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Dual DAW users and the RME 9652 [message #105401] Wed, 07 July 2010 10:47 Go to next message
thesandbox1 is currently offline  thesandbox1   UNITED STATES
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Kerry and anyone else syncing PARIS with Reaper and a 9652 are you also using word clock out to the RME word clock in or do you just need the ADAT sync? Just bought a 9652 and finally going this route so I can get some VSTi work done in Reaper on the road. Kerry since I know you are doing this could you detail your setup as I think I am going for pretty much the exact same thing. PM me if you have time as well.

Re: Dual DAW users and the RME 9652 [message #105402 is a reply to message #105401] Wed, 07 July 2010 11:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerryg is currently offline  kerryg   CANADA
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Just ADAT sync, it carries clock info as well. I'll drop you a PM when I have a breather later.

-K


"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
Re: Dual DAW users and the RME 9652 [message #105426 is a reply to message #105402] Thu, 22 July 2010 09:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesandbox1 is currently offline  thesandbox1   UNITED STATES
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Kerry....finally got my 9 pin cable and have everything set like I think it should be but not getting reaper to start when pressing play in PARIS. How are you monitoring both Reaper and PARIS when playing back or do you always route back in to PARIS...a stereo pair??...individual tracks?? What about on mixdown? Starting to catch up with the times and not being in Nashville anymore I am starting to use VST's more...especially for drums and just trying to find the easiest work flow now.

Re: Dual DAW users and the RME 9652 [message #105427 is a reply to message #105426] Thu, 22 July 2010 12:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dnafe is currently offline  dnafe   CANADA
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Assuming you're running two different computers do you have Reaper's audio card set to ASIO positioning protocol (or some such name)...that's what works with my Dakota card

[Updated on: Thu, 22 July 2010 12:18]

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Re: Dual DAW users and the RME 9652 [message #105428 is a reply to message #105427] Thu, 22 July 2010 14:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesandbox1 is currently offline  thesandbox1   UNITED STATES
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No...on one computer and the RME Hammerfall DSP window shows ADAT sync and the time code follows PARIS fine just cant get Reaper to start. The transport play button is on sync to ASIO, is green, and says syncronizing...but that is it. Also...anyone know if ACID PRO 7.0 will sync to it as well.

[Updated on: Thu, 22 July 2010 14:57]

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Re: Dual DAW users and the RME 9652 [message #105429 is a reply to message #105428] Thu, 22 July 2010 15:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerryg is currently offline  kerryg   CANADA
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Are you on Mac or PC with the RME card? Apple seriously dropped the ball on this, ADAT sync only works on PC (or when being received by MOTU software with MOTU hardware).

"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
Re: Dual DAW users and the RME 9652 [message #105431 is a reply to message #105429] Thu, 22 July 2010 17:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesandbox1 is currently offline  thesandbox1   UNITED STATES
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PC - dual core opteron 180

Re: Dual DAW users and the RME 9652 [message #105433 is a reply to message #105431] Thu, 22 July 2010 22:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesandbox1 is currently offline  thesandbox1   UNITED STATES
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Think I got it working although not sure if it is the most accurate way...
On PARIS midi settings set PARIS midi in and out to MTC and then set sync input in Reaper to MTC PARIS midi in or all midi in instead of ASIO positioning protocol and now it starts and seems to follow PARIS. Should the ASIO be the one that I am using though or am I now doing it correctly using the MTC selection in Reaper?


Re: Dual DAW users and the RME 9652 [message #105434 is a reply to message #105433] Fri, 23 July 2010 00:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerryg is currently offline  kerryg   CANADA
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The ASIO Positioning Protocol one is the most accurate, but MTC can be surprisingly accurate too as long as you use a dedicated MIDI cable just for sync (ie don't pass a bunch of MIDI or sysex info down that cable at the same time - MIDI is a serial protocol so that could "burp" your timecode).

But the ADAT sync should just work, so there must be something wrong somewhere. Here are some screencaps of my own settings:

index.php?t=getfile&id=737&private=0

index.php?t=getfile&id=738&private=0

index.php?t=getfile&id=739&private=0





"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
Re: Dual DAW users and the RME 9652 [message #105435 is a reply to message #105434] Fri, 23 July 2010 07:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesandbox1 is currently offline  thesandbox1   UNITED STATES
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Okay...now a bit more confused. I have no midi cable hooked up??? It looks like you are using SPDIF? I have no SPDIF going into the 9652 only the ADAT sync cable. What is the 9 pin ADAT sync cable for? I already have a Big Ben Master Clock going to my 4 MEC's so for clock mode I checked Auto Sync. and the Pref. Sync to ADAT sync instead of SPIDF.

Re: Dual DAW users and the RME 9652 [message #105436 is a reply to message #105435] Fri, 23 July 2010 08:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesandbox1 is currently offline  thesandbox1   UNITED STATES
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Well the MIDI seems a bit choppy this morning. Started up PARIS again watching the DSP card setting and it is sending sync info through the ADAT cable for sure as the Auto Sync Ref and System clock change from 48kHz going through the loading and then to 44.1 to match my master clock. ADAT sync shows sync and the Time Code moves in time with PARIS. Reaper set to ASIO shows synchronizing but does not start ever. ASIO issue???

Re: Dual DAW users and the RME 9652 [message #105437 is a reply to message #105436] Fri, 23 July 2010 09:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesandbox1 is currently offline  thesandbox1   UNITED STATES
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Tried also going straight out of the Big Ben into the RME w/c in and it also shows a good sync and time code but still nothing in Reaper set to ASIO

Re: Dual DAW users and the RME 9652 [message #105438 is a reply to message #105436] Fri, 23 July 2010 09:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesandbox1 is currently offline  thesandbox1   UNITED STATES
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GOT IT.... REAPER Audio settings was not set to the Hammerfall ASIO...still showed Wave Out using the outputs of the 9652.

Okay...also did I not even need an ADAT sync cable??? Was that just passing the sync from my Big Ben? So is it better to keep using a word clock cable form the Big Ben directly into the RME card and not even use the 9 pin ADAT sync cable?


[Updated on: Fri, 23 July 2010 09:56]

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Re: Dual DAW users and the RME 9652 [message #105439 is a reply to message #105438] Fri, 23 July 2010 09:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerryg is currently offline  kerryg   CANADA
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Excellent! No, you definitely need the ADAT sync cable, nothing else transmits the stream of data needed for APP. But it should be a breeze from now on.

If you don't have AATranslator, it's pretty close to a must-have now - I haven't verified this rigorously but it seems that AATranslator's translations of exported PARIS OMFs match the placement of ADAT sync with sample accuracy, unsurprisingly since both reference from the internal sample clock rather than something as crude as frames per second. So now in addition to being able to fly stuff back and forth between Reaper and PARIS via ADAT sync, you can also either export PARIS OMFs and convert them to a host of other DAW formats or go the other way and use AATranslator to open the Reaper session to do the same. True sync bliss.

Glad you got it sorted!

- K


"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
Re: Dual DAW users and the RME 9652 [message #105440 is a reply to message #105439] Fri, 23 July 2010 10:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesandbox1 is currently offline  thesandbox1   UNITED STATES
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Yeah..I unplugged the ADAT cable leaving word clock checked and figured that one out...no worky. I did get AATranslator awhile ago and only tried it with a couple of songs and they never finished exporting. Will have to look through the list of things to watch for that you posted and try again some time.

Re: Dual DAW users and the RME 9652 [message #105441 is a reply to message #105440] Fri, 23 July 2010 12:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesandbox1 is currently offline  thesandbox1   UNITED STATES
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And now I realize after messing with the RME's mixer I need Wink a second card and then have virtually any mix and match of inputs and outputs to all MEC's...especially for headphone mixes.

Re: Dual DAW users and the RME 9652 [message #105442 is a reply to message #105441] Fri, 23 July 2010 13:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerryg is currently offline  kerryg   CANADA
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Yes, I realized that quickly during the process too - "I must have more gear, stat!" Very Happy.

Next up, a master clock. As you might see from my setup, the RME is actually in "master" clock mode supplying word clock out to feed the MECs. Simultaneously, its ADAT sync in supplies positional sync from PARIS to Reaper (the C16 controls the transport). PARIS' functionality is so cool and the buy-in so and expansion so cheap that it makes total sense once again. My latency through PARIS' ins and looped into Reaper via SP/DIF is ridiculously low (I've never noticed any) so tracking to either DAW is now a breeze.



"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon

[Updated on: Fri, 23 July 2010 13:40]

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Re: Dual DAW users and the RME 9652 [message #105443 is a reply to message #105442] Fri, 23 July 2010 13:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerryg is currently offline  kerryg   CANADA
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By the way, if you had a chance and felt like writing up the steps to pull this off while it's fresh in your memory, I'd be happy to format it into a Wiki entry for the next person along.

- K


"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
Re: Dual DAW users and the RME 9652 [message #105444 is a reply to message #105443] Fri, 23 July 2010 19:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesandbox1 is currently offline  thesandbox1   UNITED STATES
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Seemed fairly straight forward once I looked back at....will try to get something to you tomorrow.

Re: Dual DAW users and the RME 9652 [message #105445 is a reply to message #105401] Sat, 24 July 2010 09:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesandbox1 is currently offline  thesandbox1   UNITED STATES
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Okay...
Syncing Reaper to PARIS using a RME 9652.

1. Connect 9 pin male to male cable from PARIS ADAT card to RME card.

2. In Hammerfall DSP settings... Set Clock mode to Auto Sync (note I am using another Master clock so this may differ) Set Pref Sync Ref to ADAT sync. (note: you can also watch this box as PARIS loads to see the ADAT sync taking place and also while playing to watch the time code)

3. In REAPER Preferences under Audio Device make sure that Audio system is set to ASIO and the ASIO driver is set to ASIO Hammerfall DSP (this is what I did not catch at first) Enable your inputs and outputs here as well.

Second...there are a couple ways but if you right click the play button in REAPER go and check "enable sync to timecode" and set "use input" to ASIO Positioning Protocol" Check "start playback ...when stopped" if you desire or make sure the play button is green and says SYNC on it.

Double check that the BPM and time sig in REAPER match PARIS for easier editing...

Now Press Play in PARIS and Reaper should roll with it!

Kerry if I missed anything please go ahead and ask or edit as needed.

Matt
www.sandboxproductions.com


[Updated on: Sat, 24 July 2010 09:11]

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Re: Dual DAW users and the RME 9652 [message #105448 is a reply to message #105445] Sat, 24 July 2010 13:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerryg is currently offline  kerryg   CANADA
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That's great stuff, Matt, really concise. It's up on the Wiki now, I added some additional notes too.

How's it working - nice and crisp? I haven't really played with the parameters much, it seemed to lock with PARIS nicely out of the box. I have the RME streaming back into PARIS via two channels of the lightpipe so I monitor through a pair of channel strips using the Brian Tankersley "monitor regardless of monitor mode" trick - have you got that set up yet?

It's quite a mind-bending setup to get one's head around - I have the RME as the word clock master and the positional sync slave, I'm also routing the ADAT digital back into PARIS, and then I have also have my Demeter and one mic pre "normalled" in the PARIS patchbay - in through one input of PARIS and back out of the SP/DIF out - to stream that audio straight into the SP/DIF in of the RME and thus into Reaper. Sounds complicated with all those digital streams looped back and forth; works flawlessly, nary a click or pop.


"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon

[Updated on: Sat, 24 July 2010 13:51]

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Re: Dual DAW users and the RME 9652 [message #105449 is a reply to message #105448] Sat, 24 July 2010 14:00 Go to previous message
kerryg is currently offline  kerryg   CANADA
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Re: AATranslator and this:

Quote:
I did get AATranslator awhile ago and only tried it with a couple of songs and they never finished exporting. Will have to look through the list of things to watch for that you posted and try again some time.


- here, I'll save you some time. 99% likely you either have 1) a corrupted audio file in that PARIS session (just try an export from a different session) or 2) an illegal character like a slash or a period in a file name, segment name, or track name (or you have segments that you've named and PARIS has inserted the illegal "slash" character as a separator).

Quick fixes to try:

a) check the audio files in your song's Audio Bin just have either numbers or letters in their names - no characters like "." or "/". Do the same for your audio segments. Try exporting again - if that doesn't fix it,

b) go into your audio bin and right click each segment (not file) so its name turns red, and delete the segment's name (this seems to stifle PARIS' urge to stick an apparently illegal "/" in to separate the names of file and segment). Try exporting again - if it still doesn't complete,

c) suspect a corrupted audio segment - you can use the steps in the Wiki to track down and fix the corruption. Mike and I have talked about a drag-and-drop utility to fix our apparently all-too-easily corrupted PAFs, don't know whether that's made its way up the priority list yet.

The other 1% alternative is of course that you've discovered a problem we've missed, but try those first. Since I discovered those fixes and started getting vigilant about names I've not had a single failed export, and I must have done at least forty by now, some very large and complex. The newer versions of AATranslator are literally about fifty times faster than the old ones and large sessions that once took 45 minutes take under a minute, or sadly, "no longer quite long enough to make it to the coffee machine".

By the way - don't do it from the "Crop Circles" or "See It My Way" demos, do it from one of your own sessions. It's not entirely outside the realm of possibility that the demos themselves might have had problems that were pressed into the CD they came on - mine failed repeatedly and I eventually tracked it down to corrupted audio.


"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon

[Updated on: Sat, 24 July 2010 14:14]

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