Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Well, FWIW....in case any of you guys get adventurous
| Well, FWIW....in case any of you guys get adventurous [message #91687] |
Sat, 20 October 2007 16:46  |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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.....and decide to go down the native path using higher sample rates in the
same way I have de3cided to do, I've got the new DAW(s) in a pretty
bulletproof configuration now with the ability to interface lots of external
boxes (which I would prefer to do, even at lower sample rates).
I had recently purchased a Lucid GenX-96 hoping to use it as a master clock
but I get the Lucid GenX-96 in here and try to slave the MADI card to it and
the MADI card won't slave to it at sample rates above 48KHz. Not the end of
the world, but downright baffling.
What "is" working (and what I'm going to stick with) is to output the MADI
WC to a Mytek Stereo96 AD converter, then take the BNC output of the Mytek
and input this to the Lucid GenX 96 while simultaneously taking the AES
output of the Mytek and patching it into the AES input of my other Lucid
GenX-6 box. Set both Lucid boxes to distro mode with the respective proper
incoming sync formats from the Mytek and use the BNC outs (a total of 12
available) of the Lucid boxes to the following devices which are either
internally terminated or terminated with 75 ohm BNC caps:
RME AES-32
RME ADI 648
RME ADI 4-DD
RME ADi 4-DD
RME ADI 8-DD
RME ADI 8-DD
RME ADI 8-DS
RME ADI 8-DS
RME Multiface
This leaves me three more clock outs for further adventures...........;o)
I'm quite happy with using the MADI as WC master, it just seems strange that
it will not lock to external sync above 48KHz. Stuff like this just drives
me nuts. At any rate, everything is looking good here now and I'm able to do
what I had wanted.
The way to get the external FX boxes (a PCM-91, SonyV-77, Roland R-880 and
Quantec Yardstick which are not capable of operating at sample rates above
48KHz) all working smoothly at sample rates up to 96KHz using 2 RME ADI 8-DD
format/sample rate converters is as follows:
AES 32 Totalmix 1:1 routing
Project sample rate set to 88.2KHz
AES-32 control panel Output Format - Double Speed>Single Wire
Routing:
AES 32 outputs 1 & 2, 3 & 4, 5 & 6, 7 & 8 to #1 ADI 8-DD inputs 1 & 2, 3 &
4, 5 & 6, 7 & 8
#1 ADI 8-DD settings left side:
Source-AES
SRC-Active
Clock-EXT
#1 ADI 8-DD settings right side
Source AES
AES State-Pro
#1 ADI 8-DD AES outputs to PCM 91 AES in, V77 AES in, R-880 AES in,
Yardstick AES in
____________________________________________________________ _______________
PCM 91 AES out, V77 AES out, R-880 AES out, Yardstick AES out to #2 ADI 8-DD
inputs
#2 ADI 8-DD settings left side:
Source-AES
SRC-Active
Clock-EXT > DS (very important-without this DS setting, the output signal to
the AES-32 is mono)
#2 ADI 8-DD settings right side
Source-AES
State-Pro
#1 ADI 8-DD AES outputs to AES-32 inputs 1 & 2, 3 & 4, 5 & 6, 7 & 8
Additionally, I've got 4 more external processors here (a POD XP Pro (96KHz
capable), a second Sony V77, a TC Electronics D-2 and a TC Electronics
M2000) patched into the AES 32 I/O #'s 9 thru 16 with the Sony and the two
TC devices interfacing with 6 x Behringer Ultramatch Pro units in a similar
manner to what I am using with the ADI 8-Dd units and these are handling the
real time sample rate conversion to/from 88.2KHZ for these boxes. I have to
say that as many bad experiences as I have had with Behringer products,
these particular boxes are and have been rock solid performers.......I do
keep a spare..just in case.....;o)
It's nice having 8 x outboard external devices in Cubase SX capable of
processing at 88.2 KHz. It really does open up some possibilities and save
some DSP horsepower that can be used for those nice UAD-1 compressors and
EQ's when working at higher sample rates.
Now.....to start getting some projects going at said higher sample rates.
I've got two in preproduction right now. It's almost time to burn up some
disc space.
;O)
Deej
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| Re: Well, FWIW....in case any of you guys get adventurous [message #91690 is a reply to message #91687] |
Sat, 20 October 2007 18:27  |
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DJ, my man.. I I can' begin to understand your setup. And this coming from
a Network Enginner :)
I'm happpy if you're happy with it. Rock on. Or get a DM 2000..
"DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _ net> wrote:
>....and decide to go down the native path using higher sample rates in the
>same way I have de3cided to do, I've got the new DAW(s) in a pretty
>bulletproof configuration now with the ability to interface lots of external
>boxes (which I would prefer to do, even at lower sample rates).
>
>I had recently purchased a Lucid GenX-96 hoping to use it as a master clock
>but I get the Lucid GenX-96 in here and try to slave the MADI card to it
and
>the MADI card won't slave to it at sample rates above 48KHz. Not the end
of
>the world, but downright baffling.
>
>What "is" working (and what I'm going to stick with) is to output the MADI
>WC to a Mytek Stereo96 AD converter, then take the BNC output of the Mytek
>and input this to the Lucid GenX 96 while simultaneously taking the AES
>output of the Mytek and patching it into the AES input of my other Lucid
>GenX-6 box. Set both Lucid boxes to distro mode with the respective proper
>incoming sync formats from the Mytek and use the BNC outs (a total of 12
>available) of the Lucid boxes to the following devices which are either
>internally terminated or terminated with 75 ohm BNC caps:
>
>RME AES-32
>RME ADI 648
>RME ADI 4-DD
>RME ADi 4-DD
>RME ADI 8-DD
>RME ADI 8-DD
>RME ADI 8-DS
>RME ADI 8-DS
>RME Multiface
>
>This leaves me three more clock outs for further adventures...........;o)
>
>I'm quite happy with using the MADI as WC master, it just seems strange
that
>it will not lock to external sync above 48KHz. Stuff like this just drives
>me nuts. At any rate, everything is looking good here now and I'm able to
do
>what I had wanted.
>
>The way to get the external FX boxes (a PCM-91, SonyV-77, Roland R-880 and
>Quantec Yardstick which are not capable of operating at sample rates above
>48KHz) all working smoothly at sample rates up to 96KHz using 2 RME ADI
8-DD
>format/sample rate converters is as follows:
>
>AES 32 Totalmix 1:1 routing
>Project sample rate set to 88.2KHz
>AES-32 control panel Output Format - Double Speed>Single Wire
>
>Routing:
>
>AES 32 outputs 1 & 2, 3 & 4, 5 & 6, 7 & 8 to #1 ADI 8-DD inputs 1 & 2, 3
&
>4, 5 & 6, 7 & 8
>
>#1 ADI 8-DD settings left side:
>Source-AES
>SRC-Active
>Clock-EXT
>#1 ADI 8-DD settings right side
>Source AES
>AES State-Pro
>#1 ADI 8-DD AES outputs to PCM 91 AES in, V77 AES in, R-880 AES in,
>Yardstick AES in
> ____________________________________________________________ _______________
>PCM 91 AES out, V77 AES out, R-880 AES out, Yardstick AES out to #2 ADI
8-DD
>inputs
>
>#2 ADI 8-DD settings left side:
>Source-AES
>SRC-Active
>Clock-EXT > DS (very important-without this DS setting, the output signal
to
>the AES-32 is mono)
>#2 ADI 8-DD settings right side
>Source-AES
>State-Pro
>#1 ADI 8-DD AES outputs to AES-32 inputs 1 & 2, 3 & 4, 5 & 6, 7 & 8
>
>Additionally, I've got 4 more external processors here (a POD XP Pro (96KHz
>capable), a second Sony V77, a TC Electronics D-2 and a TC Electronics
>M2000) patched into the AES 32 I/O #'s 9 thru 16 with the Sony and the two
>TC devices interfacing with 6 x Behringer Ultramatch Pro units in a similar
>manner to what I am using with the ADI 8-Dd units and these are handling
the
>real time sample rate conversion to/from 88.2KHZ for these boxes. I have
to
>say that as many bad experiences as I have had with Behringer products,
>these particular boxes are and have been rock solid performers.......I do
>keep a spare..just in case.....;o)
>
>It's nice having 8 x outboard external devices in Cubase SX capable of
>processing at 88.2 KHz. It really does open up some possibilities and save
>some DSP horsepower that can be used for those nice UAD-1 compressors and
>EQ's when working at higher sample rates.
>
>Now.....to start getting some projects going at said higher sample rates.
>I've got two in preproduction right now. It's almost time to burn up some
>disc space.
>;O)
>Deej
>
>
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| Re: Well, FWIW....in case any of you guys get adventurous [message #91700 is a reply to message #91687] |
Sun, 21 October 2007 01:21 |
Sarah
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2007
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Senior Member |
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Someday I may want to understand what you're talking about, but for now I'm
happy to assume that you know. :)
S
"DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _ net> wrote in message
news:471a94cb@linux...
> ....and decide to go down the native path using higher sample rates in the
> same way I have de3cided to do, I've got the new DAW(s) in a pretty
> bulletproof configuration now with the ability to interface lots of
> external boxes (which I would prefer to do, even at lower sample rates).
>
> I had recently purchased a Lucid GenX-96 hoping to use it as a master
> clock but I get the Lucid GenX-96 in here and try to slave the MADI card
> to it and the MADI card won't slave to it at sample rates above 48KHz. Not
> the end of the world, but downright baffling.
>
> What "is" working (and what I'm going to stick with) is to output the MADI
> WC to a Mytek Stereo96 AD converter, then take the BNC output of the Mytek
> and input this to the Lucid GenX 96 while simultaneously taking the AES
> output of the Mytek and patching it into the AES input of my other Lucid
> GenX-6 box. Set both Lucid boxes to distro mode with the respective proper
> incoming sync formats from the Mytek and use the BNC outs (a total of 12
> available) of the Lucid boxes to the following devices which are either
> internally terminated or terminated with 75 ohm BNC caps:
>
> RME AES-32
> RME ADI 648
> RME ADI 4-DD
> RME ADi 4-DD
> RME ADI 8-DD
> RME ADI 8-DD
> RME ADI 8-DS
> RME ADI 8-DS
> RME Multiface
>
> This leaves me three more clock outs for further adventures...........;o)
>
> I'm quite happy with using the MADI as WC master, it just seems strange
> that it will not lock to external sync above 48KHz. Stuff like this just
> drives me nuts. At any rate, everything is looking good here now and I'm
> able to do what I had wanted.
>
> The way to get the external FX boxes (a PCM-91, SonyV-77, Roland R-880 and
> Quantec Yardstick which are not capable of operating at sample rates above
> 48KHz) all working smoothly at sample rates up to 96KHz using 2 RME ADI
> 8-DD format/sample rate converters is as follows:
>
> AES 32 Totalmix 1:1 routing
> Project sample rate set to 88.2KHz
> AES-32 control panel Output Format - Double Speed>Single Wire
>
> Routing:
>
> AES 32 outputs 1 & 2, 3 & 4, 5 & 6, 7 & 8 to #1 ADI 8-DD inputs 1 & 2, 3 &
> 4, 5 & 6, 7 & 8
>
> #1 ADI 8-DD settings left side:
> Source-AES
> SRC-Active
> Clock-EXT
> #1 ADI 8-DD settings right side
> Source AES
> AES State-Pro
> #1 ADI 8-DD AES outputs to PCM 91 AES in, V77 AES in, R-880 AES in,
> Yardstick AES in
> ____________________________________________________________ _______________
> PCM 91 AES out, V77 AES out, R-880 AES out, Yardstick AES out to #2 ADI
> 8-DD inputs
>
> #2 ADI 8-DD settings left side:
> Source-AES
> SRC-Active
> Clock-EXT > DS (very important-without this DS setting, the output signal
> to the AES-32 is mono)
> #2 ADI 8-DD settings right side
> Source-AES
> State-Pro
> #1 ADI 8-DD AES outputs to AES-32 inputs 1 & 2, 3 & 4, 5 & 6, 7 & 8
>
> Additionally, I've got 4 more external processors here (a POD XP Pro
> (96KHz capable), a second Sony V77, a TC Electronics D-2 and a TC
> Electronics M2000) patched into the AES 32 I/O #'s 9 thru 16 with the Sony
> and the two TC devices interfacing with 6 x Behringer Ultramatch Pro units
> in a similar manner to what I am using with the ADI 8-Dd units and these
> are handling the real time sample rate conversion to/from 88.2KHZ for
> these boxes. I have to say that as many bad experiences as I have had with
> Behringer products, these particular boxes are and have been rock solid
> performers.......I do keep a spare..just in case.....;o)
>
> It's nice having 8 x outboard external devices in Cubase SX capable of
> processing at 88.2 KHz. It really does open up some possibilities and save
> some DSP horsepower that can be used for those nice UAD-1 compressors and
> EQ's when working at higher sample rates.
>
> Now.....to start getting some projects going at said higher sample rates.
> I've got two in preproduction right now. It's almost time to burn up some
> disc space.
> ;O)
> Deej
>
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| Re: Well, FWIW....in case any of you guys get adventurous [message #91708 is a reply to message #91687] |
Sun, 21 October 2007 08:13 |
Gene Lennon[4]
Messages: 26
Registered: November 2006
|
Junior Member |
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|
Thanks for the info. It does put somewhat of a damper on my plans based on
the clock issues with MADI, but it sounds very powerful.
Are you sure that running the RME ADI 8-DD format/sample rate converters
I/O to the effects sounds better than running analog? I would like your opinion.
Cool setup.
Gene
"DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _ net> wrote:
>....and decide to go down the native path using higher sample rates in the
>same way I have de3cided to do, I've got the new DAW(s) in a pretty
>bulletproof configuration now with the ability to interface lots of external
>boxes (which I would prefer to do, even at lower sample rates).
>
>I had recently purchased a Lucid GenX-96 hoping to use it as a master clock
>but I get the Lucid GenX-96 in here and try to slave the MADI card to it
and
>the MADI card won't slave to it at sample rates above 48KHz. Not the end
of
>the world, but downright baffling.
>
>What "is" working (and what I'm going to stick with) is to output the MADI
>WC to a Mytek Stereo96 AD converter, then take the BNC output of the Mytek
>and input this to the Lucid GenX 96 while simultaneously taking the AES
>output of the Mytek and patching it into the AES input of my other Lucid
>GenX-6 box. Set both Lucid boxes to distro mode with the respective proper
>incoming sync formats from the Mytek and use the BNC outs (a total of 12
>available) of the Lucid boxes to the following devices which are either
>internally terminated or terminated with 75 ohm BNC caps:
>
>RME AES-32
>RME ADI 648
>RME ADI 4-DD
>RME ADi 4-DD
>RME ADI 8-DD
>RME ADI 8-DD
>RME ADI 8-DS
>RME ADI 8-DS
>RME Multiface
>
>This leaves me three more clock outs for further adventures...........;o)
>
>I'm quite happy with using the MADI as WC master, it just seems strange
that
>it will not lock to external sync above 48KHz. Stuff like this just drives
>me nuts. At any rate, everything is looking good here now and I'm able to
do
>what I had wanted.
>
>The way to get the external FX boxes (a PCM-91, SonyV-77, Roland R-880 and
>Quantec Yardstick which are not capable of operating at sample rates above
>48KHz) all working smoothly at sample rates up to 96KHz using 2 RME ADI
8-DD
>format/sample rate converters is as follows:
>
>AES 32 Totalmix 1:1 routing
>Project sample rate set to 88.2KHz
>AES-32 control panel Output Format - Double Speed>Single Wire
>
>Routing:
>
>AES 32 outputs 1 & 2, 3 & 4, 5 & 6, 7 & 8 to #1 ADI 8-DD inputs 1 & 2, 3
&
>4, 5 & 6, 7 & 8
>
>#1 ADI 8-DD settings left side:
>Source-AES
>SRC-Active
>Clock-EXT
>#1 ADI 8-DD settings right side
>Source AES
>AES State-Pro
>#1 ADI 8-DD AES outputs to PCM 91 AES in, V77 AES in, R-880 AES in,
>Yardstick AES in
> ____________________________________________________________ _______________
>PCM 91 AES out, V77 AES out, R-880 AES out, Yardstick AES out to #2 ADI
8-DD
>inputs
>
>#2 ADI 8-DD settings left side:
>Source-AES
>SRC-Active
>Clock-EXT > DS (very important-without this DS setting, the output signal
to
>the AES-32 is mono)
>#2 ADI 8-DD settings right side
>Source-AES
>State-Pro
>#1 ADI 8-DD AES outputs to AES-32 inputs 1 & 2, 3 & 4, 5 & 6, 7 & 8
>
>Additionally, I've got 4 more external processors here (a POD XP Pro (96KHz
>capable), a second Sony V77, a TC Electronics D-2 and a TC Electronics
>M2000) patched into the AES 32 I/O #'s 9 thru 16 with the Sony and the two
>TC devices interfacing with 6 x Behringer Ultramatch Pro units in a similar
>manner to what I am using with the ADI 8-Dd units and these are handling
the
>real time sample rate conversion to/from 88.2KHZ for these boxes. I have
to
>say that as many bad experiences as I have had with Behringer products,
>these particular boxes are and have been rock solid performers.......I do
>keep a spare..just in case.....;o)
>
>It's nice having 8 x outboard external devices in Cubase SX capable of
>processing at 88.2 KHz. It really does open up some possibilities and save
>some DSP horsepower that can be used for those nice UAD-1 compressors and
>EQ's when working at higher sample rates.
>
>Now.....to start getting some projects going at said higher sample rates.
>I've got two in preproduction right now. It's almost time to burn up some
>disc space.
>;O)
>Deej
>
>
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| Re: Well, FWIW....in case any of you guys get adventurous [message #91715 is a reply to message #91713] |
Sun, 21 October 2007 10:12 |
Nil
Messages: 245
Registered: March 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _ net> wrote:
>
>"Gene Lennon" <glennon@NOSpammyrealbox.com> wrote in message
>news:471b6c9d$1@linux...
>>
>> Thanks for the info. It does put somewhat of a damper on my plans based
on
>> the clock issues with MADI, but it sounds very powerful.
>> Are you sure that running the RME ADI 8-DD format/sample rate converters
>> I/O to the effects sounds better than running analog? I would like your
>> opinion.
>>
>> Cool setup.
>>
>> Gene
>>
>
>Gene, I don't know that it sounds better. It does sound a bit different
as
>the converters on the boxes add their own character. The dinosaur converters
>in that old R-880,the PCM-91 and the Sony can add some flavor to a track
or
>a group. The reason I'm doiing it is primarily because I integrate so many
>other outboard devices into my mixes that don't have digital options and
>keeping as much of my signal path digital as possible (especially parallel
>send FX that will process multiple tracks) when integrating 8-10 (or more)
>analog processors and the AD/DA conversions this involves give be a bit
more
>openness when the entire mix is summed. There is a bit of apparent veiling,
>especially using the AD/DA's of the Lexi PCM-91.
OK, so you've got the samplerate issue covered with the (ahem!)
Behringer convertors, but what about bitstream rate? If you're
recording at 24 bits, and some of the older convertors on your
outboard gear are 12 or 16 bits, does that make any difference?
From a technical point of view, I mean.
Neil
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| Re: Well, FWIW....in case any of you guys get adventurous [message #91716 is a reply to message #91715] |
Sun, 21 October 2007 10:47 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
All of my outboard processors are 24 bit capable if interfacing digitally
via AES/EBU except maybe the R-880...and I'm pretty sure it is too.
"Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:471b8865$1@linux...
>
> "DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _ net> wrote:
>>
>>"Gene Lennon" <glennon@NOSpammyrealbox.com> wrote in message
>>news:471b6c9d$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Thanks for the info. It does put somewhat of a damper on my plans based
> on
>>> the clock issues with MADI, but it sounds very powerful.
>>> Are you sure that running the RME ADI 8-DD format/sample rate converters
>>> I/O to the effects sounds better than running analog? I would like your
>
>>> opinion.
>>>
>>> Cool setup.
>>>
>>> Gene
>>>
>>
>>Gene, I don't know that it sounds better. It does sound a bit different
> as
>>the converters on the boxes add their own character. The dinosaur
>>converters
>
>>in that old R-880,the PCM-91 and the Sony can add some flavor to a track
> or
>>a group. The reason I'm doiing it is primarily because I integrate so many
>
>>other outboard devices into my mixes that don't have digital options and
>
>>keeping as much of my signal path digital as possible (especially parallel
>
>>send FX that will process multiple tracks) when integrating 8-10 (or more)
>
>>analog processors and the AD/DA conversions this involves give be a bit
> more
>>openness when the entire mix is summed. There is a bit of apparent
>>veiling,
>
>>especially using the AD/DA's of the Lexi PCM-91.
>
>
> OK, so you've got the samplerate issue covered with the (ahem!)
> Behringer convertors, but what about bitstream rate? If you're
> recording at 24 bits, and some of the older convertors on your
> outboard gear are 12 or 16 bits, does that make any difference?
> From a technical point of view, I mean.
>
> Neil
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| Re: Well, FWIW....in case any of you guys get adventurous [message #91717 is a reply to message #91716] |
Sun, 21 October 2007 10:54 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Neil,
Here is the Behringer box I'm talking about:
http://www.behringer.com/SRC2496/index.cfm?lang=eng
It's one of the most useful pieces of kit that I've run across for SRC and
format conversion (and the AD/DA's aren't bad either). when interfacing
digitally, there is no color/distortion, etc. added to the signal. I can be
clocked from an external source and and it's internal clock is very stable
as well. A real Swiss (errr.German) army knife of a box. I have owned 7 of
these and only one has died......so far.
Deej
"DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _ net> wrote in message
news:471b9244$1@linux...
> All of my outboard processors are 24 bit capable if interfacing digitally
> via AES/EBU except maybe the R-880...and I'm pretty sure it is too.
>
>
> "Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:471b8865$1@linux...
>>
>> "DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _ net> wrote:
>>>
>>>"Gene Lennon" <glennon@NOSpammyrealbox.com> wrote in message
>>>news:471b6c9d$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the info. It does put somewhat of a damper on my plans based
>> on
>>>> the clock issues with MADI, but it sounds very powerful.
>>>> Are you sure that running the RME ADI 8-DD format/sample rate
>>>> converters
>>>> I/O to the effects sounds better than running analog? I would like your
>>
>>>> opinion.
>>>>
>>>> Cool setup.
>>>>
>>>> Gene
>>>>
>>>
>>>Gene, I don't know that it sounds better. It does sound a bit different
>> as
>>>the converters on the boxes add their own character. The dinosaur
>>>converters
>>
>>>in that old R-880,the PCM-91 and the Sony can add some flavor to a track
>> or
>>>a group. The reason I'm doiing it is primarily because I integrate so
>>>many
>>
>>>other outboard devices into my mixes that don't have digital options and
>>
>>>keeping as much of my signal path digital as possible (especially
>>>parallel
>>
>>>send FX that will process multiple tracks) when integrating 8-10 (or
>>>more)
>>
>>>analog processors and the AD/DA conversions this involves give be a bit
>> more
>>>openness when the entire mix is summed. There is a bit of apparent
>>>veiling,
>>
>>>especially using the AD/DA's of the Lexi PCM-91.
>>
>>
>> OK, so you've got the samplerate issue covered with the (ahem!)
>> Behringer convertors, but what about bitstream rate? If you're
>> recording at 24 bits, and some of the older convertors on your
>> outboard gear are 12 or 16 bits, does that make any difference?
>> From a technical point of view, I mean.
>>
>> Neil
>
>
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