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PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107158] Wed, 18 July 2012 11:44 Go to next message
mikeaudet   CANADA
Messages: 477
Registered: February 2009
Location: Canada
Senior Member
Hi All,

I just got the ASIO driver to pass 24 bit audio under Windows 7 64 using the 32 bit version of Reaper at a 200 sample buffer size! At 100 samples, I got some clicks and pops, but that was using a debug version of the driver. 100 or less may be possible on fast machines.

I've also been working on having the ASIO driver support external clock sources. I've made the required changes, but Reaper doesn't support a needed callback for us to use an external clock at 44.1k. That's no criticism of the folks at Cockos. It's a callback that no other hardware uses.

I'm going to turn my attention to recording 24 bit audio, and then get started on the control panel.

Things are going very, very well!

As for getting the PARIS application working under Windows 7 64, I've been reading a huge book on Intel Assembler so that I can decompile and fix the Ensoniq effects code. It crashes when it tries to open the VST plugin directory. There must have been some change in the API that it uses to scan for files. This happens even if no VST directory is specified in the paris.cfg.

I hope this update gives a lift to those who are patiently waiting for me to get this done.

All the best!

Mike

Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107159 is a reply to message #107158] Wed, 18 July 2012 12:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Will The Weirdo is currently offline  Will The Weirdo   
Messages: 190
Registered: December 2009
Location: On The Lake
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As always Mike, your work is always appreciated.
Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107160 is a reply to message #107159] Wed, 18 July 2012 12:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mikeaudet   CANADA
Messages: 477
Registered: February 2009
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Thanks, Will!

I just got 24 bit recording working. This is too cool!
Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107161 is a reply to message #107160] Thu, 19 July 2012 10:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne is currently offline  Wayne   UNITED STATES
Messages: 206
Registered: July 2008
Location: Las Vegas
Senior Member
Scherzo64 . . . what a cool name!
Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107165 is a reply to message #107161] Fri, 20 July 2012 16:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesandbox1 is currently offline  thesandbox1   GERMANY
Messages: 167
Registered: July 2009
Location: Carmel, IN
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so will this work on windows 8? Wink

HA!....totally kidding and can't wait to give this a go!
Thanks again Mike!!!


Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107167 is a reply to message #107165] Sat, 21 July 2012 12:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
casshern is currently offline  casshern   UNITED STATES
Messages: 17
Registered: March 2012
Location: ohio
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We might be able to assume it COULD. But it's windows. You can't assume anything. Neutral
Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107168 is a reply to message #107167] Mon, 23 July 2012 17:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mikeaudet   CANADA
Messages: 477
Registered: February 2009
Location: Canada
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It should run under Windows 8, but I have a feeling that Windows 8 is about to be the new VISTA. No one will care about it. I could be talked into installing it if there is an issue with the driver, but otherwise, I'll be skipping it.

I just tested to see how low I could get the buffers for playback with the new ASIO driver in 24 bit mode, and the best I can get is 150 samples. Not bad on an aging Phenom x6!

I'm just about to start on the control panel. I know that a lot of people are looking to use this with Reaper. I'm trying to find a way to work around the fact that Reaper closes the driver when one opens the properties dialog. I'll post more as I get to new milestones.

Cheers!

Mike

index.php?t=getfile&id=823&private=0
Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107169 is a reply to message #107168] Mon, 23 July 2012 18:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerryg is currently offline  kerryg   CANADA
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Insanely cool!!! Mike, have you contacted Justin about that driver closure issue yet? He's highly accomodating - maybe he'll have a idea about how Reaper could be more helpful.

"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107172 is a reply to message #107169] Tue, 24 July 2012 06:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mikeaudet   CANADA
Messages: 477
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Location: Canada
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Hi Kerry,

I have been emailing with Justin. He is an extremely cool guy! I think we're going to make the driver and Reaper work very well together. Smile

Cheers!

Mike
Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107179 is a reply to message #107172] Tue, 31 July 2012 20:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ganttmann1 is currently offline  ganttmann1   UNITED STATES
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Registered: April 2009
Location: Silver Spring
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Please forgive my ignorance - Is this a driver that will allow the Paris hardware to run w/ Reaper? And THANKS Mike for keeping working on this stuff!

Gantt

mikeaudet wrote on Tue, 24 July 2012 09:58
Hi Kerry,

I have been emailing with Justin. He is an extremely cool guy! I think we're going to make the driver and Reaper work very well together. Smile

Cheers!

Mike

Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107181 is a reply to message #107179] Wed, 01 August 2012 05:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mikeaudet   
Messages: 477
Registered: February 2009
Location: Canada
Senior Member
Hi Gantt,

No need to apologize. I'm working on the ASIO driver, which will work with Reaper, and should work with any ASIO host. I'm using it with the 64 bit scherzo driver.

Justin (Reaper developer) just made a change to Reraper that allows the PARIS ASIO driver to work with an external clock. It's very cool!

I'm just working out how to get the control panel working. I was going to use a library called QT, but it isn't playing nice with the rest of the driver code. I've started building it just using the Windows API.

One compromise that I'm leaning towards is having the hardware initialize when the driver is first accessed, not when it is officially started by the ASIO host application. The reason I'm thinking of doing this is that if the driver is reset by the host app, one doesn't have to wait for all the MEC modules to be re-initialized. The down side is that if one were to load up an ASIO host with the intention of using another audio interface, the PARIS hardware would still be initialized if the ASIO driver is installed.

What do you guys think of this?

All the best,

Mike
Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107182 is a reply to message #107181] Wed, 01 August 2012 19:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inkycu is currently offline  inkycu   UNITED STATES
Messages: 36
Registered: December 2010
Member
Hi Mike,

Paris and Reaper...a match made in...wait...does the Reaper have an exclusive with Heaven?

Looking forward to see how this all works!
Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107183 is a reply to message #107181] Thu, 02 August 2012 03:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dnafe is currently offline  dnafe   CANADA
Messages: 390
Registered: February 2009
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mikeaudet wrote on Wed, 01 August 2012 08:32

One compromise that I'm leaning towards is having the hardware initialize when the driver is first accessed, not when it is officially started by the ASIO host application. The reason I'm thinking of doing this is that if the driver is reset by the host app, one doesn't have to wait for all the MEC modules to be re-initialized. The down side is that if one were to load up an ASIO host with the intention of using another audio interface, the PARIS hardware would still be initialized if the ASIO driver is installed.

What do you guys think of this?

All the best,

Mike




What would the impact be on Paris?
Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107185 is a reply to message #107183] Thu, 02 August 2012 07:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mikeaudet   
Messages: 477
Registered: February 2009
Location: Canada
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There would be on impact on the PARIS application. I need to fix the effects subsystem before we can run that in 64 bit Windows. It may make running Reaper and PARIS.exe a problem. Does that matter to anyone?
Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107186 is a reply to message #107185] Thu, 02 August 2012 10:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dnafe is currently offline  dnafe   CANADA
Messages: 390
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not for me...it's usually one or the other
Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107187 is a reply to message #107158] Fri, 03 August 2012 00:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
paris1958 is currently offline  paris1958   
Messages: 9
Registered: June 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Junior Member
Mike, YOU ROCK!

For me, I'd just like to be able to use PARIS again. I have 16 audio inputs dying to be used again.

On my secondary drive where I installed Win 7 32bit, I still haven't been able to get the current version of the scherzo driver to initialize my PARIS hardware.

I've been using SONAR X1 for quite a while. I like the fact I'm able to use VST instruments. A feature like that in PARIS would have been absolutely incredible. With the new PARIS ASIO driver would I be able to use my PARIS hardware with SONAR?

By the way, what will you be charging for the new 64bit drivers?

Cheers, JON

P.S. I hope everything turned out fine with your wife.
Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107188 is a reply to message #107187] Fri, 03 August 2012 07:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mikeaudet   
Messages: 477
Registered: February 2009
Location: Canada
Senior Member
Hi Jon,

As far as I know, you'd be able to use the ASIO driver with Sonar or any other ASIO host. I'm just testing with Reaper.

I should clarify - any other 32 bit ASIO host. We need to convert the PSCL to 64 bits before I can get a 64 bit ASIO driver. I keep going back and forth on the best way to do that.

The 64 bit scherzo I have written allows for 32 bit software to connect to the driver under 64 bit windows. I should also allow 64 bit connections, but I don't have any to try it with.

I'm not sure what to charge. I'm going to have to buy a certificate to allow the 64 bit scherzo to load under Windows 7. I've got to figure all that out.

As for VST instruments, I've got that on my mind for the rebuild of the PARIS effects subsystem. That's the next stop after I get the ASIO done.

All the best!

Mike

Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107189 is a reply to message #107188] Fri, 03 August 2012 08:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesandbox1 is currently offline  thesandbox1   UNITED STATES
Messages: 167
Registered: July 2009
Location: Carmel, IN
Senior Member
Not to get ahead of the game but did I just hear VSTi's in PARIS for the first time????? Shocked

Mike....you are above and beyond!


Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107190 is a reply to message #107189] Fri, 03 August 2012 08:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mikeaudet   
Messages: 477
Registered: February 2009
Location: Canada
Senior Member
Well, this could take some time, but yes, I'd like to see that. I have to decompile the ensoniq written effects subsystem to assembly language and figure out how it works. Once I've got that done, I'll be in a position to write a new one in c++, and that's where things can get interesting.

Now, this is going to take some time. It's a big, big, ambitious project. Some might call it crazy. But, I really love PARIS, and I want to see it happen. I've already read a huge book on assembly language and tested some decompilers. It's started.

I always think long term with things.

Here are the steps - and they will take years. I guess step zero was the 64 bit scherzo.

1) ASIO driver - figure out how the voice engine works (done) and how we assign MEC modules (about to be done)

2) Fix the effects code - figure out how to build a VST host and how to assign effects to the EDS cards.

3) At this point, I'll know all I need to to write some kind of 64 bit PARIS software, be it all new code or written an an extension to an existing app.

That's what I'm thinking right now. But, I may change direction at some point. I'd also like to write a MIDI sequencer plugin for PARIS that would load in an effects slot and would be timed to the sample position. I may do that, or I may just get a new app going. There are so many possibilities. There's also always the faint hope that I'll get access to the PARIS source.

All the best!

Mike
Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107198 is a reply to message #107158] Sat, 04 August 2012 12:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
imajon is currently offline  imajon   
Messages: 55
Registered: June 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Member
Amazing! Go MIKE Go!
My new Win 7 system is waiting and ready!

Next step will be to move the hardware side of things to Sharc dsp processors on new pcie cards or rack mount interface with PC Host card. I hope ID hires you and puts you in charge of the Project. Scary what Paris could do with more modern DA Converters along with the Mix Bus Algorithems using 64 bit word length like the Sac Audio Console ala Bob Lentini (Hand Compiled in Assembler) I had talked with him once and was talking about inerfacing Paris Hardware with it via ASIO. I described to him the ability of Paris to not clip when pushed and the 52 bit mix buss saturation thing going on. He explained to me the 64 bit word length of his system and the much added headroom with that. Though not exactly the same as what Paris does but combined application would be amazing.

Can't wait for the ASIO Driver that sees all the I/O of Paris Configuration
That is huge!


ESP2 Processor PDF File for geeks out there!
http://watchmykidspc.com/ESP2.pdf

[Updated on: Sat, 04 August 2012 13:01]

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Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107201 is a reply to message #107158] Mon, 06 August 2012 01:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cesmag is currently offline  cesmag   ITALY
Messages: 7
Registered: October 2010
Junior Member
Hi, a question and excuse me if it is off topic . Will it ever be possible to use the c16 (at least some basic functions: faders, mute and solo, master volume, play, record, etc) with Reaper after the driver is ready and finished?
Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107202 is a reply to message #107201] Mon, 06 August 2012 10:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mikeaudet   CANADA
Messages: 477
Registered: February 2009
Location: Canada
Senior Member
I think that is a fantastic idea! I'm not sure what ability reaper has to access a MIDI controller, but I'm going to see if I can send the C16 commands to a MIDI driver.

Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107203 is a reply to message #107202] Mon, 06 August 2012 14:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dnafe is currently offline  dnafe   CANADA
Messages: 390
Registered: February 2009
Senior Member
Apparently Doug Wellington (I think) has a box designed and built for this.
Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107204 is a reply to message #107203] Mon, 06 August 2012 14:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mikeaudet   CANADA
Messages: 477
Registered: February 2009
Location: Canada
Senior Member
The nice thing about doing this in the ASIO driver is that the PSCL is already loaded. I just have to do some digging to find out exactly how the PARIS app gets notified of the changes and hook in the same way. I think adding this is a great idea.
Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107206 is a reply to message #107158] Mon, 06 August 2012 23:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cesmag is currently offline  cesmag   ITALY
Messages: 7
Registered: October 2010
Junior Member
Wow, supercool!! Looks like Paris is ready for a new life ! Reborn ! Twisted Evil

[Updated on: Mon, 06 August 2012 23:56]

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Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107217 is a reply to message #107206] Fri, 10 August 2012 14:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mikeaudet   CANADA
Messages: 477
Registered: February 2009
Location: Canada
Senior Member
Hi all,

just a progress report: I've got the control panel querying windows for the list of MID interfaces and putting them in a combo box for selection, and the driver itself both opens a midi out port and registers with the PSCL for C16 fader callbacks.

I'll write as soon as I have passed some c16 fader data back via a MIDI port.

Cheers!

Mike

Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107222 is a reply to message #107217] Thu, 16 August 2012 12:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mikeaudet   CANADA
Messages: 477
Registered: February 2009
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I just sent a midi command to Reaper from the c16...very cool!

UPDATE: I'm now controlling the transport, the faders, and the mutes from my c16!!!

[Updated on: Thu, 16 August 2012 12:34]

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Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107223 is a reply to message #107222] Thu, 16 August 2012 13:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerryg is currently offline  kerryg   CANADA
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Insanely cool! Woooot!

"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107224 is a reply to message #107158] Fri, 17 August 2012 04:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cesmag is currently offline  cesmag   ITALY
Messages: 7
Registered: October 2010
Junior Member
great Mike ! people...don't sell your hardware, Paper (Paris+Reaper Laughing ) looks promising here

[Updated on: Fri, 17 August 2012 05:14]

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Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107225 is a reply to message #107224] Fri, 17 August 2012 05:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dnafe is currently offline  dnafe   CANADA
Messages: 390
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Now that is very cool

Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107226 is a reply to message #107225] Fri, 17 August 2012 07:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mikeaudet   CANADA
Messages: 477
Registered: February 2009
Location: Canada
Senior Member
It's working out really well. My next step is getting some code working to get midi messages from Reaper (I assume it sends the starting values when a project is loaded) and turn on the up or down arrows accordingly and turn them off when the fader hits the right spot.

I'm going to have to contact Justin about the jog wheel. I set it up to send pitch wheel messages, but Reaper doesn't seem to work well with them. The playback moves forward, but then moves back when the speed of the jog wheel returns to zero.

It was a very, very cool experience seeing the C16 control another app's transport, faders, and mutes for the very first time.

Cheers!

Mike
Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107227 is a reply to message #107226] Fri, 17 August 2012 10:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerryg is currently offline  kerryg   
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Awesome - is his being done through the Reaper extension SDK or is it all native inside the PARIS driver?

"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107228 is a reply to message #107227] Sat, 18 August 2012 06:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mikeaudet   CANADA
Messages: 477
Registered: February 2009
Location: Canada
Senior Member
Hi Kerry,

It's all being done inside the PARIS ASIO driver. There is a drop down box in the control panel, and the user can choose the MIDI port to use to send out MIDI messages that are derived from the C16 controls. I'd like it to work with any ASIO host, but I'll take a look at the SDK. That sounds interesting.

Cheers!

Mike
Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107230 is a reply to message #107158] Tue, 21 August 2012 12:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anfallszonen is currently offline  anfallszonen   SWEDEN
Messages: 10
Registered: April 2009
Junior Member
My god what are you made off....
Do you realize what you are about to do! PARIS is about to do a leap I never tought possible. Thank you for doing this fantastic job! I will spread the word.
Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107231 is a reply to message #107230] Tue, 21 August 2012 12:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thesandbox1 is currently offline  thesandbox1   UNITED STATES
Messages: 167
Registered: July 2009
Location: Carmel, IN
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WOWZERS! Shocked Very Happy

Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107240 is a reply to message #107231] Sun, 26 August 2012 18:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mikeaudet   CANADA
Messages: 477
Registered: February 2009
Location: Canada
Senior Member
Hi everyone,

I've been working of the C16 support. Reaper does not send feedback to a control surface without using a plugin. So, without a Reaper extension, there is no way to get the arrow lights to appear when the C16 is out of sync with the application.

So, I've been reading the Reaper API examples, and I'm going to write one that sends the needed feedback over a MIDI port. This way, the driver will work as envisioned on any other apps that send feedback, and Reaper will work, too.

Things are never as easy as I hope they will be, but we're making progress.

All the best,

Mike
Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107248 is a reply to message #107240] Sat, 01 September 2012 17:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Philip is currently offline  Philip   UNITED STATES
Messages: 67
Registered: June 2009
Location: Utah
Member
mikeaudet wrote on Sun, 26 August 2012 19:03
Hi everyone,

I've been working of the C16 support. Reaper does not send feedback to a control surface without using a plugin. So, without a Reaper extension, there is no way to get the arrow lights to appear when the C16 is out of sync with the application.

So, I've been reading the Reaper API examples, and I'm going to write one that sends the needed feedback over a MIDI port. This way, the driver will work as envisioned on any other apps that send feedback, and Reaper will work, too.

Things are never as easy as I hope they will be, but we're making progress.

All the best,

Mike


This is insane. I am still lurking here. Using paris for my important projects and reaper when I am just tracking ideas for fun. So beyond Cool! Thanks for all your efforts Mike, and nice to see all the interest out there over this project. It seems like the interest in Paris is growing more now than I have seen since its hay day back in 1998-00.

Thanks to kerry too.

Rock!

-Phil
Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107255 is a reply to message #107158] Thu, 06 September 2012 23:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mattcelt   UNITED STATES
Messages: 31
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hey Mike, had to chime in and add my thanks to the mix here. I cannot wait to send you a payment for a new driver. Very Happy

I've been working with the Reaper actions a bit in the past couple of days, trying in vain to get my Griffin Powermate to work in Reaper the way the C16 jog wheel works in PARIS. So far, it's been a no-go. Confused So your work with that is of real interest and relevance.

Forgive my ignorance, I hope I'm not stirring the pot unnecessarily here... but I was wondering, is MIDI really the best way to go for the C16's functionality? Would something like OSC (which Reaper already supports) or another protocol altogether be better? I don't have the technical know-how to reverse-engineer the RS-422 codes the board uses, so I don't know what the hardware supports, but I guess I'm worried about latency and that the density of codes one would need to process for a large-scale PARIS rig might overwhelm a MIDI channel. (Of course, I'm taking it as a given that the new ASIO driver would support multiple EDS/MEC/C16s...)




Also, completely off-topic... one of the main reasons I have never been able to get comfortable with another DAW is their user interfaces all look so damn flat. One of PARIS' best features (IMHO) is the very, very 3D look and feel of the system. Has anyone ever made a PARIS-lookalike theme for themselves in Reaper?
Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107258 is a reply to message #107255] Fri, 07 September 2012 04:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mikeaudet   CANADA
Messages: 477
Registered: February 2009
Location: Canada
Senior Member
Hi Matt,

You raise some good questions. The C16 uses a MIDI like protocol that has 10 bit values instead of 7 bit, as in the case of MIDI.

There is no danger of several C16s overwhelming a MIDI channel. It only sends data when a fader is moved or a button is pressed. The way I've set it up, each C16 sends the data over it's own midi channel. The first C16 sends data on channel 1, the second on channel 2, etc.

There might have been an argument to use the Reaper API instead of MIDI, but Reaper's API controls send and receive fader data as 7 bit values, just like MIDI. So, my thinking is that it's better to make something that will work with any audio app that supports MIDI control, since there's no advantage in Reaper to doing it using the API.

As for latency, I haven't noticed any at all. Keep in mind, it's MIDI, but it's all using internal "virtual" MIDI ports. There's no actual data going into and out of the computer.

Cheers!

Mike
Re: PARIS ASIO/Scherzo64 Coming along very nicely! [message #107259 is a reply to message #107258] Fri, 07 September 2012 14:03 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
carlamburn is currently offline  carlamburn   UNITED STATES
Messages: 6
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
I am still checking this site off and on. Mike, I still use your multi-comp plugin all the time.

rock on,
- Carl
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