Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Drumagog
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| Re: Drumagog [message #98005 is a reply to message #98004] |
Wed, 16 April 2008 09:03   |
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I don't have any direct observations myself - but for anyone contemplating
answering this, if you feel like tackling this definitively and in some
depth, I'll add the results to the Wiki as a procedure.
That'll save me the effort of eventually culling through the NG for
definitive answers, which is often fun and thought-provoking but with 43,000
posts to search it's time-consuming - and open to error since I don't have
the ability to test it myself.
Thanks!
- Kerry
On 4/16/08 9:03 AM, in article 4806236c$1@linux, "Michael Kraynak"
<mgk2052@ptd.net> wrote:
>
> Hi, small writer's studio with real drums, wondering about Drumagog and
> whether
> any of you have experience. Would also be interested in any views on drum
> machines you may have experience with.
>
> As I understand it, my option would be Drumagog Pro (but not BFD versions.)
>
> PARIS C16 Pro and Mec with 8in/8out...Mac OS 9.0.4
> Just PARIS.
>
> Thanks for your time.
"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
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| Re: Drumagog [message #98007 is a reply to message #98004] |
Wed, 16 April 2008 09:40 |
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I run Drumogog in Paris on a Mac w/ OS 9.2.2. It works fine for the most
part but I believe us Paris/Mac users are stuck in an older version. The
newest version of Drumagog only runs in OS X. If you're looking to replace
kicks, snares and occasionally toms it works pretty well. One caveat - the
times I've needed it the most have been with the kind of drummers who get
the kinds of sounds with which Drumagog works the worst - soft, indistinct
kicks and snares with a lot of noise-to-signal. It works great with a good
drummer but, of course, that's when you need it the least!
Gantt
"Michael Kraynak" <mgk2052@ptd.net> wrote:
>
>Hi, small writer's studio with real drums, wondering about Drumagog and
whether
>any of you have experience. Would also be interested in any views on drum
>machines you may have experience with.
>
>As I understand it, my option would be Drumagog Pro (but not BFD versions.)
>
>PARIS C16 Pro and Mec with 8in/8out...Mac OS 9.0.4
>Just PARIS.
>
>Thanks for your time.
Gantt Kushner
Gizmo Recording Company
Silver Spring, MD
www.gizmorecording.com
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| Re: Drumagog [message #98009 is a reply to message #98007] |
Wed, 16 April 2008 10:14 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
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Senior Member |
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I'd concur with my experiences with it. Rim is a cool dude, and Dgog a cool
product but IMO it's more for triggering a different sound. You can't really
fix weak/uneven hits with any replacer, and bleed can be a real problem.
Now, if paris had decent MIDI you could edit the triggered events pretty
easily (assuming the newer versions of Dgog have midi output - I use
external triggering myself) and kill the bleed/hit issues quick. The only
reall way to get it right in paris is to edit each audio track into a
'trigger' event using cut/paste/gain/trim functions, and that's a big hassle
across an entire drum kit's shell mics, and assumes that you have a track
for each drum.
AA
"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:48062bf2$1@linux...
>
> I run Drumogog in Paris on a Mac w/ OS 9.2.2. It works fine for the most
> part but I believe us Paris/Mac users are stuck in an older version. The
> newest version of Drumagog only runs in OS X. If you're looking to
> replace
> kicks, snares and occasionally toms it works pretty well. One caveat -
> the
> times I've needed it the most have been with the kind of drummers who get
> the kinds of sounds with which Drumagog works the worst - soft, indistinct
> kicks and snares with a lot of noise-to-signal. It works great with a
> good
> drummer but, of course, that's when you need it the least!
>
> Gantt
>
> "Michael Kraynak" <mgk2052@ptd.net> wrote:
>>
>>Hi, small writer's studio with real drums, wondering about Drumagog and
> whether
>>any of you have experience. Would also be interested in any views on drum
>>machines you may have experience with.
>>
>>As I understand it, my option would be Drumagog Pro (but not BFD
>>versions.)
>>
>>PARIS C16 Pro and Mec with 8in/8out...Mac OS 9.0.4
>>Just PARIS.
>>
>>Thanks for your time.
>
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| Re: Drumagog [message #98016 is a reply to message #98007] |
Wed, 16 April 2008 20:07 |
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Hi Gantt, I those cases where you are mixung weak "hits' drums, the beauty
of DAWs is that you can easily add gain or even normaliz the track, then
add Drumagog.. Works like a charm..
So, to the contrary, When I get weak hitting drums, I just Noramliz, or add
gain..Then Gog
"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>I run Drumogog in Paris on a Mac w/ OS 9.2.2. It works fine for the most
>part but I believe us Paris/Mac users are stuck in an older version. The
>newest version of Drumagog only runs in OS X. If you're looking to replace
>kicks, snares and occasionally toms it works pretty well. One caveat -
the
>times I've needed it the most have been with the kind of drummers who get
>the kinds of sounds with which Drumagog works the worst - soft, indistinct
>kicks and snares with a lot of noise-to-signal. It works great with a good
>drummer but, of course, that's when you need it the least!
>
>Gantt
>
>"Michael Kraynak" <mgk2052@ptd.net> wrote:
>>
>>Hi, small writer's studio with real drums, wondering about Drumagog and
>whether
>>any of you have experience. Would also be interested in any views on drum
>>machines you may have experience with.
>>
>>As I understand it, my option would be Drumagog Pro (but not BFD versions.)
>>
>>PARIS C16 Pro and Mec with 8in/8out...Mac OS 9.0.4
>>Just PARIS.
>>
>>Thanks for your time.
>
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| Re: Drumagog [message #98017 is a reply to message #98007] |
Wed, 16 April 2008 20:07 |
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Hi Gantt, I those cases where you are mixung weak "hits' drums, the beauty
of DAWs is that you can easily add gain or even normaliz the track, then
add Drumagog.. Works like a charm..
So, to the contrary, When I get weak hitting drums, I just Noramliz, or add
gain..Then Gog
"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>I run Drumogog in Paris on a Mac w/ OS 9.2.2. It works fine for the most
>part but I believe us Paris/Mac users are stuck in an older version. The
>newest version of Drumagog only runs in OS X. If you're looking to replace
>kicks, snares and occasionally toms it works pretty well. One caveat -
the
>times I've needed it the most have been with the kind of drummers who get
>the kinds of sounds with which Drumagog works the worst - soft, indistinct
>kicks and snares with a lot of noise-to-signal. It works great with a good
>drummer but, of course, that's when you need it the least!
>
>Gantt
>
>"Michael Kraynak" <mgk2052@ptd.net> wrote:
>>
>>Hi, small writer's studio with real drums, wondering about Drumagog and
>whether
>>any of you have experience. Would also be interested in any views on drum
>>machines you may have experience with.
>>
>>As I understand it, my option would be Drumagog Pro (but not BFD versions.)
>>
>>PARIS C16 Pro and Mec with 8in/8out...Mac OS 9.0.4
>>Just PARIS.
>>
>>Thanks for your time.
>
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| Re: Drumagog [message #98029 is a reply to message #98017] |
Thu, 17 April 2008 07:11 |
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Hi LaMont,
It's not weak hits that cause the problem so much as the lousy signal-to-noise
ratio caused by weak hits - like too much hat in the snare mic, too much
general drum noise in the kick mic. Plus, the guy I was trying to fix loved
to play intricate little snare and tom fills that, even with a good drummer,
would be tricky for Drumagog to track.
Gantt
"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Hi Gantt, I those cases where you are mixung weak "hits' drums, the beauty
>of DAWs is that you can easily add gain or even normaliz the track, then
>add Drumagog.. Works like a charm..
>
>So, to the contrary, When I get weak hitting drums, I just Noramliz, or
add
>gain..Then Gog
>
>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>I run Drumogog in Paris on a Mac w/ OS 9.2.2. It works fine for the most
>>part but I believe us Paris/Mac users are stuck in an older version. The
>>newest version of Drumagog only runs in OS X. If you're looking to replace
>>kicks, snares and occasionally toms it works pretty well. One caveat -
>the
>>times I've needed it the most have been with the kind of drummers who get
>>the kinds of sounds with which Drumagog works the worst - soft, indistinct
>>kicks and snares with a lot of noise-to-signal. It works great with a
good
>>drummer but, of course, that's when you need it the least!
>>
>>Gantt
>>
>>"Michael Kraynak" <mgk2052@ptd.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>Hi, small writer's studio with real drums, wondering about Drumagog and
>>whether
>>>any of you have experience. Would also be interested in any views on
drum
>>>machines you may have experience with.
>>>
>>>As I understand it, my option would be Drumagog Pro (but not BFD versions.)
>>>
>>>PARIS C16 Pro and Mec with 8in/8out...Mac OS 9.0.4
>>>Just PARIS.
>>>
>>>Thanks for your time.
>>
>
Gantt Kushner
Gizmo Recording Company
Silver Spring, MD
www.gizmorecording.com
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| Re: Drumagog [message #98037 is a reply to message #98035] |
Thu, 17 April 2008 11:57 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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What Neil said, except don't try to record the MIDI into PARIS. When I
tried that, the timing was off. Use another DAW for MIDI.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
Neil wrote:
> "Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Hi LaMont,
>>
>> It's not weak hits that cause the problem so much as the lousy signal-to-noise
>> ratio caused by weak hits - like too much hat in the snare mic, too much
>> general drum noise in the kick mic. Plus, the guy I was trying to fix loved
>> to play intricate little snare and tom fills that, even with a good drummer,
>> would be tricky for Drumagog to track.
>
>
> You probably need to get yourself some Ddrum triggers & a good
> e-kit brain with highly adjustable sensitivity parameters for
> something like that, then. Even if the e-kit sounds aren't what
> you're going to end up using, what you can do is track the MIDI
> output from the brain, then insert your drum VSTi of choice.
>
> Neil
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| Re: Drumagog [message #98060 is a reply to message #98035] |
Fri, 18 April 2008 05:35 |
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Yeah, but it was a honky-tonk country band for cryin' out loud! You don't
think MIDI with a retro-roots project like that! And I suspect the drummer
would have freaked if I had tried putting triggers on his drums. The moral
of the story is GET A GOOD DRUMMER!!! I tell all my clients that the most
important money they'll spend on their project (besides the money spent to
use my studio, of course!) is the money spent to hire the best bass player
and drummer for their style of music they can find. Almost everything else
can be fixed (God, I hate to say this!) in the mix, but you gotta have a
rhythm section. They're the floor (and the foundation!) of the house. With
a great rhythm section you always know that no matter where you go, no matter
how dark it gets, when you put your foot down there'll be something solid
underneath it. Drumagog can make the floor any color you want it to be but
it can't make it rock solid.
Gantt
"Neil" <OIOI@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>Hi LaMont,
>>
>>It's not weak hits that cause the problem so much as the lousy signal-to-noise
>>ratio caused by weak hits - like too much hat in the snare mic, too much
>>general drum noise in the kick mic. Plus, the guy I was trying to fix
loved
>>to play intricate little snare and tom fills that, even with a good drummer,
>>would be tricky for Drumagog to track.
>
>
>You probably need to get yourself some Ddrum triggers & a good
>e-kit brain with highly adjustable sensitivity parameters for
>something like that, then. Even if the e-kit sounds aren't what
>you're going to end up using, what you can do is track the MIDI
>output from the brain, then insert your drum VSTi of choice.
>
>Neil
Gantt Kushner
Gizmo Recording Company
Silver Spring, MD
www.gizmorecording.com
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| Re: Drumagog [message #98062 is a reply to message #98060] |
Fri, 18 April 2008 09:27 |
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Yeah, agreed on Drumagog's limited utility in "turd-polishing". In fact, I
find techniques like that sometimes make bad drummers sound much worse; a
nice strong confident kick tone on a part that wobbles and stumbles too much
can be a cruel spotlight.
Drumagog just did a good 'un for me though; we did a live demo DVD for an
artist's new project a while back and the kick didn't like the room all that
much, so I got the engineer to use Drumagog to give a "point" to it. You can
hear it in "Chasing Rainbows" and "Love".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo_OiA0xrSo
(I'm the guy on the right :D).
http://www.michaelboothpalmer.com/
- k
Wish it could have fixed more stuff :D
On 4/18/08 5:35 AM, in article 480895a6$1@linux, "Gantt Kushner"
<ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Yeah, but it was a honky-tonk country band for cryin' out loud! You don't
> think MIDI with a retro-roots project like that! And I suspect the drummer
> would have freaked if I had tried putting triggers on his drums. The moral
> of the story is GET A GOOD DRUMMER!!! I tell all my clients that the most
> important money they'll spend on their project (besides the money spent to
> use my studio, of course!) is the money spent to hire the best bass player
> and drummer for their style of music they can find. Almost everything else
> can be fixed (God, I hate to say this!) in the mix, but you gotta have a
> rhythm section. They're the floor (and the foundation!) of the house. With
> a great rhythm section you always know that no matter where you go, no matter
> how dark it gets, when you put your foot down there'll be something solid
> underneath it. Drumagog can make the floor any color you want it to be but
> it can't make it rock solid.
>
> Gantt
>
> "Neil" <OIOI@OIU.com> wrote:
>>
>> "Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi LaMont,
>>>
>>> It's not weak hits that cause the problem so much as the lousy
>>> signal-to-noise
>>> ratio caused by weak hits - like too much hat in the snare mic, too much
>>> general drum noise in the kick mic. Plus, the guy I was trying to fix
> loved
>>> to play intricate little snare and tom fills that, even with a good drummer,
>>> would be tricky for Drumagog to track.
>>
>>
>> You probably need to get yourself some Ddrum triggers & a good
>> e-kit brain with highly adjustable sensitivity parameters for
>> something like that, then. Even if the e-kit sounds aren't what
>> you're going to end up using, what you can do is track the MIDI
>> output from the brain, then insert your drum VSTi of choice.
>>
>> Neil
>
"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
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