Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » hydrogen
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| Re: hydrogen [message #84790 is a reply to message #84788] |
Fri, 18 May 2007 15:40   |
Tom Bruhl
Messages: 1368
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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I'm considering an attachment that will give 30% better fuel mileage
on almost any vehicle. $500 installed. Refill with distilled water =
every
300-400 miles. $3.00/gallon is down to $2.00/gal.. It gets 40% out
of a diesel. I've seen it and it works. There are some real pros on=20
this system. =20
The hydrogen is burned at such a fast rate the valves don't
get oxidation damage. It isn't in mass production but I might get one =
for my
older 94 Chevy 1500 to see how it works. Simple install, fused, =
amperage
meter, hose to the carb/fuel injector and a small tank that seems
smaller than a bread box. Might be tight under the hood of some cars. =20
It is easily removed for inspections. They won't pass because the =
emissions=20
are so low it gives a false reading!!! Exhaust is cleaner too.
It can be removed and installed in another vehicle easily. Only one =
install
was a problem for the designer so far out of 10+. The computer in the =
Ford van=20
would make the fuel mixture richer to compensate for the changes the =
hydrogen box
created. Turned out to COST him 30% in gas mileage! The next step is =
to
hack the car computers to adapt for this inexpensive device. He's =
working
on that now.
Just a consideration.
Tom
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:464e2664$1@linux...
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Bush and his oil buddies won't like this!
>
>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18700750/
Oh yeah, and that's why both Bushe brothers continually=20
veto the building of new oil platforms...
And this guy has a long way to go before his idea is credible.
Blaming it on egos is a bad start....
Money to finance his research would not be hard to find if it
shows real promise.
He has not spoken of how much hydrogen his device puts out,
and remember, it is only 40% as powerful as gasoline per volume
so your car will lose a lot of its power. Remember also, this
weaker car now has to pull you and your family up the hill to
Las Vegas... Can it produce enough hydrogen on demand to pull
this off?
What is the cost per mile of gallium and aluminum refills?
How far does the tank take you without a refill?
So far, I am not impressed.
DC
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
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<STYLE></STYLE>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm considering an attachment that will =
give 30%=20
better fuel mileage</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>on almost any vehicle. $500 =
installed. =20
Refill with distilled water every</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>300-400 miles. $3.00/gallon is =
down to=20
$2.00/gal.. It gets 40% out</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>of a diesel. I've seen it and it =
works. =20
There are some real pros on </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>this system. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The hydrogen is burned at such a fast =
rate the=20
valves don't</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>get oxidation damage. It =
isn't in mass=20
production but I might get one for my</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>older 94 Chevy 1500 to see how it =
works. =20
Simple install, fused, amperage</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>meter, hose to the carb/fuel injector =
and=20
a small tank that seems</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>smaller than a bread box. Might =
be tight=20
under the </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>hood of some cars. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It is easily removed for =
inspections. They=20
won't pass because </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the emissions =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>are so low it gives a false=20
reading!!! Exhaust is cleaner too.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It can be removed and installed in =
another vehicle=20
easily. Only one install</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>was a problem for the designer so far =
out of=20
10+. The computer in the Ford van </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>would make </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>the fuel=20
mixture richer to compensate for the changes the hydrogen =
box</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>created. Turned out to COST =
him 30% in=20
gas mileage! The next step is to</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>hack the car computers to adapt for =
this=20
inexpensive device. He's working</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>on that now.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Just a consideration.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"DC" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:dc@spammersinhell.com">dc@spammersinhell.com</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:464e2664$1@linux">news:464e2664$1@linux</A>...</DIV><BR>"Jam=
es =20
McCloskey" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:excelsm@hotmail.com">excelsm@hotmail.com</A>>=20
wrote:<BR>><BR>>Bush and his oil buddies won't like=20
this!<BR>><BR>>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18700750/<BR><BR>Oh =
yeah, and=20
that's why both Bushe brothers continually <BR>veto the building of =
new oil=20
platforms...<BR><BR><BR>And this guy has a long way to go before his =
idea is=20
credible.<BR>Blaming it on egos is a bad start....<BR>Money to finance =
his=20
research would not be hard to find if it<BR>shows real =
promise.<BR><BR>He has=20
not spoken of how much hydrogen his device puts out,<BR>and remember, =
it is=20
only 40% as powerful as gasoline per volume<BR>so your car will lose a =
lot of=20
its power. Remember also, this<BR>weaker car now has to =
pull you=20
and your family up the hill to<BR>Las Vegas... Can it produce =
enough=20
hydrogen on demand to pull<BR>this off?<BR><BR>What is the cost per =
mile of=20
gallium and aluminum refills?<BR><BR>How far does the tank take you =
without a=20
refill?<BR><BR>So far, I am not =
impressed.<BR><BR>DC<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, =
and=20
you?<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/refer=
..html</A> </FONT></DIV></BODY ></HTML>
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| Re: hydrogen [message #84791 is a reply to message #84789] |
Fri, 18 May 2007 15:53 |
steve
Messages: 3
Registered: February 2006
|
Junior Member |
|
|
seems to me he's just passing the electricity buck.
The idea is to get power to your car's wheels. His plan is to use aluminum/gallium
to split water. And how does he get the aluminum/gallium back after it's
used? Electricity. (I seem to remember reading that one of the biggest users
of electricity in the country is the aluminum industry. Lots of power needed
to electrolize it out of ore.)
The same electricity that is used to split the alulminum oxide back to aluminum
could just as easily be used to split water directly into hydrogen and oxygen.
He's just moved the process from a most likely more efficient power plant
right into a 350 pound pile of rocks in your car. Two conversions instead
of one, undoubtedly more inefficient, to save the trouble of creating a hydrogen
infrastructure. Maybe good. Maybe not.
The other problem with hydrogen, namely it's tendency to leak right through
seals and hoses, would still remain.
Very interesting story. I wish I could get enthused about it...
-steve
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>I don't know about climbing hills, but I do know the city of Lansing Mi.
has
>been using hydrogen powered buses and trucks since 1975.
>
>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>
>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Bush and his oil buddies won't like this!
>>>
>>>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18700750/
>>
>>Oh yeah, and that's why both Bushe brothers continually
>>veto the building of new oil platforms...
>>
>>
>>And this guy has a long way to go before his idea is credible.
>>Blaming it on egos is a bad start....
>>shows real promise.
>>
>>He has not spoken of how much hydrogen his device puts out,
>>and remember, it is only 40% as powerful as gasoline per volume
>>so your car will lose a lot of its power. Remember also, this
>>weaker car now has to pull you and your family up the hill to
>>Las Vegas... Can it produce enough hydrogen on demand to pull
>>this off?
>>
>>What is the cost per mile of gallium and aluminum refills?
>>
>>How far does the tank take you without a refill?
>>
>>So far, I am not impressed.
>>
>>DC
>>
>>
>
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| Re: hydrogen [message #84794 is a reply to message #84791] |
Fri, 18 May 2007 19:44 |
Bill L
Messages: 766
Registered: August 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I was getting all excited, but now i see that I'm naive to even hope
that a smart scientist can dream up a way to get hydrogen out of water
economically.
Hey, did you guys see the Tesla Motors car. It's frickin' awesome:
http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1
0-60 in 4 seconds. Instant torque. I want one.
steve wrote:
> seems to me he's just passing the electricity buck.
>
> The idea is to get power to your car's wheels. His plan is to use aluminum/gallium
> to split water. And how does he get the aluminum/gallium back after it's
> used? Electricity. (I seem to remember reading that one of the biggest users
> of electricity in the country is the aluminum industry. Lots of power needed
> to electrolize it out of ore.)
>
> The same electricity that is used to split the alulminum oxide back to aluminum
> could just as easily be used to split water directly into hydrogen and oxygen.
> He's just moved the process from a most likely more efficient power plant
> right into a 350 pound pile of rocks in your car. Two conversions instead
> of one, undoubtedly more inefficient, to save the trouble of creating a hydrogen
> infrastructure. Maybe good. Maybe not.
>
> The other problem with hydrogen, namely it's tendency to leak right through
> seals and hoses, would still remain.
>
> Very interesting story. I wish I could get enthused about it...
>
> -steve
>
>
>
> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> I don't know about climbing hills, but I do know the city of Lansing Mi.
> has
>> been using hydrogen powered buses and trucks since 1975.
>>
>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Bush and his oil buddies won't like this!
>>>>
>>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18700750/
>>> Oh yeah, and that's why both Bushe brothers continually
>>> veto the building of new oil platforms...
>>>
>>>
>>> And this guy has a long way to go before his idea is credible.
>>> Blaming it on egos is a bad start....
>>> shows real promise.
>>>
>>> He has not spoken of how much hydrogen his device puts out,
>>> and remember, it is only 40% as powerful as gasoline per volume
>>> so your car will lose a lot of its power. Remember also, this
>>> weaker car now has to pull you and your family up the hill to
>>> Las Vegas... Can it produce enough hydrogen on demand to pull
>>> this off?
>>>
>>> What is the cost per mile of gallium and aluminum refills?
>>>
>>> How far does the tank take you without a refill?
>>>
>>> So far, I am not impressed.
>>>
>>> DC
>>>
>>>
>
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| Re: hydrogen [message #84796 is a reply to message #84794] |
Fri, 18 May 2007 21:26 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
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|
At a base price of $92k ( fully loaded $101,425), they've got a ways to go
to sell many of them, even with all the incentives. Still I like where it's
headed and that sure is a sharp looking 'geek' ride. 248 Peak HP ain't bad,
and at over 200 ft/lbs of torque flatlines from 0 to 6000+ RPM, it would
leave a few black marks on the pavement I'm thinking.
AA
"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:464e6609@linux...
>I was getting all excited, but now i see that I'm naive to even hope that a
>smart scientist can dream up a way to get hydrogen out of water
>economically.
>
> Hey, did you guys see the Tesla Motors car. It's frickin' awesome:
> http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1
>
> 0-60 in 4 seconds. Instant torque. I want one.
>
>
>
> steve wrote:
>> seems to me he's just passing the electricity buck.
>>
>> The idea is to get power to your car's wheels. His plan is to use
>> aluminum/gallium
>> to split water. And how does he get the aluminum/gallium back after it's
>> used? Electricity. (I seem to remember reading that one of the biggest
>> users
>> of electricity in the country is the aluminum industry. Lots of power
>> needed
>> to electrolize it out of ore.)
>>
>> The same electricity that is used to split the alulminum oxide back to
>> aluminum
>> could just as easily be used to split water directly into hydrogen and
>> oxygen.
>> He's just moved the process from a most likely more efficient power plant
>> right into a 350 pound pile of rocks in your car. Two conversions instead
>> of one, undoubtedly more inefficient, to save the trouble of creating a
>> hydrogen
>> infrastructure. Maybe good. Maybe not.
>>
>> The other problem with hydrogen, namely it's tendency to leak right
>> through
>> seals and hoses, would still remain.
>>
>> Very interesting story. I wish I could get enthused about it...
>>
>> -steve
>>
>>
>>
>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> I don't know about climbing hills, but I do know the city of Lansing Mi.
>> has
>>> been using hydrogen powered buses and trucks since 1975.
>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Bush and his oil buddies won't like this!
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18700750/
>>>> Oh yeah, and that's why both Bushe brothers continually veto the
>>>> building of new oil platforms...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And this guy has a long way to go before his idea is credible.
>>>> Blaming it on egos is a bad start....
>>>> shows real promise.
>>>>
>>>> He has not spoken of how much hydrogen his device puts out,
>>>> and remember, it is only 40% as powerful as gasoline per volume
>>>> so your car will lose a lot of its power. Remember also, this
>>>> weaker car now has to pull you and your family up the hill to
>>>> Las Vegas... Can it produce enough hydrogen on demand to pull
>>>> this off?
>>>>
>>>> What is the cost per mile of gallium and aluminum refills?
>>>>
>>>> How far does the tank take you without a refill?
>>>>
>>>> So far, I am not impressed.
>>>>
>>>> DC
>>>>
>>>>
>>
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| Re: hydrogen [message #84799 is a reply to message #84790] |
Fri, 18 May 2007 22:48 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Tom, let us know more about this.
James
"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>I'm considering an attachment that will give 30% better fuel mileage
>on almost any vehicle. $500 installed. Refill with distilled water =
>every
>300-400 miles. $3.00/gallon is down to $2.00/gal.. It gets 40% out
>of a diesel. I've seen it and it works. There are some real pros on=20
>this system. =20
>
>The hydrogen is burned at such a fast rate the valves don't
>get oxidation damage. It isn't in mass production but I might get one =
>for my
>older 94 Chevy 1500 to see how it works. Simple install, fused, =
>amperage
>meter, hose to the carb/fuel injector and a small tank that seems
>smaller than a bread box. Might be tight under the hood of some cars. =20
>It is easily removed for inspections. They won't pass because the =
>emissions=20
>are so low it gives a false reading!!! Exhaust is cleaner too.
>
>It can be removed and installed in another vehicle easily. Only one =
>install
>was a problem for the designer so far out of 10+. The computer in the =
>Ford van=20
>would make the fuel mixture richer to compensate for the changes the =
>hydrogen box
>created. Turned out to COST him 30% in gas mileage! The next step is =
>to
>hack the car computers to adapt for this inexpensive device. He's =
>working
>on that now.
>
>Just a consideration.
>Tom
> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:464e2664$1@linux...
>
> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >Bush and his oil buddies won't like this!
> >
> >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18700750/
>
> Oh yeah, and that's why both Bushe brothers continually=20
> veto the building of new oil platforms...
>
>
> And this guy has a long way to go before his idea is credible.
> Blaming it on egos is a bad start....
> Money to finance his research would not be hard to find if it
> shows real promise.
>
> He has not spoken of how much hydrogen his device puts out,
> and remember, it is only 40% as powerful as gasoline per volume
> so your car will lose a lot of its power. Remember also, this
> weaker car now has to pull you and your family up the hill to
> Las Vegas... Can it produce enough hydrogen on demand to pull
> this off?
>
> What is the cost per mile of gallium and aluminum refills?
>
> How far does the tank take you without a refill?
>
> So far, I am not impressed.
>
> DC
>
>
>
>
>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
>http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm considering an attachment that will
=
>give 30%=20
>better fuel mileage</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>on almost any vehicle. $500 =
>installed. =20
>Refill with distilled water every</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>300-400 miles. $3.00/gallon is =
>down to=20
>$2.00/gal.. It gets 40% out</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>of a diesel. I've seen it and it =
>works. =20
>There are some real pros on </FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>this system. </FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The hydrogen is burned at such a fast =
>rate the=20
>valves don't</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>get oxidation damage. It =
>isn't in mass=20
>production but I might get one for my</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>older 94 Chevy 1500 to see how it =
>works. =20
>Simple install, fused, amperage</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>meter, hose to the carb/fuel injector =
>and=20
>a small tank that seems</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>smaller than a bread box. Might =
>be tight=20
>under the </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>hood of some cars. =
></FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It is easily removed for =
>inspections. They=20
>won't pass because </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the emissions =
></FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>are so low it gives a false=20
>reading!!! Exhaust is cleaner too.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It can be removed and installed in =
>another vehicle=20
>easily. Only one install</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>was a problem for the designer so far =
>out of=20
>10+. The computer in the Ford van </FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>would make </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
>size=3D2>the fuel=20
>mixture richer to compensate for the changes the hydrogen =
>box</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>created. Turned out to COST =
>him 30% in=20
>gas mileage! The next step is to</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>hack the car computers to adapt for =
>this=20
>inexpensive device. He's working</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>on that now.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Just a consideration.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
><BLOCKQUOTE=20
>style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV>"DC" <<A=20
> href=3D"mailto:dc@spammersinhell.com">dc@spammersinhell.com</A>> =
>wrote in=20
> message <A=20
> =
>href=3D"news:464e2664$1@linux">news:464e2664$1@linux</A>...</DIV><BR>"Jam=
>es =20
> McCloskey" <<A=20
> href=3D"mailto:excelsm@hotmail.com">excelsm@hotmail.com</A>>=20
> wrote:<BR>><BR>>Bush and his oil buddies won't like=20
> this!<BR>><BR>>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18700750/<BR><BR>Oh =
>yeah, and=20
> that's why both Bushe brothers continually <BR>veto the building of =
>new oil=20
> platforms...<BR><BR><BR>And this guy has a long way to go before his =
>idea is=20
> credible.<BR>Blaming it on egos is a bad start....<BR>Money to finance
=
>his=20
> research would not be hard to find if it<BR>shows real =
>promise.<BR><BR>He has=20
> not spoken of how much hydrogen his device puts out,<BR>and remember,
=
>it is=20
> only 40% as powerful as gasoline per volume<BR>so your car will lose a
=
>lot of=20
> its power. Remember also, this<BR>weaker car now has to =
>pull you=20
> and your family up the hill to<BR>Las Vegas... Can it produce =
>enough=20
> hydrogen on demand to pull<BR>this off?<BR><BR>What is the cost per =
>mile of=20
> gallium and aluminum refills?<BR><BR>How far does the tank take you =
>without a=20
> refill?<BR><BR>So far, I am not =
>impressed.<BR><BR>DC<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
><DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, =
>and=20
>you?<BR><A=20
>href=3D"http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/refer=
>.html</A> </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
>
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| Re: hydrogen [message #84803 is a reply to message #84799] |
Sat, 19 May 2007 00:02 |
Tom Bruhl
Messages: 1368
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
James,
Actually the guy who is doing this is not a mechanic
he's my tech for the studio/road gear. He fixed my Genelec 1037s
when Genelec wouldn't, DBX 161 where parts were unavailable
and Telefunken V72 with intermittent problems.
He wants to market this so is keeping it close to the vest.
I've seen his '96 V8 Suburban running very smoothly. He gained
almost exactly 30% using this contraption (3rd stage of development).
He is engaging a few select mechanics to give it a good local run first.
He might put some details on a website in the near future. He has a
picture of all the components that I asked for a copy of but he wouldn't =
release it to me. It's remarkably simple except for the one natural =
ingredient
he adds to the distilled water to help produce the hydrogen. He claims =
that only
distilled water need be added and that the small amount of this other =
ingredient
is permanent and should never need to be added again. Silly simple.
I'm not much on the technology involved but the savings and pollution
reduction is worth it's weight in gold/gas. I would more than regain =
the $500=20
investment within the first twelve months given the fuel prices of =
$3/gal or=20
more.
I most concerned with the protection of the engine. He claims it's =
safe.
If for any reason it should fail it isn't needed anyway in an emergency =
on the road. =20
Flip the switch he installs on the dash and go on your way. He said it =
can be a=20
volatile situation but he has made it completely safe by using the =
ingredient (I'll get=20
the name again next time I speak with him) he has chosen.
This is right now "it works" technology. It's not expensive. Perfect.
Tom
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message =
news:464e8faf$1@linux...
Tom, let us know more about this.
James
"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>I'm considering an attachment that will give 30% better fuel mileage
>on almost any vehicle. $500 installed. Refill with distilled water =
=3D
>every
>300-400 miles. $3.00/gallon is down to $2.00/gal.. It gets 40% out
>of a diesel. I've seen it and it works. There are some real pros =
on=3D20
>this system. =3D20
>
>The hydrogen is burned at such a fast rate the valves don't
>get oxidation damage. It isn't in mass production but I might get =
one =3D
>for my
>older 94 Chevy 1500 to see how it works. Simple install, fused, =3D
>amperage
>meter, hose to the carb/fuel injector and a small tank that seems
>smaller than a bread box. Might be tight under the hood of some =
cars. =3D20
>It is easily removed for inspections. They won't pass because the =
=3D
>emissions=3D20
>are so low it gives a false reading!!! Exhaust is cleaner too.
>
>It can be removed and installed in another vehicle easily. Only one =
=3D
>install
>was a problem for the designer so far out of 10+. The computer in =
the =3D
>Ford van=3D20
>would make the fuel mixture richer to compensate for the changes the =
=3D
>hydrogen box
>created. Turned out to COST him 30% in gas mileage! The next step =
is =3D
>to
>hack the car computers to adapt for this inexpensive device. He's =
=3D
>working
>on that now.
>
>Just a consideration.
>Tom
> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message =
news:464e2664$1@linux...
>
> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >Bush and his oil buddies won't like this!
> >
> >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18700750/
>
> Oh yeah, and that's why both Bushe brothers continually=3D20
> veto the building of new oil platforms...
>
>
> And this guy has a long way to go before his idea is credible.
> Blaming it on egos is a bad start....
> Money to finance his research would not be hard to find if it
> shows real promise.
>
> He has not spoken of how much hydrogen his device puts out,
> and remember, it is only 40% as powerful as gasoline per volume
> so your car will lose a lot of its power. Remember also, this
> weaker car now has to pull you and your family up the hill to
> Las Vegas... Can it produce enough hydrogen on demand to pull
> this off?
>
> What is the cost per mile of gallium and aluminum refills?
>
> How far does the tank take you without a refill?
>
> So far, I am not impressed.
>
> DC
>
>
>
>
>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
>http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html =20
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D
>charset=3D3Diso-8859-1">
><META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3D3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I'm considering an attachment =
that will
=3D
>give 30%=3D20
>better fuel mileage</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>on almost any vehicle. $500 =3D
>installed. =3D20
>Refill with distilled water every</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>300-400 miles. $3.00/gallon is =
=3D
>down to=3D20
>$2.00/gal.. It gets 40% out</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>of a diesel. I've seen it and it =
=3D
>works. =3D20
>There are some real pros on </FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>this system. </FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>The hydrogen is burned at such a =
fast =3D
>rate the=3D20
>valves don't</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>get oxidation damage. It =3D
>isn't in mass=3D20
>production but I might get one for my</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>older 94 Chevy 1500 to see how =
it =3D
>works. =3D20
>Simple install, fused, amperage</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>meter, hose to the carb/fuel =
injector =3D
>and=3D20
>a small tank that seems</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>smaller than a bread box. Might =
=3D
>be tight=3D20
>under the </FONT><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>hood of some cars. =
=3D
></FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>It is easily removed for =3D
>inspections. They=3D20
>won't pass because </FONT><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>the =
emissions =3D
></FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>are so low it gives a false=3D20
>reading!!! Exhaust is cleaner too.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>It can be removed and installed =
in =3D
>another vehicle=3D20
>easily. Only one install</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>was a problem for the designer =
so far =3D
>out of=3D20
>10+. The computer in the Ford van </FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>would make </FONT><FONT =
face=3D3DArial =3D
>size=3D3D2>the fuel=3D20
>mixture richer to compensate for the changes the hydrogen =3D
>box</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>created. Turned out to COST =3D
>him 30% in=3D20
>gas mileage! The next step is to</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>hack the car computers to adapt =
for =3D
>this=3D20
>inexpensive device. He's working</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>on that now.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Just a =
consideration.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
><BLOCKQUOTE=3D20
>style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
=3D
>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV>"DC" <<A=3D20
> href=3D3D"mailto:dc@spammersinhell.com">dc@spammersinhell.com</A>> =
=3D
>wrote in=3D20
> message <A=3D20
> =3D
=
>href=3D3D"news:464e2664$1@linux">news:464e2664$1@linux</A>...</DIV><BR>"=
Jam=3D
>es =3D20
> McCloskey" <<A=3D20
> href=3D3D"mailto:excelsm@hotmail.com">excelsm@hotmail.com</A>>=3D20
> wrote:<BR>><BR>>Bush and his oil buddies won't like=3D20
> this!<BR>><BR>>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18700750/<BR><BR>Oh =3D
>yeah, and=3D20
> that's why both Bushe brothers continually <BR>veto the building of =
=3D
>new oil=3D20
> platforms...<BR><BR><BR>And this guy has a long way to go before =
his =3D
>idea is=3D20
> credible.<BR>Blaming it on egos is a bad start....<BR>Money to =
finance
=3D
>his=3D20
> research would not be hard to find if it<BR>shows real =3D
>promise.<BR><BR>He has=3D20
> not spoken of how much hydrogen his device puts out,<BR>and =
remember,
=3D
>it is=3D20
> only 40% as powerful as gasoline per volume<BR>so your car will =
lose a
=3D
>lot of=3D20
> its power. Remember also, this<BR>weaker car now has to =3D
>pull you=3D20
> and your family up the hill to<BR>Las Vegas... Can it produce =3D
>enough=3D20
> hydrogen on demand to pull<BR>this off?<BR><BR>What is the cost per =
=3D
>mile of=3D20
> gallium and aluminum refills?<BR><BR>How far does the tank take you =
=3D
>without a=3D20
> refill?<BR><BR>So far, I am not =3D
>impressed.<BR><BR>DC<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
><DIV><FONT size=3D3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight =
spam, =3D
>and=3D20
>you?<BR><A=3D20
=
>href=3D3D"http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/re=
fer=3D
>.html</A> </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
>
------=_NextPart_000_0170_01C799C2.2C382290
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>James,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Actually the guy who is doing this is =
not a=20
mechanic</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>he's my tech for the studio/road =
gear. He=20
fixed my Genelec 1037s</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>when Genelec wouldn't, DBX 161 where =
parts were=20
unavailable</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and Telefunken V72 with intermittent=20
problems.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>He wants to market this so is keeping =
it close to=20
the vest.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've seen his '96 V8 Suburban running =
very=20
smoothly. He gained</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>almost exactly 30% using this =
contraption (3rd=20
stage of development).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>He is engaging a few select mechanics =
to give it a=20
good local run first.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>He might put some details on a website =
in the near=20
future. He has a</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>picture of all the components that I =
asked for a=20
copy of but he wouldn't </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>release it to me. It's remarkably =
simple=20
except for the one natural ingredient</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>he adds to the distilled water to=20
help produce the hydrogen. He claims that =
only</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>distilled water need be added and that =
the small=20
amount of this other ingredient</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>is permanent and should never need to =
be added=20
again. Silly simple.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm not much on the technology involved =
but the=20
savings and pollution</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>reduction is worth it's weight in=20
gold/gas. I would more than regain the $500 </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>investment </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>within=20
the first twelve months given the fuel prices of $3/gal or </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>more.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I most concerned with the protection of =
the=20
engine. He claims it's safe.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If for any reason it should fail it =
isn't needed=20
anyway in an emergency on the road. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Flip the switch he installs =
</FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>on the dash and go on your way. He said it can be a =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>volatile situation but he has =
</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>made it completely safe by using the ingredient =
(I'll get=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the name again next time I speak =
</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>with him) he has chosen.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This is right now "it works" =
technology. It's=20
not expensive. Perfect.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"James McCloskey" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:excelsm@hotmail.com">excelsm@hotmail.com</A>> wrote =
in message=20
<A =
href=3D"news:464e8faf$1@linux">news:464e8faf$1@linux</A>...</DIV><BR>Tom,=
let=20
us know more about this.<BR><BR>James<BR><BR>"Tom Bruhl" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>>=20
wrote:<BR>><BR>><BR>>I'm considering an attachment that will =
give 30%=20
better fuel mileage<BR>>on almost any vehicle. $500 =
installed. =20
Refill with distilled water =3D<BR>>every<BR>>300-400 =
miles. =20
$3.00/gallon is down to $2.00/gal.. It gets 40% out<BR>>of a=20
diesel. I've seen it and it works. There are some real =
pros=20
on=3D20<BR>>this system. =3D20<BR>><BR>>The hydrogen is =
burned at such a=20
fast rate the valves don't<BR>>get oxidation damage. It isn't =
in mass=20
production but I might get one =3D<BR>>for my<BR>>older 94 Chevy =
1500 to=20
see how it works. Simple install, fused, =
=3D<BR>>amperage<BR>>meter,=20
hose to the carb/fuel injector and a small tank that =
seems<BR>>smaller than=20
a bread box. Might be tight under the hood of some cars. =
=3D20<BR>>It=20
is easily removed for inspections. They won't pass because the=20
=3D<BR>>emissions=3D20<BR>>are so low it gives a false =
reading!!! =20
Exhaust is cleaner too.<BR>><BR>>It can be removed and installed =
in=20
another vehicle easily. Only one =3D<BR>>install<BR>>was a =
problem=20
for the designer so far out of 10+. The computer in the =
=3D<BR>>Ford=20
van=3D20<BR>>would make the fuel mixture richer to compensate for =
the changes=20
the =3D<BR>>hydrogen box<BR>>created. Turned out to COST =
him 30% in=20
gas mileage! The next step is =3D<BR>>to<BR>>hack the car =
computers=20
to adapt for this inexpensive device. He's =
=3D<BR>>working<BR>>on=20
that now.<BR>><BR>>Just a =
consideration.<BR>>Tom<BR>> "DC"=20
<<A =
href=3D"mailto:dc@spammersinhell.com">dc@spammersinhell.com</A>> =
wrote=20
in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:464e2664$1@linux">news:464e2664$1@linux</A>...<BR>><BR>&g=
t; =20
"James McCloskey" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:excelsm@hotmail.com">excelsm@hotmail.com</A>>=20
wrote:<BR>> ><BR>> >Bush and his oil buddies =
won't=20
like this!<BR>> ><BR>> =20
>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18700750/<BR>><BR>> Oh =
yeah, and=20
that's why both Bushe brothers continually=3D20<BR>> veto the =
building=20
of new oil platforms...<BR>><BR>><BR>> And this guy has =
a long=20
way to go before his idea is credible.<BR>> Blaming it on =
egos is a=20
bad start....<BR>> Money to finance his research would not be =
hard to=20
find if it<BR>> shows real promise.<BR>><BR>> He =
has not=20
spoken of how much hydrogen his device puts out,<BR>> and =
remember,=20
it is only 40% as powerful as gasoline per volume<BR>> so =
your car=20
will lose a lot of its power. Remember also, =
this<BR>> =20
weaker car now has to pull you and your family up the hill =
to<BR>> =20
Las Vegas... Can it produce enough hydrogen on demand to=20
pull<BR>> this off?<BR>><BR>> What is the cost =
per mile=20
of gallium and aluminum refills?<BR>><BR>> How far does =
the tank=20
take you without a refill?<BR>><BR>> So far, I am not=20
impressed.<BR>><BR>> =
DC<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR >>I=20
choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and=20
you?<BR>>http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html =20
<BR>><BR>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0=20
Transitional//EN"><BR>><HTML><HEAD> <BR>><META=20
http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html;=20
=3D<BR>>charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"><BR>><META =
content=3D3D"MSHTML=20
6.00.2800.1400"=20
=
name=3D3DGENERATOR><BR>><STYLE></STYLE> <BR>></HEA=
D><BR>><BODY=20
bgColor=3D3D#ffffff><BR>><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial =
size=3D3D2>I'm=20
considering an attachment that will<BR>=3D<BR>>give =
30%=3D20<BR>>better fuel=20
mileage</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT =
face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2>on almost any vehicle. $500 =3D<BR>>installed. =
=3D20<BR>>Refill=20
with distilled water =
every</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT=20
face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>300-400 miles. $3.00/gallon is =
=3D<BR>>down=20
to=3D20<BR>>$2.00/gal.. It gets 40%=20
out</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial =
size=3D3D2>of a diesel. I've seen it and it =3D<BR>>works. =
=3D20<BR>>There=20
are some real pros on =
</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT=20
face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>this system.=20
</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT =
face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2>The hydrogen is burned at such a fast =3D<BR>>rate=20
the=3D20<BR>>valves =
don't</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT=20
face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>get oxidation damage. It =3D<BR>>isn't =
in=20
mass=3D20<BR>>production but I might get one for=20
my</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2>older 94 Chevy 1500 to see how it =3D<BR>>works.=20
=3D20<BR>>Simple install, fused,=20
amperage</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT =
face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2>meter, hose to the carb/fuel injector =
=3D<BR>>and=3D20<BR>>a=20
small tank that =
seems</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT=20
face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>smaller than a bread box. Might =
=3D<BR>>be=20
tight=3D20<BR>>under the </FONT><FONT face=3D3DArial =
size=3D3D2>hood=20
of some cars. =
=3D<BR>></FONT></DIV><BR >><DIV><FONT=20
face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>It is easily removed for =
=3D<BR>>inspections.=20
They=3D20<BR>>won't pass because </FONT><FONT =
face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2>the emissions=20
=3D<BR>></FONT></DIV><BR >><DIV><FONT =
face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2>are so low it gives a false=3D20<BR>>reading!!! =
Exhaust is=20
cleaner too.</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT =
face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT =
face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2>It can be removed and installed in =3D<BR>>another=20
vehicle=3D20<BR>>easily. Only one=20
install</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT =
face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2>was a problem for the designer so far =3D<BR>>out=20
of=3D20<BR>>10+. The computer in the Ford van=20
</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2>would make </FONT><FONT face=3D3DArial=20
=3D<BR>>size=3D3D2>the fuel=3D20<BR>>mixture richer to =
compensate for the=20
changes the hydrogen=20
=3D<BR>>box</FONT></DIV> <BR>><DIV><FONT =
face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2>created. Turned out to COST =3D<BR>>him 30% =
in=3D20<BR>>gas=20
mileage! The next step is=20
to</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2>hack the car computers to adapt for=20
=3D<BR>>this=3D20<BR>>inexpensive device. He's=20
working</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT =
face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2>on that =
now.</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT=20
face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> =
</DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT=20
face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Just a=20
consideration.</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT=20
face=3D3DArial=20
=
size=3D3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV&g t; <BR>><BLOCKQUOTE=3D20<BR>=
>style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT:=20
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =3D<BR>>BORDER-LEFT: =
#000000 2px=20
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><BR>> <DIV>"DC"=20
<<A=3D20<BR>> href=3D3D"<A=20
=
href=3D'mailto:dc@spammersinhell.com">dc@spammersinhell.com</A'>mailto:dc=
@spammersinhell.com">dc@spammersinhell.com</A</A>>>=20
=3D<BR>>wrote in=3D20<BR>> message =
<A=3D20<BR>> =20
=3D<BR>>href=3D3D"<A=20
=
href=3D'news:464e2664$1@linux">news:464e2664$1@linux</A>...</DIV><BR>"Jam=
'>news:464e2664$1@linux">news:464e2664$1@linux</A>...</DIV>=
;<BR>"Jam</A>=3D<BR>>es=20
=3D20<BR>> McCloskey" <<A=3D20<BR>> =
href=3D3D"<A=20
=
href=3D'mailto:excelsm@hotmail.com">excelsm@hotmail.com</A>>=3D20'>mailto=
:excelsm@hotmail.com">excelsm@hotmail.com</A>>=3D20</A><BR>&g=
t; =20
wrote:<BR>><BR>>Bu sh and his oil buddies won't=20
like=3D20<BR>> =20
=
this!<BR>><BR>>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18700750/<=
;BR><BR>Oh=20
=3D<BR>>yeah, and=3D20<BR>> that's why both Bushe brothers =
continually=20
<BR>veto the building of =3D<BR>>new oil=3D20<BR>> =20
platforms...<BR><BR><BR&a mp;gt;And this guy has a long way =
to go=20
before his =3D<BR>>idea is=3D20<BR>> =
credible.<BR>Blaming it on=20
egos is a bad start....<BR>Money to=20
finance<BR>=3D<BR>>his=3D20<BR>> research would not be =
hard to find if=20
it<BR>shows real =3D<BR>>promise.<BR><BR>He=20
has=3D20<BR>> not spoken of how much hydrogen his device puts =
out,<BR>and remember,<BR>=3D<BR>>it is=3D20<BR>> =
only 40% as=20
powerful as gasoline per volume<BR>so your car will lose=20
a<BR>=3D<BR>>lot of=3D20<BR>> its power. Remember also,=20
this<BR>weaker car now has to =3D<BR>>pull =
you=3D20<BR>> and=20
your family up the hill to<BR>Las Vegas... Can it produce=20
=3D<BR>>enough=3D20<BR>> hydrogen on demand to =
pull<BR>this=20
off?<BR><BR>What is the cost per =3D<BR>>mile =
of=3D20<BR>> =20
gallium and aluminum refills?<BR><BR>How far does the tank =
take=20
you =3D<BR>>without a=3D20<BR>> =
refill?<BR><BR>So far, I=20
am not=20
=
=3D<BR> >impressed.<BR><BR>DC& ;lt;BR><BR></BLOCK=
QUOTE><BR>><DIV><FONT=20
size=3D3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight =
spam,=20
=
=3D<BR>>and=3D20<BR>>you?<BR><A=3D20 <BR>>href=3D3D"<A=20
=
href=3D'http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/refer=
'>http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/refer</A=
>=3D<BR>>.html</A>=20
=
</FONT></DIV></BODY&g t;</HTML> <BR>><BR>><BR></=
BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0170_01C799C2.2C382290--
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| Re: hydrogen [message #84843 is a reply to message #84796] |
Sun, 20 May 2007 08:13 |
Bill L
Messages: 766
Registered: August 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
And dig, it only cost 2 cents a mile to run. Most cars are around 8
cents, so you can save there.
Aaron Allen wrote:
> At a base price of $92k ( fully loaded $101,425), they've got a ways to go
> to sell many of them, even with all the incentives. Still I like where it's
> headed and that sure is a sharp looking 'geek' ride. 248 Peak HP ain't bad,
> and at over 200 ft/lbs of torque flatlines from 0 to 6000+ RPM, it would
> leave a few black marks on the pavement I'm thinking.
>
> AA
>
>
>
> "Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:464e6609@linux...
>> I was getting all excited, but now i see that I'm naive to even hope that a
>> smart scientist can dream up a way to get hydrogen out of water
>> economically.
>>
>> Hey, did you guys see the Tesla Motors car. It's frickin' awesome:
>> http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1
>>
>> 0-60 in 4 seconds. Instant torque. I want one.
>>
>>
>>
>> steve wrote:
>>> seems to me he's just passing the electricity buck.
>>>
>>> The idea is to get power to your car's wheels. His plan is to use
>>> aluminum/gallium
>>> to split water. And how does he get the aluminum/gallium back after it's
>>> used? Electricity. (I seem to remember reading that one of the biggest
>>> users
>>> of electricity in the country is the aluminum industry. Lots of power
>>> needed
>>> to electrolize it out of ore.)
>>>
>>> The same electricity that is used to split the alulminum oxide back to
>>> aluminum
>>> could just as easily be used to split water directly into hydrogen and
>>> oxygen.
>>> He's just moved the process from a most likely more efficient power plant
>>> right into a 350 pound pile of rocks in your car. Two conversions instead
>>> of one, undoubtedly more inefficient, to save the trouble of creating a
>>> hydrogen
>>> infrastructure. Maybe good. Maybe not.
>>>
>>> The other problem with hydrogen, namely it's tendency to leak right
>>> through
>>> seals and hoses, would still remain.
>>>
>>> Very interesting story. I wish I could get enthused about it...
>>>
>>> -steve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I don't know about climbing hills, but I do know the city of Lansing Mi.
>>> has
>>>> been using hydrogen powered buses and trucks since 1975.
>>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Bush and his oil buddies won't like this!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18700750/
>>>>> Oh yeah, and that's why both Bushe brothers continually veto the
>>>>> building of new oil platforms...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And this guy has a long way to go before his idea is credible.
>>>>> Blaming it on egos is a bad start....
>>>>> shows real promise.
>>>>>
>>>>> He has not spoken of how much hydrogen his device puts out,
>>>>> and remember, it is only 40% as powerful as gasoline per volume
>>>>> so your car will lose a lot of its power. Remember also, this
>>>>> weaker car now has to pull you and your family up the hill to
>>>>> Las Vegas... Can it produce enough hydrogen on demand to pull
>>>>> this off?
>>>>>
>>>>> What is the cost per mile of gallium and aluminum refills?
>>>>>
>>>>> How far does the tank take you without a refill?
>>>>>
>>>>> So far, I am not impressed.
>>>>>
>>>>> DC
>>>>>
>>>>>
>
>
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| Re: hydrogen [message #84848 is a reply to message #84843] |
Sun, 20 May 2007 09:03 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Bill L wrote:
> And dig, it only cost 2 cents a mile to run. Most cars are around 8
> cents, so you can save there.
Heh, that's right! :^)
Since most cars don't go 0-60 in 4 seconds, if I were in the market for
a this kind of car, I'd be comparing this to other similarly priced or
higher priced cars that run at a much, much higher cost per mile.
Although at that point, if you really care about the cost per mile
you're probably not in the market for a $100,000 ride.
They sold out of the first run, a great start for Tesla.
While vehicles in that class are just a conversation piece for most of
us. Tesla's long term plans include other, more practical/affordable
models as the economies of scale kick in. We shall see.
Here's another hotrod electric, a four-wheel-drive seven passenger
collaboration between Lotus and Zap. Claims 0-60 in about 5 seconds, and
this one might jump in at about half the cost of a Tesla Roadster:
http://www.zapworld.com/ZAPCMS/uploadedFiles/ZAP_APX.pdf
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
> Aaron Allen wrote:
>> At a base price of $92k ( fully loaded $101,425), they've got a ways
>> to go to sell many of them, even with all the incentives. Still I
>> like where it's headed and that sure is a sharp looking 'geek' ride.
>> 248 Peak HP ain't bad, and at over 200 ft/lbs of torque flatlines from
>> 0 to 6000+ RPM, it would leave a few black marks on the pavement I'm
>> thinking.
>>
>> AA
>>
>>
>>
>> "Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:464e6609@linux...
>>> I was getting all excited, but now i see that I'm naive to even hope
>>> that a smart scientist can dream up a way to get hydrogen out of
>>> water economically.
>>>
>>> Hey, did you guys see the Tesla Motors car. It's frickin' awesome:
>>> http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1
>>>
>>> 0-60 in 4 seconds. Instant torque. I want one.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> steve wrote:
>>>> seems to me he's just passing the electricity buck.
>>>>
>>>> The idea is to get power to your car's wheels. His plan is to use
>>>> aluminum/gallium
>>>> to split water. And how does he get the aluminum/gallium back after
>>>> it's
>>>> used? Electricity. (I seem to remember reading that one of the
>>>> biggest users
>>>> of electricity in the country is the aluminum industry. Lots of
>>>> power needed
>>>> to electrolize it out of ore.)
>>>>
>>>> The same electricity that is used to split the alulminum oxide back
>>>> to aluminum
>>>> could just as easily be used to split water directly into hydrogen
>>>> and oxygen.
>>>> He's just moved the process from a most likely more efficient power
>>>> plant
>>>> right into a 350 pound pile of rocks in your car. Two conversions
>>>> instead
>>>> of one, undoubtedly more inefficient, to save the trouble of
>>>> creating a hydrogen
>>>> infrastructure. Maybe good. Maybe not.
>>>>
>>>> The other problem with hydrogen, namely it's tendency to leak right
>>>> through
>>>> seals and hoses, would still remain.
>>>>
>>>> Very interesting story. I wish I could get enthused about it...
>>>>
>>>> -steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I don't know about climbing hills, but I do know the city of
>>>>> Lansing Mi.
>>>> has
>>>>> been using hydrogen powered buses and trucks since 1975.
>>>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Bush and his oil buddies won't like this!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18700750/
>>>>>> Oh yeah, and that's why both Bushe brothers continually veto the
>>>>>> building of new oil platforms...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And this guy has a long way to go before his idea is credible.
>>>>>> Blaming it on egos is a bad start....
>>>>>> shows real promise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He has not spoken of how much hydrogen his device puts out,
>>>>>> and remember, it is only 40% as powerful as gasoline per volume
>>>>>> so your car will lose a lot of its power. Remember also, this
>>>>>> weaker car now has to pull you and your family up the hill to
>>>>>> Las Vegas... Can it produce enough hydrogen on demand to pull
>>>>>> this off?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What is the cost per mile of gallium and aluminum refills?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How far does the tank take you without a refill?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So far, I am not impressed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DC
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>
|
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| Re: hydrogen [message #84858 is a reply to message #84843] |
Sun, 20 May 2007 14:27 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
8 cents a mile?. Where on earth did you come up with that Bill?. Include the
amount of bluebook devaluation *per mile*, gasoline, schedulled maintenance,
tire wear, cosmetic damage due to normal road grime and hazards like rock
damage to windshields, dent's to side panels in parking lots, etc. and it
really adds up to much more.
Regards,
Deej
"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:465066fd@linux...
> And dig, it only cost 2 cents a mile to run. Most cars are around 8 cents,
> so you can save there.
>
> Aaron Allen wrote:
>> At a base price of $92k ( fully loaded $101,425), they've got a ways to
>> go to sell many of them, even with all the incentives. Still I like
>> where it's headed and that sure is a sharp looking 'geek' ride. 248 Peak
>> HP ain't bad, and at over 200 ft/lbs of torque flatlines from 0 to 6000+
>> RPM, it would leave a few black marks on the pavement I'm thinking.
>>
>> AA
>>
>>
>>
>> "Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:464e6609@linux...
>>> I was getting all excited, but now i see that I'm naive to even hope
>>> that a smart scientist can dream up a way to get hydrogen out of water
>>> economically.
>>>
>>> Hey, did you guys see the Tesla Motors car. It's frickin' awesome:
>>> http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1
>>>
>>> 0-60 in 4 seconds. Instant torque. I want one.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> steve wrote:
>>>> seems to me he's just passing the electricity buck.
>>>>
>>>> The idea is to get power to your car's wheels. His plan is to use
>>>> aluminum/gallium
>>>> to split water. And how does he get the aluminum/gallium back after
>>>> it's
>>>> used? Electricity. (I seem to remember reading that one of the biggest
>>>> users
>>>> of electricity in the country is the aluminum industry. Lots of power
>>>> needed
>>>> to electrolize it out of ore.)
>>>>
>>>> The same electricity that is used to split the alulminum oxide back to
>>>> aluminum
>>>> could just as easily be used to split water directly into hydrogen and
>>>> oxygen.
>>>> He's just moved the process from a most likely more efficient power
>>>> plant
>>>> right into a 350 pound pile of rocks in your car. Two conversions
>>>> instead
>>>> of one, undoubtedly more inefficient, to save the trouble of creating a
>>>> hydrogen
>>>> infrastructure. Maybe good. Maybe not.
>>>>
>>>> The other problem with hydrogen, namely it's tendency to leak right
>>>> through
>>>> seals and hoses, would still remain.
>>>>
>>>> Very interesting story. I wish I could get enthused about it...
>>>>
>>>> -steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I don't know about climbing hills, but I do know the city of Lansing
>>>>> Mi.
>>>> has
>>>>> been using hydrogen powered buses and trucks since 1975.
>>>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Bush and his oil buddies won't like this!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18700750/
>>>>>> Oh yeah, and that's why both Bushe brothers continually veto the
>>>>>> building of new oil platforms...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And this guy has a long way to go before his idea is credible.
>>>>>> Blaming it on egos is a bad start....
>>>>>> shows real promise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He has not spoken of how much hydrogen his device puts out,
>>>>>> and remember, it is only 40% as powerful as gasoline per volume
>>>>>> so your car will lose a lot of its power. Remember also, this
>>>>>> weaker car now has to pull you and your family up the hill to
>>>>>> Las Vegas... Can it produce enough hydrogen on demand to pull
>>>>>> this off?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What is the cost per mile of gallium and aluminum refills?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How far does the tank take you without a refill?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So far, I am not impressed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DC
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
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