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Patching question / help [message #100032] Sat, 16 August 2008 11:02 Go to next message
Ron Bloom is currently offline  Ron Bloom
Messages: 12
Registered: July 2008
Junior Member
OK so my head hurts as I am been trying to figure this out. I am sure I am
missing something simple.

Details:

Newly running 3.0 on 98 machine
1 MEC
2 EDS cards
1 8 out card
1 8 in card

Trying to patch to second EDS card mixer:

Mec master A to mixer A (8 ins to mixer A 16 ins) working fine.

No option for second EDS card in object list window. Tried going to mixer
B from Mec master A and get this error “Could not make connection. You cannot
patch objects across EDS-1000 card boundaries.”

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks in advance
Re: Patching question / help [message #100033 is a reply to message #100032] Sat, 16 August 2008 11:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tom Bruhl is currently offline  Tom Bruhl   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1368
Registered: June 2007
Senior Member
Hi Ron,

Ya that's right. You can't patch across submixes.
You can make hardware connections if you have two
Mecs or a 442.

What are you trying to do? If it's just record onto the
second submix then you should switch the cards in the Global Master.
Switch card A to Submix B. That'll assign all your hardware to
Submix B. I'm not sure how you'll hear your master audio though???
I've always had multiple Mecs and left one as the Master A and swapped
the second one around to different submixes this way.

If there's another reason for your patching question please post it.

Good luck,
Tom




"Ron" <concerts4u@prodigy.net> wrote in message news:48a71644$1@linux...
>
> OK so my head hurts as I am been trying to figure this out. I am sure I am
> missing something simple.
>
> Details:
>
> Newly running 3.0 on 98 machine
> 1 MEC
> 2 EDS cards
> 1 8 out card
> 1 8 in card
>
> Trying to patch to second EDS card mixer:
>
> Mec master A to mixer A (8 ins to mixer A 16 ins) working fine.
>
> No option for second EDS card in object list window. Tried going to mixer
> B from Mec master A and get this error "Could not make connection. You
> cannot
> patch objects across EDS-1000 card boundaries."
>
> What am I doing wrong?
>
> Thanks in advance
Re: Patching question / help [message #100035 is a reply to message #100033] Sat, 16 August 2008 12:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ron Bloom is currently offline  Ron Bloom
Messages: 12
Registered: July 2008
Junior Member
Tom,

I have an extra MEC would it be a good idea to use it or just stay the way
I am with one. What are the advantages?

Back to the other question. I see it in the Globle Master - what should I
set sub mix 1 to Virtual, or Native?

Thanks man!

"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>Hi Ron,
>
>Ya that's right. You can't patch across submixes.
>You can make hardware connections if you have two
>Mecs or a 442.
>
>What are you trying to do? If it's just record onto the
>second submix then you should switch the cards in the Global Master.
>Switch card A to Submix B. That'll assign all your hardware to
>Submix B. I'm not sure how you'll hear your master audio though???
>I've always had multiple Mecs and left one as the Master A and swapped
>the second one around to different submixes this way.
>
>If there's another reason for your patching question please post it.
>
>Good luck,
>Tom
>
>
>
>
>"Ron" <concerts4u@prodigy.net> wrote in message news:48a71644$1@linux...
>>
>> OK so my head hurts as I am been trying to figure this out. I am sure
I am
>> missing something simple.
>>
>> Details:
>>
>> Newly running 3.0 on 98 machine
>> 1 MEC
>> 2 EDS cards
>> 1 8 out card
>> 1 8 in card
>>
>> Trying to patch to second EDS card mixer:
>>
>> Mec master A to mixer A (8 ins to mixer A 16 ins) working fine.
>>
>> No option for second EDS card in object list window. Tried going to mixer
>> B from Mec master A and get this error "Could not make connection. You

>> cannot
>> patch objects across EDS-1000 card boundaries."
>>
>> What am I doing wrong?
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>
>
Re: Patching question / help [message #100037 is a reply to message #100035] Sat, 16 August 2008 12:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tom Bruhl is currently offline  Tom Bruhl   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1368
Registered: June 2007
Senior Member
Ron,

To answer your question:
I usually have to switch it to virtual first and then assign the cards (Mecs
attached to them) as I want them. In your case with only one mec you
may have to drag tracks around to hear what is on submix A through Submix B
or vice versa. You need hardware attached to Card and Submix A to hear
your 2 bus mix.

In rethinking this I would leave your card assignments as they are. Drag the
tracks
from A to card B and continue recording to Submix card A. If you had two
Mecs
then you wouldn't have to do that. Make sure they're all time locked before
dragging.
All audio from both A & B will be heard and mixed together this way.

Tom





"Ron" <concerts4u@prodigy.net> wrote in message news:48a7296f$1@linux...
>
> Tom,
>
> I have an extra MEC would it be a good idea to use it or just stay the way
> I am with one. What are the advantages?
>
> Back to the other question. I see it in the Globle Master - what should I
> set sub mix 1 to Virtual, or Native?
>
> Thanks man!
>
> "Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>>Hi Ron,
>>
>>Ya that's right. You can't patch across submixes.
>>You can make hardware connections if you have two
>>Mecs or a 442.
>>
>>What are you trying to do? If it's just record onto the
>>second submix then you should switch the cards in the Global Master.
>>Switch card A to Submix B. That'll assign all your hardware to
>>Submix B. I'm not sure how you'll hear your master audio though???
>>I've always had multiple Mecs and left one as the Master A and swapped
>>the second one around to different submixes this way.
>>
>>If there's another reason for your patching question please post it.
>>
>>Good luck,
>>Tom
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"Ron" <concerts4u@prodigy.net> wrote in message news:48a71644$1@linux...
>>>
>>> OK so my head hurts as I am been trying to figure this out. I am sure
> I am
>>> missing something simple.
>>>
>>> Details:
>>>
>>> Newly running 3.0 on 98 machine
>>> 1 MEC
>>> 2 EDS cards
>>> 1 8 out card
>>> 1 8 in card
>>>
>>> Trying to patch to second EDS card mixer:
>>>
>>> Mec master A to mixer A (8 ins to mixer A 16 ins) working fine.
>>>
>>> No option for second EDS card in object list window. Tried going to
>>> mixer
>>> B from Mec master A and get this error "Could not make connection. You
>
>>> cannot
>>> patch objects across EDS-1000 card boundaries."
>>>
>>> What am I doing wrong?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance
>>
>>
>
Re: Patching question / help [message #100038 is a reply to message #100037] Sat, 16 August 2008 12:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ron Bloom is currently offline  Ron Bloom
Messages: 12
Registered: July 2008
Junior Member
Tom - You Rock !! Been stumped for days. Today is a good day

So now I am very curious about using two MECS. Lets say I hook up the second
one. Do I tie the 2nd EDS card to the 2nd MEC using the EDS cable? DO I
keep the EDS cards connected to each other the same way they are now 10 pin
and 16 pin cables attached? How will my patch bay settings change? Is there
a tutorial or ref on setting them up?

Sorry for so many questions, but I am getting excited about this :-)
ron

"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>Ron,
>
>To answer your question:
>I usually have to switch it to virtual first and then assign the cards (Mecs
>attached to them) as I want them. In your case with only one mec you
>may have to drag tracks around to hear what is on submix A through Submix
B
>or vice versa. You need hardware attached to Card and Submix A to hear
>your 2 bus mix.
>
>In rethinking this I would leave your card assignments as they are. Drag
the
>tracks
>from A to card B and continue recording to Submix card A. If you had two

>Mecs
>then you wouldn't have to do that. Make sure they're all time locked before

>dragging.
>All audio from both A & B will be heard and mixed together this way.
>
>Tom
>
>
>
>
>
>"Ron" <concerts4u@prodigy.net> wrote in message news:48a7296f$1@linux...
>>
>> Tom,
>>
>> I have an extra MEC would it be a good idea to use it or just stay the
way
>> I am with one. What are the advantages?
>>
>> Back to the other question. I see it in the Globle Master - what should
I
>> set sub mix 1 to Virtual, or Native?
>>
>> Thanks man!
>>
>> "Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>Hi Ron,
>>>
>>>Ya that's right. You can't patch across submixes.
>>>You can make hardware connections if you have two
>>>Mecs or a 442.
>>>
>>>What are you trying to do? If it's just record onto the
>>>second submix then you should switch the cards in the Global Master.
>>>Switch card A to Submix B. That'll assign all your hardware to
>>>Submix B. I'm not sure how you'll hear your master audio though???
>>>I've always had multiple Mecs and left one as the Master A and swapped
>>>the second one around to different submixes this way.
>>>
>>>If there's another reason for your patching question please post it.
>>>
>>>Good luck,
>>>Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Ron" <concerts4u@prodigy.net> wrote in message news:48a71644$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> OK so my head hurts as I am been trying to figure this out. I am sure
>> I am
>>>> missing something simple.
>>>>
>>>> Details:
>>>>
>>>> Newly running 3.0 on 98 machine
>>>> 1 MEC
>>>> 2 EDS cards
>>>> 1 8 out card
>>>> 1 8 in card
>>>>
>>>> Trying to patch to second EDS card mixer:
>>>>
>>>> Mec master A to mixer A (8 ins to mixer A 16 ins) working fine.
>>>>
>>>> No option for second EDS card in object list window. Tried going to

>>>> mixer
>>>> B from Mec master A and get this error "Could not make connection. You
>>
>>>> cannot
>>>> patch objects across EDS-1000 card boundaries."
>>>>
>>>> What am I doing wrong?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
Re: Patching question / help [message #100040 is a reply to message #100038] Sat, 16 August 2008 13:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tom Bruhl is currently offline  Tom Bruhl   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1368
Registered: June 2007
Senior Member
Ron,

You are correct with all your connections.
You will need a word clock cable to attach from mec A
word clock out to Mec B word clock in . Your existing patchbays
will still work but you may add a few things with the new hardware.

You will have the 20 bit master section of your second mec to add
connections in your Paris patchbay after mec B shows up. You can
always add cards to that one too for 24 bit recording/inserts. The spdif
is always there for 24 bit data too.

I'm glad you're pumped! Make sure power is off and your eds cables are
in working order. I smoked three mecs with a bad cable.

Tom



"Ron" <concerts4u@prodigy.net> wrote in message news:48a73165$1@linux...
>
> Tom - You Rock !! Been stumped for days. Today is a good day
>
> So now I am very curious about using two MECS. Lets say I hook up the
> second
> one. Do I tie the 2nd EDS card to the 2nd MEC using the EDS cable? DO I
> keep the EDS cards connected to each other the same way they are now 10
> pin
> and 16 pin cables attached? How will my patch bay settings change? Is
> there
> a tutorial or ref on setting them up?
>
> Sorry for so many questions, but I am getting excited about this :-)
> ron
>
> "Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>>Ron,
>>
>>To answer your question:
>>I usually have to switch it to virtual first and then assign the cards
>>(Mecs
>>attached to them) as I want them. In your case with only one mec you
>>may have to drag tracks around to hear what is on submix A through Submix
> B
>>or vice versa. You need hardware attached to Card and Submix A to hear
>>your 2 bus mix.
>>
>>In rethinking this I would leave your card assignments as they are. Drag
> the
>>tracks
>>from A to card B and continue recording to Submix card A. If you had two
>
>>Mecs
>>then you wouldn't have to do that. Make sure they're all time locked
>>before
>
>>dragging.
>>All audio from both A & B will be heard and mixed together this way.
>>
>>Tom
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"Ron" <concerts4u@prodigy.net> wrote in message news:48a7296f$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Tom,
>>>
>>> I have an extra MEC would it be a good idea to use it or just stay the
> way
>>> I am with one. What are the advantages?
>>>
>>> Back to the other question. I see it in the Globle Master - what should
> I
>>> set sub mix 1 to Virtual, or Native?
>>>
>>> Thanks man!
>>>
>>> "Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>Hi Ron,
>>>>
>>>>Ya that's right. You can't patch across submixes.
>>>>You can make hardware connections if you have two
>>>>Mecs or a 442.
>>>>
>>>>What are you trying to do? If it's just record onto the
>>>>second submix then you should switch the cards in the Global Master.
>>>>Switch card A to Submix B. That'll assign all your hardware to
>>>>Submix B. I'm not sure how you'll hear your master audio though???
>>>>I've always had multiple Mecs and left one as the Master A and swapped
>>>>the second one around to different submixes this way.
>>>>
>>>>If there's another reason for your patching question please post it.
>>>>
>>>>Good luck,
>>>>Tom
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Ron" <concerts4u@prodigy.net> wrote in message news:48a71644$1@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>> OK so my head hurts as I am been trying to figure this out. I am sure
>>> I am
>>>>> missing something simple.
>>>>>
>>>>> Details:
>>>>>
>>>>> Newly running 3.0 on 98 machine
>>>>> 1 MEC
>>>>> 2 EDS cards
>>>>> 1 8 out card
>>>>> 1 8 in card
>>>>>
>>>>> Trying to patch to second EDS card mixer:
>>>>>
>>>>> Mec master A to mixer A (8 ins to mixer A 16 ins) working fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> No option for second EDS card in object list window. Tried going to
>
>>>>> mixer
>>>>> B from Mec master A and get this error "Could not make connection. You
>>>
>>>>> cannot
>>>>> patch objects across EDS-1000 card boundaries."
>>>>>
>>>>> What am I doing wrong?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
Re: Patching question / help [message #100045 is a reply to message #100040] Sat, 16 August 2008 17:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ron is currently offline  Ron
Messages: 2
Registered: July 2008
Junior Member
Tom,

Sounds like a plan I will connect 2nd MEC tonight to the second EDS card
and be prepared to rock. Why type of cable is a "word clock cable" Kind of
looks like an osciliscope connector. WHere do you find one of these?
ron

"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>Ron,
>
>You are correct with all your connections.
>You will need a word clock cable to attach from mec A
>word clock out to Mec B word clock in . Your existing patchbays
>will still work but you may add a few things with the new hardware.
>
>You will have the 20 bit master section of your second mec to add
>connections in your Paris patchbay after mec B shows up. You can
>always add cards to that one too for 24 bit recording/inserts. The spdif
>is always there for 24 bit data too.
>
>I'm glad you're pumped! Make sure power is off and your eds cables are
>in working order. I smoked three mecs with a bad cable.
>
>Tom
>
>
>
>"Ron" <concerts4u@prodigy.net> wrote in message news:48a73165$1@linux...
>>
>> Tom - You Rock !! Been stumped for days. Today is a good day
>>
>> So now I am very curious about using two MECS. Lets say I hook up the

>> second
>> one. Do I tie the 2nd EDS card to the 2nd MEC using the EDS cable? DO
I
>> keep the EDS cards connected to each other the same way they are now 10

>> pin
>> and 16 pin cables attached? How will my patch bay settings change? Is

>> there
>> a tutorial or ref on setting them up?
>>
>> Sorry for so many questions, but I am getting excited about this :-)
>> ron
>>
>> "Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>Ron,
>>>
>>>To answer your question:
>>>I usually have to switch it to virtual first and then assign the cards

>>>(Mecs
>>>attached to them) as I want them. In your case with only one mec you
>>>may have to drag tracks around to hear what is on submix A through Submix
>> B
>>>or vice versa. You need hardware attached to Card and Submix A to hear
>>>your 2 bus mix.
>>>
>>>In rethinking this I would leave your card assignments as they are. Drag
>> the
>>>tracks
>>>from A to card B and continue recording to Submix card A. If you had
two
>>
>>>Mecs
>>>then you wouldn't have to do that. Make sure they're all time locked

>>>before
>>
>>>dragging.
>>>All audio from both A & B will be heard and mixed together this way.
>>>
>>>Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Ron" <concerts4u@prodigy.net> wrote in message news:48a7296f$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> Tom,
>>>>
>>>> I have an extra MEC would it be a good idea to use it or just stay the
>> way
>>>> I am with one. What are the advantages?
>>>>
>>>> Back to the other question. I see it in the Globle Master - what should
>> I
>>>> set sub mix 1 to Virtual, or Native?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks man!
>>>>
>>>> "Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>Hi Ron,
>>>>>
>>>>>Ya that's right. You can't patch across submixes.
>>>>>You can make hardware connections if you have two
>>>>>Mecs or a 442.
>>>>>
>>>>>What are you trying to do? If it's just record onto the
>>>>>second submix then you should switch the cards in the Global Master.
>>>>>Switch card A to Submix B. That'll assign all your hardware to
>>>>>Submix B. I'm not sure how you'll hear your master audio though???
>>>>>I've always had multiple Mecs and left one as the Master A and swapped
>>>>>the second one around to different submixes this way.
>>>>>
>>>>>If there's another reason for your patching question please post it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Good luck,
>>>>>Tom
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Ron" <concerts4u@prodigy.net> wrote in message news:48a71644$1@linux...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK so my head hurts as I am been trying to figure this out. I am sure
>>>> I am
>>>>>> missing something simple.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Details:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Newly running 3.0 on 98 machine
>>>>>> 1 MEC
>>>>>> 2 EDS cards
>>>>>> 1 8 out card
>>>>>> 1 8 in card
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Trying to patch to second EDS card mixer:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mec master A to mixer A (8 ins to mixer A 16 ins) working fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No option for second EDS card in object list window. Tried going to
>>
>>>>>> mixer
>>>>>> B from Mec master A and get this error "Could not make connection.
You
>>>>
>>>>>> cannot
>>>>>> patch objects across EDS-1000 card boundaries."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What am I doing wrong?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks in advance
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
Re: Patching question / help [message #100049 is a reply to message #100045] Sun, 17 August 2008 07:57 Go to previous message
audioguy_editout_ is currently offline  audioguy_editout_   CANADA
Messages: 249
Registered: December 2005
Senior Member
Any good quality short 75 Ohm BNC to BNC cable will do nicely. Try a
local pro video supplier or a music store that sells computer
software/hardware. If you still can't find one, go to your local
electronics supply store (or the aforementioned video supplier) and get
two BNC to F-type adapters and use an RG6 TV cable between.

Like this:

http://www.trianglecables.com/200-130.html

David.

Ron wrote:
> Tom,
>
> Sounds like a plan I will connect 2nd MEC tonight to the second EDS card
> and be prepared to rock. Why type of cable is a "word clock cable" Kind of
> looks like an osciliscope connector. WHere do you find one of these?
> ron
>
> "Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Ron,
>>
>> You are correct with all your connections.
>> You will need a word clock cable to attach from mec A
>> word clock out to Mec B word clock in . Your existing patchbays
>> will still work but you may add a few things with the new hardware.
>>
>> You will have the 20 bit master section of your second mec to add
>> connections in your Paris patchbay after mec B shows up. You can
>> always add cards to that one too for 24 bit recording/inserts. The spdif
>> is always there for 24 bit data too.
>>
>> I'm glad you're pumped! Make sure power is off and your eds cables are
>> in working order. I smoked three mecs with a bad cable.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>> "Ron" <concerts4u@prodigy.net> wrote in message news:48a73165$1@linux...
>>> Tom - You Rock !! Been stumped for days. Today is a good day
>>>
>>> So now I am very curious about using two MECS. Lets say I hook up the
>
>>> second
>>> one. Do I tie the 2nd EDS card to the 2nd MEC using the EDS cable? DO
> I
>>> keep the EDS cards connected to each other the same way they are now 10
>
>>> pin
>>> and 16 pin cables attached? How will my patch bay settings change? Is
>
>>> there
>>> a tutorial or ref on setting them up?
>>>
>>> Sorry for so many questions, but I am getting excited about this :-)
>>> ron
>>>
>>> "Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> Ron,
>>>>
>>>> To answer your question:
>>>> I usually have to switch it to virtual first and then assign the cards
>
>>>> (Mecs
>>>> attached to them) as I want them. In your case with only one mec you
>>>> may have to drag tracks around to hear what is on submix A through Submix
>>> B
>>>> or vice versa. You need hardware attached to Card and Submix A to hear
>>>> your 2 bus mix.
>>>>
>>>> In rethinking this I would leave your card assignments as they are. Drag
>>> the
>>>> tracks
>>> >from A to card B and continue recording to Submix card A. If you had
> two
>>>> Mecs
>>>> then you wouldn't have to do that. Make sure they're all time locked
>
>>>> before
>>>> dragging.
>>>> All audio from both A & B will be heard and mixed together this way.
>>>>
>>>> Tom
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Ron" <concerts4u@prodigy.net> wrote in message news:48a7296f$1@linux...
>>>>> Tom,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have an extra MEC would it be a good idea to use it or just stay the
>>> way
>>>>> I am with one. What are the advantages?
>>>>>
>>>>> Back to the other question. I see it in the Globle Master - what should
>>> I
>>>>> set sub mix 1 to Virtual, or Native?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks man!
>>>>>
>>>>> "Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Ron,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ya that's right. You can't patch across submixes.
>>>>>> You can make hardware connections if you have two
>>>>>> Mecs or a 442.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What are you trying to do? If it's just record onto the
>>>>>> second submix then you should switch the cards in the Global Master.
>>>>>> Switch card A to Submix B. That'll assign all your hardware to
>>>>>> Submix B. I'm not sure how you'll hear your master audio though???
>>>>>> I've always had multiple Mecs and left one as the Master A and swapped
>>>>>> the second one around to different submixes this way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If there's another reason for your patching question please post it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good luck,
>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Ron" <concerts4u@prodigy.net> wrote in message news:48a71644$1@linux...
>>>>>>> OK so my head hurts as I am been trying to figure this out. I am sure
>>>>> I am
>>>>>>> missing something simple.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Details:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Newly running 3.0 on 98 machine
>>>>>>> 1 MEC
>>>>>>> 2 EDS cards
>>>>>>> 1 8 out card
>>>>>>> 1 8 in card
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Trying to patch to second EDS card mixer:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mec master A to mixer A (8 ins to mixer A 16 ins) working fine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No option for second EDS card in object list window. Tried going to
>>>>>>> mixer
>>>>>>> B from Mec master A and get this error "Could not make connection.
> You
>>>>>>> cannot
>>>>>>> patch objects across EDS-1000 card boundaries."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What am I doing wrong?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks in advance
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
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