Home » The Bin » Lester The Nightfly » OT The platform wars are over...
| OT The platform wars are over... [message #99705] |
Sun, 27 July 2008 23:18  |
![dc[3] is currently offline](/theme/PARIS_Forum_Template/images/offline.png "dc[3] is currently offline")
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
In the early 1990's at the univ. I worked at, the IT guys tried to
ban macs. If they found one in your dept. they would ridicule you
and tried to enforce a "no mac" campus standard. They would talk about
market share and comparisons to VHS vs. Betamax were tossed about
freely.
In the mid 1990's, my wife's dept head actually banned macs from the dept.
Both the IT director and my wife's dept. head got canned, thankfully,
but more importantly, let me be the first to declare the platform wars
over.
Apple is now #3
http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Claws+Its+Way+Closer+to+the+T op+in+Retail+PC+Sales/article12409.htm
Who'da thunk?
So, let me say to all the geek doomsayers and PC nazis
Bite Me. You were wrong all along. Get a life.
Apple has developed into the BMW of comp. companies. My new
8-core could not be more elegantly designed and built. Putting in
more RAM was like working on a beautiful sports car and Leopard makes
both Vista and XP look like bathroom grafitti in comparison.
Cheap? No, but worth it, and there really is no competition if you care
about the things it offers.
Oh, and a guy from Apple spent hours with me sorting out my ethernet
troubles.
Nothing against PC's, but the platform wars are over. You pays yer
nickel and takes yer choice.
DC
oh and with VM Fusion, I can put XP over here and Leopard over there
on the same machine and the same monitor. Or on mon. 2 of an extended
desktop.
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT The platform wars are over... [message #99709 is a reply to message #99705] |
Mon, 28 July 2008 08:30  |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Ah, the plight of the brutally oppressed Mac user. I was working at a university
in the mid-90's when we gently suggested that, since there were very serious
questions as to whether Apple could continue as a going concern, it might
be a good idea for Mac-centric departments at least diversify their platform
choices. Just hedge a bit, with either *nix or Windows machines. For giving
this excellent advice (still a good idea today) we were treated as platform
nazis out to 'get their Macs.' Keep in mind at that point I was still writing
a column for xlr8yourmac, not exactly a platform hater.
IT departments are charged with a different mission that home users. To this
day where I work I don't tell people what computers, operating systems, and
applications they can or can't use. It's not my job, or my place to tell
them that, what I CAN tell them is what I can promise them I will support.
I tell them that if they're running a laptop I set up with an operating system
I know if it breaks I'll fix it. If they want to use Mail on a OS X or check
IRC using emacs on a minix machine, more power to them, but I can't say for
sure that I can fix things if they break.
But anyway, you're right, we're all out to 'ban' your Macs.
TCB
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>In the early 1990's at the univ. I worked at, the IT guys tried to
>ban macs. If they found one in your dept. they would ridicule you
>and tried to enforce a "no mac" campus standard. They would talk about
>market share and comparisons to VHS vs. Betamax were tossed about
>freely.
>
>In the mid 1990's, my wife's dept head actually banned macs from the dept.
>
>Both the IT director and my wife's dept. head got canned, thankfully,
>but more importantly, let me be the first to declare the platform wars
>over.
>
>Apple is now #3
>
> http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Claws+Its+Way+Closer+to+the+T op+in+Retail+PC+Sales/article12409.htm
>
>Who'da thunk?
>
>So, let me say to all the geek doomsayers and PC nazis
>
>Bite Me. You were wrong all along. Get a life.
>
>Apple has developed into the BMW of comp. companies. My new
>8-core could not be more elegantly designed and built. Putting in
>more RAM was like working on a beautiful sports car and Leopard makes
>both Vista and XP look like bathroom grafitti in comparison.
>
>Cheap? No, but worth it, and there really is no competition if you care
>about the things it offers.
>
>Oh, and a guy from Apple spent hours with me sorting out my ethernet
>troubles.
>
>Nothing against PC's, but the platform wars are over. You pays yer
>nickel and takes yer choice.
>
>DC
>
>oh and with VM Fusion, I can put XP over here and Leopard over there
>on the same machine and the same monitor. Or on mon. 2 of an extended
>desktop.
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT The platform wars are over... [message #99710 is a reply to message #99709] |
Mon, 28 July 2008 08:46 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>Ah, the plight of the brutally oppressed Mac user.
Well, in the case of the PC nazi dept. head, my wife got a termination
letter hand delivered to her on New Years Eve. Rather than punching
him in the nose, we filed a grievance. Both the dept. head
and the provost who backed him were gone in 6 months when all the
facts came out. It wasn't about platforms, it was about a very bad
dept. head and the platform issue was a symptom, not a cause.
I was working at a university
>in the mid-90's when we gently suggested that, since there were very serious
>questions as to whether Apple could continue as a going concern, it might
>be a good idea for Mac-centric departments at least diversify their platform
>choices.
Reasonable advice. Zero chance of enforcing it on faculty as you
discovered.
>IT departments are charged with a different mission that home users. To
this
>day where I work I don't tell people what computers, operating systems,
and
>applications they can or can't use. It's not my job, or my place to tell
>them that, what I CAN tell them is what I can promise them I will support.
>I tell them that if they're running a laptop I set up with an operating
system
>I know if it breaks I'll fix it. If they want to use Mail on a OS X or check
>IRC using emacs on a minix machine, more power to them, but I can't say
for
>sure that I can fix things if they break.
Fair enough. They have budgets and can pay for their own support.
You do realize the implications, right?
>But anyway, you're right, we're all out to 'ban' your Macs.
Hmmm.
DC
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT The platform wars are over... [message #99712 is a reply to message #99709] |
Mon, 28 July 2008 09:19 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>Ah, the plight of the brutally oppressed Mac user. I was working at a university
>in the mid-90's when we gently suggested that, since there were very serious
>questions as to whether Apple could continue as a going concern, it might
>be a good idea for Mac-centric departments at least diversify their platform
>choices. Just hedge a bit, with either *nix or Windows machines. For giving
>this excellent advice (still a good idea today) we were treated as platform
>nazis out to 'get their Macs.' Keep in mind at that point I was still writing
>a column for xlr8yourmac, not exactly a platform hater.
>
You didn't know what you were talking about then, and when it comes to Macs
you still don't.
>IT departments are charged with a different mission that home users. To
this
>day where I work I don't tell people what computers, operating systems,
and
>applications they can or can't use. It's not my job, or my place to tell
>them that, what I CAN tell them is what I can promise them I will support.
>I tell them that if they're running a laptop I set up with an operating
system
>I know if it breaks I'll fix it. If they want to use Mail on a OS X or check
>IRC using emacs on a minix machine, more power to them, but I can't say
for
>sure that I can fix things if they break.
The problem is you don't know how to fix a Mac and you don't want to know.
IT guys just want to stay in their F'ed up MS world, after all, that's where
the IT work is at. Feature wise, Macs are getting even better than they
were in the past, unfortunately, what's under the hood is getting easier
to break/hack. However, there is still no comparison between a Mac and a
PC when it comes to hassle factor and problems. That's why Mac guys are
willing to pay more for a Mac, why Pay some IT guy to fix what shouldn't
be broke, it always costs more. Don't worry, if Mac stay on the path to
become more like PCs, you may be needed after all.
The problem is you don't know how to fix a Mac and you don't want to know.
IT guys just want to stay in their F'ed up MS world, after all, that's where
the IT work is at. Feature wise, Macs are getting even better than they
were in the past, unfortunately, what's under the hood is getting easier
to break/hack. However, there is still no comparison between a Mac and a
PC when it comes to hassle factor and problems. That's why Mac guys are
willing to pay more for a Mac, why Pay some IT guy to fix what shouldn't
be broke. Paying the IT guy always costs more.
Don't worry, if Mac stay on the path to become more like PCs, you may be
needed after all.
>
>But anyway, you're right, we're all out to 'ban' your Macs.
Ignorance is blissful! I guess it's easier to ban what your afraid of than
to face the truth.
>
>TCB
>
>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>
>>In the early 1990's at the univ. I worked at, the IT guys tried to
>>ban macs. If they found one in your dept. they would ridicule you
>>and tried to enforce a "no mac" campus standard. They would talk about
>>market share and comparisons to VHS vs. Betamax were tossed about
>>freely.
>>
>>In the mid 1990's, my wife's dept head actually banned macs from the dept.
>>
>>Both the IT director and my wife's dept. head got canned, thankfully,
>>but more importantly, let me be the first to declare the platform wars
>>over.
>>
>>Apple is now #3
>>
>> http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Claws+Its+Way+Closer+to+the+T op+in+Retail+PC+Sales/article12409.htm
>>
>>Who'da thunk?
>>
>>So, let me say to all the geek doomsayers and PC nazis
>>
>>Bite Me. You were wrong all along. Get a life.
>>
>>Apple has developed into the BMW of comp. companies. My new
>>8-core could not be more elegantly designed and built. Putting in
>>more RAM was like working on a beautiful sports car and Leopard makes
>>both Vista and XP look like bathroom grafitti in comparison.
>>
>>Cheap? No, but worth it, and there really is no competition if you care
>>about the things it offers.
>>
>>Oh, and a guy from Apple spent hours with me sorting out my ethernet
>>troubles.
>>
>>Nothing against PC's, but the platform wars are over. You pays yer
>>nickel and takes yer choice.
>>
>>DC
>>
>>oh and with VM Fusion, I can put XP over here and Leopard over there
>>on the same machine and the same monitor. Or on mon. 2 of an extended
>>desktop.
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT The platform wars are over... [message #99713 is a reply to message #99712] |
Mon, 28 July 2008 09:23 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
That was odd, must be a Mac glitch! Lol!
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>Ah, the plight of the brutally oppressed Mac user. I was working at a university
>>in the mid-90's when we gently suggested that, since there were very serious
>>questions as to whether Apple could continue as a going concern, it might
>>be a good idea for Mac-centric departments at least diversify their platform
>>choices. Just hedge a bit, with either *nix or Windows machines. For giving
>>this excellent advice (still a good idea today) we were treated as platform
>>nazis out to 'get their Macs.' Keep in mind at that point I was still writing
>>a column for xlr8yourmac, not exactly a platform hater.
>>
>
>You didn't know what you were talking about then, and when it comes to Macs
>you still don't.
>
>>IT departments are charged with a different mission that home users. To
>this
>>day where I work I don't tell people what computers, operating systems,
>and
>>applications they can or can't use. It's not my job, or my place to tell
>>them that, what I CAN tell them is what I can promise them I will support.
>>I tell them that if they're running a laptop I set up with an operating
>system
>>I know if it breaks I'll fix it. If they want to use Mail on a OS X or
check
>>IRC using emacs on a minix machine, more power to them, but I can't say
>for
>>sure that I can fix things if they break.
>
>The problem is you don't know how to fix a Mac and you don't want to know.
> IT guys just want to stay in their F'ed up MS world, after all, that's
where
>the IT work is at. Feature wise, Macs are getting even better than they
>were in the past, unfortunately, what's under the hood is getting easier
>to break/hack. However, there is still no comparison between a Mac and
a
>PC when it comes to hassle factor and problems. That's why Mac guys are
>willing to pay more for a Mac, why Pay some IT guy to fix what shouldn't
>be broke, it always costs more. Don't worry, if Mac stay on the path to
>become more like PCs, you may be needed after all.
>The problem is you don't know how to fix a Mac and you don't want to know.
> IT guys just want to stay in their F'ed up MS world, after all, that's
where
>the IT work is at. Feature wise, Macs are getting even better than they
>were in the past, unfortunately, what's under the hood is getting easier
>to break/hack. However, there is still no comparison between a Mac and
a
>PC when it comes to hassle factor and problems. That's why Mac guys are
>willing to pay more for a Mac, why Pay some IT guy to fix what shouldn't
>be broke. Paying the IT guy always costs more.
>
>Don't worry, if Mac stay on the path to become more like PCs, you may be
>needed after all.
>
>>
>>But anyway, you're right, we're all out to 'ban' your Macs.
>
>Ignorance is blissful! I guess it's easier to ban what your afraid of than
>to face the truth.
>>
>>TCB
>>
>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>In the early 1990's at the univ. I worked at, the IT guys tried to
>>>ban macs. If they found one in your dept. they would ridicule you
>>>and tried to enforce a "no mac" campus standard. They would talk about
>>>market share and comparisons to VHS vs. Betamax were tossed about
>>>freely.
>>>
>>>In the mid 1990's, my wife's dept head actually banned macs from the dept.
>>>
>>>Both the IT director and my wife's dept. head got canned, thankfully,
>>>but more importantly, let me be the first to declare the platform wars
>>>over.
>>>
>>>Apple is now #3
>>>
>>> http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Claws+Its+Way+Closer+to+the+T op+in+Retail+PC+Sales/article12409.htm
>>>
>>>Who'da thunk?
>>>
>>>So, let me say to all the geek doomsayers and PC nazis
>>>
>>>Bite Me. You were wrong all along. Get a life.
>>>
>>>Apple has developed into the BMW of comp. companies. My new
>>>8-core could not be more elegantly designed and built. Putting in
>>>more RAM was like working on a beautiful sports car and Leopard makes
>>>both Vista and XP look like bathroom grafitti in comparison.
>>>
>>>Cheap? No, but worth it, and there really is no competition if you care
>>>about the things it offers.
>>>
>>>Oh, and a guy from Apple spent hours with me sorting out my ethernet
>>>troubles.
>>>
>>>Nothing against PC's, but the platform wars are over. You pays yer
>>>nickel and takes yer choice.
>>>
>>>DC
>>>
>>>oh and with VM Fusion, I can put XP over here and Leopard over there
>>>on the same machine and the same monitor. Or on mon. 2 of an extended
>>>desktop.
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT The platform wars are over... [message #99719 is a reply to message #99710] |
Mon, 28 July 2008 13:06 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>Ah, the plight of the brutally oppressed Mac user.
>
>Well, in the case of the PC nazi dept. head, my wife got a termination
>letter hand delivered to her on New Years Eve. Rather than punching
>him in the nose, we filed a grievance. Both the dept. head
>and the provost who backed him were gone in 6 months when all the
>facts came out. It wasn't about platforms, it was about a very bad
>dept. head and the platform issue was a symptom, not a cause.
>
>
>
>I was working at a university
>>in the mid-90's when we gently suggested that, since there were very serious
>>questions as to whether Apple could continue as a going concern, it might
>>be a good idea for Mac-centric departments at least diversify their platform
>>choices.
>
>Reasonable advice. Zero chance of enforcing it on faculty as you
>discovered.
And had our concerns actually come to pass, i.e. Apple going out of business
which was a very real possibility back then, guess who the faculty would
have come whining to to bail them out? We were giving prudent advice that
SOME people ignored and the rest got a little lucky.
>
>>IT departments are charged with a different mission that home users. To
>this
>>day where I work I don't tell people what computers, operating systems,
>and
>>applications they can or can't use. It's not my job, or my place to tell
>>them that, what I CAN tell them is what I can promise them I will support.
>>I tell them that if they're running a laptop I set up with an operating
>system
>>I know if it breaks I'll fix it. If they want to use Mail on a OS X or
check
>>IRC using emacs on a minix machine, more power to them, but I can't say
>for
>>sure that I can fix things if they break.
>
>Fair enough. They have budgets and can pay for their own support.
>You do realize the implications, right?
As far as I can tell the implication is that I'm charged with giving world
class support to my users, which I do. In return they trust that I will make
good decisions for this organization about what can and can't be supported,
within reason. That means that on the OS level I advise people not to have
WORK machines that are Vista or OS X. Right now I have to be reasonably conversant
in Solaris 8/9/10, two flavors of linux (SuSE and Red Hat), and CISCO OS.
I also have to be fluent in Debian, Server 2k3, and Server 2000 and have
projects on hand that are forcing me to learn SQL Server 2005 (in addition
to the Oracle 9i db stuff we already have) plus at least basic C# and ASP.NET.
Since there only 24 hours in the day and I still like to sleep, eat, make
music, and get laid, I think I'd be doing a disservice to my users if I suddenly
decided to learn a new desktop platform.
Again, what are these implications you speak of?
TCB
>
>>But anyway, you're right, we're all out to 'ban' your Macs.
>
>Hmmm.
>
>DC
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT The platform wars are over... [message #99722 is a reply to message #99719] |
Mon, 28 July 2008 13:28 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>
>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Ah, the plight of the brutally oppressed Mac user.
>>
>>Well, in the case of the PC nazi dept. head, my wife got a termination
>>letter hand delivered to her on New Years Eve. Rather than punching
>>him in the nose, we filed a grievance. Both the dept. head
>>and the provost who backed him were gone in 6 months when all the
>>facts came out. It wasn't about platforms, it was about a very bad
>>dept. head and the platform issue was a symptom, not a cause.
>>
>>
>>
>>I was working at a university
>>>in the mid-90's when we gently suggested that, since there were very serious
>>>questions as to whether Apple could continue as a going concern, it might
>>>be a good idea for Mac-centric departments at least diversify their platform
>>>choices.
>>
>>Reasonable advice. Zero chance of enforcing it on faculty as you
>>discovered.
>
>And had our concerns actually come to pass, i.e. Apple going out of business
>which was a very real possibility back then, guess who the faculty would
>have come whining to to bail them out? We were giving prudent advice that
>SOME people ignored and the rest got a little lucky.
The people that ran around saying apple would be going out of business were
the ones that would have benefited the most by Apple going out of business,
MS zealots. Mac users about 25 to 35 million back in those days knew Apple
wouldn't be going out of business, regardless to the all the vicious lies
and false rumors. Some people believe that if you repeat a lie enough everybody
will believe it. You can fool some of the people some of the time but you
can't fool all of the people all of the time.
It wasn't good advice then and it still isn't now!
>
>>
>>>IT departments are charged with a different mission that home users. To
>>this
>>>day where I work I don't tell people what computers, operating systems,
>>and
>>>applications they can or can't use. It's not my job, or my place to tell
>>>them that, what I CAN tell them is what I can promise them I will support.
>>>I tell them that if they're running a laptop I set up with an operating
>>system
>>>I know if it breaks I'll fix it. If they want to use Mail on a OS X or
>check
>>>IRC using emacs on a minix machine, more power to them, but I can't say
>>for
>>>sure that I can fix things if they break.
>>
>>Fair enough. They have budgets and can pay for their own support.
>>You do realize the implications, right?
>
>As far as I can tell the implication is that I'm charged with giving world
>class support to my users, which I do. In return they trust that I will
make
>good decisions for this organization about what can and can't be supported,
>within reason. That means that on the OS level I advise people not to have
>WORK machines that are Vista or OS X. Right now I have to be reasonably
conversant
>in Solaris 8/9/10, two flavors of linux (SuSE and Red Hat), and CISCO OS.
>I also have to be fluent in Debian, Server 2k3, and Server 2000 and have
>projects on hand that are forcing me to learn SQL Server 2005 (in addition
>to the Oracle 9i db stuff we already have) plus at least basic C# and ASP.NET.
>Since there only 24 hours in the day and I still like to sleep, eat, make
>music, and get laid, I think I'd be doing a disservice to my users if I
suddenly
>decided to learn a new desktop platform.
That is a lot of stuff to know, so what's another OS? As time goes on, more
and more people are going to start using Mac OSX, it wouldn't hurt to learn
it.
>
>Again, what are these implications you speak of?
>
I think you are anti Mac because it fits in to the IT mentality, and I think
you think it threatens your livelihood. More Mac, less IT guys needed.
>TCB
>
>>
>>>But anyway, you're right, we're all out to 'ban' your Macs.
>>
>>Hmmm.
>>
>>DC
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT The platform wars are over... [message #99724 is a reply to message #99719] |
Mon, 28 July 2008 14:23 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>And had our concerns actually come to pass, i.e. Apple going out of business
>which was a very real possibility back then, guess who the faculty would
>have come whining to to bail them out? We were giving prudent advice that
>SOME people ignored and the rest got a little lucky.
Hah! One man's luck is another man's foresight I guess.
We knew it was BS. We were right. Call it luck if you like.
>As far as I can tell the implication is that I'm charged with giving world
>class support to my users, which I do. In return they trust that I will
make
>good decisions for this organization about what can and can't be supported,
>within reason. That means that on the OS level I advise people not to have
>WORK machines that are Vista or OS X. Right now I have to be reasonably
conversant
>in Solaris 8/9/10, two flavors of linux (SuSE and Red Hat), and CISCO OS.
>I also have to be fluent in Debian, Server 2k3, and Server 2000 and have
>projects on hand that are forcing me to learn SQL Server 2005 (in addition
>to the Oracle 9i db stuff we already have) plus at least basic C# and ASP.NET.
>Since there only 24 hours in the day and I still like to sleep, eat, make
>music, and get laid, I think I'd be doing a disservice to my users if I
suddenly
>decided to learn a new desktop platform.
Wow. But still, if a bunch of faculty want to use macs,
and they do, you either provide support or a nice
vendor will.
>Again, what are these implications you speak of?
Well in the case of the loudmouth IT guy and the PC
nazi dept head, it was unemployment.
DC
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT The platform wars are over... [message #99725 is a reply to message #99724] |
Mon, 28 July 2008 14:43 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>>And had our concerns actually come to pass, i.e. Apple going out of business
>>which was a very real possibility back then, guess who the faculty would
>>have come whining to to bail them out? We were giving prudent advice that
>>SOME people ignored and the rest got a little lucky.
>
>
>Hah! One man's luck is another man's foresight I guess.
>
>We knew it was BS. We were right. Call it luck if you like.
>
>
>>As far as I can tell the implication is that I'm charged with giving world
>>class support to my users, which I do. In return they trust that I will
>make
>>good decisions for this organization about what can and can't be supported,
>>within reason. That means that on the OS level I advise people not to have
>>WORK machines that are Vista or OS X. Right now I have to be reasonably
>conversant
>>in Solaris 8/9/10, two flavors of linux (SuSE and Red Hat), and CISCO OS.
>>I also have to be fluent in Debian, Server 2k3, and Server 2000 and have
>>projects on hand that are forcing me to learn SQL Server 2005 (in addition
>>to the Oracle 9i db stuff we already have) plus at least basic C# and ASP.NET.
>>Since there only 24 hours in the day and I still like to sleep, eat, make
>>music, and get laid, I think I'd be doing a disservice to my users if I
>suddenly
>>decided to learn a new desktop platform.
>
>Wow. But still, if a bunch of faculty want to use macs,
>and they do, you either provide support or a nice
>vendor will.
Luckily for me where I work at the university my users are really concerned
about support, and they are willing to trust that we, the IT group, will
make smart decisions for them. A month or two ago the boss of bosses in my
office brought his daughter's broken Macbook to work. Yes, Macs do break.
I spent a few hours on it at which point he said, 'Don't worry about it,
you have more important things to do.' That kind or recognition is unusual
in the IT world, but it's not accidental. Trust is built up over time with
quality service most of the time and honest explanations when things occasionally
go wrong. If your academic IT person had generated the level of distrust
it sound like s/he did, then s/he deserved to lose the job. That speaks to
their bad professional/personal skills, not to a computer platform.
TCB
>
>>Again, what are these implications you speak of?
>
>Well in the case of the loudmouth IT guy and the PC
>nazi dept head, it was unemployment.
>
>DC
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT The platform wars are over... [message #99726 is a reply to message #99705] |
Mon, 28 July 2008 14:39 |
|
|
The platform wars are over? Thank God, finally! I'm sure that's certainly an
enormous relief for all of us.
- Kerry
On 7/27/08 11:18 PM, in article 488d64cd$1@linux, "DC"
<dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
> In the early 1990's at the univ. I worked at, the IT guys tried to
> ban macs. If they found one in your dept. they would ridicule you
> and tried to enforce a "no mac" campus standard. They would talk about
> market share and comparisons to VHS vs. Betamax were tossed about
> freely.
>
> In the mid 1990's, my wife's dept head actually banned macs from the dept.
>
> Both the IT director and my wife's dept. head got canned, thankfully,
> but more importantly, let me be the first to declare the platform wars
> over.
>
> Apple is now #3
>
> http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Claws+Its+Way+Closer+to+the+T op+in+Retail+PC+Sa
> les/article12409.htm
>
> Who'da thunk?
>
> So, let me say to all the geek doomsayers and PC nazis
>
> Bite Me. You were wrong all along. Get a life.
>
> Apple has developed into the BMW of comp. companies. My new
> 8-core could not be more elegantly designed and built. Putting in
> more RAM was like working on a beautiful sports car and Leopard makes
> both Vista and XP look like bathroom grafitti in comparison.
>
> Cheap? No, but worth it, and there really is no competition if you care
> about the things it offers.
>
> Oh, and a guy from Apple spent hours with me sorting out my ethernet
> troubles.
>
> Nothing against PC's, but the platform wars are over. You pays yer
> nickel and takes yer choice.
>
> DC
>
> oh and with VM Fusion, I can put XP over here and Leopard over there
> on the same machine and the same monitor. Or on mon. 2 of an extended
> desktop.
"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT The platform wars are over... [message #99727 is a reply to message #99726] |
Mon, 28 July 2008 14:55 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Yeah, I know I am an optimist...
Still, there is little reason for them any more.
DC
Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>The platform wars are over? Thank God, finally! I'm sure that's certainly
an
>enormous relief for all of us.
>
>- Kerry
>
>On 7/27/08 11:18 PM, in article 488d64cd$1@linux, "DC"
><dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> In the early 1990's at the univ. I worked at, the IT guys tried to
>> ban macs. If they found one in your dept. they would ridicule you
>> and tried to enforce a "no mac" campus standard. They would talk about
>> market share and comparisons to VHS vs. Betamax were tossed about
>> freely.
>>
>> In the mid 1990's, my wife's dept head actually banned macs from the dept.
>>
>> Both the IT director and my wife's dept. head got canned, thankfully,
>> but more importantly, let me be the first to declare the platform wars
>> over.
>>
>> Apple is now #3
>>
>> http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Claws+Its+Way+Closer+to+the+T op+in+Retail+PC+Sa
>> les/article12409.htm
>>
>> Who'da thunk?
>>
>> So, let me say to all the geek doomsayers and PC nazis
>>
>> Bite Me. You were wrong all along. Get a life.
>>
>> Apple has developed into the BMW of comp. companies. My new
>> 8-core could not be more elegantly designed and built. Putting in
>> more RAM was like working on a beautiful sports car and Leopard makes
>> both Vista and XP look like bathroom grafitti in comparison.
>>
>> Cheap? No, but worth it, and there really is no competition if you care
>> about the things it offers.
>>
>> Oh, and a guy from Apple spent hours with me sorting out my ethernet
>> troubles.
>>
>> Nothing against PC's, but the platform wars are over. You pays yer
>> nickel and takes yer choice.
>>
>> DC
>>
>> oh and with VM Fusion, I can put XP over here and Leopard over there
>> on the same machine and the same monitor. Or on mon. 2 of an extended
>> desktop.
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT The platform wars are over... [message #99728 is a reply to message #99725] |
Mon, 28 July 2008 14:59 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>Luckily for me where I work at the university my users are really concerned
>about support, and they are willing to trust that we, the IT group, will
>make smart decisions for them. A month or two ago the boss of bosses in
my
>office brought his daughter's broken Macbook to work. Yes, Macs do break.
>I spent a few hours on it at which point he said, 'Don't worry about it,
>you have more important things to do.' That kind or recognition is unusual
>in the IT world, but it's not accidental. Trust is built up over time with
>quality service most of the time and honest explanations when things occasionally
>go wrong. If your academic IT person had generated the level of distrust
>it sound like s/he did, then s/he deserved to lose the job. That speaks
to
>their bad professional/personal skills, not to a computer platform.
Sounds like a good place to work.
Yes, the IT guy was an idiot. He got a job driving
trucks after that, and brought his big semi on to campus
to show us all what a big shot he was in his new job...
'cept he high-centered it on the exit to the parking lot
and phys plant had to spend the afternoon getting the
semi off the ramp...
He somehow had worked there for almost a decade...
Amazing.
DC
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT The platform wars are over... [message #99729 is a reply to message #99722] |
Mon, 28 July 2008 15:01 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
For the time being I'll pretend this response is meant in earnest, and with
an open mind.
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Ah, the plight of the brutally oppressed Mac user.
>>>
>>>Well, in the case of the PC nazi dept. head, my wife got a termination
>>>letter hand delivered to her on New Years Eve. Rather than punching
>>>him in the nose, we filed a grievance. Both the dept. head
>>>and the provost who backed him were gone in 6 months when all the
>>>facts came out. It wasn't about platforms, it was about a very bad
>>>dept. head and the platform issue was a symptom, not a cause.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I was working at a university
>>>>in the mid-90's when we gently suggested that, since there were very
serious
>>>>questions as to whether Apple could continue as a going concern, it might
>>>>be a good idea for Mac-centric departments at least diversify their platform
>>>>choices.
>>>
>>>Reasonable advice. Zero chance of enforcing it on faculty as you
>>>discovered.
>>
>>And had our concerns actually come to pass, i.e. Apple going out of business
>>which was a very real possibility back then, guess who the faculty would
>>have come whining to to bail them out? We were giving prudent advice that
>>SOME people ignored and the rest got a little lucky.
>
>The people that ran around saying apple would be going out of business were
>the ones that would have benefited the most by Apple going out of business,
>MS zealots. Mac users about 25 to 35 million back in those days knew Apple
>wouldn't be going out of business, regardless to the all the vicious lies
>and false rumors. Some people believe that if you repeat a lie enough everybody
>will believe it. You can fool some of the people some of the time but you
>can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Actually MSFT sunk a couple hundred million into Apple and promised continuing
Office support, so the 'MSFT zealots' (which of course I'm not) if anything
were helping to keep power going to the life support system Apple was on.
>It wasn't good advice then and it still isn't now!
>>
>>>
>>>>IT departments are charged with a different mission that home users.
To
>>>this
>>>>day where I work I don't tell people what computers, operating systems,
>>>and
>>>>applications they can or can't use. It's not my job, or my place to tell
>>>>them that, what I CAN tell them is what I can promise them I will support.
>>>>I tell them that if they're running a laptop I set up with an operating
>>>system
>>>>I know if it breaks I'll fix it. If they want to use Mail on a OS X or
>>check
>>>>IRC using emacs on a minix machine, more power to them, but I can't say
>>>for
>>>>sure that I can fix things if they break.
>>>
>>>Fair enough. They have budgets and can pay for their own support.
>>>You do realize the implications, right?
>>
>>As far as I can tell the implication is that I'm charged with giving world
>>class support to my users, which I do. In return they trust that I will
>make
>>good decisions for this organization about what can and can't be supported,
>>within reason. That means that on the OS level I advise people not to have
>>WORK machines that are Vista or OS X. Right now I have to be reasonably
>conversant
>>in Solaris 8/9/10, two flavors of linux (SuSE and Red Hat), and CISCO OS.
>>I also have to be fluent in Debian, Server 2k3, and Server 2000 and have
>>projects on hand that are forcing me to learn SQL Server 2005 (in addition
>>to the Oracle 9i db stuff we already have) plus at least basic C# and ASP.NET.
>>Since there only 24 hours in the day and I still like to sleep, eat, make
>>music, and get laid, I think I'd be doing a disservice to my users if I
>suddenly
>>decided to learn a new desktop platform.
>
>That is a lot of stuff to know, so what's another OS? As time goes on,
more
>and more people are going to start using Mac OSX, it wouldn't hurt to learn
>it.
While it certainly wouldn't 'hurt,' is learning another desktop OS really
the best use of my time? I'd say learning more about how OLAP cubes could
be used to calculate performance data for my users would do them more good.
If the people who sign my paychecks and award my bonus want Macs supported,
we can talk about that, but we run a very safe, secure, high performance,
low maintenance AD/XP network here. So far, my people seem to want me to
leverage that and work on custom db/dev work instead of troubleshooting Don's
NIC that couldn't autonegotiate a 100 mb/s connection.
>>
>>Again, what are these implications you speak of?
>>
>
>I think you are anti Mac because it fits in to the IT mentality, and I think
>you think it threatens your livelihood. More Mac, less IT guys needed.
Just because _you_ can't run an efficient, reliable Windows network doesn't
mean that _I_ can't. Precisely because desktop support and OS stuff is a
moving target, and prone to fashion, and a young man's game, over the past
few years I've been staking my livelihood ever more on networking (can't
outsource that to Bangalore), database programming, and recently other dev
work.
TCB
>>TCB
>>
>>>
>>>>But anyway, you're right, we're all out to 'ban' your Macs.
>>>
>>>Hmmm.
>>>
>>>DC
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT The platform wars are over... [message #99731 is a reply to message #99727] |
Mon, 28 July 2008 15:45 |
|
|
One of the biggest PC DAW advocates in town just bought a Macbook and an
iPhone; he was on the phone to me completely stoked this morning, he was so
excited about the new adventure. On the flip side, me - a Mac guy since '91
- I'll be leaning on him (and the community here) heavily when I set up my
first XP-based PARIS rig. It's all over, we can all have the tools we need
now, it's just a matter of choices - and all the choices are good ones.
The only part that really disturbs me is we don't have any good excuses left
if we can't make music with these tools... :D
- Kerry
On 7/28/08 2:55 PM, in article 488e4060$1@linux, "DC"
<dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
> Yeah, I know I am an optimist...
>
> Still, there is little reason for them any more.
>
> DC
>
>
> Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>> The platform wars are over? Thank God, finally! I'm sure that's certainly
> an
>> enormous relief for all of us.
>>
>> - Kerry
>>
>> On 7/27/08 11:18 PM, in article 488d64cd$1@linux, "DC"
>> <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> In the early 1990's at the univ. I worked at, the IT guys tried to
>>> ban macs. If they found one in your dept. they would ridicule you
>>> and tried to enforce a "no mac" campus standard. They would talk about
>>> market share and comparisons to VHS vs. Betamax were tossed about
>>> freely.
>>>
>>> In the mid 1990's, my wife's dept head actually banned macs from the dept.
>>>
>>> Both the IT director and my wife's dept. head got canned, thankfully,
>>> but more importantly, let me be the first to declare the platform wars
>>> over.
>>>
>>> Apple is now #3
>>>
>>> http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Claws+Its+Way+Closer+to+the+T op+in+Retail+PC+
>>> Sa
>>> les/article12409.htm
>>>
>>> Who'da thunk?
>>>
>>> So, let me say to all the geek doomsayers and PC nazis
>>>
>>> Bite Me. You were wrong all along. Get a life.
>>>
>>> Apple has developed into the BMW of comp. companies. My new
>>> 8-core could not be more elegantly designed and built. Putting in
>>> more RAM was like working on a beautiful sports car and Leopard makes
>>> both Vista and XP look like bathroom grafitti in comparison.
>>>
>>> Cheap? No, but worth it, and there really is no competition if you care
>>> about the things it offers.
>>>
>>> Oh, and a guy from Apple spent hours with me sorting out my ethernet
>>> troubles.
>>>
>>> Nothing against PC's, but the platform wars are over. You pays yer
>>> nickel and takes yer choice.
>>>
>>> DC
>>>
>>> oh and with VM Fusion, I can put XP over here and Leopard over there
>>> on the same machine and the same monitor. Or on mon. 2 of an extended
>>> desktop.
>>
>
"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT The platform wars are over... [message #99734 is a reply to message #99731] |
Mon, 28 July 2008 16:53 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
One real advantage the PC Paris guys have is the plugs
that keep coming out. Dang!
Also, Paris works better when boosting levels inside the
EQ on PC than it does on Macs for some reason.
Almost makes me miss Windows 95...
DC
Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>One of the biggest PC DAW advocates in town just bought a Macbook and an
>iPhone; he was on the phone to me completely stoked this morning, he was
so
>excited about the new adventure. On the flip side, me - a Mac guy since
'91
>- I'll be leaning on him (and the community here) heavily when I set up
my
>first XP-based PARIS rig. It's all over, we can all have the tools we need
>now, it's just a matter of choices - and all the choices are good ones.
>
>The only part that really disturbs me is we don't have any good excuses
left
>if we can't make music with these tools... :D
>
>- Kerry
>
>On 7/28/08 2:55 PM, in article 488e4060$1@linux, "DC"
><dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Yeah, I know I am an optimist...
>>
>> Still, there is little reason for them any more.
>>
>> DC
>>
>>
>> Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>>> The platform wars are over? Thank God, finally! I'm sure that's certainly
>> an
>>> enormous relief for all of us.
>>>
>>> - Kerry
>>>
>>> On 7/27/08 11:18 PM, in article 488d64cd$1@linux, "DC"
>>> <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> In the early 1990's at the univ. I worked at, the IT guys tried to
>>>> ban macs. If they found one in your dept. they would ridicule you
>>>> and tried to enforce a "no mac" campus standard. They would talk about
>>>> market share and comparisons to VHS vs. Betamax were tossed about
>>>> freely.
>>>>
>>>> In the mid 1990's, my wife's dept head actually banned macs from the
dept.
>>>>
>>>> Both the IT director and my wife's dept. head got canned, thankfully,
>>>> but more importantly, let me be the first to declare the platform wars
>>>> over.
>>>>
>>>> Apple is now #3
>>>>
>>>> http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Claws+Its+Way+Closer+to+the+T op+in+Retail+PC+
>>>> Sa
>>>> les/article12409.htm
>>>>
>>>> Who'da thunk?
>>>>
>>>> So, let me say to all the geek doomsayers and PC nazis
>>>>
>>>> Bite Me. You were wrong all along. Get a life.
>>>>
>>>> Apple has developed into the BMW of comp. companies. My new
>>>> 8-core could not be more elegantly designed and built. Putting in
>>>> more RAM was like working on a beautiful sports car and Leopard makes
>>>> both Vista and XP look like bathroom grafitti in comparison.
>>>>
>>>> Cheap? No, but worth it, and there really is no competition if you
care
>>>> about the things it offers.
>>>>
>>>> Oh, and a guy from Apple spent hours with me sorting out my ethernet
>>>> troubles.
>>>>
>>>> Nothing against PC's, but the platform wars are over. You pays yer
>>>> nickel and takes yer choice.
>>>>
>>>> DC
>>>>
>>>> oh and with VM Fusion, I can put XP over here and Leopard over there
>>>> on the same machine and the same monitor. Or on mon. 2 of an extended
>>>> desktop.
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT The platform wars are over... [message #99748 is a reply to message #99705] |
Mon, 28 July 2008 20:56 |
Bill L
Messages: 766
Registered: August 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Yeah, but why were you having ethernet trouble? ;-)
DC wrote:
> In the early 1990's at the univ. I worked at, the IT guys tried to
> ban macs. If they found one in your dept. they would ridicule you
> and tried to enforce a "no mac" campus standard. They would talk about
> market share and comparisons to VHS vs. Betamax were tossed about
> freely.
>
> In the mid 1990's, my wife's dept head actually banned macs from the dept.
>
> Both the IT director and my wife's dept. head got canned, thankfully,
> but more importantly, let me be the first to declare the platform wars
> over.
>
> Apple is now #3
>
> http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Claws+Its+Way+Closer+to+the+T op+in+Retail+PC+Sales/article12409.htm
>
> Who'da thunk?
>
> So, let me say to all the geek doomsayers and PC nazis
>
> Bite Me. You were wrong all along. Get a life.
>
> Apple has developed into the BMW of comp. companies. My new
> 8-core could not be more elegantly designed and built. Putting in
> more RAM was like working on a beautiful sports car and Leopard makes
> both Vista and XP look like bathroom grafitti in comparison.
>
> Cheap? No, but worth it, and there really is no competition if you care
> about the things it offers.
>
> Oh, and a guy from Apple spent hours with me sorting out my ethernet
> troubles.
>
> Nothing against PC's, but the platform wars are over. You pays yer
> nickel and takes yer choice.
>
> DC
>
> oh and with VM Fusion, I can put XP over here and Leopard over there
> on the same machine and the same monitor. Or on mon. 2 of an extended
> desktop.
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT The platform wars are over... [message #99749 is a reply to message #99748] |
Mon, 28 July 2008 21:47 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
If that's the worst that happens, I am a happy guy.
DC
Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>Yeah, but why were you having ethernet trouble? ;-)
>
>DC wrote:
>> In the early 1990's at the univ. I worked at, the IT guys tried to
>> ban macs. If they found one in your dept. they would ridicule you
>> and tried to enforce a "no mac" campus standard. They would talk about
>> market share and comparisons to VHS vs. Betamax were tossed about
>> freely.
>>
>> In the mid 1990's, my wife's dept head actually banned macs from the dept.
>>
>> Both the IT director and my wife's dept. head got canned, thankfully,
>> but more importantly, let me be the first to declare the platform wars
>> over.
>>
>> Apple is now #3
>>
>> http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Claws+Its+Way+Closer+to+the+T op+in+Retail+PC+Sales/article12409.htm
>>
>> Who'da thunk?
>>
>> So, let me say to all the geek doomsayers and PC nazis
>>
>> Bite Me. You were wrong all along. Get a life.
>>
>> Apple has developed into the BMW of comp. companies. My new
>> 8-core could not be more elegantly designed and built. Putting in
>> more RAM was like working on a beautiful sports car and Leopard makes
>> both Vista and XP look like bathroom grafitti in comparison.
>>
>> Cheap? No, but worth it, and there really is no competition if you care
>> about the things it offers.
>>
>> Oh, and a guy from Apple spent hours with me sorting out my ethernet
>> troubles.
>>
>> Nothing against PC's, but the platform wars are over. You pays yer
>> nickel and takes yer choice.
>>
>> DC
>>
>> oh and with VM Fusion, I can put XP over here and Leopard over there
>> on the same machine and the same monitor. Or on mon. 2 of an extended
>> desktop.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT The platform wars are over... [message #99755 is a reply to message #99705] |
Tue, 29 July 2008 11:55 |
Sarah
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
There was a war? Is it really a war if only one side is fighting?
S
PS: Does this mean those stupid Mac vs PC ads on TV will stop?
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:488d64cd$1@linux...
>
> In the early 1990's at the univ. I worked at, the IT guys tried to
> ban macs. If they found one in your dept. they would ridicule you
> and tried to enforce a "no mac" campus standard. They would talk about
> market share and comparisons to VHS vs. Betamax were tossed about
> freely.
>
> In the mid 1990's, my wife's dept head actually banned macs from the dept.
>
> Both the IT director and my wife's dept. head got canned, thankfully,
> but more importantly, let me be the first to declare the platform wars
> over.
>
> Apple is now #3
>
> http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Claws+Its+Way+Closer+to+the+T op+in+Retail+PC+Sales/article12409.htm
>
> Who'da thunk?
>
> So, let me say to all the geek doomsayers and PC nazis
>
> Bite Me. You were wrong all along. Get a life.
>
> Apple has developed into the BMW of comp. companies. My new
> 8-core could not be more elegantly designed and built. Putting in
> more RAM was like working on a beautiful sports car and Leopard makes
> both Vista and XP look like bathroom grafitti in comparison.
>
> Cheap? No, but worth it, and there really is no competition if you care
> about the things it offers.
>
> Oh, and a guy from Apple spent hours with me sorting out my ethernet
> troubles.
>
> Nothing against PC's, but the platform wars are over. You pays yer
> nickel and takes yer choice.
>
> DC
>
> oh and with VM Fusion, I can put XP over here and Leopard over there
> on the same machine and the same monitor. Or on mon. 2 of an extended
> desktop.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT The platform wars are over... [message #99768 is a reply to message #99761] |
Tue, 29 July 2008 17:21 |
|
|
Oh, you nailed that one. If one or the other OS had "won" by eliminating the
other, we'd be utterly hosed. The "other OS" is your best friend - or Macs
would still have one button mice and menus that won't stay down, and PCs
would still be copying and moving files from the command line.
- K
On 7/29/08 2:47 PM, in article 488f91f3$1@linux, "Jamie K"
<JamieN0-SPAM@JamieKrutzN0-SPAM.com> wrote:
>
> Actually it's better if everyone doesn't buy a single operating system.
> Competition is good, and there's not much left.
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
> John wrote:
>> hahah, hilarious Sarah, you are right though. Mac users went on their
>> crusade to convert all the pc users to their more expensive solution only
>> for us pc users to not really give a shit.
>>
>> to be fair i wish i started on a mac and paid the higher price but now i'm
>> married to microsoft apps and won't be changing over anytime soon. but it
>> was always funny how they were/are so passionate about a stupid computer.
>>
>> I'm gonna convert you to my super zot 3 model toaster cuz all the other
>> toasters
>> suck and if you don't buy into my toaster you're an idiot
>>
>> Super Zot 3 rules !!!
"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Fri Nov 22 18:57:00 PST 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.03440 seconds
|
The PARIS Forums
Search
Help
Members
Register
Login
Home
