Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar
| OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #94994] |
Tue, 22 January 2008 06:13  |
ottawarocks
Messages: 12
Registered: September 2005
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Junior Member |
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I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic (with
electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be converging towards a
Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for any
potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier, I don't think
I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a reference, the 714CE
would cost around $2800). I don't know many luthiers, and the ones I do know
have a worldwide reputation (and are therefore not making guitars for
$2800 - more like $5k and up).
While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the Martin
OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be incredibly ugly, but
quite playable, although the action is typical Martin (i.e. high action, a
guitar that you have to dig in hard). Since I play mostly electric, the nice
low action of Taylors is appealing to me.
Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or specific, good or
bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
Thanks,
Dan
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| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #94998 is a reply to message #94994] |
Tue, 22 January 2008 08:24  |
Bill L
Messages: 766
Registered: August 2006
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Senior Member |
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Personally, I love Taylors, but I'm far from an expert in this area.
They do have the much touted Neve pickup system, which has been well
reviewed.
You might also look at the Taylor model that is a hybrid
acoustic/electric. If you are using it live, then this might be a good
choice. Very playable and sounds pretty decent in both acoustic and
electric modes, although it will never replace your Strat or Les Paul.
D.P. wrote:
> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic (with
> electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be converging towards a
> Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>
> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for any
> potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier, I don't think
> I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a reference, the 714CE
> would cost around $2800). I don't know many luthiers, and the ones I do know
> have a worldwide reputation (and are therefore not making guitars for
> $2800 - more like $5k and up).
>
> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the Martin
> OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be incredibly ugly, but
> quite playable, although the action is typical Martin (i.e. high action, a
> guitar that you have to dig in hard). Since I play mostly electric, the nice
> low action of Taylors is appealing to me.
>
> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or specific, good or
> bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
>
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| Re: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #94999 is a reply to message #94994] |
Tue, 22 January 2008 08:51 |
tonehouse
Messages: 184
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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A key factor is what kind of music you want to play on the "acoustic
electric" If you play Bluegrass,it's different than if you play Jazz..You
can make a "AE" out of any acoustic guitar...thare are many good sounding
systems out there to install (Baggs,Fishman etc)...Taylors are good...but
they don't hold up well if you travel much..(I've had 3 of them,sold them
all ) Check out some of the top of the line Takamines,Seagull,Collings...The
Taylor hybrid is cool...but the good ones are very expensive..the lower ones
suck (imho)
"D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote in message news:4795fd73@linux...
> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic (with
> electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be converging towards
a
> Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>
> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for any
> potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier, I don't think
> I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a reference, the 714CE
> would cost around $2800). I don't know many luthiers, and the ones I do
know
> have a worldwide reputation (and are therefore not making guitars for
> $2800 - more like $5k and up).
>
> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the Martin
> OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be incredibly ugly, but
> quite playable, although the action is typical Martin (i.e. high action, a
> guitar that you have to dig in hard). Since I play mostly electric, the
nice
> low action of Taylors is appealing to me.
>
> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or specific, good
or
> bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
>
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| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95001 is a reply to message #94994] |
Tue, 22 January 2008 09:56 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
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Senior Member |
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A Collings 12 fret to the neck 00-18 and a mic ;-)
I'd try out a Breedlove before settling on the Taylor for sure. Very nice,
modern guitar, not a Martin/Gibson copy. They make some in the price range
you're talking about.
TCB
"D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote:
>I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic (with
>electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be converging towards
a
>Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>
>Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for any
>potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier, I don't think
>I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a reference, the 714CE
>would cost around $2800). I don't know many luthiers, and the ones I do
know
>have a worldwide reputation (and are therefore not making guitars for
>$2800 - more like $5k and up).
>
>While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the Martin
>OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be incredibly ugly, but
>quite playable, although the action is typical Martin (i.e. high action,
a
>guitar that you have to dig in hard). Since I play mostly electric, the
nice
>low action of Taylors is appealing to me.
>
>Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or specific, good
or
>bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>
>Thanks,
>Dan
>
>
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| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95002 is a reply to message #94994] |
Tue, 22 January 2008 10:29 |
Mark McDermott
Messages: 204
Registered: February 2006
Location: Portland, OR
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Senior Member |
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DP,
The Taylors you mention are both fine guitars. I own a 410ce and a 356ce
12-string and absolutely love them.
I think you'll find that once you get to the 400-series that there isn't
a tremendous difference in overall sound, but more subtle differences due
to the tone woods.
However, 400-series up will get you the "Taylor" sound. Really useful, especially
if you're planning on playing acoustic leads.
My duo partner plays a very high-end Guild, which has a much more rounded
and mellow sound as compared to the Taylor. The two instruments sound great
together.
BTW, I went to the store with cash in hand to buy my first Martin and I left
with my first Taylor!
Hope this helps.
Mark
"D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote:
>I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic (with
>electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be converging towards
a
>Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>
>Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for any
>potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier, I don't think
>I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a reference, the 714CE
>would cost around $2800). I don't know many luthiers, and the ones I do
know
>have a worldwide reputation (and are therefore not making guitars for
>$2800 - more like $5k and up).
>
>While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the Martin
>OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be incredibly ugly, but
>quite playable, although the action is typical Martin (i.e. high action,
a
>guitar that you have to dig in hard). Since I play mostly electric, the
nice
>low action of Taylors is appealing to me.
>
>Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or specific, good
or
>bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>
>Thanks,
>Dan
>
>
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| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95006 is a reply to message #94994] |
Tue, 22 January 2008 10:43 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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For live acoustic guitar gigs I currently use a Line 6 Variax 700
Acoustic modeling guitar. This is the one that looks like an acoustic
guitar, not the PRS-ish looking electric 700 version, although I have
one of those too.
The acoustic 700 VAX sounds quite good through the PA. It doesn't feed
back. Even when using the built-in compressor which is really nice to
use on fingerpicked songs.
Acoustically it's fairly quiet, good for late night practicing without
waking anyone. But without plugging it in, it's not a booming
sing-around-the-campfire acoustic guitar.
It has multiple guitar models to choose from including several that are
bread and butter, plus a few non-guitar models like banjo, sitar and
mandella.
It also can do alternate tunings on the fly (via DSP so not quite as
great as tuning them yourself, but for live it's fine and - important
for shows - instant). It can also imitate a 12 string (again via DSP).
It looks good, with nice grain on the top. It's has a shallow body. It
plays well. The upper strings have 24 frets, very rare for an acoustic.
It's more affordable than a high-end acoustic, and therefore less of a
risk at gigs. It sounds as good or better through a PA than any other
acoustic guitar I've heard.
The only acoustic guitar thing it doesn't do well is body slaps, which
is probably why it never feeds back.
The output is mono. I do use it for recording direct sometimes. It sits
nicely in the track and is good for L/R panned part doubling using
different models.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
D.P. wrote:
> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic (with
> electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be converging towards a
> Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>
> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for any
> potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier, I don't think
> I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a reference, the 714CE
> would cost around $2800). I don't know many luthiers, and the ones I do know
> have a worldwide reputation (and are therefore not making guitars for
> $2800 - more like $5k and up).
>
> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the Martin
> OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be incredibly ugly, but
> quite playable, although the action is typical Martin (i.e. high action, a
> guitar that you have to dig in hard). Since I play mostly electric, the nice
> low action of Taylors is appealing to me.
>
> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or specific, good or
> bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
>
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| Re: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95007 is a reply to message #94994] |
Tue, 22 January 2008 12:45 |
AlexPlasko
Messages: 211
Registered: September 2006
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Senior Member |
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you might want to check out the Roland VG99. killer acoustic models.
"D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote in message news:4795fd73@linux...
> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic (with
> electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be converging towards
> a Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>
> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for any
> potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier, I don't think
> I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a reference, the 714CE
> would cost around $2800). I don't know many luthiers, and the ones I do
> know have a worldwide reputation (and are therefore not making guitars for
> $2800 - more like $5k and up).
>
> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the Martin
> OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be incredibly ugly, but
> quite playable, although the action is typical Martin (i.e. high action, a
> guitar that you have to dig in hard). Since I play mostly electric, the
> nice low action of Taylors is appealing to me.
>
> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or specific, good
> or bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
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| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95011 is a reply to message #94994] |
Tue, 22 January 2008 18:46 |
Ted Gerber
Messages: 705
Registered: January 2009
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Senior Member |
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HIDan-
The Taylor 714 is a very nice guitar. Taylors are actually pretty good for
amping and recording, they're well balanced. I had a 612 C- 3 part back,
all maple,
and it was a great guitar, very even, but too bright and not enough bottom
end for the acoustic stuff I do. I switched to a Lowden 010, that has a fabulous
low end, and enough balance throughout. A very big sounding guitar. I run
it through the Baggs M1 Active and a para DI. People usually comment on the
big, but beautiful tone.
Having said that, I switch a fair bit back and forth between electric and
acoustic
and the neck is a bit wide for me to make the switch as smoothly as I would
like.
So, while I love its tone, I'm planning on moving to a guitar with a neck
closer
to that of the Strat, PRS, Tele etc that I also play.
I echo Thad's recommendation of a Collings, these are fantastic guitars.
I also am
loving Santa Cruz which have a couple of models in that price range - the
Pre War issues - OM/PW, D/PW. I likely will end up with the D/PW which is
as
big as I need, but also sweet and clear enough for fingerstyle.
Here is a helpful link to a comparison of guitars in the $2K - $3K range.
http://www.acousticguitar.com/issues/ag107/feature107.html
I think you're in Ottawa, (from your email addy) so check to make sure the
prices have come down with the recent growth of the CDN $.
Hope this is helpful,
Ted
with the
"D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote:
>I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic (with
>electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be converging towards
a
>Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>
>Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for any
>potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier, I don't think
>I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a reference, the 714CE
>would cost around $2800). I don't know many luthiers, and the ones I do
know
>have a worldwide reputation (and are therefore not making guitars for
>$2800 - more like $5k and up).
>
>While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the Martin
>OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be incredibly ugly, but
>quite playable, although the action is typical Martin (i.e. high action,
a
>guitar that you have to dig in hard). Since I play mostly electric, the
nice
>low action of Taylors is appealing to me.
>
>Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or specific, good
or
>bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>
>Thanks,
>Dan
>
>
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| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95012 is a reply to message #95011] |
Tue, 22 January 2008 20:32 |
jim drago
Messages: 41
Registered: June 2006
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Member |
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How about the ovation VXT seems like a nice guitar.
http://www.thevxt.com/
"Ted Gerber" <tedgerber@rogers.com> wrote:
>
>HIDan-
>
>The Taylor 714 is a very nice guitar. Taylors are actually pretty good for
>
>amping and recording, they're well balanced. I had a 612 C- 3 part back,
>all maple,
>and it was a great guitar, very even, but too bright and not enough bottom
>
>end for the acoustic stuff I do. I switched to a Lowden 010, that has a
fabulous
>
>low end, and enough balance throughout. A very big sounding guitar. I run
>it through the Baggs M1 Active and a para DI. People usually comment on
the
>
>big, but beautiful tone.
>
>Having said that, I switch a fair bit back and forth between electric and
>acoustic
>and the neck is a bit wide for me to make the switch as smoothly as I would
>like.
>So, while I love its tone, I'm planning on moving to a guitar with a neck
>closer
>to that of the Strat, PRS, Tele etc that I also play.
>
>I echo Thad's recommendation of a Collings, these are fantastic guitars.
>I also am
>loving Santa Cruz which have a couple of models in that price range - the
>
>Pre War issues - OM/PW, D/PW. I likely will end up with the D/PW which is
>as
>big as I need, but also sweet and clear enough for fingerstyle.
>
>Here is a helpful link to a comparison of guitars in the $2K - $3K range.
>
>http://www.acousticguitar.com/issues/ag107/feature107.html
>
>I think you're in Ottawa, (from your email addy) so check to make sure the
>
>prices have come down with the recent growth of the CDN $.
>
>Hope this is helpful,
>
>Ted
>with the
>
>
>"D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote:
>>I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic (with
>
>>electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be converging towards
>a
>>Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>>
>>Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for any
>>potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier, I don't think
>
>>I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a reference, the 714CE
>
>>would cost around $2800). I don't know many luthiers, and the ones I do
>know
>>have a worldwide reputation (and are therefore not making guitars for
>>$2800 - more like $5k and up).
>>
>>While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the Martin
>
>>OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be incredibly ugly, but
>
>>quite playable, although the action is typical Martin (i.e. high action,
>a
>>guitar that you have to dig in hard). Since I play mostly electric, the
>nice
>>low action of Taylors is appealing to me.
>>
>>Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or specific, good
>or
>>bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Dan
>>
>>
>
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| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95030 is a reply to message #95006] |
Thu, 24 January 2008 05:49 |
ottawarocks
Messages: 12
Registered: September 2005
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Junior Member |
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Once again, thanks to all for the contributions...
All this dialog has given me a wicked idea: instead of shelling out almost
$3K on a Taylor, I could get for roughly the same amount both a decent
Breedlove chosen mainly for its acoustic properties, *and* a Variax 700 for
live playing where a "reasonable" substitute is good enough.
But I read some comments on the Variax that make me nervous - I cannot find
a Variax locally, and may have to (gulp!) mail-order one. The comment in
question comes up frequently in various review databases, and goes along
these lines: apparently, the Variax 700 has a significant deficiency in the
sustain area (enough to be considered an unacceptable compromise by several
reviewers).
So Jamie (and anyone else who "believes" in the Variax): did you find such a
flaw in the Variax's sustain? How usable is it really? And (as an add-on
bonus question) how convincing and artifact-free are the altered tunings?
Would you trust it enough to buy one via mail order?
Thanks to all again,
Dan
"Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:47963ccf$1@linux...
>
> For live acoustic guitar gigs I currently use a Line 6 Variax 700 Acoustic
> modeling guitar. This is the one that looks like an acoustic guitar, not
> the PRS-ish looking electric 700 version, although I have one of those
> too.
>
> The acoustic 700 VAX sounds quite good through the PA. It doesn't feed
> back. Even when using the built-in compressor which is really nice to use
> on fingerpicked songs.
>
> Acoustically it's fairly quiet, good for late night practicing without
> waking anyone. But without plugging it in, it's not a booming
> sing-around-the-campfire acoustic guitar.
>
> It has multiple guitar models to choose from including several that are
> bread and butter, plus a few non-guitar models like banjo, sitar and
> mandella.
>
> It also can do alternate tunings on the fly (via DSP so not quite as great
> as tuning them yourself, but for live it's fine and - important for
> shows - instant). It can also imitate a 12 string (again via DSP).
>
> It looks good, with nice grain on the top. It's has a shallow body. It
> plays well. The upper strings have 24 frets, very rare for an acoustic.
>
> It's more affordable than a high-end acoustic, and therefore less of a
> risk at gigs. It sounds as good or better through a PA than any other
> acoustic guitar I've heard.
>
> The only acoustic guitar thing it doesn't do well is body slaps, which is
> probably why it never feeds back.
>
> The output is mono. I do use it for recording direct sometimes. It sits
> nicely in the track and is good for L/R panned part doubling using
> different models.
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
> D.P. wrote:
>> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic (with
>> electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be converging
>> towards a Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>>
>> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for any
>> potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier, I don't
>> think I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a reference, the
>> 714CE would cost around $2800). I don't know many luthiers, and the ones
>> I do know have a worldwide reputation (and are therefore not making
>> guitars for $2800 - more like $5k and up).
>>
>> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the Martin
>> OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be incredibly ugly, but
>> quite playable, although the action is typical Martin (i.e. high action,
>> a guitar that you have to dig in hard). Since I play mostly electric, the
>> nice low action of Taylors is appealing to me.
>>
>> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or specific, good
>> or bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dan
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| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95033 is a reply to message #95030] |
Thu, 24 January 2008 11:14 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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I dunno about Variaxen as a belief system, they're merely clever
guitars. :^)
1) Sustain issues: I have no issues with sustain. In fact, the built-in
compressor lets you increase the apparent sustain without fear of feedback.
Note that I'm speaking of the _Acoustic 700_. The one that looks like an
acoustic guitar. That's the one I'm recommending for your described use.
1A) Comparing to the _Electric 700_: Meanwhile the _Electric 700_ (which
I also have) DOES have some sustain issues when you select the Strat
body as part of an emulation, because the Strat they modeled (a 56 or
57?) had less sustain than the Les Paul they modeled. And people noticed
this and complained.
The workaround for the _Electric 700_ Strat is to change the body
selection to one of the other electric body choices. It will still sound
like a Strat because of the pickup emulation setup, but it will have
longer sustain. Works great.
You'll need to have the add-on Workbench software to do this, which also
works great for designing your own hybrid emulations. I set one up to
sound similar to my PRS, for example, on all five pickup selector
positions. Cool stuff.
I think it's hugely confusing that Line 6 gave the number "700" to two
very different guitars. It's possible you were reading reviews for the
wrong 700.
BTW, the _Electric 700_ also does a couple of acoustic sounds. Pretty
well, too, but not as well as the _Acoustic 700_. Probably because the
_Acoustic 700_ has heavier strings a different physical body, different
programming and that handy compressor control. But I have used the
_Electric 700_ on an acoustic gig and people told me they didn't have a
problem with the acoustic sound out front.
However I prefer the _Acoustic 700_ for those gigs because it looks and
feels more like an acoustic, I can lay into the heavier strings more,
and I like the control the built-in compressor gives me. It also has a
better build quality and more frets.
But the Electric makes a good backup for the Acoustic, especially for
shows where I'm going to switch to the Electric for jazz/rock stuff, so
both guitars come along for the ride anyway.
2) Altered tunings: Not perfect. The farther you transpose away from the
original string's note, the less perfect it is. It's OK for transposing
down a half or whole step, which is great for getting a song into a more
comfortable key to sing. It's great for instantly getting to DADGAD or
other alternate tunings for those huge sounding chords, or some open
tuning slide work. It's usable for 12 string emulations where the high
string sounds are still doubled by the original string frequency.
To make it into a bass, it sounds passable an octave down on the bottom
three strings (especially using the nylon emulation), but not so good an
octave down on the top three strings. You can drop any string
individually so it's easy to set up a patch with a couple of bass
strings and the rest as normal guitar tuning.
It would sound a little weird if you used the DSP to tune it up an
octave and play only the detuned sounds alone.
Bottom line, it's good enough for a lot of stuff, and it's instant. None
of the other guitars you mentioned offer it, so it's just icing on the
cake. I regularly do live multitracking with a normal guitar tuning, a
DADGAD tuning, a drop D tuning, a bass tuning and then throw a sitar
part on top, all without stopping to physically tune or switch instruments.
3) Mail order: If I had the option to send it back in case it had neck
problems or something, I'd consider buying mail order. But I prefer to
buy guitars from a store where I can play them (having said that, I've
purchased four guitars mail order/ebay and it's worked out OK except for
the Variax _Electric 700_, which has a loose whammy bar).
If you're really picky about neck radius and such, you'd want to play
_any_ guitar before you buy it. BTW, the Variax plays better than my
Ovation.
I played several _Acoustic 700_ guitars before buying mine, both played
well, sounded the same. However the one I took home developed a problem
on one string. The store (GC) exchanged it without question. The second
one has worked fine for several years. Except last week it cut out in
rehearsal. But unplugging the cable (which also carries power) and
plugging it back in fixed it.
The only chronic problem I've heard of on the _Acoustic 700_ is that
some were finished before the bridge was glued, causing the bridge to
rise up over time. I believe Line 6 fixes that for free if you get one
of those (or any luthier could probably reglue it). But that was several
years ago, probably not even a problem any more.
Finally, just to muddy the waters, Line 6 makes two other acoustic
models that are less expensive but lack some of the features of the
_Acoustic 700_ (no alternate tunings, I think). One is nylon strung, the
other steel. I have not played them. If you prefer the sound of nylon
strings, check that one out.
Hope that helps.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
D.P. wrote:
> Once again, thanks to all for the contributions...
>
> All this dialog has given me a wicked idea: instead of shelling out almost
> $3K on a Taylor, I could get for roughly the same amount both a decent
> Breedlove chosen mainly for its acoustic properties, *and* a Variax 700 for
> live playing where a "reasonable" substitute is good enough.
>
> But I read some comments on the Variax that make me nervous - I cannot find
> a Variax locally, and may have to (gulp!) mail-order one. The comment in
> question comes up frequently in various review databases, and goes along
> these lines: apparently, the Variax 700 has a significant deficiency in the
> sustain area (enough to be considered an unacceptable compromise by several
> reviewers).
>
> So Jamie (and anyone else who "believes" in the Variax): did you find such a
> flaw in the Variax's sustain? How usable is it really? And (as an add-on
> bonus question) how convincing and artifact-free are the altered tunings?
> Would you trust it enough to buy one via mail order?
>
> Thanks to all again,
> Dan
>
> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:47963ccf$1@linux...
>> For live acoustic guitar gigs I currently use a Line 6 Variax 700 Acoustic
>> modeling guitar. This is the one that looks like an acoustic guitar, not
>> the PRS-ish looking electric 700 version, although I have one of those
>> too.
>>
>> The acoustic 700 VAX sounds quite good through the PA. It doesn't feed
>> back. Even when using the built-in compressor which is really nice to use
>> on fingerpicked songs.
>>
>> Acoustically it's fairly quiet, good for late night practicing without
>> waking anyone. But without plugging it in, it's not a booming
>> sing-around-the-campfire acoustic guitar.
>>
>> It has multiple guitar models to choose from including several that are
>> bread and butter, plus a few non-guitar models like banjo, sitar and
>> mandella.
>>
>> It also can do alternate tunings on the fly (via DSP so not quite as great
>> as tuning them yourself, but for live it's fine and - important for
>> shows - instant). It can also imitate a 12 string (again via DSP).
>>
>> It looks good, with nice grain on the top. It's has a shallow body. It
>> plays well. The upper strings have 24 frets, very rare for an acoustic.
>>
>> It's more affordable than a high-end acoustic, and therefore less of a
>> risk at gigs. It sounds as good or better through a PA than any other
>> acoustic guitar I've heard.
>>
>> The only acoustic guitar thing it doesn't do well is body slaps, which is
>> probably why it never feeds back.
>>
>> The output is mono. I do use it for recording direct sometimes. It sits
>> nicely in the track and is good for L/R panned part doubling using
>> different models.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>> D.P. wrote:
>>> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic (with
>>> electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be converging
>>> towards a Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>>>
>>> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for any
>>> potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier, I don't
>>> think I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a reference, the
>>> 714CE would cost around $2800). I don't know many luthiers, and the ones
>>> I do know have a worldwide reputation (and are therefore not making
>>> guitars for $2800 - more like $5k and up).
>>>
>>> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the Martin
>>> OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be incredibly ugly, but
>>> quite playable, although the action is typical Martin (i.e. high action,
>>> a guitar that you have to dig in hard). Since I play mostly electric, the
>>> nice low action of Taylors is appealing to me.
>>>
>>> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or specific, good
>>> or bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Dan
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95034 is a reply to message #95033] |
Thu, 24 January 2008 11:50 |
ottawarocks
Messages: 12
Registered: September 2005
|
Junior Member |
|
|
Wow, thanks. That is all I wanted to hear (and then some).
Thanks again,
Dan
"Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:4798e701@linux...
>
> I dunno about Variaxen as a belief system, they're merely clever guitars.
> :^)
>
> 1) Sustain issues: I have no issues with sustain. In fact, the built-in
> compressor lets you increase the apparent sustain without fear of
> feedback.
>
> Note that I'm speaking of the _Acoustic 700_. The one that looks like an
> acoustic guitar. That's the one I'm recommending for your described use.
>
>
> 1A) Comparing to the _Electric 700_: Meanwhile the _Electric 700_ (which I
> also have) DOES have some sustain issues when you select the Strat body as
> part of an emulation, because the Strat they modeled (a 56 or 57?) had
> less sustain than the Les Paul they modeled. And people noticed this and
> complained.
>
> The workaround for the _Electric 700_ Strat is to change the body
> selection to one of the other electric body choices. It will still sound
> like a Strat because of the pickup emulation setup, but it will have
> longer sustain. Works great.
>
> You'll need to have the add-on Workbench software to do this, which also
> works great for designing your own hybrid emulations. I set one up to
> sound similar to my PRS, for example, on all five pickup selector
> positions. Cool stuff.
>
> I think it's hugely confusing that Line 6 gave the number "700" to two
> very different guitars. It's possible you were reading reviews for the
> wrong 700.
>
> BTW, the _Electric 700_ also does a couple of acoustic sounds. Pretty
> well, too, but not as well as the _Acoustic 700_. Probably because the
> _Acoustic 700_ has heavier strings a different physical body, different
> programming and that handy compressor control. But I have used the
> _Electric 700_ on an acoustic gig and people told me they didn't have a
> problem with the acoustic sound out front.
>
> However I prefer the _Acoustic 700_ for those gigs because it looks and
> feels more like an acoustic, I can lay into the heavier strings more, and
> I like the control the built-in compressor gives me. It also has a better
> build quality and more frets.
>
> But the Electric makes a good backup for the Acoustic, especially for
> shows where I'm going to switch to the Electric for jazz/rock stuff, so
> both guitars come along for the ride anyway.
>
>
> 2) Altered tunings: Not perfect. The farther you transpose away from the
> original string's note, the less perfect it is. It's OK for transposing
> down a half or whole step, which is great for getting a song into a more
> comfortable key to sing. It's great for instantly getting to DADGAD or
> other alternate tunings for those huge sounding chords, or some open
> tuning slide work. It's usable for 12 string emulations where the high
> string sounds are still doubled by the original string frequency.
>
> To make it into a bass, it sounds passable an octave down on the bottom
> three strings (especially using the nylon emulation), but not so good an
> octave down on the top three strings. You can drop any string individually
> so it's easy to set up a patch with a couple of bass strings and the rest
> as normal guitar tuning.
>
> It would sound a little weird if you used the DSP to tune it up an octave
> and play only the detuned sounds alone.
>
> Bottom line, it's good enough for a lot of stuff, and it's instant. None
> of the other guitars you mentioned offer it, so it's just icing on the
> cake. I regularly do live multitracking with a normal guitar tuning, a
> DADGAD tuning, a drop D tuning, a bass tuning and then throw a sitar part
> on top, all without stopping to physically tune or switch instruments.
>
>
> 3) Mail order: If I had the option to send it back in case it had neck
> problems or something, I'd consider buying mail order. But I prefer to buy
> guitars from a store where I can play them (having said that, I've
> purchased four guitars mail order/ebay and it's worked out OK except for
> the Variax _Electric 700_, which has a loose whammy bar).
>
> If you're really picky about neck radius and such, you'd want to play
> _any_ guitar before you buy it. BTW, the Variax plays better than my
> Ovation.
>
> I played several _Acoustic 700_ guitars before buying mine, both played
> well, sounded the same. However the one I took home developed a problem on
> one string. The store (GC) exchanged it without question. The second one
> has worked fine for several years. Except last week it cut out in
> rehearsal. But unplugging the cable (which also carries power) and
> plugging it back in fixed it.
>
>
> The only chronic problem I've heard of on the _Acoustic 700_ is that some
> were finished before the bridge was glued, causing the bridge to rise up
> over time. I believe Line 6 fixes that for free if you get one of those
> (or any luthier could probably reglue it). But that was several years ago,
> probably not even a problem any more.
>
>
> Finally, just to muddy the waters, Line 6 makes two other acoustic models
> that are less expensive but lack some of the features of the _Acoustic
> 700_ (no alternate tunings, I think). One is nylon strung, the other
> steel. I have not played them. If you prefer the sound of nylon strings,
> check that one out.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
> D.P. wrote:
>> Once again, thanks to all for the contributions...
>>
>> All this dialog has given me a wicked idea: instead of shelling out
>> almost $3K on a Taylor, I could get for roughly the same amount both a
>> decent Breedlove chosen mainly for its acoustic properties, *and* a
>> Variax 700 for live playing where a "reasonable" substitute is good
>> enough.
>>
>> But I read some comments on the Variax that make me nervous - I cannot
>> find a Variax locally, and may have to (gulp!) mail-order one. The
>> comment in question comes up frequently in various review databases, and
>> goes along these lines: apparently, the Variax 700 has a significant
>> deficiency in the sustain area (enough to be considered an unacceptable
>> compromise by several reviewers).
>>
>> So Jamie (and anyone else who "believes" in the Variax): did you find
>> such a flaw in the Variax's sustain? How usable is it really? And (as an
>> add-on bonus question) how convincing and artifact-free are the altered
>> tunings? Would you trust it enough to buy one via mail order?
>>
>> Thanks to all again,
>> Dan
>>
>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>> news:47963ccf$1@linux...
>>> For live acoustic guitar gigs I currently use a Line 6 Variax 700
>>> Acoustic modeling guitar. This is the one that looks like an acoustic
>>> guitar, not the PRS-ish looking electric 700 version, although I have
>>> one of those too.
>>>
>>> The acoustic 700 VAX sounds quite good through the PA. It doesn't feed
>>> back. Even when using the built-in compressor which is really nice to
>>> use on fingerpicked songs.
>>>
>>> Acoustically it's fairly quiet, good for late night practicing without
>>> waking anyone. But without plugging it in, it's not a booming
>>> sing-around-the-campfire acoustic guitar.
>>>
>>> It has multiple guitar models to choose from including several that are
>>> bread and butter, plus a few non-guitar models like banjo, sitar and
>>> mandella.
>>>
>>> It also can do alternate tunings on the fly (via DSP so not quite as
>>> great as tuning them yourself, but for live it's fine and - important
>>> for shows - instant). It can also imitate a 12 string (again via DSP).
>>>
>>> It looks good, with nice grain on the top. It's has a shallow body. It
>>> plays well. The upper strings have 24 frets, very rare for an acoustic.
>>>
>>> It's more affordable than a high-end acoustic, and therefore less of a
>>> risk at gigs. It sounds as good or better through a PA than any other
>>> acoustic guitar I've heard.
>>>
>>> The only acoustic guitar thing it doesn't do well is body slaps, which
>>> is probably why it never feeds back.
>>>
>>> The output is mono. I do use it for recording direct sometimes. It sits
>>> nicely in the track and is good for L/R panned part doubling using
>>> different models.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> -Jamie
>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>
>>>
>>> D.P. wrote:
>>>> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic
>>>> (with electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be
>>>> converging towards a Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>>>>
>>>> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for any
>>>> potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier, I don't
>>>> think I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a reference,
>>>> the 714CE would cost around $2800). I don't know many luthiers, and the
>>>> ones I do know have a worldwide reputation (and are therefore not
>>>> making guitars for $2800 - more like $5k and up).
>>>>
>>>> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the
>>>> Martin OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be incredibly
>>>> ugly, but quite playable, although the action is typical Martin (i.e.
>>>> high action, a guitar that you have to dig in hard). Since I play
>>>> mostly electric, the nice low action of Taylors is appealing to me.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or specific,
>>>> good or bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Dan
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95040 is a reply to message #95030] |
Thu, 24 January 2008 16:09 |
AlexPlasko
Messages: 211
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
if you get a Roland VG99 you wont have the issues that the variax has. I use
mine with a Brian Moore DC-1/13 and there are no artifacts ,any tuning
imaginablealot more flexibility in designing your own models etc.
you can install a GK-2 pickup on any guitar if you don't have or want one
with one built in.
there is absolutely NO delay as with a midi guitar setup.
there is also a midi out if you would like to drive a synth
from the VG99.
there are allot of models built in and infinite ways to vary those.I'm not
crazy about the electric guitar models but the acoustic models kick ass.
way too much for me to write about now.
and it can be had for around $1000
the martin D-28 model is my favorite so far.
"D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote in message news:47989b01@linux...
> Once again, thanks to all for the contributions...
>
> All this dialog has given me a wicked idea: instead of shelling out almost
> $3K on a Taylor, I could get for roughly the same amount both a decent
> Breedlove chosen mainly for its acoustic properties, *and* a Variax 700
> for live playing where a "reasonable" substitute is good enough.
>
> But I read some comments on the Variax that make me nervous - I cannot
> find a Variax locally, and may have to (gulp!) mail-order one. The comment
> in question comes up frequently in various review databases, and goes
> along these lines: apparently, the Variax 700 has a significant deficiency
> in the sustain area (enough to be considered an unacceptable compromise by
> several reviewers).
>
> So Jamie (and anyone else who "believes" in the Variax): did you find such
> a flaw in the Variax's sustain? How usable is it really? And (as an add-on
> bonus question) how convincing and artifact-free are the altered tunings?
> Would you trust it enough to buy one via mail order?
>
> Thanks to all again,
> Dan
>
> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:47963ccf$1@linux...
>>
>> For live acoustic guitar gigs I currently use a Line 6 Variax 700
>> Acoustic modeling guitar. This is the one that looks like an acoustic
>> guitar, not the PRS-ish looking electric 700 version, although I have one
>> of those too.
>>
>> The acoustic 700 VAX sounds quite good through the PA. It doesn't feed
>> back. Even when using the built-in compressor which is really nice to use
>> on fingerpicked songs.
>>
>> Acoustically it's fairly quiet, good for late night practicing without
>> waking anyone. But without plugging it in, it's not a booming
>> sing-around-the-campfire acoustic guitar.
>>
>> It has multiple guitar models to choose from including several that are
>> bread and butter, plus a few non-guitar models like banjo, sitar and
>> mandella.
>>
>> It also can do alternate tunings on the fly (via DSP so not quite as
>> great as tuning them yourself, but for live it's fine and - important for
>> shows - instant). It can also imitate a 12 string (again via DSP).
>>
>> It looks good, with nice grain on the top. It's has a shallow body. It
>> plays well. The upper strings have 24 frets, very rare for an acoustic.
>>
>> It's more affordable than a high-end acoustic, and therefore less of a
>> risk at gigs. It sounds as good or better through a PA than any other
>> acoustic guitar I've heard.
>>
>> The only acoustic guitar thing it doesn't do well is body slaps, which is
>> probably why it never feeds back.
>>
>> The output is mono. I do use it for recording direct sometimes. It sits
>> nicely in the track and is good for L/R panned part doubling using
>> different models.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>> D.P. wrote:
>>> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic
>>> (with electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be converging
>>> towards a Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>>>
>>> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for any
>>> potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier, I don't
>>> think I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a reference, the
>>> 714CE would cost around $2800). I don't know many luthiers, and the ones
>>> I do know have a worldwide reputation (and are therefore not making
>>> guitars for $2800 - more like $5k and up).
>>>
>>> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the Martin
>>> OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be incredibly ugly, but
>>> quite playable, although the action is typical Martin (i.e. high action,
>>> a guitar that you have to dig in hard). Since I play mostly electric,
>>> the nice low action of Taylors is appealing to me.
>>>
>>> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or specific,
>>> good or bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Dan
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95062 is a reply to message #95040] |
Fri, 25 January 2008 08:42 |
Bill L
Messages: 766
Registered: August 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Alex, I'm interested in something you wrote, "I'm not
crazy about the electric guitar models..." Really? I would have expected
the electric guitars to be best. What's wrong with them?
alex plasko wrote:
> if you get a Roland VG99 you wont have the issues that the variax has. I use
> mine with a Brian Moore DC-1/13 and there are no artifacts ,any tuning
> imaginablealot more flexibility in designing your own models etc.
> you can install a GK-2 pickup on any guitar if you don't have or want one
> with one built in.
> there is absolutely NO delay as with a midi guitar setup.
> there is also a midi out if you would like to drive a synth
> from the VG99.
> there are allot of models built in and infinite ways to vary those.I'm not
> crazy about the electric guitar models but the acoustic models kick ass.
> way too much for me to write about now.
> and it can be had for around $1000
> the martin D-28 model is my favorite so far.
>
> "D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote in message news:47989b01@linux...
>> Once again, thanks to all for the contributions...
>>
>> All this dialog has given me a wicked idea: instead of shelling out almost
>> $3K on a Taylor, I could get for roughly the same amount both a decent
>> Breedlove chosen mainly for its acoustic properties, *and* a Variax 700
>> for live playing where a "reasonable" substitute is good enough.
>>
>> But I read some comments on the Variax that make me nervous - I cannot
>> find a Variax locally, and may have to (gulp!) mail-order one. The comment
>> in question comes up frequently in various review databases, and goes
>> along these lines: apparently, the Variax 700 has a significant deficiency
>> in the sustain area (enough to be considered an unacceptable compromise by
>> several reviewers).
>>
>> So Jamie (and anyone else who "believes" in the Variax): did you find such
>> a flaw in the Variax's sustain? How usable is it really? And (as an add-on
>> bonus question) how convincing and artifact-free are the altered tunings?
>> Would you trust it enough to buy one via mail order?
>>
>> Thanks to all again,
>> Dan
>>
>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:47963ccf$1@linux...
>>> For live acoustic guitar gigs I currently use a Line 6 Variax 700
>>> Acoustic modeling guitar. This is the one that looks like an acoustic
>>> guitar, not the PRS-ish looking electric 700 version, although I have one
>>> of those too.
>>>
>>> The acoustic 700 VAX sounds quite good through the PA. It doesn't feed
>>> back. Even when using the built-in compressor which is really nice to use
>>> on fingerpicked songs.
>>>
>>> Acoustically it's fairly quiet, good for late night practicing without
>>> waking anyone. But without plugging it in, it's not a booming
>>> sing-around-the-campfire acoustic guitar.
>>>
>>> It has multiple guitar models to choose from including several that are
>>> bread and butter, plus a few non-guitar models like banjo, sitar and
>>> mandella.
>>>
>>> It also can do alternate tunings on the fly (via DSP so not quite as
>>> great as tuning them yourself, but for live it's fine and - important for
>>> shows - instant). It can also imitate a 12 string (again via DSP).
>>>
>>> It looks good, with nice grain on the top. It's has a shallow body. It
>>> plays well. The upper strings have 24 frets, very rare for an acoustic.
>>>
>>> It's more affordable than a high-end acoustic, and therefore less of a
>>> risk at gigs. It sounds as good or better through a PA than any other
>>> acoustic guitar I've heard.
>>>
>>> The only acoustic guitar thing it doesn't do well is body slaps, which is
>>> probably why it never feeds back.
>>>
>>> The output is mono. I do use it for recording direct sometimes. It sits
>>> nicely in the track and is good for L/R panned part doubling using
>>> different models.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> -Jamie
>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>
>>>
>>> D.P. wrote:
>>>> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic
>>>> (with electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be converging
>>>> towards a Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>>>>
>>>> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for any
>>>> potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier, I don't
>>>> think I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a reference, the
>>>> 714CE would cost around $2800). I don't know many luthiers, and the ones
>>>> I do know have a worldwide reputation (and are therefore not making
>>>> guitars for $2800 - more like $5k and up).
>>>>
>>>> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the Martin
>>>> OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be incredibly ugly, but
>>>> quite playable, although the action is typical Martin (i.e. high action,
>>>> a guitar that you have to dig in hard). Since I play mostly electric,
>>>> the nice low action of Taylors is appealing to me.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or specific,
>>>> good or bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Dan
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95063 is a reply to message #95062] |
Fri, 25 January 2008 10:25 |
AlexPlasko
Messages: 211
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
bill, I should have been more specific.I should have said that I'm not crazy
about the Les Paul models.It may be more the way the patch is written than
the actual model
The patches using the standard humbuckers and P90's just don't sound right
to me.again im saying the factory patches , not the potential of the VG99.
Part of it may also be the amp models they used for those patches.
This thing is endlessly tweakable.
2 separate ,simultaneous guitar models,2 separate simultaneous amp/effects
chains ,filters,EQ,flexible routing ,sheesh......
and then buss EQ/effects after that.
you want a Rick 360 and a danelectro56 through a Marshall stack and a
Solano SLO100 at the same time? no problem.
you want altered tuning? the impossible is possible with this thing.
sticking a pickup at the 12th fret ?what?
sorry for being unclear about the electric models.
The VG99 has some serious processing power(double the previous)
It fills so many needs I think everyone should get one.
A VG99 through a stereo tube amp like a mesa 20/20 would be very convenient
for gigs.
anyway your going to have to get one to dig in on the capability of this
thing cause a store demo wont give you the picture, unless you spend a day
with the manual.
I"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:479a14f7@linux...
> Alex, I'm interested in something you wrote, "I'm not
> crazy about the electric guitar models..." Really? I would have expected
> the electric guitars to be best. What's wrong with them?
>
> alex plasko wrote:
>> if you get a Roland VG99 you wont have the issues that the variax has. I
>> use mine with a Brian Moore DC-1/13 and there are no artifacts ,any
>> tuning imaginablealot more flexibility in designing your own models etc.
>> you can install a GK-2 pickup on any guitar if you don't have or want one
>> with one built in.
>> there is absolutely NO delay as with a midi guitar setup.
>> there is also a midi out if you would like to drive a synth
>> from the VG99.
>> there are allot of models built in and infinite ways to vary those.I'm
>> not crazy about the electric guitar models but the acoustic models kick
>> ass.
>> way too much for me to write about now.
>> and it can be had for around $1000
>> the martin D-28 model is my favorite so far.
>>
>> "D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote in message news:47989b01@linux...
>>> Once again, thanks to all for the contributions...
>>>
>>> All this dialog has given me a wicked idea: instead of shelling out
>>> almost $3K on a Taylor, I could get for roughly the same amount both a
>>> decent Breedlove chosen mainly for its acoustic properties, *and* a
>>> Variax 700 for live playing where a "reasonable" substitute is good
>>> enough.
>>>
>>> But I read some comments on the Variax that make me nervous - I cannot
>>> find a Variax locally, and may have to (gulp!) mail-order one. The
>>> comment in question comes up frequently in various review databases, and
>>> goes along these lines: apparently, the Variax 700 has a significant
>>> deficiency in the sustain area (enough to be considered an unacceptable
>>> compromise by several reviewers).
>>>
>>> So Jamie (and anyone else who "believes" in the Variax): did you find
>>> such a flaw in the Variax's sustain? How usable is it really? And (as an
>>> add-on bonus question) how convincing and artifact-free are the altered
>>> tunings? Would you trust it enough to buy one via mail order?
>>>
>>> Thanks to all again,
>>> Dan
>>>
>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>> news:47963ccf$1@linux...
>>>> For live acoustic guitar gigs I currently use a Line 6 Variax 700
>>>> Acoustic modeling guitar. This is the one that looks like an acoustic
>>>> guitar, not the PRS-ish looking electric 700 version, although I have
>>>> one of those too.
>>>>
>>>> The acoustic 700 VAX sounds quite good through the PA. It doesn't feed
>>>> back. Even when using the built-in compressor which is really nice to
>>>> use on fingerpicked songs.
>>>>
>>>> Acoustically it's fairly quiet, good for late night practicing without
>>>> waking anyone. But without plugging it in, it's not a booming
>>>> sing-around-the-campfire acoustic guitar.
>>>>
>>>> It has multiple guitar models to choose from including several that are
>>>> bread and butter, plus a few non-guitar models like banjo, sitar and
>>>> mandella.
>>>>
>>>> It also can do alternate tunings on the fly (via DSP so not quite as
>>>> great as tuning them yourself, but for live it's fine and - important
>>>> for shows - instant). It can also imitate a 12 string (again via DSP).
>>>>
>>>> It looks good, with nice grain on the top. It's has a shallow body. It
>>>> plays well. The upper strings have 24 frets, very rare for an acoustic.
>>>>
>>>> It's more affordable than a high-end acoustic, and therefore less of a
>>>> risk at gigs. It sounds as good or better through a PA than any other
>>>> acoustic guitar I've heard.
>>>>
>>>> The only acoustic guitar thing it doesn't do well is body slaps, which
>>>> is probably why it never feeds back.
>>>>
>>>> The output is mono. I do use it for recording direct sometimes. It sits
>>>> nicely in the track and is good for L/R panned part doubling using
>>>> different models.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> -Jamie
>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> D.P. wrote:
>>>>> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic
>>>>> (with electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be
>>>>> converging towards a Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>>>>>
>>>>> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for any
>>>>> potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier, I don't
>>>>> think I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a reference,
>>>>> the 714CE would cost around $2800). I don't know many luthiers, and
>>>>> the ones I do know have a worldwide reputation (and are therefore not
>>>>> making guitars for $2800 - more like $5k and up).
>>>>>
>>>>> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the
>>>>> Martin OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be incredibly
>>>>> ugly, but quite playable, although the action is typical Martin (i.e.
>>>>> high action, a guitar that you have to dig in hard). Since I play
>>>>> mostly electric, the nice low action of Taylors is appealing to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or specific,
>>>>> good or bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Dan
>>>
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95064 is a reply to message #95062] |
Fri, 25 January 2008 12:10 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
The earlier VG8 and VG88 were not as good as the Variax at guitar
modeling when I tried them. Particularly the acoustic and strat models.
I haven't auditioned the VG99 yet but I've been monitoring a discussion
group which covers all of the Rolands, including the VG99:
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/vg-8/messages
From comments on that group, all is not roses with the VG99. But it
does offer some advantages:
1) Play a guitar you already like.
2) It also does amp modeling, (if you like Roland's models)
Disadvantages:
1) Another $1000+
2) Another box to haul to gigs
3) For me, I'd need the additional footswitch unit
4) Requires adding a special pickup system
If the VG99 can do long jump alt tunings with absolutely no artifacts,
that's pretty huge. I'll have to hear it to believe it.
From what I've heard, on the MIDI side the tracking is no better than
the my GR-33, which isn't that great, but I'm glad they included MIDI
out capability anyway (something Line 6 ought to consider).
It's always nice to have another choice.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
Bill L wrote:
> Alex, I'm interested in something you wrote, "I'm not
> crazy about the electric guitar models..." Really? I would have expected
> the electric guitars to be best. What's wrong with them?
>
> alex plasko wrote:
>> if you get a Roland VG99 you wont have the issues that the variax has.
>> I use mine with a Brian Moore DC-1/13 and there are no artifacts ,any
>> tuning imaginablealot more flexibility in designing your own models etc.
>> you can install a GK-2 pickup on any guitar if you don't have or want
>> one with one built in.
>> there is absolutely NO delay as with a midi guitar setup.
>> there is also a midi out if you would like to drive a synth
>> from the VG99.
>> there are allot of models built in and infinite ways to vary
>> those.I'm not crazy about the electric guitar models but the acoustic
>> models kick ass.
>> way too much for me to write about now.
>> and it can be had for around $1000
>> the martin D-28 model is my favorite so far.
>>
>> "D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote in message news:47989b01@linux...
>>> Once again, thanks to all for the contributions...
>>>
>>> All this dialog has given me a wicked idea: instead of shelling out
>>> almost $3K on a Taylor, I could get for roughly the same amount both
>>> a decent Breedlove chosen mainly for its acoustic properties, *and* a
>>> Variax 700 for live playing where a "reasonable" substitute is good
>>> enough.
>>>
>>> But I read some comments on the Variax that make me nervous - I
>>> cannot find a Variax locally, and may have to (gulp!) mail-order one.
>>> The comment in question comes up frequently in various review
>>> databases, and goes along these lines: apparently, the Variax 700 has
>>> a significant deficiency in the sustain area (enough to be considered
>>> an unacceptable compromise by several reviewers).
>>>
>>> So Jamie (and anyone else who "believes" in the Variax): did you find
>>> such a flaw in the Variax's sustain? How usable is it really? And (as
>>> an add-on bonus question) how convincing and artifact-free are the
>>> altered tunings? Would you trust it enough to buy one via mail order?
>>>
>>> Thanks to all again,
>>> Dan
>>>
>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>> news:47963ccf$1@linux...
>>>> For live acoustic guitar gigs I currently use a Line 6 Variax 700
>>>> Acoustic modeling guitar. This is the one that looks like an
>>>> acoustic guitar, not the PRS-ish looking electric 700 version,
>>>> although I have one of those too.
>>>>
>>>> The acoustic 700 VAX sounds quite good through the PA. It doesn't
>>>> feed back. Even when using the built-in compressor which is really
>>>> nice to use on fingerpicked songs.
>>>>
>>>> Acoustically it's fairly quiet, good for late night practicing
>>>> without waking anyone. But without plugging it in, it's not a
>>>> booming sing-around-the-campfire acoustic guitar.
>>>>
>>>> It has multiple guitar models to choose from including several that
>>>> are bread and butter, plus a few non-guitar models like banjo, sitar
>>>> and mandella.
>>>>
>>>> It also can do alternate tunings on the fly (via DSP so not quite as
>>>> great as tuning them yourself, but for live it's fine and -
>>>> important for shows - instant). It can also imitate a 12 string
>>>> (again via DSP).
>>>>
>>>> It looks good, with nice grain on the top. It's has a shallow body.
>>>> It plays well. The upper strings have 24 frets, very rare for an
>>>> acoustic.
>>>>
>>>> It's more affordable than a high-end acoustic, and therefore less of
>>>> a risk at gigs. It sounds as good or better through a PA than any
>>>> other acoustic guitar I've heard.
>>>>
>>>> The only acoustic guitar thing it doesn't do well is body slaps,
>>>> which is probably why it never feeds back.
>>>>
>>>> The output is mono. I do use it for recording direct sometimes. It
>>>> sits nicely in the track and is good for L/R panned part doubling
>>>> using different models.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> -Jamie
>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> D.P. wrote:
>>>>> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic
>>>>> (with electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be
>>>>> converging towards a Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>>>>>
>>>>> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for
>>>>> any potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier, I
>>>>> don't think I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a
>>>>> reference, the 714CE would cost around $2800). I don't know many
>>>>> luthiers, and the ones I do know have a worldwide reputation (and
>>>>> are therefore not making guitars for $2800 - more like $5k and up).
>>>>>
>>>>> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the
>>>>> Martin OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be
>>>>> incredibly ugly, but quite playable, although the action is typical
>>>>> Martin (i.e. high action, a guitar that you have to dig in hard).
>>>>> Since I play mostly electric, the nice low action of Taylors is
>>>>> appealing to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or
>>>>> specific, good or bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Dan
>>>
>>
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95067 is a reply to message #95063] |
Fri, 25 January 2008 12:47 |
Bill L
Messages: 766
Registered: August 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Kool, Alex. I'm currently using a Vox Tonelab into a Mesa Boogie
Satellite which is a combo style 1x12 amp designed to be a stereo add on
to a regular combo (it has no real preamp). I play either a custom Strat
style guitar or an Ibanez Artist 335 style, depending on the gig. I'm
overall pretty happy with the Tonelab and Mesa tone and feel, but I am
looking for more sounds and options, and versatility like having a
decent bass sound or an acoustic sound, plus better f/x would be way cool.
The thing I dig about my current rig is it feels very responsive and is
very playable, if you know what i mean. Does the VG99 feel like a real
amp setup, presuming you run it through a good tube power section lie a
2020? By the way, I rarely play heavy rock any more. I usually play
funk, R&B, fusion or jazz.
alex plasko wrote:
> bill, I should have been more specific.I should have said that I'm not crazy
> about the Les Paul models.It may be more the way the patch is written than
> the actual model
> The patches using the standard humbuckers and P90's just don't sound right
> to me.again im saying the factory patches , not the potential of the VG99.
> Part of it may also be the amp models they used for those patches.
> This thing is endlessly tweakable.
> 2 separate ,simultaneous guitar models,2 separate simultaneous amp/effects
> chains ,filters,EQ,flexible routing ,sheesh......
> and then buss EQ/effects after that.
> you want a Rick 360 and a danelectro56 through a Marshall stack and a
> Solano SLO100 at the same time? no problem.
> you want altered tuning? the impossible is possible with this thing.
> sticking a pickup at the 12th fret ?what?
> sorry for being unclear about the electric models.
> The VG99 has some serious processing power(double the previous)
> It fills so many needs I think everyone should get one.
> A VG99 through a stereo tube amp like a mesa 20/20 would be very convenient
> for gigs.
> anyway your going to have to get one to dig in on the capability of this
> thing cause a store demo wont give you the picture, unless you spend a day
> with the manual.
>
> I"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:479a14f7@linux...
>> Alex, I'm interested in something you wrote, "I'm not
>> crazy about the electric guitar models..." Really? I would have expected
>> the electric guitars to be best. What's wrong with them?
>>
>> alex plasko wrote:
>>> if you get a Roland VG99 you wont have the issues that the variax has. I
>>> use mine with a Brian Moore DC-1/13 and there are no artifacts ,any
>>> tuning imaginablealot more flexibility in designing your own models etc.
>>> you can install a GK-2 pickup on any guitar if you don't have or want one
>>> with one built in.
>>> there is absolutely NO delay as with a midi guitar setup.
>>> there is also a midi out if you would like to drive a synth
>>> from the VG99.
>>> there are allot of models built in and infinite ways to vary those.I'm
>>> not crazy about the electric guitar models but the acoustic models kick
>>> ass.
>>> way too much for me to write about now.
>>> and it can be had for around $1000
>>> the martin D-28 model is my favorite so far.
>>>
>>> "D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote in message news:47989b01@linux...
>>>> Once again, thanks to all for the contributions...
>>>>
>>>> All this dialog has given me a wicked idea: instead of shelling out
>>>> almost $3K on a Taylor, I could get for roughly the same amount both a
>>>> decent Breedlove chosen mainly for its acoustic properties, *and* a
>>>> Variax 700 for live playing where a "reasonable" substitute is good
>>>> enough.
>>>>
>>>> But I read some comments on the Variax that make me nervous - I cannot
>>>> find a Variax locally, and may have to (gulp!) mail-order one. The
>>>> comment in question comes up frequently in various review databases, and
>>>> goes along these lines: apparently, the Variax 700 has a significant
>>>> deficiency in the sustain area (enough to be considered an unacceptable
>>>> compromise by several reviewers).
>>>>
>>>> So Jamie (and anyone else who "believes" in the Variax): did you find
>>>> such a flaw in the Variax's sustain? How usable is it really? And (as an
>>>> add-on bonus question) how convincing and artifact-free are the altered
>>>> tunings? Would you trust it enough to buy one via mail order?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to all again,
>>>> Dan
>>>>
>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:47963ccf$1@linux...
>>>>> For live acoustic guitar gigs I currently use a Line 6 Variax 700
>>>>> Acoustic modeling guitar. This is the one that looks like an acoustic
>>>>> guitar, not the PRS-ish looking electric 700 version, although I have
>>>>> one of those too.
>>>>>
>>>>> The acoustic 700 VAX sounds quite good through the PA. It doesn't feed
>>>>> back. Even when using the built-in compressor which is really nice to
>>>>> use on fingerpicked songs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Acoustically it's fairly quiet, good for late night practicing without
>>>>> waking anyone. But without plugging it in, it's not a booming
>>>>> sing-around-the-campfire acoustic guitar.
>>>>>
>>>>> It has multiple guitar models to choose from including several that are
>>>>> bread and butter, plus a few non-guitar models like banjo, sitar and
>>>>> mandella.
>>>>>
>>>>> It also can do alternate tunings on the fly (via DSP so not quite as
>>>>> great as tuning them yourself, but for live it's fine and - important
>>>>> for shows - instant). It can also imitate a 12 string (again via DSP).
>>>>>
>>>>> It looks good, with nice grain on the top. It's has a shallow body. It
>>>>> plays well. The upper strings have 24 frets, very rare for an acoustic.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's more affordable than a high-end acoustic, and therefore less of a
>>>>> risk at gigs. It sounds as good or better through a PA than any other
>>>>> acoustic guitar I've heard.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only acoustic guitar thing it doesn't do well is body slaps, which
>>>>> is probably why it never feeds back.
>>>>>
>>>>> The output is mono. I do use it for recording direct sometimes. It sits
>>>>> nicely in the track and is good for L/R panned part doubling using
>>>>> different models.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> D.P. wrote:
>>>>>> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic
>>>>>> (with electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be
>>>>>> converging towards a Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for any
>>>>>> potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier, I don't
>>>>>> think I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a reference,
>>>>>> the 714CE would cost around $2800). I don't know many luthiers, and
>>>>>> the ones I do know have a worldwide reputation (and are therefore not
>>>>>> making guitars for $2800 - more like $5k and up).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the
>>>>>> Martin OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be incredibly
>>>>>> ugly, but quite playable, although the action is typical Martin (i.e.
>>>>>> high action, a guitar that you have to dig in hard). Since I play
>>>>>> mostly electric, the nice low action of Taylors is appealing to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or specific,
>>>>>> good or bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Dan
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95070 is a reply to message #95067] |
Fri, 25 January 2008 15:16 |
AlexPlasko
Messages: 211
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
bill here is a link to their video demo's for the VG99
it should give you a rough idea of what this is capable of.
as far as feeling the same as a real tube amp, uh naah, but I haven't tried
this through a tube amp yet so I don't know for sure.
I don't get the same feeling as playing through my lp-9 through my mesa
roadking, or one of my marshalls.
the tradeoff is extreme versatility .and its not a one trick pony your
locked in to as with with one amp one guitar at the gig or session .
you have a wide range of different sounds with the VG99,an amp, and your
favorite guitar.add a floor board controller if you need to control the
effects or whatever. I change patches right from my DC-1/13
the VG99 has a built in light beam controller and a ribbon controller so if
you set it on a stand right in front of you you have that option. unless
you rather dance on the floor controller...
anyway check out the videos.
I think the amp models are better than on the Vetta 2, and there are allot
more slots(400)
the only thing on the vetta I like better is the roger mayer Octavia effect.
is it better than a pod? I think so
more variation than on a variax? allot more
better than VG88 or VG8? double the processors.
It's not modeling nirvana yet, but 2 steps closer than last year.
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectI d=849&skip=true&page=video&file=vg-99_demo_video _pt1.flv
"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:479a4e65@linux...
> Kool, Alex. I'm currently using a Vox Tonelab into a Mesa Boogie Satellite
> which is a combo style 1x12 amp designed to be a stereo add on to a
> regular combo (it has no real preamp). I play either a custom Strat style
> guitar or an Ibanez Artist 335 style, depending on the gig. I'm overall
> pretty happy with the Tonelab and Mesa tone and feel, but I am looking for
> more sounds and options, and versatility like having a decent bass sound
> or an acoustic sound, plus better f/x would be way cool.
>
> The thing I dig about my current rig is it feels very responsive and is
> very playable, if you know what i mean. Does the VG99 feel like a real amp
> setup, presuming you run it through a good tube power section lie a 2020?
> By the way, I rarely play heavy rock any more. I usually play funk, R&B,
> fusion or jazz.
>
> alex plasko wrote:
>> bill, I should have been more specific.I should have said that I'm not
>> crazy about the Les Paul models.It may be more the way the patch is
>> written than the actual model
>> The patches using the standard humbuckers and P90's just don't sound
>> right to me.again im saying the factory patches , not the potential of
>> the VG99.
>> Part of it may also be the amp models they used for those patches.
>> This thing is endlessly tweakable.
>> 2 separate ,simultaneous guitar models,2 separate simultaneous
>> amp/effects chains ,filters,EQ,flexible routing ,sheesh......
>> and then buss EQ/effects after that.
>> you want a Rick 360 and a danelectro56 through a Marshall stack and a
>> Solano SLO100 at the same time? no problem.
>> you want altered tuning? the impossible is possible with this thing.
>> sticking a pickup at the 12th fret ?what?
>> sorry for being unclear about the electric models.
>> The VG99 has some serious processing power(double the previous)
>> It fills so many needs I think everyone should get one.
>> A VG99 through a stereo tube amp like a mesa 20/20 would be very
>> convenient for gigs.
>> anyway your going to have to get one to dig in on the capability of this
>> thing cause a store demo wont give you the picture, unless you spend a
>> day with the manual.
>>
>> I"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message
>> news:479a14f7@linux...
>>> Alex, I'm interested in something you wrote, "I'm not
>>> crazy about the electric guitar models..." Really? I would have expected
>>> the electric guitars to be best. What's wrong with them?
>>>
>>> alex plasko wrote:
>>>> if you get a Roland VG99 you wont have the issues that the variax has.
>>>> I use mine with a Brian Moore DC-1/13 and there are no artifacts ,any
>>>> tuning imaginablealot more flexibility in designing your own models
>>>> etc.
>>>> you can install a GK-2 pickup on any guitar if you don't have or want
>>>> one with one built in.
>>>> there is absolutely NO delay as with a midi guitar setup.
>>>> there is also a midi out if you would like to drive a synth
>>>> from the VG99.
>>>> there are allot of models built in and infinite ways to vary those.I'm
>>>> not crazy about the electric guitar models but the acoustic models kick
>>>> ass.
>>>> way too much for me to write about now.
>>>> and it can be had for around $1000
>>>> the martin D-28 model is my favorite so far.
>>>>
>>>> "D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:47989b01@linux...
>>>>> Once again, thanks to all for the contributions...
>>>>>
>>>>> All this dialog has given me a wicked idea: instead of shelling out
>>>>> almost $3K on a Taylor, I could get for roughly the same amount both a
>>>>> decent Breedlove chosen mainly for its acoustic properties, *and* a
>>>>> Variax 700 for live playing where a "reasonable" substitute is good
>>>>> enough.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I read some comments on the Variax that make me nervous - I cannot
>>>>> find a Variax locally, and may have to (gulp!) mail-order one. The
>>>>> comment in question comes up frequently in various review databases,
>>>>> and goes along these lines: apparently, the Variax 700 has a
>>>>> significant deficiency in the sustain area (enough to be considered an
>>>>> unacceptable compromise by several reviewers).
>>>>>
>>>>> So Jamie (and anyone else who "believes" in the Variax): did you find
>>>>> such a flaw in the Variax's sustain? How usable is it really? And (as
>>>>> an add-on bonus question) how convincing and artifact-free are the
>>>>> altered tunings? Would you trust it enough to buy one via mail order?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks to all again,
>>>>> Dan
>>>>>
>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:47963ccf$1@linux...
>>>>>> For live acoustic guitar gigs I currently use a Line 6 Variax 700
>>>>>> Acoustic modeling guitar. This is the one that looks like an acoustic
>>>>>> guitar, not the PRS-ish looking electric 700 version, although I have
>>>>>> one of those too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The acoustic 700 VAX sounds quite good through the PA. It doesn't
>>>>>> feed back. Even when using the built-in compressor which is really
>>>>>> nice to use on fingerpicked songs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Acoustically it's fairly quiet, good for late night practicing
>>>>>> without waking anyone. But without plugging it in, it's not a booming
>>>>>> sing-around-the-campfire acoustic guitar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It has multiple guitar models to choose from including several that
>>>>>> are bread and butter, plus a few non-guitar models like banjo, sitar
>>>>>> and mandella.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It also can do alternate tunings on the fly (via DSP so not quite as
>>>>>> great as tuning them yourself, but for live it's fine and - important
>>>>>> for shows - instant). It can also imitate a 12 string (again via
>>>>>> DSP).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It looks good, with nice grain on the top. It's has a shallow body.
>>>>>> It plays well. The upper strings have 24 frets, very rare for an
>>>>>> acoustic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's more affordable than a high-end acoustic, and therefore less of
>>>>>> a risk at gigs. It sounds as good or better through a PA than any
>>>>>> other acoustic guitar I've heard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only acoustic guitar thing it doesn't do well is body slaps,
>>>>>> which is probably why it never feeds back.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The output is mono. I do use it for recording direct sometimes. It
>>>>>> sits nicely in the track and is good for L/R panned part doubling
>>>>>> using different models.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> D.P. wrote:
>>>>>>> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic
>>>>>>> (with electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be
>>>>>>> converging towards a Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for
>>>>>>> any potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier, I
>>>>>>> don't think I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a
>>>>>>> reference, the 714CE would cost around $2800). I don't know many
>>>>>>> luthiers, and the ones I do know have a worldwide reputation (and
>>>>>>> are therefore not making guitars for $2800 - more like $5k and up).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the
>>>>>>> Martin OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be
>>>>>>> incredibly ugly, but quite playable, although the action is typical
>>>>>>> Martin (i.e. high action, a guitar that you have to dig in hard).
>>>>>>> Since I play mostly electric, the nice low action of Taylors is
>>>>>>> appealing to me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or specific,
>>>>>>> good or bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Dan
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95073 is a reply to message #95070] |
Fri, 25 January 2008 15:26 |
Bill L
Messages: 766
Registered: August 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Gotcha
alex plasko wrote:
> bill here is a link to their video demo's for the VG99
> it should give you a rough idea of what this is capable of.
> as far as feeling the same as a real tube amp, uh naah, but I haven't tried
> this through a tube amp yet so I don't know for sure.
> I don't get the same feeling as playing through my lp-9 through my mesa
> roadking, or one of my marshalls.
> the tradeoff is extreme versatility .and its not a one trick pony your
> locked in to as with with one amp one guitar at the gig or session .
> you have a wide range of different sounds with the VG99,an amp, and your
> favorite guitar.add a floor board controller if you need to control the
> effects or whatever. I change patches right from my DC-1/13
> the VG99 has a built in light beam controller and a ribbon controller so if
> you set it on a stand right in front of you you have that option. unless
> you rather dance on the floor controller...
> anyway check out the videos.
> I think the amp models are better than on the Vetta 2, and there are allot
> more slots(400)
> the only thing on the vetta I like better is the roger mayer Octavia effect.
> is it better than a pod? I think so
> more variation than on a variax? allot more
> better than VG88 or VG8? double the processors.
> It's not modeling nirvana yet, but 2 steps closer than last year.
>
>
> http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectI d=849&skip=true&page=video&file=vg-99_demo_video _pt1.flv
> "Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:479a4e65@linux...
>> Kool, Alex. I'm currently using a Vox Tonelab into a Mesa Boogie Satellite
>> which is a combo style 1x12 amp designed to be a stereo add on to a
>> regular combo (it has no real preamp). I play either a custom Strat style
>> guitar or an Ibanez Artist 335 style, depending on the gig. I'm overall
>> pretty happy with the Tonelab and Mesa tone and feel, but I am looking for
>> more sounds and options, and versatility like having a decent bass sound
>> or an acoustic sound, plus better f/x would be way cool.
>>
>> The thing I dig about my current rig is it feels very responsive and is
>> very playable, if you know what i mean. Does the VG99 feel like a real amp
>> setup, presuming you run it through a good tube power section lie a 2020?
>> By the way, I rarely play heavy rock any more. I usually play funk, R&B,
>> fusion or jazz.
>>
>> alex plasko wrote:
>>> bill, I should have been more specific.I should have said that I'm not
>>> crazy about the Les Paul models.It may be more the way the patch is
>>> written than the actual model
>>> The patches using the standard humbuckers and P90's just don't sound
>>> right to me.again im saying the factory patches , not the potential of
>>> the VG99.
>>> Part of it may also be the amp models they used for those patches.
>>> This thing is endlessly tweakable.
>>> 2 separate ,simultaneous guitar models,2 separate simultaneous
>>> amp/effects chains ,filters,EQ,flexible routing ,sheesh......
>>> and then buss EQ/effects after that.
>>> you want a Rick 360 and a danelectro56 through a Marshall stack and a
>>> Solano SLO100 at the same time? no problem.
>>> you want altered tuning? the impossible is possible with this thing.
>>> sticking a pickup at the 12th fret ?what?
>>> sorry for being unclear about the electric models.
>>> The VG99 has some serious processing power(double the previous)
>>> It fills so many needs I think everyone should get one.
>>> A VG99 through a stereo tube amp like a mesa 20/20 would be very
>>> convenient for gigs.
>>> anyway your going to have to get one to dig in on the capability of this
>>> thing cause a store demo wont give you the picture, unless you spend a
>>> day with the manual.
>>>
>>> I"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message
>>> news:479a14f7@linux...
>>>> Alex, I'm interested in something you wrote, "I'm not
>>>> crazy about the electric guitar models..." Really? I would have expected
>>>> the electric guitars to be best. What's wrong with them?
>>>>
>>>> alex plasko wrote:
>>>>> if you get a Roland VG99 you wont have the issues that the variax has.
>>>>> I use mine with a Brian Moore DC-1/13 and there are no artifacts ,any
>>>>> tuning imaginablealot more flexibility in designing your own models
>>>>> etc.
>>>>> you can install a GK-2 pickup on any guitar if you don't have or want
>>>>> one with one built in.
>>>>> there is absolutely NO delay as with a midi guitar setup.
>>>>> there is also a midi out if you would like to drive a synth
>>>>> from the VG99.
>>>>> there are allot of models built in and infinite ways to vary those.I'm
>>>>> not crazy about the electric guitar models but the acoustic models kick
>>>>> ass.
>>>>> way too much for me to write about now.
>>>>> and it can be had for around $1000
>>>>> the martin D-28 model is my favorite so far.
>>>>>
>>>>> "D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:47989b01@linux...
>>>>>> Once again, thanks to all for the contributions...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All this dialog has given me a wicked idea: instead of shelling out
>>>>>> almost $3K on a Taylor, I could get for roughly the same amount both a
>>>>>> decent Breedlove chosen mainly for its acoustic properties, *and* a
>>>>>> Variax 700 for live playing where a "reasonable" substitute is good
>>>>>> enough.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I read some comments on the Variax that make me nervous - I cannot
>>>>>> find a Variax locally, and may have to (gulp!) mail-order one. The
>>>>>> comment in question comes up frequently in various review databases,
>>>>>> and goes along these lines: apparently, the Variax 700 has a
>>>>>> significant deficiency in the sustain area (enough to be considered an
>>>>>> unacceptable compromise by several reviewers).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So Jamie (and anyone else who "believes" in the Variax): did you find
>>>>>> such a flaw in the Variax's sustain? How usable is it really? And (as
>>>>>> an add-on bonus question) how convincing and artifact-free are the
>>>>>> altered tunings? Would you trust it enough to buy one via mail order?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks to all again,
>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:47963ccf$1@linux...
>>>>>>> For live acoustic guitar gigs I currently use a Line 6 Variax 700
>>>>>>> Acoustic modeling guitar. This is the one that looks like an acoustic
>>>>>>> guitar, not the PRS-ish looking electric 700 version, although I have
>>>>>>> one of those too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The acoustic 700 VAX sounds quite good through the PA. It doesn't
>>>>>>> feed back. Even when using the built-in compressor which is really
>>>>>>> nice to use on fingerpicked songs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Acoustically it's fairly quiet, good for late night practicing
>>>>>>> without waking anyone. But without plugging it in, it's not a booming
>>>>>>> sing-around-the-campfire acoustic guitar.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It has multiple guitar models to choose from including several that
>>>>>>> are bread and butter, plus a few non-guitar models like banjo, sitar
>>>>>>> and mandella.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It also can do alternate tunings on the fly (via DSP so not quite as
>>>>>>> great as tuning them yourself, but for live it's fine and - important
>>>>>>> for shows - instant). It can also imitate a 12 string (again via
>>>>>>> DSP).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It looks good, with nice grain on the top. It's has a shallow body.
>>>>>>> It plays well. The upper strings have 24 frets, very rare for an
>>>>>>> acoustic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's more affordable than a high-end acoustic, and therefore less of
>>>>>>> a risk at gigs. It sounds as good or better through a PA than any
>>>>>>> other acoustic guitar I've heard.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only acoustic guitar thing it doesn't do well is body slaps,
>>>>>>> which is probably why it never feeds back.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The output is mono. I do use it for recording direct sometimes. It
>>>>>>> sits nicely in the track and is good for L/R panned part doubling
>>>>>>> using different models.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> D.P. wrote:
>>>>>>>> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic
>>>>>>>> (with electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be
>>>>>>>> converging towards a Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for
>>>>>>>> any potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier, I
>>>>>>>> don't think I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a
>>>>>>>> reference, the 714CE would cost around $2800). I don't know many
>>>>>>>> luthiers, and the ones I do know have a worldwide reputation (and
>>>>>>>> are therefore not making guitars for $2800 - more like $5k and up).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the
>>>>>>>> Martin OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be
>>>>>>>> incredibly ugly, but quite playable, although the action is typical
>>>>>>>> Martin (i.e. high action, a guitar that you have to dig in hard).
>>>>>>>> Since I play mostly electric, the nice low action of Taylors is
>>>>>>>> appealing to me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or specific,
>>>>>>>> good or bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Dan
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95086 is a reply to message #95070] |
Sat, 26 January 2008 04:04 |
Bill L
Messages: 766
Registered: August 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Very nice demo! Great players, too. Just having those bass sounds would
be valuable for me in a trio format, switching off playing bass with the
keyboard player. I was not impressed with the acoustic guitar sounds but
i liked the sitar! And that beam thingy looks like fun too.
I'm gonna have to get one and try it out.
alex plasko wrote:
> bill here is a link to their video demo's for the VG99
> it should give you a rough idea of what this is capable of.
> as far as feeling the same as a real tube amp, uh naah, but I haven't tried
> this through a tube amp yet so I don't know for sure.
> I don't get the same feeling as playing through my lp-9 through my mesa
> roadking, or one of my marshalls.
> the tradeoff is extreme versatility .and its not a one trick pony your
> locked in to as with with one amp one guitar at the gig or session .
> you have a wide range of different sounds with the VG99,an amp, and your
> favorite guitar.add a floor board controller if you need to control the
> effects or whatever. I change patches right from my DC-1/13
> the VG99 has a built in light beam controller and a ribbon controller so if
> you set it on a stand right in front of you you have that option. unless
> you rather dance on the floor controller...
> anyway check out the videos.
> I think the amp models are better than on the Vetta 2, and there are allot
> more slots(400)
> the only thing on the vetta I like better is the roger mayer Octavia effect.
> is it better than a pod? I think so
> more variation than on a variax? allot more
> better than VG88 or VG8? double the processors.
> It's not modeling nirvana yet, but 2 steps closer than last year.
>
>
> http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectI d=849&skip=true&page=video&file=vg-99_demo_video _pt1.flv
> "Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:479a4e65@linux...
>> Kool, Alex. I'm currently using a Vox Tonelab into a Mesa Boogie Satellite
>> which is a combo style 1x12 amp designed to be a stereo add on to a
>> regular combo (it has no real preamp). I play either a custom Strat style
>> guitar or an Ibanez Artist 335 style, depending on the gig. I'm overall
>> pretty happy with the Tonelab and Mesa tone and feel, but I am looking for
>> more sounds and options, and versatility like having a decent bass sound
>> or an acoustic sound, plus better f/x would be way cool.
>>
>> The thing I dig about my current rig is it feels very responsive and is
>> very playable, if you know what i mean. Does the VG99 feel like a real amp
>> setup, presuming you run it through a good tube power section lie a 2020?
>> By the way, I rarely play heavy rock any more. I usually play funk, R&B,
>> fusion or jazz.
>>
>> alex plasko wrote:
>>> bill, I should have been more specific.I should have said that I'm not
>>> crazy about the Les Paul models.It may be more the way the patch is
>>> written than the actual model
>>> The patches using the standard humbuckers and P90's just don't sound
>>> right to me.again im saying the factory patches , not the potential of
>>> the VG99.
>>> Part of it may also be the amp models they used for those patches.
>>> This thing is endlessly tweakable.
>>> 2 separate ,simultaneous guitar models,2 separate simultaneous
>>> amp/effects chains ,filters,EQ,flexible routing ,sheesh......
>>> and then buss EQ/effects after that.
>>> you want a Rick 360 and a danelectro56 through a Marshall stack and a
>>> Solano SLO100 at the same time? no problem.
>>> you want altered tuning? the impossible is possible with this thing.
>>> sticking a pickup at the 12th fret ?what?
>>> sorry for being unclear about the electric models.
>>> The VG99 has some serious processing power(double the previous)
>>> It fills so many needs I think everyone should get one.
>>> A VG99 through a stereo tube amp like a mesa 20/20 would be very
>>> convenient for gigs.
>>> anyway your going to have to get one to dig in on the capability of this
>>> thing cause a store demo wont give you the picture, unless you spend a
>>> day with the manual.
>>>
>>> I"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message
>>> news:479a14f7@linux...
>>>> Alex, I'm interested in something you wrote, "I'm not
>>>> crazy about the electric guitar models..." Really? I would have expected
>>>> the electric guitars to be best. What's wrong with them?
>>>>
>>>> alex plasko wrote:
>>>>> if you get a Roland VG99 you wont have the issues that the variax has.
>>>>> I use mine with a Brian Moore DC-1/13 and there are no artifacts ,any
>>>>> tuning imaginablealot more flexibility in designing your own models
>>>>> etc.
>>>>> you can install a GK-2 pickup on any guitar if you don't have or want
>>>>> one with one built in.
>>>>> there is absolutely NO delay as with a midi guitar setup.
>>>>> there is also a midi out if you would like to drive a synth
>>>>> from the VG99.
>>>>> there are allot of models built in and infinite ways to vary those.I'm
>>>>> not crazy about the electric guitar models but the acoustic models kick
>>>>> ass.
>>>>> way too much for me to write about now.
>>>>> and it can be had for around $1000
>>>>> the martin D-28 model is my favorite so far.
>>>>>
>>>>> "D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:47989b01@linux...
>>>>>> Once again, thanks to all for the contributions...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All this dialog has given me a wicked idea: instead of shelling out
>>>>>> almost $3K on a Taylor, I could get for roughly the same amount both a
>>>>>> decent Breedlove chosen mainly for its acoustic properties, *and* a
>>>>>> Variax 700 for live playing where a "reasonable" substitute is good
>>>>>> enough.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I read some comments on the Variax that make me nervous - I cannot
>>>>>> find a Variax locally, and may have to (gulp!) mail-order one. The
>>>>>> comment in question comes up frequently in various review databases,
>>>>>> and goes along these lines: apparently, the Variax 700 has a
>>>>>> significant deficiency in the sustain area (enough to be considered an
>>>>>> unacceptable compromise by several reviewers).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So Jamie (and anyone else who "believes" in the Variax): did you find
>>>>>> such a flaw in the Variax's sustain? How usable is it really? And (as
>>>>>> an add-on bonus question) how convincing and artifact-free are the
>>>>>> altered tunings? Would you trust it enough to buy one via mail order?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks to all again,
>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:47963ccf$1@linux...
>>>>>>> For live acoustic guitar gigs I currently use a Line 6 Variax 700
>>>>>>> Acoustic modeling guitar. This is the one that looks like an acoustic
>>>>>>> guitar, not the PRS-ish looking electric 700 version, although I have
>>>>>>> one of those too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The acoustic 700 VAX sounds quite good through the PA. It doesn't
>>>>>>> feed back. Even when using the built-in compressor which is really
>>>>>>> nice to use on fingerpicked songs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Acoustically it's fairly quiet, good for late night practicing
>>>>>>> without waking anyone. But without plugging it in, it's not a booming
>>>>>>> sing-around-the-campfire acoustic guitar.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It has multiple guitar models to choose from including several that
>>>>>>> are bread and butter, plus a few non-guitar models like banjo, sitar
>>>>>>> and mandella.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It also can do alternate tunings on the fly (via DSP so not quite as
>>>>>>> great as tuning them yourself, but for live it's fine and - important
>>>>>>> for shows - instant). It can also imitate a 12 string (again via
>>>>>>> DSP).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It looks good, with nice grain on the top. It's has a shallow body.
>>>>>>> It plays well. The upper strings have 24 frets, very rare for an
>>>>>>> acoustic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's more affordable than a high-end acoustic, and therefore less of
>>>>>>> a risk at gigs. It sounds as good or better through a PA than any
>>>>>>> other acoustic guitar I've heard.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only acoustic guitar thing it doesn't do well is body slaps,
>>>>>>> which is probably why it never feeds back.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The output is mono. I do use it for recording direct sometimes. It
>>>>>>> sits nicely in the track and is good for L/R panned part doubling
>>>>>>> using different models.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> D.P. wrote:
>>>>>>>> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic
>>>>>>>> (with electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be
>>>>>>>> converging towards a Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for
>>>>>>>> any potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier, I
>>>>>>>> don't think I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a
>>>>>>>> reference, the 714CE would cost around $2800). I don't know many
>>>>>>>> luthiers, and the ones I do know have a worldwide reputation (and
>>>>>>>> are therefore not making guitars for $2800 - more like $5k and up).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the
>>>>>>>> Martin OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be
>>>>>>>> incredibly ugly, but quite playable, although the action is typical
>>>>>>>> Martin (i.e. high action, a guitar that you have to dig in hard).
>>>>>>>> Since I play mostly electric, the nice low action of Taylors is
>>>>>>>> appealing to me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or specific,
>>>>>>>> good or bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Dan
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95089 is a reply to message #95086] |
Sat, 26 January 2008 04:59 |
Bill L
Messages: 766
Registered: August 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Alex, one more question (thanks for your data): can I route my regular
guitar pickup signal through the unit too?
Bill L wrote:
> Very nice demo! Great players, too. Just having those bass sounds would
> be valuable for me in a trio format, switching off playing bass with the
> keyboard player. I was not impressed with the acoustic guitar sounds but
> i liked the sitar! And that beam thingy looks like fun too.
>
> I'm gonna have to get one and try it out.
>
> alex plasko wrote:
>> bill here is a link to their video demo's for the VG99
>> it should give you a rough idea of what this is capable of.
>> as far as feeling the same as a real tube amp, uh naah, but I haven't
>> tried this through a tube amp yet so I don't know for sure.
>> I don't get the same feeling as playing through my lp-9 through my
>> mesa roadking, or one of my marshalls.
>> the tradeoff is extreme versatility .and its not a one trick pony your
>> locked in to as with with one amp one guitar at the gig or session .
>> you have a wide range of different sounds with the VG99,an amp, and
>> your favorite guitar.add a floor board controller if you need to
>> control the effects or whatever. I change patches right from my DC-1/13
>> the VG99 has a built in light beam controller and a ribbon controller
>> so if you set it on a stand right in front of you you have that
>> option. unless you rather dance on the floor controller...
>> anyway check out the videos.
>> I think the amp models are better than on the Vetta 2, and there are
>> allot more slots(400)
>> the only thing on the vetta I like better is the roger mayer Octavia
>> effect.
>> is it better than a pod? I think so
>> more variation than on a variax? allot more
>> better than VG88 or VG8? double the processors.
>> It's not modeling nirvana yet, but 2 steps closer than last year.
>>
>>
>> http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectI d=849&skip=true&page=video&file=vg-99_demo_video _pt1.flv
>>
>> "Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:479a4e65@linux...
>>> Kool, Alex. I'm currently using a Vox Tonelab into a Mesa Boogie
>>> Satellite which is a combo style 1x12 amp designed to be a stereo add
>>> on to a regular combo (it has no real preamp). I play either a custom
>>> Strat style guitar or an Ibanez Artist 335 style, depending on the
>>> gig. I'm overall pretty happy with the Tonelab and Mesa tone and
>>> feel, but I am looking for more sounds and options, and versatility
>>> like having a decent bass sound or an acoustic sound, plus better f/x
>>> would be way cool.
>>>
>>> The thing I dig about my current rig is it feels very responsive and
>>> is very playable, if you know what i mean. Does the VG99 feel like a
>>> real amp setup, presuming you run it through a good tube power
>>> section lie a 2020? By the way, I rarely play heavy rock any more. I
>>> usually play funk, R&B, fusion or jazz.
>>>
>>> alex plasko wrote:
>>>> bill, I should have been more specific.I should have said that I'm
>>>> not crazy about the Les Paul models.It may be more the way the patch
>>>> is written than the actual model
>>>> The patches using the standard humbuckers and P90's just don't sound
>>>> right to me.again im saying the factory patches , not the potential
>>>> of the VG99.
>>>> Part of it may also be the amp models they used for those patches.
>>>> This thing is endlessly tweakable.
>>>> 2 separate ,simultaneous guitar models,2 separate simultaneous
>>>> amp/effects chains ,filters,EQ,flexible routing ,sheesh......
>>>> and then buss EQ/effects after that.
>>>> you want a Rick 360 and a danelectro56 through a Marshall stack and
>>>> a Solano SLO100 at the same time? no problem.
>>>> you want altered tuning? the impossible is possible with this thing.
>>>> sticking a pickup at the 12th fret ?what?
>>>> sorry for being unclear about the electric models.
>>>> The VG99 has some serious processing power(double the previous)
>>>> It fills so many needs I think everyone should get one.
>>>> A VG99 through a stereo tube amp like a mesa 20/20 would be very
>>>> convenient for gigs.
>>>> anyway your going to have to get one to dig in on the capability of
>>>> this thing cause a store demo wont give you the picture, unless you
>>>> spend a day with the manual.
>>>>
>>>> I"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:479a14f7@linux...
>>>>> Alex, I'm interested in something you wrote, "I'm not
>>>>> crazy about the electric guitar models..." Really? I would have
>>>>> expected the electric guitars to be best. What's wrong with them?
>>>>>
>>>>> alex plasko wrote:
>>>>>> if you get a Roland VG99 you wont have the issues that the variax
>>>>>> has. I use mine with a Brian Moore DC-1/13 and there are no
>>>>>> artifacts ,any tuning imaginablealot more flexibility in designing
>>>>>> your own models etc.
>>>>>> you can install a GK-2 pickup on any guitar if you don't have or
>>>>>> want one with one built in.
>>>>>> there is absolutely NO delay as with a midi guitar setup.
>>>>>> there is also a midi out if you would like to drive a synth
>>>>>> from the VG99.
>>>>>> there are allot of models built in and infinite ways to vary
>>>>>> those.I'm not crazy about the electric guitar models but the
>>>>>> acoustic models kick ass.
>>>>>> way too much for me to write about now.
>>>>>> and it can be had for around $1000
>>>>>> the martin D-28 model is my favorite so far.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:47989b01@linux...
>>>>>>> Once again, thanks to all for the contributions...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All this dialog has given me a wicked idea: instead of shelling
>>>>>>> out almost $3K on a Taylor, I could get for roughly the same
>>>>>>> amount both a decent Breedlove chosen mainly for its acoustic
>>>>>>> properties, *and* a Variax 700 for live playing where a
>>>>>>> "reasonable" substitute is good enough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But I read some comments on the Variax that make me nervous - I
>>>>>>> cannot find a Variax locally, and may have to (gulp!) mail-order
>>>>>>> one. The comment in question comes up frequently in various
>>>>>>> review databases, and goes along these lines: apparently, the
>>>>>>> Variax 700 has a significant deficiency in the sustain area
>>>>>>> (enough to be considered an unacceptable compromise by several
>>>>>>> reviewers).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So Jamie (and anyone else who "believes" in the Variax): did you
>>>>>>> find such a flaw in the Variax's sustain? How usable is it
>>>>>>> really? And (as an add-on bonus question) how convincing and
>>>>>>> artifact-free are the altered tunings? Would you trust it enough
>>>>>>> to buy one via mail order?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks to all again,
>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:47963ccf$1@linux...
>>>>>>>> For live acoustic guitar gigs I currently use a Line 6 Variax
>>>>>>>> 700 Acoustic modeling guitar. This is the one that looks like an
>>>>>>>> acoustic guitar, not the PRS-ish looking electric 700 version,
>>>>>>>> although I have one of those too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The acoustic 700 VAX sounds quite good through the PA. It
>>>>>>>> doesn't feed back. Even when using the built-in compressor which
>>>>>>>> is really nice to use on fingerpicked songs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Acoustically it's fairly quiet, good for late night practicing
>>>>>>>> without waking anyone. But without plugging it in, it's not a
>>>>>>>> booming sing-around-the-campfire acoustic guitar.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It has multiple guitar models to choose from including several
>>>>>>>> that are bread and butter, plus a few non-guitar models like
>>>>>>>> banjo, sitar and mandella.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It also can do alternate tunings on the fly (via DSP so not
>>>>>>>> quite as great as tuning them yourself, but for live it's fine
>>>>>>>> and - important for shows - instant). It can also imitate a 12
>>>>>>>> string (again via DSP).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It looks good, with nice grain on the top. It's has a shallow
>>>>>>>> body. It plays well. The upper strings have 24 frets, very rare
>>>>>>>> for an acoustic.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's more affordable than a high-end acoustic, and therefore
>>>>>>>> less of a risk at gigs. It sounds as good or better through a PA
>>>>>>>> than any other acoustic guitar I've heard.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The only acoustic guitar thing it doesn't do well is body slaps,
>>>>>>>> which is probably why it never feeds back.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The output is mono. I do use it for recording direct sometimes.
>>>>>>>> It sits nicely in the track and is good for L/R panned part
>>>>>>>> doubling using different models.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> D.P. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent
>>>>>>>>> acoustic (with electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and
>>>>>>>>> seem to be converging towards a Taylor (something along the
>>>>>>>>> 714CE or 814CE).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around
>>>>>>>>> for any potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a
>>>>>>>>> luthier, I don't think I'll get much traction with my planned
>>>>>>>>> budget (as a reference, the 714CE would cost around $2800). I
>>>>>>>>> don't know many luthiers, and the ones I do know have a
>>>>>>>>> worldwide reputation (and are therefore not making guitars for
>>>>>>>>> $2800 - more like $5k and up).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to
>>>>>>>>> the Martin OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be
>>>>>>>>> incredibly ugly, but quite playable, although the action is
>>>>>>>>> typical Martin (i.e. high action, a guitar that you have to dig
>>>>>>>>> in hard). Since I play mostly electric, the nice low action of
>>>>>>>>> Taylors is appealing to me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or
>>>>>>>>> specific, good or bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> Dan
>>
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95090 is a reply to message #95089] |
Sat, 26 January 2008 05:46 |
AlexPlasko
Messages: 211
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
yes and mix it with a virtual guitar as well!
the demos don't do the acoustic guitars justice. I don't know what they did
when they recorded those demos but the acoustics sound better than that.
"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:479b3227$1@linux...
> Alex, one more question (thanks for your data): can I route my regular
> guitar pickup signal through the unit too?
>
> Bill L wrote:
>> Very nice demo! Great players, too. Just having those bass sounds would
>> be valuable for me in a trio format, switching off playing bass with the
>> keyboard player. I was not impressed with the acoustic guitar sounds but
>> i liked the sitar! And that beam thingy looks like fun too.
>>
>> I'm gonna have to get one and try it out.
>>
>> alex plasko wrote:
>>> bill here is a link to their video demo's for the VG99
>>> it should give you a rough idea of what this is capable of.
>>> as far as feeling the same as a real tube amp, uh naah, but I haven't
>>> tried this through a tube amp yet so I don't know for sure.
>>> I don't get the same feeling as playing through my lp-9 through my mesa
>>> roadking, or one of my marshalls.
>>> the tradeoff is extreme versatility .and its not a one trick pony your
>>> locked in to as with with one amp one guitar at the gig or session .
>>> you have a wide range of different sounds with the VG99,an amp, and
>>> your favorite guitar.add a floor board controller if you need to
>>> control the effects or whatever. I change patches right from my DC-1/13
>>> the VG99 has a built in light beam controller and a ribbon controller so
>>> if you set it on a stand right in front of you you have that option.
>>> unless you rather dance on the floor controller...
>>> anyway check out the videos.
>>> I think the amp models are better than on the Vetta 2, and there are
>>> allot more slots(400)
>>> the only thing on the vetta I like better is the roger mayer Octavia
>>> effect.
>>> is it better than a pod? I think so
>>> more variation than on a variax? allot more
>>> better than VG88 or VG8? double the processors.
>>> It's not modeling nirvana yet, but 2 steps closer than last year.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectI d=849&skip=true&page=video&file=vg-99_demo_video _pt1.flv
>>> "Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message
>>> news:479a4e65@linux...
>>>> Kool, Alex. I'm currently using a Vox Tonelab into a Mesa Boogie
>>>> Satellite which is a combo style 1x12 amp designed to be a stereo add
>>>> on to a regular combo (it has no real preamp). I play either a custom
>>>> Strat style guitar or an Ibanez Artist 335 style, depending on the gig.
>>>> I'm overall pretty happy with the Tonelab and Mesa tone and feel, but I
>>>> am looking for more sounds and options, and versatility like having a
>>>> decent bass sound or an acoustic sound, plus better f/x would be way
>>>> cool.
>>>>
>>>> The thing I dig about my current rig is it feels very responsive and is
>>>> very playable, if you know what i mean. Does the VG99 feel like a real
>>>> amp setup, presuming you run it through a good tube power section lie a
>>>> 2020? By the way, I rarely play heavy rock any more. I usually play
>>>> funk, R&B, fusion or jazz.
>>>>
>>>> alex plasko wrote:
>>>>> bill, I should have been more specific.I should have said that I'm not
>>>>> crazy about the Les Paul models.It may be more the way the patch is
>>>>> written than the actual model
>>>>> The patches using the standard humbuckers and P90's just don't sound
>>>>> right to me.again im saying the factory patches , not the potential of
>>>>> the VG99.
>>>>> Part of it may also be the amp models they used for those patches.
>>>>> This thing is endlessly tweakable.
>>>>> 2 separate ,simultaneous guitar models,2 separate simultaneous
>>>>> amp/effects chains ,filters,EQ,flexible routing ,sheesh......
>>>>> and then buss EQ/effects after that.
>>>>> you want a Rick 360 and a danelectro56 through a Marshall stack and a
>>>>> Solano SLO100 at the same time? no problem.
>>>>> you want altered tuning? the impossible is possible with this thing.
>>>>> sticking a pickup at the 12th fret ?what?
>>>>> sorry for being unclear about the electric models.
>>>>> The VG99 has some serious processing power(double the previous)
>>>>> It fills so many needs I think everyone should get one.
>>>>> A VG99 through a stereo tube amp like a mesa 20/20 would be very
>>>>> convenient for gigs.
>>>>> anyway your going to have to get one to dig in on the capability of
>>>>> this thing cause a store demo wont give you the picture, unless you
>>>>> spend a day with the manual.
>>>>>
>>>>> I"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:479a14f7@linux...
>>>>>> Alex, I'm interested in something you wrote, "I'm not
>>>>>> crazy about the electric guitar models..." Really? I would have
>>>>>> expected the electric guitars to be best. What's wrong with them?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> alex plasko wrote:
>>>>>>> if you get a Roland VG99 you wont have the issues that the variax
>>>>>>> has. I use mine with a Brian Moore DC-1/13 and there are no
>>>>>>> artifacts ,any tuning imaginablealot more flexibility in designing
>>>>>>> your own models etc.
>>>>>>> you can install a GK-2 pickup on any guitar if you don't have or
>>>>>>> want one with one built in.
>>>>>>> there is absolutely NO delay as with a midi guitar setup.
>>>>>>> there is also a midi out if you would like to drive a synth
>>>>>>> from the VG99.
>>>>>>> there are allot of models built in and infinite ways to vary
>>>>>>> those.I'm not crazy about the electric guitar models but the
>>>>>>> acoustic models kick ass.
>>>>>>> way too much for me to write about now.
>>>>>>> and it can be had for around $1000
>>>>>>> the martin D-28 model is my favorite so far.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:47989b01@linux...
>>>>>>>> Once again, thanks to all for the contributions...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All this dialog has given me a wicked idea: instead of shelling out
>>>>>>>> almost $3K on a Taylor, I could get for roughly the same amount
>>>>>>>> both a decent Breedlove chosen mainly for its acoustic properties,
>>>>>>>> *and* a Variax 700 for live playing where a "reasonable" substitute
>>>>>>>> is good enough.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But I read some comments on the Variax that make me nervous - I
>>>>>>>> cannot find a Variax locally, and may have to (gulp!) mail-order
>>>>>>>> one. The comment in question comes up frequently in various review
>>>>>>>> databases, and goes along these lines: apparently, the Variax 700
>>>>>>>> has a significant deficiency in the sustain area (enough to be
>>>>>>>> considered an unacceptable compromise by several reviewers).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So Jamie (and anyone else who "believes" in the Variax): did you
>>>>>>>> find such a flaw in the Variax's sustain? How usable is it really?
>>>>>>>> And (as an add-on bonus question) how convincing and artifact-free
>>>>>>>> are the altered tunings? Would you trust it enough to buy one via
>>>>>>>> mail order?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks to all again,
>>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:47963ccf$1@linux...
>>>>>>>>> For live acoustic guitar gigs I currently use a Line 6 Variax 700
>>>>>>>>> Acoustic modeling guitar. This is the one that looks like an
>>>>>>>>> acoustic guitar, not the PRS-ish looking electric 700 version,
>>>>>>>>> although I have one of those too.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The acoustic 700 VAX sounds quite good through the PA. It doesn't
>>>>>>>>> feed back. Even when using the built-in compressor which is really
>>>>>>>>> nice to use on fingerpicked songs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Acoustically it's fairly quiet, good for late night practicing
>>>>>>>>> without waking anyone. But without plugging it in, it's not a
>>>>>>>>> booming sing-around-the-campfire acoustic guitar.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It has multiple guitar models to choose from including several
>>>>>>>>> that are bread and butter, plus a few non-guitar models like
>>>>>>>>> banjo, sitar and mandella.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It also can do alternate tunings on the fly (via DSP so not quite
>>>>>>>>> as great as tuning them yourself, but for live it's fine and -
>>>>>>>>> important for shows - instant). It can also imitate a 12 string
>>>>>>>>> (again via DSP).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It looks good, with nice grain on the top. It's has a shallow
>>>>>>>>> body. It plays well. The upper strings have 24 frets, very rare
>>>>>>>>> for an acoustic.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's more affordable than a high-end acoustic, and therefore less
>>>>>>>>> of a risk at gigs. It sounds as good or better through a PA than
>>>>>>>>> any other acoustic guitar I've heard.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The only acoustic guitar thing it doesn't do well is body slaps,
>>>>>>>>> which is probably why it never feeds back.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The output is mono. I do use it for recording direct sometimes. It
>>>>>>>>> sits nicely in the track and is good for L/R panned part doubling
>>>>>>>>> using different models.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> D.P. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent
>>>>>>>>>> acoustic (with electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem
>>>>>>>>>> to be converging towards a Taylor (something along the 714CE or
>>>>>>>>>> 814CE).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for
>>>>>>>>>> any potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier,
>>>>>>>>>> I don't think I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a
>>>>>>>>>> reference, the 714CE would cost around $2800). I don't know many
>>>>>>>>>> luthiers, and the ones I do know have a worldwide reputation (and
>>>>>>>>>> are therefore not making guitars for $2800 - more like $5k and
>>>>>>>>>> up).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the
>>>>>>>>>> Martin OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be
>>>>>>>>>> incredibly ugly, but quite playable, although the action is
>>>>>>>>>> typical Martin (i.e. high action, a guitar that you have to dig
>>>>>>>>>> in hard). Since I play mostly electric, the nice low action of
>>>>>>>>>> Taylors is appealing to me.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or
>>>>>>>>>> specific, good or bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>> Dan
>>>
>>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95099 is a reply to message #95040] |
Sat, 26 January 2008 11:19 |
|
|
Hey I know I'm late to this party.. But, I would recommend the following:
-For Live playing:Godin A6
-Or add a Fass Tremolo to your electric
"alex plasko" <alex.plasko@snet.net> wrote:
>if you get a Roland VG99 you wont have the issues that the variax has. I
use
>mine with a Brian Moore DC-1/13 and there are no artifacts ,any tuning
>imaginablealot more flexibility in designing your own models etc.
>you can install a GK-2 pickup on any guitar if you don't have or want one
>with one built in.
>there is absolutely NO delay as with a midi guitar setup.
>there is also a midi out if you would like to drive a synth
>from the VG99.
>there are allot of models built in and infinite ways to vary those.I'm
not
>crazy about the electric guitar models but the acoustic models kick ass.
>way too much for me to write about now.
>and it can be had for around $1000
>the martin D-28 model is my favorite so far.
>
>"D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote in message news:47989b01@linux...
>> Once again, thanks to all for the contributions...
>>
>> All this dialog has given me a wicked idea: instead of shelling out almost
>> $3K on a Taylor, I could get for roughly the same amount both a decent
>> Breedlove chosen mainly for its acoustic properties, *and* a Variax 700
>> for live playing where a "reasonable" substitute is good enough.
>>
>> But I read some comments on the Variax that make me nervous - I cannot
>> find a Variax locally, and may have to (gulp!) mail-order one. The comment
>> in question comes up frequently in various review databases, and goes
>> along these lines: apparently, the Variax 700 has a significant deficiency
>> in the sustain area (enough to be considered an unacceptable compromise
by
>> several reviewers).
>>
>> So Jamie (and anyone else who "believes" in the Variax): did you find
such
>> a flaw in the Variax's sustain? How usable is it really? And (as an add-on
>> bonus question) how convincing and artifact-free are the altered tunings?
>> Would you trust it enough to buy one via mail order?
>>
>> Thanks to all again,
>> Dan
>>
>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:47963ccf$1@linux...
>>>
>>> For live acoustic guitar gigs I currently use a Line 6 Variax 700
>>> Acoustic modeling guitar. This is the one that looks like an acoustic
>>> guitar, not the PRS-ish looking electric 700 version, although I have
one
>>> of those too.
>>>
>>> The acoustic 700 VAX sounds quite good through the PA. It doesn't feed
>>> back. Even when using the built-in compressor which is really nice to
use
>>> on fingerpicked songs.
>>>
>>> Acoustically it's fairly quiet, good for late night practicing without
>>> waking anyone. But without plugging it in, it's not a booming
>>> sing-around-the-campfire acoustic guitar.
>>>
>>> It has multiple guitar models to choose from including several that are
>>> bread and butter, plus a few non-guitar models like banjo, sitar and
>>> mandella.
>>>
>>> It also can do alternate tunings on the fly (via DSP so not quite as
>>> great as tuning them yourself, but for live it's fine and - important
for
>>> shows - instant). It can also imitate a 12 string (again via DSP).
>>>
>>> It looks good, with nice grain on the top. It's has a shallow body. It
>>> plays well. The upper strings have 24 frets, very rare for an acoustic.
>>>
>>> It's more affordable than a high-end acoustic, and therefore less of
a
>>> risk at gigs. It sounds as good or better through a PA than any other
>>> acoustic guitar I've heard.
>>>
>>> The only acoustic guitar thing it doesn't do well is body slaps, which
is
>>> probably why it never feeds back.
>>>
>>> The output is mono. I do use it for recording direct sometimes. It sits
>>> nicely in the track and is good for L/R panned part doubling using
>>> different models.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> -Jamie
>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>
>>>
>>> D.P. wrote:
>>>> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic
>>>> (with electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be converging
>>>> towards a Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>>>>
>>>> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for any
>>>> potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier, I don't
>>>> think I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a reference,
the
>>>> 714CE would cost around $2800). I don't know many luthiers, and the
ones
>>>> I do know have a worldwide reputation (and are therefore not making
>>>> guitars for $2800 - more like $5k and up).
>>>>
>>>> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the Martin
>>>> OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be incredibly ugly,
but
>>>> quite playable, although the action is typical Martin (i.e. high action,
>>>> a guitar that you have to dig in hard). Since I play mostly electric,
>>>> the nice low action of Taylors is appealing to me.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or specific,
>>>> good or bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Dan
>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95105 is a reply to message #95090] |
Sat, 26 January 2008 10:40 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
If anyone in Colorado with a VG99 wants to do a comparison test between
the Variaxen and the VG99, hit me up!
My guess is that for acoustic sounds, those on the Variax _Acoustic 700_
will be the best because the entire instrument is designed for that.
If the VG99 is in the same league as the _electric guitar Variax_ for
acoustic models, that would be a big step forward and well worth using.
I didn't think the VG88 got there.
It's great to see progress with this stuff.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
alex plasko wrote:
> yes and mix it with a virtual guitar as well!
> the demos don't do the acoustic guitars justice. I don't know what they did
> when they recorded those demos but the acoustics sound better than that.
> "Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:479b3227$1@linux...
>> Alex, one more question (thanks for your data): can I route my regular
>> guitar pickup signal through the unit too?
>>
>> Bill L wrote:
>>> Very nice demo! Great players, too. Just having those bass sounds would
>>> be valuable for me in a trio format, switching off playing bass with the
>>> keyboard player. I was not impressed with the acoustic guitar sounds but
>>> i liked the sitar! And that beam thingy looks like fun too.
>>>
>>> I'm gonna have to get one and try it out.
>>>
>>> alex plasko wrote:
>>>> bill here is a link to their video demo's for the VG99
>>>> it should give you a rough idea of what this is capable of.
>>>> as far as feeling the same as a real tube amp, uh naah, but I haven't
>>>> tried this through a tube amp yet so I don't know for sure.
>>>> I don't get the same feeling as playing through my lp-9 through my mesa
>>>> roadking, or one of my marshalls.
>>>> the tradeoff is extreme versatility .and its not a one trick pony your
>>>> locked in to as with with one amp one guitar at the gig or session .
>>>> you have a wide range of different sounds with the VG99,an amp, and
>>>> your favorite guitar.add a floor board controller if you need to
>>>> control the effects or whatever. I change patches right from my DC-1/13
>>>> the VG99 has a built in light beam controller and a ribbon controller so
>>>> if you set it on a stand right in front of you you have that option.
>>>> unless you rather dance on the floor controller...
>>>> anyway check out the videos.
>>>> I think the amp models are better than on the Vetta 2, and there are
>>>> allot more slots(400)
>>>> the only thing on the vetta I like better is the roger mayer Octavia
>>>> effect.
>>>> is it better than a pod? I think so
>>>> more variation than on a variax? allot more
>>>> better than VG88 or VG8? double the processors.
>>>> It's not modeling nirvana yet, but 2 steps closer than last year.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectI d=849&skip=true&page=video&file=vg-99_demo_video _pt1.flv
>>>> "Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:479a4e65@linux...
>>>>> Kool, Alex. I'm currently using a Vox Tonelab into a Mesa Boogie
>>>>> Satellite which is a combo style 1x12 amp designed to be a stereo add
>>>>> on to a regular combo (it has no real preamp). I play either a custom
>>>>> Strat style guitar or an Ibanez Artist 335 style, depending on the gig.
>>>>> I'm overall pretty happy with the Tonelab and Mesa tone and feel, but I
>>>>> am looking for more sounds and options, and versatility like having a
>>>>> decent bass sound or an acoustic sound, plus better f/x would be way
>>>>> cool.
>>>>>
>>>>> The thing I dig about my current rig is it feels very responsive and is
>>>>> very playable, if you know what i mean. Does the VG99 feel like a real
>>>>> amp setup, presuming you run it through a good tube power section lie a
>>>>> 2020? By the way, I rarely play heavy rock any more. I usually play
>>>>> funk, R&B, fusion or jazz.
>>>>>
>>>>> alex plasko wrote:
>>>>>> bill, I should have been more specific.I should have said that I'm not
>>>>>> crazy about the Les Paul models.It may be more the way the patch is
>>>>>> written than the actual model
>>>>>> The patches using the standard humbuckers and P90's just don't sound
>>>>>> right to me.again im saying the factory patches , not the potential of
>>>>>> the VG99.
>>>>>> Part of it may also be the amp models they used for those patches.
>>>>>> This thing is endlessly tweakable.
>>>>>> 2 separate ,simultaneous guitar models,2 separate simultaneous
>>>>>> amp/effects chains ,filters,EQ,flexible routing ,sheesh......
>>>>>> and then buss EQ/effects after that.
>>>>>> you want a Rick 360 and a danelectro56 through a Marshall stack and a
>>>>>> Solano SLO100 at the same time? no problem.
>>>>>> you want altered tuning? the impossible is possible with this thing.
>>>>>> sticking a pickup at the 12th fret ?what?
>>>>>> sorry for being unclear about the electric models.
>>>>>> The VG99 has some serious processing power(double the previous)
>>>>>> It fills so many needs I think everyone should get one.
>>>>>> A VG99 through a stereo tube amp like a mesa 20/20 would be very
>>>>>> convenient for gigs.
>>>>>> anyway your going to have to get one to dig in on the capability of
>>>>>> this thing cause a store demo wont give you the picture, unless you
>>>>>> spend a day with the manual.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:479a14f7@linux...
>>>>>>> Alex, I'm interested in something you wrote, "I'm not
>>>>>>> crazy about the electric guitar models..." Really? I would have
>>>>>>> expected the electric guitars to be best. What's wrong with them?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> alex plasko wrote:
>>>>>>>> if you get a Roland VG99 you wont have the issues that the variax
>>>>>>>> has. I use mine with a Brian Moore DC-1/13 and there are no
>>>>>>>> artifacts ,any tuning imaginablealot more flexibility in designing
>>>>>>>> your own models etc.
>>>>>>>> you can install a GK-2 pickup on any guitar if you don't have or
>>>>>>>> want one with one built in.
>>>>>>>> there is absolutely NO delay as with a midi guitar setup.
>>>>>>>> there is also a midi out if you would like to drive a synth
>>>>>>>> from the VG99.
>>>>>>>> there are allot of models built in and infinite ways to vary
>>>>>>>> those.I'm not crazy about the electric guitar models but the
>>>>>>>> acoustic models kick ass.
>>>>>>>> way too much for me to write about now.
>>>>>>>> and it can be had for around $1000
>>>>>>>> the martin D-28 model is my favorite so far.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:47989b01@linux...
>>>>>>>>> Once again, thanks to all for the contributions...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All this dialog has given me a wicked idea: instead of shelling out
>>>>>>>>> almost $3K on a Taylor, I could get for roughly the same amount
>>>>>>>>> both a decent Breedlove chosen mainly for its acoustic properties,
>>>>>>>>> *and* a Variax 700 for live playing where a "reasonable" substitute
>>>>>>>>> is good enough.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But I read some comments on the Variax that make me nervous - I
>>>>>>>>> cannot find a Variax locally, and may have to (gulp!) mail-order
>>>>>>>>> one. The comment in question comes up frequently in various review
>>>>>>>>> databases, and goes along these lines: apparently, the Variax 700
>>>>>>>>> has a significant deficiency in the sustain area (enough to be
>>>>>>>>> considered an unacceptable compromise by several reviewers).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So Jamie (and anyone else who "believes" in the Variax): did you
>>>>>>>>> find such a flaw in the Variax's sustain? How usable is it really?
>>>>>>>>> And (as an add-on bonus question) how convincing and artifact-free
>>>>>>>>> are the altered tunings? Would you trust it enough to buy one via
>>>>>>>>> mail order?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks to all again,
>>>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:47963ccf$1@linux...
>>>>>>>>>> For live acoustic guitar gigs I currently use a Line 6 Variax 700
>>>>>>>>>> Acoustic modeling guitar. This is the one that looks like an
>>>>>>>>>> acoustic guitar, not the PRS-ish looking electric 700 version,
>>>>>>>>>> although I have one of those too.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The acoustic 700 VAX sounds quite good through the PA. It doesn't
>>>>>>>>>> feed back. Even when using the built-in compressor which is really
>>>>>>>>>> nice to use on fingerpicked songs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Acoustically it's fairly quiet, good for late night practicing
>>>>>>>>>> without waking anyone. But without plugging it in, it's not a
>>>>>>>>>> booming sing-around-the-campfire acoustic guitar.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It has multiple guitar models to choose from including several
>>>>>>>>>> that are bread and butter, plus a few non-guitar models like
>>>>>>>>>> banjo, sitar and mandella.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It also can do alternate tunings on the fly (via DSP so not quite
>>>>>>>>>> as great as tuning them yourself, but for live it's fine and -
>>>>>>>>>> important for shows - instant). It can also imitate a 12 string
>>>>>>>>>> (again via DSP).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It looks good, with nice grain on the top. It's has a shallow
>>>>>>>>>> body. It plays well. The upper strings have 24 frets, very rare
>>>>>>>>>> for an acoustic.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's more affordable than a high-end acoustic, and therefore less
>>>>>>>>>> of a risk at gigs. It sounds as good or better through a PA than
>>>>>>>>>> any other acoustic guitar I've heard.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The only acoustic guitar thing it doesn't do well is body slaps,
>>>>>>>>>> which is probably why it never feeds back.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The output is mono. I do use it for recording direct sometimes. It
>>>>>>>>>> sits nicely in the track and is good for L/R panned part doubling
>>>>>>>>>> using different models.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> D.P. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent
>>>>>>>>>>> acoustic (with electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem
>>>>>>>>>>> to be converging towards a Taylor (something along the 714CE or
>>>>>>>>>>> 814CE).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for
>>>>>>>>>>> any potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier,
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a
>>>>>>>>>>> reference, the 714CE would cost around $2800). I don't know many
>>>>>>>>>>> luthiers, and the ones I do know have a worldwide reputation (and
>>>>>>>>>>> are therefore not making guitars for $2800 - more like $5k and
>>>>>>>>>>> up).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the
>>>>>>>>>>> Martin OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be
>>>>>>>>>>> incredibly ugly, but quite playable, although the action is
>>>>>>>>>>> typical Martin (i.e. high action, a guitar that you have to dig
>>>>>>>>>>> in hard). Since I play mostly electric, the nice low action of
>>>>>>>>>>> Taylors is appealing to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or
>>>>>>>>>>> specific, good or bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95107 is a reply to message #95105] |
Sat, 26 January 2008 10:51 |
AlexPlasko
Messages: 211
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I'm in Connecticut but id love to hear an A/B anyway
"Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:479b8210@linux...
>
> If anyone in Colorado with a VG99 wants to do a comparison test between
> the Variaxen and the VG99, hit me up!
>
> My guess is that for acoustic sounds, those on the Variax _Acoustic 700_
> will be the best because the entire instrument is designed for that.
>
> If the VG99 is in the same league as the _electric guitar Variax_ for
> acoustic models, that would be a big step forward and well worth using. I
> didn't think the VG88 got there.
>
> It's great to see progress with this stuff.
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>
> alex plasko wrote:
>> yes and mix it with a virtual guitar as well!
>> the demos don't do the acoustic guitars justice. I don't know what they
>> did when they recorded those demos but the acoustics sound better than
>> that.
>> "Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message
>> news:479b3227$1@linux...
>>> Alex, one more question (thanks for your data): can I route my regular
>>> guitar pickup signal through the unit too?
>>>
>>> Bill L wrote:
>>>> Very nice demo! Great players, too. Just having those bass sounds would
>>>> be valuable for me in a trio format, switching off playing bass with
>>>> the keyboard player. I was not impressed with the acoustic guitar
>>>> sounds but i liked the sitar! And that beam thingy looks like fun too.
>>>>
>>>> I'm gonna have to get one and try it out.
>>>>
>>>> alex plasko wrote:
>>>>> bill here is a link to their video demo's for the VG99
>>>>> it should give you a rough idea of what this is capable of.
>>>>> as far as feeling the same as a real tube amp, uh naah, but I haven't
>>>>> tried this through a tube amp yet so I don't know for sure.
>>>>> I don't get the same feeling as playing through my lp-9 through my
>>>>> mesa roadking, or one of my marshalls.
>>>>> the tradeoff is extreme versatility .and its not a one trick pony your
>>>>> locked in to as with with one amp one guitar at the gig or session .
>>>>> you have a wide range of different sounds with the VG99,an amp, and
>>>>> your favorite guitar.add a floor board controller if you need to
>>>>> control the effects or whatever. I change patches right from my
>>>>> DC-1/13
>>>>> the VG99 has a built in light beam controller and a ribbon controller
>>>>> so if you set it on a stand right in front of you you have that
>>>>> option. unless you rather dance on the floor controller...
>>>>> anyway check out the videos.
>>>>> I think the amp models are better than on the Vetta 2, and there are
>>>>> allot more slots(400)
>>>>> the only thing on the vetta I like better is the roger mayer Octavia
>>>>> effect.
>>>>> is it better than a pod? I think so
>>>>> more variation than on a variax? allot more
>>>>> better than VG88 or VG8? double the processors.
>>>>> It's not modeling nirvana yet, but 2 steps closer than last year.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectI d=849&skip=true&page=video&file=vg-99_demo_video _pt1.flv
>>>>> "Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:479a4e65@linux...
>>>>>> Kool, Alex. I'm currently using a Vox Tonelab into a Mesa Boogie
>>>>>> Satellite which is a combo style 1x12 amp designed to be a stereo add
>>>>>> on to a regular combo (it has no real preamp). I play either a custom
>>>>>> Strat style guitar or an Ibanez Artist 335 style, depending on the
>>>>>> gig. I'm overall pretty happy with the Tonelab and Mesa tone and
>>>>>> feel, but I am looking for more sounds and options, and versatility
>>>>>> like having a decent bass sound or an acoustic sound, plus better f/x
>>>>>> would be way cool.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The thing I dig about my current rig is it feels very responsive and
>>>>>> is very playable, if you know what i mean. Does the VG99 feel like a
>>>>>> real amp setup, presuming you run it through a good tube power
>>>>>> section lie a 2020? By the way, I rarely play heavy rock any more. I
>>>>>> usually play funk, R&B, fusion or jazz.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> alex plasko wrote:
>>>>>>> bill, I should have been more specific.I should have said that I'm
>>>>>>> not crazy about the Les Paul models.It may be more the way the patch
>>>>>>> is written than the actual model
>>>>>>> The patches using the standard humbuckers and P90's just don't sound
>>>>>>> right to me.again im saying the factory patches , not the potential
>>>>>>> of the VG99.
>>>>>>> Part of it may also be the amp models they used for those patches.
>>>>>>> This thing is endlessly tweakable.
>>>>>>> 2 separate ,simultaneous guitar models,2 separate simultaneous
>>>>>>> amp/effects chains ,filters,EQ,flexible routing ,sheesh......
>>>>>>> and then buss EQ/effects after that.
>>>>>>> you want a Rick 360 and a danelectro56 through a Marshall stack and
>>>>>>> a Solano SLO100 at the same time? no problem.
>>>>>>> you want altered tuning? the impossible is possible with this thing.
>>>>>>> sticking a pickup at the 12th fret ?what?
>>>>>>> sorry for being unclear about the electric models.
>>>>>>> The VG99 has some serious processing power(double the previous)
>>>>>>> It fills so many needs I think everyone should get one.
>>>>>>> A VG99 through a stereo tube amp like a mesa 20/20 would be very
>>>>>>> convenient for gigs.
>>>>>>> anyway your going to have to get one to dig in on the capability of
>>>>>>> this thing cause a store demo wont give you the picture, unless you
>>>>>>> spend a day with the manual.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:479a14f7@linux...
>>>>>>>> Alex, I'm interested in something you wrote, "I'm not
>>>>>>>> crazy about the electric guitar models..." Really? I would have
>>>>>>>> expected the electric guitars to be best. What's wrong with them?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> alex plasko wrote:
>>>>>>>>> if you get a Roland VG99 you wont have the issues that the variax
>>>>>>>>> has. I use mine with a Brian Moore DC-1/13 and there are no
>>>>>>>>> artifacts ,any tuning imaginablealot more flexibility in designing
>>>>>>>>> your own models etc.
>>>>>>>>> you can install a GK-2 pickup on any guitar if you don't have or
>>>>>>>>> want one with one built in.
>>>>>>>>> there is absolutely NO delay as with a midi guitar setup.
>>>>>>>>> there is also a midi out if you would like to drive a synth
>>>>>>>>> from the VG99.
>>>>>>>>> there are allot of models built in and infinite ways to vary
>>>>>>>>> those.I'm not crazy about the electric guitar models but the
>>>>>>>>> acoustic models kick ass.
>>>>>>>>> way too much for me to write about now.
>>>>>>>>> and it can be had for around $1000
>>>>>>>>> the martin D-28 model is my favorite so far.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:47989b01@linux...
>>>>>>>>>> Once again, thanks to all for the contributions...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All this dialog has given me a wicked idea: instead of shelling
>>>>>>>>>> out almost $3K on a Taylor, I could get for roughly the same
>>>>>>>>>> amount both a decent Breedlove chosen mainly for its acoustic
>>>>>>>>>> properties, *and* a Variax 700 for live playing where a
>>>>>>>>>> "reasonable" substitute is good enough.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But I read some comments on the Variax that make me nervous - I
>>>>>>>>>> cannot find a Variax locally, and may have to (gulp!) mail-order
>>>>>>>>>> one. The comment in question comes up frequently in various
>>>>>>>>>> review databases, and goes along these lines: apparently, the
>>>>>>>>>> Variax 700 has a significant deficiency in the sustain area
>>>>>>>>>> (enough to be considered an unacceptable compromise by several
>>>>>>>>>> reviewers).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So Jamie (and anyone else who "believes" in the Variax): did you
>>>>>>>>>> find such a flaw in the Variax's sustain? How usable is it
>>>>>>>>>> really? And (as an add-on bonus question) how convincing and
>>>>>>>>>> artifact-free are the altered tunings? Would you trust it enough
>>>>>>>>>> to buy one via mail order?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks to all again,
>>>>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:47963ccf$1@linux...
>>>>>>>>>>> For live acoustic guitar gigs I currently use a Line 6 Variax
>>>>>>>>>>> 700 Acoustic modeling guitar. This is the one that looks like an
>>>>>>>>>>> acoustic guitar, not the PRS-ish looking electric 700 version,
>>>>>>>>>>> although I have one of those too.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The acoustic 700 VAX sounds quite good through the PA. It
>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't feed back. Even when using the built-in compressor which
>>>>>>>>>>> is really nice to use on fingerpicked songs.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Acoustically it's fairly quiet, good for late night practicing
>>>>>>>>>>> without waking anyone. But without plugging it in, it's not a
>>>>>>>>>>> booming sing-around-the-campfire acoustic guitar.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It has multiple guitar models to choose from including several
>>>>>>>>>>> that are bread and butter, plus a few non-guitar models like
>>>>>>>>>>> banjo, sitar and mandella.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It also can do alternate tunings on the fly (via DSP so not
>>>>>>>>>>> quite as great as tuning them yourself, but for live it's fine
>>>>>>>>>>> and - important for shows - instant). It can also imitate a 12
>>>>>>>>>>> string (again via DSP).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It looks good, with nice grain on the top. It's has a shallow
>>>>>>>>>>> body. It plays well. The upper strings have 24 frets, very rare
>>>>>>>>>>> for an acoustic.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's more affordable than a high-end acoustic, and therefore
>>>>>>>>>>> less of a risk at gigs. It sounds as good or better through a PA
>>>>>>>>>>> than any other acoustic guitar I've heard.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The only acoustic guitar thing it doesn't do well is body slaps,
>>>>>>>>>>> which is probably why it never feeds back.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The output is mono. I do use it for recording direct sometimes.
>>>>>>>>>>> It sits nicely in the track and is good for L/R panned part
>>>>>>>>>>> doubling using different models.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> D.P. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent
>>>>>>>>>>>> acoustic (with electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> seem to be converging towards a Taylor (something along the
>>>>>>>>>>>> 714CE or 814CE).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around
>>>>>>>>>>>> for any potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a
>>>>>>>>>>>> luthier, I don't think I'll get much traction with my planned
>>>>>>>>>>>> budget (as a reference, the 714CE would cost around $2800). I
>>>>>>>>>>>> don't know many luthiers, and the ones I do know have a
>>>>>>>>>>>> worldwide reputation (and are therefore not making guitars for
>>>>>>>>>>>> $2800 - more like $5k and up).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to
>>>>>>>>>>>> the Martin OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be
>>>>>>>>>>>> incredibly ugly, but quite playable, although the action is
>>>>>>>>>>>> typical Martin (i.e. high action, a guitar that you have to dig
>>>>>>>>>>>> in hard). Since I play mostly electric, the nice low action of
>>>>>>>>>>>> Taylors is appealing to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or
>>>>>>>>>>>> specific, good or bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95693 is a reply to message #95064] |
Wed, 06 February 2008 21:06 |
Brendan
Messages: 1
Registered: February 2008
|
Junior Member |
|
|
I had the Taylor 414ce Ltd, which I loved however unless you're
going to fork out another $1000 or more on an amp, the expression system
pick-up won't come into it's own. Through a standard P.A, I found the ES
very hard to control the bass. When stumming the bass made a huge boom, cutting
over other instruments and when picking the bass notes would ring into feedback
at the drop of a hat.
I've been plyying for many years and have had similar problems with cheaper
systems but considering the hype Taylor gives it's ES I wasn't expecting
it. Plus the fact that the ES is more advanced makes it harder to get that
amplified sound you want.
Put it through a Genz Benz or the new Fender acoustatronic Head and Cab and
then you're feeling the love!
Anyhoo, I got the OMC Aura and through the Amp, it's all that
and a bag of potato chips, plus through the standard PA with
the band, it sounds really amazing too!
The look is an aquired taste I must say as it's an odd shape if
you're used to the Dreadnought or even the G/Auditorum and
there's a lot of bling on it but I love it!
mmmmmmmmmmmmm
Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>
>The earlier VG8 and VG88 were not as good as the Variax at guitar
>modeling when I tried them. Particularly the acoustic and strat models.
>I haven't auditioned the VG99 yet but I've been monitoring a discussion
>group which covers all of the Rolands, including the VG99:
>
> http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/vg-8/messages
>
> From comments on that group, all is not roses with the VG99. But it
>does offer some advantages:
>
> 1) Play a guitar you already like.
> 2) It also does amp modeling, (if you like Roland's models)
>
>Disadvantages:
>
> 1) Another $1000+
> 2) Another box to haul to gigs
> 3) For me, I'd need the additional footswitch unit
> 4) Requires adding a special pickup system
>
>If the VG99 can do long jump alt tunings with absolutely no artifacts,
>that's pretty huge. I'll have to hear it to believe it.
>
> From what I've heard, on the MIDI side the tracking is no better than
>the my GR-33, which isn't that great, but I'm glad they included MIDI
>out capability anyway (something Line 6 ought to consider).
>
>It's always nice to have another choice.
>
>Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>
>Bill L wrote:
>> Alex, I'm interested in something you wrote, "I'm not
>> crazy about the electric guitar models..." Really? I would have expected
>> the electric guitars to be best. What's wrong with them?
>>
>> alex plasko wrote:
>>> if you get a Roland VG99 you wont have the issues that the variax has.
>>> I use mine with a Brian Moore DC-1/13 and there are no artifacts ,any
>>> tuning imaginablealot more flexibility in designing your own models etc.
>>> you can install a GK-2 pickup on any guitar if you don't have or want
>>> one with one built in.
>>> there is absolutely NO delay as with a midi guitar setup.
>>> there is also a midi out if you would like to drive a synth
>>> from the VG99.
>>> there are allot of models built in and infinite ways to vary
>>> those.I'm not crazy about the electric guitar models but the acoustic
>>> models kick ass.
>>> way too much for me to write about now.
>>> and it can be had for around $1000
>>> the martin D-28 model is my favorite so far.
>>>
>>> "D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote in message news:47989b01@linux...
>>>> Once again, thanks to all for the contributions...
>>>>
>>>> All this dialog has given me a wicked idea: instead of shelling out
>>>> almost $3K on a Taylor, I could get for roughly the same amount both
>>>> a decent Breedlove chosen mainly for its acoustic properties, *and*
a
>>>> Variax 700 for live playing where a "reasonable" substitute is good
>>>> enough.
>>>>
>>>> But I read some comments on the Variax that make me nervous - I
>>>> cannot find a Variax locally, and may have to (gulp!) mail-order one.
>>>> The comment in question comes up frequently in various review
>>>> databases, and goes along these lines: apparently, the Variax 700 has
>>>> a significant deficiency in the sustain area (enough to be considered
>>>> an unacceptable compromise by several reviewers).
>>>>
>>>> So Jamie (and anyone else who "believes" in the Variax): did you find
>>>> such a flaw in the Variax's sustain? How usable is it really? And (as
>>>> an add-on bonus question) how convincing and artifact-free are the
>>>> altered tunings? Would you trust it enough to buy one via mail order?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to all again,
>>>> Dan
>>>>
>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:47963ccf$1@linux...
>>>>> For live acoustic guitar gigs I currently use a Line 6 Variax 700
>>>>> Acoustic modeling guitar. This is the one that looks like an
>>>>> acoustic guitar, not the PRS-ish looking electric 700 version,
>>>>> although I have one of those too.
>>>>>
>>>>> The acoustic 700 VAX sounds quite good through the PA. It doesn't
>>>>> feed back. Even when using the built-in compressor which is really
>>>>> nice to use on fingerpicked songs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Acoustically it's fairly quiet, good for late night practicing
>>>>> without waking anyone. But without plugging it in, it's not a
>>>>> booming sing-around-the-campfire acoustic guitar.
>>>>>
>>>>> It has multiple guitar models to choose from including several that
>>>>> are bread and butter, plus a few non-guitar models like banjo, sitar
>>>>> and mandella.
>>>>>
>>>>> It also can do alternate tunings on the fly (via DSP so not quite as
>>>>> great as tuning them yourself, but for live it's fine and -
>>>>> important for shows - instant). It can also imitate a 12 string
>>>>> (again via DSP).
>>>>>
>>>>> It looks good, with nice grain on the top. It's has a shallow body.
>>>>> It plays well. The upper strings have 24 frets, very rare for an
>>>>> acoustic.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's more affordable than a high-end acoustic, and therefore less of
>>>>> a risk at gigs. It sounds as good or better through a PA than any
>>>>> other acoustic guitar I've heard.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only acoustic guitar thing it doesn't do well is body slaps,
>>>>> which is probably why it never feeds back.
>>>>>
>>>>> The output is mono. I do use it for recording direct sometimes. It
>>>>> sits nicely in the track and is good for L/R panned part doubling
>>>>> using different models.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> D.P. wrote:
>>>>>> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic
>>>>>> (with electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be
>>>>>> converging towards a Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for
>>>>>> any potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier, I
>>>>>> don't think I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a
>>>>>> reference, the 714CE would cost around $2800). I don't know many
>>>>>> luthiers, and the ones I do know have a worldwide reputation (and
>>>>>> are therefore not making guitars for $2800 - more like $5k and up).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the
>>>>>> Martin OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be
>>>>>> incredibly ugly, but quite playable, although the action is typical
>>>>>> Martin (i.e. high action, a guitar that you have to dig in hard).
>>>>>> Since I play mostly electric, the nice low action of Taylors is
>>>>>> appealing to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or
>>>>>> specific, good or bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Dan
>>>>
>>>
>>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95698 is a reply to message #95693] |
Wed, 06 February 2008 21:45 |
Nei
Messages: 108
Registered: November 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I think someone mentioned a Takamine as a possible option
much earlier in this thread... I have a Takamine 12-string
acoustic with a piezo p'up with built-in volume, bass, & treble
controls, from the early 80's (IIRC, i got it in '81 or '82),
and it still plays great, sounds nice either mic'ed or using
the pickup - I haven't played any of their newer guitars, but
if they still make 'em in the same level of quality, I think
that brand would definitely be worth checking out.
Neil
"Brendan" <bmcgreev007@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>I had the Taylor 414ce Ltd, which I loved however unless you're
>going to fork out another $1000 or more on an amp, the expression system
>pick-up won't come into it's own. Through a standard P.A, I found the ES
>very hard to control the bass. When stumming the bass made a huge boom,
cutting
>over other instruments and when picking the bass notes would ring into feedback
>at the drop of a hat.
>
>I've been plyying for many years and have had similar problems with cheaper
>systems but considering the hype Taylor gives it's ES I wasn't expecting
>it. Plus the fact that the ES is more advanced makes it harder to get that
>amplified sound you want.
>
>Put it through a Genz Benz or the new Fender acoustatronic Head and Cab
and
>then you're feeling the love!
>
>Anyhoo, I got the OMC Aura and through the Amp, it's all that
>and a bag of potato chips, plus through the standard PA with
>the band, it sounds really amazing too!
>
>The look is an aquired taste I must say as it's an odd shape if
>you're used to the Dreadnought or even the G/Auditorum and
>there's a lot of bling on it but I love it!
>
>mmmmmmmmmmmmm
>
>
>Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>
>>The earlier VG8 and VG88 were not as good as the Variax at guitar
>>modeling when I tried them. Particularly the acoustic and strat models.
>
>>I haven't auditioned the VG99 yet but I've been monitoring a discussion
>
>>group which covers all of the Rolands, including the VG99:
>>
>> http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/vg-8/messages
>>
>> From comments on that group, all is not roses with the VG99. But it
>>does offer some advantages:
>>
>> 1) Play a guitar you already like.
>> 2) It also does amp modeling, (if you like Roland's models)
>>
>>Disadvantages:
>>
>> 1) Another $1000+
>> 2) Another box to haul to gigs
>> 3) For me, I'd need the additional footswitch unit
>> 4) Requires adding a special pickup system
>>
>>If the VG99 can do long jump alt tunings with absolutely no artifacts,
>>that's pretty huge. I'll have to hear it to believe it.
>>
>> From what I've heard, on the MIDI side the tracking is no better than
>>the my GR-33, which isn't that great, but I'm glad they included MIDI
>>out capability anyway (something Line 6 ought to consider).
>>
>>It's always nice to have another choice.
>>
>>Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>>
>>Bill L wrote:
>>> Alex, I'm interested in something you wrote, "I'm not
>>> crazy about the electric guitar models..." Really? I would have expected
>
>>> the electric guitars to be best. What's wrong with them?
>>>
>>> alex plasko wrote:
>>>> if you get a Roland VG99 you wont have the issues that the variax has.
>
>>>> I use mine with a Brian Moore DC-1/13 and there are no artifacts ,any
>
>>>> tuning imaginablealot more flexibility in designing your own models
etc.
>>>> you can install a GK-2 pickup on any guitar if you don't have or want
>
>>>> one with one built in.
>>>> there is absolutely NO delay as with a midi guitar setup.
>>>> there is also a midi out if you would like to drive a synth
>>>> from the VG99.
>>>> there are allot of models built in and infinite ways to vary
>>>> those.I'm not crazy about the electric guitar models but the acoustic
>
>>>> models kick ass.
>>>> way too much for me to write about now.
>>>> and it can be had for around $1000
>>>> the martin D-28 model is my favorite so far.
>>>>
>>>> "D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote in message news:47989b01@linux...
>>>>> Once again, thanks to all for the contributions...
>>>>>
>>>>> All this dialog has given me a wicked idea: instead of shelling out
>
>>>>> almost $3K on a Taylor, I could get for roughly the same amount both
>
>>>>> a decent Breedlove chosen mainly for its acoustic properties, *and*
>a
>>>>> Variax 700 for live playing where a "reasonable" substitute is good
>
>>>>> enough.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I read some comments on the Variax that make me nervous - I
>>>>> cannot find a Variax locally, and may have to (gulp!) mail-order one.
>
>>>>> The comment in question comes up frequently in various review
>>>>> databases, and goes along these lines: apparently, the Variax 700 has
>
>>>>> a significant deficiency in the sustain area (enough to be considered
>
>>>>> an unacceptable compromise by several reviewers).
>>>>>
>>>>> So Jamie (and anyone else who "believes" in the Variax): did you find
>
>>>>> such a flaw in the Variax's sustain? How usable is it really? And (as
>
>>>>> an add-on bonus question) how convincing and artifact-free are the
>>>>> altered tunings? Would you trust it enough to buy one via mail order?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks to all again,
>>>>> Dan
>>>>>
>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:47963ccf$1@linux...
>>>>>> For live acoustic guitar gigs I currently use a Line 6 Variax 700
>>>>>> Acoustic modeling guitar. This is the one that looks like an
>>>>>> acoustic guitar, not the PRS-ish looking electric 700 version,
>>>>>> although I have one of those too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The acoustic 700 VAX sounds quite good through the PA. It doesn't
>>>>>> feed back. Even when using the built-in compressor which is really
>
>>>>>> nice to use on fingerpicked songs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Acoustically it's fairly quiet, good for late night practicing
>>>>>> without waking anyone. But without plugging it in, it's not a
>>>>>> booming sing-around-the-campfire acoustic guitar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It has multiple guitar models to choose from including several that
>
>>>>>> are bread and butter, plus a few non-guitar models like banjo, sitar
>
>>>>>> and mandella.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It also can do alternate tunings on the fly (via DSP so not quite
as
>
>>>>>> great as tuning them yourself, but for live it's fine and -
>>>>>> important for shows - instant). It can also imitate a 12 string
>>>>>> (again via DSP).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It looks good, with nice grain on the top. It's has a shallow body.
>
>>>>>> It plays well. The upper strings have 24 frets, very rare for an
>>>>>> acoustic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's more affordable than a high-end acoustic, and therefore less
of
>
>>>>>> a risk at gigs. It sounds as good or better through a PA than any
>>>>>> other acoustic guitar I've heard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only acoustic guitar thing it doesn't do well is body slaps,
>>>>>> which is probably why it never feeds back.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The output is mono. I do use it for recording direct sometimes. It
>
>>>>>> sits nicely in the track and is good for L/R panned part doubling
>>>>>> using different models.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> D.P. wrote:
>>>>>>> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic
>
>>>>>>> (with electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be
>>>>>>> converging towards a Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for
>
>>>>>>> any potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier,
I
>
>>>>>>> don't think I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a
>>>>>>> reference, the 714CE would cost around $2800). I don't know many
>>>>>>> luthiers, and the ones I do know have a worldwide reputation (and
>
>>>>>>> are therefore not making guitars for $2800 - more like $5k and up).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the
>
>>>>>>> Martin OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be
>>>>>>> incredibly ugly, but quite playable, although the action is typical
>
>>>>>>> Martin (i.e. high action, a guitar that you have to dig in hard).
>
>>>>>>> Since I play mostly electric, the nice low action of Taylors is
>>>>>>> appealing to me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or
>>>>>>> specific, good or bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95707 is a reply to message #95693] |
Thu, 07 February 2008 05:47 |
Ed
Messages: 199
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
*GULP* OMC Aura, by Martin? $2750.00!!!! You people must be rich or something.
If I were to spend that kind of dough for an acoustic, I'd expect it to
fly me to Mars, land so I can discover, and fly me back! Otherwise, I'll
stick with my EJ-160 or Ovation.
That said... it is very hard getting a great sound from any acoustic directly
into a mixer or preamp. So many different acoustics I tried. So many different
settings and arrangements... it always sounds like a junkie electric to me...
It's nice to have the built in pickup/preamps for quick open mics, or what-nots...
but I don't look for that anymore. I stick with mic'n the acoustic (like
we use to do -- old school) and control the sound from the preamp/mixer.
Having said that! I recently acquired America's latest DvD... it was a concert
in Australia, I think. WoW! they sound almost as good as back in the 70's!
Anyway, I was at the edge of my rocker (yeah, I am that old.. lol.) with
the remote. They are STILL playing Ovations! To me, there is nothing better.
Just my 2 cents...
~ Ed
"Brendan" <bmcgreev007@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>I had the Taylor 414ce Ltd, which I loved however unless you're
>going to fork out another $1000 or more on an amp, the expression system
>pick-up won't come into it's own. Through a standard P.A, I found the ES
>very hard to control the bass. When stumming the bass made a huge boom,
cutting
>over other instruments and when picking the bass notes would ring into feedback
>at the drop of a hat.
>
>I've been plyying for many years and have had similar problems with cheaper
>systems but considering the hype Taylor gives it's ES I wasn't expecting
>it. Plus the fact that the ES is more advanced makes it harder to get that
>amplified sound you want.
>
>Put it through a Genz Benz or the new Fender acoustatronic Head and Cab
and
>then you're feeling the love!
>
>Anyhoo, I got the OMC Aura and through the Amp, it's all that
>and a bag of potato chips, plus through the standard PA with
>the band, it sounds really amazing too!
>
>The look is an aquired taste I must say as it's an odd shape if
>you're used to the Dreadnought or even the G/Auditorum and
>there's a lot of bling on it but I love it!
>
>mmmmmmmmmmmmm
>
>
>Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>
>>The earlier VG8 and VG88 were not as good as the Variax at guitar
>>modeling when I tried them. Particularly the acoustic and strat models.
>
>>I haven't auditioned the VG99 yet but I've been monitoring a discussion
>
>>group which covers all of the Rolands, including the VG99:
>>
>> http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/vg-8/messages
>>
>> From comments on that group, all is not roses with the VG99. But it
>>does offer some advantages:
>>
>> 1) Play a guitar you already like.
>> 2) It also does amp modeling, (if you like Roland's models)
>>
>>Disadvantages:
>>
>> 1) Another $1000+
>> 2) Another box to haul to gigs
>> 3) For me, I'd need the additional footswitch unit
>> 4) Requires adding a special pickup system
>>
>>If the VG99 can do long jump alt tunings with absolutely no artifacts,
>>that's pretty huge. I'll have to hear it to believe it.
>>
>> From what I've heard, on the MIDI side the tracking is no better than
>>the my GR-33, which isn't that great, but I'm glad they included MIDI
>>out capability anyway (something Line 6 ought to consider).
>>
>>It's always nice to have another choice.
>>
>>Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>>
>>Bill L wrote:
>>> Alex, I'm interested in something you wrote, "I'm not
>>> crazy about the electric guitar models..." Really? I would have expected
>
>>> the electric guitars to be best. What's wrong with them?
>>>
>>> alex plasko wrote:
>>>> if you get a Roland VG99 you wont have the issues that the variax has.
>
>>>> I use mine with a Brian Moore DC-1/13 and there are no artifacts ,any
>
>>>> tuning imaginablealot more flexibility in designing your own models
etc.
>>>> you can install a GK-2 pickup on any guitar if you don't have or want
>
>>>> one with one built in.
>>>> there is absolutely NO delay as with a midi guitar setup.
>>>> there is also a midi out if you would like to drive a synth
>>>> from the VG99.
>>>> there are allot of models built in and infinite ways to vary
>>>> those.I'm not crazy about the electric guitar models but the acoustic
>
>>>> models kick ass.
>>>> way too much for me to write about now.
>>>> and it can be had for around $1000
>>>> the martin D-28 model is my favorite so far.
>>>>
>>>> "D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote in message news:47989b01@linux...
>>>>> Once again, thanks to all for the contributions...
>>>>>
>>>>> All this dialog has given me a wicked idea: instead of shelling out
>
>>>>> almost $3K on a Taylor, I could get for roughly the same amount both
>
>>>>> a decent Breedlove chosen mainly for its acoustic properties, *and*
>a
>>>>> Variax 700 for live playing where a "reasonable" substitute is good
>
>>>>> enough.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I read some comments on the Variax that make me nervous - I
>>>>> cannot find a Variax locally, and may have to (gulp!) mail-order one.
>
>>>>> The comment in question comes up frequently in various review
>>>>> databases, and goes along these lines: apparently, the Variax 700 has
>
>>>>> a significant deficiency in the sustain area (enough to be considered
>
>>>>> an unacceptable compromise by several reviewers).
>>>>>
>>>>> So Jamie (and anyone else who "believes" in the Variax): did you find
>
>>>>> such a flaw in the Variax's sustain? How usable is it really? And (as
>
>>>>> an add-on bonus question) how convincing and artifact-free are the
>>>>> altered tunings? Would you trust it enough to buy one via mail order?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks to all again,
>>>>> Dan
>>>>>
>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:47963ccf$1@linux...
>>>>>> For live acoustic guitar gigs I currently use a Line 6 Variax 700
>>>>>> Acoustic modeling guitar. This is the one that looks like an
>>>>>> acoustic guitar, not the PRS-ish looking electric 700 version,
>>>>>> although I have one of those too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The acoustic 700 VAX sounds quite good through the PA. It doesn't
>>>>>> feed back. Even when using the built-in compressor which is really
>
>>>>>> nice to use on fingerpicked songs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Acoustically it's fairly quiet, good for late night practicing
>>>>>> without waking anyone. But without plugging it in, it's not a
>>>>>> booming sing-around-the-campfire acoustic guitar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It has multiple guitar models to choose from including several that
>
>>>>>> are bread and butter, plus a few non-guitar models like banjo, sitar
>
>>>>>> and mandella.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It also can do alternate tunings on the fly (via DSP so not quite
as
>
>>>>>> great as tuning them yourself, but for live it's fine and -
>>>>>> important for shows - instant). It can also imitate a 12 string
>>>>>> (again via DSP).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It looks good, with nice grain on the top. It's has a shallow body.
>
>>>>>> It plays well. The upper strings have 24 frets, very rare for an
>>>>>> acoustic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's more affordable than a high-end acoustic, and therefore less
of
>
>>>>>> a risk at gigs. It sounds as good or better through a PA than any
>>>>>> other acoustic guitar I've heard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only acoustic guitar thing it doesn't do well is body slaps,
>>>>>> which is probably why it never feeds back.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The output is mono. I do use it for recording direct sometimes. It
>
>>>>>> sits nicely in the track and is good for L/R panned part doubling
>>>>>> using different models.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> D.P. wrote:
>>>>>>> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic
>
>>>>>>> (with electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be
>>>>>>> converging towards a Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for
>
>>>>>>> any potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier,
I
>
>>>>>>> don't think I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a
>>>>>>> reference, the 714CE would cost around $2800). I don't know many
>>>>>>> luthiers, and the ones I do know have a worldwide reputation (and
>
>>>>>>> are therefore not making guitars for $2800 - more like $5k and up).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the
>
>>>>>>> Martin OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be
>>>>>>> incredibly ugly, but quite playable, although the action is typical
>
>>>>>>> Martin (i.e. high action, a guitar that you have to dig in hard).
>
>>>>>>> Since I play mostly electric, the nice low action of Taylors is
>>>>>>> appealing to me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or
>>>>>>> specific, good or bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95716 is a reply to message #95707] |
Thu, 07 February 2008 10:14 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hey Ed, Ovations actually CAN travel through interplanetary space. I
know this because of the Boston album cover where their secret was first
revealed.
However, once you get to Mars, the acoustics are very strange due to the
thin atmosphere. So these days I only fly my Ovation as far as the
corner store.
While my Ovation sounds decent enough, my acoustic Variax sounds better
and is more aurally flexible. However the Variax doesn't do space
flight, so the Ovation comes out ahead overall. :^)
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
Ed wrote:
> *GULP* OMC Aura, by Martin? $2750.00!!!! You people must be rich or something.
> If I were to spend that kind of dough for an acoustic, I'd expect it to
> fly me to Mars, land so I can discover, and fly me back! Otherwise, I'll
> stick with my EJ-160 or Ovation.
>
> That said... it is very hard getting a great sound from any acoustic directly
> into a mixer or preamp. So many different acoustics I tried. So many different
> settings and arrangements... it always sounds like a junkie electric to me...
> It's nice to have the built in pickup/preamps for quick open mics, or what-nots...
> but I don't look for that anymore. I stick with mic'n the acoustic (like
> we use to do -- old school) and control the sound from the preamp/mixer.
>
> Having said that! I recently acquired America's latest DvD... it was a concert
> in Australia, I think. WoW! they sound almost as good as back in the 70's!
> Anyway, I was at the edge of my rocker (yeah, I am that old.. lol.) with
> the remote. They are STILL playing Ovations! To me, there is nothing better.
> Just my 2 cents...
>
> ~ Ed
>
>
>
> "Brendan" <bmcgreev007@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> I had the Taylor 414ce Ltd, which I loved however unless you're
>> going to fork out another $1000 or more on an amp, the expression system
>> pick-up won't come into it's own. Through a standard P.A, I found the ES
>> very hard to control the bass. When stumming the bass made a huge boom,
> cutting
>> over other instruments and when picking the bass notes would ring into feedback
>> at the drop of a hat.
>>
>> I've been plyying for many years and have had similar problems with cheaper
>> systems but considering the hype Taylor gives it's ES I wasn't expecting
>> it. Plus the fact that the ES is more advanced makes it harder to get that
>> amplified sound you want.
>>
>> Put it through a Genz Benz or the new Fender acoustatronic Head and Cab
> and
>> then you're feeling the love!
>>
>> Anyhoo, I got the OMC Aura and through the Amp, it's all that
>> and a bag of potato chips, plus through the standard PA with
>> the band, it sounds really amazing too!
>>
>> The look is an aquired taste I must say as it's an odd shape if
>> you're used to the Dreadnought or even the G/Auditorum and
>> there's a lot of bling on it but I love it!
>>
>> mmmmmmmmmmmmm
>>
>>
>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>> The earlier VG8 and VG88 were not as good as the Variax at guitar
>>> modeling when I tried them. Particularly the acoustic and strat models.
>>> I haven't auditioned the VG99 yet but I've been monitoring a discussion
>>> group which covers all of the Rolands, including the VG99:
>>>
>>> http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/vg-8/messages
>>>
>>> From comments on that group, all is not roses with the VG99. But it
>>> does offer some advantages:
>>>
>>> 1) Play a guitar you already like.
>>> 2) It also does amp modeling, (if you like Roland's models)
>>>
>>> Disadvantages:
>>>
>>> 1) Another $1000+
>>> 2) Another box to haul to gigs
>>> 3) For me, I'd need the additional footswitch unit
>>> 4) Requires adding a special pickup system
>>>
>>> If the VG99 can do long jump alt tunings with absolutely no artifacts,
>
>>> that's pretty huge. I'll have to hear it to believe it.
>>>
>>> From what I've heard, on the MIDI side the tracking is no better than
>
>>> the my GR-33, which isn't that great, but I'm glad they included MIDI
>>> out capability anyway (something Line 6 ought to consider).
>>>
>>> It's always nice to have another choice.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> -Jamie
>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill L wrote:
>>>> Alex, I'm interested in something you wrote, "I'm not
>>>> crazy about the electric guitar models..." Really? I would have expected
>>>> the electric guitars to be best. What's wrong with them?
>>>>
>>>> alex plasko wrote:
>>>>> if you get a Roland VG99 you wont have the issues that the variax has.
>>>>> I use mine with a Brian Moore DC-1/13 and there are no artifacts ,any
>>>>> tuning imaginablealot more flexibility in designing your own models
> etc.
>>>>> you can install a GK-2 pickup on any guitar if you don't have or want
>>>>> one with one built in.
>>>>> there is absolutely NO delay as with a midi guitar setup.
>>>>> there is also a midi out if you would like to drive a synth
>>>>> from the VG99.
>>>>> there are allot of models built in and infinite ways to vary
>>>>> those.I'm not crazy about the electric guitar models but the acoustic
>>>>> models kick ass.
>>>>> way too much for me to write about now.
>>>>> and it can be had for around $1000
>>>>> the martin D-28 model is my favorite so far.
>>>>>
>>>>> "D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote in message news:47989b01@linux...
>>>>>> Once again, thanks to all for the contributions...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All this dialog has given me a wicked idea: instead of shelling out
>>>>>> almost $3K on a Taylor, I could get for roughly the same amount both
>>>>>> a decent Breedlove chosen mainly for its acoustic properties, *and*
>> a
>>>>>> Variax 700 for live playing where a "reasonable" substitute is good
>>>>>> enough.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I read some comments on the Variax that make me nervous - I
>>>>>> cannot find a Variax locally, and may have to (gulp!) mail-order one.
>>>>>> The comment in question comes up frequently in various review
>>>>>> databases, and goes along these lines: apparently, the Variax 700 has
>>>>>> a significant deficiency in the sustain area (enough to be considered
>>>>>> an unacceptable compromise by several reviewers).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So Jamie (and anyone else who "believes" in the Variax): did you find
>>>>>> such a flaw in the Variax's sustain? How usable is it really? And (as
>>>>>> an add-on bonus question) how convincing and artifact-free are the
>
>>>>>> altered tunings? Would you trust it enough to buy one via mail order?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks to all again,
>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:47963ccf$1@linux...
>>>>>>> For live acoustic guitar gigs I currently use a Line 6 Variax 700
>
>>>>>>> Acoustic modeling guitar. This is the one that looks like an
>>>>>>> acoustic guitar, not the PRS-ish looking electric 700 version,
>>>>>>> although I have one of those too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The acoustic 700 VAX sounds quite good through the PA. It doesn't
>
>>>>>>> feed back. Even when using the built-in compressor which is really
>>>>>>> nice to use on fingerpicked songs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Acoustically it's fairly quiet, good for late night practicing
>>>>>>> without waking anyone. But without plugging it in, it's not a
>>>>>>> booming sing-around-the-campfire acoustic guitar.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It has multiple guitar models to choose from including several that
>>>>>>> are bread and butter, plus a few non-guitar models like banjo, sitar
>>>>>>> and mandella.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It also can do alternate tunings on the fly (via DSP so not quite
> as
>>>>>>> great as tuning them yourself, but for live it's fine and -
>>>>>>> important for shows - instant). It can also imitate a 12 string
>>>>>>> (again via DSP).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It looks good, with nice grain on the top. It's has a shallow body.
>>>>>>> It plays well. The upper strings have 24 frets, very rare for an
>>>>>>> acoustic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's more affordable than a high-end acoustic, and therefore less
> of
>>>>>>> a risk at gigs. It sounds as good or better through a PA than any
>
>>>>>>> other acoustic guitar I've heard.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only acoustic guitar thing it doesn't do well is body slaps,
>>>>>>> which is probably why it never feeds back.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The output is mono. I do use it for recording direct sometimes. It
>>>>>>> sits nicely in the track and is good for L/R panned part doubling
>
>>>>>>> using different models.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> D.P. wrote:
>>>>>>>> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic
>>>>>>>> (with electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be
>>>>>>>> converging towards a Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for
>>>>>>>> any potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier,
> I
>>>>>>>> don't think I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a
>>>>>>>> reference, the 714CE would cost around $2800). I don't know many
>
>>>>>>>> luthiers, and the ones I do know have a worldwide reputation (and
>>>>>>>> are therefore not making guitars for $2800 - more like $5k and up).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the
>>>>>>>> Martin OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be
>>>>>>>> incredibly ugly, but quite playable, although the action is typical
>>>>>>>> Martin (i.e. high action, a guitar that you have to dig in hard).
>>>>>>>> Since I play mostly electric, the nice low action of Taylors is
>>>>>>>> appealing to me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or
>>>>>>>> specific, good or bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95717 is a reply to message #95716] |
Thu, 07 February 2008 11:34 |
Ed
Messages: 199
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
lol. That was good! Honestly though... I have heard and played some very
expensive Martins, Gibsons, and what-nots... but give me a group of musicians...
all of them blind fold... setup a open-mic and play the acoustic... I'll
betcha by far most would pick the Ovation for quality, tone and acoustical
sound. But I am sure the fiberglass couldn't handle the space debris...
And just as important... you can find a nice one used under a grand... no,
not the grand piano... that is a grand in one thousand.
Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>
>Hey Ed, Ovations actually CAN travel through interplanetary space. I
>know this because of the Boston album cover where their secret was first
>revealed.
>
>However, once you get to Mars, the acoustics are very strange due to the
>thin atmosphere. So these days I only fly my Ovation as far as the
>corner store.
>
>While my Ovation sounds decent enough, my acoustic Variax sounds better
>and is more aurally flexible. However the Variax doesn't do space
>flight, so the Ovation comes out ahead overall. :^)
>
>Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>Ed wrote:
>> *GULP* OMC Aura, by Martin? $2750.00!!!! You people must be rich or
something.
>> If I were to spend that kind of dough for an acoustic, I'd expect it
to
>> fly me to Mars, land so I can discover, and fly me back! Otherwise, I'll
>> stick with my EJ-160 or Ovation.
>>
>> That said... it is very hard getting a great sound from any acoustic directly
>> into a mixer or preamp. So many different acoustics I tried. So many
different
>> settings and arrangements... it always sounds like a junkie electric to
me...
>> It's nice to have the built in pickup/preamps for quick open mics, or
what-nots...
>> but I don't look for that anymore. I stick with mic'n the acoustic (like
>> we use to do -- old school) and control the sound from the preamp/mixer.
>>
>> Having said that! I recently acquired America's latest DvD... it was
a concert
>> in Australia, I think. WoW! they sound almost as good as back in the
70's!
>> Anyway, I was at the edge of my rocker (yeah, I am that old.. lol.) with
>> the remote. They are STILL playing Ovations! To me, there is nothing
better.
>> Just my 2 cents...
>>
>> ~ Ed
>>
>>
>>
>> "Brendan" <bmcgreev007@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> I had the Taylor 414ce Ltd, which I loved however unless you're
>>> going to fork out another $1000 or more on an amp, the expression system
>>> pick-up won't come into it's own. Through a standard P.A, I found the
ES
>>> very hard to control the bass. When stumming the bass made a huge boom,
>> cutting
>>> over other instruments and when picking the bass notes would ring into
feedback
>>> at the drop of a hat.
>>>
>>> I've been plyying for many years and have had similar problems with cheaper
>>> systems but considering the hype Taylor gives it's ES I wasn't expecting
>>> it. Plus the fact that the ES is more advanced makes it harder to get
that
>>> amplified sound you want.
>>>
>>> Put it through a Genz Benz or the new Fender acoustatronic Head and Cab
>> and
>>> then you're feeling the love!
>>>
>>> Anyhoo, I got the OMC Aura and through the Amp, it's all that
>>> and a bag of potato chips, plus through the standard PA with
>>> the band, it sounds really amazing too!
>>>
>>> The look is an aquired taste I must say as it's an odd shape if
>>> you're used to the Dreadnought or even the G/Auditorum and
>>> there's a lot of bling on it but I love it!
>>>
>>> mmmmmmmmmmmmm
>>>
>>>
>>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>> The earlier VG8 and VG88 were not as good as the Variax at guitar
>>>> modeling when I tried them. Particularly the acoustic and strat models.
>>>> I haven't auditioned the VG99 yet but I've been monitoring a discussion
>>>> group which covers all of the Rolands, including the VG99:
>>>>
>>>> http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/vg-8/messages
>>>>
>>>> From comments on that group, all is not roses with the VG99. But it
>>>> does offer some advantages:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Play a guitar you already like.
>>>> 2) It also does amp modeling, (if you like Roland's models)
>>>>
>>>> Disadvantages:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Another $1000+
>>>> 2) Another box to haul to gigs
>>>> 3) For me, I'd need the additional footswitch unit
>>>> 4) Requires adding a special pickup system
>>>>
>>>> If the VG99 can do long jump alt tunings with absolutely no artifacts,
>>
>>>> that's pretty huge. I'll have to hear it to believe it.
>>>>
>>>> From what I've heard, on the MIDI side the tracking is no better than
>>
>>>> the my GR-33, which isn't that great, but I'm glad they included MIDI
>>>> out capability anyway (something Line 6 ought to consider).
>>>>
>>>> It's always nice to have another choice.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> -Jamie
>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bill L wrote:
>>>>> Alex, I'm interested in something you wrote, "I'm not
>>>>> crazy about the electric guitar models..." Really? I would have expected
>>>>> the electric guitars to be best. What's wrong with them?
>>>>>
>>>>> alex plasko wrote:
>>>>>> if you get a Roland VG99 you wont have the issues that the variax
has.
>>>>>> I use mine with a Brian Moore DC-1/13 and there are no artifacts ,any
>>>>>> tuning imaginablealot more flexibility in designing your own models
>> etc.
>>>>>> you can install a GK-2 pickup on any guitar if you don't have or want
>>>>>> one with one built in.
>>>>>> there is absolutely NO delay as with a midi guitar setup.
>>>>>> there is also a midi out if you would like to drive a synth
>>>>>> from the VG99.
>>>>>> there are allot of models built in and infinite ways to vary
>>>>>> those.I'm not crazy about the electric guitar models but the acoustic
>>>>>> models kick ass.
>>>>>> way too much for me to write about now.
>>>>>> and it can be had for around $1000
>>>>>> the martin D-28 model is my favorite so far.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote in message news:47989b01@linux...
>>>>>>> Once again, thanks to all for the contributions...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All this dialog has given me a wicked idea: instead of shelling out
>>>>>>> almost $3K on a Taylor, I could get for roughly the same amount both
>>>>>>> a decent Breedlove chosen mainly for its acoustic properties, *and*
>>> a
>>>>>>> Variax 700 for live playing where a "reasonable" substitute is good
>>>>>>> enough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But I read some comments on the Variax that make me nervous - I
>>>>>>> cannot find a Variax locally, and may have to (gulp!) mail-order
one.
>>>>>>> The comment in question comes up frequently in various review
>>>>>>> databases, and goes along these lines: apparently, the Variax 700
has
>>>>>>> a significant deficiency in the sustain area (enough to be considered
>>>>>>> an unacceptable compromise by several reviewers).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So Jamie (and anyone else who "believes" in the Variax): did you
find
>>>>>>> such a flaw in the Variax's sustain? How usable is it really? And
(as
>>>>>>> an add-on bonus question) how convincing and artifact-free are the
>>
>>>>>>> altered tunings? Would you trust it enough to buy one via mail order?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks to all again,
>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:47963ccf$1@linux...
>>>>>>>> For live acoustic guitar gigs I currently use a Line 6 Variax 700
>>
>>>>>>>> Acoustic modeling guitar. This is the one that looks like an
>>>>>>>> acoustic guitar, not the PRS-ish looking electric 700 version,
>>>>>>>> although I have one of those too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The acoustic 700 VAX sounds quite good through the PA. It doesn't
>>
>>>>>>>> feed back. Even when using the built-in compressor which is really
>>>>>>>> nice to use on fingerpicked songs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Acoustically it's fairly quiet, good for late night practicing
>>>>>>>> without waking anyone. But without plugging it in, it's not a
>>>>>>>> booming sing-around-the-campfire acoustic guitar.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It has multiple guitar models to choose from including several that
>>>>>>>> are bread and butter, plus a few non-guitar models like banjo, sitar
>>>>>>>> and mandella.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It also can do alternate tunings on the fly (via DSP so not quite
>> as
>>>>>>>> great as tuning them yourself, but for live it's fine and -
>>>>>>>> important for shows - instant). It can also imitate a 12 string
>>>>>>>> (again via DSP).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It looks good, with nice grain on the top. It's has a shallow body.
>>>>>>>> It plays well. The upper strings have 24 frets, very rare for an
>>>>>>>> acoustic.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's more affordable than a high-end acoustic, and therefore less
>> of
>>>>>>>> a risk at gigs. It sounds as good or better through a PA than any
>>
>>>>>>>> other acoustic guitar I've heard.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The only acoustic guitar thing it doesn't do well is body slaps,
>>>>>>>> which is probably why it never feeds back.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The output is mono. I do use it for recording direct sometimes.
It
>>>>>>>> sits nicely in the track and is good for L/R panned part doubling
>>
>>>>>>>> using different models.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> D.P. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic
>>>>>>>>> (with electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be
>>>>>>>>> converging towards a Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for
>>>>>>>>> any potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier,
>> I
>>>>>>>>> don't think I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a
>>>>>>>>> reference, the 714CE would cost around $2800). I don't know many
>>
>>>>>>>>> luthiers, and the ones I do know have a worldwide reputation (and
>>>>>>>>> are therefore not making guitars for $2800 - more like $5k and
up).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the
>>>>>>>>> Martin OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be
>>>>>>>>> incredibly ugly, but quite playable, although the action is typical
>>>>>>>>> Martin (i.e. high action, a guitar that you have to dig in hard).
>>>>>>>>> Since I play mostly electric, the nice low action of Taylors is
>>>>>>>>> appealing to me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or
>>>>>>>>> specific, good or bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95726 is a reply to message #95717] |
Thu, 07 February 2008 14:46 |
chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Ed,
you might be right, but playing a taylor is like 'butter', which might lead
people to spend some extra $$$
Chuck
"Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote:
>
>lol. That was good! Honestly though... I have heard and played some very
>expensive Martins, Gibsons, and what-nots... but give me a group of musicians...
>all of them blind fold... setup a open-mic and play the acoustic... I'll
>betcha by far most would pick the Ovation for quality, tone and acoustical
>sound. But I am sure the fiberglass couldn't handle the space debris...
> And just as important... you can find a nice one used under a grand...
no,
>not the grand piano... that is a grand in one thousand.
>
>Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>
>>Hey Ed, Ovations actually CAN travel through interplanetary space. I
>>know this because of the Boston album cover where their secret was first
>
>>revealed.
>>
>>However, once you get to Mars, the acoustics are very strange due to the
>
>>thin atmosphere. So these days I only fly my Ovation as far as the
>>corner store.
>>
>>While my Ovation sounds decent enough, my acoustic Variax sounds better
>
>>and is more aurally flexible. However the Variax doesn't do space
>>flight, so the Ovation comes out ahead overall. :^)
>>
>>Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>>Ed wrote:
>>> *GULP* OMC Aura, by Martin? $2750.00!!!! You people must be rich or
>something.
>>> If I were to spend that kind of dough for an acoustic, I'd expect it
>to
>>> fly me to Mars, land so I can discover, and fly me back! Otherwise,
I'll
>>> stick with my EJ-160 or Ovation.
>>>
>>> That said... it is very hard getting a great sound from any acoustic
directly
>>> into a mixer or preamp. So many different acoustics I tried. So many
>different
>>> settings and arrangements... it always sounds like a junkie electric
to
>me...
>>> It's nice to have the built in pickup/preamps for quick open mics, or
>what-nots...
>>> but I don't look for that anymore. I stick with mic'n the acoustic (like
>>> we use to do -- old school) and control the sound from the preamp/mixer.
>>>
>>> Having said that! I recently acquired America's latest DvD... it was
>a concert
>>> in Australia, I think. WoW! they sound almost as good as back in the
>70's!
>>> Anyway, I was at the edge of my rocker (yeah, I am that old.. lol.)
with
>>> the remote. They are STILL playing Ovations! To me, there is nothing
>better.
>>> Just my 2 cents...
>>>
>>> ~ Ed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Brendan" <bmcgreev007@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I had the Taylor 414ce Ltd, which I loved however unless you're
>>>> going to fork out another $1000 or more on an amp, the expression system
>>>> pick-up won't come into it's own. Through a standard P.A, I found the
>ES
>>>> very hard to control the bass. When stumming the bass made a huge boom,
>>> cutting
>>>> over other instruments and when picking the bass notes would ring into
>feedback
>>>> at the drop of a hat.
>>>>
>>>> I've been plyying for many years and have had similar problems with
cheaper
>>>> systems but considering the hype Taylor gives it's ES I wasn't expecting
>>>> it. Plus the fact that the ES is more advanced makes it harder to get
>that
>>>> amplified sound you want.
>>>>
>>>> Put it through a Genz Benz or the new Fender acoustatronic Head and
Cab
>>> and
>>>> then you're feeling the love!
>>>>
>>>> Anyhoo, I got the OMC Aura and through the Amp, it's all that
>>>> and a bag of potato chips, plus through the standard PA with
>>>> the band, it sounds really amazing too!
>>>>
>>>> The look is an aquired taste I must say as it's an odd shape if
>>>> you're used to the Dreadnought or even the G/Auditorum and
>>>> there's a lot of bling on it but I love it!
>>>>
>>>> mmmmmmmmmmmmm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>> The earlier VG8 and VG88 were not as good as the Variax at guitar
>>>>> modeling when I tried them. Particularly the acoustic and strat models.
>>>>> I haven't auditioned the VG99 yet but I've been monitoring a discussion
>>>>> group which covers all of the Rolands, including the VG99:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/vg-8/messages
>>>>>
>>>>> From comments on that group, all is not roses with the VG99. But it
>
>>>>> does offer some advantages:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Play a guitar you already like.
>>>>> 2) It also does amp modeling, (if you like Roland's models)
>>>>>
>>>>> Disadvantages:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Another $1000+
>>>>> 2) Another box to haul to gigs
>>>>> 3) For me, I'd need the additional footswitch unit
>>>>> 4) Requires adding a special pickup system
>>>>>
>>>>> If the VG99 can do long jump alt tunings with absolutely no artifacts,
>>>
>>>>> that's pretty huge. I'll have to hear it to believe it.
>>>>>
>>>>> From what I've heard, on the MIDI side the tracking is no better than
>>>
>>>>> the my GR-33, which isn't that great, but I'm glad they included MIDI
>
>>>>> out capability anyway (something Line 6 ought to consider).
>>>>>
>>>>> It's always nice to have another choice.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill L wrote:
>>>>>> Alex, I'm interested in something you wrote, "I'm not
>>>>>> crazy about the electric guitar models..." Really? I would have expected
>>>>>> the electric guitars to be best. What's wrong with them?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> alex plasko wrote:
>>>>>>> if you get a Roland VG99 you wont have the issues that the variax
>has.
>>>>>>> I use mine with a Brian Moore DC-1/13 and there are no artifacts
,any
>>>>>>> tuning imaginablealot more flexibility in designing your own models
>>> etc.
>>>>>>> you can install a GK-2 pickup on any guitar if you don't have or
want
>>>>>>> one with one built in.
>>>>>>> there is absolutely NO delay as with a midi guitar setup.
>>>>>>> there is also a midi out if you would like to drive a synth
>>>>>>> from the VG99.
>>>>>>> there are allot of models built in and infinite ways to vary
>>>>>>> those.I'm not crazy about the electric guitar models but the acoustic
>>>>>>> models kick ass.
>>>>>>> way too much for me to write about now.
>>>>>>> and it can be had for around $1000
>>>>>>> the martin D-28 model is my favorite so far.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote in message news:47989b01@linux...
>>>>>>>> Once again, thanks to all for the contributions...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All this dialog has given me a wicked idea: instead of shelling
out
>>>>>>>> almost $3K on a Taylor, I could get for roughly the same amount
both
>>>>>>>> a decent Breedlove chosen mainly for its acoustic properties, *and*
>>>> a
>>>>>>>> Variax 700 for live playing where a "reasonable" substitute is good
>>>>>>>> enough.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But I read some comments on the Variax that make me nervous - I
>>>>>>>> cannot find a Variax locally, and may have to (gulp!) mail-order
>one.
>>>>>>>> The comment in question comes up frequently in various review
>>>>>>>> databases, and goes along these lines: apparently, the Variax 700
>has
>>>>>>>> a significant deficiency in the sustain area (enough to be considered
>>>>>>>> an unacceptable compromise by several reviewers).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So Jamie (and anyone else who "believes" in the Variax): did you
>find
>>>>>>>> such a flaw in the Variax's sustain? How usable is it really? And
>(as
>>>>>>>> an add-on bonus question) how convincing and artifact-free are the
>>>
>>>>>>>> altered tunings? Would you trust it enough to buy one via mail order?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks to all again,
>>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:47963ccf$1@linux...
>>>>>>>>> For live acoustic guitar gigs I currently use a Line 6 Variax 700
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Acoustic modeling guitar. This is the one that looks like an
>>>>>>>>> acoustic guitar, not the PRS-ish looking electric 700 version,
>>>>>>>>> although I have one of those too.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The acoustic 700 VAX sounds quite good through the PA. It doesn't
>>>
>>>>>>>>> feed back. Even when using the built-in compressor which is really
>>>>>>>>> nice to use on fingerpicked songs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Acoustically it's fairly quiet, good for late night practicing
>>>>>>>>> without waking anyone. But without plugging it in, it's not a
>>>>>>>>> booming sing-around-the-campfire acoustic guitar.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It has multiple guitar models to choose from including several
that
>>>>>>>>> are bread and butter, plus a few non-guitar models like banjo,
sitar
>>>>>>>>> and mandella.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It also can do alternate tunings on the fly (via DSP so not quite
>>> as
>>>>>>>>> great as tuning them yourself, but for live it's fine and -
>>>>>>>>> important for shows - instant). It can also imitate a 12 string
>
>>>>>>>>> (again via DSP).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It looks good, with nice grain on the top. It's has a shallow body.
>>>>>>>>> It plays well. The upper strings have 24 frets, very rare for an
>
>>>>>>>>> acoustic.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's more affordable than a high-end acoustic, and therefore less
>>> of
>>>>>>>>> a risk at gigs. It sounds as good or better through a PA than any
>>>
>>>>>>>>> other acoustic guitar I've heard.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The only acoustic guitar thing it doesn't do well is body slaps,
>
>>>>>>>>> which is probably why it never feeds back.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The output is mono. I do use it for recording direct sometimes.
>It
>>>>>>>>> sits nicely in the track and is good for L/R panned part doubling
>>>
>>>>>>>>> using different models.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> D.P. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic
>>>>>>>>>> (with electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be
>>>>>>>>>> converging towards a Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around
for
>>>>>>>>>> any potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier,
>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> don't think I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as
a
>
>>>>>>>>>> reference, the 714CE would cost around $2800). I don't know many
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> luthiers, and the ones I do know have a worldwide reputation (and
>>>>>>>>>> are therefore not making guitars for $2800 - more like $5k and
>up).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to
the
>>>>>>>>>> Martin OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be
>>>>>>>>>> incredibly ugly, but quite playable, although the action is typical
>>>>>>>>>> Martin (i.e. high action, a guitar that you have to dig in hard).
>>>>>>>>>> Since I play mostly electric, the nice low action of Taylors is
>
>>>>>>>>>> appealing to me.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or
>>>>>>>>>> specific, good or bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>
>>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95740 is a reply to message #95726] |
Thu, 07 February 2008 19:16 |
steve the artguy
Messages: 308
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>
>Ed,
>
>you might be right, but playing a taylor is like 'butter', which might lead
>people to spend some extra $$$
>
>Chuck
I'll second that.
I played a friend's Taylor nylon string and it was the first guitar I've
played that made me want it badly. It truly was like butter. Sweet sounding.
I didn't even plug it in. It was superb.
It has since gone from the scene (as has my friend) and it turns out I need
a nice looking guitar to play a gig (a wedding- the bride to be said,"I don't
want to insult your guitar, but you can find a nicer looking one, can't you..?")
no new guitar, no gig. I tried tracking down the Taylor, hoping to find
it, and at the same time dreading the $1500 or so it would cost.
I checked the local guitar shop and there was a used but still pristine Ibanez
with built in tuner and eq for $150 + tax.
<SOLD!> That's the one I have in my lap at this moment.
Not a Taylor. But it will do the job. I'm getting used to it.
With some piddling around, I can get it to sound ok amped, and it's ok acoustic.
The more I play it, the better I like it.
Made in China...
-steve
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95748 is a reply to message #95001] |
Thu, 07 February 2008 21:42 |
Tony Benson
Messages: 453
Registered: June 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I second the "try a Breedlove" recommendation. I like Taylors, but when I
played a comparable Breedlove, my fingers said ooooh. I couldn't afford the
higher dollar models, but found that one of their "overseas" $1000 models
played and sounded very nice. I'm looking at her now. ;>) I think they make
some of the best looking acoustics also.
I remember playing a Rainsong graphite composite acoustic electric about 8
years ago that I also fell in love with. Might check them out too.
Tony
On 1/22/08 11:56 AM, in article 47962027$1@linux, "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com>
wrote:
>
> A Collings 12 fret to the neck 00-18 and a mic ;-)
>
> I'd try out a Breedlove before settling on the Taylor for sure. Very nice,
> modern guitar, not a Martin/Gibson copy. They make some in the price range
> you're talking about.
>
> TCB
>
> "D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote:
>> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic (with
>
>> electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be converging towards
> a
>> Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>>
>> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for any
>> potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier, I don't think
>
>> I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a reference, the 714CE
>
>> would cost around $2800). I don't know many luthiers, and the ones I do
> know
>> have a worldwide reputation (and are therefore not making guitars for
>> $2800 - more like $5k and up).
>>
>> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the Martin
>
>> OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be incredibly ugly, but
>
>> quite playable, although the action is typical Martin (i.e. high action,
> a
>> guitar that you have to dig in hard). Since I play mostly electric, the
> nice
>> low action of Taylors is appealing to me.
>>
>> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or specific, good
> or
>> bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dan
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Choosing a decent acoustic-electric guitar [message #95753 is a reply to message #95748] |
Fri, 08 February 2008 06:06 |
chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Just remember, my buddy Morgan is THE WORLDS NUMBER ONE Breedlove, Rainsong
AND Taylor dealer :-)
Chuck
Tony Benson <tony@standinghampton.com> wrote:
>I second the "try a Breedlove" recommendation. I like Taylors, but when
I
>played a comparable Breedlove, my fingers said ooooh. I couldn't afford
the
>higher dollar models, but found that one of their "overseas" $1000 models
>played and sounded very nice. I'm looking at her now. ;>) I think they make
>some of the best looking acoustics also.
>
>I remember playing a Rainsong graphite composite acoustic electric about
8
>years ago that I also fell in love with. Might check them out too.
>
>Tony
>
>On 1/22/08 11:56 AM, in article 47962027$1@linux, "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>> A Collings 12 fret to the neck 00-18 and a mic ;-)
>>
>> I'd try out a Breedlove before settling on the Taylor for sure. Very nice,
>> modern guitar, not a Martin/Gibson copy. They make some in the price range
>> you're talking about.
>>
>> TCB
>>
>> "D.P." <ottawarocks@netscape.net> wrote:
>>> I'm usually an electric player, but I need to buy a decent acoustic (with
>>
>>> electronics). I tried a bunch of brands, and seem to be converging towards
>> a
>>> Taylor (something along the 714CE or 814CE).
>>>
>>> Before I commit to an actual purchase, I wanted to ask around for any
>>> potential advice. As much as I'd love to buy from a luthier, I don't
think
>>
>>> I'll get much traction with my planned budget (as a reference, the 714CE
>>
>>> would cost around $2800). I don't know many luthiers, and the ones I
do
>> know
>>> have a worldwide reputation (and are therefore not making guitars for
>>> $2800 - more like $5k and up).
>>>
>>> While reading Taylor reviews, I've seen several references to the Martin
>>
>>> OMC-Aura, so I went to try it out. I found it to be incredibly ugly,
but
>>
>>> quite playable, although the action is typical Martin (i.e. high action,
>> a
>>> guitar that you have to dig in hard). Since I play mostly electric, the
>> nice
>>> low action of Taylors is appealing to me.
>>>
>>> Anyone out there able to make some suggestions? General or specific,
good
>> or
>>> bad, I'm quite open to any ideas.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Dan
>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
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