallel compression and it works even for
>> heavy and punky guitar sounds.
>>
>> As far as the pedal goes, it kills on way more than clean or twangy
>> sounds. You should hear it, it would work on your stuff IMO.
>>
>> DC
>>
>
>
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83779 is a reply to message #83778] Fri, 27 April 2007 16:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neil[1] is currently offline  neil[1]
Messages: 164
Registered: October 2006
Senior Member
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>Actually, the point was about parallel processing on
>compression, which doesn't sound squashed. It can be
>done with any compressor on mixdown, but there is
>only one pedal that does it.

Two... the Dan Armstrong Orange Squeezer (if you can ever find
one anywhere).

Neil
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83782 is a reply to message #83758] Fri, 27 April 2007 16:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deej [4] is currently offline  Deej [4]   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
Senior Member
Damn!!!.....and I bought 4 UAD cards so I could run 87 of those things.!!!!

;oD



"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:46321e87$1@linux...
>
> 1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of
> that
> emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
> And
> of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch. But
> it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things on
> everything.
> And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast for
> many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which
> shouldn't
> really need compression anyway. I hear mixes from my friends and the
> percussive
> attack of the notes are just gone. It's mush. And nine times out of ten I
> say, 'Hey, you're using an LA-2A on the guitars aren't you?' and then they
> think I'm some golden ears genius. No, your guitars sound like shit.
>
> 2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>
> So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to
> make
> sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first. I
> solemnly
> swear to the entire PARIS newsgroup.
>
> TCB
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83783 is a reply to message #83779] Fri, 27 April 2007 16:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dc[3] is currently offline  dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
Senior Member
The Orange squeezer is a GREAT sounding box. But no blend knob.

And they are being re-issued!

http://www.wdmusic.com/category_13466.htm

DC


"Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>
>>Actually, the point was about parallel processing on
>>compression, which doesn't sound squashed. It can be
>>done with any compressor on mixdown, but there is
>>only one pedal that does it.
>
>Two... the Dan Armstrong Orange Squeezer (if you can ever find
>one anywhere).
>
>Neil
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83786 is a reply to message #83783] Fri, 27 April 2007 17:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neil is currently offline  Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
Senior Member
HOLY CRAP!! I'm gonna have to get one - those are the best Bass
compressors, EVER... they're OK for guitar to get that sound we
were mentioning, but IMO for bass they absofuckingloutley crank.

Only thing is, Gotta de-solder the input & output hot leads &
switche 'em around, though... that way you can stick the "plug"
end of the box in your amp input, instead of having it dangle
from your guitar jack (which is a physical impossibility in the
first place, if you play a strat - think about it).

Neil



"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>The Orange squeezer is a GREAT sounding box. But no blend knob.
>
>And they are being re-issued!
>
>http://www.wdmusic.com/category_13466.htm
>
>DC
>
>
>"Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>
>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Actually, the point was about parallel processing on
>>>compression, which doesn't sound squashed. It can be
>>>done with any compressor on mixdown, but there is
>>>only one pedal that does it.
>>
>>Two... the Dan Armstrong Orange Squeezer (if you can ever find
>>one anywhere).
>>
>>Neil
>
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83788 is a reply to message #83786] Fri, 27 April 2007 17:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dc[3] is currently offline  dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
Senior Member
I played one of the reissues when some of the prototypes
were floating around. I think like they got it right.

That box really works.

DC


"Neil" <OIUOIU@OI.com> wrote:
>
>HOLY CRAP!! I'm gonna have to get one - those are the best Bass
>compressors, EVER... they're OK for guitar to get that sound we
>were mentioning, but IMO for bass they absofuckingloutley crank.
>
>Only thing is, Gotta de-solder the input & output hot leads &
>switche 'em around, though... that way you can stick the "plug"
>end of the box in your amp input, instead of having it dangle
>from your guitar jack (which is a physical impossibility in the
>first place, if you play a strat - think about it).
>
>Neil
>
>
>
>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>
>>The Orange squeezer is a GREAT sounding box. But no blend knob.
>>
>>And they are being re-issued!
>>
>>http://www.wdmusic.com/category_13466.htm
>>
>>DC
>>
>>
>>"Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Actually, the point was about parallel processing on
>>>>compression, which doesn't sound squashed. It can be
>>>>done with any compressor on mixdown, but there is
>>>>only one pedal that does it.
>>>
>>>Two... the Dan Armstrong Orange Squeezer (if you can ever find
>>>one anywhere).
>>>
>>>Neil
>>
>
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83789 is a reply to message #83774] Fri, 27 April 2007 21:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nei is currently offline  Nei
Messages: 108
Registered: November 2006
Senior Member
Thadster, send me the files if you want me to fuck with 'em &
see what I can do (I've got a couple of expansion tricks that
mite jeeest work).

Neil


"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>Then you desperately need a good expander.
>
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>Crewcut? I'd love a crewcut, this more of a tabletop vibe.
>>
>>TCB
>>
>>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Of course, Neil, they're both great tools when used appropriately, but
>>most
>>>>people don't. The reason I brought it up was because I got a CD from
someone
>>>>and they want me to buff up the stereo tracks a little before they have
>>>it
>>>>printed. They're good friends and I want to help but there's no headroom
>>>>left
>>>
>>>In cubase, what if you dropped the gain on the files (not the
>>>track level controls, the actual file) by about 3 to 5 db & give
>>>yourself some headroom?
>>>
>>>Or does the waveform already look like it's just got a crewcut
>>>all the way across the top?
>>>
>>>Neil
>>
>
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83819 is a reply to message #83776] Sat, 28 April 2007 21:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TCB is currently offline  TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
Senior Member
Touche

TCB

"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>Not that I disagree... but my vote would be:
>
>1. Autotune
>
>2. Autotune
>
>Gantt
>
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of
that
>>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
>And
>>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch. But
>>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things on
>everything.
>>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast for
>>many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which
shouldn't
>>really need compression anyway. I hear mixes from my friends and the percussive
>>attack of the notes are just gone. It's mush. And nine times out of ten
>I
>>say, 'Hey, you're using an LA-2A on the guitars aren't you?' and then they
>>think I'm some golden ears genius. No, your guitars sound like shit.
>>
>>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>>
>>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to
make
>>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first. I
>solemnly
>>swear to the entire PARIS newsgroup.
>>
>>TCB
>
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83820 is a reply to message #83776] Sat, 28 April 2007 21:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sarah is currently offline  Sarah   UNITED STATES
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2007
Senior Member
OK, I'm halfway with you.

1. Autotune

2. Quantizing

Sarah


"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:46326c60$1@linux...
>
> Not that I disagree... but my vote would be:
>
> 1. Autotune
>
> 2. Autotune
>
> Gantt
>
>
> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of
>>that
>>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
> And
>>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch. But
>>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things on
> everything.
>>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast for
>>many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which
>>shouldn't
>>really need compression anyway. I hear mixes from my friends and the
>>percussive
>>attack of the notes are just gone. It's mush. And nine times out of ten
> I
>>say, 'Hey, you're using an LA-2A on the guitars aren't you?' and then they
>>think I'm some golden ears genius. No, your guitars sound like shit.
>>
>>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>>
>>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to
>>make
>>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first. I
> solemnly
>>swear to the entire PARIS newsgroup.
>>
>>TCB
>
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83825 is a reply to message #83820] Sat, 28 April 2007 21:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aaron Allen is currently offline  Aaron Allen   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
Senior Member
I happen to like both of those tools and think it's more the ID ten T loose
nut driving the keyboard.
:)

AA


"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote in message news:46341cf1$1@linux...
> OK, I'm halfway with you.
>
> 1. Autotune
>
> 2. Quantizing
>
> Sarah
>
>
> "Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:46326c60$1@linux...
>>
>> Not that I disagree... but my vote would be:
>>
>> 1. Autotune
>>
>> 2. Autotune
>>
>> Gantt
>>
>>
>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of
>>>that
>>>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
>> And
>>>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch. But
>>>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things on
>> everything.
>>>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast for
>>>many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which
>>>shouldn't
>>>really need compression anyway. I hear mixes from my friends and the
>>>percussive
>>>attack of the notes are just gone. It's mush. And nine times out of ten
>> I
>>>say, 'Hey, you're using an LA-2A on the guitars aren't you?' and then
>>>they
>>>think I'm some golden ears genius. No, your guitars sound like shit.
>>>
>>>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>>>
>>>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to
>>>make
>>>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first. I
>> solemnly
>>>swear to the entire PARIS newsgroup.
>>>
>>>TCB
>>
>
>
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83852 is a reply to message #83820] Sun, 29 April 2007 23:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LaMont is currently offline  LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
Senior Member
I totally disagree with all who said Auto-tune. It's effect (autotune)just
like a phase-shifter, chorus, flanger. And,and can save a great vocal performance..

My vote would go to the beat boxes(R8, 808, MPC)

"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>OK, I'm halfway with you.
>
>1. Autotune
>
>2. Quantizing
>
>Sarah
>
>
>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:46326c60$1@linux...
>>
>> Not that I disagree... but my vote would be:
>>
>> 1. Autotune
>>
>> 2. Autotune
>>
>> Gantt
>>
>>
>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of

>>>that
>>>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
>> And
>>>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch.
But
>>>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things on
>> everything.
>>>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast
for
>>>many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which

>>>shouldn't
>>>really need compression anyway. I hear mixes from my friends and the
>>>percussive
>>>attack of the notes are just gone. It's mush. And nine times out of ten
>> I
>>>say, 'Hey, you're using an LA-2A on the guitars aren't you?' and then
they
>>>think I'm some golden ears genius. No, your guitars sound like shit.
>>>
>>>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>>>
>>>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to

>>>make
>>>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first.
I
>> solemnly
>>>swear to the entire PARIS newsgroup.
>>>
>>>TCB
>>
>
>
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83857 is a reply to message #83852] Mon, 30 April 2007 08:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TCB is currently offline  TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
Senior Member
The 808 and MPC?!? You can't possibly be serious!

TCB

"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>I totally disagree with all who said Auto-tune. It's effect (autotune)just
>like a phase-shifter, chorus, flanger. And,and can save a great vocal performance..
>
>My vote would go to the beat boxes(R8, 808, MPC)
>
>"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>OK, I'm halfway with you.
>>
>>1. Autotune
>>
>>2. Quantizing
>>
>>Sarah
>>
>>
>>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:46326c60$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Not that I disagree... but my vote would be:
>>>
>>> 1. Autotune
>>>
>>> 2. Autotune
>>>
>>> Gantt
>>>
>>>
>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of
>
>>>>that
>>>>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
>>> And
>>>>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch.
>But
>>>>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things
on
>>> everything.
>>>>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast
>for
>>>>many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which
>
>>>>shouldn't
>>>>really need compression anyway. I hear mixes from my friends and the

>>>>percussive
>>>>attack of the notes are just gone. It's mush. And nine times out of ten
>>> I
>>>>say, 'Hey, you're using an LA-2A on the guitars aren't you?' and then
>they
>>>>think I'm some golden ears genius. No, your guitars sound like shit.
>>>>
>>>>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>>>>
>>>>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to
>
>>>>make
>>>>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first.
>I
>>> solemnly
>>>>swear to the entire PARIS newsgroup.
>>>>
>>>>TCB
>>>
>>
>>
>
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83859 is a reply to message #83852] Mon, 30 April 2007 09:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EK Sound is currently offline  EK Sound   CANADA
Messages: 939
Registered: June 2005
Senior Member
My pick (in order)

1) MAC
2) PC

;-)

David.
I was at a clients place over the weekend... he has 3 - 2" machines.
Ahhhh the smell of TAPE in the morning!

LaMont wrote:
> I totally disagree with all who said Auto-tune. It's effect (autotune)just
> like a phase-shifter, chorus, flanger. And,and can save a great vocal performance..
>
> My vote would go to the beat boxes(R8, 808, MPC)
>
> "Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>
>>OK, I'm halfway with you.
>>
>>1. Autotune
>>
>>2. Quantizing
>>
>>Sarah
>>
>>
>>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:46326c60$1@linux...
>>
>>>Not that I disagree... but my vote would be:
>>>
>>>1. Autotune
>>>
>>>2. Autotune
>>>
>>>Gantt
>>>
>>>
>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of
>
>
>>>>that
>>>>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
>>>
>>>And
>>>
>>>>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch.
>
> But
>
>>>>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things on
>>>
>>>everything.
>>>
>>>>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast
>
> for
>
>>>>many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which
>
>
>>>>shouldn't
>>>>really need compression anyway. I hear mixes from my friends and the
>>>>percussive
>>>>attack of the notes are just gone. It's mush. And nine times out of ten
>>>
>>>I
>>>
>>>>say, 'Hey, you're using an LA-2A on the guitars aren't you?' and then
>
> they
>
>>>>think I'm some golden ears genius. No, your guitars sound like shit.
>>>>
>>>>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>>>>
>>>>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to
>
>
>>>>make
>>>>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first.
>
> I
>
>>>solemnly
>>>
>>>>swear to the entire PARIS newsgroup.
>>>>
>>>>TCB
>>>
>>
>
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83862 is a reply to message #83859] Mon, 30 April 2007 10:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aaron Allen is currently offline  Aaron Allen   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
Senior Member
yah man, I do miss that smell.

AA

"EK Sound" <askme@nospam.com> wrote in message news:46361e99$1@linux...
> My pick (in order)
>
> 1) MAC
> 2) PC
>
> ;-)
>
> David.
> I was at a clients place over the weekend... he has 3 - 2" machines. Ahhhh
> the smell of TAPE in the morning!
>
> LaMont wrote:
>> I totally disagree with all who said Auto-tune. It's effect
>> (autotune)just
>> like a phase-shifter, chorus, flanger. And,and can save a great vocal
>> performance..
>>
>> My vote would go to the beat boxes(R8, 808, MPC) "Sarah"
>> <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>
>>>OK, I'm halfway with you.
>>>
>>>1. Autotune
>>>
>>>2. Quantizing
>>>
>>>Sarah
>>>
>>>
>>>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>news:46326c60$1@linux...
>>>
>>>>Not that I disagree... but my vote would be:
>>>>
>>>>1. Autotune
>>>>
>>>>2. Autotune
>>>>
>>>>Gantt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of
>>
>>
>>>>>that
>>>>>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
>>>>
>>>>And
>>>>
>>>>>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch.
>>
>> But
>>
>>>>>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things on
>>>>
>>>>everything.
>>>>
>>>>>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast
>>
>> for
>>
>>>>>many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which
>>
>>
>>>>>shouldn't
>>>>>really need compression anyway. I hear mixes from my friends and the
>>>>>percussive
>>>>>attack of the notes are just gone. It's mush. And nine times out of ten
>>>>
>>>>I
>>>>
>>>>>say, 'Hey, you're using an LA-2A on the guitars aren't you?' and then
>>
>> they
>>
>>>>>think I'm some golden ears genius. No, your guitars sound like shit.
>>>>>
>>>>>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>>>>>
>>>>>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to
>>
>>
>>>>>make
>>>>>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first.
>>
>> I
>>
>>>>solemnly
>>>>
>>>>>swear to the entire PARIS newsgroup.
>>>>>
>>>>>TCB
>>>>
>>>
>>
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83865 is a reply to message #83862] Mon, 30 April 2007 11:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary Flanigan is currently offline  Gary Flanigan
Messages: 181
Registered: June 2006
Senior Member
I'm not sure if this predates the computer age, but I think the music video
did a great deal to damage music. It did this in several ways. First, it
placed a fixed visual image in your brain associated with the song. This
pretty much made it impossible to have the music only and fit it into some
context in your life. Second, it moved the focus to visual content instead
of aural content. To quote one of my older songs:

"Images upon the screen
finish our imagining
first we watched the singers dance
now we watch the dancers sing"
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83869 is a reply to message #83865] Mon, 30 April 2007 11:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deej [4] is currently offline  Deej [4]   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
Senior Member
"Gary Flanigan" <gary_flanigan@ce9.uscourtss.gov> wrote in message
news:46362f3a$1@linux...
>
> I'm not sure if this predates the computer age, but I think the music
> video
> did a great deal to damage music. It did this in several ways. First, it
> placed a fixed visual image in your brain associated with the song. This
> pretty much made it impossible to have the music only and fit it into some
> context in your life. Second, it moved the focus to visual content
> instead
> of aural content. To quote one of my older songs:
>
> "Images upon the screen
> finish our imagining
> first we watched the singers dance
> now we watch the dancers sing"
>
>

Back in the late 70's an Austin musician named Chris Geppert was heading up
a cover band by the name of Christopher Cross. They used to play lots of
proivate parties and played a lot of gigs at local clubs there, most often
at a nightclub called Steamboat 1874 and it's sister club downtown called
Steamboat Springs. One of my good frineds, a guy named Kerry Flynn, was the
owner/manager of Steamboat 1874 and we used to hang with these guys a bit.
Chris was a good songwriter, had a decent voice and was a fairly proficient
guitar player. The band played lots of his original songs at the club gigs.
He ended getting picked up by a label (I forget which one now) and the band
was flown out ot LA and Michael O'Martian produced their first (and only)
album. Lots of major session musicians played on the album and though the
band members were good players and could hold their own, chris was just no
match for guys like Larry Carlton (who played lead on the album). they got
major airplay with songs like Ride Like the Wind and Sailing. There were
lots of other good songs on the album too...not much filler at all. When
they started touring to promote the album, MTV was just getting started and
they did a video. Chris looked a bit like the Pillsbury Doughboy. Chris'
lack of photogeniety, along with the fact that they didn't bring along the
studio guitar slingers to flesh out the musical prowess and give the
audiences a semblance of the signature chops on a lot of the album cuts,
plus pretty much insured that a second album never happened...........but he
did get his 15 minutes and his songs still get airplay on the oldies
stations(mailbox money). Had he looked like David Lee Roth (I think he could
have even developed a "Meatloaf" kinda *ugly rocker* persona if he had been
the type to get into wrteched excess.....he was a family man though) and
fired his band, he would have probably been more successful. He had lots of
good songs in the can back then.

;o)
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83870 is a reply to message #83820] Mon, 30 April 2007 12:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neil is currently offline  Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
Senior Member
"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>OK, I'm halfway with you.
>
>1. Autotune

Hey, I'd have rather heard some properly-applied Autotune the
other day as opposed to the car-horn tritones that supposedly
passed for vocal harmonies on Jan & Dean's "Surf City" when it
came on the Oldies station I was listening to.

>2.) Quantizing

If you had been working on the string arrangement I was fighting
with over the past two weeks, you'd have BEGGED for the ability
to quantize the backing track. I know I was.

Neil
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83872 is a reply to message #83869] Mon, 30 April 2007 12:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deej [4] is currently offline  Deej [4]   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
Senior Member
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message news:46363b5f@linux...
>
> "Gary Flanigan" <gary_flanigan@ce9.uscourtss.gov> wrote in message
> news:46362f3a$1@linux...
>>
>> I'm not sure if this predates the computer age, but I think the music
>> video
>> did a great deal to damage music. It did this in several ways. First,
>> it
>> placed a fixed visual image in your brain associated with the song. This
>> pretty much made it impossible to have the music only and fit it into
>> some
>> context in your life. Second, it moved the focus to visual content
>> instead
>> of aural content. To quote one of my older songs:
>>
>> "Images upon the screen
>> finish our imagining
>> first we watched the singers dance
>> now we watch the dancers sing"
>>
>>
>
> Back in the late 70's an Austin musician named Chris Geppert was heading
> up a cover band by the name of Christopher Cross. They used to play lots
> of proivate parties and played a lot of gigs at local clubs there, most
> often at a nightclub called Steamboat 1874 and it's sister club downtown
> called Steamboat Springs. One of my good frineds, a guy named Kerry Flynn,
> was the owner/manager of Steamboat 1874 and we used to hang with these
> guys a bit. Chris was a good songwriter, had a decent voice and was a
> fairly proficient guitar player. The band played lots of his original
> songs at the club gigs. He ended getting picked up by a label (I forget
> which one now) and the band was flown out ot LA and Michael O'Martian
> produced their first (and only) album. Lots of major session musicians
> played on the album and though the band members were good players and
> could hold their own, chris was just no match for guys like Larry Carlton
> (who played lead on the album). they got major airplay with songs like
> Ride Like the Wind and Sailing. There were lots of other good songs on the
> album too...not much filler at all. When they started touring to promote
> the album, MTV was just getting started and they did a video. Chris looked
> a bit like the Pillsbury Doughboy. Chris' lack of photogeniety, along with
> the fact that they didn't bring along the studio guitar slingers to flesh
> out the musical prowess and give the audiences a semblance of the
> signature chops on a lot of the album cuts, plus pretty much insured that
> a second album never happened...........but he did get his 15 minutes and
> his songs still get airplay on the oldies stations(mailbox money). Had he
> looked like David Lee Roth (I think he could have even developed a
> "Meatloaf" kinda *ugly rocker* persona if he had been the type to get into
> wrteched excess.....he was a family man though) and fired his band, he
> would have probably been more successful. He had lots of good songs in the
> can back then.
>
> ;o)


Hmmm...actually, I now that I've started thinking about this I seem to
recall that that he did cut at least two and maybe three albums and I think
Warner was the label. Everyone was partying so much during the 80's, I don't
remember parts of it....;oP. The first one was the major opportunity for
rock stardom though. He wrote one of the songs in the movie Arthur, or
Tootsie or somesuch kinda' movie as well, IIRC.
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83873 is a reply to message #83870] Mon, 30 April 2007 13:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DC is currently offline  DC
Messages: 722
Registered: July 2005
Senior Member
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:

>Hey, I'd have rather heard some properly-applied Autotune the
>other day as opposed to the car-horn tritones that supposedly
>passed for vocal harmonies on Jan & Dean's "Surf City" when it
>came on the Oldies station I was listening to.


This, as I am sure you know, is a very slippery slope. After all,
that is how they sang it... Would you autotune Buddy Guy's
bent notes? I would not. OTOH, for much commercial and
demo work, there is no intent to sound different, there is
simply incompetence. In those cases, the client and the
end users don't want it to sound they way they actually
performed it, so have at it.

I reach for those sorts of tools as a last resort only, much
preferring to ask them to do another take.

DC
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83874 is a reply to message #83872] Mon, 30 April 2007 13:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dc[3] is currently offline  dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
Senior Member
He was a client of mine when I was at Westlake Audio...

small world.

Nice guy.


DC
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83876 is a reply to message #83870] Mon, 30 April 2007 13:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TCB is currently offline  TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
Senior Member
They weren't the Every Brothers, but I don't remember Jan & Dean being all
_that_ bad. Didn't they do Dead Man's Curve too? I thought the harmonies
on that were pretty good, though it's been years since I've heard it. But
my ear for pitch is only so-so, nowhere near as good as my ear for tempo,
so I usually let the other band members decide of the harmonies are tight
enough. Live, I seem to sing better than in the studio, maybe because I've
been drinking and just belt it out, I've always been pleasantly surprised
when I hear our live vocals and completely horrified when I hear my studio
tracks.

However, I the official tempo Nazi in the band. And the designated guitar
volume Nazi, anti-compression Nazi, less reverb Nazi, and a couple of other
ones that don't come immediately to mind.

TCB

"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>OK, I'm halfway with you.
>>
>>1. Autotune
>
>Hey, I'd have rather heard some properly-applied Autotune the
>other day as opposed to the car-horn tritones that supposedly
>passed for vocal harmonies on Jan & Dean's "Surf City" when it
>came on the Oldies station I was listening to.
>
>>2.) Quantizing
>
>If you had been working on the string arrangement I was fighting
>with over the past two weeks, you'd have BEGGED for the ability
>to quantize the backing track. I know I was.
>
>Neil
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83877 is a reply to message #83876] Mon, 30 April 2007 15:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neil is currently offline  Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
Senior Member
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>They weren't the Every Brothers, but I don't remember Jan & Dean being all
>_that_ bad. Didn't they do Dead Man's Curve too? I thought the harmonies
>on that were pretty good, though it's been years since I've heard it.

I think they did do "Curve", but trust me on this... seek
out "Surf City" if you want to hear the human voice's best
impression of a car horn, ever.

"TooOOo girls for evvvery BooOooOOyyyyy...."

and on a few of the "Ooo-Ooo-EEEee-ooo's", too.

Believe me, if they had had Autotune then, they would've used it.

:)
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83878 is a reply to message #83876] Mon, 30 April 2007 15:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chris Ludwig is currently offline  Chris Ludwig   UNITED STATES
Messages: 868
Registered: May 2006
Senior Member
How about a a need more cowbell Zionist?



TCB wrote:

>
> However, I the official tempo Nazi in the band. And the designated guitar
> volume Nazi, anti-compression Nazi, less reverb Nazi, and a couple of other
> ones that don't come immediately to mind.
>
> TCB
>
> "Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>> "Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>> OK, I'm halfway with you.
>>>
>>> 1. Autotune
>> Hey, I'd have rather heard some properly-applied Autotune the
>> other day as opposed to the car-horn tritones that supposedly
>> passed for vocal harmonies on Jan & Dean's "Surf City" when it
>> came on the Oldies station I was listening to.
>>
>>> 2.) Quantizing
>> If you had been working on the string arrangement I was fighting
>> with over the past two weeks, you'd have BEGGED for the ability
>> to quantize the backing track. I know I was.
>>
>> Neil
>

--
Chris Ludwig

ADK Pro Audio
(859) 635-5762
www.adkproaudio.com
chrisl@adkproaudio.com
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83880 is a reply to message #83820] Mon, 30 April 2007 15:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sarah is currently offline  Sarah   UNITED STATES
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2007
Senior Member
Imagine the Rolling Stones autotuned and quantized. Eeeyooo. It hurts just
thinking about it.

S


"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote in message news:46341cf1$1@linux...
> OK, I'm halfway with you.
>
> 1. Autotune
>
> 2. Quantizing
>
> Sarah
>
>
> "Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:46326c60$1@linux...
>>
>> Not that I disagree... but my vote would be:
>>
>> 1. Autotune
>>
>> 2. Autotune
>>
>> Gantt
>>
>>
>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of
>>>that
>>>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
>> And
>>>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch. But
>>>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things on
>> everything.
>>>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast for
>>>many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which
>>>shouldn't
>>>really need compression anyway. I hear mixes from my friends and the
>>>percussive
>>>attack of the notes are just gone. It's mush. And nine times out of ten
>> I
>>>say, 'Hey, you're using an LA-2A on the guitars aren't you?' and then
>>>they
>>>think I'm some golden ears genius. No, your guitars sound like shit.
>>>
>>>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>>>
>>>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to
>>>make
>>>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first. I
>> solemnly
>>>swear to the entire PARIS newsgroup.
>>>
>>>TCB
>>
>
>
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83881 is a reply to message #83873] Mon, 30 April 2007 16:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
steve the artguy is currently offline  steve the artguy
Messages: 308
Registered: June 2005
Senior Member
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com.> wrote:
>
>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>>Hey, I'd have rather heard some properly-applied Autotune the
>>other day as opposed to the car-horn tritones that supposedly
>>passed for vocal harmonies on Jan & Dean's "Surf City" when it
>>came on the Oldies station I was listening to.
>
>
>This, as I am sure you know, is a very slippery slope. After all,
>that is how they sang it... Would you autotune Buddy Guy's
>bent notes? I would not. OTOH, for much commercial and
>demo work, there is no intent to sound different, there is
>simply incompetence. In those cases, the client and the
>end users don't want it to sound they way they actually
>performed it, so have at it.
>
>I reach for those sorts of tools as a last resort only, much
>preferring to ask them to do another take.
>
>DC
>


I'm with Don on this one. In fact, frightening as they may sometimes be,
I'll take the original vocals of those tunes over whatever autotuned monstrosities
they'd be if they were made today. Maybe I'm a masochist.

I'm thinking in particular of an old tune I had once. "Like Maddy" or "Like
Matty" -- the most astoundingly lame vocal I ever heard on a 45, but oddly
charming in its innocence. Were it to be autotuned, it would be without charm
whatsoever.

I've been doing some work with a lady's band. She can sometimes sing in tune,
depending on how relaxed she is. We did a live gig that was not too bad.
When I heard the CD the engineer made of it, it was astounding. It was in
tune. All flaws had been removed. It was not her band. I feel like it's a
lie. It's like pasting my face on Superman's body.

-steve
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83882 is a reply to message #83877] Mon, 30 April 2007 16:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aaron Allen is currently offline  Aaron Allen   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
Senior Member
Turn mu loose.. in key. Now, there is a scary thought.

AA

"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:4636670b$1@linux...
>
> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>They weren't the Every Brothers, but I don't remember Jan & Dean being all
>>_that_ bad. Didn't they do Dead Man's Curve too? I thought the harmonies
>>on that were pretty good, though it's been years since I've heard it.
>
> I think they did do "Curve", but trust me on this... seek
> out "Surf City" if you want to hear the human voice's best
> impression of a car horn, ever.
>
> "TooOOo girls for evvvery BooOooOOyyyyy...."
>
> and on a few of the "Ooo-Ooo-EEEee-ooo's", too.
>
> Believe me, if they had had Autotune then, they would've used it.
>
> :)
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83884 is a reply to message #83881] Mon, 30 April 2007 17:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neil is currently offline  Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
Senior Member
"steve the artguy" <artguy@somethingorother.net> wrote:
>
>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com.> wrote:
>>
>>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Hey, I'd have rather heard some properly-applied Autotune the
>>>other day as opposed to the car-horn tritones that supposedly
>>>passed for vocal harmonies on Jan & Dean's "Surf City" when it
>>>came on the Oldies station I was listening to.
>>
>>
>>This, as I am sure you know, is a very slippery slope. After all,
>>that is how they sang it... Would you autotune Buddy Guy's
>>bent notes? I would not. OTOH, for much commercial and
>>demo work, there is no intent to sound different, there is
>>simply incompetence. In those cases, the client and the
>>end users don't want it to sound they way they actually
>>performed it, so have at it.
>>
>>I reach for those sorts of tools as a last resort only, much
>>preferring to ask them to do another take.
>>
>>DC
>>
>
>
>I'm with Don on this one. In fact, frightening as they may sometimes be,
>I'll take the original vocals of those tunes over whatever autotuned monstrosities
>they'd be if they were made today. Maybe I'm a masochist.
>
>I'm thinking in particular of an old tune I had once. "Like Maddy" or "Like
>Matty" -- the most astoundingly lame vocal I ever heard on a 45, but oddly
>charming in its innocence. Were it to be autotuned, it would be without
charm
>whatsoever.
>
>I've been doing some work with a lady's band. She can sometimes sing in
tune,
>depending on how relaxed she is. We did a live gig that was not too bad.
>When I heard the CD the engineer made of it, it was astounding. It was in
>tune. All flaws had been removed. It was not her band. I feel like it's
a
>lie. It's like pasting my face on Superman's body.

I think there's a line - a fine one perhaps, but there's
definitely a line. On one hand, if you're such a purist that
any alteration or improvement to the performance is like
pasting your face on Superman's body, then I would expect you
to use an upright bass, not one of them newfangled plug-in-
eel-lectric ones (after all, the P-bass was invented to improve
intonation vs. fretless uprights, wannit?), and I would also
expect that if you DO record something, it would only be stereo
mic'ed, whether it's studio or live - I mean why would a purist
want to put different things on different tracks in order to
process even in the most limited means, like to adjust the
relative volume level between each instrument... that's not how
the performance happened, right?

Personally, I think the line an be crossed for any type of
correction... someone explain to me the difference between
Autotuning something and making a singer do seventy-five takes
each of the same phrase they have trouble with in every chorus?
The fact that "they" actually (finally) sang it? How many takes
crosses the line? Anyone ever record a sax player trying to
Coltrane his way through a 16-bar solo, only to have him do
about 20 punches to get it right? Where does THAT form of
correction cross the line?

Neil
Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83885 is a reply to message #83884] Mon, 30 April 2007 17:36 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
dc[3] is currently offline  dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
Senior Member
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:

>Personally, I think the line an be crossed for any type of
>correction... someone explain to me the difference between
>Autotuning something and making a singer do seventy-five takes
>each of the same phrase they have trouble with in every chorus?
>The fact that "they" actually (finally) sang it? How many takes
>crosses the line? Anyone ever record a sax player trying to
>Coltrane his way through a 16-bar solo, only to have him do
>about 20 punches to get it right? Where does THAT form of
>correction cross the line?

For me, it crosses the line at 10 takes. Everything after that
is dookie...

DC
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