Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » TOTALLY off topic!
| Re: TOTALLY off topic! [message #95433 is a reply to message #95431] |
Sat, 02 February 2008 21:23   |
Sarah
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Dude, if my neighbor starts mowing his lawn on sunday mornings again, I will
definitely stone him, and do so with impunity. Bible's orders.
S
"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:47a54c72$1@linux...
>
> So, how did humans get "saved" before Jesus? We've been around for 40 or
> 50 or even 60 thousand years now and we have a fair amount of documentable
> history from the last 10 or 15 thousand. Who "saved" Lord Krishna? Who
> saved the Buddha? Did they and all their followers go to Hell because
> Jesus
> hadn't been born yet? I'm asking a serious question here - one that I
> don't
> think your bible can answer. I once asked a born again Christian friend
> what would happen to a Buddhist who had led a perfect Buddhist life - one
> of kindness and service to his (or her) fellow man, a life without fault
> - who had never been exposed to the Word of God as taught by Jesus the
> Christ?
> Would he go to Heaven or Hell? My friend replied that in order to enter
> the Kingdom of Heaven he would have to accept Jesus as his Lord and
> Saviour.
> I don't buy that. God has existed forever. Jesus existed 2000 years ago.
> God has never changed. Only our perceptions have changed. I maintain
> that
> the Perfect Buddhist would have gone where we all go - back to God. Call
> it Heaven if you like. We all go back there. There is no other place to
> go.
>
> I've never read the New Testament. Maybe someday I will. I have, however
> read much of the Torah, which is what we Jews call the Old Testament. I
> don't much agree with the parts that discuss who and how we can own other
> people as slaves or how much I can sell my daughter for or why I should
> stone
> someone to death who does work on the Sabbath. The Torah is allegedly the
> Word Of God too, isn't it? Jesus was a Jew. What do you suppose he
> believed?
> I've read a bit about the history of the Old Testament. It's interesting
> to see how and when the stories were organized into the form we now know
> it. It's also interesting to read the theories about who wrote the
> stories
> and what their social/political reasons might have been. Why would the
> writing
> of the New Testament be significantly different? And why should I accept
> any of these writings as the literal, pure and true Word Of God? You can
> argue faith and I accept that. Can you accept that my faith in God
> doesn't
> need a saviour named Jesus? And that I can accept the fact of Jesus'
> existance
> and the importance of his teachings without needing to believe that he was
> the son of God?
>
> Man! My apologies to everyone here! I started this thread to discuss
> 9-11
> conspiracy theories and international banker cabals! Honest! I'm even
> willing
> to throw a few Alien Invasion theories into the mix!
>
> Peace,
>
> Gantt
>
> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Faith is like trust, it's not always 100%, but you either have it or you
> don't.
>>
>>
>>It's easy to put things together and come to the wrong conclusion,
>>especially
>>if that's somebody's intention. They talk about light and darkness. They
>>talk about the mother of Jesus name starting with an M. You can't explain
>>Christianity with astrology. You could say that women's names back in
>>those
>>days started with an M because M names are a derivative of the name
>>Mother.
>> You could say that the name Daughter is from the word Dawn which means
> new
>>beginning and there for... bla bla bla. You can twist things around and
>>say this means this, and this means that, because bla bla bla. I suggest
>>you guys do a little research on all of these claims that all of religious
>>figures, all had mothers that were virgins and their name started with the
>>letter M, instead of taking their word for it. I suggest that those that
>>don't believe, read the bible for themselves a few times and decide for
> themselves.
>>
>>I'm not vary good at this but I will try to explain the concept of light
>>and darkness. Darkness denies the truth. In total darkness there is no
>>truth. The light is the truth. If you were blind folded and taken in to
>>a room that was void of light, you would not know the truth. If you were
>>sitting at a table, you would not be able to tell me what is on the table,
>>or how big the room is. You would not know if the room was full of king
>>cobras or not. With light, you can see the truth. Being in darkness is
>>void of the truth. Being in darkness is ignorance of the truth. The
>>truth
>>is the light. To deny the truth is to be in darkness. When people deny
>>the truth, it's because they are in darkness and can't see the truth.
>>Many
>>want to keep you in the dark. many will twist the truth to deceive you
> and
>>keep you in the dark.
>>
>>God is the truth and the light. It's easy for people to knock something
>>they don't really know about, especially if they've only heard half the
> story.
>> You don't have to take my word for it, go seek the truth and read the
>> bible
>>for your self and you decide.
>>
>>
>>
>>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>The answer to your last question is in the Bible,
>>>
>>>Now I don't know or care about this film...
>>>
>>>...but isn't the above kinda like stating that "You can find out whether
>>>GWB has been a good president by reading his press release"?
>>>
>>>Cheers,
>>>Kim.
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: TOTALLY off topic! [message #95435 is a reply to message #95431] |
Sun, 03 February 2008 00:10 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>So, how did humans get "saved" before Jesus?
You as a Jew should know this I think. They looked forward
to the plan of salvation's completion, we look back.
The cross is at the center.
>We've been around for 40 or
>50 or even 60 thousand years now and we have a fair amount of documentable
>history from the last 10 or 15 thousand. Who "saved" Lord Krishna? Who
>saved the Buddha? Did they and all their followers go to Hell because Jesus
>hadn't been born yet? I'm asking a serious question here - one that I don't
>think your bible can answer.
Yes it can.
John 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I
must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one
fold, and one shepherd.
All who seek the voice of God will find it. The question then
is will they follow it?
>I once asked a born again Christian friend
>what would happen to a Buddhist who had led a perfect Buddhist life - one
>of kindness and service to his (or her) fellow man, a life without fault
>- who had never been exposed to the Word of God as taught by Jesus the
Christ?
> Would he go to Heaven or Hell? My friend replied that in order to enter
>the Kingdom of Heaven he would have to accept Jesus as his Lord and Saviour.
> I don't buy that.
Well your buddhist friend doesn't believe in a personal
God that may be know, nor do they believe in salvation,
so it could not have been a big issue for them.
Personally, I believe that we assent to the presence of God
in our lives, not the name of Jesus, like a magic phrase.
Follow that presence, and you will come to the cross eventually
if that is God's will. No one goes to hell for not saying the
name. Not in my understanding.
>God has existed forever. Jesus existed 2000 years ago.
The Word became flesh and dwelt amoung us.
> God has never changed. Only our perceptions have changed. I maintain
that
>the Perfect Buddhist would have gone where we all go - back to God. Call
>it Heaven if you like. We all go back there. There is no other place to
>go.
>
>I've never read the New Testament. Maybe someday I will. I have, however
>read much of the Torah, which is what we Jews call the Old Testament.
I am part Jewish. Read the new Testament sometime.
>I don't much agree with the parts that discuss who and how we can own other
>people as slaves or how much I can sell my daughter for or why I should
stone
>someone to death who does work on the Sabbath. The Torah is allegedly the
>Word Of God too, isn't it?
The concepts of God, may be found there, but it was written
by men. I do not believe in word for word inspiration.
>Jesus was a Jew. What do you suppose he believed?
Read the New Testament and see.
> I've read a bit about the history of the Old Testament. It's interesting
>to see how and when the stories were organized into the form we now know
>it. It's also interesting to read the theories about who wrote the stories
>and what their social/political reasons might have been. Why would the
writing
>of the New Testament be significantly different? And why should I accept
>any of these writings as the literal, pure and true Word Of God?
Start with reading it. then, if you have specific issues, let's
talk.
>You can
>argue faith and I accept that. Can you accept that my faith in God doesn't
>need a saviour named Jesus?
Already did. It is not my place to consign anyone to hell, but
to point them to the truest expression of God's desire for
us. Jesus.
>And that I can accept the fact of Jesus' existance
>and the importance of his teachings without needing to believe that he was
>the son of God?
Then you reject his teachings.
>Man! My apologies to everyone here! I started this thread to discuss 9-11
>conspiracy theories and international banker cabals! Honest! I'm even
willing
>to throw a few Alien Invasion theories into the mix!
Well, there is a lot more substance here isn't there?
At least I think so.
best,
DC
|
|
|
|
| Re: TOTALLY off topic! [message #95436 is a reply to message #95433] |
Sun, 03 February 2008 00:11 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Wasn't it you who said:
Everybody must get stoned...
Sorry...
DC
"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>Dude, if my neighbor starts mowing his lawn on sunday mornings again, I
will
>definitely stone him, and do so with impunity. Bible's orders.
>
>S
>
>
>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:47a54c72$1@linux...
>>
>> So, how did humans get "saved" before Jesus? We've been around for 40
or
>> 50 or even 60 thousand years now and we have a fair amount of documentable
>> history from the last 10 or 15 thousand. Who "saved" Lord Krishna? Who
>> saved the Buddha? Did they and all their followers go to Hell because
>> Jesus
>> hadn't been born yet? I'm asking a serious question here - one that I
>> don't
>> think your bible can answer. I once asked a born again Christian friend
>> what would happen to a Buddhist who had led a perfect Buddhist life -
one
>> of kindness and service to his (or her) fellow man, a life without fault
>> - who had never been exposed to the Word of God as taught by Jesus the
>> Christ?
>> Would he go to Heaven or Hell? My friend replied that in order to enter
>> the Kingdom of Heaven he would have to accept Jesus as his Lord and
>> Saviour.
>> I don't buy that. God has existed forever. Jesus existed 2000 years
ago.
>> God has never changed. Only our perceptions have changed. I maintain
>> that
>> the Perfect Buddhist would have gone where we all go - back to God. Call
>> it Heaven if you like. We all go back there. There is no other place
to
>> go.
>>
>> I've never read the New Testament. Maybe someday I will. I have, however
>> read much of the Torah, which is what we Jews call the Old Testament.
I
>> don't much agree with the parts that discuss who and how we can own other
>> people as slaves or how much I can sell my daughter for or why I should
>> stone
>> someone to death who does work on the Sabbath. The Torah is allegedly
the
>> Word Of God too, isn't it? Jesus was a Jew. What do you suppose he
>> believed?
>> I've read a bit about the history of the Old Testament. It's interesting
>> to see how and when the stories were organized into the form we now know
>> it. It's also interesting to read the theories about who wrote the
>> stories
>> and what their social/political reasons might have been. Why would the
>> writing
>> of the New Testament be significantly different? And why should I accept
>> any of these writings as the literal, pure and true Word Of God? You
can
>> argue faith and I accept that. Can you accept that my faith in God
>> doesn't
>> need a saviour named Jesus? And that I can accept the fact of Jesus'
>> existance
>> and the importance of his teachings without needing to believe that he
was
>> the son of God?
>>
>> Man! My apologies to everyone here! I started this thread to discuss
>> 9-11
>> conspiracy theories and international banker cabals! Honest! I'm even
>> willing
>> to throw a few Alien Invasion theories into the mix!
>>
>> Peace,
>>
>> Gantt
>>
>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Faith is like trust, it's not always 100%, but you either have it or you
>> don't.
>>>
>>>
>>>It's easy to put things together and come to the wrong conclusion,
>>>especially
>>>if that's somebody's intention. They talk about light and darkness.
They
>>>talk about the mother of Jesus name starting with an M. You can't explain
>>>Christianity with astrology. You could say that women's names back in
>>>those
>>>days started with an M because M names are a derivative of the name
>>>Mother.
>>> You could say that the name Daughter is from the word Dawn which means
>> new
>>>beginning and there for... bla bla bla. You can twist things around
and
>>>say this means this, and this means that, because bla bla bla. I suggest
>>>you guys do a little research on all of these claims that all of religious
>>>figures, all had mothers that were virgins and their name started with
the
>>>letter M, instead of taking their word for it. I suggest that those that
>>>don't believe, read the bible for themselves a few times and decide for
>> themselves.
>>>
>>>I'm not vary good at this but I will try to explain the concept of light
>>>and darkness. Darkness denies the truth. In total darkness there is
no
>>>truth. The light is the truth. If you were blind folded and taken in
to
>>>a room that was void of light, you would not know the truth. If you were
>>>sitting at a table, you would not be able to tell me what is on the table,
>>>or how big the room is. You would not know if the room was full of king
>>>cobras or not. With light, you can see the truth. Being in darkness
is
>>>void of the truth. Being in darkness is ignorance of the truth. The
>>>truth
>>>is the light. To deny the truth is to be in darkness. When people deny
>>>the truth, it's because they are in darkness and can't see the truth.
>>>Many
>>>want to keep you in the dark. many will twist the truth to deceive you
>> and
>>>keep you in the dark.
>>>
>>>God is the truth and the light. It's easy for people to knock something
>>>they don't really know about, especially if they've only heard half the
>> story.
>>> You don't have to take my word for it, go seek the truth and read the
>>> bible
>>>for your self and you decide.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The answer to your last question is in the Bible,
>>>>
>>>>Now I don't know or care about this film...
>>>>
>>>>...but isn't the above kinda like stating that "You can find out whether
>>>>GWB has been a good president by reading his press release"?
>>>>
>>>>Cheers,
>>>>Kim.
>>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: TOTALLY off topic! [message #95437 is a reply to message #95436] |
Sat, 02 February 2008 23:05 |
Sarah
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Well . . . mustn't we? I mean seriously . . .
S
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:47a5690b$1@linux...
>
> Wasn't it you who said:
>
>
> Everybody must get stoned...
>
>
>
> Sorry...
>
> DC
>
>
>
> "Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>Dude, if my neighbor starts mowing his lawn on sunday mornings again, I
> will
>>definitely stone him, and do so with impunity. Bible's orders.
>>
>>S
>>
>>
>>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:47a54c72$1@linux...
>>>
>>> So, how did humans get "saved" before Jesus? We've been around for 40
> or
>>> 50 or even 60 thousand years now and we have a fair amount of
>>> documentable
>>> history from the last 10 or 15 thousand. Who "saved" Lord Krishna? Who
>>> saved the Buddha? Did they and all their followers go to Hell because
>
>>> Jesus
>>> hadn't been born yet? I'm asking a serious question here - one that I
>
>>> don't
>>> think your bible can answer. I once asked a born again Christian friend
>>> what would happen to a Buddhist who had led a perfect Buddhist life -
> one
>>> of kindness and service to his (or her) fellow man, a life without fault
>>> - who had never been exposed to the Word of God as taught by Jesus the
>
>>> Christ?
>>> Would he go to Heaven or Hell? My friend replied that in order to enter
>>> the Kingdom of Heaven he would have to accept Jesus as his Lord and
>>> Saviour.
>>> I don't buy that. God has existed forever. Jesus existed 2000 years
> ago.
>>> God has never changed. Only our perceptions have changed. I maintain
>
>>> that
>>> the Perfect Buddhist would have gone where we all go - back to God.
>>> Call
>>> it Heaven if you like. We all go back there. There is no other place
> to
>>> go.
>>>
>>> I've never read the New Testament. Maybe someday I will. I have,
>>> however
>>> read much of the Torah, which is what we Jews call the Old Testament.
> I
>>> don't much agree with the parts that discuss who and how we can own
>>> other
>>> people as slaves or how much I can sell my daughter for or why I should
>
>>> stone
>>> someone to death who does work on the Sabbath. The Torah is allegedly
> the
>>> Word Of God too, isn't it? Jesus was a Jew. What do you suppose he
>>> believed?
>>> I've read a bit about the history of the Old Testament. It's
>>> interesting
>>> to see how and when the stories were organized into the form we now know
>>> it. It's also interesting to read the theories about who wrote the
>>> stories
>>> and what their social/political reasons might have been. Why would the
>
>>> writing
>>> of the New Testament be significantly different? And why should I
>>> accept
>>> any of these writings as the literal, pure and true Word Of God? You
> can
>>> argue faith and I accept that. Can you accept that my faith in God
>>> doesn't
>>> need a saviour named Jesus? And that I can accept the fact of Jesus'
>
>>> existance
>>> and the importance of his teachings without needing to believe that he
> was
>>> the son of God?
>>>
>>> Man! My apologies to everyone here! I started this thread to discuss
>
>>> 9-11
>>> conspiracy theories and international banker cabals! Honest! I'm even
>
>>> willing
>>> to throw a few Alien Invasion theories into the mix!
>>>
>>> Peace,
>>>
>>> Gantt
>>>
>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Faith is like trust, it's not always 100%, but you either have it or you
>>> don't.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It's easy to put things together and come to the wrong conclusion,
>>>>especially
>>>>if that's somebody's intention. They talk about light and darkness.
> They
>>>>talk about the mother of Jesus name starting with an M. You can't
>>>>explain
>>>>Christianity with astrology. You could say that women's names back in
>
>>>>those
>>>>days started with an M because M names are a derivative of the name
>>>>Mother.
>>>> You could say that the name Daughter is from the word Dawn which means
>>> new
>>>>beginning and there for... bla bla bla. You can twist things around
> and
>>>>say this means this, and this means that, because bla bla bla. I
>>>>suggest
>>>>you guys do a little research on all of these claims that all of
>>>>religious
>>>>figures, all had mothers that were virgins and their name started with
> the
>>>>letter M, instead of taking their word for it. I suggest that those
>>>>that
>>>>don't believe, read the bible for themselves a few times and decide for
>>> themselves.
>>>>
>>>>I'm not vary good at this but I will try to explain the concept of light
>>>>and darkness. Darkness denies the truth. In total darkness there is
> no
>>>>truth. The light is the truth. If you were blind folded and taken in
> to
>>>>a room that was void of light, you would not know the truth. If you
>>>>were
>>>>sitting at a table, you would not be able to tell me what is on the
>>>>table,
>>>>or how big the room is. You would not know if the room was full of king
>>>>cobras or not. With light, you can see the truth. Being in darkness
> is
>>>>void of the truth. Being in darkness is ignorance of the truth. The
>
>>>>truth
>>>>is the light. To deny the truth is to be in darkness. When people deny
>>>>the truth, it's because they are in darkness and can't see the truth.
>
>>>>Many
>>>>want to keep you in the dark. many will twist the truth to deceive you
>>> and
>>>>keep you in the dark.
>>>>
>>>>God is the truth and the light. It's easy for people to knock something
>>>>they don't really know about, especially if they've only heard half the
>>> story.
>>>> You don't have to take my word for it, go seek the truth and read the
>
>>>> bible
>>>>for your self and you decide.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>The answer to your last question is in the Bible,
>>>>>
>>>>>Now I don't know or care about this film...
>>>>>
>>>>>...but isn't the above kinda like stating that "You can find out
>>>>>whether
>>>>>GWB has been a good president by reading his press release"?
>>>>>
>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>Kim.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: TOTALLY off topic! [message #95439 is a reply to message #95393] |
Sun, 03 February 2008 02:14 |
Erling
Messages: 156
Registered: October 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Gantt, don't be sorry for the can of worms you have opened;-)
As a born in Christian from my start of life, growing up with the
bible in hand in my youth, as the only truth, observing what's
happening around me with all kind of humans I've met on my way, I
can't say I've seen the light in a religious way after over 60 years
of living. For me, there's only three truths: The first, when we were
born - the last, when the death is coming - the second, in the middle
of the first and last, we, the humans are for the most running
confused around trying to find the meaning with the curios life.
For me, all religions are cultural, human made after million of years
with humans speculations and searches for the good life, where new
generations growing up, allways want to speculate their own ways over
the good and bad things.
Maybe I can cook it down to some small but big things in life to take
care of, that seems to work for me:
If you knows how it is to be in love with someone, be sure to love
yourself as much as you can love these someones around you. Then you
are making good steps to make things good for all around your way.
Just an opinion that I'm living well with:-)
Erling
On 3 Feb 2008 09:25:18 +1000, "Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net>
wrote:
>
>I knew I'd be sorry for opening this can of works! It's not the first part
>of the Zeitgeist movie that concerns me but that's probably because I'm not
>a Christian. I hope you all can forgive me. I know God does. I believe
>that God loves us all, no matter what we do or what we believe. I believe
>that the hand of God has been at work in all the great religious scriptures
>- from the Bhagavad Gita to the Koran to the many versions of the Bible.
> However i believe that all those books are the work of men (and maybe some
>women) and as such reflect their beliefs, opinions and agendas. And I take
>grave exception to anyone who believes that their Truth is more true than
>mine.
>
>Anyway I think it's a shame that the Zeitgeist guys thought it best to lead
>with their section about Christianity. It seems to have almost guaranteed
>that many Christians would stop watching and never see the second and third
>parts, which are the ones that most got me wondering about what really happened
>and what's really going on.
>
>Gantt
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:47a3fe46$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> I don't know what you believe, but the devil will deceive you.
>>>
>>>
>>Don, read the bible. I would recommend an easy to read version based on
>>the King James Bible. This way, you can come to your own conclusions, besides,
>>it's the number one selling book in the world. I would think it would be
>>logical to read the number one selling book in the world to see for yourself
>>what all the buzz is about. If you read it, you will find something in
>there
>>for you.
>>
>>
>>James
>>>I don't know what you believe either but I hope you're not serious
>>>
>>>
>>
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: TOTALLY off topic! [message #95450 is a reply to message #95435] |
Sun, 03 February 2008 08:53 |
|
|
Aargh! I tried interleaving responses but it gets too complicated after awhile.
Anyway, I find it confusing that your faith makes the New Testament the
Word of God but the Torah is only the words of men, in spite of the faith
of millions of Jews throughout history. I get faith. I know of Jews who
survived the concentration camps and kept their faith. I do not get faith
that precludes the possibility of others having equally valid spiritual paths
that will ultimately lead them back to the same place - God. I know orthodox
Jews who feel that way too. Sorry - I pass. I don't believe in satan or
hell. I believe in Karma. I believe in right and wrong. And I believe
we all go back to God. There is no place else to go. And I resent the fact
that many Christians find it necessary to try to convince people like me
that we are wrong and they are right. Why can't we all be right? Is this
"One Truth" dogma written into the New Testament or is it an interpretation?
Gantt
Gantt Kushner
Gizmo Recording Company
Silver Spring, MD
www.gizmorecording.com
|
|
|
|
| Re: TOTALLY off topic! [message #95451 is a reply to message #95450] |
Sun, 03 February 2008 09:17 |
|
|
I'm sorry. I'm starting to sound like a fanatic too. I'll try to stop.
So - who do you guys like for the Superbowl?
gantt
"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>Aargh! I tried interleaving responses but it gets too complicated after
awhile.
>
>Anyway, I find it confusing that your faith makes the New Testament the
>Word of God but the Torah is only the words of men, in spite of the faith
>of millions of Jews throughout history. I get faith. I know of Jews who
>survived the concentration camps and kept their faith. I do not get faith
>that precludes the possibility of others having equally valid spiritual
paths
>that will ultimately lead them back to the same place - God. I know orthodox
>Jews who feel that way too. Sorry - I pass. I don't believe in satan or
>hell. I believe in Karma. I believe in right and wrong. And I believe
>we all go back to God. There is no place else to go. And I resent the
fact
>that many Christians find it necessary to try to convince people like me
>that we are wrong and they are right. Why can't we all be right? Is this
>"One Truth" dogma written into the New Testament or is it an interpretation?
>
>
>Gantt
Gantt Kushner
Gizmo Recording Company
Silver Spring, MD
www.gizmorecording.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: TOTALLY off topic! [message #95453 is a reply to message #95343] |
Sun, 03 February 2008 10:42 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Part I = Comparative Religion 110. Yes, most religions nick something from
other, usually local and popular religions. The 'big three' these days come
from roughly the same place, so will show some similarities. Keep in mind
there are 850 million Hindus in the world and a billion plus Chinese who
have no interest in virgin birth or third day resurrction.
Part II = Pretty unconvincing. I'll believe conspiracy explanations that
make sense, but I don't see the CIA or some other rogue element in the US
government creating 9/11, mostly because they have shown insufficient operational
art to manage much simpler operations overseas. For me much more interetsting
is the publicly available and widely ignored evidence of the US involvement
in Pakistan and the jihadis against the Soviets, which led _directly_ to
what we now call al-Queda. The CIA calls it 'blowback,' and that's all it
was.
http://www.counterpunch.org/physic11282006.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/thermo11282006.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/darkfire11282006.html
Part III = Yes, Woodrow Wilson was a bastard, but someone has to print the
money and why back it with gold? Let's back our money with wheat, we have
a hell of a lot more of it than we do gold. 'This bill can be converted into
one tenth of a bushel of wheat.' Wait, that's what we are doing, we're backing
our money with the robustness of our economy, be that wheat, cars, software,
movies, or something else. There are serious problems in the economy and
credit markets right now, and Wall Street is one (but far from the only)
party culpable, but I don't see how the gold standard would fix any of this.
Yes, FDR wanted us in WW II, and we know now that he provoked Japanese as
much as possible. This is old news. Vietnam was a war we lost, because the
other side was smarter, more careful, and more savvy. That is, the won and
we lost. Then it all just gets weird.
I'm still looking for good advice about portable mics and recorders.
TCB
P.S. Took a lit crit seminar with a Rockefeller at Yale. Not the sharpest
knife in the drawer, just sayin.
P.P.S. I really would like good advice for good remote recording gear.
"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>My wife and I just finished watching the Zeitgeist Movie (http://zeitgeistmovie.com/).
>
>I'm still digesting it. I've already seen a lot online that refutes and
>argues with it's points. What do you folks think?
>
>Gantt
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: TOTALLY off topic! [message #95459 is a reply to message #95453] |
Sun, 03 February 2008 11:17 |
|
|
Sorry - I missed your first post. How many tracks do you need? I've read
some good reviews about these guys:
http://aes.harmony-central.com/121AES/Content/Korg/PR/MR-1-M R-1000.html
Gantt
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>I'm still looking for good advice about portable mics and recorders.
>
>TCB
>
>P.S. Took a lit crit seminar with a Rockefeller at Yale. Not the sharpest
>knife in the drawer, just sayin.
>
>P.P.S. I really would like good advice for good remote recording gear.
>
>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>My wife and I just finished watching the Zeitgeist Movie (http://zeitgeistmovie.com/).
>>
>>I'm still digesting it. I've already seen a lot online that refutes and
>>argues with it's points. What do you folks think?
>>
>>Gantt
>
Gantt Kushner
Gizmo Recording Company
Silver Spring, MD
www.gizmorecording.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: TOTALLY off topic! [message #95470 is a reply to message #95466] |
Sun, 03 February 2008 14:40 |
|
|
Once heard a writer named Annie Lamott say "God loves me exactly the way I
am and She loves me too much to let me stay this way"...
Gantt
"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>There's always the old "If God made us, and God is perfect, surely he meant
>it to be like this". Apparently He could come and fix it all if He wanted.
>
>Then again sometimes I think we live on the virtual Earth... a filtration
>and training ground for lost souls. ;o)
>
>Oh, so many questions, so little time. ;o)
>
>Cheers,
>Kim.
Gantt Kushner
Gizmo Recording Company
Silver Spring, MD
www.gizmorecording.com
|
|
|
|
| Re: TOTALLY off topic! [message #95482 is a reply to message #95450] |
Sun, 03 February 2008 17:06 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>Aargh! I tried interleaving responses but it gets too complicated after
awhile.
>
>Anyway, I find it confusing that your faith makes the New Testament the
>Word of God but the Torah is only the words of men, in spite of the faith
>of millions of Jews throughout history.
Whoa! Never did that. I believe in thought inspiration and
the words of men, in both the Torah and the NT.
>I get faith. I know of Jews who
>survived the concentration camps and kept their faith. I do not get faith
>that precludes the possibility of others having equally valid spiritual
paths
>that will ultimately lead them back to the same place - God.
Can I agree that there are many paths, but they are not all
equally valid? At least in the sense that some reflect reality
more than others?
I think the faithful Hindu child goes to heaven, while think the
adult Hindu who encounters Jesus and rejects him perhaps does not.
>I know orthodox
>Jews who feel that way too. Sorry - I pass. I don't believe in satan or
>hell.
I have seen Satan at work. I can't deny it.
>I believe in Karma. I believe in right and wrong. And I believe
>we all go back to God. There is no place else to go. And I resent the
fact
>that many Christians find it necessary to try to convince people like me
>that we are wrong and they are right. Why can't we all be right?
What concerns me is the resentment. If you feel you are right,
I will take a look, but if I believe myself to be right about this,
at least on some fundamental level, while perhaps missing some
details, you are angry?
Wow. David Horowitz said: "Look eve Christians get to have
a religion".
Works for me.
>Is this
>"One Truth" dogma written into the New Testament or is it an interpretation?
From John 14:
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man
cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should
have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and
have seen him.
I interpret this to mean that God's spirit is at work in all people,
but that spirit, if followed leads to the cross.
I neither condemn others to hell, nor accept that all are equally
valid.
DC
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: TOTALLY off topic! [message #95486 is a reply to message #95485] |
Sun, 03 February 2008 17:53 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Well sure, but that does call into question whether he designed my soul,
>or just my physical being. If he designed my actual soul then he did, in
>fact, design the way in which I make decisions. If he designed how I make
>decisions then once again "free choice" is questionable.
But we all have fallen souls. If you are going to discuss
Christianity, you must at least represent our views and not
assign us views we do not hold.
God gave man free choice, at least to the extent that we
could choose not to follow him. Like a marriage, that is
the only meaningful love.
If your wife becomes a heroin addict, what would you do to save
her?
Have you seen the movie "What Dreams May Come?
(You would LOVE it. Go rent it)
For God so loved the world, he sent his only begotten Son..
He paid the price to give us the option of redemption. You do
see the need for this don't you?
>>You are tilting at a Christianity of your own construction.
>I'd suggest that I have my own beliefs of what does and does not make sense
>and I am tested Christianity against them.
It is not Christianity. It is a straw man.
DC
ps let's stay on general. We have been nice to each other, and
will continue in that vein, but let's give the audio folks a
break
take care
|
|
|
|
| Re: TOTALLY off topic! [message #95508 is a reply to message #95431] |
Mon, 04 February 2008 13:02 |
Bill L
Messages: 766
Registered: August 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I don't have anything much to say about the movie or this discussion,
except to make a small correction or clarification: the Budha referred
to in the movie is not Gautama Buddha, but The Hindu god of Mercury.
Gautama Buddha (the Buddha we usually think of in the west) was very
clear in saying he was not a son of god, nor a god at all, but he was a
man who had achieved a spiritual peace and enlightenment for himself and
he was trying to help other men and women to achieve their own
betterment and peace. Neither was he born to a virgin on Dec 25 nor any
of the other claimed similarities in the movie.
In reality he was historically the most influential spiritual leader of
recorded history, having had his teachings used by a much larger
population for a much longer time period than any other, with the effect
of a great dissemination of more peaceful civilization. Also, he did not
as was mentioned in this NG, offer hope of a heaven or other place, but
of an improved existence on Earth in the next reincarnated life. Also he
did not say we have souls, but that we ARE souls or spiritual beings
(seemingly a small point but clearly significant in practice or
application).
Buddha was quite a dude.
Gantt Kushner wrote:
> So, how did humans get "saved" before Jesus? We've been around for 40 or
> 50 or even 60 thousand years now and we have a fair amount of documentable
> history from the last 10 or 15 thousand. Who "saved" Lord Krishna? Who
> saved the Buddha? Did they and all their followers go to Hell because Jesus
> hadn't been born yet? I'm asking a serious question here - one that I don't
> think your bible can answer. I once asked a born again Christian friend
> what would happen to a Buddhist who had led a perfect Buddhist life - one
> of kindness and service to his (or her) fellow man, a life without fault
> - who had never been exposed to the Word of God as taught by Jesus the Christ?
> Would he go to Heaven or Hell? My friend replied that in order to enter
> the Kingdom of Heaven he would have to accept Jesus as his Lord and Saviour.
> I don't buy that. God has existed forever. Jesus existed 2000 years ago.
> God has never changed. Only our perceptions have changed. I maintain that
> the Perfect Buddhist would have gone where we all go - back to God. Call
> it Heaven if you like. We all go back there. There is no other place to
> go.
>
> I've never read the New Testament. Maybe someday I will. I have, however
> read much of the Torah, which is what we Jews call the Old Testament. I
> don't much agree with the parts that discuss who and how we can own other
> people as slaves or how much I can sell my daughter for or why I should stone
> someone to death who does work on the Sabbath. The Torah is allegedly the
> Word Of God too, isn't it? Jesus was a Jew. What do you suppose he believed?
> I've read a bit about the history of the Old Testament. It's interesting
> to see how and when the stories were organized into the form we now know
> it. It's also interesting to read the theories about who wrote the stories
> and what their social/political reasons might have been. Why would the writing
> of the New Testament be significantly different? And why should I accept
> any of these writings as the literal, pure and true Word Of God? You can
> argue faith and I accept that. Can you accept that my faith in God doesn't
> need a saviour named Jesus? And that I can accept the fact of Jesus' existance
> and the importance of his teachings without needing to believe that he was
> the son of God?
>
> Man! My apologies to everyone here! I started this thread to discuss 9-11
> conspiracy theories and international banker cabals! Honest! I'm even willing
> to throw a few Alien Invasion theories into the mix!
>
> Peace,
>
> Gantt
>
> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Faith is like trust, it's not always 100%, but you either have it or you
> don't.
>>
>> It's easy to put things together and come to the wrong conclusion, especially
>> if that's somebody's intention. They talk about light and darkness. They
>> talk about the mother of Jesus name starting with an M. You can't explain
>> Christianity with astrology. You could say that women's names back in those
>> days started with an M because M names are a derivative of the name Mother.
>> You could say that the name Daughter is from the word Dawn which means
> new
>> beginning and there for... bla bla bla. You can twist things around and
>> say this means this, and this means that, because bla bla bla. I suggest
>> you guys do a little research on all of these claims that all of religious
>> figures, all had mothers that were virgins and their name started with the
>> letter M, instead of taking their word for it. I suggest that those that
>> don't believe, read the bible for themselves a few times and decide for
> themselves.
>> I'm not vary good at this but I will try to explain the concept of light
>> and darkness. Darkness denies the truth. In total darkness there is no
>> truth. The light is the truth. If you were blind folded and taken in to
>> a room that was void of light, you would not know the truth. If you were
>> sitting at a table, you would not be able to tell me what is on the table,
>> or how big the room is. You would not know if the room was full of king
>> cobras or not. With light, you can see the truth. Being in darkness is
>> void of the truth. Being in darkness is ignorance of the truth. The truth
>> is the light. To deny the truth is to be in darkness. When people deny
>> the truth, it's because they are in darkness and can't see the truth. Many
>> want to keep you in the dark. many will twist the truth to deceive you
> and
>> keep you in the dark.
>>
>> God is the truth and the light. It's easy for people to knock something
>> they don't really know about, especially if they've only heard half the
> story.
>> You don't have to take my word for it, go seek the truth and read the bible
>> for your self and you decide.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The answer to your last question is in the Bible,
>>> Now I don't know or care about this film...
>>>
>>> ...but isn't the above kinda like stating that "You can find out whether
>>> GWB has been a good president by reading his press release"?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Kim.
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: TOTALLY off topic! [message #95525 is a reply to message #95508] |
Mon, 04 February 2008 21:00 |
|
|
Hey Bill,
This topic got pretty active on the "General" group.
Gantt
Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>I don't have anything much to say about the movie or this discussion,
>except to make a small correction or clarification: the Budha referred
>to in the movie is not Gautama Buddha, but The Hindu god of Mercury.
>
>Gautama Buddha (the Buddha we usually think of in the west) was very
>clear in saying he was not a son of god, nor a god at all, but he was a
>man who had achieved a spiritual peace and enlightenment for himself and
>he was trying to help other men and women to achieve their own
>betterment and peace. Neither was he born to a virgin on Dec 25 nor any
>of the other claimed similarities in the movie.
>
>In reality he was historically the most influential spiritual leader of
>recorded history, having had his teachings used by a much larger
>population for a much longer time period than any other, with the effect
>of a great dissemination of more peaceful civilization. Also, he did not
>as was mentioned in this NG, offer hope of a heaven or other place, but
>of an improved existence on Earth in the next reincarnated life. Also he
>did not say we have souls, but that we ARE souls or spiritual beings
>(seemingly a small point but clearly significant in practice or
>application).
>
>Buddha was quite a dude.
>
>Gantt Kushner wrote:
>> So, how did humans get "saved" before Jesus? We've been around for 40
or
>> 50 or even 60 thousand years now and we have a fair amount of documentable
>> history from the last 10 or 15 thousand. Who "saved" Lord Krishna? Who
>> saved the Buddha? Did they and all their followers go to Hell because
Jesus
>> hadn't been born yet? I'm asking a serious question here - one that I
don't
>> think your bible can answer. I once asked a born again Christian friend
>> what would happen to a Buddhist who had led a perfect Buddhist life -
one
>> of kindness and service to his (or her) fellow man, a life without fault
>> - who had never been exposed to the Word of God as taught by Jesus the
Christ?
>> Would he go to Heaven or Hell? My friend replied that in order to enter
>> the Kingdom of Heaven he would have to accept Jesus as his Lord and Saviour.
>> I don't buy that. God has existed forever. Jesus existed 2000 years
ago.
>> God has never changed. Only our perceptions have changed. I maintain
that
>> the Perfect Buddhist would have gone where we all go - back to God. Call
>> it Heaven if you like. We all go back there. There is no other place
to
>> go.
>>
>> I've never read the New Testament. Maybe someday I will. I have, however
>> read much of the Torah, which is what we Jews call the Old Testament.
I
>> don't much agree with the parts that discuss who and how we can own other
>> people as slaves or how much I can sell my daughter for or why I should
stone
>> someone to death who does work on the Sabbath. The Torah is allegedly
the
>> Word Of God too, isn't it? Jesus was a Jew. What do you suppose he believed?
>> I've read a bit about the history of the Old Testament. It's interesting
>> to see how and when the stories were organized into the form we now know
>> it. It's also interesting to read the theories about who wrote the stories
>> and what their social/political reasons might have been. Why would the
writing
>> of the New Testament be significantly different? And why should I accept
>> any of these writings as the literal, pure and true Word Of God? You
can
>> argue faith and I accept that. Can you accept that my faith in God doesn't
>> need a saviour named Jesus? And that I can accept the fact of Jesus'
existance
>> and the importance of his teachings without needing to believe that he
was
>> the son of God?
>>
>> Man! My apologies to everyone here! I started this thread to discuss
9-11
>> conspiracy theories and international banker cabals! Honest! I'm even
willing
>> to throw a few Alien Invasion theories into the mix!
>>
>> Peace,
>>
>> Gantt
>>
>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Faith is like trust, it's not always 100%, but you either have it or
you
>> don't.
>>>
>>> It's easy to put things together and come to the wrong conclusion, especially
>>> if that's somebody's intention. They talk about light and darkness.
They
>>> talk about the mother of Jesus name starting with an M. You can't explain
>>> Christianity with astrology. You could say that women's names back in
those
>>> days started with an M because M names are a derivative of the name Mother.
>>> You could say that the name Daughter is from the word Dawn which means
>> new
>>> beginning and there for... bla bla bla. You can twist things around
and
>>> say this means this, and this means that, because bla bla bla. I suggest
>>> you guys do a little research on all of these claims that all of religious
>>> figures, all had mothers that were virgins and their name started with
the
>>> letter M, instead of taking their word for it. I suggest that those
that
>>> don't believe, read the bible for themselves a few times and decide for
>> themselves.
>>> I'm not vary good at this but I will try to explain the concept of light
>>> and darkness. Darkness denies the truth. In total darkness there is
no
>>> truth. The light is the truth. If you were blind folded and taken in
to
>>> a room that was void of light, you would not know the truth. If you
were
>>> sitting at a table, you would not be able to tell me what is on the table,
>>> or how big the room is. You would not know if the room was full of king
>>> cobras or not. With light, you can see the truth. Being in darkness
is
>>> void of the truth. Being in darkness is ignorance of the truth. The
truth
>>> is the light. To deny the truth is to be in darkness. When people deny
>>> the truth, it's because they are in darkness and can't see the truth.
Many
>>> want to keep you in the dark. many will twist the truth to deceive you
>> and
>>> keep you in the dark.
>>>
>>> God is the truth and the light. It's easy for people to knock something
>>> they don't really know about, especially if they've only heard half the
>> story.
>>> You don't have to take my word for it, go seek the truth and read the
bible
>>> for your self and you decide.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The answer to your last question is in the Bible,
>>>> Now I don't know or care about this film...
>>>>
>>>> ...but isn't the above kinda like stating that "You can find out whether
>>>> GWB has been a good president by reading his press release"?
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Kim.
>>
Gantt Kushner
Gizmo Recording Company
Silver Spring, MD
www.gizmorecording.com
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Mon Dec 23 10:54:55 PST 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.02331 seconds
|
The PARIS Forums
Search
Help
Members
Register
Login
Home
