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OK........I've had enough of this [message #95495] Mon, 04 February 2008 00:01 Go to next message
Deej [5] is currently offline  Deej [5]   FRANCE
Messages: 373
Registered: March 2008
Senior Member
Opened up the mudroom door to go take out the trash and............


Re: OK........I've had enough of this [message #95496 is a reply to message #95495] Mon, 04 February 2008 01:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kim is currently offline  Kim
Messages: 1246
Registered: October 2005
Senior Member
Holy guacamole! Is that normal for this time of year?!?

You got supplies? How are all your animals doing in all that?

Sheez... that's scary. I hope it clears up soon.

Remind me not to ask about those tweeters for another week. ;o( Seems you
have far bigger fish to fry...

Cheers,
Kim.

"Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>Opened up the mudroom door to go take out the trash and............
>
>
>
Re: OK........I've had enough of this [message #95497 is a reply to message #95496] Mon, 04 February 2008 00:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deej [5] is currently offline  Deej [5]   FRANCE
Messages: 373
Registered: March 2008
Senior Member
the horses have shelter and can plow through it when they leave the shelter.
the hounds are indoors with us. We have two other doors we can access that
have covered porches over them and we can get outside that way. We've had
over 18" of snow in the last 24 hours.....and no......this is not normal.
Not at all....but it was normal for this area until around 1990. Another
thing that used to be normal around here is the spring flooding of the
Animas River valley across the road from us where there is now a golf
course, a bunch of upper 6 figure homes and a shopping center being built.

http://www.daltonranch.com/

It will be interesting to see if there is anything left of this come May.








"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:47a6cd69$1@linux...
>
>
> Holy guacamole! Is that normal for this time of year?!?
>
> You got supplies? How are all your animals doing in all that?
>
> Sheez... that's scary. I hope it clears up soon.
>
> Remind me not to ask about those tweeters for another week. ;o( Seems you
> have far bigger fish to fry...
>
> Cheers,
> Kim.
>
> "Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>>Opened up the mudroom door to go take out the trash and............
>>
>>
>>
>
Re: OK........I've had enough of this [message #95498 is a reply to message #95497] Mon, 04 February 2008 02:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kim is currently offline  Kim
Messages: 1246
Registered: October 2005
Senior Member
"Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>http://www.daltonranch.com/
>
>It will be interesting to see if there is anything left of this come May.

That much melted snow has to go somewhere...

Sounds like you're not at the bottom of the hill. Lucky.

Cheers,
Kim.


>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:47a6cd69$1@linux...
>>
>>
>> Holy guacamole! Is that normal for this time of year?!?
>>
>> You got supplies? How are all your animals doing in all that?
>>
>> Sheez... that's scary. I hope it clears up soon.
>>
>> Remind me not to ask about those tweeters for another week. ;o( Seems
you
>> have far bigger fish to fry...
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Kim.
>>
>> "Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>>>Opened up the mudroom door to go take out the trash and............
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
Re: OK........I've had enough of this [message #95499 is a reply to message #95495] Mon, 04 February 2008 04:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Don Nafe is currently offline  Don Nafe   CANADA
Messages: 1206
Registered: July 2005
Senior Member
Welcome to Global Warnming Deej...toasty?

hehehe


"Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote in message news:47a6c9df@linux...
> Opened up the mudroom door to go take out the trash and............
>
>
Re: OK........I've had enough of this [message #95500 is a reply to message #95495] Mon, 04 February 2008 06:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aaron Allen is currently offline  Aaron Allen   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
Senior Member
That's just awful man. I'll think about you as I'm riding my motorcycle to
work today. We've had a freak blast of 'global warming' thrust upon us
yesterday and today. You and Amy about ready to load of the animals and hang
at my pad?

AA


"Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote in message news:47a6c9df@linux...
> Opened up the mudroom door to go take out the trash and............
>
>
Re: OK........I've had enough of this [message #95502 is a reply to message #95499] Mon, 04 February 2008 09:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jamie K is currently offline  Jamie K   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
Senior Member
Hey Don, it's true that one of the expected byproducts of global warming
is increased extreme weather events, including winter weather events.
But it's not possible to pin a particular event on global warming until
you review all the data, much later, to account for other variables/cycles.

Hey Deej, that's an impressive pile of snow! I haven't seen anything
like that since the big storm of 03 (I think it was) when I was snowed
OUT of my house in Conifer for a week. I was something like 8 feet of
snow. When they finally plowed a one lane channel through the snow past
the end of the driveway, we went back up to see if the place survived.
We had to borrow snow shoes to get over the snow and then dig down to
get to the front door.

That storm was the only one where I had to shovel snow off of the roof.
I was very surprised the roof and deck didn't collapse under all that
weight.

Stay safe and warm, bro!

Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com




Don Nafe wrote:
> Welcome to Global Warnming Deej...toasty?
>
> hehehe
>
>
> "Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote in message news:47a6c9df@linux...
>> Opened up the mudroom door to go take out the trash and............
>>
>>
>
>
Re: OK........I've had enough of this [message #95503 is a reply to message #95495] Mon, 04 February 2008 10:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LaMontt  is currently offline  LaMontt   
Messages: 424
Registered: January 2007
Senior Member

DJ, Where is this?

"Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>Opened up the mudroom door to go take out the trash and............
>
>
>
Re: OK........I've had enough of this [message #95506 is a reply to message #95503] Mon, 04 February 2008 11:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deej [5] is currently offline  Deej [5]   FRANCE
Messages: 373
Registered: March 2008
Senior Member
"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:47a74ed7$1@linux...
>
> DJ, Where is this?
>
In front of our door!!!!

;o)

(Durango, Colorado, USA.)
Re: OK........I've had enough of this [message #95518 is a reply to message #95502] Mon, 04 February 2008 18:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neil is currently offline  Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
Senior Member
Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>
>Hey Don, it's true that one of the expected byproducts of global warming

>is increased extreme weather events, including winter weather events.

This is like saying that one of the byproducts of global
stupidity is that people will get more intelligent.

Let's see, what else can we blame on opposite-cause events like
this? If you gain weight, then you'll get skinny? If you become
rich, it means you can't afford a place to live? If you go
crazy, then it means you're sane? Nope, none of those make
sense. Hmmm.... doesn't seem to work with ANYTHING else except
global warming, where a cold, cold winter can be blamed on too
much heat.

Neil
Re: OK........I've had enough of this [message #95520 is a reply to message #95518] Mon, 04 February 2008 18:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dedric Terry is currently offline  Dedric Terry   UNITED STATES
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
Senior Member
But temperature changes cause weather changes, and the greater the
temperature change, the more extreme the weather. A small change at a
global level can cause big changes at the regional level (e.g. introduce
warmer winds into a cold climate and you'll get snow, sleet, etc).

At the same time, weather comes in cycles, so to measure increases and
decreases in weather patterns you have to go back many decades, or even
centuries.

DT

On 2/4/08 7:56 PM, in article 47a7c26a$1@linux, "Neil" <OIOIU@OI.com> wrote:

>
> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Don, it's true that one of the expected byproducts of global warming
>
>> is increased extreme weather events, including winter weather events.
>
> This is like saying that one of the byproducts of global
> stupidity is that people will get more intelligent.
>
> Let's see, what else can we blame on opposite-cause events like
> this? If you gain weight, then you'll get skinny? If you become
> rich, it means you can't afford a place to live? If you go
> crazy, then it means you're sane? Nope, none of those make
> sense. Hmmm.... doesn't seem to work with ANYTHING else except
> global warming, where a cold, cold winter can be blamed on too
> much heat.
>
> Neil
Re: OK........I've had enough of this [message #95521 is a reply to message #95518] Mon, 04 February 2008 19:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chuck duffy is currently offline  chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
Senior Member
"Neil" <OIOIU@OI.com> wrote:

"This is like saying that one of the byproducts of global
stupidity is that people will get more intelligent."

That is exactly what is happening. Rampant global stupidity makes true intelligence
stand out.

Chuck
Re: OK........I've had enough of this [message #95522 is a reply to message #95495] Mon, 04 February 2008 18:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
audioguy_editout_ is currently offline  audioguy_editout_   CANADA
Messages: 249
Registered: December 2005
Senior Member
OK, you win.... ;-)

David.

Deej wrote:
> Opened up the mudroom door to go take out the trash and............
>
>
>
Re: OK........I've had enough of this [message #95523 is a reply to message #95518] Mon, 04 February 2008 20:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kim is currently offline  Kim
Messages: 1246
Registered: October 2005
Senior Member
"Neil" <OIOIU@OI.com> wrote:
>This is like saying that one of the byproducts of global
>stupidity is that people will get more intelligent.

Hehe, I see your point. I mean I'm sure everybody sees it, but...

(1) Weather has always been a bit like that. I mean generally the equator
is warm and the poles are cold, but we all know that things like tornadoes,
storms, rain, temperature etc, don't follow this simple rule. Otherwise we'd
have one global weather prediction and you'd just add 2 degrees because you're
closer to the equator than GMT (T for temp ;o)

(2) Scientists predicted this well over two decades ago, and have become
more confident of it each year. Meanwhile the planet has heated each year,
and extreme weather events have increased. This is commonly accepted as explaining
your wacked storms and tornadoes of the last decade. Indeed you break the
tornado record almost every year now, and the planet breaks the temp record.

You examples aren't as rock solid as they appear in any case:

>If you gain weight, then you'll get skinny?

Well one might have thought that eating couldn't make you skinny, but the
more celery you eat...

>If you become rich, it means you can't afford a place to live?

Well if you get rich emitting greenhouse gasses can you buy a new planet?
;o)

>If you go crazy, then it means you're sane?

Ask Galileo. He was mad. The dude claimed the earth was round, and that the
moon surface wasn't flat but had mountains. He then invented and built this
thing called a telescope so people could look through it at the moon. People
thought he had won until all the top scientists discussed it and explained
that "No, the surface of the moon is totally flat, but it's covered in a
TRANSPARENT MATERIAL which can't be seen by the telescope". Thank goodness
for that.

Now that doesn't refute your points very solidly, but all rules have limits.

I trust the people who are acclaimed as experts, and put there hand up saying
"This is what will happen" which was then followed by that thing actually
happening. Generally speaking when somebody claims to be an expert and I
can't fault their claims I trust them.

I'd be interested as to whether anybody else on the planet, who doesn't support
global warming, correctly predicted the increase in extreme weather events
with some alternate reason. I'm sure they have concocted some explanation
by now, now that they see it, but when I'm deciding who to take my horse
betting advice from, I trust the guy who predicted 9 of the last ten races
before, not the guy who has a good excuse after the event...

....nor, indeed, the guy who posts on a NG saying "I know nothing about horses,
but that blokes horse tipping method doesn't make sense to me!". ;o)

Cheers,
Kim.
How I spent my day part 1 [message #95529 is a reply to message #95495] Mon, 04 February 2008 21:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deej [5] is currently offline  Deej [5]   FRANCE
Messages: 373
Registered: March 2008
Senior Member
"Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote in message news:47a6c9df@linux...
> Opened up the mudroom door to go take out the trash and............
>
>
>


Part 2 [message #95530 is a reply to message #95495] Mon, 04 February 2008 21:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deej [5] is currently offline  Deej [5]   FRANCE
Messages: 373
Registered: March 2008
Senior Member
"Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote in message news:47a6c9df@linux...
> Opened up the mudroom door to go take out the trash and............
>
>
>


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Re: OK........I've had enough of this [message #95531 is a reply to message #95518] Mon, 04 February 2008 21:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jamie K is currently offline  Jamie K   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
Senior Member
Neil wrote:
> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>> Hey Don, it's true that one of the expected byproducts of global warming
>
>> is increased extreme weather events, including winter weather events.
>
> This is like saying that one of the byproducts of global
> stupidity is that people will get more intelligent.

We can only hope! :^)

An increase in extreme weather events is predicted by climate scientists
as a consequence of the current climate change event.

It may seem counter-intuitive until you really think about it.

Warmer ocean water, more evaporation, more energy in weather systems to
carry the moisture farther, this can bring more snow over the mountains.

(And again, any single weather event can't be linked to the current
climate change by itself. But over time we can measure patterns.)

Another recent study shows the possibility for earlier rain and earlier
snow pack melting leading to quicker snow pack degradation. So even
though individual weather systems may dump a lot of moisture (hang in
there, Deej!), it may not stay around as long or melt as slowly. Which
means we may be facing possible water shortages in some areas.

http://climate.weather.com/articles/watertrends020108.html

"They found that up to 60 percent of changes in river flow, temperature
and snow pack between 1950 and 1999 can be attributed to human
activities, such as driving, that release emissions including carbon
dioxide and other greenhouse gases into the atmosphere."


> Let's see, what else can we blame on opposite-cause events like
> this?

Don't be confused by the term "global warming." It doesn't mean equal
heat everywhere on the globe, weather doesn't work like that.

That's one reason to use the "climate change" label instead. It's more
accurate and less confusing to people. Another is that as the surface
warms (on average), the mesosphere cools. Both from the same mechanism,
the additional heat absorption and re-radiation from additional
greenhouse gases.

It's interesting to read about this stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_atmosphere
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_chemistry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorology

Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com



> Neil
Re: OK........I've had enough of this [message #95533 is a reply to message #95531] Mon, 04 February 2008 22:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neil is currently offline  Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
Senior Member
I'd love to stick around & read more of your one-trick-pony-
turn-every-single-fucking-thread-on-this-board-into-a-global -
warming-rant...

....but right now I've got to go buy some carbon credits.

Neil


Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>Neil wrote:
>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>> Hey Don, it's true that one of the expected byproducts of global warming
>>
>>> is increased extreme weather events, including winter weather events.

>>
>> This is like saying that one of the byproducts of global
>> stupidity is that people will get more intelligent.
>
>We can only hope! :^)
>
>An increase in extreme weather events is predicted by climate scientists

>as a consequence of the current climate change event.
>
>It may seem counter-intuitive until you really think about it.
>
>Warmer ocean water, more evaporation, more energy in weather systems to

>carry the moisture farther, this can bring more snow over the mountains.
>
>(And again, any single weather event can't be linked to the current
>climate change by itself. But over time we can measure patterns.)
>
>Another recent study shows the possibility for earlier rain and earlier

>snow pack melting leading to quicker snow pack degradation. So even
>though individual weather systems may dump a lot of moisture (hang in
>there, Deej!), it may not stay around as long or melt as slowly. Which
>means we may be facing possible water shortages in some areas.
>
> http://climate.weather.com/articles/watertrends020108.html
>
>"They found that up to 60 percent of changes in river flow, temperature

>and snow pack between 1950 and 1999 can be attributed to human
>activities, such as driving, that release emissions including carbon
>dioxide and other greenhouse gases into the atmosphere."
>
>
>> Let's see, what else can we blame on opposite-cause events like
>> this?
>
>Don't be confused by the term "global warming." It doesn't mean equal
>heat everywhere on the globe, weather doesn't work like that.
>
>That's one reason to use the "climate change" label instead. It's more
>accurate and less confusing to people. Another is that as the surface
>warms (on average), the mesosphere cools. Both from the same mechanism,

>the additional heat absorption and re-radiation from additional
>greenhouse gases.
>
>It's interesting to read about this stuff.
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_atmosphere
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_chemistry
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorology
>
>Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>
>> Neil
Re: OK........I've had enough of this [message #95535 is a reply to message #95533] Mon, 04 February 2008 22:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jamie K is currently offline  Jamie K   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
Senior Member
Neil wrote:
> I'd love to stick around & read more of your one-trick-pony-
> turn-every-single-fucking-thread-on-this-board-into-a-global -
> warming-rant...

Heh. It was hardly a rant, Neil. You should see it when I really cut
lose. ;^)

I didn't bring up climate change in this thread. I just responded to it,
like you.


> ...but right now I've got to go buy some carbon credits.

If you think that's best.

Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com



> Neil
>
>
> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>> Neil wrote:
>>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>> Hey Don, it's true that one of the expected byproducts of global warming
>>>> is increased extreme weather events, including winter weather events.
>
>>> This is like saying that one of the byproducts of global
>>> stupidity is that people will get more intelligent.
>> We can only hope! :^)
>>
>> An increase in extreme weather events is predicted by climate scientists
>
>> as a consequence of the current climate change event.
>>
>> It may seem counter-intuitive until you really think about it.
>>
>> Warmer ocean water, more evaporation, more energy in weather systems to
>
>> carry the moisture farther, this can bring more snow over the mountains.
>>
>> (And again, any single weather event can't be linked to the current
>> climate change by itself. But over time we can measure patterns.)
>>
>> Another recent study shows the possibility for earlier rain and earlier
>
>> snow pack melting leading to quicker snow pack degradation. So even
>> though individual weather systems may dump a lot of moisture (hang in
>> there, Deej!), it may not stay around as long or melt as slowly. Which
>> means we may be facing possible water shortages in some areas.
>>
>> http://climate.weather.com/articles/watertrends020108.html
>>
>> "They found that up to 60 percent of changes in river flow, temperature
>
>> and snow pack between 1950 and 1999 can be attributed to human
>> activities, such as driving, that release emissions including carbon
>> dioxide and other greenhouse gases into the atmosphere."
>>
>>
>>> Let's see, what else can we blame on opposite-cause events like
>>> this?
>> Don't be confused by the term "global warming." It doesn't mean equal
>> heat everywhere on the globe, weather doesn't work like that.
>>
>> That's one reason to use the "climate change" label instead. It's more
>> accurate and less confusing to people. Another is that as the surface
>> warms (on average), the mesosphere cools. Both from the same mechanism,
>
>> the additional heat absorption and re-radiation from additional
>> greenhouse gases.
>>
>> It's interesting to read about this stuff.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_atmosphere
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_chemistry
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorology
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>>
>>> Neil
>
Re: OK........I've had enough of this [message #95536 is a reply to message #95531] Mon, 04 February 2008 22:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tony Benson is currently offline  Tony Benson   UNITED STATES
Messages: 453
Registered: June 2006
Senior Member
So you're saying we're all pretty much f*cked then, huh Jamie. We really are
our own worst enemies. The problem now is we can't do much to stop it. Short
of deciding, as a species, to go back to living "pre-industrialization" life
styles. Wanna place any bets on that happening? ;>)

Seriously, I don't know if I believe everything the doomsayers are
preaching. I also don't think we're doing the world any good though by the
amount of carbon we pump into the air. Hopefully, we still have enough time
to figure out a clean way to produce the energy we need to maintain our
current and growing rate of consumption. I just don't see us all getting
around on horses, plowing our fields with oxen, and reading by candlelight
anytime soon.

Maybe the Mayans's were right? Four years and counting is it? :>o

Tony


On 2/4/08 11:33 PM, in article 47a7f891@linux, "Jamie K"
<Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:

> Neil wrote:
>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>> Hey Don, it's true that one of the expected byproducts of global warming
>>
>>> is increased extreme weather events, including winter weather events.
>>
>> This is like saying that one of the byproducts of global
>> stupidity is that people will get more intelligent.
>
> We can only hope! :^)
>
> An increase in extreme weather events is predicted by climate scientists
> as a consequence of the current climate change event.
>
> It may seem counter-intuitive until you really think about it.
>
> Warmer ocean water, more evaporation, more energy in weather systems to
> carry the moisture farther, this can bring more snow over the mountains.
>
> (And again, any single weather event can't be linked to the current
> climate change by itself. But over time we can measure patterns.)
>
> Another recent study shows the possibility for earlier rain and earlier
> snow pack melting leading to quicker snow pack degradation. So even
> though individual weather systems may dump a lot of moisture (hang in
> there, Deej!), it may not stay around as long or melt as slowly. Which
> means we may be facing possible water shortages in some areas.
>
> http://climate.weather.com/articles/watertrends020108.html
>
> "They found that up to 60 percent of changes in river flow, temperature
> and snow pack between 1950 and 1999 can be attributed to human
> activities, such as driving, that release emissions including carbon
> dioxide and other greenhouse gases into the atmosphere."
>
>
>> Let's see, what else can we blame on opposite-cause events like
>> this?
>
> Don't be confused by the term "global warming." It doesn't mean equal
> heat everywhere on the globe, weather doesn't work like that.
>
> That's one reason to use the "climate change" label instead. It's more
> accurate and less confusing to people. Another is that as the surface
> warms (on average), the mesosphere cools. Both from the same mechanism,
> the additional heat absorption and re-radiation from additional
> greenhouse gases.
>
> It's interesting to read about this stuff.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_atmosphere
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_chemistry
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorology
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>
>> Neil
Re: OK........I've had enough of this [message #95537 is a reply to message #95535] Mon, 04 February 2008 23:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neil is currently offline  Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
Senior Member
Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>Neil wrote:
>> I'd love to stick around & read more of your one-trick-pony-
>> turn-every-single-fucking-thread-on-this-board-into-a-global -
>> warming-rant...
>
>Heh. It was hardly a rant, Neil. You should see it when I really cut
>lose. ;^)

I have, trust me.

>> ...but right now I've got to go buy some carbon credits.
>
>If you think that's best.

Oh, I'm sure it'll fix everything.

Neil
Re: OK........I've had enough of this [message #95541 is a reply to message #95536] Mon, 04 February 2008 22:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jamie K is currently offline  Jamie K   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
Senior Member
Tony Benson wrote:
> So you're saying we're all pretty much f*cked then, huh Jamie.

Me? No, I'm not saying that.

We would have been better off not dragging our feet for so long, but
there's still time to make a difference, and people ARE acting on what
we know.


> We really are
> our own worst enemies. The problem now is we can't do much to stop it.

It's important to realize that's not true.

Doing nothing would be a very risky choice.

Some warming has happened, some will still happen no matter what we do
because of how long greenhouse gases already added will stay in the
atmosphere.

But a significant amount of warming can still be prevented. There's a
lot we can do, some of which we are already doing.


> Short
> of deciding, as a species, to go back to living "pre-industrialization" life
> styles. Wanna place any bets on that happening? ;>)

I haven't seen that idea proposed in any serious mitigation plan. :^)


> Seriously, I don't know if I believe everything the doomsayers are
> preaching.

Nor I. There are always exaggerations. But if you avoid some of the more
hyperbolic special interest groups and stick closely to the science, the
more likely range of possible outcomes is worth paying attention to and
working to mitigate.


> I also don't think we're doing the world any good though by the
> amount of carbon we pump into the air.

It might be good for some places where a warmer climate is at least a
superficial improvement, but bad overall for the possible shock of rapid
ecosystem change, threats to coastlines and hard to predict outcomes
like the possible melting of permafrost (which would release methane,
another greenhouse gas), changing of ocean currents and other rolls of
the dice.


> Hopefully, we still have enough time
> to figure out a clean way to produce the energy we need to maintain our
> current and growing rate of consumption. I just don't see us all getting
> around on horses, plowing our fields with oxen, and reading by candlelight
> anytime soon.

I don't know that horses are all that great of a solution, although I
like horses. :^)

But we have a lot of options. There are a lot of efficiency improvements
we can make in building design, city planning and manufacturing;
logistical improvements to transportation; more efficient uses of fossil
fuels; increased use of renewable energy; and faster adoption of more
efficient technologies.

Here are a few different perspectives:
http://carbonsequestration.us/Papers-presentations/htm/Pacal a-Socolow-ScienceMag-Aug2004.pdf

http://www.ases.org/climatechange/
http://www.westernresourceadvocates.org/energy/clenergy.php
http://www.ipcc.ch/

I highly recommend this issue of Scientific American:
http://www.sciam.com/sciammag/?contents=2006-09

Especially this article:
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=a-plan-to-keep-carbon-in

Worth a trip to the library.

> Maybe the Mayans's were right? Four years and counting is it? :>o

What did the Mayan's say?

Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com



> Tony
>
>
> On 2/4/08 11:33 PM, in article 47a7f891@linux, "Jamie K"
> <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>
>> Neil wrote:
>>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>> Hey Don, it's true that one of the expected byproducts of global warming
>>>> is increased extreme weather events, including winter weather events.
>>> This is like saying that one of the byproducts of global
>>> stupidity is that people will get more intelligent.
>> We can only hope! :^)
>>
>> An increase in extreme weather events is predicted by climate scientists
>> as a consequence of the current climate change event.
>>
>> It may seem counter-intuitive until you really think about it.
>>
>> Warmer ocean water, more evaporation, more energy in weather systems to
>> carry the moisture farther, this can bring more snow over the mountains.
>>
>> (And again, any single weather event can't be linked to the current
>> climate change by itself. But over time we can measure patterns.)
>>
>> Another recent study shows the possibility for earlier rain and earlier
>> snow pack melting leading to quicker snow pack degradation. So even
>> though individual weather systems may dump a lot of moisture (hang in
>> there, Deej!), it may not stay around as long or melt as slowly. Which
>> means we may be facing possible water shortages in some areas.
>>
>> http://climate.weather.com/articles/watertrends020108.html
>>
>> "They found that up to 60 percent of changes in river flow, temperature
>> and snow pack between 1950 and 1999 can be attributed to human
>> activities, such as driving, that release emissions including carbon
>> dioxide and other greenhouse gases into the atmosphere."
>>
>>
>>> Let's see, what else can we blame on opposite-cause events like
>>> this?
>> Don't be confused by the term "global warming." It doesn't mean equal
>> heat everywhere on the globe, weather doesn't work like that.
>>
>> That's one reason to use the "climate change" label instead. It's more
>> accurate and less confusing to people. Another is that as the surface
>> warms (on average), the mesosphere cools. Both from the same mechanism,
>> the additional heat absorption and re-radiation from additional
>> greenhouse gases.
>>
>> It's interesting to read about this stuff.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_atmosphere
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_chemistry
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorology
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>>
>>> Neil
>
Re: OK........I've had enough of this [message #95543 is a reply to message #95537] Mon, 04 February 2008 22:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jamie K is currently offline  Jamie K   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
Senior Member
Neil wrote:
> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>> Neil wrote:
>>> I'd love to stick around & read more of your one-trick-pony-
>>> turn-every-single-fucking-thread-on-this-board-into-a-global -
>>> warming-rant...
>> Heh. It was hardly a rant, Neil. You should see it when I really cut
>> lose. ;^)
>
> I have, trust me.
>
>>> ...but right now I've got to go buy some carbon credits.
>> If you think that's best.
>
> Oh, I'm sure it'll fix everything.

It's more likely to take more than one approach. There's no single magic
bullet.

Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com


> Neil
part 3 [message #95545 is a reply to message #95495] Mon, 04 February 2008 21:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deej [5] is currently offline  Deej [5]   FRANCE
Messages: 373
Registered: March 2008
Senior Member
"Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote in message news:47a6c9df@linux...
> Opened up the mudroom door to go take out the trash and............
>
>
>


Re: OK........I've had enough of this [message #95547 is a reply to message #95537] Tue, 05 February 2008 01:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erling is currently offline  Erling   NORWAY
Messages: 156
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
There's allways new ways for someone to get more $ out of problems in
the world, so I'm sure this also will fix everything for some few
ones;-)

Erling

On 5 Feb 2008 17:24:36 +1000, "Neil" <OIUOI@OI.com> wrote:

>>> ...but right now I've got to go buy some carbon credits.
>>
>>If you think that's best.
>
>Oh, I'm sure it'll fix everything.
>
>Neil
Re: OK........I've had enough of this [message #95548 is a reply to message #95495] Tue, 05 February 2008 02:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rick is currently offline  rick   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
Senior Member
you're probably just being punished for something you did as a child.
(for men that means up into our 60's)



On Mon, 4 Feb 2008 01:01:53 -0700, "Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote:

>Opened up the mudroom door to go take out the trash and............
>
Re: How I spent my day part 1 [message #95549 is a reply to message #95529] Tue, 05 February 2008 02:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rick is currently offline  rick   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
Senior Member
ya gonna paint those gutters in the spring?

On Mon, 4 Feb 2008 22:31:21 -0700, "Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote:

>
Re: Part 2 [message #95550 is a reply to message #95530] Tue, 05 February 2008 02:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rick is currently offline  rick   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
Senior Member
hoffa's final resting place???

On Mon, 4 Feb 2008 22:31:45 -0700, "Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote:

>
Re: part 3 [message #95551 is a reply to message #95545] Tue, 05 February 2008 02:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rick is currently offline  rick   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
Senior Member
reruns already???



On Mon, 4 Feb 2008 22:32:08 -0700, "Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote:

>
Re: OK........I've had enough of this [message #95553 is a reply to message #95531] Tue, 05 February 2008 04:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Don Nafe is currently offline  Don Nafe   CANADA
Messages: 1206
Registered: July 2005
Senior Member
"Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:47a7f891@linux...

> http://climate.weather.com/articles/watertrends020108.html
>
> "They found that up to 60 percent of changes in river flow, temperature
> and snow pack between 1950 and 1999 can be attributed to human activities,
> such as driving, that release emissions including carbon dioxide and other
> greenhouse gases into the atmosphere."
>
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>

Bullshit...sorry got to call you on this one
Re: OK........I've had enough of this [message #95554 is a reply to message #95553] Tue, 05 February 2008 04:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Don Nafe is currently offline  Don Nafe   CANADA
Messages: 1206
Registered: July 2005
Senior Member
"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:47a85854@linux...
>
> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:47a7f891@linux...
>
>> http://climate.weather.com/articles/watertrends020108.html
>>
>> "They found that up to 60 percent of changes in river flow, temperature
>> and snow pack between 1950 and 1999 can be attributed to human
>> activities, such as driving, that release emissions including carbon
>> dioxide and other greenhouse gases into the atmosphere."
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>
> Bullshit...sorry got to call you on this one


Try this on for size...open letter to the Bali Conference...check the link
to the list of signatories at the borttom of the article

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=164002


I can only say that when the world's two top scientists (Hawkins and Dyson)
disagree on this topic you can be damn sure the science of "Climate Change"
is far from decided

nuff said...crawling back under my rock
Re: Part 2 [message #95555 is a reply to message #95530] Tue, 05 February 2008 04:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Don Nafe is currently offline  Don Nafe   CANADA
Messages: 1206
Registered: July 2005
Senior Member
No fair...a snowblower AND a snow plow!

And I thought you were a real man Deej

Hire a twelve year old...have some fun watching him suffer while you're warm
inside

hehehe


"Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote in message news:47a7f848@linux...
>
> "Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote in message news:47a6c9df@linux...
>> Opened up the mudroom door to go take out the trash and............
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Re: How I spent my day part 1 [message #95556 is a reply to message #95549] Tue, 05 February 2008 04:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Don Nafe is currently offline  Don Nafe   CANADA
Messages: 1206
Registered: July 2005
Senior Member
"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:51dgq3h1cmoq7o0ftve5h7q2i08aldhpbk@4ax.com...
> ya gonna paint those gutters in the spring?
>
> On Mon, 4 Feb 2008 22:31:21 -0700, "Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>
>>

do people still do that?
Re: OK........I've had enough of this [message #95557 is a reply to message #95547] Tue, 05 February 2008 04:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Don Nafe is currently offline  Don Nafe   CANADA
Messages: 1206
Registered: July 2005
Senior Member
"erlilo" <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote in message
news:5lagq3l1ms0s7p7j5v3r9erjmpakm3au64@4ax.com...
> There's allways new ways for someone to get more $ out of problems in
> the world, so I'm sure this also will fix everything for some few
> ones;-)
>
> Erling
>



With the amount of money it would cost Canada to adhere to Kyoto for one
year we could provide all of Africa with clean safe drinking water for 30
years.

Interview with Tom Harris Director NRSP

http://www.nrsp.com/
Re: part 3 [message #95559 is a reply to message #95551] Tue, 05 February 2008 07:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neil is currently offline  Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
Senior Member
Well, there IS a writers' strike still going on, you know.

:D


rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>reruns already???
>
>
>
>On Mon, 4 Feb 2008 22:32:08 -0700, "Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>
>>
>
Re: How I spent my day part 1 [message #95561 is a reply to message #95556] Tue, 05 February 2008 07:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neil is currently offline  Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
Senior Member
I think Deej sent his storm system down the Rockies to me...
over the weekend it had gotten warmer - shirtsleeve weather,
really - but yesterday the temp dropped precipitously and this
morning it's even a little colder and now the sky around the
mountains is REALLY dark & threatening. Overnight lows are
going to be in the mid-20's, and the weather-guessers are
predicting either showers or showers mixed with snow (depending
on the forecaster).

Back to you, Jamie...

Neil


"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>
>"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:51dgq3h1cmoq7o0ftve5h7q2i08aldhpbk@4ax.com...
>> ya gonna paint those gutters in the spring?
>>
>> On Mon, 4 Feb 2008 22:31:21 -0700, "Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>
>do people still do that?
>
>
>
Re: Part 2 [message #95562 is a reply to message #95555] Tue, 05 February 2008 07:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neil is currently offline  Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
Senior Member
Do kids still do that kind of stuff? Shovel snow & mow lawns
for pocket money? I used to do that when i was a kid, but I
don't know if many kids these days have the physical fortitude
to accomplish that, considering all they do is sit around
playing video games? lol

As a kid in Massachusetts, I used to look forward to every
snowstorm, because it always meant two things: 1.) great
sledding at the hill not far from my house; 2.) Pocket
money from shoveling driveways! :D

Neil

"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>No fair...a snowblower AND a snow plow!
>
>And I thought you were a real man Deej
>
>Hire a twelve year old...have some fun watching him suffer while you're
warm
>inside
>
>hehehe
>
>
>"Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote in message news:47a7f848@linux...
>>
>> "Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote in message news:47a6c9df@linux...
>>> Opened up the mudroom door to go take out the trash and............
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Re: How I spent my day part 1 [message #95563 is a reply to message #95561] Tue, 05 February 2008 06:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rick is currently offline  rick   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
Senior Member
thunderstorms today and snow storm here tonight.


On 6 Feb 2008 01:32:33 +1000, "Neil" <OIOIU@OI.com> wrote:

>
>I think Deej sent his storm system down the Rockies to me...
>over the weekend it had gotten warmer - shirtsleeve weather,
>really - but yesterday the temp dropped precipitously and this
>morning it's even a little colder and now the sky around the
>mountains is REALLY dark & threatening. Overnight lows are
>going to be in the mid-20's, and the weather-guessers are
>predicting either showers or showers mixed with snow (depending
>on the forecaster).
>
>Back to you, Jamie...
>
>Neil
>
>
>"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>>
>>"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:51dgq3h1cmoq7o0ftve5h7q2i08aldhpbk@4ax.com...
>>> ya gonna paint those gutters in the spring?
>>>
>>> On Mon, 4 Feb 2008 22:31:21 -0700, "Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>
>>do people still do that?
>>
>>
>>
Re: part 3 [message #95564 is a reply to message #95559] Tue, 05 February 2008 06:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rick is currently offline  rick   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
Senior Member
does that include photo journalism?

On 6 Feb 2008 01:22:22 +1000, "Neil" <OIOI@OI.com> wrote:

>
>Well, there IS a writers' strike still going on, you know.
>
>:D
>
>
>rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>reruns already???
>>
>>
>>
>>On Mon, 4 Feb 2008 22:32:08 -0700, "Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
Re: Part 2 [message #95567 is a reply to message #95562] Tue, 05 February 2008 08:02 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Don Nafe is currently offline  Don Nafe   CANADA
Messages: 1206
Registered: July 2005
Senior Member
I have two kids...actually adults now who for the last five years have done
our driveway in the winter and cut our lawn when we went camping form a
month...now I have my 12 year old son do it...for a reasonable rate


"Neil" <IIOU@OUI.com> wrote in message news:47a875a4$1@linux...
>
> Do kids still do that kind of stuff? Shovel snow & mow lawns
> for pocket money? I used to do that when i was a kid, but I
> don't know if many kids these days have the physical fortitude
> to accomplish that, considering all they do is sit around
> playing video games? lol
>
> As a kid in Massachusetts, I used to look forward to every
> snowstorm, because it always meant two things: 1.) great
> sledding at the hill not far from my house; 2.) Pocket
> money from shoveling driveways! :D
>
> Neil
>
> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>>No fair...a snowblower AND a snow plow!
>>
>>And I thought you were a real man Deej
>>
>>Hire a twelve year old...have some fun watching him suffer while you're
> warm
>>inside
>>
>>hehehe
>>
>>
>>"Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote in message news:47a7f848@linux...
>>>
>>> "Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote in message news:47a6c9df@linux...
>>>> Opened up the mudroom door to go take out the trash and............
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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