Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » New DAW.......Native has arrived
| New DAW.......Native has arrived [message #98903] |
Fri, 23 May 2008 21:56  |
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Deej [5]
Messages: 373
Registered: March 2008
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Senior Member |
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Well, the last couple of months or so has been one of the most stressful periods
of my entire life as far as work goes. Chuck Norris jokes seemed like more
of a sane reality than the insane reality of what's been going on here. I
got sick in February.......real sick, and wasn't able to really work for
about 3 weeks and during that time I needed to be working at least 50 hours
a week on a drilling program that I had committed to, so when I got well
enough to work, the shit had hit the fan, I was behind the 8 ball and so
I spent the next 60 days trying to stay ahead of 5 drilling rigs that had
moved into this area (because I told them I could do what needed to get done
to keep them busy)and unless I pulled a rabbit out of my hat, they were going
to sit idle to the tune of $17,000.00 per day....and that was just for one
client. another one had me doing some other stuff that was even more stressful
so anyway, I know I've been abraisive and cranky oand a little whacked out
so thanks for not kicking me out of the group..........and during this time,
I've had Chris Ludwig build me a new DAW.
It's an Intel Quad Core machine and is capable of playing back 40 tracks
at 1.5ms latency while recording 8 more with a 70% DSP load of UAD-1 plugins.
In Parisspeak, that's roughly a 3 MEC system running lots of UAD-1 plugins
at zero audible latency with a wonderful cue system, VSTi's, and every bell
and whistle you can imagine, without using ASIO direct monitoring.
ADK did a great job on this box and it wasn't real expensive. the cores are
running at 3.2GHz per, it's got 4G of RAM and 4 x 500G 7200 RPM SATAII HD's
configured into a RAID 10 Array. I'm also running a pair of 750G SATAII drives
for audio samples and backup, respectively.
Does it sound like Paris? Nope, but it sounds very good. It's possible to
mix in Native and get "BIG". It's just a different prescription. The Neve
5042 tape emulator doesn't hurt either.
I ordered it with two system drives, one running Win XP Pro and the other
running Win XP x64 Pro. The first drive I tested was with Win XP64. The good
news was that this DAW is quite a bit more powerful than my dualcore Opteron
185 so I was able to achieve the 1.5 ms latency target that I was hoping
for. My VSTis' are as follows:
GPO
Ivory
NI B4
NI Bandstand
BFD
BFDII
Jamstix II
Trilogy
Drumagog
I was able to load all but one of my VSTi's and that one was Ivory. This
one wouldn't play nice with a 64 bit OS.
Despite speculation from Native Instruments that the NI installer would not
work in Win XP x64........all of them did load.....NI B4II, GPO and Bandstand
work fine in both the standalone and VSTi formats. It's just a matter of
pointing them elsewhere instead of the default path it wants to use and they
run just fine.
Performance was good at low latency, but not "as good" as I had hoped with
high track counts. For instance, I had 60 + tracks record enabled at both
32k and 64k buffers and was getting between 25% to 35% CPU loads. Also, there
was quite a bit of ASIO loading in Cubase when streaming samples in BFD and
BFD2. More really than with my older Opteron system.
After working a while with XP64 I started loading the same programs on the
system drive running Windows XP32. I can record enable over 100 tracks at
32k buffers an the CPU load is around 10%.
An even bigger difference is seen when playing back a project that is loaded
down with plugin count. Playing back a 40 track project with a 70% UAD-1
DSP while recording 8 x more tracks was getting a little dicey at 64k buffers
on XP64 (ASIO meter occasionally spiking). With Win XP32, the ASIO load during
dubbing on this same project is much lower and the overall system performance
is more solid. Sample streaming in BFD at low latencies is much improved.
At higher latencies the ASIO performance is roughly equal but the overall
performance nod goes to the XP64 because it can utilize all 4 x G of RAM
for use with virtual instruments. However, the main point of getting this
machine was to take advantage of it's capacity for operating at lower latencies.
As far as low latency performance is concerned, the margin between the two
OS'es give Win XP32 a significant edge.........significant enough to where
I have decided to go exclusively with XP32. I have a fairly powerful systemlinked
slave DAW to take up the slack if I run low on RAM in a mix and need more
VSTi's (not to mention the freeze function).
and yes James......I'm sure a Mac Pro can run circles around this, but a
Mac Pro, tricked out to this degree would cost considerably more ;o).
For me these days, it's about achieving a certain benchmark and that benchmark
is to be able to use a native DAW with no audible latency, in the same way
that I used Paris. that has been accomplished now.
I just wanted to give you guys a heads up about this and also to apologize
for being such a cantankerous wiseass (even more than usual) lately. I did
buy some Brie recently as a gesture of solidarity with my socialist bretherin
in France....
Cheers,
;o)
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| Re: New DAW.......Native has arrived [message #98904 is a reply to message #98903] |
Fri, 23 May 2008 23:57  |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
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Senior Member |
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"Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>
>Well, the last couple of months or so has been one of the most stressful
periods
>of my entire life as far as work goes. Chuck Norris jokes seemed like more
>of a sane reality than the insane reality of what's been going on here.
I
>got sick in February.......real sick, and wasn't able to really work for
>about 3 weeks and during that time I needed to be working at least 50 hours
>a week on a drilling program that I had committed to, so when I got well
>enough to work, the shit had hit the fan, I was behind the 8 ball and so
>I spent the next 60 days trying to stay ahead of 5 drilling rigs that had
>moved into this area (because I told them I could do what needed to get
done
>to keep them busy)and unless I pulled a rabbit out of my hat, they were
going
>to sit idle to the tune of $17,000.00 per day....and that was just for one
>client. another one had me doing some other stuff that was even more stressful
>so anyway, I know I've been abraisive and cranky oand a little whacked out
>so thanks for not kicking me out of the group..........and during this time,
>I've had Chris Ludwig build me a new DAW.
>
>It's an Intel Quad Core machine and is capable of playing back 40 tracks
>at 1.5ms latency while recording 8 more with a 70% DSP load of UAD-1 plugins.
>In Parisspeak, that's roughly a 3 MEC system running lots of UAD-1 plugins
>at zero audible latency with a wonderful cue system, VSTi's, and every bell
>and whistle you can imagine, without using ASIO direct monitoring.
>ADK did a great job on this box and it wasn't real expensive. the cores
are
>running at 3.2GHz per, it's got 4G of RAM and 4 x 500G 7200 RPM SATAII HD's
>configured into a RAID 10 Array. I'm also running a pair of 750G SATAII
drives
>for audio samples and backup, respectively.
>
>Does it sound like Paris? Nope, but it sounds very good. It's possible to
>mix in Native and get "BIG". It's just a different prescription. The Neve
>5042 tape emulator doesn't hurt either.
>
>I ordered it with two system drives, one running Win XP Pro and the other
>running Win XP x64 Pro. The first drive I tested was with Win XP64. The
good
>news was that this DAW is quite a bit more powerful than my dualcore Opteron
>185 so I was able to achieve the 1.5 ms latency target that I was hoping
>for. My VSTis' are as follows:
>GPO
>Ivory
>NI B4
>NI Bandstand
>BFD
>BFDII
>Jamstix II
>Trilogy
>Drumagog
>
>I was able to load all but one of my VSTi's and that one was Ivory. This
>one wouldn't play nice with a 64 bit OS.
>
>Despite speculation from Native Instruments that the NI installer would
not
>work in Win XP x64........all of them did load.....NI B4II, GPO and Bandstand
>work fine in both the standalone and VSTi formats. It's just a matter of
>pointing them elsewhere instead of the default path it wants to use and
they
>run just fine.
>
>Performance was good at low latency, but not "as good" as I had hoped with
>high track counts. For instance, I had 60 + tracks record enabled at both
>32k and 64k buffers and was getting between 25% to 35% CPU loads. Also,
there
>was quite a bit of ASIO loading in Cubase when streaming samples in BFD
and
>BFD2. More really than with my older Opteron system.
>
>After working a while with XP64 I started loading the same programs on the
>system drive running Windows XP32. I can record enable over 100 tracks at
>32k buffers an the CPU load is around 10%.
>
>An even bigger difference is seen when playing back a project that is loaded
>down with plugin count. Playing back a 40 track project with a 70% UAD-1
>DSP while recording 8 x more tracks was getting a little dicey at 64k buffers
>on XP64 (ASIO meter occasionally spiking). With Win XP32, the ASIO load
during
>dubbing on this same project is much lower and the overall system performance
>is more solid. Sample streaming in BFD at low latencies is much improved.
>
>At higher latencies the ASIO performance is roughly equal but the overall
>performance nod goes to the XP64 because it can utilize all 4 x G of RAM
>for use with virtual instruments. However, the main point of getting this
>machine was to take advantage of it's capacity for operating at lower latencies.
>As far as low latency performance is concerned, the margin between the two
>OS'es give Win XP32 a significant edge.........significant enough to where
>I have decided to go exclusively with XP32. I have a fairly powerful systemlinked
>slave DAW to take up the slack if I run low on RAM in a mix and need more
>VSTi's (not to mention the freeze function).
>
>and yes James......I'm sure a Mac Pro can run circles around this, but a
>Mac Pro, tricked out to this degree would cost considerably more ;o).
>
>For me these days, it's about achieving a certain benchmark and that benchmark
>is to be able to use a native DAW with no audible latency, in the same way
>that I used Paris. that has been accomplished now.
>
>I just wanted to give you guys a heads up about this and also to apologize
>for being such a cantankerous wiseass (even more than usual) lately. I did
>buy some Brie recently as a gesture of solidarity with my socialist bretherin
>in France....
>
>Cheers,
>
>;o)
Vary cool bro... Glad to hear your doing better!
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| Re: New DAW.......Native has arrived [message #98905 is a reply to message #98903] |
Sat, 24 May 2008 02:48 |
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Congratulations, Deej, on hitting the native DAW Holy Grail!
And congratulations on making it through a rough patch and pulling it off
against steep odds. The professional benchmark over at our shop here isn't
how well things go when they go well - it's about whether you can pull that
rabbit out of your hat when they aren't.
- Kerry
On 5/23/08 9:56 PM, in article 4837a001$1@linux, "Deej" <noway@jose.net>
wrote:
>
> Well, the last couple of months or so has been one of the most stressful
> periods
> of my entire life as far as work goes. Chuck Norris jokes seemed like more
> of a sane reality than the insane reality of what's been going on here. I
> got sick in February.......real sick, and wasn't able to really work for
> about 3 weeks and during that time I needed to be working at least 50 hours
> a week on a drilling program that I had committed to, so when I got well
> enough to work, the shit had hit the fan, I was behind the 8 ball and so
> I spent the next 60 days trying to stay ahead of 5 drilling rigs that had
> moved into this area (because I told them I could do what needed to get done
> to keep them busy)and unless I pulled a rabbit out of my hat, they were going
> to sit idle to the tune of $17,000.00 per day....and that was just for one
> client. another one had me doing some other stuff that was even more stressful
> so anyway, I know I've been abraisive and cranky oand a little whacked out
> so thanks for not kicking me out of the group..........and during this time,
> I've had Chris Ludwig build me a new DAW.
>
> It's an Intel Quad Core machine and is capable of playing back 40 tracks
> at 1.5ms latency while recording 8 more with a 70% DSP load of UAD-1 plugins.
> In Parisspeak, that's roughly a 3 MEC system running lots of UAD-1 plugins
> at zero audible latency with a wonderful cue system, VSTi's, and every bell
> and whistle you can imagine, without using ASIO direct monitoring.
> ADK did a great job on this box and it wasn't real expensive. the cores are
> running at 3.2GHz per, it's got 4G of RAM and 4 x 500G 7200 RPM SATAII HD's
> configured into a RAID 10 Array. I'm also running a pair of 750G SATAII drives
> for audio samples and backup, respectively.
>
> Does it sound like Paris? Nope, but it sounds very good. It's possible to
> mix in Native and get "BIG". It's just a different prescription. The Neve
> 5042 tape emulator doesn't hurt either.
>
> I ordered it with two system drives, one running Win XP Pro and the other
> running Win XP x64 Pro. The first drive I tested was with Win XP64. The good
> news was that this DAW is quite a bit more powerful than my dualcore Opteron
> 185 so I was able to achieve the 1.5 ms latency target that I was hoping
> for. My VSTis' are as follows:
> GPO
> Ivory
> NI B4
> NI Bandstand
> BFD
> BFDII
> Jamstix II
> Trilogy
> Drumagog
>
> I was able to load all but one of my VSTi's and that one was Ivory. This
> one wouldn't play nice with a 64 bit OS.
>
> Despite speculation from Native Instruments that the NI installer would not
> work in Win XP x64........all of them did load.....NI B4II, GPO and Bandstand
> work fine in both the standalone and VSTi formats. It's just a matter of
> pointing them elsewhere instead of the default path it wants to use and they
> run just fine.
>
> Performance was good at low latency, but not "as good" as I had hoped with
> high track counts. For instance, I had 60 + tracks record enabled at both
> 32k and 64k buffers and was getting between 25% to 35% CPU loads. Also, there
> was quite a bit of ASIO loading in Cubase when streaming samples in BFD and
> BFD2. More really than with my older Opteron system.
>
> After working a while with XP64 I started loading the same programs on the
> system drive running Windows XP32. I can record enable over 100 tracks at
> 32k buffers an the CPU load is around 10%.
>
> An even bigger difference is seen when playing back a project that is loaded
> down with plugin count. Playing back a 40 track project with a 70% UAD-1
> DSP while recording 8 x more tracks was getting a little dicey at 64k buffers
> on XP64 (ASIO meter occasionally spiking). With Win XP32, the ASIO load during
> dubbing on this same project is much lower and the overall system performance
> is more solid. Sample streaming in BFD at low latencies is much improved.
>
> At higher latencies the ASIO performance is roughly equal but the overall
> performance nod goes to the XP64 because it can utilize all 4 x G of RAM
> for use with virtual instruments. However, the main point of getting this
> machine was to take advantage of it's capacity for operating at lower
> latencies.
> As far as low latency performance is concerned, the margin between the two
> OS'es give Win XP32 a significant edge.........significant enough to where
> I have decided to go exclusively with XP32. I have a fairly powerful
> systemlinked
> slave DAW to take up the slack if I run low on RAM in a mix and need more
> VSTi's (not to mention the freeze function).
>
> and yes James......I'm sure a Mac Pro can run circles around this, but a
> Mac Pro, tricked out to this degree would cost considerably more ;o).
>
> For me these days, it's about achieving a certain benchmark and that benchmark
> is to be able to use a native DAW with no audible latency, in the same way
> that I used Paris. that has been accomplished now.
>
> I just wanted to give you guys a heads up about this and also to apologize
> for being such a cantankerous wiseass (even more than usual) lately. I did
> buy some Brie recently as a gesture of solidarity with my socialist bretherin
> in France....
>
> Cheers,
>
> ;o)
"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
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| Re: New DAW.......Native has arrived [message #98906 is a reply to message #98903] |
Sat, 24 May 2008 02:55 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
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Senior Member |
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glad to hear you're better but the rest is nothing more than a
pathetic chuck norris fan bragging about his new shit...what a
loser...;o)
On 24 May 2008 14:56:33 +1000, "Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>
>Well, the last couple of months or so has been one of the most stressful periods
>of my entire life as far as work goes. Chuck Norris jokes seemed like more
>of a sane reality than the insane reality of what's been going on here. I
>got sick in February.......real sick, and wasn't able to really work for
>about 3 weeks and during that time I needed to be working at least 50 hours
>a week on a drilling program that I had committed to, so when I got well
>enough to work, the shit had hit the fan, I was behind the 8 ball and so
>I spent the next 60 days trying to stay ahead of 5 drilling rigs that had
>moved into this area (because I told them I could do what needed to get done
>to keep them busy)and unless I pulled a rabbit out of my hat, they were going
>to sit idle to the tune of $17,000.00 per day....and that was just for one
>client. another one had me doing some other stuff that was even more stressful
>so anyway, I know I've been abraisive and cranky oand a little whacked out
>so thanks for not kicking me out of the group..........and during this time,
>I've had Chris Ludwig build me a new DAW.
>
>It's an Intel Quad Core machine and is capable of playing back 40 tracks
>at 1.5ms latency while recording 8 more with a 70% DSP load of UAD-1 plugins.
>In Parisspeak, that's roughly a 3 MEC system running lots of UAD-1 plugins
>at zero audible latency with a wonderful cue system, VSTi's, and every bell
>and whistle you can imagine, without using ASIO direct monitoring.
>ADK did a great job on this box and it wasn't real expensive. the cores are
>running at 3.2GHz per, it's got 4G of RAM and 4 x 500G 7200 RPM SATAII HD's
>configured into a RAID 10 Array. I'm also running a pair of 750G SATAII drives
>for audio samples and backup, respectively.
>
>Does it sound like Paris? Nope, but it sounds very good. It's possible to
>mix in Native and get "BIG". It's just a different prescription. The Neve
>5042 tape emulator doesn't hurt either.
>
>I ordered it with two system drives, one running Win XP Pro and the other
>running Win XP x64 Pro. The first drive I tested was with Win XP64. The good
>news was that this DAW is quite a bit more powerful than my dualcore Opteron
>185 so I was able to achieve the 1.5 ms latency target that I was hoping
>for. My VSTis' are as follows:
>GPO
>Ivory
>NI B4
>NI Bandstand
>BFD
>BFDII
>Jamstix II
>Trilogy
>Drumagog
>
>I was able to load all but one of my VSTi's and that one was Ivory. This
>one wouldn't play nice with a 64 bit OS.
>
>Despite speculation from Native Instruments that the NI installer would not
>work in Win XP x64........all of them did load.....NI B4II, GPO and Bandstand
>work fine in both the standalone and VSTi formats. It's just a matter of
>pointing them elsewhere instead of the default path it wants to use and they
>run just fine.
>
>Performance was good at low latency, but not "as good" as I had hoped with
>high track counts. For instance, I had 60 + tracks record enabled at both
>32k and 64k buffers and was getting between 25% to 35% CPU loads. Also, there
>was quite a bit of ASIO loading in Cubase when streaming samples in BFD and
>BFD2. More really than with my older Opteron system.
>
>After working a while with XP64 I started loading the same programs on the
>system drive running Windows XP32. I can record enable over 100 tracks at
>32k buffers an the CPU load is around 10%.
>
>An even bigger difference is seen when playing back a project that is loaded
>down with plugin count. Playing back a 40 track project with a 70% UAD-1
>DSP while recording 8 x more tracks was getting a little dicey at 64k buffers
>on XP64 (ASIO meter occasionally spiking). With Win XP32, the ASIO load during
>dubbing on this same project is much lower and the overall system performance
>is more solid. Sample streaming in BFD at low latencies is much improved.
>
>At higher latencies the ASIO performance is roughly equal but the overall
>performance nod goes to the XP64 because it can utilize all 4 x G of RAM
>for use with virtual instruments. However, the main point of getting this
>machine was to take advantage of it's capacity for operating at lower latencies.
>As far as low latency performance is concerned, the margin between the two
>OS'es give Win XP32 a significant edge.........significant enough to where
>I have decided to go exclusively with XP32. I have a fairly powerful systemlinked
>slave DAW to take up the slack if I run low on RAM in a mix and need more
>VSTi's (not to mention the freeze function).
>
>and yes James......I'm sure a Mac Pro can run circles around this, but a
>Mac Pro, tricked out to this degree would cost considerably more ;o).
>
>For me these days, it's about achieving a certain benchmark and that benchmark
>is to be able to use a native DAW with no audible latency, in the same way
>that I used Paris. that has been accomplished now.
>
>I just wanted to give you guys a heads up about this and also to apologize
>for being such a cantankerous wiseass (even more than usual) lately. I did
>buy some Brie recently as a gesture of solidarity with my socialist bretherin
>in France....
>
>Cheers,
>
>;o)
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| Re: New DAW.......Native has arrived [message #98912 is a reply to message #98903] |
Sat, 24 May 2008 10:06 |
Bill L
Messages: 766
Registered: August 2006
|
Senior Member |
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How much was that machine, 'cause I'm about due for a new DAW and I
would love to get the low latency thing nailed once and for all. One
question: what are you using for input monitoring reverbs when you crank
it down like that? Outboard or plug?
If they could just make Cubase sand colored it probably would sound like
Paris. Honestly (and I know I will get dissed for this) I never really
heard the "Paris sound" particularly. Maybe because it was not even
close to what I was used to in my analog studio. In support of that, the
engineers who made Paris said there never was any compression going on
on the mix buss. It's the desert colors, dudes. They look warm so you
mix warm... could be true, actually.
Deej wrote:
> Well, the last couple of months or so has been one of the most stressful periods
> of my entire life as far as work goes. Chuck Norris jokes seemed like more
> of a sane reality than the insane reality of what's been going on here. I
> got sick in February.......real sick, and wasn't able to really work for
> about 3 weeks and during that time I needed to be working at least 50 hours
> a week on a drilling program that I had committed to, so when I got well
> enough to work, the shit had hit the fan, I was behind the 8 ball and so
> I spent the next 60 days trying to stay ahead of 5 drilling rigs that had
> moved into this area (because I told them I could do what needed to get done
> to keep them busy)and unless I pulled a rabbit out of my hat, they were going
> to sit idle to the tune of $17,000.00 per day....and that was just for one
> client. another one had me doing some other stuff that was even more stressful
> so anyway, I know I've been abraisive and cranky oand a little whacked out
> so thanks for not kicking me out of the group..........and during this time,
> I've had Chris Ludwig build me a new DAW.
>
> It's an Intel Quad Core machine and is capable of playing back 40 tracks
> at 1.5ms latency while recording 8 more with a 70% DSP load of UAD-1 plugins.
> In Parisspeak, that's roughly a 3 MEC system running lots of UAD-1 plugins
> at zero audible latency with a wonderful cue system, VSTi's, and every bell
> and whistle you can imagine, without using ASIO direct monitoring.
> ADK did a great job on this box and it wasn't real expensive. the cores are
> running at 3.2GHz per, it's got 4G of RAM and 4 x 500G 7200 RPM SATAII HD's
> configured into a RAID 10 Array. I'm also running a pair of 750G SATAII drives
> for audio samples and backup, respectively.
>
> Does it sound like Paris? Nope, but it sounds very good. It's possible to
> mix in Native and get "BIG". It's just a different prescription. The Neve
> 5042 tape emulator doesn't hurt either.
>
> I ordered it with two system drives, one running Win XP Pro and the other
> running Win XP x64 Pro. The first drive I tested was with Win XP64. The good
> news was that this DAW is quite a bit more powerful than my dualcore Opteron
> 185 so I was able to achieve the 1.5 ms latency target that I was hoping
> for. My VSTis' are as follows:
> GPO
> Ivory
> NI B4
> NI Bandstand
> BFD
> BFDII
> Jamstix II
> Trilogy
> Drumagog
>
> I was able to load all but one of my VSTi's and that one was Ivory. This
> one wouldn't play nice with a 64 bit OS.
>
> Despite speculation from Native Instruments that the NI installer would not
> work in Win XP x64........all of them did load.....NI B4II, GPO and Bandstand
> work fine in both the standalone and VSTi formats. It's just a matter of
> pointing them elsewhere instead of the default path it wants to use and they
> run just fine.
>
> Performance was good at low latency, but not "as good" as I had hoped with
> high track counts. For instance, I had 60 + tracks record enabled at both
> 32k and 64k buffers and was getting between 25% to 35% CPU loads. Also, there
> was quite a bit of ASIO loading in Cubase when streaming samples in BFD and
> BFD2. More really than with my older Opteron system.
>
> After working a while with XP64 I started loading the same programs on the
> system drive running Windows XP32. I can record enable over 100 tracks at
> 32k buffers an the CPU load is around 10%.
>
> An even bigger difference is seen when playing back a project that is loaded
> down with plugin count. Playing back a 40 track project with a 70% UAD-1
> DSP while recording 8 x more tracks was getting a little dicey at 64k buffers
> on XP64 (ASIO meter occasionally spiking). With Win XP32, the ASIO load during
> dubbing on this same project is much lower and the overall system performance
> is more solid. Sample streaming in BFD at low latencies is much improved.
>
> At higher latencies the ASIO performance is roughly equal but the overall
> performance nod goes to the XP64 because it can utilize all 4 x G of RAM
> for use with virtual instruments. However, the main point of getting this
> machine was to take advantage of it's capacity for operating at lower latencies.
> As far as low latency performance is concerned, the margin between the two
> OS'es give Win XP32 a significant edge.........significant enough to where
> I have decided to go exclusively with XP32. I have a fairly powerful systemlinked
> slave DAW to take up the slack if I run low on RAM in a mix and need more
> VSTi's (not to mention the freeze function).
>
> and yes James......I'm sure a Mac Pro can run circles around this, but a
> Mac Pro, tricked out to this degree would cost considerably more ;o).
>
> For me these days, it's about achieving a certain benchmark and that benchmark
> is to be able to use a native DAW with no audible latency, in the same way
> that I used Paris. that has been accomplished now.
>
> I just wanted to give you guys a heads up about this and also to apologize
> for being such a cantankerous wiseass (even more than usual) lately. I did
> buy some Brie recently as a gesture of solidarity with my socialist bretherin
> in France....
>
> Cheers,
>
> ;o)
|
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| Re: New DAW.......Native has arrived [message #98919 is a reply to message #98903] |
Sat, 24 May 2008 16:17 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Chuck Norris built a DAW using a Commodore 64, and after just one might
roundhouse kick it now runs faster than any system ever built. With not
just zero latency but negative latency. It records what he plays BEFORE
he plays it...
Glad to hear you're over the rough patch with your stress factor and
health, Deej. Congrats on the new system!
Take a couple of days off why doncha?
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
Deej wrote:
> Well, the last couple of months or so has been one of the most stressful periods
> of my entire life as far as work goes. Chuck Norris jokes seemed like more
> of a sane reality than the insane reality of what's been going on here. I
> got sick in February.......real sick, and wasn't able to really work for
> about 3 weeks and during that time I needed to be working at least 50 hours
> a week on a drilling program that I had committed to, so when I got well
> enough to work, the shit had hit the fan, I was behind the 8 ball and so
> I spent the next 60 days trying to stay ahead of 5 drilling rigs that had
> moved into this area (because I told them I could do what needed to get done
> to keep them busy)and unless I pulled a rabbit out of my hat, they were going
> to sit idle to the tune of $17,000.00 per day....and that was just for one
> client. another one had me doing some other stuff that was even more stressful
> so anyway, I know I've been abraisive and cranky oand a little whacked out
> so thanks for not kicking me out of the group..........and during this time,
> I've had Chris Ludwig build me a new DAW.
>
> It's an Intel Quad Core machine and is capable of playing back 40 tracks
> at 1.5ms latency while recording 8 more with a 70% DSP load of UAD-1 plugins.
> In Parisspeak, that's roughly a 3 MEC system running lots of UAD-1 plugins
> at zero audible latency with a wonderful cue system, VSTi's, and every bell
> and whistle you can imagine, without using ASIO direct monitoring.
> ADK did a great job on this box and it wasn't real expensive. the cores are
> running at 3.2GHz per, it's got 4G of RAM and 4 x 500G 7200 RPM SATAII HD's
> configured into a RAID 10 Array. I'm also running a pair of 750G SATAII drives
> for audio samples and backup, respectively.
>
> Does it sound like Paris? Nope, but it sounds very good. It's possible to
> mix in Native and get "BIG". It's just a different prescription. The Neve
> 5042 tape emulator doesn't hurt either.
>
> I ordered it with two system drives, one running Win XP Pro and the other
> running Win XP x64 Pro. The first drive I tested was with Win XP64. The good
> news was that this DAW is quite a bit more powerful than my dualcore Opteron
> 185 so I was able to achieve the 1.5 ms latency target that I was hoping
> for. My VSTis' are as follows:
> GPO
> Ivory
> NI B4
> NI Bandstand
> BFD
> BFDII
> Jamstix II
> Trilogy
> Drumagog
>
> I was able to load all but one of my VSTi's and that one was Ivory. This
> one wouldn't play nice with a 64 bit OS.
>
> Despite speculation from Native Instruments that the NI installer would not
> work in Win XP x64........all of them did load.....NI B4II, GPO and Bandstand
> work fine in both the standalone and VSTi formats. It's just a matter of
> pointing them elsewhere instead of the default path it wants to use and they
> run just fine.
>
> Performance was good at low latency, but not "as good" as I had hoped with
> high track counts. For instance, I had 60 + tracks record enabled at both
> 32k and 64k buffers and was getting between 25% to 35% CPU loads. Also, there
> was quite a bit of ASIO loading in Cubase when streaming samples in BFD and
> BFD2. More really than with my older Opteron system.
>
> After working a while with XP64 I started loading the same programs on the
> system drive running Windows XP32. I can record enable over 100 tracks at
> 32k buffers an the CPU load is around 10%.
>
> An even bigger difference is seen when playing back a project that is loaded
> down with plugin count. Playing back a 40 track project with a 70% UAD-1
> DSP while recording 8 x more tracks was getting a little dicey at 64k buffers
> on XP64 (ASIO meter occasionally spiking). With Win XP32, the ASIO load during
> dubbing on this same project is much lower and the overall system performance
> is more solid. Sample streaming in BFD at low latencies is much improved.
>
> At higher latencies the ASIO performance is roughly equal but the overall
> performance nod goes to the XP64 because it can utilize all 4 x G of RAM
> for use with virtual instruments. However, the main point of getting this
> machine was to take advantage of it's capacity for operating at lower latencies.
> As far as low latency performance is concerned, the margin between the two
> OS'es give Win XP32 a significant edge.........significant enough to where
> I have decided to go exclusively with XP32. I have a fairly powerful systemlinked
> slave DAW to take up the slack if I run low on RAM in a mix and need more
> VSTi's (not to mention the freeze function).
>
> and yes James......I'm sure a Mac Pro can run circles around this, but a
> Mac Pro, tricked out to this degree would cost considerably more ;o).
>
> For me these days, it's about achieving a certain benchmark and that benchmark
> is to be able to use a native DAW with no audible latency, in the same way
> that I used Paris. that has been accomplished now.
>
> I just wanted to give you guys a heads up about this and also to apologize
> for being such a cantankerous wiseass (even more than usual) lately. I did
> buy some Brie recently as a gesture of solidarity with my socialist bretherin
> in France....
>
> Cheers,
>
> ;o)
|
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| Re: New DAW.......Native has arrived [message #98921 is a reply to message #98903] |
Sat, 24 May 2008 18:19 |
mike audet[3]
Messages: 88
Registered: June 2008
|
Member |
|
|
Hi Deej,
Thanks for sharing this. The latency is the one issue that I simply could
never deal with in a native daw.
It is really encouraging to hear that native may be ready for prime time.
I wonder if a quad core phenom would do as well as the core 2.
Would NoLimt!, the compressors, and the verbs in vst format be something
you would use in this new beast? I'm thinking that keeping the algos alive
in native form will be the best way to keep Paris alive over the long term,
and also keep you ex-pats in the fold.
All the best,
Mike
"Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>
>Well, the last couple of months or so has been one of the most stressful
periods
>of my entire life as far as work goes. Chuck Norris jokes seemed like more
>of a sane reality than the insane reality of what's been going on here.
I
>got sick in February.......real sick, and wasn't able to really work for
>about 3 weeks and during that time I needed to be working at least 50 hours
>a week on a drilling program that I had committed to, so when I got well
>enough to work, the shit had hit the fan, I was behind the 8 ball and so
>I spent the next 60 days trying to stay ahead of 5 drilling rigs that had
>moved into this area (because I told them I could do what needed to get
done
>to keep them busy)and unless I pulled a rabbit out of my hat, they were
going
>to sit idle to the tune of $17,000.00 per day....and that was just for one
>client. another one had me doing some other stuff that was even more stressful
>so anyway, I know I've been abraisive and cranky oand a little whacked out
>so thanks for not kicking me out of the group..........and during this time,
>I've had Chris Ludwig build me a new DAW.
>
>It's an Intel Quad Core machine and is capable of playing back 40 tracks
>at 1.5ms latency while recording 8 more with a 70% DSP load of UAD-1 plugins.
>In Parisspeak, that's roughly a 3 MEC system running lots of UAD-1 plugins
>at zero audible latency with a wonderful cue system, VSTi's, and every bell
>and whistle you can imagine, without using ASIO direct monitoring.
>ADK did a great job on this box and it wasn't real expensive. the cores
are
>running at 3.2GHz per, it's got 4G of RAM and 4 x 500G 7200 RPM SATAII HD's
>configured into a RAID 10 Array. I'm also running a pair of 750G SATAII
drives
>for audio samples and backup, respectively.
>
>Does it sound like Paris? Nope, but it sounds very good. It's possible to
>mix in Native and get "BIG". It's just a different prescription. The Neve
>5042 tape emulator doesn't hurt either.
>
>I ordered it with two system drives, one running Win XP Pro and the other
>running Win XP x64 Pro. The first drive I tested was with Win XP64. The
good
>news was that this DAW is quite a bit more powerful than my dualcore Opteron
>185 so I was able to achieve the 1.5 ms latency target that I was hoping
>for. My VSTis' are as follows:
>GPO
>Ivory
>NI B4
>NI Bandstand
>BFD
>BFDII
>Jamstix II
>Trilogy
>Drumagog
>
>I was able to load all but one of my VSTi's and that one was Ivory. This
>one wouldn't play nice with a 64 bit OS.
>
>Despite speculation from Native Instruments that the NI installer would
not
>work in Win XP x64........all of them did load.....NI B4II, GPO and Bandstand
>work fine in both the standalone and VSTi formats. It's just a matter of
>pointing them elsewhere instead of the default path it wants to use and
they
>run just fine.
>
>Performance was good at low latency, but not "as good" as I had hoped with
>high track counts. For instance, I had 60 + tracks record enabled at both
>32k and 64k buffers and was getting between 25% to 35% CPU loads. Also,
there
>was quite a bit of ASIO loading in Cubase when streaming samples in BFD
and
>BFD2. More really than with my older Opteron system.
>
>After working a while with XP64 I started loading the same programs on the
>system drive running Windows XP32. I can record enable over 100 tracks at
>32k buffers an the CPU load is around 10%.
>
>An even bigger difference is seen when playing back a project that is loaded
>down with plugin count. Playing back a 40 track project with a 70% UAD-1
>DSP while recording 8 x more tracks was getting a little dicey at 64k buffers
>on XP64 (ASIO meter occasionally spiking). With Win XP32, the ASIO load
during
>dubbing on this same project is much lower and the overall system performance
>is more solid. Sample streaming in BFD at low latencies is much improved.
>
>At higher latencies the ASIO performance is roughly equal but the overall
>performance nod goes to the XP64 because it can utilize all 4 x G of RAM
>for use with virtual instruments. However, the main point of getting this
>machine was to take advantage of it's capacity for operating at lower latencies.
>As far as low latency performance is concerned, the margin between the two
>OS'es give Win XP32 a significant edge.........significant enough to where
>I have decided to go exclusively with XP32. I have a fairly powerful systemlinked
>slave DAW to take up the slack if I run low on RAM in a mix and need more
>VSTi's (not to mention the freeze function).
>
>and yes James......I'm sure a Mac Pro can run circles around this, but a
>Mac Pro, tricked out to this degree would cost considerably more ;o).
>
>For me these days, it's about achieving a certain benchmark and that benchmark
>is to be able to use a native DAW with no audible latency, in the same way
>that I used Paris. that has been accomplished now.
>
>I just wanted to give you guys a heads up about this and also to apologize
>for being such a cantankerous wiseass (even more than usual) lately. I did
>buy some Brie recently as a gesture of solidarity with my socialist bretherin
>in France....
>
>Cheers,
>
>;o)
|
|
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|
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| Re: New DAW.......Native has arrived [message #98940 is a reply to message #98903] |
Sun, 25 May 2008 10:29 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hey Deej,
Glad you're feeling better. I've developed a general curiosity about the
domestic oil/gas business in my new job. I don't envy you doing what you
do.
Also nice to see native is getting good enough to be the real deal for you.
I've been talking about native for years, as you know, and in the long run
we'll _all_ be doing native. And I mean the Mutt Lang types as well. Moore's
law spares no one.
My fave thing about the quality of native is that it's letting me put my
big bucks where it really matters, into a smaller number of choices pieces
of analog gear like mics and analog synths.
TCB
"Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>
>Well, the last couple of months or so has been one of the most stressful
periods
>of my entire life as far as work goes. Chuck Norris jokes seemed like more
>of a sane reality than the insane reality of what's been going on here.
I
>got sick in February.......real sick, and wasn't able to really work for
>about 3 weeks and during that time I needed to be working at least 50 hours
>a week on a drilling program that I had committed to, so when I got well
>enough to work, the shit had hit the fan, I was behind the 8 ball and so
>I spent the next 60 days trying to stay ahead of 5 drilling rigs that had
>moved into this area (because I told them I could do what needed to get
done
>to keep them busy)and unless I pulled a rabbit out of my hat, they were
going
>to sit idle to the tune of $17,000.00 per day....and that was just for one
>client. another one had me doing some other stuff that was even more stressful
>so anyway, I know I've been abraisive and cranky oand a little whacked out
>so thanks for not kicking me out of the group..........and during this time,
>I've had Chris Ludwig build me a new DAW.
>
>It's an Intel Quad Core machine and is capable of playing back 40 tracks
>at 1.5ms latency while recording 8 more with a 70% DSP load of UAD-1 plugins.
>In Parisspeak, that's roughly a 3 MEC system running lots of UAD-1 plugins
>at zero audible latency with a wonderful cue system, VSTi's, and every bell
>and whistle you can imagine, without using ASIO direct monitoring.
>ADK did a great job on this box and it wasn't real expensive. the cores
are
>running at 3.2GHz per, it's got 4G of RAM and 4 x 500G 7200 RPM SATAII HD's
>configured into a RAID 10 Array. I'm also running a pair of 750G SATAII
drives
>for audio samples and backup, respectively.
>
>Does it sound like Paris? Nope, but it sounds very good. It's possible to
>mix in Native and get "BIG". It's just a different prescription. The Neve
>5042 tape emulator doesn't hurt either.
>
>I ordered it with two system drives, one running Win XP Pro and the other
>running Win XP x64 Pro. The first drive I tested was with Win XP64. The
good
>news was that this DAW is quite a bit more powerful than my dualcore Opteron
>185 so I was able to achieve the 1.5 ms latency target that I was hoping
>for. My VSTis' are as follows:
>GPO
>Ivory
>NI B4
>NI Bandstand
>BFD
>BFDII
>Jamstix II
>Trilogy
>Drumagog
>
>I was able to load all but one of my VSTi's and that one was Ivory. This
>one wouldn't play nice with a 64 bit OS.
>
>Despite speculation from Native Instruments that the NI installer would
not
>work in Win XP x64........all of them did load.....NI B4II, GPO and Bandstand
>work fine in both the standalone and VSTi formats. It's just a matter of
>pointing them elsewhere instead of the default path it wants to use and
they
>run just fine.
>
>Performance was good at low latency, but not "as good" as I had hoped with
>high track counts. For instance, I had 60 + tracks record enabled at both
>32k and 64k buffers and was getting between 25% to 35% CPU loads. Also,
there
>was quite a bit of ASIO loading in Cubase when streaming samples in BFD
and
>BFD2. More really than with my older Opteron system.
>
>After working a while with XP64 I started loading the same programs on the
>system drive running Windows XP32. I can record enable over 100 tracks at
>32k buffers an the CPU load is around 10%.
>
>An even bigger difference is seen when playing back a project that is loaded
>down with plugin count. Playing back a 40 track project with a 70% UAD-1
>DSP while recording 8 x more tracks was getting a little dicey at 64k buffers
>on XP64 (ASIO meter occasionally spiking). With Win XP32, the ASIO load
during
>dubbing on this same project is much lower and the overall system performance
>is more solid. Sample streaming in BFD at low latencies is much improved.
>
>At higher latencies the ASIO performance is roughly equal but the overall
>performance nod goes to the XP64 because it can utilize all 4 x G of RAM
>for use with virtual instruments. However, the main point of getting this
>machine was to take advantage of it's capacity for operating at lower latencies.
>As far as low latency performance is concerned, the margin between the two
>OS'es give Win XP32 a significant edge.........significant enough to where
>I have decided to go exclusively with XP32. I have a fairly powerful systemlinked
>slave DAW to take up the slack if I run low on RAM in a mix and need more
>VSTi's (not to mention the freeze function).
>
>and yes James......I'm sure a Mac Pro can run circles around this, but a
>Mac Pro, tricked out to this degree would cost considerably more ;o).
>
>For me these days, it's about achieving a certain benchmark and that benchmark
>is to be able to use a native DAW with no audible latency, in the same way
>that I used Paris. that has been accomplished now.
>
>I just wanted to give you guys a heads up about this and also to apologize
>for being such a cantankerous wiseass (even more than usual) lately. I did
>buy some Brie recently as a gesture of solidarity with my socialist bretherin
>in France....
>
>Cheers,
>
>;o)
|
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| Re: New DAW.......Native has arrived [message #98958 is a reply to message #98953] |
Mon, 26 May 2008 03:07 |
Mike Audet
Messages: 294
Registered: December 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi DJ,
This is what they said:
Hello,
latency is measured from inout to output.
Regards,
Daniel Fuchs
RME
Those are spectacular numbers for a native system. Even at 2.25 ms, that's
pretty good.
Very cool. Thanks for letting us know about it.
Mike
Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>
>"Mike Audet" <mike@..> wrote:
>>
>>DJ, are the latency values round trip or based on input and output buffers?
>>
>>
>>I emailed RME the same questions, but I thought you might know.
>>
>>All the best,
>>
>>Mike
>
>Mike,
>
>I think thereis an extra 32k of round trip latency involved with the RME
>gear, so 64k buffers (a/k/a 1.5ms latency) is actually around 2.25ms. RME
>won't admit that there this voodoo going on so I'd be surprised if they
answer
>you. AFAIK, the LynxTwo series of cards has the best low latency performance,
>or at least that's what I read on the various forums. chris Ludwig would
>probaly be a better authority on this than I.
>
>;o)
>
>
|
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|
|
| Re: New DAW.......Native has arrived [message #98982 is a reply to message #98953] |
Tue, 27 May 2008 09:52 |
Chris Ludwig
Messages: 868
Registered: May 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi DJ,
RME's driver reports the ASIO buffer and the AD/DA latency of any of it's in board converters.
You also have the added PDC of the host app getting factored in.
There is also added latency in the samples range of the multiple audio devices like any other digital hardware.
All you digital gear and AD/DA converters are adding to some extant to the over In to Out latency.
It is not possible for the sound card to know the exact AD/DA latency performance of all your converters.
They are the only company that I Know of that even lets there driver report their latency in detail to the ASIO host.
Most other hide the the info and only report the driver latency only.
You will see this allot on the the low end firewire devices.
The highest number of support called we get are on Tascam and Lynx.
90% of the time they are not because of user error, i.e., not setting up the clock right.
This is from people that use our systems and from people that just purchased the gear from use.
That said though one the best bang for the buck converter sound card combos is a RME AES32 PCI card and a Lynx Aurora 16.
No proprietary cabling and more reliable clocking and actual fully functional hardware monitoring.
The only other high I/O combo I've seen that very good quality AD/DA that isn't very high priced would be using a
RME MADI card with a SSL Alpha Link MADI box.
24 high quality analog AD/DA and 24 AES or ADAT connections for around $5000 including the sound card.
Chris
Deej wrote:
> "Mike Audet" <mike@..> wrote:
>> DJ, are the latency values round trip or based on input and output buffers?
>>
>>
>> I emailed RME the same questions, but I thought you might know.
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Mike
>
> Mike,
>
> I think thereis an extra 32k of round trip latency involved with the RME
> gear, so 64k buffers (a/k/a 1.5ms latency) is actually around 2.25ms. RME
> won't admit that there this voodoo going on so I'd be surprised if they answer
> you. AFAIK, the LynxTwo series of cards has the best low latency performance,
> or at least that's what I read on the various forums. chris Ludwig would
> probaly be a better authority on this than I.
>
> ;o)
>
>
--
Chris Ludwig
ADK Pro Audio
(859) 635-5762
www.adkproaudio.com
chrisl@adkproaudio.com
|
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| Re: New DAW.......Native has arrived [message #98984 is a reply to message #98982] |
Tue, 27 May 2008 15:55 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>Hi DJ,
>
>RME's driver reports the ASIO buffer and the AD/DA latency of any of it's
in board converters.
>You also have the added PDC of the host app getting factored in.
>There is also added latency in the samples range of the multiple audio devices
like
>any other digital hardware.
>All you digital gear and AD/DA converters are adding to some extant to the
over In to
>Out latency.
>It is not possible for the sound card to know the exact AD/DA latency performance
of
>all your converters.
>They are the only company that I Know of that even lets there driver report
their latency
>in detail to the ASIO host.
>Most other hide the the info and only report the driver latency only.
>You will see this allot on the the low end firewire devices.
>
>The highest number of support called we get are on Tascam and Lynx.
>90% of the time they are not because of user error, i.e., not setting up
the clock right.
>This is from people that use our systems and from people that just purchased
the gear
>from use.
>
>That said though one the best bang for the buck converter sound card combos
is a RME
>AES32 PCI card and a Lynx Aurora 16.
>No proprietary cabling and more reliable clocking and actual fully functional
hardware
>monitoring.
>
>The only other high I/O combo I've seen that very good quality AD/DA that
isn't very
>high priced would be using a
>RME MADI card with a SSL Alpha Link MADI box.
>24 high quality analog AD/DA and 24 AES or ADAT connections for around $5000
including
>the sound card.
>
>Chris
>
>
I guess your speaking to mainly PC solutions. Chris, since you speaking
of solid systems, what are your thoughts about the Apogee stuff? Have you
tested it?
>
>
>
>Deej wrote:
>> "Mike Audet" <mike@..> wrote:
>>> DJ, are the latency values round trip or based on input and output buffers?
>>>
>>>
>>> I emailed RME the same questions, but I thought you might know.
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Mike
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> I think thereis an extra 32k of round trip latency involved with the RME
>> gear, so 64k buffers (a/k/a 1.5ms latency) is actually around 2.25ms.
RME
>> won't admit that there this voodoo going on so I'd be surprised if they
answer
>> you. AFAIK, the LynxTwo series of cards has the best low latency performance,
>> or at least that's what I read on the various forums. chris Ludwig would
>> probaly be a better authority on this than I.
>>
>> ;o)
>>
>>
>
>--
>Chris Ludwig
>
>ADK Pro Audio
>(859) 635-5762
>www.adkproaudio.com
>chrisl@adkproaudio.com
|
|
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| Re: New DAW.......Native has arrived [message #98987 is a reply to message #98984] |
Wed, 28 May 2008 10:44 |
Chris Ludwig
Messages: 868
Registered: May 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
HI James,
I've had a chance to use a symphony system once so far. It was very nice.
The latency was no better or worse than another PCI/PCI-e audio interface I've used on a MAC. But that was when it was still 10.4.
Seems to be allot of reports of people having trouble lately with Apogee and 10.5.
But that could just as well be user error from some of the reports I see.
A RME MADI PCI-e card at 96k will get the same low latencies as the Apogee does at 96k.
At 44.1k the Apogee perform like the RME does at 44.1k which is in the 2/3 ms range.
It's Logic "integration" is I guess a bonus for people that don't want to option the mixer panel on the apple menu bar.
It is a great value if you already have a bunch of Apogee but if not then it is not at all a good deal. More proprietary than Digi practically.
RME MADI PCI-e cards work great on MAC with any of the major software programs I've used.
The SSL RME MADI card combo would still be a untouchable combo atm.
Both RME and SSL will be releasing more I/O options especially large I/O ones over the next 1 or 2 with MADI connectivity.
Chris
James McCloskey wrote:
> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>> Hi DJ,
>>
>> RME's driver reports the ASIO buffer and the AD/DA latency of any of it's
> in board converters.
>> You also have the added PDC of the host app getting factored in.
>> There is also added latency in the samples range of the multiple audio devices
> like
>> any other digital hardware.
>> All you digital gear and AD/DA converters are adding to some extant to the
> over In to
>> Out latency.
>> It is not possible for the sound card to know the exact AD/DA latency performance
> of
>> all your converters.
>> They are the only company that I Know of that even lets there driver report
> their latency
>> in detail to the ASIO host.
>> Most other hide the the info and only report the driver latency only.
>> You will see this allot on the the low end firewire devices.
>>
>> The highest number of support called we get are on Tascam and Lynx.
>> 90% of the time they are not because of user error, i.e., not setting up
> the clock right.
>> This is from people that use our systems and from people that just purchased
> the gear
>>from use.
>> That said though one the best bang for the buck converter sound card combos
> is a RME
>> AES32 PCI card and a Lynx Aurora 16.
>> No proprietary cabling and more reliable clocking and actual fully functional
> hardware
>> monitoring.
>>
>> The only other high I/O combo I've seen that very good quality AD/DA that
> isn't very
>> high priced would be using a
>> RME MADI card with a SSL Alpha Link MADI box.
>> 24 high quality analog AD/DA and 24 AES or ADAT connections for around $5000
> including
>> the sound card.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>
> I guess your speaking to mainly PC solutions. Chris, since you speaking
> of solid systems, what are your thoughts about the Apogee stuff? Have you
> tested it?
>
>
>>
>>
>> Deej wrote:
>>> "Mike Audet" <mike@..> wrote:
>>>> DJ, are the latency values round trip or based on input and output buffers?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I emailed RME the same questions, but I thought you might know.
>>>>
>>>> All the best,
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> I think thereis an extra 32k of round trip latency involved with the RME
>>> gear, so 64k buffers (a/k/a 1.5ms latency) is actually around 2.25ms.
> RME
>>> won't admit that there this voodoo going on so I'd be surprised if they
> answer
>>> you. AFAIK, the LynxTwo series of cards has the best low latency performance,
>>> or at least that's what I read on the various forums. chris Ludwig would
>>> probaly be a better authority on this than I.
>>>
>>> ;o)
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Chris Ludwig
>>
>> ADK Pro Audio
>> (859) 635-5762
>> www.adkproaudio.com
>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com
>
--
Chris Ludwig
ADK Pro Audio
(859) 635-5762
www.adkproaudio.com
chrisl@adkproaudio.com
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