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Soundstaging, predelay, e4arly reflections, etc. [message #56919] Mon, 15 August 2005 18:54 Go to previous message
Deej [1] is currently offline  Deej [1]   UNITED STATES
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
Senior Member
'd be glad to e-mail it to those here who would be willing to critique
it.
>
> TIA for the enlightenment.
>
> ;o)
>
> Deej
>
> Deej
>
>OK, a few thoughts... below.

DJ wrote:

<snip>

First, the ONLY time I would ever bother with detailed sound
stage is if I were doing a live concert locked to video
(which I do), and even then I would only bother with making
sure that the sound source is panned to the picture
location. The big problem with that is when you get a
close-up shot the instrument should, in theory, become
center panned and louder than the rest... it's closer...
right? Too much work.

>
> I figure that if I've got a group of musicians on a stage 50' wide, then
> each panning increment in the 100-100 L/R spread equals 0.25' so for every
> 4 increments, I'm moving the performer to the left or right by 1'. For
> example, if I wanted to position the band members within a space 30' across,
> then from the center, to place the guitarist 15' to stage left, I would pan
> him left to 60.

That would depend on the viewing angle... are you in the
front row, or center of the hall?

>
> This would theoretically put him 10' from the closest wall and 35' from the
> farthest wall.
>
> Now a few questions about early reflections and predelay and soundstaging in
> general, as follows:
>
> 1. If I'm using a stereo reverb, since the performer is stage left at pan
> position 60, I would pan the reverb return to stage right 60 and set the
> ER's for the right side to around 35ms and the ER's to the left to around
> 10ms with the levels about 2/3 to 3/4 (or less) of the strength of the
> original signal. This woulld theoretically give me a basic two dimensional
> (L/R) location of the musician in an ambient space, right?

The delay would not be necessary and would actually
"clutter" the mix. Longer reverb pre-delays will simulate a
larger overall "space". You would be better off "thinning
out" the sound slightly to make it seem to come from a
distance. You would have to combine this with reduced
bandwidth on the reverb return to simulate greater distance
as highs and are acoustically rolled off naturally over
distance.

>
> Also, do you pan the reverb send to mirror the return? I'm just not getting
> this for some reason. Seems that panning the send does nothing. Maybe I'm
> just too overwhelmed at the moment to notice.

Panning the return and reducing the reverb width would be a
better way to accomplish this as most reverbs are not
"discrete" stereo.

>
> 2. In order to get the front/back positioning of the musician relative to
> the other band members and the front/back of the room, using predealy would
> provide some dimensional space........right? what I'm not clear about is
> whether the predelay should be set for positioning the performers relative
> to the fall of the space that is farthest from them or from the wall that is
> behind them. I know that since they are broadcasting into the room, that the
> front makes sense, but music travels all directions and it seems it would
> make smoe sense to at least take the back wall into consideration.
>
> Also, I'm thinking that using actual short (2-3 ms delays) between the
> instruments/performers themselves would help to create some sense of
> relative front-to-back relational spatiality.

Too much trouble for not enough benefit... try thinning for
distance instead. Leave the arrival time intact, it will
help to maintain the "impact" of the piece..

>
> I'm working mostly with acoustic musicians, some drums, but very little in
> the way of special FX like phaser/chorus/synth stuff,..........just trying
> to create a realistic optimal and dimensionally realistic space for the
> performance.
>
> How big a soundstage is generally used for commercial studio projects? I
> know it's all relative, but if there is some sxort of *go-by* here that is
> an accepted standard, I'd like to know.

I think only classical people would ge

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