Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Reminder to Check all your cab's speakers when micing!
| Reminder to Check all your cab's speakers when micing! [message #67776] |
Sat, 06 May 2006 09:43  |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
|
|
I'm recording a demo for this band called Lhasa Vector, and we
started setting up & getting tones last night... kinda
interesting the way we're doing the drums, but I'll get into
that in a minute. Anyway, so we're setting up the primary
guitarist's rig, and we're trying a Marshall 4x12 cabinet, and
also a Mesa 4x12 cabinet... I have no idea of the speaker
models in each, but he says he likes certain characteristics of
both, so can we try a/b-ing them? I say sure, no prob... he has
a Mesa triple rectumfryer head that has two speaker outs, so he
can play through both cabs at the same time & we'll use the
same kind of signal chain on each one to record a couple test
files so he can hear the difference between the two cabinets.
So, we record him playing a bit, each cabinet mic'ed with an
Audix i5 going through a channel on the Focusrite Red-8... the
Mesa cab is definitely somewhat louder than the Marshall - not
by tons, but it's apparent. It's also brighter & tighter.
So, as we're playing back each track & I'm going back & forth
between them: "Here's the Mesa... here's the Marshall... here's
both... 'both' sounds pretty good.", I'm noticing that the
Marshall speaker sounds really "soft" or "loose" - not just
compared to the Mesa cab, but in it's own right. Now, he likes
the way this is sounding, and he's saying he prefers it to the
Mesa... like I said, it's a little softer in tone, a little
less tight, and definitely "fuzzier" (though not "ready to be
re-coned kinda fuzzy".
Anyway, I say: "Let's, just for grins, try something, OK?, I
want to see what another speaker in that Marshall cab sounds
like... so I take the mic off the Mesa, put it on the speaker
right next to the one we're micing in the Marshall cab, and
have him play again... lo & behold, the other speaker sounds
different... not necessarily better, but definitely somewhat
different. I asked him if he'd had to replace any of the
speakers, or had any of the speakers re-coned lately & he
said: "no, never"... bought the cabinet new, has had it for a
few years, and has never had to have it worked on.
Bottom line, the other speaker is a little bit tighter-sounding
& less "fuzzy" than the first one - there is absolutely no
perceiveable difference in volume between them, and the
waveforms are right at the same levels; and in fact, when I
threw one mic out of phase for a second while he was playing,
they nulled to the point where I couldn't hear it at all, but
there's definitely a difference in tone.
In any event, he likes the sound of the combination of the two
speakers, so that's what we're going with, but my point is:
CHECK ALL THE SPEAKERS! I know there's been times when I've
done this, and also times when I've mic'ed up a cab, said:
"He-EEYYY that sounds pretty good right there!" and gone with
it... I wonder if I had checked all the speakers in any of
those events, we might have ended up saying: "DAAAAAMN, that's
even BETTER!"
My only regret at this stage is that the other guitar player
really liked that i5/Mucusrite Red combination he was hearing,
but unfortunately, I only have two i5's, and two channels
of "red". We didn't dial in his sounds last night because at
first he said he wanted to do his parts as overdubs once the
first guitar was laid down, but as we were wrapping up for the
evening, he changed his mind & now wants to do them at the same
time. I have other mics & pres, of course, but I dunno if we're
gonna get something he's happy with now that he's heard that
particular combination... the saving grace might be that
although he's got the same kind of amp head as the first guy,
he'll be using the Mesa cab, and he says his overall tone is
different from the first guy's too... he's trying to fit into
the freqency range between the bass & the first guitar. Since
these guys de-tune a step & a half, that's gonna be a pretty
low tonal range... I'm thinking maybe I wish I had another TLM-
103 at this point, too LOL if he's going that low I might
need something like that for his tone, just so it's not a big,
muddy, mess! I guess we'll find out today (fingers crossed).
Anyway, I said I'd mention the drum thing 'cause it's kinda
different... the drummer loves his Roland E-kit, which he
incorporates with some live cymbals, as well. So we're using
3 live cymbals, plus live hi-hats, 3 e-kit cymbals, and the e-
kit for kick, snare, and 4 toms (one tom pad plugged into the
hi-hat trigger port, with the brain reprogrammed to strike a
floor tom MIDI note instead of a hi-hat MIDI note). We're
micing the hat with an Earthworks TC-30 (tried a Rode NT-5 too,
but the Earthworks won out by a large margin due to being less
midrangey, having a ton more "air"; and also being an omni, and
as a result, picking up more room ambience). OH's are TLM-
103's, and no, you can't hear the "thwack" on the pads at all
once you get the audio from the e-kit going. The downside to
all this is that the e-kit only has stereo outs, so we're
tracking the MIDI output as well so we can go back & re-trigger
individual tracks for kick, snare, etc for mixing purposes.
So, the stereo outs that are being recorded for the time being
could be considered "scratch" drums, I guess. lol
Just thought I'd mention the drum thing too, because I recall a
few months back someone had posted a question about had anyone
done something like this & how did it work out, etc.
Neil
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| Re: Reminder to Check all your cab's speakers when micing! [message #67780 is a reply to message #67776] |
Sat, 06 May 2006 10:42  |
Bill Lorentzen
Messages: 140
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
One thing I've been wondering about: why are guys detuning like that? Is it
for gtr tone or for the singer? I know this is common for metal these days,
but i don't really get it. And do they up the string size or just let them
flop around? And did you really mean 1 step and 1/2?
Hmm, Bill
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:445cd231$1@linux...
>
> I'm recording a demo for this band called Lhasa Vector, and we
> started setting up & getting tones last night... kinda
> interesting the way we're doing the drums, but I'll get into
> that in a minute. Anyway, so we're setting up the primary
> guitarist's rig, and we're trying a Marshall 4x12 cabinet, and
> also a Mesa 4x12 cabinet... I have no idea of the speaker
> models in each, but he says he likes certain characteristics of
> both, so can we try a/b-ing them? I say sure, no prob... he has
> a Mesa triple rectumfryer head that has two speaker outs, so he
> can play through both cabs at the same time & we'll use the
> same kind of signal chain on each one to record a couple test
> files so he can hear the difference between the two cabinets.
>
> So, we record him playing a bit, each cabinet mic'ed with an
> Audix i5 going through a channel on the Focusrite Red-8... the
> Mesa cab is definitely somewhat louder than the Marshall - not
> by tons, but it's apparent. It's also brighter & tighter.
> So, as we're playing back each track & I'm going back & forth
> between them: "Here's the Mesa... here's the Marshall... here's
> both... 'both' sounds pretty good.", I'm noticing that the
> Marshall speaker sounds really "soft" or "loose" - not just
> compared to the Mesa cab, but in it's own right. Now, he likes
> the way this is sounding, and he's saying he prefers it to the
> Mesa... like I said, it's a little softer in tone, a little
> less tight, and definitely "fuzzier" (though not "ready to be
> re-coned kinda fuzzy".
>
> Anyway, I say: "Let's, just for grins, try something, OK?, I
> want to see what another speaker in that Marshall cab sounds
> like... so I take the mic off the Mesa, put it on the speaker
> right next to the one we're micing in the Marshall cab, and
> have him play again... lo & behold, the other speaker sounds
> different... not necessarily better, but definitely somewhat
> different. I asked him if he'd had to replace any of the
> speakers, or had any of the speakers re-coned lately & he
> said: "no, never"... bought the cabinet new, has had it for a
> few years, and has never had to have it worked on.
>
> Bottom line, the other speaker is a little bit tighter-sounding
> & less "fuzzy" than the first one - there is absolutely no
> perceiveable difference in volume between them, and the
> waveforms are right at the same levels; and in fact, when I
> threw one mic out of phase for a second while he was playing,
> they nulled to the point where I couldn't hear it at all, but
> there's definitely a difference in tone.
>
> In any event, he likes the sound of the combination of the two
> speakers, so that's what we're going with, but my point is:
> CHECK ALL THE SPEAKERS! I know there's been times when I've
> done this, and also times when I've mic'ed up a cab, said:
> "He-EEYYY that sounds pretty good right there!" and gone with
> it... I wonder if I had checked all the speakers in any of
> those events, we might have ended up saying: "DAAAAAMN, that's
> even BETTER!"
>
> My only regret at this stage is that the other guitar player
> really liked that i5/Mucusrite Red combination he was hearing,
> but unfortunately, I only have two i5's, and two channels
> of "red". We didn't dial in his sounds last night because at
> first he said he wanted to do his parts as overdubs once the
> first guitar was laid down, but as we were wrapping up for the
> evening, he changed his mind & now wants to do them at the same
> time. I have other mics & pres, of course, but I dunno if we're
> gonna get something he's happy with now that he's heard that
> particular combination... the saving grace might be that
> although he's got the same kind of amp head as the first guy,
> he'll be using the Mesa cab, and he says his overall tone is
> different from the first guy's too... he's trying to fit into
> the freqency range between the bass & the first guitar. Since
> these guys de-tune a step & a half, that's gonna be a pretty
> low tonal range... I'm thinking maybe I wish I had another TLM-
> 103 at this point, too LOL if he's going that low I might
> need something like that for his tone, just so it's not a big,
> muddy, mess! I guess we'll find out today (fingers crossed).
>
> Anyway, I said I'd mention the drum thing 'cause it's kinda
> different... the drummer loves his Roland E-kit, which he
> incorporates with some live cymbals, as well. So we're using
> 3 live cymbals, plus live hi-hats, 3 e-kit cymbals, and the e-
> kit for kick, snare, and 4 toms (one tom pad plugged into the
> hi-hat trigger port, with the brain reprogrammed to strike a
> floor tom MIDI note instead of a hi-hat MIDI note). We're
> micing the hat with an Earthworks TC-30 (tried a Rode NT-5 too,
> but the Earthworks won out by a large margin due to being less
> midrangey, having a ton more "air"; and also being an omni, and
> as a result, picking up more room ambience). OH's are TLM-
> 103's, and no, you can't hear the "thwack" on the pads at all
> once you get the audio from the e-kit going. The downside to
> all this is that the e-kit only has stereo outs, so we're
> tracking the MIDI output as well so we can go back & re-trigger
> individual tracks for kick, snare, etc for mixing purposes.
> So, the stereo outs that are being recorded for the time being
> could be considered "scratch" drums, I guess. lol
>
> Just thought I'd mention the drum thing too, because I recall a
> few months back someone had posted a question about had anyone
> done something like this & how did it work out, etc.
>
> Neil
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| Re: Reminder to Check all your cab's speakers when micing! [message #67783 is a reply to message #67780] |
Sat, 06 May 2006 10:57 |
neil[1]
Messages: 164
Registered: October 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I think it's just to get more of that even lower-end rumble
& those groin-pounding frequencies than they could get if they
didn't detune. You get the bass player using a 5-string & the
guitars detuned to D or even C in some cases, and you just get
this massive "THUD" when they do those chunky, muted things on
the lower notes. And yeah, they use heavier strings for the
most part... the lightest I've seen guys who play this style
use are: 10 to 46 but some use hybrid sets with a 10-top/heavy
bottom, and some just simply go a bit heavier all the way
across; so it varies.
Neil
"Bill Lorentzen" <bill@lorentzen.ws> wrote:
>One thing I've been wondering about: why are guys detuning like that? Is
it
>for gtr tone or for the singer? I know this is common for metal these days,
>but i don't really get it. And do they up the string size or just let them
>flop around? And did you really mean 1 step and 1/2?
>
>Hmm, Bill
>
>
>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:445cd231$1@linux...
>>
>> I'm recording a demo for this band called Lhasa Vector, and we
>> started setting up & getting tones last night... kinda
>> interesting the way we're doing the drums, but I'll get into
>> that in a minute. Anyway, so we're setting up the primary
>> guitarist's rig, and we're trying a Marshall 4x12 cabinet, and
>> also a Mesa 4x12 cabinet... I have no idea of the speaker
>> models in each, but he says he likes certain characteristics of
>> both, so can we try a/b-ing them? I say sure, no prob... he has
>> a Mesa triple rectumfryer head that has two speaker outs, so he
>> can play through both cabs at the same time & we'll use the
>> same kind of signal chain on each one to record a couple test
>> files so he can hear the difference between the two cabinets.
>>
>> So, we record him playing a bit, each cabinet mic'ed with an
>> Audix i5 going through a channel on the Focusrite Red-8... the
>> Mesa cab is definitely somewhat louder than the Marshall - not
>> by tons, but it's apparent. It's also brighter & tighter.
>> So, as we're playing back each track & I'm going back & forth
>> between them: "Here's the Mesa... here's the Marshall... here's
>> both... 'both' sounds pretty good.", I'm noticing that the
>> Marshall speaker sounds really "soft" or "loose" - not just
>> compared to the Mesa cab, but in it's own right. Now, he likes
>> the way this is sounding, and he's saying he prefers it to the
>> Mesa... like I said, it's a little softer in tone, a little
>> less tight, and definitely "fuzzier" (though not "ready to be
>> re-coned kinda fuzzy".
>>
>> Anyway, I say: "Let's, just for grins, try something, OK?, I
>> want to see what another speaker in that Marshall cab sounds
>> like... so I take the mic off the Mesa, put it on the speaker
>> right next to the one we're micing in the Marshall cab, and
>> have him play again... lo & behold, the other speaker sounds
>> different... not necessarily better, but definitely somewhat
>> different. I asked him if he'd had to replace any of the
>> speakers, or had any of the speakers re-coned lately & he
>> said: "no, never"... bought the cabinet new, has had it for a
>> few years, and has never had to have it worked on.
>>
>> Bottom line, the other speaker is a little bit tighter-sounding
>> & less "fuzzy" than the first one - there is absolutely no
>> perceiveable difference in volume between them, and the
>> waveforms are right at the same levels; and in fact, when I
>> threw one mic out of phase for a second while he was playing,
>> they nulled to the point where I couldn't hear it at all, but
>> there's definitely a difference in tone.
>>
>> In any event, he likes the sound of the combination of the two
>> speakers, so that's what we're going with, but my point is:
>> CHECK ALL THE SPEAKERS! I know there's been times when I've
>> done this, and also times when I've mic'ed up a cab, said:
>> "He-EEYYY that sounds pretty good right there!" and gone with
>> it... I wonder if I had checked all the speakers in any of
>> those events, we might have ended up saying: "DAAAAAMN, that's
>> even BETTER!"
>>
>> My only regret at this stage is that the other guitar player
>> really liked that i5/Mucusrite Red combination he was hearing,
>> but unfortunately, I only have two i5's, and two channels
>> of "red". We didn't dial in his sounds last night because at
>> first he said he wanted to do his parts as overdubs once the
>> first guitar was laid down, but as we were wrapping up for the
>> evening, he changed his mind & now wants to do them at the same
>> time. I have other mics & pres, of course, but I dunno if we're
>> gonna get something he's happy with now that he's heard that
>> particular combination... the saving grace might be that
>> although he's got the same kind of amp head as the first guy,
>> he'll be using the Mesa cab, and he says his overall tone is
>> different from the first guy's too... he's trying to fit into
>> the freqency range between the bass & the first guitar. Since
>> these guys de-tune a step & a half, that's gonna be a pretty
>> low tonal range... I'm thinking maybe I wish I had another TLM-
>> 103 at this point, too LOL if he's going that low I might
>> need something like that for his tone, just so it's not a big,
>> muddy, mess! I guess we'll find out today (fingers crossed).
>>
>> Anyway, I said I'd mention the drum thing 'cause it's kinda
>> different... the drummer loves his Roland E-kit, which he
>> incorporates with some live cymbals, as well. So we're using
>> 3 live cymbals, plus live hi-hats, 3 e-kit cymbals, and the e-
>> kit for kick, snare, and 4 toms (one tom pad plugged into the
>> hi-hat trigger port, with the brain reprogrammed to strike a
>> floor tom MIDI note instead of a hi-hat MIDI note). We're
>> micing the hat with an Earthworks TC-30 (tried a Rode NT-5 too,
>> but the Earthworks won out by a large margin due to being less
>> midrangey, having a ton more "air"; and also being an omni, and
>> as a result, picking up more room ambience). OH's are TLM-
>> 103's, and no, you can't hear the "thwack" on the pads at all
>> once you get the audio from the e-kit going. The downside to
>> all this is that the e-kit only has stereo outs, so we're
>> tracking the MIDI output as well so we can go back & re-trigger
>> individual tracks for kick, snare, etc for mixing purposes.
>> So, the stereo outs that are being recorded for the time being
>> could be considered "scratch" drums, I guess. lol
>>
>> Just thought I'd mention the drum thing too, because I recall a
>> few months back someone had posted a question about had anyone
>> done something like this & how did it work out, etc.
>>
>> Neil
>
>
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| Re: Reminder to Check all your cab's speakers when micing! [message #67787 is a reply to message #67776] |
Sat, 06 May 2006 12:13 |
Don Nafe
Messages: 1206
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I really thought you were going to say the Marshall cab wasn't working and
the mic was picking up bleed from the boogie...now that would have been
funny
DOn
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:445cd231$1@linux...
>
> I'm recording a demo for this band called Lhasa Vector, and we
> started setting up & getting tones last night... kinda
> interesting the way we're doing the drums, but I'll get into
> that in a minute. Anyway, so we're setting up the primary
> guitarist's rig, and we're trying a Marshall 4x12 cabinet, and
> also a Mesa 4x12 cabinet... I have no idea of the speaker
> models in each, but he says he likes certain characteristics of
> both, so can we try a/b-ing them? I say sure, no prob... he has
> a Mesa triple rectumfryer head that has two speaker outs, so he
> can play through both cabs at the same time & we'll use the
> same kind of signal chain on each one to record a couple test
> files so he can hear the difference between the two cabinets.
>
> So, we record him playing a bit, each cabinet mic'ed with an
> Audix i5 going through a channel on the Focusrite Red-8... the
> Mesa cab is definitely somewhat louder than the Marshall - not
> by tons, but it's apparent. It's also brighter & tighter.
> So, as we're playing back each track & I'm going back & forth
> between them: "Here's the Mesa... here's the Marshall... here's
> both... 'both' sounds pretty good.", I'm noticing that the
> Marshall speaker sounds really "soft" or "loose" - not just
> compared to the Mesa cab, but in it's own right. Now, he likes
> the way this is sounding, and he's saying he prefers it to the
> Mesa... like I said, it's a little softer in tone, a little
> less tight, and definitely "fuzzier" (though not "ready to be
> re-coned kinda fuzzy".
>
> Anyway, I say: "Let's, just for grins, try something, OK?, I
> want to see what another speaker in that Marshall cab sounds
> like... so I take the mic off the Mesa, put it on the speaker
> right next to the one we're micing in the Marshall cab, and
> have him play again... lo & behold, the other speaker sounds
> different... not necessarily better, but definitely somewhat
> different. I asked him if he'd had to replace any of the
> speakers, or had any of the speakers re-coned lately & he
> said: "no, never"... bought the cabinet new, has had it for a
> few years, and has never had to have it worked on.
>
> Bottom line, the other speaker is a little bit tighter-sounding
> & less "fuzzy" than the first one - there is absolutely no
> perceiveable difference in volume between them, and the
> waveforms are right at the same levels; and in fact, when I
> threw one mic out of phase for a second while he was playing,
> they nulled to the point where I couldn't hear it at all, but
> there's definitely a difference in tone.
>
> In any event, he likes the sound of the combination of the two
> speakers, so that's what we're going with, but my point is:
> CHECK ALL THE SPEAKERS! I know there's been times when I've
> done this, and also times when I've mic'ed up a cab, said:
> "He-EEYYY that sounds pretty good right there!" and gone with
> it... I wonder if I had checked all the speakers in any of
> those events, we might have ended up saying: "DAAAAAMN, that's
> even BETTER!"
>
> My only regret at this stage is that the other guitar player
> really liked that i5/Mucusrite Red combination he was hearing,
> but unfortunately, I only have two i5's, and two channels
> of "red". We didn't dial in his sounds last night because at
> first he said he wanted to do his parts as overdubs once the
> first guitar was laid down, but as we were wrapping up for the
> evening, he changed his mind & now wants to do them at the same
> time. I have other mics & pres, of course, but I dunno if we're
> gonna get something he's happy with now that he's heard that
> particular combination... the saving grace might be that
> although he's got the same kind of amp head as the first guy,
> he'll be using the Mesa cab, and he says his overall tone is
> different from the first guy's too... he's trying to fit into
> the freqency range between the bass & the first guitar. Since
> these guys de-tune a step & a half, that's gonna be a pretty
> low tonal range... I'm thinking maybe I wish I had another TLM-
> 103 at this point, too LOL if he's going that low I might
> need something like that for his tone, just so it's not a big,
> muddy, mess! I guess we'll find out today (fingers crossed).
>
> Anyway, I said I'd mention the drum thing 'cause it's kinda
> different... the drummer loves his Roland E-kit, which he
> incorporates with some live cymbals, as well. So we're using
> 3 live cymbals, plus live hi-hats, 3 e-kit cymbals, and the e-
> kit for kick, snare, and 4 toms (one tom pad plugged into the
> hi-hat trigger port, with the brain reprogrammed to strike a
> floor tom MIDI note instead of a hi-hat MIDI note). We're
> micing the hat with an Earthworks TC-30 (tried a Rode NT-5 too,
> but the Earthworks won out by a large margin due to being less
> midrangey, having a ton more "air"; and also being an omni, and
> as a result, picking up more room ambience). OH's are TLM-
> 103's, and no, you can't hear the "thwack" on the pads at all
> once you get the audio from the e-kit going. The downside to
> all this is that the e-kit only has stereo outs, so we're
> tracking the MIDI output as well so we can go back & re-trigger
> individual tracks for kick, snare, etc for mixing purposes.
> So, the stereo outs that are being recorded for the time being
> could be considered "scratch" drums, I guess. lol
>
> Just thought I'd mention the drum thing too, because I recall a
> few months back someone had posted a question about had anyone
> done something like this & how did it work out, etc.
>
> Neil
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| Re: Reminder to Check all your cab's speakers when micing! [message #67791 is a reply to message #67783] |
Sat, 06 May 2006 13:23 |
neil[1]
Messages: 164
Registered: October 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Oh, forgot to mention another reason... if they use a drop-D
tuning, or a drop-C (tune the whole guitar down to D, except
the lowest string, which is tuned to C), then you have a power
chord fifth, just by laying one finger across the two lowest
strings... makes it easy to do those really fast power chord
riffs just on the two low strings.
Neil
"Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>I think it's just to get more of that even lower-end rumble
>& those groin-pounding frequencies than they could get if they
>didn't detune. You get the bass player using a 5-string & the
>guitars detuned to D or even C in some cases, and you just get
>this massive "THUD" when they do those chunky, muted things on
>the lower notes. And yeah, they use heavier strings for the
>most part... the lightest I've seen guys who play this style
>use are: 10 to 46 but some use hybrid sets with a 10-top/heavy
>bottom, and some just simply go a bit heavier all the way
>across; so it varies.
>
>Neil
>
>
>
>"Bill Lorentzen" <bill@lorentzen.ws> wrote:
>>One thing I've been wondering about: why are guys detuning like that? Is
>it
>>for gtr tone or for the singer? I know this is common for metal these days,
>
>>but i don't really get it. And do they up the string size or just let them
>
>>flop around? And did you really mean 1 step and 1/2?
>>
>>Hmm, Bill
>>
>>
>>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:445cd231$1@linux...
>>>
>>> I'm recording a demo for this band called Lhasa Vector, and we
>>> started setting up & getting tones last night... kinda
>>> interesting the way we're doing the drums, but I'll get into
>>> that in a minute. Anyway, so we're setting up the primary
>>> guitarist's rig, and we're trying a Marshall 4x12 cabinet, and
>>> also a Mesa 4x12 cabinet... I have no idea of the speaker
>>> models in each, but he says he likes certain characteristics of
>>> both, so can we try a/b-ing them? I say sure, no prob... he has
>>> a Mesa triple rectumfryer head that has two speaker outs, so he
>>> can play through both cabs at the same time & we'll use the
>>> same kind of signal chain on each one to record a couple test
>>> files so he can hear the difference between the two cabinets.
>>>
>>> So, we record him playing a bit, each cabinet mic'ed with an
>>> Audix i5 going through a channel on the Focusrite Red-8... the
>>> Mesa cab is definitely somewhat louder than the Marshall - not
>>> by tons, but it's apparent. It's also brighter & tighter.
>>> So, as we're playing back each track & I'm going back & forth
>>> between them: "Here's the Mesa... here's the Marshall... here's
>>> both... 'both' sounds pretty good.", I'm noticing that the
>>> Marshall speaker sounds really "soft" or "loose" - not just
>>> compared to the Mesa cab, but in it's own right. Now, he likes
>>> the way this is sounding, and he's saying he prefers it to the
>>> Mesa... like I said, it's a little softer in tone, a little
>>> less tight, and definitely "fuzzier" (though not "ready to be
>>> re-coned kinda fuzzy".
>>>
>>> Anyway, I say: "Let's, just for grins, try something, OK?, I
>>> want to see what another speaker in that Marshall cab sounds
>>> like... so I take the mic off the Mesa, put it on the speaker
>>> right next to the one we're micing in the Marshall cab, and
>>> have him play again... lo & behold, the other speaker sounds
>>> different... not necessarily better, but definitely somewhat
>>> different. I asked him if he'd had to replace any of the
>>> speakers, or had any of the speakers re-coned lately & he
>>> said: "no, never"... bought the cabinet new, has had it for a
>>> few years, and has never had to have it worked on.
>>>
>>> Bottom line, the other speaker is a little bit tighter-sounding
>>> & less "fuzzy" than the first one - there is absolutely no
>>> perceiveable difference in volume between them, and the
>>> waveforms are right at the same levels; and in fact, when I
>>> threw one mic out of phase for a second while he was playing,
>>> they nulled to the point where I couldn't hear it at all, but
>>> there's definitely a difference in tone.
>>>
>>> In any event, he likes the sound of the combination of the two
>>> speakers, so that's what we're going with, but my point is:
>>> CHECK ALL THE SPEAKERS! I know there's been times when I've
>>> done this, and also times when I've mic'ed up a cab, said:
>>> "He-EEYYY that sounds pretty good right there!" and gone with
>>> it... I wonder if I had checked all the speakers in any of
>>> those events, we might have ended up saying: "DAAAAAMN, that's
>>> even BETTER!"
>>>
>>> My only regret at this stage is that the other guitar player
>>> really liked that i5/Mucusrite Red combination he was hearing,
>>> but unfortunately, I only have two i5's, and two channels
>>> of "red". We didn't dial in his sounds last night because at
>>> first he said he wanted to do his parts as overdubs once the
>>> first guitar was laid down, but as we were wrapping up for the
>>> evening, he changed his mind & now wants to do them at the same
>>> time. I have other mics & pres, of course, but I dunno if we're
>>> gonna get something he's happy with now that he's heard that
>>> particular combination... the saving grace might be that
>>> although he's got the same kind of amp head as the first guy,
>>> he'll be using the Mesa cab, and he says his overall tone is
>>> different from the first guy's too... he's trying to fit into
>>> the freqency range between the bass & the first guitar. Since
>>> these guys de-tune a step & a half, that's gonna be a pretty
>>> low tonal range... I'm thinking maybe I wish I had another TLM-
>>> 103 at this point, too LOL if he's going that low I might
>>> need something like that for his tone, just so it's not a big,
>>> muddy, mess! I guess we'll find out today (fingers crossed).
>>>
>>> Anyway, I said I'd mention the drum thing 'cause it's kinda
>>> different... the drummer loves his Roland E-kit, which he
>>> incorporates with some live cymbals, as well. So we're using
>>> 3 live cymbals, plus live hi-hats, 3 e-kit cymbals, and the e-
>>> kit for kick, snare, and 4 toms (one tom pad plugged into the
>>> hi-hat trigger port, with the brain reprogrammed to strike a
>>> floor tom MIDI note instead of a hi-hat MIDI note). We're
>>> micing the hat with an Earthworks TC-30 (tried a Rode NT-5 too,
>>> but the Earthworks won out by a large margin due to being less
>>> midrangey, having a ton more "air"; and also being an omni, and
>>> as a result, picking up more room ambience). OH's are TLM-
>>> 103's, and no, you can't hear the "thwack" on the pads at all
>>> once you get the audio from the e-kit going. The downside to
>>> all this is that the e-kit only has stereo outs, so we're
>>> tracking the MIDI output as well so we can go back & re-trigger
>>> individual tracks for kick, snare, etc for mixing purposes.
>>> So, the stereo outs that are being recorded for the time being
>>> could be considered "scratch" drums, I guess. lol
>>>
>>> Just thought I'd mention the drum thing too, because I recall a
>>> few months back someone had posted a question about had anyone
>>> done something like this & how did it work out, etc.
>>>
>>> Neil
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Reminder to Check all your cab's speakers when micing! [message #67792 is a reply to message #67787] |
Sat, 06 May 2006 13:25 |
Nil
Messages: 245
Registered: March 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
That would've been a LOT of bleed! But possible, I s'pose.
Anyway, these guys are getting ready to head over shortly, so
I'd better go get set up for some more low-end riffage. lol
Neil
"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>I really thought you were going to say the Marshall cab wasn't working and
>the mic was picking up bleed from the boogie...now that would have been
>funny
>
>DOn
>
>
>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:445cd231$1@linux...
>>
>> I'm recording a demo for this band called Lhasa Vector, and we
>> started setting up & getting tones last night... kinda
>> interesting the way we're doing the drums, but I'll get into
>> that in a minute. Anyway, so we're setting up the primary
>> guitarist's rig, and we're trying a Marshall 4x12 cabinet, and
>> also a Mesa 4x12 cabinet... I have no idea of the speaker
>> models in each, but he says he likes certain characteristics of
>> both, so can we try a/b-ing them? I say sure, no prob... he has
>> a Mesa triple rectumfryer head that has two speaker outs, so he
>> can play through both cabs at the same time & we'll use the
>> same kind of signal chain on each one to record a couple test
>> files so he can hear the difference between the two cabinets.
>>
>> So, we record him playing a bit, each cabinet mic'ed with an
>> Audix i5 going through a channel on the Focusrite Red-8... the
>> Mesa cab is definitely somewhat louder than the Marshall - not
>> by tons, but it's apparent. It's also brighter & tighter.
>> So, as we're playing back each track & I'm going back & forth
>> between them: "Here's the Mesa... here's the Marshall... here's
>> both... 'both' sounds pretty good.", I'm noticing that the
>> Marshall speaker sounds really "soft" or "loose" - not just
>> compared to the Mesa cab, but in it's own right. Now, he likes
>> the way this is sounding, and he's saying he prefers it to the
>> Mesa... like I said, it's a little softer in tone, a little
>> less tight, and definitely "fuzzier" (though not "ready to be
>> re-coned kinda fuzzy".
>>
>> Anyway, I say: "Let's, just for grins, try something, OK?, I
>> want to see what another speaker in that Marshall cab sounds
>> like... so I take the mic off the Mesa, put it on the speaker
>> right next to the one we're micing in the Marshall cab, and
>> have him play again... lo & behold, the other speaker sounds
>> different... not necessarily better, but definitely somewhat
>> different. I asked him if he'd had to replace any of the
>> speakers, or had any of the speakers re-coned lately & he
>> said: "no, never"... bought the cabinet new, has had it for a
>> few years, and has never had to have it worked on.
>>
>> Bottom line, the other speaker is a little bit tighter-sounding
>> & less "fuzzy" than the first one - there is absolutely no
>> perceiveable difference in volume between them, and the
>> waveforms are right at the same levels; and in fact, when I
>> threw one mic out of phase for a second while he was playing,
>> they nulled to the point where I couldn't hear it at all, but
>> there's definitely a difference in tone.
>>
>> In any event, he likes the sound of the combination of the two
>> speakers, so that's what we're going with, but my point is:
>> CHECK ALL THE SPEAKERS! I know there's been times when I've
>> done this, and also times when I've mic'ed up a cab, said:
>> "He-EEYYY that sounds pretty good right there!" and gone with
>> it... I wonder if I had checked all the speakers in any of
>> those events, we might have ended up saying: "DAAAAAMN, that's
>> even BETTER!"
>>
>> My only regret at this stage is that the other guitar player
>> really liked that i5/Mucusrite Red combination he was hearing,
>> but unfortunately, I only have two i5's, and two channels
>> of "red". We didn't dial in his sounds last night because at
>> first he said he wanted to do his parts as overdubs once the
>> first guitar was laid down, but as we were wrapping up for the
>> evening, he changed his mind & now wants to do them at the same
>> time. I have other mics & pres, of course, but I dunno if we're
>> gonna get something he's happy with now that he's heard that
>> particular combination... the saving grace might be that
>> although he's got the same kind of amp head as the first guy,
>> he'll be using the Mesa cab, and he says his overall tone is
>> different from the first guy's too... he's trying to fit into
>> the freqency range between the bass & the first guitar. Since
>> these guys de-tune a step & a half, that's gonna be a pretty
>> low tonal range... I'm thinking maybe I wish I had another TLM-
>> 103 at this point, too LOL if he's going that low I might
>> need something like that for his tone, just so it's not a big,
>> muddy, mess! I guess we'll find out today (fingers crossed).
>>
>> Anyway, I said I'd mention the drum thing 'cause it's kinda
>> different... the drummer loves his Roland E-kit, which he
>> incorporates with some live cymbals, as well. So we're using
>> 3 live cymbals, plus live hi-hats, 3 e-kit cymbals, and the e-
>> kit for kick, snare, and 4 toms (one tom pad plugged into the
>> hi-hat trigger port, with the brain reprogrammed to strike a
>> floor tom MIDI note instead of a hi-hat MIDI note). We're
>> micing the hat with an Earthworks TC-30 (tried a Rode NT-5 too,
>> but the Earthworks won out by a large margin due to being less
>> midrangey, having a ton more "air"; and also being an omni, and
>> as a result, picking up more room ambience). OH's are TLM-
>> 103's, and no, you can't hear the "thwack" on the pads at all
>> once you get the audio from the e-kit going. The downside to
>> all this is that the e-kit only has stereo outs, so we're
>> tracking the MIDI output as well so we can go back & re-trigger
>> individual tracks for kick, snare, etc for mixing purposes.
>> So, the stereo outs that are being recorded for the time being
>> could be considered "scratch" drums, I guess. lol
>>
>> Just thought I'd mention the drum thing too, because I recall a
>> few months back someone had posted a question about had anyone
>> done something like this & how did it work out, etc.
>>
>> Neil
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Reminder to Check all your cab's speakers when micing! [message #67796 is a reply to message #67792] |
Sat, 06 May 2006 15:10 |
Don Nafe
Messages: 1206
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Tighten down all the screws, put the cabs up on milk crates turn the amps to
11 and get the lead vocalist to tweak the mic placement...it'll be three
days before his hearing comes back and in between then and now you might
actually get some useable vocal takes
heehehehehehe
Don
"Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:445d064c$1@linux...
>
> That would've been a LOT of bleed! But possible, I s'pose.
>
> Anyway, these guys are getting ready to head over shortly, so
> I'd better go get set up for some more low-end riffage. lol
>
> Neil
>
>
> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>>I really thought you were going to say the Marshall cab wasn't working and
>
>>the mic was picking up bleed from the boogie...now that would have been
>
>>funny
>>
>>DOn
>>
>>
>>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:445cd231$1@linux...
>>>
>>> I'm recording a demo for this band called Lhasa Vector, and we
>>> started setting up & getting tones last night... kinda
>>> interesting the way we're doing the drums, but I'll get into
>>> that in a minute. Anyway, so we're setting up the primary
>>> guitarist's rig, and we're trying a Marshall 4x12 cabinet, and
>>> also a Mesa 4x12 cabinet... I have no idea of the speaker
>>> models in each, but he says he likes certain characteristics of
>>> both, so can we try a/b-ing them? I say sure, no prob... he has
>>> a Mesa triple rectumfryer head that has two speaker outs, so he
>>> can play through both cabs at the same time & we'll use the
>>> same kind of signal chain on each one to record a couple test
>>> files so he can hear the difference between the two cabinets.
>>>
>>> So, we record him playing a bit, each cabinet mic'ed with an
>>> Audix i5 going through a channel on the Focusrite Red-8... the
>>> Mesa cab is definitely somewhat louder than the Marshall - not
>>> by tons, but it's apparent. It's also brighter & tighter.
>>> So, as we're playing back each track & I'm going back & forth
>>> between them: "Here's the Mesa... here's the Marshall... here's
>>> both... 'both' sounds pretty good.", I'm noticing that the
>>> Marshall speaker sounds really "soft" or "loose" - not just
>>> compared to the Mesa cab, but in it's own right. Now, he likes
>>> the way this is sounding, and he's saying he prefers it to the
>>> Mesa... like I said, it's a little softer in tone, a little
>>> less tight, and definitely "fuzzier" (though not "ready to be
>>> re-coned kinda fuzzy".
>>>
>>> Anyway, I say: "Let's, just for grins, try something, OK?, I
>>> want to see what another speaker in that Marshall cab sounds
>>> like... so I take the mic off the Mesa, put it on the speaker
>>> right next to the one we're micing in the Marshall cab, and
>>> have him play again... lo & behold, the other speaker sounds
>>> different... not necessarily better, but definitely somewhat
>>> different. I asked him if he'd had to replace any of the
>>> speakers, or had any of the speakers re-coned lately & he
>>> said: "no, never"... bought the cabinet new, has had it for a
>>> few years, and has never had to have it worked on.
>>>
>>> Bottom line, the other speaker is a little bit tighter-sounding
>>> & less "fuzzy" than the first one - there is absolutely no
>>> perceiveable difference in volume between them, and the
>>> waveforms are right at the same levels; and in fact, when I
>>> threw one mic out of phase for a second while he was playing,
>>> they nulled to the point where I couldn't hear it at all, but
>>> there's definitely a difference in tone.
>>>
>>> In any event, he likes the sound of the combination of the two
>>> speakers, so that's what we're going with, but my point is:
>>> CHECK ALL THE SPEAKERS! I know there's been times when I've
>>> done this, and also times when I've mic'ed up a cab, said:
>>> "He-EEYYY that sounds pretty good right there!" and gone with
>>> it... I wonder if I had checked all the speakers in any of
>>> those events, we might have ended up saying: "DAAAAAMN, that's
>>> even BETTER!"
>>>
>>> My only regret at this stage is that the other guitar player
>>> really liked that i5/Mucusrite Red combination he was hearing,
>>> but unfortunately, I only have two i5's, and two channels
>>> of "red". We didn't dial in his sounds last night because at
>>> first he said he wanted to do his parts as overdubs once the
>>> first guitar was laid down, but as we were wrapping up for the
>>> evening, he changed his mind & now wants to do them at the same
>>> time. I have other mics & pres, of course, but I dunno if we're
>>> gonna get something he's happy with now that he's heard that
>>> particular combination... the saving grace might be that
>>> although he's got the same kind of amp head as the first guy,
>>> he'll be using the Mesa cab, and he says his overall tone is
>>> different from the first guy's too... he's trying to fit into
>>> the freqency range between the bass & the first guitar. Since
>>> these guys de-tune a step & a half, that's gonna be a pretty
>>> low tonal range... I'm thinking maybe I wish I had another TLM-
>>> 103 at this point, too LOL if he's going that low I might
>>> need something like that for his tone, just so it's not a big,
>>> muddy, mess! I guess we'll find out today (fingers crossed).
>>>
>>> Anyway, I said I'd mention the drum thing 'cause it's kinda
>>> different... the drummer loves his Roland E-kit, which he
>>> incorporates with some live cymbals, as well. So we're using
>>> 3 live cymbals, plus live hi-hats, 3 e-kit cymbals, and the e-
>>> kit for kick, snare, and 4 toms (one tom pad plugged into the
>>> hi-hat trigger port, with the brain reprogrammed to strike a
>>> floor tom MIDI note instead of a hi-hat MIDI note). We're
>>> micing the hat with an Earthworks TC-30 (tried a Rode NT-5 too,
>>> but the Earthworks won out by a large margin due to being less
>>> midrangey, having a ton more "air"; and also being an omni, and
>>> as a result, picking up more room ambience). OH's are TLM-
>>> 103's, and no, you can't hear the "thwack" on the pads at all
>>> once you get the audio from the e-kit going. The downside to
>>> all this is that the e-kit only has stereo outs, so we're
>>> tracking the MIDI output as well so we can go back & re-trigger
>>> individual tracks for kick, snare, etc for mixing purposes.
>>> So, the stereo outs that are being recorded for the time being
>>> could be considered "scratch" drums, I guess. lol
>>>
>>> Just thought I'd mention the drum thing too, because I recall a
>>> few months back someone had posted a question about had anyone
>>> done something like this & how did it work out, etc.
>>>
>>> Neil
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Reminder to Check all your cab's speakers when micing! [message #67827 is a reply to message #67796] |
Sun, 07 May 2006 09:14 |
jef knight[1]
Messages: 201
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------010600010704040600020106
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
lol...I thought *I* invented that trick Don....
j
Don Nafe wrote:
>Tighten down all the screws, put the cabs up on milk crates turn the amps to
>11 and get the lead vocalist to tweak the mic placement...it'll be three
>days before his hearing comes back and in between then and now you might
>actually get some useable vocal takes
>
>heehehehehehe
>
>Don
>
>
>"Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:445d064c$1@linux...
>
>
>>That would've been a LOT of bleed! But possible, I s'pose.
>>
>>Anyway, these guys are getting ready to head over shortly, so
>>I'd better go get set up for some more low-end riffage. lol
>>
>>Neil
>>
>>
>>"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I really thought you were going to say the Marshall cab wasn't working and
>>>
>>>
>>>the mic was picking up bleed from the boogie...now that would have been
>>>
>>>
>>>funny
>>>
>>>DOn
>>>
>>>
>>>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:445cd231$1@linux...
>>>
>>>
>>>>I'm recording a demo for this band called Lhasa Vector, and we
>>>>started setting up & getting tones last night... kinda
>>>>interesting the way we're doing the drums, but I'll get into
>>>>that in a minute. Anyway, so we're setting up the primary
>>>>guitarist's rig, and we're trying a Marshall 4x12 cabinet, and
>>>>also a Mesa 4x12 cabinet... I have no idea of the speaker
>>>>models in each, but he says he likes certain characteristics of
>>>>both, so can we try a/b-ing them? I say sure, no prob... he has
>>>>a Mesa triple rectumfryer head that has two speaker outs, so he
>>>>can play through both cabs at the same time & we'll use the
>>>>same kind of signal chain on each one to record a couple test
>>>>files so he can hear the difference between the two cabinets.
>>>>
>>>>So, we record him playing a bit, each cabinet mic'ed with an
>>>>Audix i5 going through a channel on the Focusrite Red-8... the
>>>>Mesa cab is definitely somewhat louder than the Marshall - not
>>>>by tons, but it's apparent. It's also brighter & tighter.
>>>>So, as we're playing back each track & I'm going back & forth
>>>>between them: "Here's the Mesa... here's the Marshall... here's
>>>>both... 'both' sounds pretty good.", I'm noticing that the
>>>>Marshall speaker sounds really "soft" or "loose" - not just
>>>>compared to the Mesa cab, but in it's own right. Now, he likes
>>>>the way this is sounding, and he's saying he prefers it to the
>>>>Mesa... like I said, it's a little softer in tone, a little
>>>>less tight, and definitely "fuzzier" (though not "ready to be
>>>>re-coned kinda fuzzy".
>>>>
>>>>Anyway, I say: "Let's, just for grins, try something, OK?, I
>>>>want to see what another speaker in that Marshall cab sounds
>>>>like... so I take the mic off the Mesa, put it on the speaker
>>>>right next to the one we're micing in the Marshall cab, and
>>>>have him play again... lo & behold, the other speaker sounds
>>>>different... not necessarily better, but definitely somewhat
>>>>different. I asked him if he'd had to replace any of the
>>>>speakers, or had any of the speakers re-coned lately & he
>>>>said: "no, never"... bought the cabinet new, has had it for a
>>>>few years, and has never had to have it worked on.
>>>>
>>>>Bottom line, the other speaker is a little bit tighter-sounding
>>>>& less "fuzzy" than the first one - there is absolutely no
>>>>perceiveable difference in volume between them, and the
>>>>waveforms are right at the same levels; and in fact, when I
>>>>threw one mic out of phase for a second while he was playing,
>>>>they nulled to the point where I couldn't hear it at all, but
>>>>there's definitely a difference in tone.
>>>>
>>>>In any event, he likes the sound of the combination of the two
>>>>speakers, so that's what we're going with, but my point is:
>>>>CHECK ALL THE SPEAKERS! I know there's been times when I've
>>>>done this, and also times when I've mic'ed up a cab, said:
>>>>"He-EEYYY that sounds pretty good right there!" and gone with
>>>>it... I wonder if I had checked all the speakers in any of
>>>>those events, we might have ended up saying: "DAAAAAMN, that's
>>>>even BETTER!"
>>>>
>>>>My only regret at this stage is that the other guitar player
>>>>really liked that i5/Mucusrite Red combination he was hearing,
>>>>but unfortunately, I only have two i5's, and two channels
>>>>of "red". We didn't dial in his sounds last night because at
>>>>first he said he wanted to do his parts as overdubs once the
>>>>first guitar was laid down, but as we were wrapping up for the
>>>>evening, he changed his mind & now wants to do them at the same
>>>>time. I have other mics & pres, of course, but I dunno if we're
>>>>gonna get something he's happy with now that he's heard that
>>>>particular combination... the saving grace might be that
>>>>although he's got the same kind of amp head as the first guy,
>>>>he'll be using the Mesa cab, and he says his overall tone is
>>>>different from the first guy's too... he's trying to fit into
>>>>the freqency range between the bass & the first guitar. Since
>>>>these guys de-tune a step & a half, that's gonna be a pretty
>>>>low tonal range... I'm thinking maybe I wish I had another TLM-
>>>>103 at this point, too LOL if he's going that low I might
>>>>need something like that for his tone, just so it's not a big,
>>>>muddy, mess! I guess we'll find out today (fingers crossed).
>>>>
>>>>Anyway, I said I'd mention the drum thing 'cause it's kinda
>>>>different... the drummer loves his Roland E-kit, which he
>>>>incorporates with some live cymbals, as well. So we're using
>>>>3 live cymbals, plus live hi-hats, 3 e-kit cymbals, and the e-
>>>>kit for kick, snare, and 4 toms (one tom pad plugged into the
>>>>hi-hat trigger port, with the brain reprogrammed to strike a
>>>>floor tom MIDI note instead of a hi-hat MIDI note). We're
>>>>micing the hat with an Earthworks TC-30 (tried a Rode NT-5 too,
>>>>but the Earthworks won out by a large margin due to being less
>>>>midrangey, having a ton more "air"; and also being an omni, and
>>>>as a result, picking up more room ambience). OH's are TLM-
>>>>103's, and no, you can't hear the "thwack" on the pads at all
>>>>once you get the audio from the e-kit going. The downside to
>>>>all this is that the e-kit only has stereo outs, so we're
>>>>tracking the MIDI output as well so we can go back & re-trigger
>>>>individual tracks for kick, snare, etc for mixing purposes.
>>>>So, the stereo outs that are being recorded for the time being
>>>>could be considered "scratch" drums, I guess. lol
>>>>
>>>>Just thought I'd mention the drum thing too, because I recall a
>>>>few months back someone had posted a question about had anyone
>>>>done something like this & how did it work out, etc.
>>>>
>>>>Neil
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
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lol...I thought *I* invented that trick Don....<br>
j<br>
<br>
Don Nafe wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid445d1e12$1@linux" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Tighten down all the screws, put the cabs up on milk crates turn the amps to
11 and get the lead vocalist to tweak the mic placement...it'll be three
days before his hearing comes back and in between then and now you might
actually get some useable vocal takes
heehehehehehe
Don
"Neil" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IUOIU@OIU.com"><IUOIU@OIU.com></a> wrote in message <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:445d064c$1@linux">news:445d064c$1@linux</a>...
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">That would've been a LOT of bleed! But possible, I s'pose.
Anyway, these guys are getting ready to head over shortly, so
I'd better go get set up for some more low-end riffage. lol
Neil
"Don Nafe" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dnafe@magma.ca"><dnafe@magma.ca></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I really thought you were going to say the Marshall cab wasn't working and
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">the mic was picking up bleed from the boogie...now that would have been
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">funny
DOn
"Neil" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:OIUOIU@OIU.com"><OIUOIU@OIU.com></a> wrote in message <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:445cd231$1@linux">news:445cd231$1@linux</a>...
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I'm recording a demo for this band called Lhasa Vector, and we
started setting up & getting tones last night... kinda
interesting the way we're doing the drums, but I'll get into
that in a minute. Anyway, so we're setting up the primary
guitarist's rig, and we're trying a Marshall 4x12 cabinet, and
also a Mesa 4x12 cabinet... I have no idea of the speaker
models in each, but he says he likes certain characteristics of
both, so can we try a/b-ing them? I say sure, no prob... he has
a Mesa triple rectumfryer head that has two speaker outs, so he
can play through both cabs at the same time & we'll use the
same kind of signal chain on each one to record a couple test
files so he can hear the difference between the two cabinets.
So, we record him playing a bit, each cabinet mic'ed with an
Audix i5 going through a channel on the Focusrite Red-8... the
Mesa cab is definitely somewhat louder than the Marshall - not
by tons, but it's apparent. It's also brighter & tighter.
So, as we're playing back each track & I'm going back & forth
between them: "Here's the Mesa... here's the Marshall... here's
both... 'both' sounds pretty good.", I'm noticing that the
Marshall speaker sounds really "soft" or "loose" - not just
compared to the Mesa cab, but in it's own right. Now, he likes
the way this is sounding, and he's saying he prefers it to the
Mesa... like I said, it's a little softer in tone, a little
less tight, and definitely "fuzzier" (though not "ready to be
re-coned kinda fuzzy".
Anyway, I say: "Let's, just for grins, try something, OK?, I
want to see what another speaker in that Marshall cab sounds
like... so I take the mic off the Mesa, put it on the speaker
right next to the one we're micing in the Marshall cab, and
have him play again... lo & behold, the other speaker sounds
different... not necessarily better, but definitely somewhat
different. I asked him if he'd had to replace any of the
speakers, or had any of the speakers re-coned lately & he
said: "no, never"... bought the cabinet new, has had it for a
few years, and has never had to have it worked on.
Bottom line, the other speaker is a little bit tighter-sounding
& less "fuzzy" than the first one - there is absolutely no
perceiveable difference in volume between them, and the
waveforms are right at the same levels; and in fact, when I
threw one mic out of phase for a second while he was playing,
they nulled to the point where I couldn't hear it at all, but
there's definitely a difference in tone.
In any event, he likes the sound of the combination of the two
speakers, so that's what we're going with, but my point is:
CHECK ALL THE SPEAKERS! I know there's been times when I've
done this, and also times when I've mic'ed up a cab, said:
"He-EEYYY that sounds pretty good right there!" and gone with
it... I wonder if I had checked all the speakers in any of
those events, we might have ended up saying: "DAAAAAMN, that's
even BETTER!"
My only regret at this stage is that the other guitar player
really liked that i5/Mucusrite Red combination he was hearing,
but unfortunately, I only have two i5's, and two channels
of "red". We didn't dial in his sounds last night because at
first he said he wanted to do his parts as overdubs once the
first guitar was laid down, but as we were wrapping up for the
evening, he changed his mind & now wants to do them at the same
time. I have other mics & pres, of course, but I dunno if we're
gonna get something he's happy with now that he's heard that
particular combination... the saving grace might be that
although he's got the same kind of amp head as the first guy,
he'll be using the Mesa cab, and he says his overall tone is
different from the first guy's too... he's trying to fit into
the freqency range between the bass & the first guitar. Since
these guys de-tune a step & a half, that's gonna be a pretty
low tonal range... I'm thinking maybe I wish I had another TLM-
103 at this point, too LOL if he's going that low I might
need something like that for his tone, just so it's not a big,
muddy, mess! I guess we'll find out today (fingers crossed).
Anyway, I said I'd mention the drum thing 'cause it's kinda
different... the drummer loves his Roland E-kit, which he
incorporates with some live cymbals, as well. So we're using
3 live cymbals, plus live hi-hats, 3 e-kit cymbals, and the e-
kit for kick, snare, and 4 toms (one tom pad plugged into the
hi-hat trigger port, with the brain reprogrammed to strike a
floor tom MIDI note instead of a hi-hat MIDI note). We're
micing the hat with an Earthworks TC-30 (tried a Rode NT-5 too,
but the Earthworks won out by a large margin due to being less
midrangey, having a ton more "air"; and also being an omni, and
as a result, picking up more room ambience). OH's are TLM-
103's, and no, you can't hear the "thwack" on the pads at all
once you get the audio from the e-kit going. The downside to
all this is that the e-kit only has stereo outs, so we're
tracking the MIDI output as well so we can go back & re-trigger
individual tracks for kick, snare, etc for mixing purposes.
So, the stereo outs that are being recorded for the time being
could be considered "scratch" drums, I guess. lol
Just thought I'd mention the drum thing too, because I recall a
few months back someone had posted a question about had anyone
done something like this & how did it work out, etc.
Neil
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>
--------------010600010704040600020106--
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| Re: Reminder to Check all your cab's speakers when micing! [message #67833 is a reply to message #67827] |
Sun, 07 May 2006 11:35 |
Don Nafe
Messages: 1206
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C671E3.894122A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'll steal...oops...I mean borrow from anybody, I'm not proud
Don
"jef knight" <thestudio@allknightmusic.com> wrote in message =
news:445e1bee@linux...
lol...I thought *I* invented that trick Don....
j
Don Nafe wrote:=20
Tighten down all the screws, put the cabs up on milk crates turn the =
amps to=20
11 and get the lead vocalist to tweak the mic placement...it'll be three =
days before his hearing comes back and in between then and now you might =
actually get some useable vocal takes
heehehehehehe
Don
"Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:445d064c$1@linux...
That would've been a LOT of bleed! But possible, I s'pose.
Anyway, these guys are getting ready to head over shortly, so
I'd better go get set up for some more low-end riffage. lol
Neil
"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
I really thought you were going to say the Marshall cab wasn't =
working and
the mic was picking up bleed from the boogie...now that would have =
been
funny
DOn
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:445cd231$1@linux...
I'm recording a demo for this band called Lhasa Vector, and we
started setting up & getting tones last night... kinda
interesting the way we're doing the drums, but I'll get into
that in a minute. Anyway, so we're setting up the primary
guitarist's rig, and we're trying a Marshall 4x12 cabinet, and
also a Mesa 4x12 cabinet... I have no idea of the speaker
models in each, but he says he likes certain characteristics of
both, so can we try a/b-ing them? I say sure, no prob... he has
a Mesa triple rectumfryer head that has two speaker outs, so he
can play through both cabs at the same time & we'll use the
same kind of signal chain on each one to record a couple test
files so he can hear the difference between the two cabinets.
So, we record him playing a bit, each cabinet mic'ed with an
Audix i5 going through a channel on the Focusrite Red-8... the
Mesa cab is definitely somewhat louder than the Marshall - not
by tons, but it's apparent. It's also brighter & tighter.
So, as we're playing back each track & I'm going back & forth
between them: "Here's the Mesa... here's the Marshall... here's
both... 'both' sounds pretty good.", I'm noticing that the
Marshall speaker sounds really "soft" or "loose" - not just
compared to the Mesa cab, but in it's own right. Now, he likes
the way this is sounding, and he's saying he prefers it to the
Mesa... like I said, it's a little softer in tone, a little
less tight, and definitely "fuzzier" (though not "ready to be
re-coned kinda fuzzy".
Anyway, I say: "Let's, just for grins, try something, OK?, I
want to see what another speaker in that Marshall cab sounds
like... so I take the mic off the Mesa, put it on the speaker
right next to the one we're micing in the Marshall cab, and
have him play again... lo & behold, the other speaker sounds
different... not necessarily better, but definitely somewhat
different. I asked him if he'd had to replace any of the
speakers, or had any of the speakers re-coned lately & he
said: "no, never"... bought the cabinet new, has had it for a
few years, and has never had to have it worked on.
Bottom line, the other speaker is a little bit tighter-sounding
& less "fuzzy" than the first one - there is absolutely no
perceiveable difference in volume between them, and the
waveforms are right at the same levels; and in fact, when I
threw one mic out of phase for a second while he was playing,
they nulled to the point where I couldn't hear it at all, but
there's definitely a difference in tone.
In any event, he likes the sound of the combination of the two
speakers, so that's what we're going with, but my point is:
CHECK ALL THE SPEAKERS! I know there's been times when I've
done this, and also times when I've mic'ed up a cab, said:
"He-EEYYY that sounds pretty good right there!" and gone with
it... I wonder if I had checked all the speakers in any of
those events, we might have ended up saying: "DAAAAAMN, that's
even BETTER!"
My only regret at this stage is that the other guitar player
really liked that i5/Mucusrite Red combination he was hearing,
but unfortunately, I only have two i5's, and two channels
of "red". We didn't dial in his sounds last night because at
first he said he wanted to do his parts as overdubs once the
first guitar was laid down, but as we were wrapping up for the
evening, he changed his mind & now wants to do them at the same
time. I have other mics & pres, of course, but I dunno if we're
gonna get something he's happy with now that he's heard that
particular combination... the saving grace might be that
although he's got the same kind of amp head as the first guy,
he'll be using the Mesa cab, and he says his overall tone is
different from the first guy's too... he's trying to fit into
the freqency range between the bass & the first guitar. Since
these guys de-tune a step & a half, that's gonna be a pretty
low tonal range... I'm thinking maybe I wish I had another TLM-
103 at this point, too LOL if he's going that low I might
need something like that for his tone, just so it's not a big,
muddy, mess! I guess we'll find out today (fingers crossed).
Anyway, I said I'd mention the drum thing 'cause it's kinda
different... the drummer loves his Roland E-kit, which he
incorporates with some live cymbals, as well. So we're using
3 live cymbals, plus live hi-hats, 3 e-kit cymbals, and the e-
kit for kick, snare, and 4 toms (one tom pad plugged into the
hi-hat trigger port, with the brain reprogrammed to strike a
floor tom MIDI note instead of a hi-hat MIDI note). We're
micing the hat with an Earthworks TC-30 (tried a Rode NT-5 too,
but the Earthworks won out by a large margin due to being less
midrangey, having a ton more "air"; and also being an omni, and
as a result, picking up more room ambience). OH's are TLM-
103's, and no, you can't hear the "thwack" on the pads at all
once you get the audio from the e-kit going. The downside to
all this is that the e-kit only has stereo outs, so we're
tracking the MIDI output as well so we can go back & re-trigger
individual tracks for kick, snare, etc for mixing purposes.
So, the stereo outs that are being recorded for the time being
could be considered "scratch" drums, I guess. lol
Just thought I'd mention the drum thing too, because I recall a
few months back someone had posted a question about had anyone
done something like this & how did it work out, etc.
Neil
=20
------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C671E3.894122A0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type =
content=3Dtext/html;charset=3DISO-8859-1>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2873" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY text=3D#000000 bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'll steal...oops...I mean borrow from =
anybody, I'm=20
not proud</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Don</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"jef knight" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:thestudio@allknightmusic.com">thestudio@allknightmusic.com=
</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
href=3D"news:445e1bee@linux">news:445e1bee@linux</A>...</DIV>lol...I =
thought *I*=20
invented that trick Don....<BR>j<BR><BR>Don Nafe wrote:=20
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=3Dmid445d1e12$1@linux type=3D"cite"><PRE =
wrap=3D"">Tighten down all the screws, put the cabs up on milk crates =
turn the amps to=20
11 and get the lead vocalist to tweak the mic placement...it'll be three =
days before his hearing comes back and in between then and now you might =
actually get some useable vocal takes
heehehehehehe
Don
"Neil" <A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-rfc2396E =
href=3D"mailto:IUOIU@OIU.com"><IUOIU@OIU.com></A> wrote in message =
<A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-freetext =
href=3D"news:445d064c$1@linux">news:445d064c$1@linux</A>...
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><PRE wrap=3D"">That would've been a LOT of =
bleed! But possible, I s'pose.
Anyway, these guys are getting ready to head over shortly, so
I'd better go get set up for some more low-end riffage. lol
Neil
"Don Nafe" <A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-rfc2396E =
href=3D"mailto:dnafe@magma.ca"><dnafe@magma.ca></A> wrote:
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><PRE wrap=3D"">I really thought you were =
going to say the Marshall cab wasn't working and
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><PRE wrap=3D"">the mic was picking up =
bleed from the boogie...now that would have been
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><PRE wrap=3D"">funny
DOn
"Neil" <A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-rfc2396E =
href=3D"mailto:OIUOIU@OIU.com"><OIUOIU@OIU.com></A> wrote in =
message <A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-freetext =
href=3D"news:445cd231$1@linux">news:445cd231$1@linux</A>...
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><PRE wrap=3D"">I'm recording a demo =
for this band called Lhasa Vector, and we
started setting up & getting tones last night... kinda
interesting the way we're doing the drums, but I'll get into
that in a minute. Anyway, so we're setting up the primary
guitarist's rig, and we're trying a Marshall 4x12 cabinet, and
also a Mesa 4x12 cabinet... I have no idea of the speaker
models in each, but he says he likes certain characteristics of
both, so can we try a/b-ing them? I say sure, no prob... he has
a Mesa triple rectumfryer head that has two speaker outs, so he
can play through both cabs at the same time & we'll use the
same kind of signal chain on each one to record a couple test
files so he can hear the difference between the two cabinets.
So, we record him playing a bit, each cabinet mic'ed with an
Audix i5 going through a channel on the Focusrite Red-8... the
Mesa cab is definitely somewhat louder than the Marshall - not
by tons, but it's apparent. It's also brighter & tighter.
So, as we're playing back each track & I'm going back & forth
between them: "Here's the Mesa... here's the Marshall... here's
both... 'both' sounds pretty good.", I'm noticing that the
Marshall speaker sounds really "soft" or "loose" - not just
compared to the Mesa cab, but in it's own right. Now, he likes
the way this is sounding, and he's saying he prefers it to the
Mesa... like I said, it's a little softer in tone, a little
less tight, and definitely "fuzzier" (though not "ready to be
re-coned kinda fuzzy".
Anyway, I say: "Let's, just for grins, try something, OK?, I
want to see what another speaker in that Marshall cab sounds
like... so I take the mic off the Mesa, put it on the speaker
right next to the one we're micing in the Marshall cab, and
have him play again... lo & behold, the other speaker sounds
different... not necessarily better, but definitely somewhat
different. I asked him if he'd had to replace any of the
speakers, or had any of the speakers re-coned lately & he
said: "no, never"... bought the cabinet new, has had it for a
few years, and has never had to have it worked on.
Bottom line, the other speaker is a little bit tighter-sounding
& less "fuzzy" than the first one - there is absolutely no
perceiveable difference in volume between them, and the
waveforms are right at the same levels; and in fact, when I
threw one mic out of phase for a second while he was playing,
they nulled to the point where I couldn't hear it at all, but
there's definitely a difference in tone.
In any event, he likes the sound of the combination of the two
speakers, so that's what we're going with, but my point is:
CHECK ALL THE SPEAKERS! I know there's been times when I've
done this, and also times when I've mic'ed up a cab, said:
"He-EEYYY that sounds pretty good right there!" and gone with
it... I wonder if I had checked all the speakers in any of
those events, we might have ended up saying: "DAAAAAMN, that's
even BETTER!"
My only regret at this stage is that the other guitar player
really liked that i5/Mucusrite Red combination he was hearing,
but unfortunately, I only have two i5's, and two channels
of "red". We didn't dial in his sounds last night because at
first he said he wanted to do his parts as overdubs once the
first guitar was laid down, but as we were wrapping up for the
evening, he changed his mind & now wants to do them at the same
time. I have other mics & pres, of course, but I dunno if we're
gonna get something he's happy with now that he's heard that
particular combination... the saving grace might be that
although he's got the same kind of amp head as the first guy,
he'll be using the Mesa cab, and he says his overall tone is
different from the first guy's too... he's trying to fit into
the freqency range between the bass & the first guitar. Since
these guys de-tune a step & a half, that's gonna be a pretty
low tonal range... I'm thinking maybe I wish I had another TLM-
103 at this point, too LOL if he's going that low I might
need something like that for his tone, just so it's not a big,
muddy, mess! I guess we'll find out today (fingers crossed).
Anyway, I said I'd mention the drum thing 'cause it's kinda
different... the drummer loves his Roland E-kit, which he
incorporates with some live cymbals, as well. So we're using
3 live cymbals, plus live hi-hats, 3 e-kit cymbals, and the e-
kit for kick, snare, and 4 toms (one tom pad plugged into the
hi-hat trigger port, with the brain reprogrammed to strike a
floor tom MIDI note instead of a hi-hat MIDI note). We're
micing the hat with an Earthworks TC-30 (tried a Rode NT-5 too,
but the Earthworks won out by a large margin due to being less
midrangey, having a ton more "air"; and also being an omni, and
as a result, picking up more room ambience). OH's are TLM-
103's, and no, you can't hear the "thwack" on the pads at all
once you get the audio from the e-kit going. The downside to
all this is that the e-kit only has stereo outs, so we're
tracking the MIDI output as well so we can go back & re-trigger
individual tracks for kick, snare, etc for mixing purposes.
So, the stereo outs that are being recorded for the time being
could be considered "scratch" drums, I guess. lol
Just thought I'd mention the drum thing too, because I recall a
few months back someone had posted a question about had anyone
done something like this & how did it work out, etc.
Neil
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=3D""> =
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=3D""><!---->
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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