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Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79748] Fri, 09 February 2007 06:54 Go to next message
brandon[2] is currently offline  brandon[2]   UNITED STATES
Messages: 380
Registered: June 2006
Senior Member
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How would you guys go about getting those intimate sounding vocals with =
lots of bass...low end in them.
Genre like you would hear Sinatra or Dino sing.
Like Christmas carols.
Kind of like a radio announcer voice but singing.
I heard a CD that was Christamas songs and there was this type of song.
I just like the intamacy and low end.
I have not been able to achieve this before.
Obviousely lots of processing, but it doesnt really sound overly =
processed.


--=20
Thanks,

Brandon
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>How would you guys go about getting those =
intimate=20
sounding vocals with lots of bass...low end in them.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Genre like you would hear Sinatra or Dino=20
sing.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Like Christmas carols.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Kind of like a radio&nbsp;announcer voice but=20
singing.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I heard a CD that was Christamas songs and there =
was this=20
type of song.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I just like the intamacy and low =
end.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I have not been able to achieve this =
before.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Obviousely lots of processing, but it doesnt =
really sound=20
overly processed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT face=3DArial>
<DIV><BR>-- <BR>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Brandon </DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79751 is a reply to message #79748] Fri, 09 February 2007 07:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
John [1] is currently offline  John [1]   UNITED STATES
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
Senior Member
Large diaphram mic like C1 studio projects mic and princeton digital
reverb stereo room on Vocal Chamber preset 1 with 15% mix will do very
nicely.

Also, stand back 1 foot from the mic and crank up the gain into the mixer.

Brandon wrote:
> How would you guys go about getting those intimate sounding vocals with
> lots of bass...low end in them.
> Genre like you would hear Sinatra or Dino sing.
> Like Christmas carols.
> Kind of like a radio announcer voice but singing.
> I heard a CD that was Christamas songs and there was this type of song.
> I just like the intamacy and low end.
> I have not been able to achieve this before.
> Obviousely lots of processing, but it doesnt really sound overly processed.
>
>
> --
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon
Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79752 is a reply to message #79751] Fri, 09 February 2007 07:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
brandon[2] is currently offline  brandon[2]   UNITED STATES
Messages: 380
Registered: June 2006
Senior Member
It really sounds like there is more than that.
Like major compression on the lower register.
You really hear the smooth low end of the male vocalist.


--
Thanks,

Brandon



"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:45cc8eb3@linux...
> Large diaphram mic like C1 studio projects mic and princeton digital
> reverb stereo room on Vocal Chamber preset 1 with 15% mix will do very
> nicely.
>
> Also, stand back 1 foot from the mic and crank up the gain into the mixer.
>
> Brandon wrote:
>> How would you guys go about getting those intimate sounding vocals with
>> lots of bass...low end in them.
>> Genre like you would hear Sinatra or Dino sing.
>> Like Christmas carols.
>> Kind of like a radio announcer voice but singing.
>> I heard a CD that was Christamas songs and there was this type of song.
>> I just like the intamacy and low end.
>> I have not been able to achieve this before.
>> Obviousely lots of processing, but it doesnt really sound overly
>> processed.
>> --
>> Thanks,
>> Brandon
Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79753 is a reply to message #79748] Fri, 09 February 2007 08:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gene lennon is currently offline  gene lennon
Messages: 565
Registered: July 2006
Senior Member
LD – U47, Sony C-37A, etc. Others work but these are the best.
Worked close for proximity.
Quality Pre like a Class A Neve.
Original LA-2A!!!!
1/4 turn counter clockwise of R37 (Side-Chain Pre-Emphasis)
Gene


"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>
>
>How would you guys go about getting those intimate sounding vocals with
=
>lots of bass...low end in them.
>Genre like you would hear Sinatra or Dino sing.
>Like Christmas carols.
>Kind of like a radio announcer voice but singing.
>I heard a CD that was Christamas songs and there was this type of song.
>I just like the intamacy and low end.
>I have not been able to achieve this before.
>Obviousely lots of processing, but it doesnt really sound overly =
>processed.
>
>
>--=20
>Thanks,
>
>Brandon
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3020" name=3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>How would you guys go about getting those =
>intimate=20
>sounding vocals with lots of bass...low end in them.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Genre like you would hear Sinatra or Dino=20
>sing.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Like Christmas carols.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Kind of like a radio announcer voice but=20
>singing.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I heard a CD that was Christamas songs and there
=
>was this=20
>type of song.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I just like the intamacy and low =
>end.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I have not been able to achieve this =
>before.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Obviousely lots of processing, but it doesnt =
>really sound=20
>overly processed.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV><FONT face=3DArial>
><DIV><BR>-- <BR>Thanks,</DIV>
><DIV> </DIV>
><DIV>Brandon </DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
>
>
Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79754 is a reply to message #79748] Fri, 09 February 2007 09:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neil[1] is currently offline  neil[1]
Messages: 164
Registered: October 2006
Senior Member
"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>
>
>How would you guys go about getting those intimate sounding vocals with
=
>lots of bass...low end in them.
>Genre like you would hear Sinatra or Dino sing.
>Like Christmas carols.
>Kind of like a radio announcer voice but singing.

That's a U-47, baby!

Neil
Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79755 is a reply to message #79748] Fri, 09 February 2007 08:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Graham Duncan is currently offline  Graham Duncan   UNITED STATES
Messages: 147
Registered: December 2008
Senior Member
The crooner sound is all about the great proximity effect from a
figure-8 ribbon mic.

Graham

Brandon wrote:
> How would you guys go about getting those intimate sounding vocals with
> lots of bass...low end in them.
> Genre like you would hear Sinatra or Dino sing.
> Like Christmas carols.
> Kind of like a radio announcer voice but singing.
> I heard a CD that was Christamas songs and there was this type of song.
> I just like the intamacy and low end.
> I have not been able to achieve this before.
> Obviousely lots of processing, but it doesnt really sound overly processed.
>
>
> --
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon
Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79756 is a reply to message #79754] Fri, 09 February 2007 08:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
brandon[2] is currently offline  brandon[2]   UNITED STATES
Messages: 380
Registered: June 2006
Senior Member
K... so my AKG 414 with the Anteres mic modeler set to U-47 will do the
trick???
:-)

--
Thanks,

Brandon




"Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45cc9a8a$1@linux...
>
> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>How would you guys go about getting those intimate sounding vocals with
> =
>>lots of bass...low end in them.
>>Genre like you would hear Sinatra or Dino sing.
>>Like Christmas carols.
>>Kind of like a radio announcer voice but singing.
>
> That's a U-47, baby!
>
> Neil
>
>
Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79758 is a reply to message #79756] Fri, 09 February 2007 09:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nil is currently offline  Nil
Messages: 245
Registered: March 2007
Senior Member
"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>K... so my AKG 414 with the Anteres mic modeler set to U-47 will do the

>trick???

As long as that mic model includes rolling off some of the 414's
high end, it might.

Actually, I shouldn'tve been so glib - you can get that sound
without a u-47, of course, just make sure the mic gets worked in
close, like Gene said, use a fairly neutral-sounding LDC (like
NOT a C-1), set on something other than omni, and the cleanest
preamp you have (since you'll be in real close - to capture the
detail)... make sure you're paying attention for where
the optimal distance for the singer should be...you get in TOO
close, and you get too many mouth noises; too far & you're not
taking advantage of the promximity effect - I disagree with Gene
on the compression, though - you don't always need it... some
mics just kinda sound that way when worked up-close & personal
like that. Dunno what you've got for mics, but if you've got a
handful of LDCs, you should be able to find one that works.

Neil
Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79760 is a reply to message #79753] Fri, 09 February 2007 08:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deej [4] is currently offline  Deej [4]   BRAZIL
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
Senior Member
I thought that part of this had to do with treating the mic capsule with a
layer of tar by while smoking a cigarette during instrumental passages and
blowing the smoke right into the mic grille to*thicken* the sound.

;o)


"Gene Lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:45cc962c$1@linux...
>
> LD - U47, Sony C-37A, etc. Others work but these are the best.
> Worked close for proximity.
> Quality Pre like a Class A Neve.
> Original LA-2A!!!!
> 1/4 turn counter clockwise of R37 (Side-Chain Pre-Emphasis)
> Gene
>
>
> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>How would you guys go about getting those intimate sounding vocals with
> =
>>lots of bass...low end in them.
>>Genre like you would hear Sinatra or Dino sing.
>>Like Christmas carols.
>>Kind of like a radio announcer voice but singing.
>>I heard a CD that was Christamas songs and there was this type of song.
>>I just like the intamacy and low end.
>>I have not been able to achieve this before.
>>Obviousely lots of processing, but it doesnt really sound overly =
>>processed.
>>
>>
>>--=20
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Brandon
>>
>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>><HTML><HEAD>
>><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3020" name=3DGENERATOR>
>><STYLE></STYLE>
>></HEAD>
>><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>How would you guys go about getting those =
>>intimate=20
>>sounding vocals with lots of bass...low end in them.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Genre like you would hear Sinatra or Dino=20
>>sing.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Like Christmas carols.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Kind of like a radio announcer voice but=20
>>singing.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I heard a CD that was Christamas songs and there
> =
>>was this=20
>>type of song.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I just like the intamacy and low =
>>end.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I have not been able to achieve this =
>>before.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Obviousely lots of processing, but it doesnt =
>>really sound=20
>>overly processed.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV><FONT face=3DArial>
>><DIV><BR>-- <BR>Thanks,</DIV>
>><DIV> </DIV>
>><DIV>Brandon </DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
>>
>>
>
Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79761 is a reply to message #79756] Fri, 09 February 2007 08:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deej [4] is currently offline  Deej [4]   BRAZIL
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
Senior Member
Brandon,

You should demo an SE Gemini or Z5600. They both have got a bit of that
intimate (maybe U47'sih) mojo. I heard some comparisons a while back with
these mics and a U47 and they were pretty similar on dialog recordings. The
comparison was done by Roger Nichols (FWIW). When I'm looking for that
kinda' sound, I go to my Gemini here.

Mike Castoro at WunderAudio in Austin http://www.wunderaudio.com/ is
making U47 clones and has some *real* U47's for sale as well.
http://www.mistyhillaudio.com/

You might give him a call and talk to him about these. He's an experienced
source of information on vintage mics and doesn't live too far from you.

Deej



"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:45cc9bf0$1@linux...
> K... so my AKG 414 with the Anteres mic modeler set to U-47 will do the
> trick???
> :-)
>
> --
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon
>
>
>
>
> "Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45cc9a8a$1@linux...
>>
>> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>How would you guys go about getting those intimate sounding vocals with
>> =
>>>lots of bass...low end in them.
>>>Genre like you would hear Sinatra or Dino sing.
>>>Like Christmas carols.
>>>Kind of like a radio announcer voice but singing.
>>
>> That's a U-47, baby!
>>
>> Neil
>>
>>
>
>
Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79763 is a reply to message #79758] Fri, 09 February 2007 10:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gene lennon is currently offline  gene lennon
Messages: 565
Registered: July 2006
Senior Member
I’m not saying you cant get a similar sound using other methods, I saying
that what I described was, and is the exact method used on may of these recordings.
Graham is correct to point out that in the very early recordings, Sinatra
liked the RCA ribbons and many people continue to use ribbons for this today,
but the LDC is still more common.
The R37 trick has been a secret weapon for may producers but you also need
to get the rest of the LA-2A setting just right.

Gene

P.S. I have used a 414 successfully to get this sound, specifically my C
414 B-ULS, but the U-47 is a completely different animal.


"Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>K... so my AKG 414 with the Anteres mic modeler set to U-47 will do the
>
>>trick???
>
>As long as that mic model includes rolling off some of the 414's
>high end, it might.
>
>Actually, I shouldn'tve been so glib - you can get that sound
>without a u-47, of course, just make sure the mic gets worked in
>close, like Gene said, use a fairly neutral-sounding LDC (like
>NOT a C-1), set on something other than omni, and the cleanest
>preamp you have (since you'll be in real close - to capture the
>detail)... make sure you're paying attention for where
>the optimal distance for the singer should be...you get in TOO
>close, and you get too many mouth noises; too far & you're not
>taking advantage of the promximity effect - I disagree with Gene
>on the compression, though - you don't always need it... some
>mics just kinda sound that way when worked up-close & personal
>like that. Dunno what you've got for mics, but if you've got a
>handful of LDCs, you should be able to find one that works.
>
>Neil
Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79764 is a reply to message #79760] Fri, 09 February 2007 10:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gene lennon is currently offline  gene lennon
Messages: 565
Registered: July 2006
Senior Member
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>I thought that part of this had to do with treating the mic capsule with
a
>layer of tar by while smoking a cigarette during instrumental passages and

>blowing the smoke right into the mic grille to*thicken* the sound.
>
>;o)
>
That’s the “Tom Waits Variation”.
G
Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79765 is a reply to message #79763] Fri, 09 February 2007 09:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
brandon[2] is currently offline  brandon[2]   UNITED STATES
Messages: 380
Registered: June 2006
Senior Member
Here is a link to the song I was refereing to:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B00005LNAS001005/r ef=mu_sam_wma_001_005/104-4024696-4499911


--
Thanks,

Brandon




"Gene Lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:45ccaa7a$1@linux...
>
> I'm not saying you cant get a similar sound using other methods, I saying
> that what I described was, and is the exact method used on may of these
> recordings.
> Graham is correct to point out that in the very early recordings, Sinatra
> liked the RCA ribbons and many people continue to use ribbons for this
> today,
> but the LDC is still more common.
> The R37 trick has been a secret weapon for may producers but you also need
> to get the rest of the LA-2A setting just right.
>
> Gene
>
> P.S. I have used a 414 successfully to get this sound, specifically my C
> 414 B-ULS, but the U-47 is a completely different animal.
>
>
> "Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>
>>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>>K... so my AKG 414 with the Anteres mic modeler set to U-47 will do the
>>
>>>trick???
>>
>>As long as that mic model includes rolling off some of the 414's
>>high end, it might.
>>
>>Actually, I shouldn'tve been so glib - you can get that sound
>>without a u-47, of course, just make sure the mic gets worked in
>>close, like Gene said, use a fairly neutral-sounding LDC (like
>>NOT a C-1), set on something other than omni, and the cleanest
>>preamp you have (since you'll be in real close - to capture the
>>detail)... make sure you're paying attention for where
>>the optimal distance for the singer should be...you get in TOO
>>close, and you get too many mouth noises; too far & you're not
>>taking advantage of the promximity effect - I disagree with Gene
>>on the compression, though - you don't always need it... some
>>mics just kinda sound that way when worked up-close & personal
>>like that. Dunno what you've got for mics, but if you've got a
>>handful of LDCs, you should be able to find one that works.
>>
>>Neil
>
Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79766 is a reply to message #79765] Fri, 09 February 2007 09:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
brandon[2] is currently offline  brandon[2]   UNITED STATES
Messages: 380
Registered: June 2006
Senior Member
http://www.amazon.com/Austin-Rhythm-Christmas-Various-Artist s/dp/B00005LNAS/sr=1-12/qid=1171041756/ref=sr_1_12/104-40246 96-4499911?ie=UTF8&s=music

That is Paul Ray.


--
Thanks,

Brandon



"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:45ccaea4$1@linux...
> Here is a link to the song I was refereing to:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B00005LNAS001005/r ef=mu_sam_wma_001_005/104-4024696-4499911
>
>
> --
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon
>
>
>
>
> "Gene Lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote in message
> news:45ccaa7a$1@linux...
>>
>> I'm not saying you cant get a similar sound using other methods, I saying
>> that what I described was, and is the exact method used on may of these
>> recordings.
>> Graham is correct to point out that in the very early recordings, Sinatra
>> liked the RCA ribbons and many people continue to use ribbons for this
>> today,
>> but the LDC is still more common.
>> The R37 trick has been a secret weapon for may producers but you also
>> need
>> to get the rest of the LA-2A setting just right.
>>
>> Gene
>>
>> P.S. I have used a 414 successfully to get this sound, specifically my C
>> 414 B-ULS, but the U-47 is a completely different animal.
>>
>>
>> "Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>>>K... so my AKG 414 with the Anteres mic modeler set to U-47 will do the
>>>
>>>>trick???
>>>
>>>As long as that mic model includes rolling off some of the 414's
>>>high end, it might.
>>>
>>>Actually, I shouldn'tve been so glib - you can get that sound
>>>without a u-47, of course, just make sure the mic gets worked in
>>>close, like Gene said, use a fairly neutral-sounding LDC (like
>>>NOT a C-1), set on something other than omni, and the cleanest
>>>preamp you have (since you'll be in real close - to capture the
>>>detail)... make sure you're paying attention for where
>>>the optimal distance for the singer should be...you get in TOO
>>>close, and you get too many mouth noises; too far & you're not
>>>taking advantage of the promximity effect - I disagree with Gene
>>>on the compression, though - you don't always need it... some
>>>mics just kinda sound that way when worked up-close & personal
>>>like that. Dunno what you've got for mics, but if you've got a
>>>handful of LDCs, you should be able to find one that works.
>>>
>>>Neil
>>
>
>
Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79768 is a reply to message #79766] Fri, 09 February 2007 09:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deej [4] is currently offline  Deej [4]   BRAZIL
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
Senior Member
Hmmmm......I might have been in the studio for that recording. I was present
at a couple of these old Christmas sessions back in the mid-late '90's at
Bee Creek Studios and Paul Ray was there. IIRC, the mic was a Neumann TLM
193 through either the preamp on a modified TAC Matchless console or the
preamp would have been the old Demeter VTMP-2 preamp that was modded by
Larry Seyer that I bought out of this studio and still have here in my rack.
In either case, the vocal was processed by a Tube Tech CL1 . If it's the
same session, this would have been recorded to either an MCI 1" 8 track or
an Otari MTR90 2" 24 track with Dolby SR and mixed to the MCI JH-110 that I
also bought out of that studio and eventually sold to Andy Salamone
(Cactusfire) when his studio was in Taos. I think Parisite Craig Mitchell
now owns that deck.

The long and winding gear road...............

;o)

"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:45ccaeef@linux...
> http://www.amazon.com/Austin-Rhythm-Christmas-Various-Artist s/dp/B00005LNAS/sr=1-12/qid=1171041756/ref=sr_1_12/104-40246 96-4499911?ie=UTF8&s=music
>
> That is Paul Ray.
>
>
> --
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon
>
>
>
> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:45ccaea4$1@linux...
>> Here is a link to the song I was refereing to:
>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B00005LNAS001005/r ef=mu_sam_wma_001_005/104-4024696-4499911
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Gene Lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote in message
>> news:45ccaa7a$1@linux...
>>>
>>> I'm not saying you cant get a similar sound using other methods, I
>>> saying
>>> that what I described was, and is the exact method used on may of these
>>> recordings.
>>> Graham is correct to point out that in the very early recordings,
>>> Sinatra
>>> liked the RCA ribbons and many people continue to use ribbons for this
>>> today,
>>> but the LDC is still more common.
>>> The R37 trick has been a secret weapon for may producers but you also
>>> need
>>> to get the rest of the LA-2A setting just right.
>>>
>>> Gene
>>>
>>> P.S. I have used a 414 successfully to get this sound, specifically my C
>>> 414 B-ULS, but the U-47 is a completely different animal.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>>>>K... so my AKG 414 with the Anteres mic modeler set to U-47 will do the
>>>>
>>>>>trick???
>>>>
>>>>As long as that mic model includes rolling off some of the 414's
>>>>high end, it might.
>>>>
>>>>Actually, I shouldn'tve been so glib - you can get that sound
>>>>without a u-47, of course, just make sure the mic gets worked in
>>>>close, like Gene said, use a fairly neutral-sounding LDC (like
>>>>NOT a C-1), set on something other than omni, and the cleanest
>>>>preamp you have (since you'll be in real close - to capture the
>>>>detail)... make sure you're paying attention for where
>>>>the optimal distance for the singer should be...you get in TOO
>>>>close, and you get too many mouth noises; too far & you're not
>>>>taking advantage of the promximity effect - I disagree with Gene
>>>>on the compression, though - you don't always need it... some
>>>>mics just kinda sound that way when worked up-close & personal
>>>>like that. Dunno what you've got for mics, but if you've got a
>>>>handful of LDCs, you should be able to find one that works.
>>>>
>>>>Neil
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79769 is a reply to message #79766] Fri, 09 February 2007 11:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neil is currently offline  Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
Senior Member
Both those Paul Ray cuts have a lot more high end on the vox
than I would have anticipated you were looking for, based on the
sound you were describing earlier (Bing, Sinatra, etc); and
really not as much proximity effect, either.

You should be able to duplicate that, no problem. There's
nothing overly unique about that sound - just a good, crooner-
type vocal line recorded well.

Neil


"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
> http://www.amazon.com/Austin-Rhythm-Christmas-Various-Artist s/dp/B00005LNAS/sr=1-12/qid=1171041756/ref=sr_1_12/104-40246 96-4499911?ie=UTF8&s=music
>
>That is Paul Ray.
>
>
>--
>Thanks,
>
>Brandon
>
>
>
>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:45ccaea4$1@linux...
>> Here is a link to the song I was refereing to:
>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B00005LNAS001005/r ef=mu_sam_wma_001_005/104-4024696-4499911
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Gene Lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote in message
>> news:45ccaa7a$1@linux...
>>>
>>> I'm not saying you cant get a similar sound using other methods, I saying
>>> that what I described was, and is the exact method used on may of these

>>> recordings.
>>> Graham is correct to point out that in the very early recordings, Sinatra
>>> liked the RCA ribbons and many people continue to use ribbons for this

>>> today,
>>> but the LDC is still more common.
>>> The R37 trick has been a secret weapon for may producers but you also

>>> need
>>> to get the rest of the LA-2A setting just right.
>>>
>>> Gene
>>>
>>> P.S. I have used a 414 successfully to get this sound, specifically my
C
>>> 414 B-ULS, but the U-47 is a completely different animal.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>>>>K... so my AKG 414 with the Anteres mic modeler set to U-47 will do
the
>>>>
>>>>>trick???
>>>>
>>>>As long as that mic model includes rolling off some of the 414's
>>>>high end, it might.
>>>>
>>>>Actually, I shouldn'tve been so glib - you can get that sound
>>>>without a u-47, of course, just make sure the mic gets worked in
>>>>close, like Gene said, use a fairly neutral-sounding LDC (like
>>>>NOT a C-1), set on something other than omni, and the cleanest
>>>>preamp you have (since you'll be in real close - to capture the
>>>>detail)... make sure you're paying attention for where
>>>>the optimal distance for the singer should be...you get in TOO
>>>>close, and you get too many mouth noises; too far & you're not
>>>>taking advantage of the promximity effect - I disagree with Gene
>>>>on the compression, though - you don't always need it... some
>>>>mics just kinda sound that way when worked up-close & personal
>>>>like that. Dunno what you've got for mics, but if you've got a
>>>>handful of LDCs, you should be able to find one that works.
>>>>
>>>>Neil
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79770 is a reply to message #79769] Fri, 09 February 2007 10:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
brandon[2] is currently offline  brandon[2]   UNITED STATES
Messages: 380
Registered: June 2006
Senior Member
When I listen to it from the CD thru my AKG cans I can definately hear a lot
of low end on his vox.


--
Thanks,

Brandon




"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45ccb72c$1@linux...
>
> Both those Paul Ray cuts have a lot more high end on the vox
> than I would have anticipated you were looking for, based on the
> sound you were describing earlier (Bing, Sinatra, etc); and
> really not as much proximity effect, either.
>
> You should be able to duplicate that, no problem. There's
> nothing overly unique about that sound - just a good, crooner-
> type vocal line recorded well.
>
> Neil
>
>
> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>> http://www.amazon.com/Austin-Rhythm-Christmas-Various-Artist s/dp/B00005LNAS/sr=1-12/qid=1171041756/ref=sr_1_12/104-40246 96-4499911?ie=UTF8&s=music
>>
>>That is Paul Ray.
>>
>>
>>--
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Brandon
>>
>>
>>
>>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:45ccaea4$1@linux...
>>> Here is a link to the song I was refereing to:
>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B00005LNAS001005/r ef=mu_sam_wma_001_005/104-4024696-4499911
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Gene Lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote in message
>>> news:45ccaa7a$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> I'm not saying you cant get a similar sound using other methods, I
>>>> saying
>>>> that what I described was, and is the exact method used on may of these
>
>>>> recordings.
>>>> Graham is correct to point out that in the very early recordings,
>>>> Sinatra
>>>> liked the RCA ribbons and many people continue to use ribbons for this
>
>>>> today,
>>>> but the LDC is still more common.
>>>> The R37 trick has been a secret weapon for may producers but you also
>
>>>> need
>>>> to get the rest of the LA-2A setting just right.
>>>>
>>>> Gene
>>>>
>>>> P.S. I have used a 414 successfully to get this sound, specifically my
> C
>>>> 414 B-ULS, but the U-47 is a completely different animal.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>>>>>K... so my AKG 414 with the Anteres mic modeler set to U-47 will do
> the
>>>>>
>>>>>>trick???
>>>>>
>>>>>As long as that mic model includes rolling off some of the 414's
>>>>>high end, it might.
>>>>>
>>>>>Actually, I shouldn'tve been so glib - you can get that sound
>>>>>without a u-47, of course, just make sure the mic gets worked in
>>>>>close, like Gene said, use a fairly neutral-sounding LDC (like
>>>>>NOT a C-1), set on something other than omni, and the cleanest
>>>>>preamp you have (since you'll be in real close - to capture the
>>>>>detail)... make sure you're paying attention for where
>>>>>the optimal distance for the singer should be...you get in TOO
>>>>>close, and you get too many mouth noises; too far & you're not
>>>>>taking advantage of the promximity effect - I disagree with Gene
>>>>>on the compression, though - you don't always need it... some
>>>>>mics just kinda sound that way when worked up-close & personal
>>>>>like that. Dunno what you've got for mics, but if you've got a
>>>>>handful of LDCs, you should be able to find one that works.
>>>>>
>>>>>Neil
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79772 is a reply to message #79755] Fri, 09 February 2007 11:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chuck duffy is currently offline  chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
Senior Member
I believe that you hit the nail on the head - it's mining the proximity effect.

Chuck
Graham Duncan <graham@grahamduncan.com> wrote:
>The crooner sound is all about the great proximity effect from a
>figure-8 ribbon mic.
>
>Graham
>
>Brandon wrote:
>> How would you guys go about getting those intimate sounding vocals with

>> lots of bass...low end in them.
>> Genre like you would hear Sinatra or Dino sing.
>> Like Christmas carols.
>> Kind of like a radio announcer voice but singing.
>> I heard a CD that was Christamas songs and there was this type of song.
>> I just like the intamacy and low end.
>> I have not been able to achieve this before.
>> Obviousely lots of processing, but it doesnt really sound overly processed.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon
Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79778 is a reply to message #79748] Fri, 09 February 2007 11:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aaron Allen is currently offline  Aaron Allen   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
Senior Member
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C74C4B.54AEF9C0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

RE20, proximity effect and a good compressor would be the place I'd =
start.=20
AA
"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:45cc8ba5$1@linux...
How would you guys go about getting those intimate sounding vocals =
with lots of bass...low end in them.
Genre like you would hear Sinatra or Dino sing.
Like Christmas carols.
Kind of like a radio announcer voice but singing.
I heard a CD that was Christamas songs and there was this type of =
song.
I just like the intamacy and low end.
I have not been able to achieve this before.
Obviousely lots of processing, but it doesnt really sound overly =
processed.


--=20
Thanks,

Brandon
------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C74C4B.54AEF9C0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.5730.11" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>RE20, proximity effect and a good =
compressor would=20
be the place I'd start. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>AA</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Brandon" &lt;<A href=3D"mailto:a@a.com">a@a.com</A>&gt; wrote in =
message=20
<A href=3D"news:45cc8ba5$1@linux">news:45cc8ba5$1@linux</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>How would you guys go about getting those =
intimate=20
sounding vocals with lots of bass...low end in them.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Genre like you would hear Sinatra or Dino=20
sing.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Like Christmas carols.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Kind of like a radio&nbsp;announcer voice but=20
singing.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I heard a CD that was Christamas songs and =
there was=20
this type of song.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I just like the intamacy and low =
end.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I have not been able to achieve this=20
before.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Obviousely lots of processing, but it doesnt =
really=20
sound overly processed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT face=3DArial>
<DIV><BR>-- <BR>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Brandon </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C74C4B.54AEF9C0--
Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79781 is a reply to message #79753] Fri, 09 February 2007 11:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
xpam_mark is currently offline  xpam_mark   UNITED STATES
Messages: 126
Registered: March 2007
Senior Member
What's an R37? Something I should own?

W. Mark Wilson

"Gene Lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:45cc962c$1@linux...
>
> LD - U47, Sony C-37A, etc. Others work but these are the best.
> Worked close for proximity.
> Quality Pre like a Class A Neve.
> Original LA-2A!!!!
> 1/4 turn counter clockwise of R37 (Side-Chain Pre-Emphasis)
> Gene
>
>
> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>How would you guys go about getting those intimate sounding vocals with
> =
>>lots of bass...low end in them.
>>Genre like you would hear Sinatra or Dino sing.
>>Like Christmas carols.
>>Kind of like a radio announcer voice but singing.
>>I heard a CD that was Christamas songs and there was this type of song.
>>I just like the intamacy and low end.
>>I have not been able to achieve this before.
>>Obviousely lots of processing, but it doesnt really sound overly =
>>processed.
>>
>>
>>--=20
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Brandon
>>
>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>><HTML><HEAD>
>><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3020" name=3DGENERATOR>
>><STYLE></STYLE>
>></HEAD>
>><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>How would you guys go about getting those =
>>intimate=20
>>sounding vocals with lots of bass...low end in them.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Genre like you would hear Sinatra or Dino=20
>>sing.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Like Christmas carols.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Kind of like a radio announcer voice but=20
>>singing.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I heard a CD that was Christamas songs and there
> =
>>was this=20
>>type of song.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I just like the intamacy and low =
>>end.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I have not been able to achieve this =
>>before.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Obviousely lots of processing, but it doesnt =
>>really sound=20
>>overly processed.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV><FONT face=3DArial>
>><DIV><BR>-- <BR>Thanks,</DIV>
>><DIV> </DIV>
>><DIV>Brandon </DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
>>
>>
>
Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79784 is a reply to message #79758] Fri, 09 February 2007 11:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Miguel Vigil [1] is currently offline  Miguel Vigil [1]   NORWAY
Messages: 258
Registered: July 2005
Senior Member
It's the proximity effect. No problem to get that out of a C1. The only
processing I had to do was rolling off some low end. (It was very close :-)

Bjorn R


"Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45cc9dd2$1@linux...
>
> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
> >K... so my AKG 414 with the Anteres mic modeler set to U-47 will do the
>
> >trick???
>
> As long as that mic model includes rolling off some of the 414's
> high end, it might.
>
> Actually, I shouldn'tve been so glib - you can get that sound
> without a u-47, of course, just make sure the mic gets worked in
> close, like Gene said, use a fairly neutral-sounding LDC (like
> NOT a C-1), set on something other than omni, and the cleanest
> preamp you have (since you'll be in real close - to capture the
> detail)... make sure you're paying attention for where
> the optimal distance for the singer should be...you get in TOO
> close, and you get too many mouth noises; too far & you're not
> taking advantage of the promximity effect - I disagree with Gene
> on the compression, though - you don't always need it... some
> mics just kinda sound that way when worked up-close & personal
> like that. Dunno what you've got for mics, but if you've got a
> handful of LDCs, you should be able to find one that works.
>
> Neil
Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79785 is a reply to message #79784] Fri, 09 February 2007 11:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
John [1] is currently offline  John [1]   UNITED STATES
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
Senior Member
I'll have to try the figure 8 on my C3. Great tips here !

BR wrote:
> It's the proximity effect. No problem to get that out of a C1. The only
> processing I had to do was rolling off some low end. (It was very close :-)
>
> Bjorn R
>
>
> "Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45cc9dd2$1@linux...
>> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>> K... so my AKG 414 with the Anteres mic modeler set to U-47 will do the
>>> trick???
>> As long as that mic model includes rolling off some of the 414's
>> high end, it might.
>>
>> Actually, I shouldn'tve been so glib - you can get that sound
>> without a u-47, of course, just make sure the mic gets worked in
>> close, like Gene said, use a fairly neutral-sounding LDC (like
>> NOT a C-1), set on something other than omni, and the cleanest
>> preamp you have (since you'll be in real close - to capture the
>> detail)... make sure you're paying attention for where
>> the optimal distance for the singer should be...you get in TOO
>> close, and you get too many mouth noises; too far & you're not
>> taking advantage of the promximity effect - I disagree with Gene
>> on the compression, though - you don't always need it... some
>> mics just kinda sound that way when worked up-close & personal
>> like that. Dunno what you've got for mics, but if you've got a
>> handful of LDCs, you should be able to find one that works.
>>
>> Neil
>
>
Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79804 is a reply to message #79781] Fri, 09 February 2007 16:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gene lennon is currently offline  gene lennon
Messages: 565
Registered: July 2006
Senior Member
"W. Mark Wilson" <xpam_mark@avidrecording> wrote:
>What's an R37? Something I should own?

LOL
R37 is a trim pot on the backside of LA-2As. The LA-2A was originally designed
to be used for Radio DJ work.
Every radio station uses a transmission audio processor in front of its transmitter.
The processor's most important function is to control the peak modulation
of the transmitter up to the maximum legal amounts allowed by the FCC. However,
very few stations use a simple peak limiter for this function. Instead, they
use more complex audio chains that almost always include pre-emphasis.
In the USA, FM radio is usually pre-emphasized at 50 microseconds. Pre-emphasis
is a 6dB/octave high frequency boost that's 3dB up at 2.1kHz (75µs) or 3.2kHz
(50µs). With 75µs pre-emphasis, 15kHz is up 17dB!

This much high frequency push frequently made DJ voices (that were already
limited to extreme levels) sound very bad on FM stations. The LA-2A includes
a trim pot (R37) whose job it is to increase the compression ratio on the
high frequencies (approximately a reverse curve to the radios stations pre-emphasis
curve.)

Normally for music work the trimmer is turned all the way clockwise (flat).
But when you back it off slightly you get a unique type of frequency dependent
compression that is easily recognized when heard but a little hard to describe.
It softens the high end but it sounds quite different than standard eq reduction.

Now that LA-2As are both precious and old, many studios wont touch the trimmers.

So …you should own an R37, because it comes attached to one of the worlds
best compressor/limiters.

Gene
Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79861 is a reply to message #79748] Sat, 10 February 2007 17:15 Go to previous message
Martin Harrington is currently offline  Martin Harrington   AUSTRALIA
Messages: 560
Registered: September 2005
Senior Member
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Easy,=20
Get a singer that sounds like Sinatra or Dino.
It's all in the voice modulation, not the recording.
--=20
Martin Harrington
www.lendanear-sound.com

"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:45cc8ba5$1@linux...
How would you guys go about getting those intimate sounding vocals =
with lots of bass...low end in them.
Genre like you would hear Sinatra or Dino sing.
Like Christmas carols.
Kind of like a radio announcer voice but singing.
I heard a CD that was Christamas songs and there was this type of =
song.
I just like the intamacy and low end.
I have not been able to achieve this before.
Obviousely lots of processing, but it doesnt really sound overly =
processed.


--=20
Thanks,

Brandon
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Easy, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Get a singer that sounds like Sinatra or =
Dino.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>It's all in the voice modulation, not the=20
recording.</FONT><BR>-- <BR>Martin Harrington<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.lendanear-sound.com">www.lendanear-sound.com</A><BR></=
DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Brandon" &lt;<A href=3D"mailto:a@a.com">a@a.com</A>&gt; wrote in =
message=20
<A href=3D"news:45cc8ba5$1@linux">news:45cc8ba5$1@linux</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>How would you guys go about getting those =
intimate=20
sounding vocals with lots of bass...low end in them.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Genre like you would hear Sinatra or Dino=20
sing.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Like Christmas carols.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Kind of like a radio&nbsp;announcer voice but=20
singing.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I heard a CD that was Christamas songs and =
there was=20
this type of song.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I just like the intamacy and low =
end.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I have not been able to achieve this=20
before.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Obviousely lots of processing, but it doesnt =
really=20
sound overly processed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT face=3DArial>
<DIV><BR>-- <BR>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Brandon </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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