Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Mackie Onyx Satellite FireWire Audio Interface
| Mackie Onyx Satellite FireWire Audio Interface [message #94827] |
Thu, 17 January 2008 13:57  |
Ed
Messages: 199
Registered: February 2006
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Senior Member |
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Hi folks. Anyone got one of these.. tested it, etc?
I am not unhappy with my Paris, but I am thinking of moving to this type
of FW device... mainly for the surround sound mixing. And if that works,
I'd want to track and record in it too.
I read piles of reviews... but they all seam'd generic. I haven't really
seen a good review of taking it for a real test on a Pent 4 or other processors.
I see it requires XP, but are there talks about Vista support? Appreciate
a little detail on what you found. Not just the... yeah man, it's ok...
lol.
Thanks... ~ Ed
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| Re: Mackie Onyx Satellite FireWire Audio Interface [message #94896 is a reply to message #94856] |
Fri, 18 January 2008 15:43  |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
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Senior Member |
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I'm on that list. I'm about to take over a position whereas I'll be
responsible for the in the field mixers.. basically put, 4 to 12 ish
channels each. Mackie is straight up crossed off on my list. If I want QC
issues and chinese build, I may as well get a Behringer, yano?
Now, the master control mixer... that's another line completely. I think I'm
going to consider my first Yamaha mixer, ever... they've come a long long
ways since I've bought a new one. The LS9 is unbelievably good for what I'm
going for... heads up post dudes, this thing has smokin' features. Among the
'cool' catagory, Alesis has a little video iPOD capable 7 or 8 channel mixer
that I might be buying into also.
AA
"Neil" <OIOI@OI.com> wrote in message news:4790b8a0$1@linux...
>
> Obviously, no one's tried it here.
>
> With the exception of monitors, this board seems to mostly
> consist of Mackie avoiders.
>
> Neil
>
>
> "Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote:
>>
>>Wow! I am overwhelmed! Nevermind!
>>
>>
>>"Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Hi folks. Anyone got one of these.. tested it, etc?
>>>
>>>I am not unhappy with my Paris, but I am thinking of moving to this type
>>>of FW device... mainly for the surround sound mixing. And if that works,
>>>I'd want to track and record in it too.
>>>
>>>I read piles of reviews... but they all seam'd generic. I haven't really
>>>seen a good review of taking it for a real test on a Pent 4 or other
>>>processors.
>>> I see it requires XP, but are there talks about Vista support?
>>> Appreciate
>>>a little detail on what you found. Not just the... yeah man, it's ok...
>>>lol.
>>>
>>>Thanks... ~ Ed
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: Mackie Onyx Satellite FireWire Audio Interface [message #94904 is a reply to message #94898] |
Fri, 18 January 2008 17:23 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
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Senior Member |
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Not strictly, per se.. but it's a situation that calls for many simlarities
in workflow and design.
I'm currently cramming knowledge on SoundWeb, fibre knowledge, wireless
technology, A/V relationships, current camera tech, remote control via
ethernet, master control scenarios, and of course one of my current
projects... security camera technology.
I'm stayin' pretty dang swamped these days.
AA
"Neil" <OIOI@OI.com> wrote in message news:47914963$1@linux...
>
> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>I'm on that list. I'm about to take over a position whereas I'll be
>>responsible for the in the field mixers.. basically put, 4 to 12 ish
>>channels each.
>
> You going to work for a TV station, Aaron?
>
> Neil
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| Re: Mackie Onyx Satellite FireWire Audio Interface [message #94912 is a reply to message #94908] |
Sat, 19 January 2008 00:07 |
Martin Harrington
Messages: 560
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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On 19/1/08 2:24 PM, in article 47917104@linux, "Aaron Allen"
<know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
> I'm already having a blast with it. I'm amazed at what options can come with
> a little dinky 2~4 mic pre mixer. One of them I'm looking at actually has a
> digital 3 band fully parametric digital EQ (Edirol). One has a room EQ curve
> auto correction DSP. It's sick what $400-$700 can buy, but I'm loving every
> bit of it spec'ing this stuff up to use.
> Martin, I may have some questions as we move along... if that's cool?
>
> AA
>
>
> "Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> news:C3B7AF74.3B13%lendan@bigpond.net.au...
>> On 19/1/08 12:50 PM, in article 47914963$1@linux, "Neil" <OIOI@OI.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>>> I'm on that list. I'm about to take over a position whereas I'll be
>>>> responsible for the in the field mixers.. basically put, 4 to 12 ish
>>>> channels each.
>>>
>>> You going to work for a TV station, Aaron?
>>>
>>> Neil
>>
>> Hay Aaron.
>> That's my daily gig...using those mixers, mainly the 4 channel ENG / EFP
>> (SD
>> 442 type) kind, the kind you find on small film / commercial and reality
>> shoots.
>> Quite different set of skills than in a studio...just wait till you get to
>> play with radio mics and frequencies and stuff.
>> Have fun.
>> Martin H
>>
>
>
Ask away..been doing it since I stopped recording music really..about 24
years or so..
Martin H
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| Re: Mackie Onyx Satellite FireWire Audio Interface [message #94971 is a reply to message #94896] |
Mon, 21 January 2008 08:41 |
EK Sound
Messages: 939
Registered: June 2005
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Senior Member |
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Yup, the LS9 is pretty cool! Huge bang for the buck factor and sounds
great! Actually, the A/D board is the *same* for all the live consoles
from the LS9 to the PM5D-RH. For post, the O2R96 still beats it because
of the monitoring section.
David.
PS, I am also on the "will never buy another Mackie product" list.
Aaron Allen wrote:
> I'm on that list. I'm about to take over a position whereas I'll be
> responsible for the in the field mixers.. basically put, 4 to 12 ish
> channels each. Mackie is straight up crossed off on my list. If I want QC
> issues and chinese build, I may as well get a Behringer, yano?
> Now, the master control mixer... that's another line completely. I think I'm
> going to consider my first Yamaha mixer, ever... they've come a long long
> ways since I've bought a new one. The LS9 is unbelievably good for what I'm
> going for... heads up post dudes, this thing has smokin' features. Among the
> 'cool' catagory, Alesis has a little video iPOD capable 7 or 8 channel mixer
> that I might be buying into also.
>
> AA
>
>
> "Neil" <OIOI@OI.com> wrote in message news:4790b8a0$1@linux...
>
>>Obviously, no one's tried it here.
>>
>>With the exception of monitors, this board seems to mostly
>>consist of Mackie avoiders.
>>
>>Neil
>>
>>
>>"Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Wow! I am overwhelmed! Nevermind!
>>>
>>>
>>>"Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi folks. Anyone got one of these.. tested it, etc?
>>>>
>>>>I am not unhappy with my Paris, but I am thinking of moving to this type
>>>>of FW device... mainly for the surround sound mixing. And if that works,
>>>>I'd want to track and record in it too.
>>>>
>>>>I read piles of reviews... but they all seam'd generic. I haven't really
>>>>seen a good review of taking it for a real test on a Pent 4 or other
>>>>processors.
>>>>I see it requires XP, but are there talks about Vista support?
>>>>Appreciate
>>>>a little detail on what you found. Not just the... yeah man, it's ok...
>>>>lol.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks... ~ Ed
>>>>
>>>
>
>
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| Re: Mackie Onyx Satellite FireWire Audio Interface [message #94972 is a reply to message #94904] |
Mon, 21 January 2008 08:43 |
EK Sound
Messages: 939
Registered: June 2005
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Senior Member |
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Sounds like a church gig to me... ;-)
David.
Aaron Allen wrote:
> Not strictly, per se.. but it's a situation that calls for many simlarities
> in workflow and design.
> I'm currently cramming knowledge on SoundWeb, fibre knowledge, wireless
> technology, A/V relationships, current camera tech, remote control via
> ethernet, master control scenarios, and of course one of my current
> projects... security camera technology.
> I'm stayin' pretty dang swamped these days.
>
>
> AA
>
>
> "Neil" <OIOI@OI.com> wrote in message news:47914963$1@linux...
>
>>"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>
>>>I'm on that list. I'm about to take over a position whereas I'll be
>>>responsible for the in the field mixers.. basically put, 4 to 12 ish
>>>channels each.
>>
>>You going to work for a TV station, Aaron?
>>
>>Neil
>
>
>
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| Re: Mackie Onyx Satellite FireWire Audio Interface [message #94984 is a reply to message #94972] |
Mon, 21 January 2008 16:17 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
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Senior Member |
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very, very similar but our main focus is on Emergency Broadcast System on a
local gov't level.
AA
"EK Sound" <ask_me@nospam.net> wrote in message news:4794cf40@linux...
> Sounds like a church gig to me... ;-)
>
> David.
>
> Aaron Allen wrote:
>
>> Not strictly, per se.. but it's a situation that calls for many
>> simlarities in workflow and design.
>> I'm currently cramming knowledge on SoundWeb, fibre knowledge, wireless
>> technology, A/V relationships, current camera tech, remote control via
>> ethernet, master control scenarios, and of course one of my current
>> projects... security camera technology.
>> I'm stayin' pretty dang swamped these days.
>>
>>
>> AA
>>
>>
>> "Neil" <OIOI@OI.com> wrote in message news:47914963$1@linux...
>>
>>>"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'm on that list. I'm about to take over a position whereas I'll be
>>>>responsible for the in the field mixers.. basically put, 4 to 12 ish
>>>>channels each.
>>>
>>>You going to work for a TV station, Aaron?
>>>
>>>Neil
>>
>>
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| Re: Mackie Onyx Satellite FireWire Audio Interface [message #94997 is a reply to message #94973] |
Tue, 22 January 2008 09:32 |
AA
Messages: 18
Registered: June 2007
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Junior Member |
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Pretty sweet, but I have to ask.... price and local support in Tulsa OK?
AA
EK Sound <ask_me@nospam.net> wrote:
>Bah! THIS is what REAL MEN use for location work ;-)
>
>http://www.audiodevelopments.com/B6.htm
>
>Built like tanks...
>
>I do the servicing for this stuff locally..
>
>David.
>
>Aaron Allen wrote:
>
>> I'm already having a blast with it. I'm amazed at what options can come
with
>> a little dinky 2~4 mic pre mixer. One of them I'm looking at actually
has a
>> digital 3 band fully parametric digital EQ (Edirol). One has a room EQ
curve
>> auto correction DSP. It's sick what $400-$700 can buy, but I'm loving
every
>> bit of it spec'ing this stuff up to use.
>> Martin, I may have some questions as we move along... if that's cool?
>>
>> AA
>>
>>
>> "Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
>> news:C3B7AF74.3B13%lendan@bigpond.net.au...
>>
>>>On 19/1/08 12:50 PM, in article 47914963$1@linux, "Neil" <OIOI@OI.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I'm on that list. I'm about to take over a position whereas I'll be
>>>>>responsible for the in the field mixers.. basically put, 4 to 12 ish
>>>>>channels each.
>>>>
>>>>You going to work for a TV station, Aaron?
>>>>
>>>>Neil
>>>
>>>Hay Aaron.
>>>That's my daily gig...using those mixers, mainly the 4 channel ENG / EFP
>>>(SD
>>>442 type) kind, the kind you find on small film / commercial and reality
>>>shoots.
>>>Quite different set of skills than in a studio...just wait till you get
to
>>>play with radio mics and frequencies and stuff.
>>>Have fun.
>>>Martin H
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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| Re: Mackie Onyx Satellite FireWire Audio Interface [message #95000 is a reply to message #94997] |
Tue, 22 January 2008 08:39 |
EK Sound
Messages: 939
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
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Price... if you have to ask.... :-P (probably about $12K US) As for
service, send her on up and I'll look after it for you! ;-) Two
location guys in town have this one, they rival the best studio boards
for sound.
David.
AA wrote:
> Pretty sweet, but I have to ask.... price and local support in Tulsa OK?
>
>
> AA
>
> EK Sound <ask_me@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>>Bah! THIS is what REAL MEN use for location work ;-)
>>
>>http://www.audiodevelopments.com/B6.htm
>>
>>Built like tanks...
>>
>>I do the servicing for this stuff locally..
>>
>>David.
>>
>>Aaron Allen wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I'm already having a blast with it. I'm amazed at what options can come
>
> with
>
>>>a little dinky 2~4 mic pre mixer. One of them I'm looking at actually
>
> has a
>
>>>digital 3 band fully parametric digital EQ (Edirol). One has a room EQ
>
> curve
>
>>>auto correction DSP. It's sick what $400-$700 can buy, but I'm loving
>
> every
>
>>>bit of it spec'ing this stuff up to use.
>>>Martin, I may have some questions as we move along... if that's cool?
>>>
>>>AA
>>>
>>>
>>>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
>>>news:C3B7AF74.3B13%lendan@bigpond.net.au...
>>>
>>>
>>>>On 19/1/08 12:50 PM, in article 47914963$1@linux, "Neil" <OIOI@OI.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm on that list. I'm about to take over a position whereas I'll be
>>>>>>responsible for the in the field mixers.. basically put, 4 to 12 ish
>>>>>>channels each.
>>>>>
>>>>>You going to work for a TV station, Aaron?
>>>>>
>>>>>Neil
>>>>
>>>>Hay Aaron.
>>>>That's my daily gig...using those mixers, mainly the 4 channel ENG / EFP
>
>
>>>>(SD
>>>>442 type) kind, the kind you find on small film / commercial and reality
>>>>shoots.
>>>>Quite different set of skills than in a studio...just wait till you get
>
> to
>
>>>>play with radio mics and frequencies and stuff.
>>>>Have fun.
>>>>Martin H
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
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| Re: Mackie Onyx Satellite FireWire Audio Interface [message #95008 is a reply to message #94973] |
Tue, 22 January 2008 14:21 |
Martin Harrington
Messages: 560
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
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On 22/1/08 3:46 AM, in article 4794d003@linux, "EK Sound"
<ask_me@nospam.net> wrote:
> Bah! THIS is what REAL MEN use for location work ;-)
>
> http://www.audiodevelopments.com/B6.htm
>
> Built like tanks...
>
> I do the servicing for this stuff locally..
>
> David.
>
> Aaron Allen wrote:
>
>> I'm already having a blast with it. I'm amazed at what options can come with
>> a little dinky 2~4 mic pre mixer. One of them I'm looking at actually has a
>> digital 3 band fully parametric digital EQ (Edirol). One has a room EQ curve
>> auto correction DSP. It's sick what $400-$700 can buy, but I'm loving every
>> bit of it spec'ing this stuff up to use.
>> Martin, I may have some questions as we move along... if that's cool?
>>
>> AA
>>
>>
>> "Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
>> news:C3B7AF74.3B13%lendan@bigpond.net.au...
>>
>>> On 19/1/08 12:50 PM, in article 47914963$1@linux, "Neil" <OIOI@OI.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm on that list. I'm about to take over a position whereas I'll be
>>>>> responsible for the in the field mixers.. basically put, 4 to 12 ish
>>>>> channels each.
>>>>
>>>> You going to work for a TV station, Aaron?
>>>>
>>>> Neil
>>>
>>> Hay Aaron.
>>> That's my daily gig...using those mixers, mainly the 4 channel ENG / EFP
>>> (SD
>>> 442 type) kind, the kind you find on small film / commercial and reality
>>> shoots.
>>> Quite different set of skills than in a studio...just wait till you get to
>>> play with radio mics and frequencies and stuff.
>>> Have fun.
>>> Martin H
>>>
>>
>>
>>
That's true, used one many times, but not for your run of the mill TV work.
They're used mainly in Film drama and some commercial work.
Martin H
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| Re: Mackie Onyx Satellite FireWire Audio Interface [message #95009 is a reply to message #95000] |
Tue, 22 January 2008 14:30 |
Martin Harrington
Messages: 560
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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On 23/1/08 3:39 AM, in article 47961fba@linux, "EK Sound"
<ask_me@nospam.net> wrote:
> Price... if you have to ask.... :-P (probably about $12K US) As for
> service, send her on up and I'll look after it for you! ;-) Two
> location guys in town have this one, they rival the best studio boards
> for sound.
>
> David.
>
> AA wrote:
>> Pretty sweet, but I have to ask.... price and local support in Tulsa OK?
>>
>>
>> AA
>>
>> EK Sound <ask_me@nospam.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Bah! THIS is what REAL MEN use for location work ;-)
>>>
>>> http://www.audiodevelopments.com/B6.htm
>>>
>>> Built like tanks...
>>>
>>> I do the servicing for this stuff locally..
>>>
>>> David.
>>>
>>> Aaron Allen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'm already having a blast with it. I'm amazed at what options can come
>>
>> with
>>
>>>> a little dinky 2~4 mic pre mixer. One of them I'm looking at actually
>>
>> has a
>>
>>>> digital 3 band fully parametric digital EQ (Edirol). One has a room EQ
>>
>> curve
>>
>>>> auto correction DSP. It's sick what $400-$700 can buy, but I'm loving
>>
>> every
>>
>>>> bit of it spec'ing this stuff up to use.
>>>> Martin, I may have some questions as we move along... if that's cool?
>>>>
>>>> AA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
>>>> news:C3B7AF74.3B13%lendan@bigpond.net.au...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 19/1/08 12:50 PM, in article 47914963$1@linux, "Neil" <OIOI@OI.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm on that list. I'm about to take over a position whereas I'll be
>>>>>>> responsible for the in the field mixers.. basically put, 4 to 12 ish
>>>>>>> channels each.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You going to work for a TV station, Aaron?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Neil
>>>>>
>>>>> Hay Aaron.
>>>>> That's my daily gig...using those mixers, mainly the 4 channel ENG / EFP
>>
>>
>>>>> (SD
>>>>> 442 type) kind, the kind you find on small film / commercial and reality
>>>>> shoots.
>>>>> Quite different set of skills than in a studio...just wait till you get
>>
>> to
>>
>>>>> play with radio mics and frequencies and stuff.
>>>>> Have fun.
>>>>> Martin H
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
But..
You'd only use them on a cart..not for average "run & gun ' situations,
where the mixer is over your shoulder. Ie SD 442 or Sony DMX-PO1 or Shure FP
33.
See http://www.trewaudio.com/feat_item.htm
Martin H
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| Re: Mackie Onyx Satellite FireWire Audio Interface [message #95025 is a reply to message #95020] |
Wed, 23 January 2008 17:30 |
Martin Harrington
Messages: 560
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 24/1/08 3:37 AM, in article 479770d5@linux, "EK Sound"
<ask_me@nospam.net> wrote:
> The entire 700 MHz band is up for sale. This affects all the wireless
> manufacturers. Shure has been lobbying quite heavily to prevent this.
> Even Broadway and Hollywood have gotten into the act. The pro audio
> industry is so tiny, that it doesn't have the clout to do anything about
> it. Companies like Verizon (currently a husge problem for RF mics) will
> probably buy the band. Sennheiser has recently announced that they will
> only make 700MHz range wireless now by special order. That means they
> are losing their "C" and "D" wireless ranges.
>
> Get ready to buy more mic cable...
>
> David.
>
> AA wrote:
>> I heard something yesterday that's probably going to hack me off, and most
>> assuredly a LOT of musician's in the states. Apparantly according to one
>> source once HD tv hits a lot of the UHF band is going to get sold off by
>> the gov't and turn into a crowded gigantic hash... which will ruin a LOT
>> of wireless mics/body packs for a lot of folks.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>> Hay Aaron.
>>>>>> That's my daily gig...using those mixers, mainly the 4 channel ENG /
>>
>> EFP
>>
>>>>>> (SD
>>>>>> 442 type) kind, the kind you find on small film / commercial and reality
>>>>>> shoots.
>>>>>> Quite different set of skills than in a studio...just wait till you
>>
>> get to
>>
>>>>>> play with radio mics and frequencies and stuff.
>>>>>> Have fun.
>>>>>> Martin H
>>
>>
The only way to fight this, and I think it's already underway, is to inform
the pollies that without radio mics, and applicable frequencies, there will
be NO MORE DOORSTOPS, no more PRESSS CONFERENCES, and no more fast ways for
them to get their propaganda out to the masses, not to mention all the
Broadway, and equivalent shows out there around the world.
It's not only happening in the States, but here in Australia, and the UK.
I don't really mind, as I hate the things, always problematic, but I do have
many, many thousands of dollars tied up in them.
Interesting times ahead.
Martin H
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| Re: Mackie Onyx Satellite FireWire Audio Interface [message #95026 is a reply to message #95025] |
Wed, 23 January 2008 17:43 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
no doubt about it being interesting times ahead. This will be ugly on many
levels.
AA
"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:C3BE355B.3EE4%lendan@bigpond.net.au...
> On 24/1/08 3:37 AM, in article 479770d5@linux, "EK Sound"
> <ask_me@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>> The entire 700 MHz band is up for sale. This affects all the wireless
>> manufacturers. Shure has been lobbying quite heavily to prevent this.
>> Even Broadway and Hollywood have gotten into the act. The pro audio
>> industry is so tiny, that it doesn't have the clout to do anything about
>> it. Companies like Verizon (currently a huge problem for RF mics) will
>> probably buy the band. Sennheiser has recently announced that they will
>> only make 700MHz range wireless now by special order. That means they
>> are losing their "C" and "D" wireless ranges.
>>
>> Get ready to buy more mic cable...
>>
>> David.
>>
>> AA wrote:
>>> I heard something yesterday that's probably going to hack me off, and
>>> most
>>> assuredly a LOT of musician's in the states. Apparantly according to one
>>> source once HD tv hits a lot of the UHF band is going to get sold off by
>>> the gov't and turn into a crowded gigantic hash... which will ruin a LOT
>>> of wireless mics/body packs for a lot of folks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> Hay Aaron.
>>>>>>> That's my daily gig...using those mixers, mainly the 4 channel ENG /
>>>
>>> EFP
>>>
>>>>>>> (SD
>>>>>>> 442 type) kind, the kind you find on small film / commercial and
>>>>>>> reality
>>>>>>> shoots.
>>>>>>> Quite different set of skills than in a studio...just wait till you
>>>
>>> get to
>>>
>>>>>>> play with radio mics and frequencies and stuff.
>>>>>>> Have fun.
>>>>>>> Martin H
>>>
>>>
>
> The only way to fight this, and I think it's already underway, is to
> inform
> the pollies that without radio mics, and applicable frequencies, there
> will
> be NO MORE DOORSTOPS, no more PRESSS CONFERENCES, and no more fast ways
> for
> them to get their propaganda out to the masses, not to mention all the
> Broadway, and equivalent shows out there around the world.
> It's not only happening in the States, but here in Australia, and the UK.
> I don't really mind, as I hate the things, always problematic, but I do
> have
> many, many thousands of dollars tied up in them.
> Interesting times ahead.
> Martin H
>
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