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| Re: Would you do it again? [message #108539 is a reply to message #108535] |
Thu, 05 February 2015 23:02   |
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I'd run my laptop with all the modern stuff like Ableton and Logic Pro X and use PARIS on a separate computer for those occasions where I'm recording any multitrack audio and/or acoustic sessions. Most of the time PARIS would just be acting as the studio mainframe, a mixer with realtime effects, without using its recording functionality. Best of both worlds. I used to leave PARIS running for months at a time like that.
"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
[Updated on: Thu, 05 February 2015 23:02] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Would you do it again? [message #108542 is a reply to message #108541] |
Fri, 06 February 2015 00:18 |
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My laptop's a MacBook Pro so it's not an option for me but yes, it'd be about the same thing. PARIS is very resource lean too, pretty much all of its DSP is handled by the EDS cards, it was designed to run happily on the resources of 1997 vintage computers.
"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
[Updated on: Fri, 06 February 2015 00:19] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Would you do it again? [message #108545 is a reply to message #108544] |
Fri, 06 February 2015 12:46 |
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I'm not a great example right now because I haven't recorded or produced an album for a couple of years and the next album I do will be of my own work; I'm back getting my degree in composition, and my current work is in electronic music compositions using specialized software (Supercollider, Metasynth, Max4Live, PaulStretch) that's already set up on my laptop for live use.
I can't imagine using PARIS as my sole mixing/editing platform for that - that would rob me of access to the fifteen years of amazing technological advances since its creation, advances which have had a deep impact on our musical language. IMO PARIS is best for what it still does better than any pure software solution - a fat, warm, effectively-zero-latency studio mainframe which offers far more flexibility than a mixer, and importantly can be had for pennies.
But when I last recorded a jazz trio a couple of years back it was absolutely perfect all by itself - far better than it would have been with my Babyface and external converters - and will be next time too.
"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
[Updated on: Fri, 06 February 2015 12:49] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Would you do it again? [message #108546 is a reply to message #108545] |
Fri, 06 February 2015 14:27 |
n0samples
Messages: 50
Registered: February 2015
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Nice. I intend on getting kyma, continuun, puredata/max running on my iMac eventually for that type of sound work.
This rig would have to be successfully integrated into the main system where I sequence and track using VSTi's and a few hardware synths on reaper/ableton.
Once the sequence is done, I would render, pre-mix/edit then mix on Paris using only the fx.
My interface is RME Babyface, which I can connect via ADAT to the MEC. The Mec would be used to record the synths.
That's what I'm considering right now.
Either that or getting a RME Fireface UC to track synths and stay in reaper the whole time.
I want to avoid glitches and workarounds so if I do get Paris I want to run it in the most stable way possible.
I see guys getting out of it in old threads and I assume hardware this old is probably not all there.
Paying $5,000 back in 1997 dollars probably has a lot to do with why some still use it.
[Updated on: Fri, 06 February 2015 14:29] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Would you do it again? [message #108548 is a reply to message #108546] |
Fri, 06 February 2015 15:02 |
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The hardware was seriously "over-engineered" - it's built like a tank and rarely fails, and on the rare occasions it does it's usually to die completely, so even at this age dodgy hardware is a rare and minor issue. What PARIS provides is a depth and dimensionality that can be duplicated in other DAWs but is much harder work. What you're talking about is a great and popular compromise, to stream separate ADAT channels into PARIS so it serves as a summing bus, picking up the dimensionality ITB mixes often struggle to achieve.
"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
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| Re: Would you do it again? [message #108554 is a reply to message #108550] |
Sat, 07 February 2015 01:24 |
Doug Wellington
Messages: 251
Registered: June 2005
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
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| n0samples wrote on Fri, 06 February 2015 21:33 | Mixing in Paris not worth the effort Doug?
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Well, to be honest, when I'm doing the Live/Softsynth thing, it's usually going to end up as an MP3 in those moronic Beats headphones, so no, absolutely not worth the effort. Crank out the tracks without wasting any time on something that nobody will notice...
Now, if I'm working on an orchestral thing or doing some film scoring, or, as I said, vocals or real instruments, or when I need backing tracks for performance, then PARIS is *definitely* my go-to tool.
Regards,
Doug
http://www.parisfaqs.com
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| Re: Would you do it again? [message #108555 is a reply to message #108552] |
Sat, 07 February 2015 06:33 |
n0samples
Messages: 50
Registered: February 2015
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| Kim W. wrote on Sat, 07 February 2015 03:10 | FWIW, with Mike's new drivers, the system is rock solid under WIN7 64 bit. You must edit the config file to disable the (useless) midi implementation, though.
The only instability during mixing comes when using some VST plugins that don't play nice with Paris. (Speakerphone is one of these, but if you use a DX wrapper, it does work.) Still pays to save often.
Absolutely no issues if using only EDS effects.
Cheers,
Kim.
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The only VST I could see myself using is a reverb, maybe nebula (or a convolution vst) and ARC Room correction on the master bus.
What are the odds I could get away with those two?
[Updated on: Sat, 07 February 2015 06:34] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Would you do it again? [message #108557 is a reply to message #108555] |
Sat, 07 February 2015 08:18 |
Kim W.
Messages: 189
Registered: January 2010
Location: Australia
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Senior Member |
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Ah. You've hit upon one of the biggest limitations of the whole Paris architecture right there.
Paris started life as a discrete 16 track system, with its own DSP based effects. It was expandable to 32, 48, 64 etc by adding additional EDS cards. (Thereby adding "submixes"). VST/DX support came along later, but only on the channel inserts. (Stereo instances could be strapped across two adjacent tracks within each 16 track "submix"). Unfortunately, it is not possible to have a native reverb as a send effect on each submix, let alone across the master bus. Only the EDS DSP reverbs are possible within each 16 track submix, but not across submixes.
A hardware reverb could be used, as the send busses could be routed to an external device, and back in, provided you have additional outputs in your MEC(S).
In practice I have found the available EDS effects to be more than adequate for my purposes. (In particular Mike's Hall and Plate reverbs... they sound gorgeous..)
I have produced some great sounding albums using PARIS alone, but these have consisted of real bands, with real instruments.
I'm not sure that PARIS is for you, however. By the sound of it, you may become frustrated by the workarounds necessary.
I'm sure there will be others that chime in about their experiences, good and bad.
Cheers,
Kim.
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| Re: Would you do it again? [message #108570 is a reply to message #108567] |
Thu, 12 February 2015 08:46 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
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Senior Member |
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If I could I would use both. I would Compose, track, edit and use plugins with a modern DAW and then mix down in Paris. Why not use the best of both worlds? If my budget was limited I would go Paris for what I do.
The term ITB is somewhat ambiguous and confusing. I under stand the way n0sample was using the term ITB to differentiate between Paris and other DAWs. I'll just say in general terms my understanding of ITB would be the final summing and mixing in a computer as opposed to summing and mixing down with a mixer which would be OTB, Outside The Box.
James
[Updated on: Tue, 17 February 2015 07:14] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Would you do it again? [message #108957 is a reply to message #108535] |
Mon, 12 October 2015 07:02 |
mikeaudet
Messages: 477
Registered: February 2009
Location: Canada
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I've been thinking a lot about this thread.
If I were staring out again, I would still want near zero latency. That leaves Apollo, Pro Tools HD, or PARIS.
A new Pro Tools system or Apollo are extremely expensive. I'd much rather buy a used PARIS system and spend the savings on Neve style mic pres, a u87 or TLM 67, and/or a warm audio 1176 clone.
I know may people are raving about the new UAD2 effects in Apollo, but I'm not really ready to trust them. I spent $300 on the UAD1 1073 EQ thinking it would sound like a 1073. Finding out later that they didn't emulate any of the transformers or tubes in the hardware they were modelling was an incredible let down.
Maybe they have nailed it now, but they said they had nailed it then. I can't help wonder what they'll say they didn't emulate this time when they release the UAD 3 with all new plugins.
I'd much rather use real hardware. It's guaranteed to sound like real hardware, and it holds its value. What's my UAD 1 1073 plugin worth now? Nothing.
You can get a Roland SRV 2000 for $200. A PCM 91 for $500. We live in fantastic times. If you decide you don't like one of them, you can sell it for what you paid for it.
Something people don't talk a lot about with PARIS is the converters. They sound beautiful. I hear the space that everything was recorded in when I listen to tracks in PARIS. On the other converters I've tried, which doesn't include an RME babyface, that sense of space isn't there.
Plus, PARIS allows lots of I/O (with almost no latency), so patching in external hardware is a breeze.
The only thing any other system has over PARIS is portability. But, there are lots of cheap USB interfaces that one can use to compliment PARIS if carting around an expansion chassis and an MEC is an issue.
If I were starting out, I would buy a used PARIS system and spend the left over cash on real hardware, mics, room treatment, etc.
All the best,
Mike
[Updated on: Mon, 12 October 2015 07:03] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Would you do it again? [message #108958 is a reply to message #108957] |
Mon, 12 October 2015 11:38 |
JeffH
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2007
Location: Wamic, OR
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Senior Member |
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I'm in agreement on your approach Mike. As we have talked, I am bringing back up the Paris system and looking forward to getting back into it workflow wise. I am running an Apollo in Pro tools and I can get good sound out of it, but I just like the Paris process better, even after being only pro tools 5 years. The flex tracks, never thinking about buffers, being able to "spank it like a rented donkey" and not having to fuss about gain staging and levels. It felt more like sitting down at a console, punch record on the tape deck, and letting the creativity fly.
Some of the material I am recording now requires midi/sample/loop stuff (don't even get me started about loops and pro tools) as well as melodyne correction, and latency compensation. If I didn't need that, all of my recording would likely be in Paris.
Have an upcoming project of an extended "quasi live" improv duet of violinists. The project is begging for, and will be recorded with, the Paris "analog" sound.
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| Re: Would you do it again? [message #108959 is a reply to message #108958] |
Mon, 12 October 2015 11:53 |
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If you've got the luxury of working in a venue where live recordings are occasionally made - a 16 or 32 i/o PARIS setup permanently installed in the club might make a *killer* FOH system. Compressors, FX, EQ, routing out the wazoo - plus the ability to just hit "record" whenever you want... Haven't gone this route yet; I did recommend it for a local jazz club (Cory Weeds' Jazz Cellar) but they went with the Mackie 1608. But it's still in the back of my mind as something I'd love to plan out and execute.
"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
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| Re: Would you do it again? [message #108960 is a reply to message #108959] |
Mon, 12 October 2015 12:08 |
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I've often mused that the majority of what has been shovelled into DAWs since 2001 - the majority of additions that PARIS doesn't have - are really turd-polishing tools. I don't want to be dismissive of some of the cool features but many are ways of tuning vocalists that can't sing in tune, quantizing drummers that can't play in time, adding loops or canned parts because the band can't afford real percussion or strings.
PARIS is a killer DAW for musicians that have invested a lot of time and money in getting good sounds and can actually play their instruments.
(Does that statement make me an elitist or a musical snob? I don't want to be that, but it's hard to escape that conclusion)
"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
[Updated on: Mon, 12 October 2015 12:10] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Would you do it again? [message #108967 is a reply to message #108966] |
Tue, 13 October 2015 01:56 |
dnafe
Messages: 390
Registered: February 2009
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Senior Member |
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Me - I'd get a used RADAR V with a RME 9652 card for computer interface and Reaper
Second choice would be a Paris rig in lieu of RADAR and with Mike's ASIO drivers (which I have yet to try) this could easily become my first choice
The Reaper environment is just so much more...ah...fluid. Work flow, track creation and layout, Aux and Send assignment and routing and even editing are vastly superior to PARIS. No going back for me
That said now the Mike's ASIO drivers appear ready for prime time I'll be grabbing them and seeing how Reaper interfaces with PARIS
Might be a win win
[Updated on: Tue, 13 October 2015 01:57] Report message to a moderator |
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- but it's not about doing it full time (so few folks do nowadays) as much as it is about loving the music and taking it seriously. I'm going to guess that as a discerning PARIS user you're that too 
PRACTICE !! Most people want to be instant on musicians. Flip a switch, call up a preset and everyone thinks they are a guitar player. PRACTICE before you record. I don't care how many toys you have or how good of an editor you are, A solo never sounds as good as when it is laid down correctly all the way through. This though takes PRACTICE ! I am a classical guitar major in college, I have now been playing for almost 52 years, and I still practice 5 times a week if I am not playing out much that week ! All that protools quantatizing and autotune, Listen and learn how to sing in tune. How ? Tape and PRACTUCE ! OK wow that was a lot of steam, but I really feel this way. This is why I don't teach. See you guys, PARIS ROCKS ! Now go home and................ PRACTICE !! 
