Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Pro tools summing bus revealed?
| Re: Pro tools summing bus revealed? [message #62380 is a reply to message #62356] |
Wed, 04 January 2006 10:20   |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
> Right now his chain is a Mackie 1402 vlz into the Digi 002.
> Any suggestions?
> TIA
> RodHence the 5 year warranty I got with mine! ;>) I won't buy another Plasma
though mine's been fine. DLP is just better tech.
Tony
"EK Sound" <spamnot.info@eksoundNO.com> wrote in message
news:43bc02d3$1@linux...
> DLP rear projection is the best way to go... replace the bulb abd it looks
> brand new. LCD fades as does Plasma... expect a useable lifespan of 4-5
> years with Plasma.
>
> David.
>
> Pete Ruthenburg wrote:
>
>> SO we've been using a 27" up til now.The wifey and I are thinking of
>> getting a new tv.We started out looking at 30-32"
>> tube HDTVs,but then the picture quality of the lcds started to
>> wow us.
>>
>> Now I see you can get 42" projection DLP and Lcds for less than
>> 2 grand.So our budget has maybe doubled from what we were
>> thinking at first.We just don't want to buy something then want
>> something else a couple of years later.
>>
>> Anybody got some cool sets their running or have any advice.
>>
>> I'm really eyeing the Sony 42" projection LCD pretty good right
>> now.
>>
>> TIA,
>> PeteThat's a common problem with a lot of Firewire audio units. A lot of my friend
who have the Digi 002 units loses it's connections every now and then. very
annoying to say the least.
That's why I still prefer a PCI audio interface. Serial interfaces are finicky
be it hard drives, mouses..
LAD
"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>FWIW, I grabbed the PT M Powered app demo and it loses my M Audio Firewire
>Audiophile rather regularly - requiring a reboot.
>AA
>
>
>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
>news:43bb0adb$1@linux...
>> John,Look on the B&H site,
>>
>> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=search& ;Q=&b=1315&shs=&ci=9576&ac=&Submit.x=17& amp;Submit.y=12
>>
>> They have all the cards you'll need plus all the software.
>> Buying any M-Audio product means you can buy PT M-Powered for around $300
>> Martin Harrington
>> www.lendanear-sound.com
>>
>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:43babdce@linux...
>>> But how much money is it? And can it use VSTs ?
>>>
>>> LaMont wrote:
>>>> Hey John,
>>>>
>>>> I don't really know if LE has PDC, HD does. You can get 16 i/os in LE
>>>> with
>>>> the Follwoing Products:
>>>>
>>>> -Digi 002(Rack)or not
>>>> -M-Audio Project Mix I/O
>>>> -FireWire 1814
>>>>
>>>> All of the above units have a additional Adat ports. That way you can
>>>> add
>>>> 8 channels of I/O of your choice.
>>>> LaMont
>>>>
>>>> John <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Does PT LE have autocompensation for plugs? How much can I get 16 I/Os
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>for ?
>>>>>
>>>>>LaMont wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hey guys,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I know that this is an old thread, but I have to disagree with
>>>>>>assessments
>>>>>>on Pro Tools sound quality.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>First, I mix with Pro Tools HD at our Church's studio for major release
>>>>
>>>> Gospel
>>>>
>>>>>>Cds. Pro Tools HD sounds wonderful with low and high track counts and
>>>>
>>>> ITB
>>>>
>>>>>>(in the Box) or summed to the SSL,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>At my home studio, I have PT LE & Nuendo and while I love Nuendo's
>>>>>>elequent
>>>>>>editing and nice soft sound, it's 32 bit floating mixer in a major
pain
>>>>
>>>> in
>>>>
>>>>>>!@# to mix aggresive Rock, R &B, Hip hop with. Onthe other hand, those
>>>>
>>>> same
>>>>
>>>>>>mixes done in PT LE, have that sparkle and width. In Nuendo, after
30
>>>>
>>>> tracks,
>>>>
>>>>>>things start's getting "smearded" and tracks levels tends to get lost
>>>>
>>>> or
>>>>
>>>>>>they don't sit right.
>>>>>>However, in PT Le, (same songs, tracks are not smeared, levels stay
>>>>>>intacked,
>>>>>>and the overall mix sounds very professional, just like mixes in
>>>>>>Paris..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Some local Engineer friends in the area( Motown), have been in
>>>>>>discussions
>>>>>>about the state of current DAWs and what's working and what's not.
>>>>>>Opinions
>>>>>>varied,but the one constant opinion that was stated was how dificult
it
>>>>
>>>> was
>>>>
>>>>>>to mix in Cubase and Nuendo on mixes over 30 tracks. No matter what
i/o
>>>>
>>>> converters(Apogee,Lucid,Motu,
>>>>
>>>>>>RME) mixing Rock , R&B, Hip-Hop is a dificult chore in
>>>>>>SX/Nuendo..Where
>>>>>>as mixing in Paris and Pro Tools is not.. Hey,Just one Engineer's
>>>>>>opinon.
>>>>>>P.S
>>>>>>Jsut for geekdum sakes, the new Sonar 5 uses a newly coded 64 to 32bit
>>>>
>>>> floating
>>>>
>>>>>>point mixer..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yukkk,
>>>>>>>Don't do it..PT I mean.
>>>>>>>I've just been playing with PT M-Powered 6.8, using my Delta 1010,
and
>>>>
>>>> I
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>have to say...I don't like it.
>>>>>>>The interface is (IMNSHO), horrible, confusing, and convoluted.
>>>>>>>Moves that come easily in Paris, and more easily in Nuendo, are
>>>>>>>tiresome
>>>>>>
>>>>>>in
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>PT, apart from the reagon tool...taht has always been good, right
from
>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Session 8 days, but not much else.
>>>>>>>And..it only plays .MOV video files, which in my case is a no-no,
(the
>>>>
>>>> full
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>TDM version may play the others but I don't think so).
>>>>>>>To top it off, playing one of my projects from Nuendo, (reassembled),
>>>>
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| Re: Pro tools summing bus revealed? [message #62383 is a reply to message #62320] |
Wed, 04 January 2006 10:24 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
>>
>>>>>>>>>feeling
>>>>>>>>>that this reprocessing *per channel* is the reason the TDM systems
>>>>>>>>>seem
>>>>>>
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>start sounding gnarly as more and more tracks are summed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>
>Now that sucks!
dcn
"EK Sound" <spamnot.info@eksoundNO.com> wrote in message
news:43bc023c$1@linux...
> Yup... at least I was trying to "undo" recording... ;-)
>
> David.
>
> Don Nafe wrote:
>> Are you speaking from experience...I certainly hope not
>>
>> Don
>>
>>
>> "EK Sound" <spamnot.info@eksoundNO.com> wrote in message
>> news:43bbfab2$1@linux...
>>
>>>Don't "undo record" while Paris is in the middle of creating overviews
>>>for 32 audio tracks 1.5 hours long.... BOOM! ;-)
>>>
>>>David.
>>>
>>>John wrote:
>>>
>>>>Can anyone add or clarify my new list of Paris no nos ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Things to keep you from crashing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>In STOP mode
>>>>
>>>> DON'T
>>>> * select a new Native Effect if the current one is open
>>>> * enter record mode without first setting your record path
>>>> (Ctrl-R)
>>>> * use the name of the project for your recording path
>>>> * save with looping enabled
>>>>
>>>>During Playback or Recording
>>>>
>>>> DON'T
>>>> * change inserts (native or eds)
>>>> * move loop or punch points
>>>> * enable or disable loop or punch
>>>>
>>>>Rendering
>>>> DON'T
>>>> * render tracks with different lengths
>>>>
>>>>NoLimit
>>>>
>>>> DON'T
>>>> * use 0 or 50 values
>>
>>One thing that they didn't do on that DAW summing CD was to push the
respective systems. I think a lot more would have been revealed had this
been done and Brian could have used the various gain staging options
available in Paris.
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:43bc03c4$1@linux...
>
> Agreed :)
> LaMont
>
> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
> >
> >I wasn't thinking you were slamming SX or native stuff in general. In
fact,
> >in theory native mixes should sound better becuase of the necessary
latencies
> >in many hardware based computer systems. And I agree that different
sytstems
> >need to be worked differently to sound good--I think a lot of what makes
> >PARIS sound good is that it takes abuse artfully, maybe even
aesthetically.
> >But I was shocked at how little difference there was on that DAW CD.
> >
> >TCB
> >
> >"La" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>Good Post Thad..
> >>
> >>My point was not to slam SX/Nuendo,but to say that:
> >>
> >>-Pro Toools Sounds good if not great.
> >>-(To Me) I have to work harder to get good mixes out of SX/Nuendo. The
> >mixes
> >>end up sound ing great, but the work involved is not as easy(To me) get
> >maximum
> >>results.
> >>Take care
> >>
> >>
> >>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>I did the DAW summing CD thingy from what's his name in Nashville and
> could
> >>>find basically zero difference in anything. Maybe I'm deaf, but if you
> >were
> >>>to double blind me I don't think I could pick out individual mixes
consistently.
> >>>Since that was (if I recall) a 24 track mix that was big and loud and
> R&B/rock/gospel
> >>>I would think that would argue against this idea. However, it's a
little
> >>>like the audiophile world sometimes where when the tests seem to
disprove
> >>>personal experience the test is faulted instead of the experience.
That's
> >>>fine, ears are very fine instruments and some are just better than
others.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>That said, I now work a good bit of my time in the finance world where
> >fortunes
> >>>are made and lost according to the certitude of people in their
experiences
> >>>or mathmatical models. Over time this has lead me to believe more in
emperical
> >>>results than my experience. So if I do my own blind tests with the
Nashville
> >>>CD and can't generate statistically significant data that DAWs sound
different
> >>>then *I* will believe they sound the same. This could mean a flawed
test
> >>>or flawed ears but that's my belief until someone can present me with
> more
> >>>convincing data.
> >>>
> >>>But hey, that's just me. I've also done mixes of 30+ tracks in SX and
> think
> >>>they sound quite nice.
> >>>
> >>>TCB
> >>>
> >>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>Hey guys,
> >>>>
> >>>>I know that this is an old thread, but I have to disagree with
assessments
> >>>>on Pro Tools sound quality.
> >>>>
> >>>>First, I mix with Pro Tools HD at our Church's studio for major
release
> >>>Gospel
> >>>>Cds. Pro Tools HD sounds wonderful with low and high track counts and
> >ITB
> >>>>(in the Box) or summed to the SSL,
> >>>>
> >>>>At my home studio, I have PT LE & Nuendo and while I love Nuendo's
elequent
> >>>>editing and nice soft sound, it's 32 bit floating mixer in a major
pain
> >>>in
> >>>>!@# to mix aggresive Rock, R &B, Hip hop with. Onthe other hand,
those
> >>>same
> >>>>mixes done in PT LE, have that sparkle and width. In Nuendo, after 30
> >tracks,
> >>>>things start's getting "smearded" and tracks levels tends to get lost
> >or
> >>>>they don't sit right.
> >>>>
> >>>>However, in PT Le, (same songs, tracks are not smeared, levels stay
intacked,
> >>>>and the overall mix sounds very professional, just like mixes in
Paris..
> >>>>
> >>>>Some local Engineer friends in the area( Motown), have been in
discussions
> >>>>about the state of current DAWs and what's working and what's not.
Opinions
> >>>>varied,but the one constant opinion that was stated was how dificult
> it
> >>>was
> >>>>to mix in Cubase and Nuendo on mixes over 30 tracks. No matter what
i/o
> >>>converters(Apogee,Lucid,Motu,
> >>>>RME) mixing Rock , R&B, Hip-Hop is a dificult chore in
SX/Nuendo..Where
> >>>>as mixing in Paris and Pro Tools is not..
> >>>>Hey,Just one Engineer's opinon.
> >>>>
> >>>>P.S
> >>>>Jsut for geekdum sakes, the new Sonar 5 uses a newly coded 64 to
32bit
> >>>floating
> >>>>point mixer..
> >>>>
> >>>>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> >>>>>Yukkk,
> >>>>>Don't do it..PT I mean.
> >>>>>I've just been playing with PT M-Powered 6.8, using my Delta 1010,
and
> >>>I
> >>>>
> >>>>>have to say...I don't like it.
> >>>>>The interface is (IMNSHO), horrible, confusing, and convoluted.
> >>>>>Moves that come easily in Paris, and more easily in Nuendo, are
tiresome
> >>>>in
> >>>>>PT, apart from the reagon tool...taht has always been good, right
from
> >>>the
> >>>>
> >>>>>Session 8 days, but not much else.
> >>>>>And..it only plays .MOV video files, which in my case is a no-no,
(the
> >>>full
> >>>>
> >>>>>TDM version may play the others but I don't think so).
> >>>>>To top it off, playing one of my projects from Nuendo, (reassembled),
> >>it
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| Re: Pro tools summing bus revealed? [message #62385 is a reply to message #62380] |
Wed, 04 January 2006 09:24 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
gt;>>to
> >>>>>>>start sounding gnarly as more and more tracks are summed.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>That's what I was going to say. Can be used as an AD/DA and as well as a
front end for a DAW.
Doesn't the Digimax do something similar?
Deej
"EK Sound" <spamnot.info@eksoundNO.com> wrote in message
news:43bc0326$1@linux...
> Look for a used Focusrite Octopre with the adat card.
>
> David.
>
> Rod Lincoln wrote:
>
> > I've got a friend/client who's looking for an 8 channel mic pre that has
lightpipe/spdif
> > outs. He's running a digi 002 rig and wants to bypass the digi A/D
stage.
> > He wants it to be good, but affordability is a concern. He was looking a
> > a presonus digimax LT, but I saw that Aaron had some experience with
those
> > and wasn't that hot on them.
> > Right now his chain is a Mackie 1402 vlz into the Digi 002.
> > Any suggestions?
> > TIA
> > RodTony,thanks for the info.At Best Buy they had a Samsung 42"DLP
and Sony 42" projection LCD set up next to each other and both my
wife and I preferred the LCD to the DLP.
If I bought right now it would probably be some kind of rear
projection deal.After reading some stuff on Cnet it seems some
newer technolgy will be out this year and some prices dropping on
things,but I guess you could always say that.
Right now I'm wondering if I should hold off for a little bit,
save a little money and see what happens technology-wise.
Thanks,
Pete
"Tony Benson" <tony@standinghampton.com> wrote:
>Pete,
>
>I research this stuff a little bit from time to time. I bought a 42" Plasma
>a couple of years ago. It's been a decent TV, but if I was looking now,
I'd
>go with the DLP technology rear projectors. The picture is actually better
>in my and several "TV magazine guru's" opinion, and the technology is very
>sturdy. Also, as Jef said, Plasma and LCD tech is very hard to repair. It's
>more like if it goes bad, plan on replacing it. If you do go with a Plasma
>or LCD, get the extended warranty. If you go somewhere like Best Buy, try
>talking the salesman into discounting the TV by the price of the warranty,
>so you basically end up getting it free. That's what I did. They'll usually
>work with you, because I think they make more commission on selling the
>warranties than the TV's. That's my two cents!
>
>Tony
>
>
>
>"Pete Ruthenburg" <ruthenburg@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>news:43bb5535$1@linux...
>>
>> SO we've been using a 27" up til now.The wifey and I are
>> thinking of getting a new tv.We started out looking at 30-32"
>> tube HDTVs,but then the picture quality of the lcds started to
>> wow us.
>>
>> Now I see you can get 42" projection DLP and Lcds for less than
>> 2 grand.So our budget has maybe doubled from what we were
>> thinking at first.We just don't want to buy something then want
>> something else a couple of years later.
>>
>> Anybody got some cool sets their running or have any advice.
>>
>> I'm really eyeing the Sony 42" projection LCD pretty good right
>> now.
>>
>> TIA,
>> Pete
>
>I forgot to mention that the preamp was a Great River MP2-MH and the
converters were RME Multiface A/D's.
Deej
"Tony Benson" <tony@standinghampton.com> wrote in message
news:43bbf93d@linux...
> DJ sent me some new SE mic example files and they're up on the PARIS File
> Vault site:
>
> http://www.mercysakes.com/paris/Doug%20Joyce/More%20SE%20Exa mples/
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Tony
>
>Rod,
I was playing around with this last night myself. I like it too. A nice
weapon to have in the arsenal, so to speak.
;o)
"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:43bbe145$1@linux...
>
> I've been messing with the UAD Multiband comp demo, and, I think I'll have
> to buy it. I've been mixing a live dixieland album, and really like the
mixes
> I have, (using the paris comp, freak Q in the master inserts). Thought I'd
> try the Multiband on it.(the stereo mixed files) At first I was put out
that
> it clipped so easy (all the UAD stuff does that though, my only gripe). I
> then remixed with the subs at a lower level and ran that mix thru the UAD.
> WOAH...sounded incrediable, every thing got even bigger and more open.
Just
> really great IMO.
> On the other hand, so far I've been under impressed with the results I've
> been able to achieve with Har-bal. Maybe I just don't know how to use it
> yet.
> RodBrian is still using Paris integrated with Nuendo last I heard.
Deej
"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:43bbf7e6@linux...
> Yeah, he and Edmund told us how great it was and then bailed on us.
> Right? Tell me if I'm wrong.
>
> Edna wrote:
> > Curious as to what he moved to from Paris. From what I've read of his
older
> > posts, and the fact he made an instructional video, seemed like he was
> > pretty happy with Paris.
> > Edna
> >
> > "erlilo" <erlilo@online.no> wrote in message news:43bbf0ce@linux...
> >
> >>Maybe that was the problem. I think the man BrianT just wanted a real
> >
> > life,
> >
> >>not only breathing here with his pen, year after year ;-)
> >>
> >>Erling
> >>
> >>"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> skrev i melding news:43bbc437$1@linux...
> >>
> >>>And after all the things we did for that schmuck...made him the EA he
is
> >>>today....sheesh!
> >>>
> >>>Don
> >>>
> >>>;-)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >OY!!!!.....dude!!!! What a drag ;o(
"EK Sound" <spamnot.info@eksoundNO.com> wrote in message
news:43bbfab2$1@linux...
> Don't "undo record" while Paris is in the middle of creating overviews
> for 32 audio tracks 1.5 hours long.... BOOM! ;-)
>
> David.
>
> John wrote:
> > Can anyone add or clarify my new list of Paris no nos ?
> >
> >
> >
> > Things to keep you from crashing.
> >
> >
> > In STOP mode
> >
> > DON'T
> > * select a new Native Effect if the current one is open
> > * enter record mode without first setting your record path
(Ctrl-R)
> > * use the name of the project for your recording path
> > * save with looping enabled
> >
> > During Playback or Recording
> >
> > DON'T
> > * change inserts (native or eds)
> > * move loop or punch points
> > * enable or disable loop or punch
> >
> > Rendering
> >
> > DON'T
> > * render tracks with different lengths
> >
> > NoLimit
> >
> > DON'T
> > * use 0 or 50 valuesI tried the EPOX 8RDA+ and had a terrible time with it on a larger system
with Matrox video cards. Erling has had good luck with this mobo. I am still
using an ASUS A7V8X-LAN mobo with my Paris system with an AMD XP2800 CPU.
It's the most stable Paris DAW I've ever built. Highly recommended here.
Deej
"Edna" <edna@texomaonline.com> wrote in message news:43bc01b3@linux...
> Going to get another MB for my barton core 2500+ cpu. The ECS pile I had
> finally expired. Have been looking at possibly ASUS ABIT MSI Shuttle and
> EPOX. I can get a new feature loaded EPOX 8RDA3+ pretty reasonable or
look
> for the others used on ebay - prices in $70 range. Also can pick up a new
> nVidia FX5200 dual head video card cheap, or a MM G450 real cheap. The
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| Re: Pro tools summing bus revealed? [message #62395 is a reply to message #62383] |
Wed, 04 January 2006 09:56 |
Tony Benson
Messages: 453
Registered: June 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
br />
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>If I can't get some of my tedious little troubles with paris
>>>>>>>>>resolved
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I'm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>considering switching to protools.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>jef
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>DJ wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/WhitePaper_48BitMix er.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Any comments? It appears to me that the signals are recorded at
> 24
>>>>>>>>>>bit, then processed at whatever bit rate the plugin on the channel
>
>>>>>>>>>>has,
>>>>>>>>>>including dither, or not, then reprocessed to 24 bit, then these
>
>>>>>>>>>>channels
>>>>>>>>>>are summed. I'm no guru when it comes to this stuff, but I get
>>>>>>>>>>this
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>feeling
>>>>>>>>>>that this reprocessing *per channel* is the reason the TDM systems
>
>>>>>>>>>>seem
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>start sounding gnarly as more and more tracks are summed.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>I've never used EPOX, but its the only new name board I could find. Great
reviews on it. At Newegg with 2yr mfg warranty. Did you ever try it with a
different video card? I will check out ebay for the Via chipset asus.
Thanks
"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
news:43bc0a80@linux...
> I tried the EPOX 8RDA+ and had a terrible time with it on a larger system
> with Matrox video cards. Erling has had good luck with this mobo. I am
still
> using an ASUS A7V8X-LAN mobo with my Paris system with an AMD XP2800 CPU.
> It's the most stable Paris DAW I've ever built. Highly recommended here.
>
> Deej
>
> "Edna" <edna@texomaonline.com> wrote in message news:43bc01b3@linux...
> > Going to get another MB for my barton core 2500+ cpu. The ECS pile I
had
> > finally expired. Have been looking at possibly ASUS ABIT MSI Shuttle
and
> > EPOX. I can get a new feature loaded EPOX 8RDA3+ pretty reasonable or
> look
> > for the others used on ebay - prices in $70 range. Also can pick up a
new
> > nVidia FX5200 dual head video card cheap, or a MM G450 real cheap. The
> > nVidia chipset boards have a little better performance, and I've had
good
> > luck with their video cards. Any tips on what works well or not with
> > PARIS?
> >
> >
>
>That's the beauty of PARIS. It's like an analog console with plugins and
editing. You can push it and pull it and twist it and mold it without worry.
In the last year of working with DP I've learned just how cool PARIS really
is. Red lights in DP mean ouch. Red lights in PARIS mean things are cookin'.
Tony
"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
news:43bc05f6@linux...
> One thing that they didn't do on that DAW summing CD was to push the
> respective systems. I think a lot more would have been revealed had this
> been done and Brian could have used the various gain staging options
> available in Paris.
>
>
> "LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:43bc03c4$1@linux...
>>
>> Agreed :)
>> LaMont
>>
>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >I wasn't thinking you were slamming SX or native stuff in general. In
> fact,
>> >in theory native mixes should sound better becuase of the necessary
> latencies
>> >in many hardware based computer systems. And I agree that different
> sytstems
>> >need to be worked differently to sound good--I think a lot of what makes
>> >PARIS sound good is that it takes abuse artfully, maybe even
> aesthetically.
>> >But I was shocked at how little difference there was on that DAW CD.
>> >
>> >TCB
>> >
>> >"La" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>Good Post Thad..
>> >>
>> >>My point was not to slam SX/Nuendo,but to say that:
>> >>
>> >>-Pro Toools Sounds good if not great.
>> >>-(To Me) I have to work harder to get good mixes out of SX/Nuendo. The
>> >mixes
>> >>end up sound ing great, but the work involved is not as easy(To me) get
>> >maximum
>> >>results.
>> >>Take care
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>I did the DAW summing CD thingy from what's his name in Nashville and
>> could
>> >>>find basically zero difference in anything. Maybe I'm deaf, but if you
>> >were
>> >>>to double blind me I don't think I could pick out individual mixes
> consistently.
>> >>>Since that was (if I recall) a 24 track mix that was big and loud and
>> R&B/rock/gospel
>> >>>I would think that would argue against this idea. However, it's a
> little
>> >>>like the audiophile world sometimes where when the tests seem to
> disprove
>> >>>personal experience the test is faulted instead of the experience.
> That's
>> >>>fine, ears are very fine instruments and some are just better than
> others.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>That said, I now work a good bit of my time in the finance world where
>> >fortunes
>> >>>are made and lost according to the certitude of people in their
> experiences
>> >>>or mathmatical models. Over time this has lead me to believe more in
> emperical
>> >>>results than my experience. So if I do my own blind tests with the
> Nashville
>> >>>CD and can't generate statistically significant data that DAWs sound
> different
>> >>>then *I* will believe they sound the same. This could mean a flawed
> test
>> >>>or flawed ears but that's my belief until someone can present me with
>> more
>> >>>convincing data.
>> >>>
>> >>>But hey, that's just me. I've also done mixes of 30+ tracks in SX and
>> think
>> >>>they sound quite nice.
>> >>>
>> >>>TCB
>> >>>
>> >>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Hey guys,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>I know that this is an old thread, but I have to disagree with
> assessments
>> >>>>on Pro Tools sound quality.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>First, I mix with Pro Tools HD at our Church's studio for major
> release
>> >>>Gospel
>> >>>>Cds. Pro Tools HD sounds wonderful with low and high track counts and
>> >ITB
>> >>>>(in the Box) or summed to the SSL,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>At my home studio, I have PT LE & Nuendo and while I love Nuendo's
> elequent
>> >>>>editing and nice soft sound, it's 32 bit floating mixer in a major
> pain
>> >>>in
>> >>>>!@# to mix aggresive Rock, R &B, Hip hop with. Onthe other hand,
> those
>> >>>same
>> >>>>mixes done in PT LE, have that sparkle and width. In Nuendo, after 30
>> >tracks,
>> >>>>things start's getting "smearded" and tracks levels tends to get lost
>> >or
>> >>>>they don't sit right.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>However, in PT Le, (same songs, tracks are not smeared, levels stay
> intacked,
>> >>>>and the overall mix sounds very professional, just like mixes in
> Paris..
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Some local Engineer friends in the area( Motown), have been in
> discussions
>> >>>>about the state of current DAWs and what's working and what's not.
> Opinions
>> >>>>varied,but the one constant opinion that was stated was how dificult
>> it
>> >>>was
>> >>>>to mix in Cubase and Nuendo on mixes over 30 tracks. No matter what
> i/o
>> >>>converters(Apogee,Lucid,Motu,
>> >>>>RME) mixing Rock , R&B, Hip-Hop is a dificult chore in
> SX/Nuendo..Where
>> >>>>as mixing in Paris and Pro Tools is not..
>> >>>>Hey,Just one Engineer's opinon.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>P.S
>> >>>>Jsut for geekdum sakes, the new Sonar 5 uses a newly coded 64 to
> 32bit
>> >>>floating
>> >>>>point mixer..
>> >>>>
>> >>>>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>> >>>>>Yukkk,
>> >>>>>Don't do it..PT I mean.
>> >>>>>I've just been playing with PT M-Powered 6.8, using my Delta 1010,
> and
>> >>>I
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>have to say...I don't like it.
>> >>>>>The interface is (IMNSHO), horrible, confusing, and convoluted.
>> >>>>>Moves that come easily in Paris, and more easily in Nuendo, are
> tiresome
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pro tools summing bus revealed? [message #62397 is a reply to message #62385] |
Wed, 04 January 2006 10:06 |
Tony Benson
Messages: 453
Registered: June 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
ount would they sonically crap out?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> If I can't get some of my tedious little troubles with paris
> resolved
>> >>>>I'm
>> >>>>>> considering switching to protools.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> jef
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> DJ wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/WhitePaper_48BitMix er.pdf
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>Any comments? It appears to me that the signals are recorded at 24
>> >>>>>>>bit, then processed at whatever bit rate the plugin on the channel
>> >has,
>> >>>>>>>including dither, or not, then reprocessed to 24 bit, then these
> channels
>> >>>>>>>are summed. I'm no guru when it comes to this stuff, but I get
>> >>>>>>>this
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>feeling
>> >>>>>>>that this reprocessing *per channel* is the reason the TDM systems
>> >seem
>> >>>>to
>> >>>>>>>start sounding gnarly as more and more tracks are summed.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>
>Tried the EPOX with some kind of NVidia graphics card I had at the time. It
was less than a stellar experience due to the drivers not working properly,
as wierd as that seems.....but this was in NVidia's infancy about 2 1/2
years ago.
The EPOX and ASUS mobo's are operating at 333MHz bus speed, but the ASUS
board will accept a single 512MB stick of DDR 400. I think it actually
performs better with PC 2700 RAM myself and I'm running 1G of Corsair XMS PC
2700 RAM in mine. The ASUS mobo can utilize up to an XP 3200 CPU with the
most recent bios. I was using one on my Cubase rig as well with an XP 3000
CPU until I built this new dual core system.
The IRQ/sharing configuration of the ASUS A7V boards is very friendly in
Standard PC mode with the Award bios. That's one of the best things about
this board, IMO and why it's so stable.
Deej
"Edna" <edna@texomaonline.com> wrote in message news:43bc0d6c@linux...
> I've never used EPOX, but its the only new name board I could find. Great
> reviews on it. At Newegg with 2yr mfg warranty. Did you ever try it with
a
> different video card? I will check out ebay for the Via chipset asus.
> Thanks
>
> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
> news:43bc0a80@linux...
> > I tried the EPOX 8RDA+ and had a terrible time with it on a larger
system
> > with Matrox video cards. Erling has had good luck with this mobo. I am
> still
> > using an ASUS A7V8X-LAN mobo with my Paris system with an AMD XP2800
CPU.
> > It's the most stable Paris DAW I've ever built. Highly recommended here.
> >
> > Deej
> >
> > "Edna" <edna@texomaonline.com> wrote in message news:43bc01b3@linux...
> > > Going to get another MB for my barton core 2500+ cpu. The ECS pile I
> had
> > > finally expired. Have been looking at possibly ASUS ABIT MSI Shuttle
> and
> > > EPOX. I can get a new feature loaded EPOX 8RDA3+ pretty reasonable or
> > look
> > > for the others used on ebay - prices in $70 range. Also can pick up a
> new
> > > nVidia FX5200 dual head video card cheap, or a MM G450 real cheap.
The
> > > nVidia chipset boards have a little better performance, and I've had
> good
> > > luck with their video cards. Any tips on what works well or not with
> > > PARIS?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> http://store.yahoo.com/microsource-store/mb-asus-xa7v8xlan.h tml
http://www.usicomputer.com/hardware/motherboard.html
"Edna" <edna@texomaonline.com> wrote in message news:43bc0d6c@linux...
> I've never used EPOX, but its the only new name board I could find. Great
> reviews on it. At Newegg with 2yr mfg warranty. Did you ever try it with
a
> different video card? I will check out ebay for the Via chipset asus.
> Thanks
>
> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
> news:43bc0a80@linux...
> > I tried the EPOX 8RDA+ and had a terrible time with it on a larger
system
> > with Matrox video cards. Erling has had good luck with this mobo. I am
> still
> > using an ASUS A7V8X-LAN mobo with my Paris system with an AMD XP2800
CPU.
> > It's the most stable Paris DAW I've ever built. Highly recommended here.
> >
> > Deej
> >
> > "Edna" <edna@texomaonline.com> wrote in message news:43bc01b3@linux...
> > > Going to get another MB for my barton core 2500+ cpu. The ECS pile I
> had
> > > finally expired. Have been looking at possibly ASUS ABIT MSI Shuttle
> and
> > > EPOX. I can get a new feature loaded EPOX 8RDA3+ pretty reasonable or
> > look
> > > for the others used on ebay - prices in $70 range. Also can pick up a
> new
> > > nVidia FX5200 dual head video card cheap, or a MM G450 real cheap.
The
> > > nVidia chipset boards have a little better performance, and I've had
> good
> > > luck with their video cards. Any tips on what works well or not with
> > > PARIS?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>Also.....if you don't need Gigabit LAN or SATA, the A7V8X-X mobo will work
fine for you.
Deej
"Edna" <edna@texomaonline.com> wrote in message news:43bc0d6c@linux...
> I've never used EPOX, but its the only new name board I could find. Great
> reviews on it. At Newegg with 2yr mfg warranty. Did you ever try it with
a
> different video card? I will check out ebay for the Via chipset asus.
> Thanks
>
> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
> news:43bc0a80@linux...
> > I tried the EPOX 8RDA+ and had a terrible time with it on a larger
system
> > with Matrox video cards. Erling has had good luck with this mobo. I am
> still
> > using an ASUS A7V8X-LAN mobo with my Paris system with an AMD XP2800
CPU.
> > It's the most stable Paris DAW I've ever built. Highly recommended here.
> >
> > Deej
> >
> > "Edna" <edna@texomaonline.com> wrote in message news:43bc01b3@linux...
> > > Going to get another MB for my barton core 2500+ cpu. The ECS pile I
> had
> > > finally expired. Have been looking at possibly ASUS ABIT MSI Shuttle
> and
> > > EPOX. I can get a new feature loaded EPOX 8RDA3+ pretty reasonable or
> > look
> > > for the others used on ebay - prices in $70 range. Also can pick up a
> new
> > > nVidia FX5200 dual head video card cheap, or a MM G450 real cheap.
The
> > > nVidia chipset boards have a little better performance, and I've had
> good
> > > luck with their video cards. Any tips on what works well or not with
> > > PARIS?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>>Flames away! ;>)
sputter!!!!...gag!!!!!....(eyes bulging out of
sockets).....errrrrr......actually, I think you're probably right. I've
never had a good experience with FW on a PC. Ever.
;o)
"Tony Benson" <tony@standinghampton.com> wrote in message
news:43bc0cdd@linux...
> My MOTU 828 Mk II has been rock solid for over a year now. I think Macs
are
> a little more robust in the Firewire department though. Flames away! ;>)
>
> Tony
>
>
>
> "LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:43bc04d5$1@linux...
> >
> > That's a common problem with a lot of Firewire audio units. A lot of my
> > friend
> > who have the Digi 002 units loses it's connections every now and then.
> > very
> > annoying to say the least.
> >
> > That's why I still prefer a PCI audio interface. Serial interfaces are
> > finicky
> > be it hard drives, mouses..
> > LAD
> >
> > "Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote:
> >>FWIW, I grabbed the PT M Powered app demo and it loses my M Audio
Firewire
> >
> >>Audiophile rather regularly - requiring a reboot.
> >>AA
> >>
> >>
> >>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> >>news:43bb0adb$1@linux...
> >>> John,Look on the B&H site,
> >>>
> >>>
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bn
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pro tools summing bus revealed? [message #62401 is a reply to message #62395] |
Wed, 04 January 2006 10:21 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
;>didn't have the "life" that the original had, by a long shot.
> >>>>>>>>I repeat...don't go there, Jeff......
> >>>>>>>>--
> >>>>>>>>Martin Harrington
> >>>>>>>>www.lendanear-sound.com
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>"jef knight" <thestudio@allknightmusic.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>news:436fce7a$1@linux...
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>I just read the doc, thanks for posting the link. Much of it is
> >>>>>>>>>quite
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>interesting and just as much is confusing.
> >>>>>>>>>I didn't know tdm systems sounded gnarly, never having worked
with
> >
> >>>>>>>>>one.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>At
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>what track count would they sonically crap out?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>If I can't get some of my tedious little troubles with paris
> >>>>>>>>>resolved
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>I'm
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>considering switching to protools.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>jef
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>DJ wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>>>>> http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/WhitePaper_48BitMix er.pdf
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Any comments? It appears to me that the signals are recorded at
> > 24
> >>>>>>>>>>bit, then processed at whatever bit rate the plugin on the
channel
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>has,
> >>>>>>>>>>including dither, or not, then reprocessed to 24 bit, then these
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>channels
> >>>>>>>>>>are summed. I'm no guru when it comes to this stuff, but I get
> >>>>>>>>>>this
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>feeling
> >>>>>>>>>>that this reprocessing *per channel* is the reason the TDM
systems
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>seem
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>to
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>start sounding gnarly as more and more tracks are summed.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>Yep. Until a comparison is done in a *real world* scenario, everything is
more or less equal. Push the faders up to just below digital zero and *bits
is just bits*.
;o)
"Tony Benson" <tony@standinghampton.com> wrote in message
news:43bc0f44@linux...
> That's the beauty of PARIS. It's like an analog console with plugins and
> editing. You can push it and pull it and twist it and mold it without
worry.
> In the last year of working with DP I've learned just how cool PARIS
really
> is. Red lights in DP mean ouch. Red lights in PARIS mean things are
cookin'.
>
> Tony
>
>
> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
> news:43bc05f6@linux...
> > One thing that they didn't do on that DAW summing CD was to push the
> > respective systems. I think a lot more would have been revealed had
this
> > been done and Brian could have used the various gain staging options
> > available in Paris.
> >
> >
> > "LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:43bc03c4$1@linux...
> >>
> >> Agreed :)
> >> LaMont
> >>
> >> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >I wasn't thinking you were slamming SX or native stuff in general. In
> > fact,
> >> >in theory native mixes should sound better becuase of the necessary
> > latencies
> >> >in many hardware based computer systems. And I agree that different
> > sytstems
> >> >need to be worked differently to sound good--I think a lot of what
makes
> >> >PARIS sound good is that it takes abuse artfully, maybe even
> > aesthetically.
> >> >But I was shocked at how little difference there was on that DAW CD.
> >> >
> >> >TCB
> >> >
> >> >"La" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>Good Post Thad..
> >> >>
> >> >>My point was not to slam SX/Nuendo,but to say that:
> >> >>
> >> >>-Pro Toools Sounds good if not great.
> >> >>-(To Me) I have to work harder to get good mixes out of SX/Nuendo.
The
> >> >mixes
> >> >>end up sound ing great, but the work involved is not as easy(To me)
get
> >> >maximum
> >> >>results.
> >> >>Take care
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>I did the DAW summing CD thingy from what's his name in Nashville
and
> >> could
> >> >>>find basically zero difference in anything. Maybe I'm deaf, but if
you
> >> >were
> >> >>>to double blind me I don't think I could pick out individual mixes
> > consistently.
> >> >>>Since that was (if I recall) a 24 track mix that was big and loud
and
> >> R&B/rock/gospel
> >> >>>I would think that would argue against this idea. However, it's a
> > little
> >> >>>like the audiophile world sometimes where when the tests seem to
> > disprove
> >> >>>personal experience the test is faulted instead of the experience.
> > That's
> >> >>>fine, ears are very fine instruments and some are just better than
> > others.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>That said, I now work a good bit of my time in the finance world
where
> >> >fortunes
> >> >>>are made and lost according to the certitude of people in their
> > experiences
> >> >>>or mathmatical models. Over time this has lead me to believe more in
> > emperical
> >> >>>results than my experience. So if I do my own blind tests with the
> > Nashville
> >> >>>CD and can't generate statistically significant data that DAWs sound
> > different
> >> >>>then *I* will believe they sound the same. This could mean a flawed
> > test
> >> >>>or flawed ears but that's my belief until someone can present me
with
> >> more
> >> >>>convincing data.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>But hey, that's just me. I've also done mixes of 30+ tracks in SX
and
> >> think
> >> >>>they sound quite nice.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>TCB
> >> >>>
> >> >>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>Hey guys,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>I know that this is an old thread, but I have to disagree with
> > assessments
> >> >>>>on Pro Tools sound quality.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>First, I mix with Pro Tools HD at our Church's studio for major
> > release
> >> >>>Gospel
> >> >>>>Cds. Pro Tools HD sounds wonderful with low and high track counts
and
> >> >ITB
> >> >>>>(in the Box) or summed to the SSL,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>At my home studio, I have PT LE & Nuendo and while I love Nuendo's
> > elequent
> >> >>>>editing and nice soft sound, it's 32 bit floating mixer in a major
> > pain
> >> >>>in
> >> >>>>!@# to mix aggresive Rock, R &B, Hip hop with. Onthe other hand,
> > those
> >> >>>same
> >> >>>>mixes done in PT LE, have that sparkle and width. In Nuendo, after
30
> >> >tracks,
> >> >>>>things start's getting "smearded" and tracks levels tends to get
lost
> >> >or
> >> >>>>they don't sit right.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>However, in PT Le, (same songs, tracks are not smeared, levels stay
> > intacked,
> >> >>>>and the overall mix sounds very professional, just like mixes in
> > Paris..
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>Some local Engineer friends in the area( Motown), have been in
> > discussions
> >> >>>>about the state of current DAWs and what's working and what's not.
> > Opinions
> >> >>>>varied,but the one constant opinion that was stated was how
dificult
> >> it
> >> >>>was
> >> >>>>to mix in Cubase and Nuendo on mixes over 30 tracks. No matter what
> > i/o
> >> >>>converters(Apogee,Lucid,Motu,
> >> >>>>RME) mixing Rock , R&B, Hip-Hop is a dificult chore in
> > SX/Nuendo..Where
> >> >>>>as mixing in Paris and Pro Tools is not..
> >> >>>>Hey,Just one Engineer's opinon.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>P.S
> >> >>>>Jsut for geekdum sakes, the new Sonar 5 uses a newly coded 64 to
> > 32bit
> >> >>>floating
> >> >>>>point mixer..
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> >> >>>>>Yukkk,
> >> >>>>>Don't do it..PT I mean.
> >> >>>>>I've just been playing with PT M-Powered 6.8, using my Delta 1010,
> > and
> >> >>>I
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>>have to say...I don't like it.
> >> >>>>>The interface is (IMNSHO), horrible, confusing, and convoluted.
> >> >>>>>Moves that come easily in Paris, and more easily in Nuendo, are
> > tiresome
> >> >>>>in
> >> >>>>>PT, apart from the reagon tool...taht has always been good, right
> > from
> >> >>>the
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>>Session 8 days, but not much else.
> >> >>>>>And..it only plays .MOV video files, which in my case is a no-no,
> > (the
> >> >>>full
> >> >>>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pro tools summing bus revealed? [message #62402 is a reply to message #62397] |
Wed, 04 January 2006 10:23 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
>
> >> >>>>>TDM version may play the others but I don't think so).
> >> >>>>>To top it off, playing one of my projects from Nuendo,
> >> >>>>>(reassembled),
> >> >>it
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>>didn't have the "life" that the original had, by a long shot.
> >> >>>>>I repeat...don't go there, Jeff......
> >> >>>>>--
> >> >>>>>Martin Harrington
> >> >>>>>www.lendanear-sound.com
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>"jef knight" <thestudio@allknightmusic.com> wrote in message
> >> >>>>>news:436fce7a$1@linux...
> >> >>>>>>I just read the doc, thanks for posting the link. Much of it is
> > quite
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>>>interesting and just as much is confusing.
> >> >>>>>> I didn't know tdm systems sounded gnarly, never having worked
with
> >> >one.
> >> >>>>At
> >> >>>>>> what track count would they sonically crap out?
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> If I can't get some of my tedious little troubles with paris
> > resolved
> >> >>>>I'm
> >> >>>>>> considering switching to protools.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> jef
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> DJ wrote:
> >> >>>>>>
> >>
>>>>>>> http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/WhitePaper_48BitMix er.pdf
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>Any comments? It appears to me that the signals are recorded at
24
> >> >>>>>>>bit, then processed at whatever bit rate the plugin on the
channel
> >> >has,
> >> >>>>>>>including dither, or not, then reprocessed to 24 bit, then these
> > channels
> >> >>>>>>>are summed. I'm no guru when it comes to this stuff, but I get
> >> >>>>>>>this
> >> >>
> >> >>>>>>>feeling
> >> >>>>>>>that this reprocessing *per channel* is the reason the TDM
systems
> >> >seem
> >> >>>>to
> >> >>>>>>>start sounding gnarly as more and more tracks are summed.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>
>I have an XP 2600 barton core running on an Asrock Ks7xe+.
I've used this rig only a few times since new. The asrocks were
around $50 new.
I also have used the ECS K7s5a which has held up well. I went
ahead and performed the chipset modification by pulling off a
insulation taped cooling radiator block and glueing it back into
place with a dash of Artic Silver for effect (this was on the southbridge
chip and prevented overheating). If you are aware, many of the Athlon
cpu chips are shipped with this adhesive tape between the cooling block.
Either of these two mobos are ebay priced reasonable.
Regards,
El Miguel
"Edna" <edna@texomaonline.com> wrote in message news:43bc01b3@linux...
> Going to get another MB for my barton core 2500+ cpu. The ECS pile I had
> finally expired. Have been looking at possibly ASUS ABIT MSI Shuttle and
> EPOX. I can get a new feature loaded EPOX 8RDA3+ pretty reasonable or
look
> for the others used on ebay - prices in $70 range. Also can pick up a new
> nVidia FX5200 dual head video card cheap, or a MM G450 real cheap. The
> nVidia chipset boards have a little better performance, and I've had good
> luck with their video cards. Any tips on what works well or not with
> PARIS?
>
>Great question!
I remember one my first Sunday night chats; Andy and Sakis were
discussing the EDS comps.
Sakis gave a formula for and La2a mode.
I can't find it my files.
Please Sakis, can you remember this setting?
Regards,
El Miguel
"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:43bb1a69@linux...
> Anyone ever get this working? This is all the notes I have:
>
> Attack=1.5ms Release=150ms. Knee behaviour MUST be operated by the EQ
> (max 2 Bands) forcing the compressor to behave in "vintage" mode.You
> just have to figure out the ratio and the frequencies in the EQ.
>
> The compressors behaviour WILL get it's character form the Eq curves.I use the Frontier Tranzport for my remote overdubs and the DM24 for mixdown
(Mackie HUI mode).
David
On 29-Dec-2005, "Jon Jiles" <nono@nomo.com> wrote:
> OK all you SX3 to Paris lightpipers! What are you using as a control
> surface?Well, didn't Apple develop or share in the development of Firewire? I think
so. They probably built in some secret PC busting code just to get even. ;>)
Tony
"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
news:43bc133e@linux...
> >Flames away! ;>)
>
> sputter!!!!...gag!!!!!....(eyes bulging out of
> sockets).....errrrrr......actually, I think you're probably right. I've
> never had a good experience with FW on a PC. Ever.
>
> ;o)
>
> "Tony Benson" <tony@standinghampton.com> wrote in message
> news:43bc0cdd@linux...
>> My MOTU 828 Mk II has been rock solid for over a year now. I think Macs
> are
>> a little more robust in the Firewire department though. Flames away! ;>)
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:43bc04d5$1@linux...
>> >
>> > That's a common problem with a lot of Firewire audio units. A lot of my
>> > friend
>> > who have the Digi 002 units loses it's connections every now and then.
>> > very
>> > annoying to say the least.
>> >
>> > That's why I still prefer a PCI audio interface. Serial interfaces are
>> > finicky
>> > be it hard drives, mouses..
>> > LAD
>> >
>> > "Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>> >>FWIW, I grabbed the PT M Powered app demo and it loses my M Audio
> Firewire
>> >
>> >>Audiophile rather regularly - requiring a reboot.
>> >>AA
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
>> >>news:43bb0adb$1@linux...
>> >>> John,Look on the B&H site,
>> >>>
>> >>>
> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=search& ;Q=&b=1315&shs=&ci=9
> 576&ac=&Submit.x=17&Submit.y=12
>> >>>
>> >>> They have all the cards you'll need plus all the software.
>> >>> Buying any M-Audio product means you can buy PT M-Powered for around
>> >>> $300
>> >>> Martin Harrington
>> >>> www.lendanear-sound.com
>> >>>
>> >>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:43babdce@linux...
>> >>>> But how much money is it? And can it use VSTs ?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> LaMont wrote:
>> >>>>> Hey John,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I don't really know if LE has PDC, HD does. You can get 16 i/os in
> LE
>> >
>> >>>>> with
>> >>>>> the Follwoing Products:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -Digi 002(Rack)or not
>> >>>>> -M-Audio Project Mix I/O
>> >>>>> -FireWire 1814
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> All of the above units have a additional Adat ports. That way you
> can
>> >
>> >>>>> add
>> >>>>> 8 channels of I/O of your choice.
>> >>>>> LaMont
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> John <no@no.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>Does PT LE have autocompensation for plugs? How much can I get 16
>> >>>>>>I/Os
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>for ?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>LaMont wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>Hey guys,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>I know that this is an old thread, but I have to disagree with
>> >>>>>>>assessments
>> >>>>>>>on Pro Tools sound quality.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>First, I mix with Pro Tools HD at our Church's studio for major
>> >>>>>>>release
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Gospel
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>Cds. Pro Tools HD sounds wonderful with low and high track counts
> and
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ITB
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>(in the Box) or summed to the SSL,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>At my home studio, I have PT LE & Nuendo and while I love Nuendo's
>> >
>> >>>>>>>elequent
>> >>>>>>>editing and nice soft sound, it's 32 bit floating mixer in a major
>> > pain
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> in
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>!@# to mix aggresive Rock, R &B, Hip hop with. Onthe other hand,
>> >>>>>>>those
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> same
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>mixes done in PT LE, have that sparkle and width. In Nuendo, after
>> > 30
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> tracks,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>things start's getting "smearded" and tracks levels tends to get
> lost
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> or
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>they don't sit right.
>> >>>>>>>However, in PT Le, (same songs, tracks ar
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pro tools summing bus revealed? [message #62406 is a reply to message #62401] |
Wed, 04 January 2006 10:40 |
Tony Benson
Messages: 453
Registered: June 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
;>>Moves that come easily in Paris, and more easily in Nuendo, are
>> >>>>>>>>tiresome
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>in
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>PT, apart from the reagon tool...taht has always been good, right
>> > from
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>Session 8 days, but not much else.
>> >>>>>>>>And..it only plays .MOV video files, which in my case is a no-no,
>> > (the
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> full
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>TDM version may play the others but I don't think so).
>> >>>>>>>>To top it off, playing one of my projects from Nuendo,
>> >>>>>>>>(reassembled),
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> it
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>didn't have the "life" that the original had, by a long shot.
>> >>>>>>>>I repeat...don't go there, Jeff......
>> >>>>>>>>--
>> >>>>>>>>Martin Harrington
>> >>>>>>>>www.lendanear-sound.com
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>"jef knight" <thestudio@allknightmusic.com> wrote in message
>> >>>>>>>>news:436fce7a$1@linux...
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>I just read the doc, thanks for posting the link. Much of it is
>> >>>>>>>>>quite
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>interesting and just as much is confusing.
>> >>>>>>>>>I didn't know tdm systems sounded gnarly, never having worked
> with
>> >
>> >>>>>>>>>one.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>At
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>what track count would they sonically crap out?
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>If I can't get some of my tedious little troubles with paris
>> >>>>>>>>>resolved
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>I'm
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>considering switching to protools.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>jef
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>DJ wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/WhitePaper_48BitMix er.pdf
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>Any comments? It appears to me that the signals are recorded at
>> > 24
>> >>>>>>>>>>bit, then processed at whatever bit rate the plugin on the
> channel
>> >
>> >>>>>>>>>>has,
>> >>>>>>>>>>including dither, or not, then reprocessed to 24 bit, then
>> >>>>>>>>>>these
>> >
>> >>>>>>>>>>channels
>> >>>>>>>>>>are summed. I'm no guru when it comes to this stuff, but I get
>> >>>>>>>>>>this
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>feeling
>> >>>>>>>>>>that this reprocessing *per channel* is the reason the TDM
> systems
>> >
>> >>>>>>>>>>seem
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>to
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>start sounding gnarly as more and more tracks are summed.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>
>Pete, My wife and I just picked up a 40" Samsung LCD last month and am very
happy with the results so far. Here is what we based our desicion on:
1) CRT's max out at around 34-36". We needed a little bigger and the depth
would be an issue in our room. CRT's were out for us.
2) Projection TV's look fine in the store but tend to crap out when ambient
light gets too high. We have 5 double-hung windows in our TV room, so this
wasn't an option for us. All the variants, LCoS, LCD, or DLP suffer from
this brightness/contrast issue. In my opinion, they also don't look as nice
as CRTs, plasma, or LCD's where the image is viewed directly.
3) We ruled out plasma for a couple of reasons; longevity, energy efficiency,
and most importantly, GLARE! I have this wierd thing for screen glare.
The slightest reflection on my screen bugs me like a tell-tale heart. I
probably obsess over it a little to much, but there you go.
This basically left me with LCD (non projection) as my choice. LCD screens
are matte (like most LCD PC monitors), they use less energy than plasma,
they don't suffer from burn-in, and they are thin and light. The biggest
drawback is cost, with large LCD's costing about 30-50% more than plasma.
If I had to pick the best picture overall for any TV type, under ideal conditions
I would choose a plasma, which has slightly deeper blacks than an LCD. It's
not something that you really notice though unless you are looking side by
side.
Our Samsung was $2600 for a 40". It also has the PC VGA input which totally
rocks. There are more pixes on my TV than on my 15" widescreen laptop screen
(1366x768).
http://www.samsung.com/Products/TV/LCDTV/LNR408DXXAA.asp
Here is a couple of things to bear in mind: I've found that many stores
tweek the TV's to sell the ones they profit the most on. PC Richards was
selling two versions of the same Aquos LCD TV. The newer version differed
only in that it had a cable tuner card slot. The newer one was on sale for
$1000 less than the older one, but strangely the older more expensive one
looked much better. I confiremed with the manufacturer that these TV's differed
only in the cable card slot. Also, getting an HD TV is like getting a kick-ass
pair of studio monitors. Stuff that you thought sounded fine before is now
upsetting to listen too. Analog cable looks TERRIBLE on my new TV. My cable
provider delivers analog from channels 2-60, digital for 61-180, and HD digital
form 181 and up. The differences between the sources FAR outweigh the differences
you might see from model to model, or even between the competing TV technologies.
Hope this helps,
Chris
"Pete Ruthenburg" <ruthenburg@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> SO we've been using a 27" up til now.The wifey and I are
>thinking of getting a new tv.We started out looking at 30-32"
>tube HDTVs,but then the picture quality of the lcds started to
>wow us.
>
> Now I see you can get 42" projection DLP and Lcds for less than
>2 grand.So our budget has maybe doubled from what we were
>thinking at first.We just don't want to buy something then want
>something else a couple of years later.
>
> Anybody got some cool sets their running or have any advice.
>
>I'm really eyeing the Sony 42" projection LCD pretty good right
>now.
>
>TIA,
>PeteThanks JB..
"JB" <no@mail.com> wrote:
>It's a nice unit and pretty versitile as a bus comp. It can get a little
>dirty on a full mix, and it does some wierd stuff on drum overheads. I
>usually use it on the kick/snare/tom bus and add the OHs uncompressed. It's
>also nice on a vocal bus if you're looking for some grunge. I generally
use
>the drawmer 1968 on the mix bus.
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:43bb5798$1@linux...
>>
>> Hey Guys,
>>
>> Is anyone using a Fatso unit? If, what do like about it and what does
it
>> do for your mixes? Thanks
>
>I tend to agree with you here. My guess is that Windows interupts are the
problem (as per usual).
"Tony Benson" <tony@standinghampton.com> wrote:
>My MOTU 828 Mk II has been rock solid for over a year now. I think Macs
are
>a little more robust in the Firewire department though. Flames away! ;>)
>
>Tony
>
>
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:43bc04d5$1@linux...
>>
>> That's a common problem with a lot of Firewire audio units. A lot of my
>> friend
>> who have the Digi 002 units loses it's connections every now and then.
>> very
>> annoying to say the least.
>>
>> That's why I still prefer a PCI audio interface. Serial interfaces are
>> finicky
>> be it hard drives, mouses..
>> LAD
>>
>> "Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>>FWIW, I grabbed the PT M Powered app demo and it loses my M Audio Firewire
>>
>>>Audiophile rather regularly - requiring a reboot.
>>>AA
>>>
>>>
>>>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
>>>news:43bb0adb$1@linux...
>>>> John,Look on the B&H site,
>>>>
>>>> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=search& ;Q=&b=1315&shs=&ci=9576&ac=&Submit.x=17& amp;Submit.y=12
>>>>
>>>> They have all the cards you'll need plus all the software.
>>>> Buying any M-Audio product means you can buy PT M-Powered for around
>>>> $300
>>>> Martin Harrington
>>>> www.lendanear-sound.com
>>>>
>>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:43babdce@linux...
>>>>> But how much money is it? And can it use VSTs ?
>>>>>
>>>>> LaMont wrote:
>>>>>> Hey John,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't really know if LE has PDC, HD does. You can get 16 i/os in
LE
>>
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> the Follwoing Products:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Digi 002(Rack)or not
>>>>>> -M-Audio Project Mix I/O
>>>>>> -FireWire 1814
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All of the above units have a additional Adat ports. That way you
can
>>
>>>>>> add
>>>>>> 8 channels of I/O of your choice.
>>>>>> LaMont
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Does PT LE have autocompensation for plugs? How much can I get 16
>>>>>>>I/Os
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>for ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>LaMont wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hey guys,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I know that this is an old thread, but I have to disagree with
>>>>>>>>assessments
>>>>>>>>on Pro Tools sound quality.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>First, I mix with Pro Tools HD at our Church's studio for major
>>>>>>>>release
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gospel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Cds. Pro Tools HD sounds wonderful with low and high track counts
and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ITB
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>(in the Box) or summed to the SSL,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>At my home studio, I have PT LE & Nuendo and while I love Nuendo's
>>
>>>>>>>>elequent
>>>>>>>>editing and nice soft sound, it's 32 bit floating mixer in a major
>> pain
>>>>>>
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>!@# to mix aggresive Rock, R &B, Hip hop with. Onthe other hand,
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pro tools summing bus revealed? [message #62409 is a reply to message #62395] |
Wed, 04 January 2006 12:04 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
;>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"jef knight" <thestudio@allknightmusic.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>news:436fce7a$1@linux...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I just read the doc, thanks for posting the link. Much of it is
>>>>>>>>>>quite
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>interesting and just as much is confusing.
>>>>>>>>>>I didn't know tdm systems sounded gnarly, never having worked with
>>
>>>>>>>>>>one.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>At
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>what track count would they sonically crap out?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>If I can't get some of my tedious little troubles with paris
>>>>>>>>>>resolved
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I'm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>considering switching to protools.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>jef
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>DJ wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/WhitePaper_48BitMix er.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Any comments? It appears to me that the signals are recorded at
>> 24
>>>>>>>>>>>bit, then processed at whatever bit rate the plugin on the channel
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>has,
>>>>>>>>>>>including dither, or not, then reprocessed to 24 bit, then these
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>channels
>>>>>>>>>>>are summed. I'm no guru when it comes to this stuff, but I get
>>>>>>>>>>>this
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>feeling
>>>>>>>>>>>that this reprocessing *per channel* is the reason the TDM systems
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>seem
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>start sounding gnarly as more and more tracks are summed.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>agreed
LaMont wrote:
> I tend to agree with you here. My guess is that Windows interupts are the
> problem (as per usual).
>
> "Tony Benson" <tony@standinghampton.com> wrote:
>
>>My MOTU 828 Mk II has been rock solid for over a year now. I think Macs
>
> are
>
>>a little more robust in the Firewire department though. Flames away! ;>)
>>
>>Tony
>>
>>
>>
>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:43bc04d5$1@linux...
>>
>>>That's a common problem with a lot of Firewire audio units. A lot of my
>
>
>>>friend
>>>who have the Digi 002 units loses it's connections every now and then.
>
>
>>>very
>>>annoying to say the least.
>>>
>>>That's why I still prefer a PCI audio interface. Serial interfaces are
>
>
>>>finicky
>>>be it hard drives, mouses..
>>>LAD
>>>
>>>"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>>
>>>>FWIW, I grabbed the PT M Powered app demo and it loses my M Audio Firewire
>>>
>>>>Audiophile rather regularly - requiring a reboot.
>>>>AA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
>>>>news:43bb0adb$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>>>John,Look on the B&H site,
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=search& ;Q=&b=1315&shs=&ci=9576&ac=&Submit.x=17& amp;Submit.y=12
>>>>>
>>>>>They have all the cards you'll need plus all the software.
>>>>>Buying any M-Audio product means you can buy PT M-Powered for around
>
>
>>>>>$300
>>>>>Martin Harrington
>>>>>www.lendanear-sound.com
>>>>>
>>>>>"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:43babdce@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>>>But how much money is it? And can it use VSTs ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>LaMont wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hey John,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I don't really know if LE has PDC, HD does. You can get 16 i/os in
>
> LE
>
>>>>>>>with
>>>>>>>the Follwoing Products:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>-Digi 002(Rack)or not
>>>>>>>-M-Audio Project Mix I/O
>>>>>>>-FireWire 1814
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>All of the above units have a additional Adat ports. That way you
>
> can
>
>>>>>>>add
>>>>>>>8 channels of I/O of your choice.
>>>>>>>LaMont
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>John <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Does PT LE have autocompensation for plugs? How much can I get 16
>
>
>>>>>>>>I/Os
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>for ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>LaMont wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Hey guys,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I know that this is an old thread, but I have to disagree with
>>>>>>>>>assessments
>>>>>>>>>on Pro Tools sound quality.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>First, I mix with Pro Tools HD at our Church's studio for major
>>>>>>>>>release
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Gospel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Cds. Pro Tools HD sounds wonderful with low and high track counts
>
> and
>
>>>>>>>ITB
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>(in the Box) or summed to the SSL,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>At my home studio, I have PT LE & Nuendo and while I love Nuendo's
>>>
>>>>>>>>>elequent
>>>>>>>>>editing and nice soft sound, it's 32 bit floating mixer in a major
>>>
>>>pain
>>>
>>>>>>>in
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>!@# to mix aggresive Rock, R &B, Hip hop with. Onthe other hand,
>
>
>>>>>>>>>those
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>same
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>mixes done in PT LE, have that sparkle and width. In Nuendo, after
>>>
>>>30
>>>
>>>>>>>tracks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>things start's getting "smearded" and tracks levels tends to get
>
> lost
>
>>>>>>>or
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>they don't sit right.
>>>>>>>>>However, in PT Le, (same songs, tracks are not smeared, levels stay
>>>
>>>>>>>>>intacked,
>>>>>>>>>and the overall mix sounds very professional, just like mixes in
>>>>>>>>>Paris..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Some local Engineer friends in the area( Motown), have been in
>>>>>>>>>discussions
>>>>>>>>>about the state of current DAWs and what's working and what's not.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>Opinions
>>>>>>>>>varied,but the one constant opinion that was stated was how dificult
>>>
>>>it
>>>
>>>>>>>was
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>to mix in Cubase and Nuendo on mixes over 30 tracks. No matter what
>>>
>>>i/o
>>>
>>>>>>>converters(Apogee,Lucid,Motu,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>RME) mixing Rock , R&B, Hip-Hop is a dificult chore in
>>>>>>>>>SX/Nuendo..Where
>>>>>>>>>as mixing in Paris and Pro Tools is not.. Hey,Just one Engineer's
>>>>>>>>>opinon.
>>>>>>>>>P.S
>>>>>>>>>Jsut for geekdum sakes, the new Sonar 5 uses a newly coded 64 to
>
>
>>>>>>>>>32bit
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>floating
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>point mixer..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Yukkk,
>>>>>>>>>>Don't do it..PT I mean.
>>>>>>>>>>I've just been playing with PT M-Powered 6.8, using my Delta 1010,
>>>
>>>and
>>>
>>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>have to say...I don't like it.
>>>>>>>>>>The interface is (IMNSHO), horrible, confusing, and convoluted.
>>>>>>>>>>Moves that come easily in Paris, and more easily in Nuendo, are
>>>>>>>>>>tiresome
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>in
>>>>>>>>&
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pro tools summing bus revealed? [message #62410 is a reply to message #62409] |
Wed, 04 January 2006 11:13 |
John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
gt;
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>PT, apart from the reagon tool...taht has always been good, right
>>>
>>>from
>>>
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Session 8 days, but not much else.
>>>>>>>>>>And..it only plays .MOV video files, which in my case is a no-no,
>>>
>>>(the
>>>
>>>>>>>full
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>TDM version may play the others but I don't think so).
>>>>>>>>>>To top it off, playing one of my projects from Nuendo,
>>>>>>>>>>(reassembled),
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>didn't have the "life" that the original had, by a long shot.
>>>>>>>>>>I repeat...don't go there, Jeff......
>>>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>>>Martin Harrington
>>>>>>>>>>www.lendanear-sound.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"jef knight" <thestudio@allknightmusic.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>news:436fce7a$1@linux...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>I just read the doc, thanks for posting the link. Much of it is
>
>
>>>>>>>>>>>quite
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>interesting and just as much is confusing.
>>>>>>>>>>>I didn't know tdm systems sounded gnarly, never having worked with
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>one.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>At
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>what track count would they sonically crap out?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>If I can't get some of my tedious little troubles with paris
>>>>>>>>>>>resolved
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I'm
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>considering switching to protools.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>jef
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>DJ wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/WhitePaper_48BitMix er.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Any comments? It appears to me that the signals are recorded at
>>>
>>>24
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>bit, then processed at whatever bit rate the plugin on the channel
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>has,
>>>>>>>>>>>>including dither, or not, then reprocessed to 24 bit, then these
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>channels
>>>>>>>>>>>>are summed. I'm no guru when it comes to this stuff, but I get
>
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>this
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>feeling
>>>>>>>>>>>>that this reprocessing *per channel* is the reason the TDM systems
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>seem
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>start sounding gnarly as more and more tracks are summed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>Guys, this speaks to the PT DVD by Charles Dye "Mix it like a Record". Great
DVD by the way.
Charles spends a great deal of time discussing the great uses of "Distortion"
and digital recording. Long story short, he states that to make digtal mixes
sound like it's being mix on an anologe console was to add in various types
of 'distortion'.
http://www.harddisklife.com/ (look under the trailer section)
Well well, lokkie here. It seems that those guys at old Ensoniq new about
this theory when they modeling the Paris Harware. I'm not a techie, but I
do recall that PAris's secret sauce in in it's Harware's ability to iduce
harmonic distortion by lowing it's sampling bit rate. Well well, now we all
these Plugins that mimicks that feat.
I don't know about you guys, but evertime I try to distance myselft from
my 4 card system, reavalations like above, confirms what we've been hearing
since `1997. Wow..
If Edmund could just:
-Delete the sequencer
-Add in PDC for Vst/X plugins
-Allow VSt/DX plugs on each submix and master sub
-On the fly gapless recording (Like PT & SX)
This would be a Dream DAW.. I'll let Steinberg & Emagic do the VSTi thing..
"Tony Benson" <tony@standinghampton.com> wrote:
>That's the beauty of PARIS. It's like an analog console with plugins and
>editing. You can push it and pull it and twist it and mold it without worry.
>In the last year of working with DP I've learned just how cool PARIS really
>is. Red lights in DP mean ouch. Red lights in PARIS mean things are cookin'.
>
>Tony
>
>
>"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
>news:43bc05f6@linux...
>> One thing that they didn't do on that DAW summing CD was to push the
>> respective systems. I think a lot more would have been revealed had this
>> been done and Brian could have used the various gain staging options
>> available in Paris.
>>
>>
>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:43bc03c4$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Agreed :)
>>> LaMont
>>>
>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >I wasn't thinking you were slamming SX or native stuff in general. In
>> fact,
>>> >in theory native mixes should sound better becuase of the necessary
>> latencies
>>> >in many hardware based computer systems. And I agree that different
>> sytstems
>>> >need to be worked differently to sound good--I think a lot of what makes
>>> >PARIS sound good is that it takes abuse artfully, maybe even
>> aesthetically.
>>> >But I was shocked at how little difference there was on that DAW CD.
>>> >
>>> >TCB
>>> >
>>> >"La" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>Good Post Thad..
>>> >>
>>> >>My point was not to slam SX/Nuendo,but to say that:
>>> >>
>>> >>-Pro Toools Sounds good if not great.
>>> >>-(To Me) I have to work harder to get good mixes out of SX/Nuendo.
The
>>> >mixes
>>> >>end up sound ing great, but the work involved is not as easy(To me)
get
>>> >maximum
>>> >>results.
>>> >>Take care
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>I did the DAW summing CD thingy from what's his name in Nashville
and
>>> could
>>> >>>find basically zero difference in anything. Maybe I'm deaf, but if
you
>>> >were
>>> >>>to double blind me I don't think I could pick out individual mixes
>> consistently.
>>> >>>Since that was (if I recall) a 24 track mix that was big and loud
and
>>> R&B/rock/gospel
>>> >>>I would think that would argue against this idea. However, it's a
>> little
>>> >>>like the audiophile world sometimes where when the tests seem to
>> disprove
>>> >>>personal experience the test is faulted instead of the experience.
>> That's
>>> >>>fine, ears are very fine instruments and some are just better than
>> others.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>That said, I now work a good bit of my time in the finance world where
>>> >fortunes
>>> >>>are made and lost according to the certitude of people in their
>> experiences
>>> >>>or mathmatical models. Over time this has lead me to believe more
in
>> emperical
>>> >>>results than my experience. So if I do my own blind tests with the
>> Nashville
>>> >>>CD and can't generate statistically significant data that DAWs sound
>> different
>>> >>>then *I* will believe they sound the same. This could mean a flawed
>> test
>>> >>>or flawed ears but that's my belief until someone can present me with
>>> more
>>> >>>convincing data.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>But hey, that's just me. I've also done mixes of 30+ tracks in SX
and
>>> think
>>> >>>they sound quite nice.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>TCB
>>> >>>
>>> >>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>Hey guys,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>I know that this is an old thread, but I have to disagree with
>> assessments
>>> >>>>on Pro Tools sound quality.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>First, I mix with Pro Tools HD at our Church's studio for major
>> release
>>> >>>Gospel
>>> >>>>Cds. Pro Tools HD sounds wonderful with low and high track counts
and
>>> >ITB
>>> >>>>(in the Box) or summed to the SSL,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>At my home studio, I have PT LE & Nuendo and while I love Nuendo's
>> elequent
>>> >>>>editing and nice soft sound, it's 32 bit floating mixer in a major
>> pain
>>> >>>in
>>> >>>>!@# to mix aggresive Rock, R &B, Hip hop with. Onthe other hand,
>> those
>>> >>>same
>>> >>>>mixes done in PT LE, have that sparkle and width. In Nuendo, after
30
>>> >tracks,
>>> >>>>things start's getting "smearded" and tracks levels tends to get
lost
>>> >or
>>> >>>>they don't sit right.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>However, in PT Le, (same songs, tracks are not smeared, levels stay
>> intacked,
>>> >>>>and the overall mix sounds very professional, just like mixes in
>> Paris..
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>Some local Engineer friends in the area( Motown), have been in
>> discussions
>>> >>>>about the state of current DAWs and what's working and what's not.
>> Opinions
>>> >>>>varied,but the one constant opinion that was stated was how dificult
>>> it
>>> >>>was
>>> >>>>to mix in Cubase and Nuendo on mixes over 30 tracks. No matter what
>> i/o
>>> >>>converters(Apogee,Lucid,Motu,
>>> >>>>RME) mixing Rock , R&B, Hip-Hop is a dificult chore in
>> SX/Nuendo..Where
>>> >>>>as mixing in Paris and Pro Tools is not..
>>> >>>>Hey,Just one Engineer's opinon.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>P.S
>>> >>>>Jsut for geekdum sakes, the new Sonar 5 uses a newly coded 64 to
>> 32bit
>>> >>>floating
>>> >>>>point mixer..
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>> >>>>>Yukkk,
>>> >>>>>Don't do it..PT I mean.
>>> >>>>>I've just been playing with
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pro tools summing bus revealed? Mix it like A Record [message #62411 is a reply to message #62397] |
Wed, 04 January 2006 12:26 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
PT M-Powered 6.8, using my Delta 1010,
>> and
>>> >>>I
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>have to say...I don't like it.
>>> >>>>>The interface is (IMNSHO), horrible, confusing, and convoluted.
>>> >>>>>Moves that come easily in Paris, and more easily in Nuendo, are
>> tiresome
>>> >>>>in
>>> >>>>>PT, apart from the reagon tool...taht has always been good, right
>> from
>>> >>>the
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>Session 8 days, but not much else.
>>> >>>>>And..it only plays .MOV video files, which in my case is a no-no,
>> (the
>>> >>>full
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>TDM version may play the others but I don't think so).
>>> >>>>>To top it off, playing one of my projects from Nuendo,
>>> >>>>>(reassembled),
>>> >>it
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>didn't have the "life" that the original had, by a long shot.
>>> >>>>>I repeat...don't go there, Jeff......
>>> >>>>>--
>>> >>>>>Martin Harrington
>>> >>>>>www.lendanear-sound.com
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>"jef knight" <thestudio@allknightmusic.com> wrote in message
>>> >>>>>news:436fce7a$1@linux...
>>> >>>>>>I just read the doc, thanks for posting the link. Much of it is
>> quite
>>> >>>
>>> >>>>>>interesting and just as much is confusing.
>>> >>>>>> I didn't know tdm systems sounded gnarly, never having worked
with
>>> >one.
>>> >>>>At
>>> >>>>>> what track count would they sonically crap out?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> If I can't get some of my tedious little troubles with paris
>> resolved
>>> >>>>I'm
>>> >>>>>> considering switching to protools.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> jef
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/WhitePaper_48BitMix er.pdf
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>Any comments? It appears to me that the signals are recorded at
24
>>> >>>>>>>bit, then processed at whatever bit rate the plugin on the channel
>>> >has,
>>> >>>>>>>including dither, or not, then reprocessed to 24 bit, then these
>> channels
>>> >>>>>>>are summed. I'm no guru when it comes to this stuff, but I get
>>> >>>>>>>this
>>> >>
>>> >>>>>>>feeling
>>> >>>>>>>that this reprocessing *per channel* is the reason the TDM systems
>>> >seem
>>> >>>>to
>>> >>>>>>>start sounding gnarly as more and more tracks are summed.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>
>I was just testng some mic pres at my local GC. Long story short, the Mackie
Onyx Mic pres are very very good. second best (at that store) to the UAD
610. It blew away the trident, presonus, and Focusrite Octo Pre.
The Onyx has nice round, not tuby warm,sound without traces of brittle to
be found. There new line of products are an amazing value.
"Tony Benson" <tony@standinghampton.com> wrote:
>Rod,
>
>I've read really good stuff about the True Systems 8 channel unit, but I'm
>not sure if it has lightpipe. A friend of mine who runs a Nuendo system
>actually thinks the new Mackie Onyx 8 channel unit sounded pretty good for
>the money. I haven't heard it yet myself, but he said it was clean and
>didn't color the sound to ears. He's one of the few people I personally
know
>who's ears I respect, for what it's worth. Some ideas there anyway.
>
>Tony
>
>
>"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@kc.rr.com> wrote in message news:43bc0147$1@linux...
>>
>> I've got a friend/client who's looking for an 8 channel mic pre that has
>> lightpipe/spdif
>> outs. He's running a digi 002 rig and wants to bypass the digi A/D stage.
>> He wants it to be good, but affordability is a concern. He was looking
a
>> a presonus digimax LT, but I saw that Aaron had some experience with those
>> and wasn't that hot on them.
>> Right now his chain is a Mackie 1402 vlz into the Digi 002.
>> Any suggestions?
>> TIA
>> Rod
>
>I have that DVD. Once I got past the over the top production (parts of that
DVD actually make me dizzy!), I was able to gleam a few cool ideas. And yes,
he inserts a tube/tape emulation plug on virtually every channel. I did
really like his Kick drum gate trick. It's probably DAW 101 for you guys,
but my little brain needs those hints. Anyway, I think I could actually grow
to like Protools if I had his setup. If only I had a spare quarter mil
laying around somewhere. ;>)
Tony
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:43bc2176$1@linux...
>
> Guys, this speaks to the PT DVD by Charles Dye "Mix it like a Record".
> Great
> DVD by the way.
>
> Charles spends a great deal of time discussing the great uses of
> "Distortion"
> and digital recording. Long story short, he states that to make digtal
> mixes
> sound like it's being mix on an anologe console was to add in various
> types
> of 'distortion'.
> http://www.harddisklife.com/ (look under the trailer section)
>
> Well well, lokkie here. It seems that those guys at old Ensoniq new about
> this theory when they modeling the Paris Harware. I'm not a techie, but I
> do recall that PAris's secret sauce in in it's Harware's ability to iduce
> harmonic distortion by lowing it's sampling bit rate. Well well, now we
> all
> these Plugins that mimicks that feat.
>
> I don't know about you guys, but evertime I try to distance myselft from
> my 4 card system, reavalations like above, confirms what we've been
> hearing
> since `1997. Wow..
>
> If Edmund could just:
>
> -Delete the sequencer
> -Add in PDC for Vst/X plugins
> -Allow VSt/DX plugs on each submix and master sub
> -On the fly gapless recording (Like PT & SX)
> This would be a Dream DAW.. I'll let Steinberg & Emagic do the VSTi
> thing..
>
>
>
>
>
> "Tony Benson" <tony@standinghampton.com> wrote:
>>That's the beauty of PARIS. It's like an analog console with plugins and
>
>>editing. You can push it and pull it and twist it and mold it without
>>worry.
>
>>In the last year of working with DP I've learned just how cool PARIS
>>really
>
>>is. Red lights in DP mean ouch. Red lights in PARIS mean things are
>>cookin'.
>>
>>Tony
>>
>>
>>"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
>>news:43bc05f6@linux...
>>> One thing that they didn't do on that DAW summing CD was to push the
>>> respective systems. I think a lot more would have been revealed had
>>> this
>>> been done and Brian could have used the various gain staging options
>>> available in Paris.
>>>
>>>
>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message
>>> news:43bc03c4$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> Agreed :)
>>>> LaMont
>>>>
>>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >I wasn't thinking you were slamming SX or native stuff in general. In
>>> fact,
>>>> >in theory native mixes should sound better becuase of the necessary
>>> latencies
>>>> >in many hardware based computer systems. And I agree that different
>>> sytstems
>>>> >need to be worked differently to sound good--I think a lot of what
>>>> >makes
>>>> >PARIS sound good is that it takes abuse artfully, maybe even
>>> aesthetically.
>>>> >But I was shocked at how little difference there was on that DAW CD.
>>>> >
>>>> >TCB
>>>> >
>>>> >"La" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Good Post Thad..
>>>> >>
>>>> >>My point was not to slam SX/Nuendo,but to say that:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>-Pro Toools Sounds good if not great.
>>>> >>-(To Me) I have to work harder to get good mixes out of SX/Nuendo.
> The
>>>> >mixes
>>>> >>end up sound ing great, but the work involved is not as easy(To me)
> get
>>>> >maximum
>>>> >>results.
>>>> >>Take care
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>I did the DAW summing CD thingy from what's his name in Nashville
> and
>>>> could
>>>> >>>find basically zero difference in anything. Maybe I'm deaf, but if
> you
>>>> >were
>>>> >>>to double blind me I don't think I could pick out individual mixes
>>> consistently.
>>>> >>>Since that was (if I recall) a 24 track mix that was big and loud
> and
>>>> R&B/rock/gospel
>>>> >>>I would think that would argue against this idea. However, it's a
>>> little
>>>> >>>like the audiophile world sometimes where when the tests seem to
>>> disprove
>>>> >>>personal experience the test is faulted instead of the experience.
>>> That's
>>>> >>>fine, ears are very fine instruments and some are just better than
>>> others.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>That said, I now work a good bit of my time in the finance world
>>>> >>>where
>>>> >fortunes
>>>> >>>are made and lost according to the certitude of people in their
>>> experiences
>>>> >>>or mathmatical models. Over time this has lead me to believe more
> in
>>> emperical
>>>> >>>results than my experience. So if I do my own blind tests with the
>>> Nashville
>>>> >>>CD and can't generate statistically significant data that DAWs sound
>>> different
>>>> >>>then *I* will believe they sound the same. This could mean a flawed
>>> test
>>>> >>>or flawed ears but that's my belief until someone can present me
>>>> >>>with
>>>> more
>>>> >>>convincing data.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>But hey, that's just me. I've also done mixes of 30+ tracks in SX
> and
>>>> think
>>>> >>>they sound quite nice.
>>>> >>>
&g
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pro tools summing bus revealed? Mix it like A Record [message #62413 is a reply to message #62411] |
Wed, 04 January 2006 11:42 |
Tony Benson
Messages: 453
Registered: June 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
(same songs, tracks are not smeared, levels stay
>>> intacked,
>>>> >>>>and the overall mix sounds very professional, just like mixes in
>>> Paris..
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>Some local Engineer friends in the area( Motown), have been in
>>> discussions
>>>> >>>>about the state of current DAWs and what's working and what's not.
>>> Opinions
>>>> >>>>varied,but the one constant opinion that was stated was how
>>>> >>>>dificult
>>>> it
>>>> >>>was
>>>> >>>>to mix in Cubase and Nuendo on mixes over 30 tracks. No matter what
>>> i/o
>>>> >>>converters(Apogee,Lucid,Motu,
>>>> >>>>RME) mixing Rock , R&B, Hip-Hop is a dificult chore in
>>> SX/Nuendo..Where
>>>> >>>>as mixing in Paris and Pro Tools is not..
>>>> >>>>Hey,Just one Engineer's opinon.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>P.S
>>>> >>>>Jsut for geekdum sakes, the new Sonar 5 uses a newly coded 64 to
>>> 32bit
>>>> >>>floating
>>>> >>>>point mixer..
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>Yukkk,
>>>> >>>>>Don't do it..PT I mean.
>>>> >>>>>I've just been playing with PT M-Powered 6.8, using my Delta 1010,
>>> and
>>>> >>>I
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>>have to say...I don't like it.
>>>> >>>>>The interface is (IMNSHO), horrible, confusing, and convoluted.
>>>> >>>>>Moves that come easily in Paris, and more easily in Nuendo, are
>>> tiresome
>>>> >>>>in
>>>> >>>>>PT, apart from the reagon tool...taht has always been good, right
>>> from
>>>> >>>the
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>>Session 8 days, but not much else.
>>>> >>>>>And..it only plays .MOV video files, which in my case is a no-no,
>>> (the
>>>> >>>full
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>>TDM version may play the others but I don't think so).
>>>> >>>>>To top it off, playing one of my projects from Nuendo,
>>>> >>>>>(reassembled),
>>>> >>it
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>>didn't have the "life" that the original had, by a long shot.
>>>> >>>>>I repeat...don't go there, Jeff......
>>>> >>>>>--
>>>> >>>>>Martin Harrington
>>>> >>>>>www.lendanear-sound.com
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>"jef knight" <thestudio@allknightmusic.com> wrote in message
>>>> >>>>>news:436fce7a$1@linux...
>>>> >>>>>>I just read the doc, thanks for posting the link. Much of it is
>>> quite
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>>>>interesting and just as much is confusing.
>>>> >>>>>> I didn't know tdm systems sounded gnarly, never having worked
> with
>>>> >one.
>>>> >>>>At
>>>> >>>>>> what track count would they sonically crap out?
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> If I can't get some of my tedious little troubles with paris
>>> resolved
>>>> >>>>I'm
>>>> >>>>>> considering switching to protools.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> jef
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/WhitePaper_48BitMix er.pdf
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>Any comments? It appears to me that the signals are recorded at
> 24
>>>> >>>>>>>bit, then processed at whatever bit rate the plugin on the
>>>> >>>>>>>channel
>>>> >has,
>>>> >>>>>>>including dither, or not, then reprocessed to 24 bit, then these
>>> channels
>>>> >>>>>>>are summed. I'm no guru when it comes to this stuff, but I get
>
>>>> >>>>>>>this
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>>>>feeling
>>>> >>>>>>>that this reprocessing *per channel* is the reason the TDM
>>>> >>>>>>>systems
>>>> >seem
>>>> >>>>to
>>>> >>>>>>>start sounding gnarly as more and more tracks are summed.
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>Yes, I noticed the X version - at half the price. The other US site has the
LAN version for $79 ($149 at the first site). Is the LAN setup something
you find very usefull in your setup?
Thanks
"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
news:43bc1278@linux...
> Also.....if you don't need Gigabit LAN or SATA, the A7V8X-X mobo will work
> fine for you.
>
> Deej
>
> "Edna" <edna@texomaonline.com> wrote in message news:43bc0d6c@linux...
> > I've never used EPOX, but its the only new name board I could find.
Great
> > reviews on it. At Newegg with 2yr mfg warranty. Did you ever try it
with
> a
> > different video card? I will check out ebay for the Via chipset asus.
> > Thanks
> >
> > "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
> > news:43bc0a80@linux...
> > > I tried the EPOX 8RDA+ and had a terrible time with it on a larger
> system
> > > with Matrox video cards. Erling has had good luck with this mobo. I am
> > still
> > > using an ASUS A7V8X-LAN mobo with my Paris system with an AMD XP2800
> CPU.
> > > It's the most stable Paris DAW I've ever built. Highly recommended
here.
> > >
> > > Deej
> > >
> > > "Edna" <edna@texomaonline.com> wrote in message news:43bc01b3@linux...
> > > > Going to get another MB for my barton core 2500+ cpu. The ECS pile
I
> > had
> > > > finally expired. Have been looking at possibly ASUS ABIT MSI
Shuttle
> > and
> > > > EPOX. I can get a new feature loaded EPOX 8RDA3+ pretty reasonable
or
> > > look
> > > > for the others used on ebay - prices in $70 range. Also can pick up
a
> > new
> > > > nVidia FX5200 dual head video card cheap, or a MM G450 real cheap.
> The
> > > > nVidia chipset boards have a little better performance, and I've had
> > good
> > > > luck with their video cards. Any tips on what works well or not
with
> > > > PARIS?
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>We are using octopre with adat card, it is working great
I use the analog outs to paris while my friend is using the adat card to
his digi-002
Hope it helps
Jorsi
"EK Sound" <spamnot.info@eksoundNO.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:43bc0326$1@linux...
> Look for a used Focusrite Octopre with the adat card.
>
> David.
>
> Rod Lincoln wrote:
>
>> I've got a friend/client who's looking for an 8 channel mic pre that has
>> lightpipe/spdif
>> outs. He's running a digi 002 rig and wants to bypass the digi A/D stage.
>> He wants it to be good, but affordability is a concern. He was looking a
>> a presonus digimax LT, but I saw that Aaron had some experience with
>> those
>> and wasn't that hot on them.
>> Right now his chain is a Mackie 1402 vlz into the Digi 002.
>> Any suggestions?
>> TIA
>> Rodhttp://www.thinksecret.com/news/finalcut6.htmlThanks for the info. Yes, I know about the tape. I have been using Athlons
and Durons for some time now. The ECS board I got, K7VTA3, from FRYS with
the Barton 2500+ was really buggy and I was sorta glad to see it expedited
to another dimension. I think the AGP died, but havent tried it with a PCI
VC. (It was only $69 with the cpu, so didnt feel too cheated.) A friend
who went to work there told me Frys had over an 80% return rate with ECS
(just used as a c'mon to get people in the door), so I don't feel to
positive about them. And with PARIS I don't need any extra bugs! : )
Not familiar with or seen any reviews of asrock.
"Miguel Vigil" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:43bc1572@linux...
> I have an XP 2600 barton core running on an Asrock Ks7xe+.
> I've used this rig only a few times since new. The asrocks were
> around $50 new.
>
> I also have used the ECS K7s5a which has held up well. I went
> ahead and performed the chipset modification by pulling off a
> insulation taped cooling radiator block and glueing it back into
> place with a dash of Artic Silver for effect (this was on the southbridge
> chip and prevented overheating). If you are aware, many of the Athlon
> cpu chips are shipped with this adhesive tape between the cooling block.
>
> Either of these two mobos are ebay priced reasonable.
>
> Regards,
>
> El Miguel
>
>
>
>
> "Edna" <edna@texomaonline.com> wrote in message news:43bc01b3@linux...
> > Going to get another MB for my barton core 2500+ cpu. The ECS pile I
had
> > finally expired. Have been looking at possibly ASUS ABIT MSI Shuttle
and
> > EPOX. I can get a new feature loaded EPOX 8RDA3+ pretty reasonable or
> look
> > for the others used on ebay - prices in $70 range. Also can pick up a
new
> > nVidia FX5200 dual head video card cheap, or a MM G450 real cheap. The
> > nVidia chipset boards have a little better performance, and I've had
good
> > luck with their video cards. Any tips on what works well or not with
> > PARIS?
> >
> >
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>http://www.thinksecret.com/news/finalcut6.html
I wanta get me a couple of these new fancy 4K cameras, they only cost 200K.
Ya think they'll have em on sale soon at Best Buy???jef knight <thestudio@allknightmusic.com> wrote:
>We us a fatso unit in the band. She's our videographer.
Hehe, well it was hanging there like a booga dripping from a nose...He moved last month. :-(
"Jeremy Luzier" <j.luzier@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:43bac4b5@linux...
>
>Alvin's cousin?
What's his take on Christmas tunes?
MR
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:43bb79e9$1@linux...
>
>Haven't seen one of these new in a while...
http://www.music123.com/Ensoniq-PARIS3-i228172.musicIs everyone clear on how easy Automation is? It's really so powerful
you gotta get it. Here's the basics on recording automation one more time.
Automation Recording Procedure using the C16 Pro
1. Stop the Transport
2. NULL FADERS: Using their Null Arrow LEDs on the C16, synchronize the
Faders of the Channel strips you intend to automate with their Mixer
Window counterparts (see page 214).
3. ENABLE AUTO: Press the Auto button on the C16. The LED will begin
flashing.
4. ARM CHANNELS: Press and hold the Select button on the desired
channel(s) for about one second. The RED Led will light above the
channel strip, indicating that Automation Edit is enabled for that track.
5. BEGIN WRITING AUTOMATION DATA: During playback, tap the Select
button on the ARMED channel(s) to write fader automation. The yellow
LED will light indicating Automation "Write Mode". Move faders, press
Mute or adjust EQ to record the moves.
6. Press the Stop button when no further volume or Mute-button changes
are to needed and disable the Auto button.
7. To un-arm each Channel to stop the recording of automation data,
press and hold the channel's Select button for one second. The RED led
will go out.
8. To activate playback of each Channel's automation data, open the
Mixer window and turn on the "A" enable automation playback button at
the bottom of each fader.
To do this for Mutes and Pans, skip step 5.
PUNCH IN/OUT: You can punch in and out of Automation Write Mode by
tapping the Select button during playback.If you can "ride" the faders into automation or automate mutes you don'
|
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| Re: Pro tools summing bus revealed? [message #62453 is a reply to message #62395] |
Wed, 04 January 2006 20:27 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
>>Martin Harrington
>>>>>>>>>www.lendanear-sound.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"jef knight" <thestudio@allknightmusic.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>news:436fce7a$1@linux...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I just read the doc, thanks for posting the link. Much of it is
>>>>>>>>>>quite
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>interesting and just as much is confusing.
>>>>>>>>>>I didn't know tdm systems sounded gnarly, never having worked with
>>
>>>>>>>>>>one.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>At
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>what track count would they sonically crap out?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>If I can't get some of my tedious little troubles with paris
>>>>>>>>>>resolved
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I'm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>considering switching to protools.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>jef
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>DJ wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/WhitePaper_48BitMix er.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Any comments? It appears to me that the signals are recorded at
>> 24
>>>>>>>>>>>bit, then processed at whatever bit rate the plugin on the
>>>>>>>>>>>channel
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>has,
>>>>>>>>>>>including dither, or not, then reprocessed to 24 bit, then these
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>channels
>>>>>>>>>>>are summed. I'm no guru when it comes to this stuff, but I get
>>>>>>>>>>>this
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>feeling
>>>>>>>>>>>that this reprocessing *per channel* is the reason the TDM
>>>>>>>>>>>systems
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>seem
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>start sounding gnarly as more and more tracks are summed.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>You're wrong. :)
He made what I believe to be a major move to another state and got invovled,
as many cutting edge guys do, with new things and new systems and ways of
doing his job to full potential.
BT as far as I know is still using Paris to sum a native system, and
converted a LOT of higher ranking folks along the way, even PT hardcore
guys, to use Paris at the least to sum their stems.
AA
"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:43bbf7e6@linux...
> Yeah, he and Edmund told us how great it was and then bailed on us. Right?
> Tell me if I'm wrong.
>
> Edna wrote:
>> Curious as to what he moved to from Paris. From what I've read of his
>> older
>> posts, and the fact he made an instructional video, seemed like he was
>> pretty happy with Paris.
>> Edna
>>
>> "erlilo" <erlilo@online.no> wrote in message news:43bbf0ce@linux...
>>
>>>Maybe that was the problem. I think the man BrianT just wanted a real
>>
>> life,
>>
>>>not only breathing here with his pen, year after year ;-)
>>>
>>>Erling
>>>
>>>"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> skrev i melding news:43bbc437$1@linux...
>>>
>>>>And after all the things we did for that schmuck...made him the EA he is
>>>>today....sheesh!
>>>>
>>>>Don
>>>>
>>>>;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Yhea!
;o)
"Mike Claytor" <yep@yepper.com> wrote in message news:43bc9d5a$1@linux...
>
> I-rovy, huh?
>
> ;0)
>
>
>
> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
> >I'm absolutely floored by this VSTi. It literally sounds like there is a
> >Steinway D sitting right here in my control room. I'm not a keyboard
player,
> >but this thing may inspire me to go there. I'm flabbergasted!! Another
big
> >surprise was that it's not a huge resource hog as I had expected. It uses
> a
> >lot of RAM, but they warn you about that upfront. As far as CPU usage
goes,
> >it's a pussycat. I've got my RME buffers set at 64k and I'm streaming BFD
> >grooves and simultaneously playing the Bosendorfer mofofromhell piano
with
> >the most sample layers and expression options enabled with the sustain
pedal
> >working overtime and my dual core 64 4200+ CPU is hitting around 8-9%
(with
> >1.35G of RAM being utilized for both VSTi's, Cubase SX and the system.
Glad
> >I've got 4G of RAM though. The 7200 RPM dedicated HD is having no
problems
> >with this at all. I was thinking that I might need to go to a SATA RAID
> >array in order to get this app to function correctly. If you're looking
> for
> >a VSTi piano, this would be one to consider if you've got the rig to
operate
> >it or are considering building a dedicated VSTi box.
> >
> >Man.....this is friggin AWESOME sounding!!!!
> >
> >
>Yeah, avoid that LT man.. cheap hardware, inconsistent volumes across it and
just generally felt shoddy.
I'd take a Behr ADA8000 over it 'any day' to be honest, and it's a whole lot
less money.
Not sure what the current recommend is though bro, I've been out of that
market for a while now and I'd hate to mislead ya.
AA
"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@kc.rr.com> wrote in message news:43bc0147$1@linux...
>
> I've got a friend/client who's looking for an 8 channel mic pre that has
> lightpipe/spdif
> outs. He's running a digi 002 rig and wants to bypass the digi A/D stage.
> He wants it to be good, but affordability is a concern. He was looking a
> a presonus digimax LT, but I saw that Aaron had some experience with those
> and wasn't that hot on them.
> Right now his chain is a Mackie 1402 vlz into the Digi 002.
> Any suggestions?
> TIA
> RodI got Ivory going today also...and echo DJ's sentiment. Sounds great...absolutly
great. I, unfortunatly, don't have a dual core system (I think it's about
1.6 gig, single core amd 64)and 1 gig of ram. It's on the verge of being
OK, but on the higher layer patches, it causes some glitches in the system.
I could probably live with it if it was for me, but I'm hoping to put together
a rig that I can advetise as an alternative to studio's with a real piano,
and right now, I'm afraid my computer isn't quite up to that task. Deej,
I may be calling you in the not to distant future, for some comp building
grocery list tips.
Rod
"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>I'm absolutely floored by this VSTi. It literally sounds like there is a
>Steinway D sitting right here in my control room. I'm not a keyboard player,
>but this thing may inspire me to go there. I'm flabbergasted!! Another big
>surprise was that it's not a huge resource hog as I had expected. It uses
a
>lot of RAM, but they warn you about that upfront. As far as CPU usage goes,
>it's a pussycat. I've got my RME buffers set at 64k and I'm streaming BFD
>grooves and simultaneously playing the Bosendorfer mofofromhell piano with
>the most sample layers and expression options enabled with the sustain pedal
>working overtime and my dual core 64 4200+ CPU is hitting around 8-9% (with
>1.35G of RAM being utilized for both VSTi's, Cubase SX and the system. Glad
>I've got 4G of RAM though. The 7200 RPM dedicated HD is having no problems
>with this at all. I was thinking that I might need to go to a SATA RAID
>array in order to get this app to function correctly. If you're looking
for
>a VSTi piano, this would be one to consider if you've got the rig to operate
>it or are considering building a dedicated VSTi box.
>
>Man.....this is friggin AWESOME sounding!!!!
>
>"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>I'm absolutely floored by this VSTi. It literally sounds like there is a
>Steinway D sitting right here in my control room. I'm not a keyboard player,
>but this thing may inspire me to go there. I'm flabbergasted!! Another big
>surprise was that it's not a huge resource hog as I had expected. It uses
a
>lot of RAM, but they warn you about that upfront. As far as CPU usage goes,
>it's a pussycat. I've got my RME buffers set at 64k and I'm streaming BFD
>grooves and simultaneously playing the Bosendorfer mofofromhell piano with
>the most sample layers and expression options enabled with the sustain pedal
>working overtime and my dual core 64 4200+ CPU is hitting around 8-9% (with
>1.35G of RAM being utilized for both VSTi's, Cubase SX and the system. Glad
>I've got 4G of RAM though. The 7200 RPM dedicated HD is having no problems
>with this at all. I was thinking that I might need to go to a SATA RAID
>array in order to get this app to function correctly. If you're looking
for
>a VSTi piano, this would be one to consider if you've got the rig to operate
>it or are considering building a dedicated VSTi box.
>
>Man.....this is friggin AWESOME sounding!!!!
>
>
Pianos?....pianos?....We don't need no stinking pianos! ; )
They take up too much room, and you actually have to pay somebody to tune
them; )Pete -
Another alternative is to go the Home Theater route. I find that for
most TV viewing, our 27" TV in the family room is fine (especially
with surround audio attached), but what we really want the big screen
for is movies. This fall, I decided to build a Home Theater in the
basement to accomplish this.
I quickly realized that Plasma, LCD, DLP, CRT, etc, technolgies were
way too expensive for the type of screen I wanted, so I ended up
getting a modest DLP projector (Optoma H31) which is mounted to the
ceiling and projecting down on a 92" screen I built myself out of
floor molding and blackout cloth. This setup takes up a wall in the
basement and provides a true movie theater experience for us.
To handle the sound, I migrated my studio mains - a pair of vintage
a/d/s L1290 speakers into the theater and added a center and 3
surround speakers from a manufacturer called Fluance. Finally I picked
up a used 15" 200W subwoofer from someone at work to fill the room
with BOOM!
My amp is a Yamaha 6.1 AV receiver which puts out about 100W per
channel and has some interesting ambience settings to play around
with. The final piece I picked up is a Zenith DVD player. It is an
older model, but well known on the internet as "customiz
|
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|
| Re: Pro tools summing bus revealed? [message #62474 is a reply to message #62383] |
Thu, 05 January 2006 02:50 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
>>>>>>>jef
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>DJ wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/WhitePaper_48BitMix er.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Any comments? It appears to me that the signals are recorded at
>24
>>>>>>>>>>bit, then processed at whatever bit rate the plugin on the channel
>
>>>>>>>>>>has,
>>>>>>>>>>including dither, or not, then reprocessed to 24 bit, then these
>
>>>>>>>>>>channels
>>>>>>>>>>are summed. I'm no guru when it comes to this stuff, but I get this
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>feeling
>>>>>>>>>>that this reprocessing *per channel* is the reason the TDM systems
>
>>>>>>>>>>seem
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>start sounding gnarly as more and more tracks are summed.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Hi and happy new year.
I amconsidering trying these roland drum triggers.
I only wonder can these trigger signals be recorded and asre these reliable
enouph to drive Drumagog's engine ?
Thus not to buy and trigger to midi device that makes things more complicated.
I would like to have clean (no leackage) trigger sound that could drive drumagog
perfectly (if you can say that)
I am already using it with real drum sounds but sometimes leackage is an
enemy to perfect sound replacement.
Any insight in this direction would be appreciatted.
Regards,
DimitriosIf these drums are strictly for triggering and not for gigging or
rehearsals, fill them up with styrafoam packing peanuts to reduce the drums
volume (and leakage)
As for recording the triggers that's an excellent question but I still think
you'd need to convert that to an audio signal for Drumagog or a midi signal
for BFD or DFH...on the otherhand it just might work.
Also check out EBAY for a Roland PM 16...there were three yesterday...great
mic/trigger to midi converter interface for the $$$
Don
"Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote in message news:43bd0295$1@linux...
>
> Hi and happy new year.
> I amconsidering trying these roland drum triggers.
> I only wonder can these trigger signals be recorded and asre these
> reliable
> enouph to drive Drumagog's engine ?
> Thus not to buy and trigger to midi device that makes things more
> complicated.
> I would like to have clean (no leackage) trigger sound that could drive
> drumagog
> perfectly (if you can say that)
> I am already using it with real drum sounds but sometimes leackage is an
> enemy to perfect sound replacement.
> Any insight in this direction would be appreciatted.
> Regards,
> DimitriosAre you sure the change also applies to automation?
DOn
"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:43bc7e00@linux...
> Can anyone explain this another way? I don't get it........
>
> If you want to edit across multiple submixes
>
> 1. Edit your first submix by cutting up all objects at the Now Line and
> deleting (or adding) them in unison until you have the right edit. Drag
> 'em around to taste, all together, until you have the best compromise
> edit.
>
> 2. Undo the Edit, returning all edited objects to their previous state,
> selected and ready to cut or add. Make sure the objects you're deleting or
> inserting are selected, and are all the same length, which they will be if
> you cut them at the Now Line.
>
> 3. Click in the Information Bar to Sel End (Selection Range) to find out
> the EXACT LENGTH of the objects you've cut/ added.
>
> 4. Go to Insert/ Delete Time and enter the exact time stated in the
> Information Bar thing that's been hidden from you lo these many years.
>
> BOOM. You're done! Just like that! All your automation, all your markers,
> all objects in all editor windows, everything has been moved exactly the
> way you wanted.http://www.xlutop.com/html/chainer.html
ulfiyya wrote:
> Hi Good Fellas?
> Happy new year!!!
> Wat is a Chainer?
> greets,No, you only have to assign the fader (that you routed to spdif) to
another fader on the same submix. Not the example routes the processed
channel 10 to 11 on the same submix.
Clifford Coulter wrote:
> Thanks John I think I got it.
>
> It looks like you have to assign the track to a seperate sub mix
> I hope thats it
>
> Clifford
>
> John <no@no.com> wrote:
>
>>You can route to the SPDIF out and then back in on a different channel.
>>
>>SPDIF Rendering
>>--------------------------
>>Patchbay workaround for bouncing tracks and rendering plugins
>>
>>Tired of zeroing/clearing a mix to bounce a track or tracks to a new
>>file? Or wish you could render native plugins while listening and
>>adjusting in context. No problem.
>>
>>Open the Patch Bay. Clear all your SPDIF I/O connections. Physically (as
>
>
>>in, on the back of your Paris 442 or MEC) loop your Paris SPDIF in to
>>your Paris SPDIF out with a short cable. Go back to the Patch Bay.
>>
>>In the Patch Bay, connect the "Mixer Insert" SEND of the source channel
>
>
>>for the bounce to the left SPDIF output (dL) on your 442 or MEC. Connect
>
>
>>the SPDIF left input (dL) back to the same channel's "Mixer Insert"
>>Return to complete the loop. Now connect the same left SPDIF output to
>>the "Submixer Input" of the Destination channel you want to
>>bounce/record to. Select "External" on the EDS insert on the source channel.
>>
>>Enable Record on the Destination channel. That's it. Record away. You
>
>
>>can use your mixer normally while you bounce with no ill effect. And in
>
>
>>a case of good fortune, since the EDS inserts are after the native
>>inserts, any active plugins will be printed while bouncing. Great for
>>rendering AutoTune or various other plugin settings for different song
>>sections. For the price of time and disk space, you have unlimited plugins.
>>
>>Example. You have a track on track 10 and you want to render this to
>>track 11. In the Patchbay:
>> Mixer-A channel 11 connects to MEC-Master-A Digital In Left
>> MEC-Master-A Digital In Left connects to Mixer-A-Insert Return10
>> MEC-Master-A Digital Out Left connects to Mixer-A-Insert Send10
>> Select "External" on the EDS insert on the source channel.
>>
>>
>>Clifford Coulter wrote:
>>
>>>Hello
>>>
>>>I have a 2 EDS card Paris System and a Mec. with no extra cards in it
>>>running on a Macintosh
>>>I would like to know if it is possible to route Channel one to the Digital
>>>out
>>>and send it to my other computer, process it and send back to the Digital
>>>in and route it back into channel one
>>>
>>>if not how do I get any channel routed to an external device and back
>
> into
>
>>>PARIS
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>Clifford
>>>
>
>I'm going through my notes of what others have posted. So now I"m trying
to actually do it and I can't make sense of this note. I wonder who
posted it. I think it's BT cuz he liked to say BOOM. hehe.
John
Don Nafe wrote:
> Are you sure the change also applies to automation?
>
> DOn
>
> "John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:43bc7e00@linux...
>
>>Can anyone explain this another way? I don't get it........
>>
>>If you want to edit across multiple submixes
>>
>>1. Edit your first submix by cutting up all objects at the Now Line and
>>deleting (or adding) them in unison until you have the right edit. Drag
>>'em around to taste, all together, until you have the best compromise
>>edit.
>>
>>2. Undo the Edit, returning all edited objects to their previous state,
>>selected and ready to cut or add. Make sure the objects you're deleting or
>>inserting are selected, and are all the same length, which they will be if
>>you cut them at the Now Line.
>>
>>3. Click in the Information Bar to Sel End (Selection Range) to find out
>>the EXACT LENGTH of the objects you've cut/ added.
>>
>>4. Go to Insert/ Delete Time and enter the exact time stated in the
>>Information Bar thing that's been hidden from you lo these many years.
>>
>>BOOM. You're done! Just like that! All your automation, all your markers,
>>all objects in all editor windows, everything has been moved exactly the
>>way you wanted.
>
>
>Yup... And if your using bars and beats on a grid, you can nix out most of
the steps below as well.
Rod
"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>Are you sure the change also applies to automation?
>
>DOn
>
>"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:43bc7e00@linux...
>> Can anyone explain this another way? I don't get it........
>>
>> If you want to edit across multiple submixes
>>
>> 1. Edit your first submix by cutting up all objects at the Now Line and
>> deleting (or adding) them in unison until you have the right edit. Drag
>>
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|
| Re: Pro tools summing bus revealed? [message #62512 is a reply to message #62385] |
Thu, 05 January 2006 11:56 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
thestudio@allknightmusic.com> wrote in message
>> >>>>>news:436fce7a$1@linux...
>> >>>>>>I just read the doc, thanks for posting the link. Much of it is
>quite
>> >>>
>> >>>>>>interesting and just as much is confusing.
>> >>>>>> I didn't know tdm systems sounded gnarly, never having worked with
>> >one.
>> >>>>At
>> >>>>>> what track count would they sonically crap out?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> If I can't get some of my tedious little troubles with paris
>resolved
>> >>>>I'm
>> >>>>>> considering switching to protools.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> jef
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> DJ wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/WhitePaper_48BitMix er.pdf
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>Any comments? It appears to me that the signals are recorded at
24
>> >>>>>>>bit, then processed at whatever bit rate the plugin on the channel
>> >has,
>> >>>>>>>including dither, or not, then reprocessed to 24 bit, then these
>channels
>> >>>>>>>are summed. I'm no guru when it comes to this stuff, but I get
this
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>feeling
>> >>>>>>>that this reprocessing *per channel* is the reason the TDM systems
>> >seem
>> >>>>to
>> >>>>>>>start sounding gnarly as more and more tracks are summed.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>
>I commented on this elsewhere. I think this is a user friendliness test (for
a certain kind of user), not a sonics test. I think the DAW test was excellent
at testing what it was supposed to test, which was if digital summing busses
sound very different. It wasn't designed to test which was the most fun/eaiest
to use/most like a console/prettiest/best value/most expandable or anything
else. For what it did it was great, the other questions should be answered
with other, appropriate tests. In my never-at-all-humble opinion of course
;-)
TCB
"Tony Benson" <tony@standinghampton.com> wrote:
>That's the beauty of PARIS. It's like an analog console with plugins and
>editing. You can push it and pull it and twist it and mold it without worry.
>In the last year of working with DP I've learned just how cool PARIS really
>is. Red lights in DP mean ouch. Red lights in PARIS mean things are cookin'.
>
>Tony
>
>
>"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
>news:43bc05f6@linux...
>> One thing that they didn't do on that DAW summing CD was to push the
>> respective systems. I think a lot more would have been revealed had this
>> been done and Brian could have used the various gain staging options
>> available in Paris.
>>
>>
>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:43bc03c4$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Agreed :)
>>> LaMont
>>>
>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >I wasn't thinking you were slamming SX or native stuff in general. In
>> fact,
>>> >in theory native mixes should sound better becuase of the necessary
>> latencies
>>> >in many hardware based computer systems. And I agree that different
>> sytstems
>>> >need to be worked differently to sound good--I think a lot of what makes
>>> >PARIS sound good is that it takes abuse artfully, maybe even
>> aesthetically.
>>> >But I was shocked at how little difference there was on that DAW CD.
>>> >
>>> >TCB
>>> >
>>> >"La" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>Good Post Thad..
>>> >>
>>> >>My point was not to slam SX/Nuendo,but to say that:
>>> >>
>>> >>-Pro Toools Sounds good if not great.
>>> >>-(To Me) I have to work harder to get good mixes out of SX/Nuendo.
The
>>> >mixes
>>> >>end up sound ing great, but the work involved is not as easy(To me)
get
>>> >maximum
>>> >>results.
>>> >>Take care
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>I did the DAW summing CD thingy from what's his name in Nashville
and
>>> could
>>> >>>find basically zero difference in anything. Maybe I'm deaf, but if
you
>>> >were
>>> >>>to double blind me I don't think I could pick out individual mixes
>> consistently.
>>> >>>Since that was (if I recall) a 24 track mix that was big and loud
and
>>> R&B/rock/gospel
>>> >>>I would think that would argue against this idea. However, it's a
>> little
>>> >>>like the audiophile world sometimes where when the tests seem to
>> disprove
>>> >>>personal experience the test is faulted instead of the experience.
>> That's
>>> >>>fine, ears are very fine instruments and some are just better than
>> others.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>That said, I now work a good bit of my time in the finance world where
>>> >fortunes
>>> >>>are made and lost according to the certitude of people in their
>> experiences
>>> >>>or mathmatical models. Over time this has lead me to believe more
in
>> emperical
>>> >>>results than my experience. So if I do my own blind tests with the
>> Nashville
>>> >>>CD and can't generate statistically significant data that DAWs sound
>> different
>>> >>>then *I* will believe they sound the same. This could mean a flawed
>> test
>>> >>>or flawed ears but that's my belief until someone can present me with
>>> more
>>> >>>convincing data.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>But hey, that's just me. I've also done mixes of 30+ tracks in SX
and
>>> think
>>> >>>they sound quite nice.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>TCB
>>> >>>
>>> >>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>Hey guys,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>I know that this is an old thread, but I have to disagree with
>> assessments
>>> >>>>on Pro Tools sound quality.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>First, I mix with Pro Tools HD at our Church's studio for major
>> release
>>> >>>Gospel
>>> >>>>Cds. Pro Tools HD sounds wonderful with low and high track counts
and
>>> >ITB
>>> >>>>(in the Box) or summed to the SSL,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>At my home studio, I have PT LE & Nuendo and while I love Nuendo's
>> elequent
>>> >>>>editing and nice soft sound, it's 32 bit floating mixer in a major
>> pain
>>> >>>in
>>> >>>>!@# to mix aggresive Rock, R &B, Hip hop with. Onthe other hand,
>> those
>>> >>>same
>>> >>>>mixes done in PT LE, have that sparkle and width. In Nuendo, after
30
>>> >tracks,
>>> >>>>things start's getting "smearded" and tracks levels tends to get
lost
>>> >or
>>> >>>>they don't sit right.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>However, in PT Le, (same songs, tracks are not smeared, levels stay
>> intacked,
>>> >>>>and the overall mix sounds very professional, just like mixes in
>> Paris..
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>Some local Engineer friends in the area( Motown), have been in
>> discussions
>>> >>>>about the state of current DAWs and what's working and what's not.
>> Opinions
>>> >>>>varied,but the one constant opinion that was stated was how dificult
>>> it
>>> >>>was
>>> >>>>to mix in Cubase and Nuendo on mixes over 30 tracks. No matter what
>> i/o
>>> >>>converters(Apogee,Lucid,Motu,
>>> >>>>RME) mixing Rock , R&B, Hip-Hop is a dificult chore in
>> SX/Nuendo..Where
>>> >>>>as mixing in Paris and Pro Tools is not..
>>> >>>>Hey,Just one Engineer's opinon.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>P.S
>>> >>>>Jsut for geekdum sakes, the new Sonar 5 uses a newly coded 64 to
>> 32bit
>>> >>>floating
>>> >>>>point mixer..
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>> >>>>>Yukkk,
>>> >>>>>Don't do it..PT I mean.
>>> >>>>>I've just been playing with PT M-Powered 6.8, using my Delta 1010,
>> and
>>> >>>I
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>have to say...I don't like it.
>>> >>>>>The interface is (IMNSHO), horrible, confusing, and convoluted.
>>> >>>>>Moves that come easily in Paris, and more easily in Nuendo, are
>> tiresome
>>> >>>>in
>>> >>>>>PT, apart from the reagon tool...taht has always been good, right
>> from
>>> >>>the
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>Session 8 days, but not much else.
>>> >>>>>And..it only plays .MOV video files, which in my case
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pro tools summing bus revealed? [message #62513 is a reply to message #62397] |
Thu, 05 January 2006 12:00 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
is a no-no,
>> (the
>>> >>>full
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>TDM version may play the others but I don't think so).
>>> >>>>>To top it off, playing one of my projects from Nuendo,
>>> >>>>>(reassembled),
>>> >>it
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>didn't have the "life" that the original had, by a long shot.
>>> >>>>>I repeat...don't go there, Jeff......
>>> >>>>>--
>>> >>>>>Martin Harrington
>>> >>>>>www.lendanear-sound.com
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>"jef knight" <thestudio@allknightmusic.com> wrote in message
>>> >>>>>news:436fce7a$1@linux...
>>> >>>>>>I just read the doc, thanks for posting the link. Much of it is
>> quite
>>> >>>
>>> >>>>>>interesting and just as much is confusing.
>>> >>>>>> I didn't know tdm systems sounded gnarly, never having worked
with
>>> >one.
>>> >>>>At
>>> >>>>>> what track count would they sonically crap out?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> If I can't get some of my tedious little troubles with paris
>> resolved
>>> >>>>I'm
>>> >>>>>> considering switching to protools.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> jef
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/WhitePaper_48BitMix er.pdf
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>Any comments? It appears to me that the signals are recorded at
24
>>> >>>>>>>bit, then processed at whatever bit rate the plugin on the channel
>>> >has,
>>> >>>>>>>including dither, or not, then reprocessed to 24 bit, then these
>> channels
>>> >>>>>>>are summed. I'm no guru when it comes to this stuff, but I get
>>> >>>>>>>this
>>> >>
>>> >>>>>>>feeling
>>> >>>>>>>that this reprocessing *per channel* is the reason the TDM systems
>>> >seem
>>> >>>>to
>>> >>>>>>>start sounding gnarly as more and more tracks are summed.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>
>Just select PRO mode in the c16 configuration.
uptown jimmy wrote:
> How does this work on the black C-16?
>
> Jimmy
>
> "John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:43bc634c@linux...
>
>>Is everyone clear on how easy Automation is? It's really so powerful
>>you gotta get it. Here's the basics on recording automation one more
>
> time.
>
>>
>>
>>Automation Recording Procedure using the C16 Pro
>>
>>1. Stop the Transport
>>
>>2. NULL FADERS: Using their Null Arrow LEDs on the C16, synchronize the
>>Faders of the Channel strips you intend to automate with their Mixer
>>Window counterparts (see page 214).
>>
>>3. ENABLE AUTO: Press the Auto button on the C16. The LED will begin
>>flashing.
>>
>>4. ARM CHANNELS: Press and hold the Select button on the desired
>>channel(s) for about one second. The RED Led will light above the
>>channel strip, indicating that Automation Edit is enabled for that track.
>>
>>5. BEGIN WRITING AUTOMATION DATA: During playback, tap the Select
>>button on the ARMED channel(s) to write fader automation. The yellow
>>LED will light indicating Automation "Write Mode". Move faders, press
>>Mute or adjust EQ to record the moves.
>>
>>6. Press the Stop button when no further volume or Mute-button changes
>>are to needed and disable the Auto button.
>>
>>7. To un-arm each Channel to stop the recording of automation data,
>>press and hold the channel's Select button for one second. The RED led
>>will go out.
>>
>>8. To activate playback of each Channel's automation data, open the
>>Mixer window and turn on the "A" enable automation playback button at
>>the bottom of each fader.
>>
>>To do this for Mutes and Pans, skip step 5.
>>
>>PUNCH IN/OUT: You can punch in and out of Automation Write Mode by
>>tapping the Select button during playback.
>
>
>Buy the premp shootout CD at 3D audio and see if you can tell one iota of
difference between the Mackie VLZ Pro and some preamps costing 10 times the
price. I guarantee you will be surprised. With the Mackie VLZ's it's all
about the mic you use. Put a decent mic on these and they shine. Pur a cheap
POS on them with a bunch of fizzy top end distortion and they don't.
My $0.02
Deej
"Tony Benson" <tony@standinghampton.com> wrote in message
news:43bd5d71@linux...
> Listen for yourself indeed. This is always the best advice!
>
> Tony
>
>
> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:43bd5a4c$1@linux...
> >
> > With Mackie, it's always marketing hype. Mackie has been known to over
> > hype
> > their products, not to say they don't make reasonably good stuff.
Always
> > use your own ears. I remember reading somewhere on Gearslutz where
> > somebody
> > was taking their Onyx Mixer back because the mic pres were too shrill
and
> > harsh. Of course every bodies got different ears, so listen for
yourself!
> >
> >
> >
> > John <no@no.com> wrote:
> >>so what will their next pres be? Even better, and then they'll have to
> >
> >>come up with some adjectives to describe what is wrong with the Onyx's.
> >
> >> I loves audio !
> >>
> >>Tony Benson wrote:
> >>> From what I've heard, the Onyx pre's are a pretty big step up from the
> >
> >>> VLZpro. I've had non-VLZ, VLZ, and VLZpro Mackie boards, and though
the
> >
> >>> VLZpro pre's where much better, they still had a "harshness" to them
> >>> that
> > I
> >>> didn't care for. The Onyx are supposed to be much smoother sounding.
> >>> I'll
> >
> >>> have to borrow my friends for a week so I can comment from first hand
> >
> >>> knowledge.
> >>>
> >>> Tony
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "Miguel Vigil" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> >>> news:43bd4431@linux...
> >>>
> >>>>>know there was a diff in VLZ and VLZpro.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Yes there is a big difference. The VLZpro series is where Mackie rose
> >>>>high on the radar of the pro user for quality, usefullness and bang
for
> >>>>the buck mic pre. Of course, you gotta use the insert out via first
> >>>>click
> >>>>method and avoid the channel.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Regards,
> >>>>
> >>>>El Miguel
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote in message
> >>>>news:43bd177a$1@linux...
> >>>>
> >>>>>Don't know...I just asked him what he used, and that's what he said.
> > I
> >>>>
> >>>>didn't
> >>>>
> >>>>>know there was a diff in VLZ and VLZpro.
> >>>>>Rod
> >>>>>"Miguel Vigil" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Right now his chain is a Mackie 1402 vlz into the Digi 002.
> >>>>>>>>Any suggestions?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Is this Mackie the VLZpro series?
> >>>>>>I don't know how the new Onyx pres compare.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>He could try to audition the cheap Behringer ADA8000 with it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>http://www.studioprojects.com/sp828.html
> >>>>>>This is an 8 channel mic pre about $800, that needs to be run into
an
> >>>>
> >>>>ADC.
> >>>>
> >>>>>>Just ideas to keep cost in check.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Regards,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>El Miguel
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
> >>>>
> >>>>news:43bca3d6@linux...
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>Yeah, avoid that LT man.. cheap hardware, inconsistent volumes
across
> >>>>>
> >>>>>it
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>just generally felt shoddy.
> >>>>>>>I'd take a Behr ADA8000 over it 'any day' to be honest, and it's a
> >>>>
> >>>>whole
> >>>>
> >>>>>>lot
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>less money.
> >>>>>>>Not sure what the current recommend is though bro, I've been out of
> >>>>
> >>>>that
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>market for a while now and I'd hate to mislead ya.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>AA
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@kc.rr.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>news:43bc0147$1@linux...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>I've got a friend/client who's looking for an 8 channel mic pre
that
> >>>>>
> >>>>>has
> &g
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pro tools summing bus revealed? [message #62548 is a reply to message #62274] |
Thu, 05 January 2006 21:31 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
FWIW, I'm producing a rap/R&B project in Nuendo - so far no problems getting
it to sound really good. I see your point, and maybe there is a magic wall
at 30-40 simultaneous tracks in 32-bit float, but I just don't see many
projects needing that many tracks simultaneously - I can't recall what we
had on the last song - it was stacked with doubled vocals, backgrounds
doubled on the chorus, accents, individual instrument tracks, etc.
A little well-placed subtractive EQ and a few other minor considerations
usually keep things from getting out of hand.
Can't speak for PTHD - haven't mixed on it yet.
Regards,
Dedric
On 1/3/06 10:55 AM, in article 43baac8e$1@linux, "LaMont"
<jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
> about the state of current DAWs and what's working and what's not. Opinions
> varied,but the one constant opinion that was stated was how dificult it was
> to mix in Cubase and Nuendo on mixes over 30 tracks. No matter what i/o
> converters(Apogee,Lucid,Motu,
> RME) mixing Rock , R&B, Hip-Hop is a dificult chore in SX/Nuendo..Where
> as mixing in Paris and Pro Tools is not..
> Hey,Just one Engineer's opinon.
>
> P.S
> Jsut for geekdum sakes, the new Sonar 5 uses a newly coded 64 to 32bit
> floating
> point mixer..
>
> "Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>> Yukkk,
>> Don't do it..PT I mean.
>> I've just been playing with PT M-Powered 6.8, using my Delta 1010, and I
>
>> have to say...I don't like it.
>> The interface is (IMNSHO), horrible, confusing, and convoluted.
>> Moves that come easily in Paris, and more easily in Nuendo, are tiresome
> in
>> PT, apart from the reagon tool...taht has always been good, right from the
>
>> Session 8 days, but not much else.
>> And..it only plays .MOV video files, which in my case is a no-no, (the full
>
>> TDM version may play the others but I don't think so).
>> To top it off, playing one of my projects from Nuendo, (reassembled), it
>
>> didn't have the "life" that the original had, by a long shot.
>> I repeat...don't go there, Jeff......
>> --
>> Martin Harrington
>> www.lendanear-sound.com
>>
>> "jef knight" <thestudio@allknightmusic.com> wrote in message
>> news:436fce7a$1@linux...
>>> I just read the doc, thanks for posting the link. Much of it is quite
>>> interesting and just as much is confusing.
>>> I didn't know tdm systems sounded gnarly, never having worked with one.
> At
>>> what track count would they sonically crap out?
>>>
>>> If I can't get some of my tedious little troubles with paris resolved
> I'm
>>> considering switching to protools.
>>>
>>> jef
>>>
>>> DJ wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/WhitePaper_48BitMix er.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Any comments? It appears to me that the signals are recorded at 24
>>>> bit, then processed at whatever bit rate the plugin on the channel has,
>>>> including dither, or not, then reprocessed to 24 bit, then these channels
>>>> are summed. I'm no guru when it comes to this stuff, but I get this
>>>> feeling
>>>> that this reprocessing *per channel* is the reason the TDM systems seem
> to
>>>> start sounding gnarly as more and more tracks are summed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pro tools summing bus revealed? [message #62551 is a reply to message #62548] |
Thu, 05 January 2006 23:50 |
lamont jjdproamerietc
Messages: 1
Registered: January 2006
|
Junior Member |
|
|
Hey Dedric,
they way I nad other cut and mix R & B/Gospel baking vocals is have at least
4-8 layers per note. I go for 6 usually times 4 part harmony = 24 tracks
of balck vocals..Not including the MPC drums tracks=12-16 tracks..Lead Vocals..=2
, Keyss 4 tracks, Bass =2 tracks, Guitars 2-3 tracks....
Now mix this many tracks in nuendo fine, until youstart add plugins..That's
when things start getting crazy.. Levels not matching, distortion fron tracks..Track
balancing becomes off kilter.. YOu speed so much time just trying to put
out fires that you lose focus on the mix.. Then all of a sudden, here comes
that Nuendoi smearinng sound,..Nice and smooth..But, you're trying mix agresiive
!@@@ARGG.... So, then you start making trade offs on masert fader levels
(-5bd).. And so on and so it goes.. TOOO Much work ..In _PAris and PT ,
could've been done in jiffy..
Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>FWIW, I'm producing a rap/R&B project in Nuendo - so far no problems getting
>it to sound really good. I see your point, and maybe there is a magic wall
>at 30-40 simultaneous tracks in 32-bit float, but I just don't see many
>projects needing that many tracks simultaneously - I can't recall what we
>had on the last song - it was stacked with doubled vocals, backgrounds
>doubled on the chorus, accents, individual instrument tracks, etc.
>
>A little well-placed subtractive EQ and a few other minor considerations
>usually keep things from getting out of hand.
>
>Can't speak for PTHD - haven't mixed on it yet.
>
>Regards,
>Dedric
>
>On 1/3/06 10:55 AM, in article 43baac8e$1@linux, "LaMont"
><jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>> about the state of current DAWs and what's working and what's not. Opinions
>> varied,but the one constant opinion that was stated was how dificult it
was
>> to mix in Cubase and Nuendo on mixes over 30 tracks. No matter what i/o
>> converters(Apogee,Lucid,Motu,
>> RME) mixing Rock , R&B, Hip-Hop is a dificult chore in SX/Nuendo..Where
>> as mixing in Paris and Pro Tools is not..
>> Hey,Just one Engineer's opinon.
>>
>> P.S
>> Jsut for geekdum sakes, the new Sonar 5 uses a newly coded 64 to 32bit
>> floating
>> point mixer..
>>
>> "Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>> Yukkk,
>>> Don't do it..PT I mean.
>>> I've just been playing with PT M-Powered 6.8, using my Delta 1010, and
I
>>
>>> have to say...I don't like it.
>>> The interface is (IMNSHO), horrible, confusing, and convoluted.
>>> Moves that come easily in Paris, and more easily in Nuendo, are tiresome
>> in
>>> PT, apart from the reagon tool...taht has always been good, right from
the
>>
>>> Session 8 days, but not much else.
>>> And..it only plays .MOV video files, which in my case is a no-no, (the
full
>>
>>> TDM version may play the others but I don't think so).
>>> To top it off, playing one of my projects from Nuendo, (reassembled),
it
>>
>>> didn't have the "life" that the original had, by a long shot.
>>> I repeat...don't go there, Jeff......
>>> --
>>> Martin Harrington
>>> www.lendanear-sound.com
>>>
>>> "jef knight" <thestudio@allknightmusic.com> wrote in message
>>> news:436fce7a$1@linux...
>>>> I just read the doc, thanks for posting the link. Much of it is quite
>>>> interesting and just as much is confusing.
>>>> I didn't know tdm systems sounded gnarly, never having worked with one.
>> At
>>>> what track count would they sonically crap out?
>>>>
>>>> If I can't get some of my tedious little troubles with paris resolved
>> I'm
>>>> considering switching to protools.
>>>>
>>>> jef
>>>>
>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/WhitePaper_48BitMix er.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> Any comments? It appears to me that the signals are recorded at 24
>>>>> bit, then processed at whatever bit rate the plugin on the channel
has,
>>>>> including dither, or not, then reprocessed to 24 bit, then these channels
>>>>> are summed. I'm no guru when it comes to this stuff, but I get this
>>>>> feeling
>>>>> that this reprocessing *per channel* is the reason the TDM systems
seem
>> to
>>>>> start sounding gnarly as more and more tracks are summed.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pro tools summing bus revealed? [message #62574 is a reply to message #62551] |
Fri, 06 January 2006 08:57 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Lamont, I have to disagree with you to a certain extent... I'm
using CubaseSX (version 1.06, which I've heard, alternately from
different sources, that it does have the same sound engine as
Nuendo, and that it also does not, but in any case, if it does
not, then I'm sure the one in Nuendo is better), and I don't get
this smearing you're talking about - even at track counts in the
36-40+ range (IIRC, 42 tracks is the highest I've needed thus
far). The only thing I've noticed about it is that when you do
get into those higher track counts, the soundstage does have a
tendency to collapse a tiny bit... a few percentage points at
most, though, and that can be remedied by exporting four or five
stereo stems.
A few questions:
What resolution are you recording at where you're hearing this
smearing? I use 24-bit/88.2k, and I've got 2 or 3 songs with
track counts in the high 30's with probably 20 or so plug-in's
going, and I'm not hearing anything like this. Do you think it
could be your PC on the verge of bogging down at those levels of
demand? What's your VST Performance Meter look like in those
cases? Around 90% or higher? Also are you using time-based
plugin's like reverbs & delays as insert plugin's on individual
channels, or are you using them across group channels in a
send/return fashion?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Neil
"lamont" jjdpro#amerietch.net wrote:
>
>Hey Dedric,
>they way I nad other cut and mix R & B/Gospel baking vocals is have at
least
>4-8 layers per note. I go for 6 usually times 4 part harmony = 24 tracks
>of balck vocals..Not including the MPC drums tracks=12-16 tracks..Lead Vocals..=2
>, Keyss 4 tracks, Bass =2 tracks, Guitars 2-3 tracks....
>
>Now mix this many tracks in nuendo fine, until youstart add plugins..That's
>when things start getting crazy.. Levels not matching, distortion fron tracks..Track
>balancing becomes off kilter.. YOu speed so much time just trying to put
>out fires that you lose focus on the mix.. Then all of a sudden, here comes
>that Nuendoi smearinng sound,..Nice and smooth..But, you're trying mix agresiive
>!@@@ARGG.... So, then you start making trade offs on masert fader levels
>(-5bd).. And so on and so it goes.. TOOO Much work ..In _PAris and PT ,
>could've been done in jiffy..
>
>
>Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>FWIW, I'm producing a rap/R&B project in Nuendo - so far no problems getting
>>it to sound really good. I see your point, and maybe there is a magic
wall
>>at 30-40 simultaneous tracks in 32-bit float, but I just don't see many
>>projects needing that many tracks simultaneously - I can't recall what
we
>>had on the last song - it was stacked with doubled vocals, backgrounds
>>doubled on the chorus, accents, individual instrument tracks, etc.
>>
>>A little well-placed subtractive EQ and a few other minor considerations
>>usually keep things from getting out of hand.
>>
>>Can't speak for PTHD - haven't mixed on it yet.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Dedric
>>
>>On 1/3/06 10:55 AM, in article 43baac8e$1@linux, "LaMont"
>><jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>
>>> about the state of current DAWs and what's working and what's not. Opinions
>>> varied,but the one constant opinion that was stated was how dificult
it
>was
>>> to mix in Cubase and Nuendo on mixes over 30 tracks. No matter what i/o
>>> converters(Apogee,Lucid,Motu,
>>> RME) mixing Rock , R&B, Hip-Hop is a dificult chore in SX/Nuendo..Where
>>> as mixing in Paris and Pro Tools is not..
>>> Hey,Just one Engineer's opinon.
>>>
>>> P.S
>>> Jsut for geekdum sakes, the new Sonar 5 uses a newly coded 64 to 32bit
>>> floating
>>> point mixer..
>>>
>>> "Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>>> Yukkk,
>>>> Don't do it..PT I mean.
>>>> I've just been playing with PT M-Powered 6.8, using my Delta 1010, and
>I
>>>
>>>> have to say...I don't like it.
>>>> The interface is (IMNSHO), horrible, confusing, and convoluted.
>>>> Moves that come easily in Paris, and more easily in Nuendo, are tiresome
>>> in
>>>> PT, apart from the reagon tool...taht has always been good, right from
>the
>>>
>>>> Session 8 days, but not much else.
>>>> And..it only plays .MOV video files, which in my case is a no-no, (the
>full
>>>
>>>> TDM version may play the others but I don't think so).
>>>> To top it off, playing one of my projects from Nuendo, (reassembled),
>it
>>>
>>>> didn't have the "life" that the original had, by a long shot.
>>>> I repeat...don't go there, Jeff......
>>>> --
>>>> Martin Harrington
>>>> www.lendanear-sound.com
>>>>
>>>> "jef knight" <thestudio@allknightmusic.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:436fce7a$1@linux...
>>>>> I just read the doc, thanks for posting the link. Much of it is quite
>>>>> interesting and just as much is confusing.
>>>>> I didn't know tdm systems sounded gnarly, never having worked with
one.
>>> At
>>>>> what track count would they sonically crap out?
>>>>>
>>>>> If I can't get some of my tedious little troubles with paris resolved
>>> I'm
>>>>> considering switching to protools.
>>>>>
>>>>> jef
>>>>>
>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/WhitePaper_48BitMix er.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any comments? It appears to me that the signals are recorded at 24
>>>>>> bit, then processed at whatever bit rate the plugin on the channel
>has,
>>>>>> including dither, or not, then reprocessed to 24 bit, then these channels
>>>>>> are summed. I'm no guru when it comes to this stuff, but I get this
>>>>>> feeling
>>>>>> that this reprocessing *per channel* is the reason the TDM systems
>seem
>>> to
>>>>>> start sounding gnarly as more and more tracks are summed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pro tools summing bus revealed? [message #62648 is a reply to message #62574] |
Sat, 07 January 2006 19:05 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hey Neil,long time !!:)
Well, lets get answering some your questions:
-mixing 24bit files/44.1
-no verbs or any timebased fx as inserts.
-Vst metering= 65-70 percent
-track were streaming from a firewire drive
I think that you are on to something with consolidating tracks.
I still the problem lies with the type of music R&B/Hip Hop, with 32 tracks
of just backing vocals:) add on 12 tracks of MPC hard hitting beats, thunderous
sytnth bass..Mannnnn!!:)
I Load those same tracks into Paris &ProTools, boom. Big, solid, round sound,
with a wide summing stage.
In Nuendo(2.3), the mix is fine, but is was a choooooore, to get the mix
like it should. Where as, in the two forementioned DAWs, a peice of cake.
note: The producer used Cubase SX 3.x to cut tracks. He was not satisfied
with his premix results, that's why he called me to mix the prject in Paris..
Well, me thinking he did not know what he was doing, arrangantly, I started
mixing in Nuendo,foregoing his directive.
Well, after a good 6 hours of struggling to get that Radio R&B sound which
is either all PT, PT/SSl or 2inch/PT/SSL..boywa I in trouble..There was no
way I was going to get those results with Nuendo..Also, version 3 of both
SX/Nuendo sounds different than version 1 or 2. Version 1 & 2 has more crunch
sound..Version 3 has a nice smooth sound thats's not for agressive type of
music per say. .. Not saying you can;t get the sound using Nuendo/SX(ITB)
inthe box, but it's a chore..
Well, I hope that explains some things..Take care.
-
-
"Neil" <OIUIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>Lamont, I have to disagree with you to a certain extent... I'm
>using CubaseSX (version 1.06, which I've heard, alternately from
>different sources, that it does have the same sound engine as
>Nuendo, and that it also does not, but in any case, if it does
>not, then I'm sure the one in Nuendo is better), and I don't get
>this smearing you're talking about - even at track counts in the
>36-40+ range (IIRC, 42 tracks is the highest I've needed thus
>far). The only thing I've noticed about it is that when you do
>get into those higher track counts, the soundstage does have a
>tendency to collapse a tiny bit... a few percentage points at
>most, though, and that can be remedied by exporting four or five
>stereo stems.
>
>
>A few questions:
>What resolution are you recording at where you're hearing this
>smearing? I use 24-bit/88.2k, and I've got 2 or 3 songs with
>track counts in the high 30's with probably 20 or so plug-in's
>going, and I'm not hearing anything like this. Do you think it
>could be your PC on the verge of bogging down at those levels of
>demand? What's your VST Performance Meter look like in those
>cases? Around 90% or higher? Also are you using time-based
>plugin's like reverbs & delays as insert plugin's on individual
>channels, or are you using them across group channels in a
>send/return fashion?
>
>Inquiring minds want to know.
>
>Neil
>
>
>
>
>"lamont" jjdpro#amerietch.net wrote:
>>
>>Hey Dedric,
>>they way I nad other cut and mix R & B/Gospel baking vocals is have at
>least
>>4-8 layers per note. I go for 6 usually times 4 part harmony = 24 tracks
>>of balck vocals..Not including the MPC drums tracks=12-16 tracks..Lead
Vocals..=2
>>, Keyss 4 tracks, Bass =2 tracks, Guitars 2-3 tracks....
>>
>>Now mix this many tracks in nuendo fine, until youstart add plugins..That's
>>when things start getting crazy.. Levels not matching, distortion fron
tracks..Track
>>balancing becomes off kilter.. YOu speed so much time just trying to put
>>out fires that you lose focus on the mix.. Then all of a sudden, here comes
>>that Nuendoi smearinng sound,..Nice and smooth..But, you're trying mix
agresiive
>>!@@@ARGG.... So, then you start making trade offs on masert fader levels
>>(-5bd).. And so on and so it goes.. TOOO Much work ..In _PAris and PT
,
>>could've been done in jiffy..
>>
>>
>>Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>FWIW, I'm producing a rap/R&B project in Nuendo - so far no problems getting
>>>it to sound really good. I see your point, and maybe there is a magic
>wall
>>>at 30-40 simultaneous tracks in 32-bit float, but I just don't see many
>>>projects needing that many tracks simultaneously - I can't recall what
>we
>>>had on the last song - it was stacked with doubled vocals, backgrounds
>>>doubled on the chorus, accents, individual instrument tracks, etc.
>>>
>>>A little well-placed subtractive EQ and a few other minor considerations
>>>usually keep things from getting out of hand.
>>>
>>>Can't speak for PTHD - haven't mixed on it yet.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Dedric
>>>
>>>On 1/3/06 10:55 AM, in article 43baac8e$1@linux, "LaMont"
>>><jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> about the state of current DAWs and what's working and what's not. Opinions
>>>> varied,but the one constant opinion that was stated was how dificult
>it
>>was
>>>> to mix in Cubase and Nuendo on mixes over 30 tracks. No matter what
i/o
>>>> converters(Apogee,Lucid,Motu,
>>>> RME) mixing Rock , R&B, Hip-Hop is a dificult chore in SX/Nuendo..Where
>>>> as mixing in Paris and Pro Tools is not..
>>>> Hey,Just one Engineer's opinon.
>>>>
>>>> P.S
>>>> Jsut for geekdum sakes, the new Sonar 5 uses a newly coded 64 to 32bit
>>>> floating
>>>> point mixer..
>>>>
>>>> "Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>>>> Yukkk,
>>>>> Don't do it..PT I mean.
>>>>> I've just been playing with PT M-Powered 6.8, using my Delta 1010,
and
>>I
>>>>
>>>>> have to say...I don't like it.
>>>>> The interface is (IMNSHO), horrible, confusing, and convoluted.
>>>>> Moves that come easily in Paris, and more easily in Nuendo, are tiresome
>>>> in
>>>>> PT, apart from the reagon tool...taht has always been good, right from
>>the
>>>>
>>>>> Session 8 days, but not much else.
>>>>> And..it only plays .MOV video files, which in my case is a no-no, (the
>>full
>>>>
>>>>> TDM version may play the others but I don't think so).
>>>>> To top it off, playing one of my projects from Nuendo, (reassembled),
>>it
>>>>
>>>>> didn't have the "life" that the original had, by a long shot.
>>>>> I repeat...don't go there, Jeff......
>>>>> --
>>>>> Martin Harrington
>>>>> www.lendanear-sound.com
>>>>>
>>>>> "jef knight" <thestudio@allknightmusic.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:436fce7a$1@linux...
>>>>>> I just read the doc, thanks for posting the link. Much of it is quite
>>>>>> interesting and just as much is confusing.
>>>>>> I didn't know tdm systems sounded gnarly, never having worked with
>one.
>>>> At
>>>>>> what track count would they sonically crap out?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I can't get some of my tedious little troubles with paris resolved
>>>> I'm
>>>>>> considering switching to protools.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> jef
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/WhitePaper_48BitMix er.pdf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any comments? It appears to me that the signals are recorded at 24
>>>>>>> bit, then processed at whatever bit rate the plugin on the channel
>>has,
>>>>>>> including dither, or not, then reprocessed to 24 bit, then these
channels
>>>>>>> are summed. I'm no guru when it comes to this stuff, but I get this
>>>>>>> feeling
>>>>>>> that this reprocessing *per channel* is the reason the TDM systems
>>seem
>>>> to
>>>>>>> start sounding gnarly as more and more tracks are summed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pro tools summing bus revealed? [message #62660 is a reply to message #62551] |
Sat, 07 January 2006 21:13 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hey Lamont - interesting. I have a similar setup with the tracks we are
doing (not quite as many BGVs, but close) - depends on the sound I'm going
for - choir/ensemble, more layers - pop, less. Rhythm tracks rarely benefit
more from layering than from sound design, so that's can become a toss up
depending on preference and workflow/approach.
Sounds to me like it could be a matter of pushing the headroom differently
across the spectrum. Nuendo and PT aren't that much different in terms of
dynamic headroom where we really hear it, even with the 48-bit vs. 32-float
comparison, but that has been a never ending debate.
If I had a PT HD rig and a Neve handy, I would do some direct A/B mixes to
see where the differences lie, and whether mix approach or the format makes
the biggest difference. I don't assume Nuendo is delivering everything I
would want from it when mixing, but I make it work.
I do have to wonder though (in general, not your specific example) - the
"wall of sound" approach has been demonstrated to reach a point of
diminishing returns, regardless of the platform (Asia / Geoff Downes
anyone?:). Most layers are only adding harmonic variation (hence spread and
dimension where 1 part would sound flat), but the frequency range is still
the same whether two or twenty parts are used on that note - just added
levels at different points than the original (a bit oversimplified). What
has to be kept under control is the gain across the spectrum (e.g. Soloist
vs. a choir on a note - very different sound, but not necessarily "more"
sound for the mix platform to handle, given a single pan setting).
How that could break down in one platform, but not another is a mystery to
me. I think it may be more complicated than 32-bit float vs. 48 fixed etc.
To me, Nuendo is more transparent than Paris was, but less forgiving on
pushing gain, and still plenty of headroom and punch when backing off a bit
to leave me room to work. That's where I ran into problems when first
working with it, but if I backed off the master and added a brick wall
limiter to prevent clipping, it has been working very nicely.
It might be interesting to compare our mix approaches on a test song
sometime. Perhaps when/if 128-bit/384k or DSD derived systems are our
mainstay, we'll discover that all of the above, including consoles that we
assumed were a proper reference point were in fact skewed and deficient much
more than we even feared.
Regards,
Dedric
On 1/6/06 12:50 AM, in article 43be132a$1@linux, "lamont"
<jjdpro#amerietch.net> wrote:
>
> Hey Dedric,
> they way I nad other cut and mix R & B/Gospel baking vocals is have at least
> 4-8 layers per note. I go for 6 usually times 4 part harmony = 24 tracks
> of balck vocals..Not including the MPC drums tracks=12-16 tracks..Lead
> Vocals..=2
> , Keyss 4 tracks, Bass =2 tracks, Guitars 2-3 tracks....
>
> Now mix this many tracks in nuendo fine, until youstart add plugins..That's
> when things start getting crazy.. Levels not matching, distortion fron
> tracks..Track
> balancing becomes off kilter.. YOu speed so much time just trying to put
> out fires that you lose focus on the mix.. Then all of a sudden, here comes
> that Nuendoi smearinng sound,..Nice and smooth..But, you're trying mix
> agresiive
> !@@@ARGG.... So, then you start making trade offs on masert fader levels
> (-5bd).. And so on and so it goes.. TOOO Much work ..In _PAris and PT ,
> could've been done in jiffy..
>
>
> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>> FWIW, I'm producing a rap/R&B project in Nuendo - so far no problems getting
>> it to sound really good. I see your point, and maybe there is a magic wall
>> at 30-40 simultaneous tracks in 32-bit float, but I just don't see many
>> projects needing that many tracks simultaneously - I can't recall what we
>> had on the last song - it was stacked with doubled vocals, backgrounds
>> doubled on the chorus, accents, individual instrument tracks, etc.
>>
>> A little well-placed subtractive EQ and a few other minor considerations
>> usually keep things from getting out of hand.
>>
>> Can't speak for PTHD - haven't mixed on it yet.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dedric
>>
>> On 1/3/06 10:55 AM, in article 43baac8e$1@linux, "LaMont"
>> <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>
>>> about the state of current DAWs and what's working and what's not. Opinions
>>> varied,but the one constant opinion that was stated was how dificult it
> was
>>> to mix in Cubase and Nuendo on mixes over 30 tracks. No matter what i/o
>>> converters(Apogee,Lucid,Motu,
>>> RME) mixing Rock , R&B, Hip-Hop is a dificult chore in SX/Nuendo..Where
>>> as mixing in Paris and Pro Tools is not..
>>> Hey,Just one Engineer's opinon.
>>>
>>> P.S
>>> Jsut for geekdum sakes, the new Sonar 5 uses a newly coded 64 to 32bit
>>> floating
>>> point mixer..
>>>
>>> "Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>>> Yukkk,
>>>> Don't do it..PT I mean.
>>>> I've just been playing with PT M-Powered 6.8, using my Delta 1010, and
> I
>>>
>>>> have to say...I don't like it.
>>>> The interface is (IMNSHO), horrible, confusing, and convoluted.
>>>> Moves that come easily in Paris, and more easily in Nuendo, are tiresome
>>> in
>>>> PT, apart from the reagon tool...taht has always been good, right from
> the
>>>
>>>> Session 8 days, but not much else.
>>>> And..it only plays .MOV video files, which in my case is a no-no, (the
> full
>>>
>>>> TDM version may play the others but I don't think so).
>>>> To top it off, playing one of my projects from Nuendo, (reassembled),
> it
>>>
>>>> didn't have the "life" that the original had, by a long shot.
>>>> I repeat...don't go there, Jeff......
>>>> --
>>>> Martin Harrington
>>>> www.lendanear-sound.com
>>>>
>>>> "jef knight" <thestudio@allknightmusic.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:436fce7a$1@linux...
>>>>> I just read the doc, thanks for posting the link. Much of it is quite
>>>>> interesting and just as much is confusing.
>>>>> I didn't know tdm systems sounded gnarly, never having worked with one.
>>> At
>>>>> what track count would they sonically crap out?
>>>>>
>>>>> If I can't get some of my tedious little troubles with paris resolved
>>> I'm
>>>>> considering switching to protools.
>>>>>
>>>>> jef
>>>>>
>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/WhitePaper_48BitMix er.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any comments? It appears to me that the signals are recorded at 24
>>>>>> bit, then processed at whatever bit rate the plugin on the channel
> has,
>>>>>> including dither, or not, then reprocessed to 24 bit, then these channels
>>>>>> are summed. I'm no guru when it comes to this stuff, but I get this
>>>>>> feeling
>>>>>> that this reprocessing *per channel* is the reason the TDM systems
> seem
>>> to
>>>>>> start sounding gnarly as more and more tracks are summed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pro tools summing bus revealed? [message #62661 is a reply to message #62648] |
Sun, 08 January 2006 00:04 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>
>Hey Neil,long time !!:)
>
>Well, lets get answering some your questions:
>
>-mixing 24bit files/44.1
OK, do you think some of the difference between what you're
getting & what I'm getting (with regard to results) might be
due to resolution differences?
>-no verbs or any timebased fx as inserts.
OK, was just wondering if that might've been clouding up the
matrix with too many sources of reflections, etc.
>-Vst metering= 65-70 percent
Better than what I'm acheiving on high track counts... I have a
couple of songs bridging on 90%, so that shouldn't be an issue
for you.
>-track were streaming from a firewire drive
Ah-HA!!!! I wonder if this might be an issue... Firewire is
definitively slower than a direct-bus IDE, or even USB-2. Have
you tried copying a complete project onto an IDE drive to see
if that makes a diffference in streamaing capacity? I'm not
certain that this can make a difference in sound quality, but
it might be worth a/b-ing. Theoretically, it shouldn't, but as
we've all found out in various scenarious, sometimes you just
never know.
>I think that you are on to something with consolidating tracks.
Yep, it really does work... Doug Oberkircher gave me a tip
about that here regarding a mix on an older (non-HD) PT
mix I was working on once, and also, I think Gene Lennon
has pointed this out before with regard to Nuendo or SX, as
well... if not Gene, then definitely someone else on this NG.
>I still the problem lies with the type of music R&B/Hip Hop, with 32 tracks
>of just backing vocals:) add on 12 tracks of MPC hard hitting beats, thunderous
>sytnth bass..Mannnnn!!:)
I don't think it's that genre in particular.... I think it's
just something to be dealt with in a different way in each
case - just like you don't use the same processing for rock vs.
country, maybe you just don't use the same style of mix
bussing procedures for R&B that might work well for another
genre. 54 tracks ain't huge, especially considering all those
tracks aren't going to be running all at once in the case of BG
Vox taking up 32 of 'em, so I think you should be able to make
it work in Nuendo... lemme ask you this: are the BG Vox tracks
split at various intervals, or are they one continuous file for
each track? If they're one continuous file, then that's sucking
CPU cycles & bandwidth that the mix buss doens't need to be
seeing all the time. THAT will make a difference, as it's still
trying to process them, even when there's no singing going on!
(Don't forget, if there's even -100db's worth of signal on
there when no one's singing on those tracks, all 32 of them are
still being processed through the mix buss!)
Neil
|
|
|
|
| Re: Pro tools summing bus revealed? [message #62665 is a reply to message #62660] |
Sun, 08 January 2006 01:33 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Good Points. :)
Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>Hey Lamont - interesting. I have a similar setup with the tracks we are
>doing (not quite as many BGVs, but close) - depends on the sound I'm going
>for - choir/ensemble, more layers - pop, less. Rhythm tracks rarely benefit
>more from layering than from sound design, so that's can become a toss up
>depending on preference and workflow/approach.
>
>Sounds to me like it could be a matter of pushing the headroom differently
>across the spectrum. Nuendo and PT aren't that much different in terms
of
>dynamic headroom where we really hear it, even with the 48-bit vs. 32-float
>comparison, but that has been a never ending debate.
>
>If I had a PT HD rig and a Neve handy, I would do some direct A/B mixes
to
>see where the differences lie, and whether mix approach or the format makes
>the biggest difference. I don't assume Nuendo is delivering everything
I
>would want from it when mixing, but I make it work.
>
>I do have to wonder though (in general, not your specific example) - the
>"wall of sound" approach has been demonstrated to reach a point of
>diminishing returns, regardless of the platform (Asia / Geoff Downes
>anyone?:). Most layers are only adding harmonic variation (hence spread
and
>dimension where 1 part would sound flat), but the frequency range is still
>the same whether two or twenty parts are used on that note - just added
>levels at different points than the original (a bit oversimplified). What
>has to be kept under control is the gain across the spectrum (e.g. Soloist
>vs. a choir on a note - very different sound, but not necessarily "more"
>sound for the mix platform to handle, given a single pan setting).
>
>How that could break down in one platform, but not another is a mystery
to
>me. I think it may be more complicated than 32-bit float vs. 48 fixed etc.
>To me, Nuendo is more transparent than Paris was, but less forgiving on
>pushing gain, and still plenty of headroom and punch when backing off a
bit
>to leave me room to work. That's where I ran into problems when first
>working with it, but if I backed off the master and added a brick wall
>limiter to prevent clipping, it has been working very nicely.
>
>It might be interesting to compare our mix approaches on a test song
>sometime. Perhaps when/if 128-bit/384k or DSD derived systems are our
>mainstay, we'll discover that all of the above, including consoles that
we
>assumed were a proper reference point were in fact skewed and deficient
much
>more than we even feared.
>
>Regards,
>Dedric
>
>On 1/6/06 12:50 AM, in article 43be132a$1@linux, "lamont"
><jjdpro#amerietch.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hey Dedric,
>> they way I nad other cut and mix R & B/Gospel baking vocals is have at
least
>> 4-8 layers per note. I go for 6 usually times 4 part harmony = 24 tracks
>> of balck vocals..Not including the MPC drums tracks=12-16 tracks..Lead
>> Vocals..=2
>> , Keyss 4 tracks, Bass =2 tracks, Guitars 2-3 tracks....
>>
>> Now mix this many tracks in nuendo fine, until youstart add plugins..That's
>> when things start getting crazy.. Levels not matching, distortion fron
>> tracks..Track
>> balancing becomes off kilter.. YOu speed so much time just trying to put
>> out fires that you lose focus on the mix.. Then all of a sudden, here
comes
>> that Nuendoi smearinng sound,..Nice and smooth..But, you're trying mix
>> agresiive
>> !@@@ARGG.... So, then you start making trade offs on masert fader levels
>> (-5bd).. And so on and so it goes.. TOOO Much work ..In _PAris and PT
,
>> could've been done in jiffy..
>>
>>
>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>> FWIW, I'm producing a rap/R&B project in Nuendo - so far no problems
getting
>>> it to sound really good. I see your point, and maybe there is a magic
wall
>>> at 30-40 simultaneous tracks in 32-bit float, but I just don't see many
>>> projects needing that many tracks simultaneously - I can't recall what
we
>>> had on the last song - it was stacked with doubled vocals, backgrounds
>>> doubled on the chorus, accents, individual instrument tracks, etc.
>>>
>>> A little well-placed subtractive EQ and a few other minor considerations
>>> usually keep things from getting out of hand.
>>>
>>> Can't speak for PTHD - haven't mixed on it yet.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dedric
>>>
>>> On 1/3/06 10:55 AM, in article 43baac8e$1@linux, "LaMont"
>>> <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> about the state of current DAWs and what's working and what's not. Opinions
>>>> varied,but the one constant opinion that was stated was how dificult
it
>> was
>>>> to mix in Cubase and Nuendo on mixes over 30 tracks. No matter what
i/o
>>>> converters(Apogee,Lucid,Motu,
>>>> RME) mixing Rock , R&B, Hip-Hop is a dificult chore in SX/Nuendo..Where
>>>> as mixing in Paris and Pro Tools is not..
>>>> Hey,Just one Engineer's opinon.
>>>>
>>>> P.S
>>>> Jsut for geekdum sakes, the new Sonar 5 uses a newly coded 64 to 32bit
>>>> floating
>>>> point mixer..
>>>>
>>>> "Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>>>> Yukkk,
>>>>> Don't do it..PT I mean.
>>>>> I've just been playing with PT M-Powered 6.8, using my Delta 1010,
and
>> I
>>>>
>>>>> have to say...I don't like it.
>>>>> The interface is (IMNSHO), horrible, confusing, and convoluted.
>>>>> Moves that come easily in Paris, and more easily in Nuendo, are tiresome
>>>> in
>>>>> PT, apart from the reagon tool...taht has always been good, right from
>> the
>>>>
>>>>> Session 8 days, but not much else.
>>>>> And..it only plays .MOV video files, which in my case is a no-no, (the
>> full
>>>>
>>>>> TDM version may play the others but I don't think so).
>>>>> To top it off, playing one of my projects from Nuendo, (reassembled),
>> it
>>>>
>>>>> didn't have the "life" that the original had, by a long shot.
>>>>> I repeat...don't go there, Jeff......
>>>>> --
>>>>> Martin Harrington
>>>>> www.lendanear-sound.com
>>>>>
>>>>> "jef knight" <thestudio@allknightmusic.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:436fce7a$1@linux...
>>>>>> I just read the doc, thanks for posting the link. Much of it is quite
>>>>>> interesting and just as much is confusing.
>>>>>> I didn't know tdm systems sounded gnarly, never having worked with
one.
>>>> At
>>>>>> what track count would they sonically crap out?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I can't get some of my tedious little troubles with paris resolved
>>>> I'm
>>>>>> considering switching to protools.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> jef
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/WhitePaper_48BitMix er.pdf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any comments? It appears to me that the signals are recorded at 24
>>>>>>> bit, then processed at whatever bit rate the plugin on the channel
>> has,
>>>>>>> including dither, or not, then reprocessed to 24 bit, then these
channels
>>>>>>> are summed. I'm no guru when it comes to this stuff, but I get this
>>>>>>> feeling
>>>>>>> that this reprocessing *per channel* is the reason the TDM systems
>> seem
>>>> to
>>>>>>> start sounding gnarly as more and more tracks are summed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
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