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Hello from a New Paris User [message #109337]

Thu, 18 May 2017 00:20

SummingStrange

Messages: 43
Registered: April 2017
Location: Downunder

Member

I just wanted to say Hello.

I've joined the club, by purchasing a used Paris Bundle 3. Razz

Razz

Always wanted a Paris system, and found one locally so I grabbed it. I'm only a hobbyist, but when I was looking for something to record with I found that the Paris system still offered a lot by today's standards.

(I will be purchasing Mike's Win 7 drivers once I get the PC)

Cheers
Raph

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Re: Hello from a New Paris User [message #109338 is a reply to message #109337]

Thu, 18 May 2017 10:31

kerryg

Messages: 1529
Registered: February 2009

Senior Member
Administrator

Welcome aboard! We're small but mighty ;D. PARIS is a great DAW for recording straight-up analog; frankly very little has ever matched it for "replacement for two inch tape and a good analog board".

There are some important steps in configuration we'll walk you through when you get your computer, let us know when you're at bootup!

"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon

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Re: Hello from a New Paris User [message #109339 is a reply to message #109338]

Thu, 18 May 2017 22:12

SummingStrange

Messages: 43
Registered: April 2017
Location: Downunder

Member

Thanks!

The PC will be a completely fresh Win 7 install with a new HD for Paris and it mostly won't be connected to the internet after I set it up.
It's going to be dedicated to Paris and a SCSI card that I need for some other gear. I may also have an SSD for the Win 7 boot disk, as I have a 60Gb lying around here doing nothing.

Somebody on here recommended the HP Z400 workstation but I found the HP model (XW4600) that preceeded the Z400 has 3 PCI slots instead of the two on the Z400, giving me the potential to maybe run another EDS card at some point (need 1 slot for my SCSI card).
These workstations can operate as towers or on their sides which will allow the EDS card to be upright. They are spacious and come standard with 3 fans.

The XW4600 (Core2 Quad) is not as powerful as the Z400 (Xeon Quad or Hex) but there's not that much in it, and Paris was running on much less powerful PCs in the past, so it should be sweet.

I really appreciate the offer of help. It will be a couple of weeks at least before I can get it running due to a small renovation at my house taking longer than expected.
I'm not setting anything up gearwise until there's no more dust!

[Updated on: Thu, 18 May 2017 22:12]

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Re: Hello from a New Paris User [message #109341 is a reply to message #109337]

Thu, 25 May 2017 22:46

SummingStrange

Messages: 43
Registered: April 2017
Location: Downunder

Member

Ok, I'm re-thinking the HP XW4600.

I ran one of those power supply calculators to see how close it would be on the 5v rails, and it looks pretty marginal, and well over if I had two EDS cards (definitely want to add another card). I have picked up in the threads here that the EDS cards don't like to be short on power. I know that often when you push a power supply hard it may still maintain the volts/amps at the right level, but start to get a lot of ripple which can upset digital components. So the problems could be intermittent and appear to be unrelated to power issues.

I figured no problem, upgrade the power supply. Not easy with HP using proprietary PSUs, and although people have got other PSUs working with mods I'm not confident. It might just be easier to pick up one of the Asus or Gigabyte boards that others have reported as working. Then I can add whatever PSU I want.

The other issue is that PSUs are moving more towards having big powerful 12v rails and regular levels on the 5v rail due to all the crazy gaming graphics cards that people are running these days.

Maybe I'm overthinking this! I think the HP XW4600 would run ok with a single EDS card, so maybe I should use that for a while - they are cheap as chips and the 475watt PSU in the XW4600 would have to be able to supply a full 25watt on a single PCI slot surely. It would also give me a Win 7 COA for a lot less than buying the software separately. I haven't even got a second EDS card yet anyway.

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Re: Hello from a New Paris User [message #109342 is a reply to message #109341]

Fri, 26 May 2017 15:53

story

Messages: 14
Registered: March 2016

Junior Member

Hi Raph, very interesting. I have also thought about the XW 4600, as I know colleagues of mine used this PC successfully for the Fairlight CC-1 Audio card. But of course that is a PCIe, so PCI might be another story and the EDS cards need more power than the Fairlight card.

I'm also thinking of getting an Exsys EX-1035 expansion board like Wayne did, and put it in a Mini Tower like the "CoolerMaster Silencio 352" with a beefy silent PSU. I have a RME 9652 and two EDS cards so the four slots would be just perfect.

I haven't made a decision yet and would be very interested in your further findings. Should the XW-4600 be sufficient, I might take that road as well. I definitely need 3x 5V PCI slots, so the only modern solution is the one Mike and Daniel took with the Asus Z97c Mobo, but then I'd have to build a new PC and I'm not really good at that, lol. Keep us updated, if you will!

[Updated on: Fri, 26 May 2017 15:53]

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Re: Hello from a New Paris User [message #109343 is a reply to message #109341]

Fri, 26 May 2017 16:16

story

Messages: 14
Registered: March 2016

Junior Member

So the XW 4600 PSU shows 110W combined power on the 3,3 and 5V rail (printed on the PSU itself, I saw it on a picture online). Are you saying this isn't sufficient for 2 EDS cards? I mean those would be 50W together, no? Getting confused.

[Updated on: Fri, 26 May 2017 17:28]

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Re: Hello from a New Paris User [message #109344 is a reply to message #109343]

Fri, 26 May 2017 19:23

SummingStrange

Messages: 43
Registered: April 2017
Location: Downunder

Member

story wrote on Sat, 27 May 2017 09:16

So the XW 4600 PSU shows 110W combined power on the 3,3 and 5V rail (printed on the PSU itself, I saw it on a picture online). Are you saying this isn't sufficient for 2 EDS cards? I mean those would be 50W together, no? Getting confused.

Yes, you're spot on - 110W on that rail. The problem is that the 3.3/5V rail supplies the Motherboard and RAM as well as the PCI slots. The XW4600 uses DDR2 Ram, and removing 4GB (2x 2Gb sticks out of the 4 in the PC I'm looking at) from the calculations seemed to give back about 15W!

Maybe the calculator wasn't that accurate, and to be fair the only option for adding the EDS cards into the calculation was using the option "High end sound card" but these seemed to add only about 8 to 10 watts each. It appeared that the XW4600 in the spec I'm looking at didn't have much power left to run stuff on the 5V PCI slots, this could be some evidence that the calculator was wrong - surely you can't buld a PC with 3 PCI slots and have it not be able to use them if you have max Ram and a couple of 5V drives, can you?

Expansion chassis would be ideal, and gives you a lot of future-proofing as you can use it on any PC with a PCIe slot and upgrade your PSU any time. Pretty costly though.

[Updated on: Fri, 26 May 2017 19:24]

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Re: Hello from a New Paris User [message #109345 is a reply to message #109342]

Fri, 26 May 2017 19:32

SummingStrange

Messages: 43
Registered: April 2017
Location: Downunder

Member

story wrote on Sat, 27 May 2017 08:53

I haven't made a decision yet and would be very interested in your further findings. Should the XW-4600 be sufficient, I might take that road as well. I definitely need 3x 5V PCI slots, so the only modern solution is the one Mike and Daniel took with the Asus Z97c Mobo, but then I'd have to build a new PC and I'm not really good at that, lol. Keep us updated, if you will!

I'm pretty convinced that the XW4600 will run a single card, and that's all I will be able to test until I get my second card. I was talking to a guy on ebay who's selling a bunch of Paris stuff but after I asked a question about the EDS card he'd listed he never responded again, and when the card was relisted the auction became USA only - no more international. It could be a while before I get a second EDS card. Smile

Smile

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Re: Hello from a New Paris User [message #109382 is a reply to message #109337]

Wed, 23 August 2017 20:41

SummingStrange

Messages: 43
Registered: April 2017
Location: Downunder

Member

Update: I am building a whole new PC based around the Jetway NAF93-Q77 mainboard. It will have an SSD boot drive and a WD Caviar Black for Paris audio.

Almost all the parts are here now. I will go ahead and get Windows running on it to make sure everything is working before even thinking about adding any EDS cards or Paris software.

Or are there some specific things I need to do when running the first ever install of Win 7?

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Re: Hello from a New Paris User [message #109384 is a reply to message #109337]

Thu, 24 August 2017 15:56

story

Messages: 14
Registered: March 2016

Junior Member

Hi Raph, I'm still following your project and posts. The Jetway looks sexy, I think they are especially build for using many legacy PCI cards. Looking forward to your results. I don't believe you have to configure Win 7 any special way except for whatever Mike has outlined along his driver installation.

BTW I'm just eyeing a used PCI Expansion box on ebay, and contemplate whether I should try it. My Paris rig is still just one card and I want to make it two badly.

[Updated on: Thu, 24 August 2017 15:57]

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Re: Hello from a New Paris User [message #109385 is a reply to message #109384]

Fri, 25 August 2017 08:25

SummingStrange

Messages: 43
Registered: April 2017
Location: Downunder

Member

Hi mate!

Unfortunately I stuffed up my case fans order, so I have to change one of them for a different type. It's harder than you might think to build your own PC... the case fan situation has really been difficult to work out, and I expect that I have probably gone past the max required cooling point and into the waste of money zone.

Hope the Jetway works out well - 2 weeks of back and forth by email with Intel and they said it will work. The Pro-Tools guys are using these boards with success, so I figured Paris would be an even safer bet.

Yep, I'd like an expansion chassis for true future proofing, especially if it's PCIe to PCI rather than just PCI to PCI.

There are cards coming up here and there - don't know what happened to the guy who was advertising on here: "everything must go" I said I'd buy a few things off him and then never heard anything again. I found a card on Reverb, so I just need the ribbon cables now. Anyway first things first.

It's getting very close now, and thanks for the tip about setting up Windows.

Cheers

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Re: Hello from a New Paris User [message #109409 is a reply to message #109385]

Sun, 26 November 2017 05:52

mikeaudet

Messages: 476
Registered: February 2009
Location: Canada

Senior Member

I got a few ribbon cables from The at thesoniq.com a few years ago. He may still have them.

All the best!

Mike

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Re: Hello from a New Paris User [message #109434 is a reply to message #109337]

Wed, 17 January 2018 22:19

Will The Weirdo

Messages: 190
Registered: December 2009
Location: On The Lake

Senior Member

You can cheaply get the 10 and 16 pin ribbon cables on Ebay too.

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Re: Hello from a New Paris User [message #109455 is a reply to message #109434]

Mon, 22 January 2018 21:37

SummingStrange

Messages: 43
Registered: April 2017
Location: Downunder

Member

Will The Weirdo wrote on Thu, 18 January 2018 17:19

You can cheaply get the 10 and 16 pin ribbon cables on Ebay too.

Hi, thanks - I saw those on ebay - you reckon they are ok to use?

Assuming that the Ensoniq factory cables are straight pin to pin cables they should be good. I guess I should just get a set and give them a try.
They have various lengths available, but it would be best to go with the shortest (4 inch) cables, as the cards will be next to each other anyway.

[Updated on: Mon, 22 January 2018 21:38]

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Re: Hello from a New Paris User [message #109459 is a reply to message #109455]

Mon, 22 January 2018 23:44

Kim W.

Messages: 189
Registered: January 2010
Location: Australia

Senior Member

Those ribbon cables are nothing special. I have made my own in the past using separate crimp type connectors, cable and a small vice. If you do this, make sure you look closely at the cable entries, and if possible use a continuity tester or multimeter,and make sure there are no shorts. (Use a pair of needles or pins as probes.
Kim

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