Home » The Bin » Lester The Nightfly » I hate winter...
Re: I hate winter... [message #95212 is a reply to message #95208] |
Tue, 29 January 2008 10:36 |
rick
Messages: 1976 Registered: February 2006
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Senior Member |
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this is a mac vs pc thing in disguise isn't it? ;o) thank god for
global dimming...
On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:51:55 -0700, Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com>
wrote:
>James McCloskey wrote:
>> Yep, those scientist don't know what they are talking about,
>
>If you're looking for the opinion of scientists, here's a start:
>
> From the American Physical Society
>http://www.aps.org/policy/statements/07_1.cfm
>"Emissions of greenhouse gases from human activities are changing the
>atmosphere in ways that affect the Earth's climate. Greenhouse gases
>include carbon dioxide as well as methane, nitrous oxide and other
>gases. They are emitted from fossil fuel combustion and a range of
>industrial and agricultural processes.
>
>The evidence is incontrovertible: Global warming is occurring. If no
>mitigating actions are taken, significant disruptions in the Earth’s
>physical and ecological systems, social systems, security and human
>health are likely to occur. We must reduce emissions of greenhouse gases
>beginning now."
>
>
> From the National Academy of Sciences
>http://nationalacademies.org/onpi/06072005.pdf
>"Climate change is real:
>There will always be uncertainty in understanding a system as complex as
>the world’s climate. However there is now strong evidence that
>significant global warming is occurring1. The evidence comes from direct
>measurements of rising surface air temperatures and subsurface ocean
>temperatures and from phenomena such as increases in average global sea
>levels, retreating glaciers, and changes to many physical and biological
>systems. It is likely that most of the warming in recent decades can be
>attributed to human activities (IPCC 2001)2. This warming has already
>led to changes in the Earth's climate.
>
>The existence of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere is vital to life on
>Earth – in their absence average temperatures would be about 30
>centigrade degrees lower than they are today. But human activities are
>now causing atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases – including
>carbon dioxide, methane, tropospheric ozone, and nitrous oxide – to rise
>well above pre-industrial levels. Carbon dioxide levels have increased
>from 280 ppm in 1750 to over 375 ppm today – higher than any previous
>levels that can be reliably measured (i.e. in the last 420,000 years).
>Increasing greenhouse gases are causing
>temperatures to rise; the Earth’s surface warmed by approximately 0.6
>centigrade degrees over the twentieth century. The Intergovernmental
>Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) projected that the average global surface
>temperatures will continue to increase to between 1.4 centigrade degrees
>and 5.8 centigrade degrees above 1990 levels, by 2100."
>
>
> From the American Geophysical Union
> http://www.agu.org/sci_soc/policy/positions/climate_change20 08.shtml
>"Human Impacts on Climate:
>The Earth's climate is now clearly out of balance and is warming. Many
>components of the climate system—including the temperatures of the
>atmosphere, land and ocean, the extent of sea ice and mountain glaciers,
>the sea level, the distribution of precipitation, and the length of
>seasons—are now changing at rates and in patterns that are not natural
>and are best explained by the increased atmospheric abundances of
>greenhouse gases and aerosols generated by human activity during the
>20th century. Global average surface temperatures increased on average
>by about 0.6°C over the period 1956–2006. As of 2006, eleven of the
>previous twelve years were warmer than any others since 1850. The
>observed rapid retreat of Arctic sea ice is expected to continue and
>lead to the disappearance of summertime ice within this century.
>Evidence from most oceans and all continents except Antarctica shows
>warming attributable to human activities. Recent changes in many
>physical and biological systems are linked with this regional climate
>change. A sustained research effort, involving many AGU members and
>summarized in the 2007 assessments of the Intergovernmental Panel on
>Climate Change, continues to improve our scientific understanding of the
>climate.
>
>During recent millennia of relatively stable climate, civilization
>became established and populations have grown rapidly. In the next 50
>years, even the lower limit of impending climate change—an additional
>global mean warming of 1°C above the last decade—is far beyond the range
>of climate variability experienced during the past thousand years and
>poses global problems in planning for and adapting to it. Warming
>greater than 2°C above 19th century levels is projected to be
>disruptive, reducing global agricultural productivity, causing
>widespread loss of biodiversity, and—if sustained over centuries—melting
>much of the Greenland ice sheet with ensuing rise in sea level of
>several meters. If this 2°C warming is to be avoided, then our net
>annual emissions of CO2 must be reduced by more than 50 percent within
>this century. With such projections, there are many sources of
>scientific uncertainty, but none are known that could make the impact of
>climate change inconsequential. Given the uncertainty in climate
>projections, there can be surprises that may cause more dramatic
>disruptions than anticipated from the most probable model projections.
>
>With climate change, as with ozone depletion, the human footprint on
>Earth is apparent. The cause of disruptive climate change, unlike ozone
>depletion, is tied to energy use and runs through modern society.
>Solutions will necessarily involve all aspects of society. Mitigation
>strategies and adaptation responses will call for collaborations across
>science, technology, industry, and government. Members of the AGU, as
>part of the scientific community, collectively have special
>responsibilities: to pursue research needed to understand it; to educate
>the public on the causes, risks, and hazards; and to communicate clearly
>and objectively with those who can implement policies to shape future
>climate."
>
>
> From The Geological Society of America
>http://www.geosociety.org/positions/position10.htm
>"The Geological Society of America (GSA) supports the scientific
>conclusions that Earth’s climate is changing; the climate changes are
>due in part to human activities; and the probable consequences of the
>climate changes will be significant and blind to geopolitical
>boundaries. Furthermore, the potential implications of global climate
>change and the time scale over which such changes will likely occur
>require active, effective, long-term planning. GSA also supports
>statements on the global climate change issue made by the joint national
>academies of science (June 2005), American Geophysical Union (December,
>2003), and American Chemical Society (2004). GSA strongly encourages
>that the following efforts be undertaken internationally: (1) adequately
>research climate change at all time scales, (2) develop thoughtful,
>science-based policy appropriate for the multifaceted issues of global
>climate change, (3) organize global planning to recognize, prepare for,
>and adapt to the causes and consequences of global climate change, and
>(4) organize and develop comprehensive, long-term strategies for
>sustainable energy, particularly focused on minimizing impacts on global
>climate."
>
>
> From the American Meteorological Society
>http://www.ametsoc.org/POLICY/2007climatechange.html
>"Why is climate changing?
>Climate has changed throughout geological history, for many natural
>reasons such as changes in the sun’s energy received by Earth arising
>from slow orbital changes, or changes in the sun’s energy reaching
>Earth’s surface due to volcanic eruptions. In recent decades, humans
>have increasingly affected local, regional, and global climate by
>altering the flows of radiative energy and water through the Earth
>system (resulting in changes in temperature, winds, rainfall, etc.),
>which comprises the atmosphere, land surface, vegetation, ocean, land
>ice, and sea ice. Indeed, strong observational evidence and results from
>modeling studies indicate that, at least over the last 50 years, human
>activities are a major contributor to climate change.
>
>Direct human impact is through changes in the concentration of certain
>trace gases such as carbon dioxide, chlorofluorocarbons, methane,
>nitrous oxide, ozone, and water vapor, known collectively as greenhouse
>gases. Enhanced greenhouse gases have little effect on the incoming
>energy of the sun, but they act as a blanket to reduce the outgoing
>infrared radiation emitted by Earth and its atmosphere; the surface and
>atmosphere therefore warm so as to increase the outgoing energy until
>the outgoing and incoming flows of energy are equal. Carbon dioxide
>accounts for about half of the human-induced greenhouse gas contribution
>to warming since the late 1800s, with increases in the other greenhouse
>gases accounting for the rest; changes in solar output may have provided
>an augmentation to warming in the first half of the 20th century.
>
>Carbon dioxide concentration is rising mostly as a result of fossil-fuel
>burning and partly from clearing of vegetation; about 50% of the
>enhanced emissions remain in the atmosphere, while the rest of the Earth
>system continues to absorb the remaining 50%. In the last 50 years
>atmospheric CO2 concentration has been increasing at a rate much faster
>than any rates observed in the geological record of the past several
>thousand years. Global annual-mean surface temperatures are rising at a
>rapid rate to values higher than at any time in the last 400 (and
>probably in the last 1000) years. Once introduced in the atmosphere,
>carbon dioxide remains for at least a few hundred years and implies a
>lengthy guarantee of sustained future warming. Further, increases in
>greenhouse gases are nearly certain to produce continued increases in
>temperature. Such changes in temperature lead to changes in clouds,
>pressure, winds, and rainfall in a complex sequence of further effects."
>
>
> Al Gore does,
>> after all he invented the internet.
>
>Here's what snopes has to say about that:
>
>http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp
>"Despite the derisive references that continue even today, Al Gore did
>not claim he "invented" the Internet, nor did he say anything that could
>reasonably be interpreted that way. The "Al Gore said he 'invented' the
>Internet" put-downs were misleading, out-of-context distortions of
>something he said during an interview with Wolf Blitzer on CNN's "Late
>Edition" program on 9 March 1999."
>
>
>Besides, Al Gore is not the point, he's just one guy. Love him or hate
>him, the climate will do what it does with or without him. It's best to
>look to the actual science.
>
>
>Nothing like trying to shift the wealth
>> of the world and making money doing it by selling global offsets and taxing
>> the shit out of stupid people with a lie!
>
>That the climate is currently changing is not a lie, it's a measurable
>phenomenon we are currently experiencing on our planet.
>
>A lot of evidence points to human contributions to the current climate
>change event. So again, this is not a lie.
>
>Your problem is with politics and economics, not with science. Blaming
>the science does not help your cause. You have political and economic
>objections to some of the proposed solutions, so by all means take them
>on. If you don't like using a market mechanism to regulate carbon
>emissions, which is just one idea that's been proposed, there are other
>options on the table.
>
>Do your best to move the solutions conversation in a direction you're
>more comfortable with. But simple blanket denial of actual evidence and
>peer reviewed science won't get you there.
>
>
>> The Bush's, the Clinton's, and
>> the Gore's are all Trilateralists, they have done a fine job of lowering
>> the standard of living here in the USA! Long live the CFR, the world banks
>> and man made Global warming.
>
>You can believe what you like about all that, except that there is
>actual evidence supporting human contributions to the current climate
>change event. Again, ignoring evidence won't get you very far.
>
>
>> By the way, if you buy the man made global warming lie, I got some swamp
>> land I'd like to sell you!
>
>You're being sold swamp land already, possibly by the fossil fuels
>industry, and by people who want to maintain power and income.
>
>http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/denialmachine/index.html
>"The Denial Machine investigates the roots of the campaign to negate the
>science and the threat of global warming. It tracks the activities of a
>group of scientists, some of whom previously consulted for Big Tobacco,
>and who are now receiving donations from major coal and oil companies."
>
>http://www.exxonsecrets.org/
>"The database compiles Exxon Foundation and corporate funding to a
>series of institutions who have worked to undermine solutions to global
>warming and climate change. It details the working relationships of
>individuals associated with these organizations and their global warming
>quotes and deeds."
>
>Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>
>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>> Rich Lamanna wrote:
>>>> Must be global warming. Anyone seen this? If you've got an hour check
>> it
>>>> out. It may take a minute or two to load.
>>> Yep, the swindle movie is old news, we even discussed it here.
>>>
>>> As I mentioned at the time, it ignores the main body of peer-reviewed
>>> scientific evidence for the sake of sensationalism. It was done that way
>>
>>> deliberately by the producers, with no attempt at an objective look at
>>> the actual scientific evidence. Fair and balanced it ain't.
>>>
>>> I do like the breathless announcer, fast cuts and dramatic music. It's
>>> always fun to see a one-sided polemic that ironically accuses others of
>>
>>> being one-sided. I doubt anyone here is gullible enough to take it as an
>>
>>> objective authority.
>>>
>>> But anyway, here's more (follow the links):
>>>
>>> From:
>>> http://climatedenial.org/2007/05/01/why-was-the-great-global -warming-swindle-so-persuasive/
>>> "The fans of the film would argue that it has been effective because it
>>
>>> is true. But truth is not, of itself, persuasive. When we receive new
>>> information on a topic we have no idea whether it is true or not. We
>>> base our conclusions on how it was presented to us, whether it concurs
>>> with what we already know about that topic, how far we trust the person
>>
>>> telling us, and how well that information fits inside our world view. We
>>
>>> then seek to match our initial conclusions against the conclusions of
>>> our peers. So, although we think we seek truth, the process by which we
>>
>>> reach opinions is equally capable of leading us in the wrong direction.
>>
>>> It turns out that Swindle was a collection of rather crude distortions
>>> in an elegant package. We now know that the data was misrepresented, the
>>
>>> charts re-arranged, and the interviews edited in ways that were designed
>>
>>> to mislead."
>>>
>>> From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindl e
>>> "Although the documentary was welcomed by global warming sceptics, it
>>> was criticised heavily by many scientific organisations and individual
>>> scientists (including two of the film's contributors[3][4]). The film's
>>
>>> critics argued that it had misused data, relied on out-of-date research,
>>
>>> employed misleading arguments, and misrepresented the position of the
>>> Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change."
>>>
>>> From: http://www.climateofdenial.net/?q=node/7
>>> "The DVD version of ‘The Great Global Warming Swindle’ has been
>>> available for purchase since late July 2007. The front of the
>>> presentation case describes it as a “documentary”, which is defined by
>>> the Oxford English Dictionary as “a film or television or radio
>>> programme giving a factual account of something, using film,
>>> photographs, and sound recordings of real events”. However, the DVD
>>> contains at least five major misrepresentations of the scientific
>>> evidence and researchers’ views on climate change. This document
>>> presents details of the five misrepresentations."
>>>
>>> From http://www.medialens.org/alerts/07/0313pure_propaganda_the.p hp
>>> "What we now have is an out-and-out propaganda piece, in which there is
>>
>>> not even a gesture toward balance or explanation of why many of the
>>> extended inferences drawn in the film are not widely accepted by the
>>> scientific community. There are so many examples, it's hard to know
>>> where to begin, so I will cite only one: a speaker asserts, as is true,
>>
>>> that carbon dioxide is only a small fraction of the atmospheric mass.
>>> The viewer is left to infer that means it couldn't really matter. But
>>> even a beginning meteorology student could tell you that the relative
>>> masses of gases are irrelevant to their effects on radiative balance. A
>>
>>> director not intending to produce pure propaganda would have tried to
>>> eliminate that piece of disinformation.” (http://ocean.mit.edu/~cwunsch/
>>
>>> papersonline/channel4response)"
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> -Jamie
>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rich Lamanna wrote:
>>>> Must be global warming. Anyone seen this? If you've got an hour check
>> it
>>>> out. It may take a minute or two to load.
>>>>
>>>> http://en.sevenload.com/videos/ha4PoKY/The-Great-Global-Warm ing-Swindle
>>>>
>>>> Rich
>>>>
>>>> "EK Sound" <ask_me@nospam.net> wrote in message news:479e36ad$1@linux...
>>>>> Woke up this morning and the temp with wind chill was -59C >:(
>>>>>
>>>>> Why did I move here again???
>>>>>
>>>>> David.
>>>>
>>
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I hate winter...
By: EK Sound on Mon, 28 January 2008 11:55
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 13:27
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Bill L on Mon, 28 January 2008 12:30
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 14:02
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Mon, 28 January 2008 14:38
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 22:48
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 22:50
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 22:53
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Neil on Mon, 28 January 2008 22:59
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 21:56
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Mon, 28 January 2008 23:49
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 20:04
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Mon, 28 January 2008 23:39
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Re: I hate winter...
By: excelav on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:03
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Tue, 29 January 2008 09:51
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:36
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Tue, 29 January 2008 11:16
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Tue, 29 January 2008 22:03
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I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Deej [5] on Thu, 31 January 2008 15:26
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: dc[3] on Thu, 31 January 2008 17:35
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Jamie K on Thu, 31 January 2008 17:10
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Deej [5] on Fri, 01 February 2008 10:40
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Jamie K on Fri, 01 February 2008 13:57
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: excelav on Fri, 01 February 2008 11:55
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Jamie K on Fri, 01 February 2008 13:53
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: excelav on Fri, 01 February 2008 20:31
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Jamie K on Fri, 01 February 2008 23:10
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Kim on Thu, 31 January 2008 19:31
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: dc[3] on Thu, 31 January 2008 23:08
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Wed, 30 January 2008 02:03
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:38
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:48
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Wed, 30 January 2008 01:41
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Don Nafe on Tue, 29 January 2008 05:31
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Re: I hate winter...
By: EK Sound on Tue, 29 January 2008 07:45
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:41
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Sarah on Tue, 29 January 2008 05:50
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:42
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Sarah on Wed, 30 January 2008 14:56
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Thu, 31 January 2008 02:28
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Re: I hate winter...
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