Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » OT: Wow, way to go France!
| OT: Wow, way to go France! [message #84058] |
Sun, 06 May 2007 20:40  |
Rich Lamanna
Messages: 316
Registered: February 2006
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Senior Member |
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France Elects a Thatcherite President
Kenneth R. Timmerman
Monday, May 7, 2007
Newsmax.com
On Sunday France elected a pro-American, conservative named Nicolas Sarkozy
as its new president.
The 52-year-old who beat back by 10 percentage points his Socialist rival,
promises an unabashed Thatcherite agenda for France.
Sarkozy also replaces the embattled Jacques Chirac, a relic from an earlier
age of French politics, who made anti-Americanism his hallmark.
Sarkozy campaigned on a platform of sweeping reforms, pledging to dismantle
large portions of the social welfare state and to make France competitive on
world markets again.
You can read the rest here:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/6/150434.sht ml?s=al&promo_code=3392-1
Carry on,
Rich
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| Re: Wow, way to go France! [message #84065 is a reply to message #84058] |
Sun, 06 May 2007 21:35  |
Sarah
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2007
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Senior Member |
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Dang, I was rootin' for the girl. :)
S
"Rich Lamanna" <richard.lamanna@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:463e92e0@linux...
> France Elects a Thatcherite President
> Kenneth R. Timmerman
> Monday, May 7, 2007
> Newsmax.com
>
> On Sunday France elected a pro-American, conservative named Nicolas
> Sarkozy
> as its new president.
>
> The 52-year-old who beat back by 10 percentage points his Socialist rival,
> promises an unabashed Thatcherite agenda for France.
>
> Sarkozy also replaces the embattled Jacques Chirac, a relic from an
> earlier
> age of French politics, who made anti-Americanism his hallmark.
>
> Sarkozy campaigned on a platform of sweeping reforms, pledging to
> dismantle
> large portions of the social welfare state and to make France competitive
> on
> world markets again.
>
> You can read the rest here:
> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/6/150434.sht ml?s=al&promo_code=3392-1
>
> Carry on,
> Rich
>
>
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| Re: Wow, way to go France! [message #84068 is a reply to message #84058] |
Mon, 07 May 2007 03:21 |
xpam_mark
Messages: 126
Registered: March 2007
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Senior Member |
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His plans will meet stiff opposition with Airbus floundering and promises of
10,000 Airbus jobs, primarily in France, going bye-bye.
WMW
"Rich Lamanna" <richard.lamanna@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:463e92e0@linux...
> France Elects a Thatcherite President
> Kenneth R. Timmerman
> Monday, May 7, 2007
> Newsmax.com
>
> On Sunday France elected a pro-American, conservative named Nicolas
> Sarkozy
> as its new president.
>
> The 52-year-old who beat back by 10 percentage points his Socialist rival,
> promises an unabashed Thatcherite agenda for France.
>
> Sarkozy also replaces the embattled Jacques Chirac, a relic from an
> earlier
> age of French politics, who made anti-Americanism his hallmark.
>
> Sarkozy campaigned on a platform of sweeping reforms, pledging to
> dismantle
> large portions of the social welfare state and to make France competitive
> on
> world markets again.
>
> You can read the rest here:
> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/6/150434.sht ml?s=al&promo_code=3392-1
>
> Carry on,
> Rich
>
>
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| Re: Wow, way to go France! [message #84071 is a reply to message #84065] |
Mon, 07 May 2007 06:58 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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Dang, why ARE French women so beautiful and french men so ugly?
How's that work?
http://www.planetoxygene.com/anne.jpg
Anne can kick my butt anytime...
heh
DC
seriously though, the damn mainstream media never tells us about the pro-america
Euros. They just get real quiet and hope we don't notice. Guess who elected
this guy?
Good for France. Now we see if he can fix anything.
"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>Dang, I was rootin' for the girl. :)
>
>S
>
>
>"Rich Lamanna" <richard.lamanna@verizon.net> wrote in message
>news:463e92e0@linux...
>> France Elects a Thatcherite President
>> Kenneth R. Timmerman
>> Monday, May 7, 2007
>> Newsmax.com
>>
>> On Sunday France elected a pro-American, conservative named Nicolas
>> Sarkozy
>> as its new president.
>>
>> The 52-year-old who beat back by 10 percentage points his Socialist rival,
>> promises an unabashed Thatcherite agenda for France.
>>
>> Sarkozy also replaces the embattled Jacques Chirac, a relic from an
>> earlier
>> age of French politics, who made anti-Americanism his hallmark.
>>
>> Sarkozy campaigned on a platform of sweeping reforms, pledging to
>> dismantle
>> large portions of the social welfare state and to make France competitive
>> on
>> world markets again.
>>
>> You can read the rest here:
>> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/6/150434.sht ml?s=al&promo_code=3392-1
>>
>> Carry on,
>> Rich
>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: OT: Wow, way to go France! [message #84072 is a reply to message #84058] |
Mon, 07 May 2007 07:21 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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Sarkozy on global warming:
"a great nation like the United States has the duty not to oppose the
fight against global warming, but to lead that battle, because what is
at stake is the destiny of mankind."
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
Rich Lamanna wrote:
> France Elects a Thatcherite President
> Kenneth R. Timmerman
> Monday, May 7, 2007
> Newsmax.com
>
> On Sunday France elected a pro-American, conservative named Nicolas Sarkozy
> as its new president.
>
> The 52-year-old who beat back by 10 percentage points his Socialist rival,
> promises an unabashed Thatcherite agenda for France.
>
> Sarkozy also replaces the embattled Jacques Chirac, a relic from an earlier
> age of French politics, who made anti-Americanism his hallmark.
>
> Sarkozy campaigned on a platform of sweeping reforms, pledging to dismantle
> large portions of the social welfare state and to make France competitive on
> world markets again.
>
> You can read the rest here:
> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/6/150434.sht ml?s=al&promo_code=3392-1
>
> Carry on,
> Rich
>
>
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| Re: OT: Wow, way to go France! [message #84074 is a reply to message #84072] |
Mon, 07 May 2007 08:28 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
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Let another round of the Jamie Jihad begin.
Whaddya have a search engine portal permanently set to the
term "global warming" or something?
Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>
>Sarkozy on global warming:
>
>"a great nation like the United States has the duty not to oppose the
>fight against global warming, but to lead that battle, because what is
>at stake is the destiny of mankind."
>
>Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>Rich Lamanna wrote:
>> France Elects a Thatcherite President
>> Kenneth R. Timmerman
>> Monday, May 7, 2007
>> Newsmax.com
>>
>> On Sunday France elected a pro-American, conservative named Nicolas Sarkozy
>> as its new president.
>>
>> The 52-year-old who beat back by 10 percentage points his Socialist rival,
>> promises an unabashed Thatcherite agenda for France.
>>
>> Sarkozy also replaces the embattled Jacques Chirac, a relic from an earlier
>> age of French politics, who made anti-Americanism his hallmark.
>>
>> Sarkozy campaigned on a platform of sweeping reforms, pledging to dismantle
>> large portions of the social welfare state and to make France competitive
on
>> world markets again.
>>
>> You can read the rest here:
>> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/6/150434.sht ml?s=al&promo_code=3392-1
>>
>> Carry on,
>> Rich
>>
>>
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| Re: OT: Wow, way to go France! [message #84076 is a reply to message #84074] |
Mon, 07 May 2007 08:45 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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Hey Neil, Sarkozy is in the news right now and his comment caught my
eye. I think his perspective on global warming is worth sharing.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
Neil wrote:
> Whaddya have a search engine portal permanently set to the
> term "global warming" or something?
> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>> Sarkozy on global warming:
>>
>> "a great nation like the United States has the duty not to oppose the
>> fight against global warming, but to lead that battle, because what is
>> at stake is the destiny of mankind."
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>> Rich Lamanna wrote:
>>> France Elects a Thatcherite President
>>> Kenneth R. Timmerman
>>> Monday, May 7, 2007
>>> Newsmax.com
>>>
>>> On Sunday France elected a pro-American, conservative named Nicolas Sarkozy
>>> as its new president.
>>>
>>> The 52-year-old who beat back by 10 percentage points his Socialist rival,
>>> promises an unabashed Thatcherite agenda for France.
>>>
>>> Sarkozy also replaces the embattled Jacques Chirac, a relic from an earlier
>>> age of French politics, who made anti-Americanism his hallmark.
>>>
>>> Sarkozy campaigned on a platform of sweeping reforms, pledging to dismantle
>>> large portions of the social welfare state and to make France competitive
> on
>>> world markets again.
>>>
>>> You can read the rest here:
>>> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/6/150434.sht ml?s=al&promo_code=3392-1
>>>
>>> Carry on,
>>> Rich
>>>
>>>
>
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| Re: OT: Wow, way to go France! [message #84079 is a reply to message #84072] |
Mon, 07 May 2007 09:32 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
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Senior Member |
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Hmmm.......after Googling Sarkozy for a while, it looks like France has
elected Rudy Guliani. Can they do that?
;o)
"Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:463f3746$1@linux...
>
> Sarkozy on global warming:
>
> "a great nation like the United States has the duty not to oppose the
> fight against global warming, but to lead that battle, because what is at
> stake is the destiny of mankind."
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
> Rich Lamanna wrote:
>> France Elects a Thatcherite President
>> Kenneth R. Timmerman
>> Monday, May 7, 2007
>> Newsmax.com
>>
>> On Sunday France elected a pro-American, conservative named Nicolas
>> Sarkozy
>> as its new president.
>>
>> The 52-year-old who beat back by 10 percentage points his Socialist
>> rival,
>> promises an unabashed Thatcherite agenda for France.
>>
>> Sarkozy also replaces the embattled Jacques Chirac, a relic from an
>> earlier
>> age of French politics, who made anti-Americanism his hallmark.
>>
>> Sarkozy campaigned on a platform of sweeping reforms, pledging to
>> dismantle
>> large portions of the social welfare state and to make France competitive
>> on
>> world markets again.
>>
>> You can read the rest here:
>> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/6/150434.sht ml?s=al&promo_code=3392-1
>>
>> Carry on,
>> Rich
>>
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| Re: OT: Wow, way to go France! [message #84087 is a reply to message #84058] |
Mon, 07 May 2007 11:28 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
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Senior Member |
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Gaullism wasn't inherently anti-American, it was independently pro-French.
Often Americans read any lack of rabid pro American sentiment as anti-Americanism.
France lost final faith in its purported allies during the Suez conflict
when the English decided they were finished fighting and went home without
even telling the French.
What will be interesting is if Sarkozy can really do the things he says he
wants to do. The biggest challenge will be reforming agricultural subsidies.
All those picture perfect wineries and dairy farms you see in the tour guides?
A handful would be going concerns without subsidies of between 40 and 75
percent of income. Personally I don't think it can be done without actual
revolt--the French consider mildly organized violence a legitimate form of
political expression. But we shall see, and it will be interesting to watch.
TCB
"Rich Lamanna" <richard.lamanna@verizon.net> wrote:
>France Elects a Thatcherite President
>Kenneth R. Timmerman
>Monday, May 7, 2007
>Newsmax.com
>
>On Sunday France elected a pro-American, conservative named Nicolas Sarkozy
>as its new president.
>
>The 52-year-old who beat back by 10 percentage points his Socialist rival,
>promises an unabashed Thatcherite agenda for France.
>
>Sarkozy also replaces the embattled Jacques Chirac, a relic from an earlier
>age of French politics, who made anti-Americanism his hallmark.
>
>Sarkozy campaigned on a platform of sweeping reforms, pledging to dismantle
>large portions of the social welfare state and to make France competitive
on
>world markets again.
>
>You can read the rest here:
> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/6/150434.sht ml?s=al&promo_code=3392-1
>
>Carry on,
>Rich
>
>
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| Re: OT: Wow, way to go France! [message #84120 is a reply to message #84076] |
Mon, 07 May 2007 18:28 |
Rich Lamanna
Messages: 316
Registered: February 2006
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Senior Member |
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Jamie and the rest of you Parisites, here's another view regarding the
global warming polemic, ideology, religion and orthodoxy. These scientists
were involved with the IPCC's report, but dissociated themselves with the
same report when blatant omissions and mistruths were put forth by the IPCC.
They scientifically disprove that CO2 is the cause for temperature change.
Before you all jump out of your skin and shout, "2500 top scientists are on
the IPCC panel and therefore it can't be wrong", you really should watch
this with an open mind. You will, if you have an shred of rational, logical
reasoning, question the present hysteria over the global warming debate.
http://www.jonhs.net/freemovies/great_global_warming_swindle .htm
Just keeping it real,
Rich
"Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:463f4b03$1@linux...
>
> Hey Neil, Sarkozy is in the news right now and his comment caught my
> eye. I think his perspective on global warming is worth sharing.
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
> Neil wrote:
> > Whaddya have a search engine portal permanently set to the
> > term "global warming" or something?
>
> > Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
> >> Sarkozy on global warming:
> >>
> >> "a great nation like the United States has the duty not to oppose the
> >> fight against global warming, but to lead that battle, because what is
> >> at stake is the destiny of mankind."
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> -Jamie
> >> www.JamieKrutz.com
> >>
> >>
> >> Rich Lamanna wrote:
> >>> France Elects a Thatcherite President
> >>> Kenneth R. Timmerman
> >>> Monday, May 7, 2007
> >>> Newsmax.com
> >>>
> >>> On Sunday France elected a pro-American, conservative named Nicolas
Sarkozy
> >>> as its new president.
> >>>
> >>> The 52-year-old who beat back by 10 percentage points his Socialist
rival,
> >>> promises an unabashed Thatcherite agenda for France.
> >>>
> >>> Sarkozy also replaces the embattled Jacques Chirac, a relic from an
earlier
> >>> age of French politics, who made anti-Americanism his hallmark.
> >>>
> >>> Sarkozy campaigned on a platform of sweeping reforms, pledging to
dismantle
> >>> large portions of the social welfare state and to make France
competitive
> > on
> >>> world markets again.
> >>>
> >>> You can read the rest here:
> >>>
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/6/150434.sht ml?s=al&promo_code=3392-1
> >>>
> >>> Carry on,
> >>> Rich
> >>>
> >>>
> >
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| Re: Wow, way to go France! [message #84121 is a reply to message #84065] |
Mon, 07 May 2007 18:29 |
Rich Lamanna
Messages: 316
Registered: February 2006
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Senior Member |
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Yeah, chicks are cool :-)
Rich
"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote in message news:463eae23$1@linux...
> Dang, I was rootin' for the girl. :)
>
> S
>
>
> "Rich Lamanna" <richard.lamanna@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:463e92e0@linux...
> > France Elects a Thatcherite President
> > Kenneth R. Timmerman
> > Monday, May 7, 2007
> > Newsmax.com
> >
> > On Sunday France elected a pro-American, conservative named Nicolas
> > Sarkozy
> > as its new president.
> >
> > The 52-year-old who beat back by 10 percentage points his Socialist
rival,
> > promises an unabashed Thatcherite agenda for France.
> >
> > Sarkozy also replaces the embattled Jacques Chirac, a relic from an
> > earlier
> > age of French politics, who made anti-Americanism his hallmark.
> >
> > Sarkozy campaigned on a platform of sweeping reforms, pledging to
> > dismantle
> > large portions of the social welfare state and to make France
competitive
> > on
> > world markets again.
> >
> > You can read the rest here:
> >
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/6/150434.sht ml?s=al&promo_code=3392-1
> >
> > Carry on,
> > Rich
> >
> >
>
>
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| Re: OT: Wow, way to go France! [message #84122 is a reply to message #84072] |
Mon, 07 May 2007 18:37 |
Rich Lamanna
Messages: 316
Registered: February 2006
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Senior Member |
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He's right and so is Czech President Vaclav Klaus who has warned that
environmentalism and the orthodoxy of global warming are a threat to human
freedom, "the biggest threat to freedom, democracy, the market economy and
prosperity at the beginning of the 21st century is not communism or its
various softer variants. Communism was replaced by the threat of ambitious
environmentalism."
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=37133
Rich
"Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:463f3746$1@linux...
>
> Sarkozy on global warming:
>
> "a great nation like the United States has the duty not to oppose the
> fight against global warming, but to lead that battle, because what is
> at stake is the destiny of mankind."
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
> Rich Lamanna wrote:
> > France Elects a Thatcherite President
> > Kenneth R. Timmerman
> > Monday, May 7, 2007
> > Newsmax.com
> >
> > On Sunday France elected a pro-American, conservative named Nicolas
Sarkozy
> > as its new president.
> >
> > The 52-year-old who beat back by 10 percentage points his Socialist
rival,
> > promises an unabashed Thatcherite agenda for France.
> >
> > Sarkozy also replaces the embattled Jacques Chirac, a relic from an
earlier
> > age of French politics, who made anti-Americanism his hallmark.
> >
> > Sarkozy campaigned on a platform of sweeping reforms, pledging to
dismantle
> > large portions of the social welfare state and to make France
competitive on
> > world markets again.
> >
> > You can read the rest here:
> >
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/6/150434.sht ml?s=al&promo_code=3392-1
> >
> > Carry on,
> > Rich
> >
> >
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| Re: OT: Wow, way to go France! [message #84139 is a reply to message #84122] |
Mon, 07 May 2007 21:50 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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If by ambitious environmentalism you mean violence, violence is not a
great answer to global warming.
The new French president said in his acceptance speech that he will make
global warming a top priority. That sounds like responsible leadership.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
Rich Lamanna wrote:
> He's right and so is Czech President Vaclav Klaus who has warned that
> environmentalism and the orthodoxy of global warming are a threat to human
> freedom, "the biggest threat to freedom, democracy, the market economy and
> prosperity at the beginning of the 21st century is not communism or its
> various softer variants. Communism was replaced by the threat of ambitious
> environmentalism."
>
> http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=37133
>
> Rich
>
>
> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:463f3746$1@linux...
>> Sarkozy on global warming:
>>
>> "a great nation like the United States has the duty not to oppose the
>> fight against global warming, but to lead that battle, because what is
>> at stake is the destiny of mankind."
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>> Rich Lamanna wrote:
>>> France Elects a Thatcherite President
>>> Kenneth R. Timmerman
>>> Monday, May 7, 2007
>>> Newsmax.com
>>>
>>> On Sunday France elected a pro-American, conservative named Nicolas
> Sarkozy
>>> as its new president.
>>>
>>> The 52-year-old who beat back by 10 percentage points his Socialist
> rival,
>>> promises an unabashed Thatcherite agenda for France.
>>>
>>> Sarkozy also replaces the embattled Jacques Chirac, a relic from an
> earlier
>>> age of French politics, who made anti-Americanism his hallmark.
>>>
>>> Sarkozy campaigned on a platform of sweeping reforms, pledging to
> dismantle
>>> large portions of the social welfare state and to make France
> competitive on
>>> world markets again.
>>>
>>> You can read the rest here:
>>>
> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/6/150434.sht ml?s=al&promo_code=3392-1
>>> Carry on,
>>> Rich
>>>
>>>
>
>
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| Re: OT: Wow, way to go France! [message #84140 is a reply to message #84120] |
Mon, 07 May 2007 21:54 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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Thanks for bringing that up, Rich. Talk about a "Swindle."
Sensationalism sells but that doesn't make it true. Let's take a look at
what we have here:
This from one of the scientists quoted in that film, Carl Wunsch:
"In the part of the "Swindle" film where I am describing the fact that
the ocean tends to expel carbon dioxide where it is warm, and to absorb
it where it is cold, my intent was to explain that warming the ocean
could be dangerous---because it is such a gigantic reservoir of carbon.
By its placement in the film, it appears that I am saying that since
carbon dioxide exists in the ocean in such large quantities, human
influence must not be very important --- diametrically opposite to the
point I was making --- which is that global warming is both real and
threatening in many different ways, some unexpected.
Many of us feel an obligation to talk to the media---it's part of our
role as scientists, citizens, and educators. The subjects are
complicated, and it is easy to be misquoted or quoted out context. My
experience in the past is that these things do happen, but usually
inadvertently --- most reporters really do want to get it right.
Channel 4 now says they were making a film in a series of "polemics".
There is nothing in the communication we had (much of it on the
telephone or with the film crew on the day they were in Boston) that
suggested they were making a film that was one-sided, anti-educational,
and misleading. I took them at face value---clearly a great error. I
knew I had no control over the actual content, but it never occurred to
me that I was dealing with people who already had a reputation for
distortion and exaggeration."
Here is a debunking from the climate scientists at realclimate.org:
"On Thursday the 8th, the UK TV Channel 4 aired a programme titled "The
Great Global Warming Swindle". We were hoping for important revelations
and final proof that we have all been hornswoggled by the climate
Illuminati, but it just repeated the usual specious claims we hear all
the time. We feel swindled. Indeed we are not the only ones: Carl Wunsch
(who was a surprise addition to the cast) was apparently misled into
thinking this was going to be a balanced look at the issues (the
producers have a history of doing this), but who found himself put into
a very different context indeed [Update: a full letter from Wunsch
appears as comment 109 on this post]
So what did they have to say for themselves?
CO2 doesn't match the temperature record over the 20th C. True but not
relevant, because it isn't supposed to. The programme spent a long time
agonising over what they presented as a sharp temperature fall for 4
decades from 1940 to 1980 (incidentally their graph looks rather odd and
may have been carefully selected; on a more usual (and sourced!) plot
the "4 decades of cooling" is rather less evident). They presented this
as a major flaw in the theory, which is deeply deceptive, because as
they and their interviewees must know, the 40-70 cooling type period is
readily explained, in that the GCMs are quite happy to reproduce it, as
largely caused by sulphate aerosols. See this for a wiki-pic, for
example; or (all together now) the IPCC TAR SPM fig 4; or more
up-to-date AR4 fig 4. So... they are lying to us by omission.
The troposphere should warm faster than the sfc, say the models and
basic theory. As indeed it does - unless you're wedded to the
multiply-corrected Spencer+Christy version of the MSU series. Christy
(naturally enough) features in this section, though he seems to have
forgotten the US CCSP report, and the executive summary which he
authored says Previously reported discrepancies between the amount of
warming near the surface and higher in the atmosphere have been used to
challenge the reliability of climate models and the reality of human
induced global warming. Specifically, surface data showed substantial
global-average warming, while early versions of satellite and radiosonde
data showed little or no warming above the surface. This significant
discrepancy no longer exists because errors in the satellite and
radiosonde data have been identified and corrected. New data sets have
also been developed that do not show such discrepancies. See-also
previous RC posts.
Temperature leads CO2 by 800 years in the ice cores. Not quite as true
as they said, but basically correct; however they misinterpret it. The
way they said this you would have thought that T and CO2 are
anti-correlated; but if you overlay the full 400/800 kyr of ice core
record, you can't even see the lag because its so small. The correct
interpretation of this is well known: that there is a T-CO2 feedback:
see RC again for more.
All the previous parts of the programme were leading up to "so if it
isn't CO2, what is it?" to which their answer is "solar". The section
was curiously weak, and largely lead by pictures of people on beaches.
It was somewhat surprising that they didn't feature Svensmark at all;
other stuff we've commented on before. Note that the graph they used as
"proof" of the excellent solar-T connection turns out to have some
problems: see figure 1c of Damon and Laut.
Along the way the programme ticked off most of the other obligatory
skeptic talking points: even down to Medieval English vineyards and that
old favourite, volcanoes emitting more CO2 than humans.
It ended with politics, with a segment blaming the lack of African
development on the environmental movement. We don't want to get into the
politics, but should point out what the programme didn't: that Kyoto
exempts developing nations."
Keeping it real is a very good idea. So it's best to look at the science
and go from there.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
Rich Lamanna wrote:
> Jamie and the rest of you Parisites, here's another view regarding the
> global warming polemic, ideology, religion and orthodoxy. These scientists
> were involved with the IPCC's report, but dissociated themselves with the
> same report when blatant omissions and mistruths were put forth by the IPCC.
> They scientifically disprove that CO2 is the cause for temperature change.
> Before you all jump out of your skin and shout, "2500 top scientists are on
> the IPCC panel and therefore it can't be wrong", you really should watch
> this with an open mind. You will, if you have an shred of rational, logical
> reasoning, question the present hysteria over the global warming debate.
>
> http://www.jonhs.net/freemovies/great_global_warming_swindle .htm
>
> Just keeping it real,
> Rich
>
> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:463f4b03$1@linux...
>> Hey Neil, Sarkozy is in the news right now and his comment caught my
>> eye. I think his perspective on global warming is worth sharing.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>> Neil wrote:
>>> Whaddya have a search engine portal permanently set to the
>>> term "global warming" or something?
>>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>> Sarkozy on global warming:
>>>>
>>>> "a great nation like the United States has the duty not to oppose the
>>>> fight against global warming, but to lead that battle, because what is
>>>> at stake is the destiny of mankind."
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> -Jamie
>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rich Lamanna wrote:
>>>>> France Elects a Thatcherite President
>>>>> Kenneth R. Timmerman
>>>>> Monday, May 7, 2007
>>>>> Newsmax.com
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday France elected a pro-American, conservative named Nicolas
> Sarkozy
>>>>> as its new president.
>>>>>
>>>>> The 52-year-old who beat back by 10 percentage points his Socialist
> rival,
>>>>> promises an unabashed Thatcherite agenda for France.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sarkozy also replaces the embattled Jacques Chirac, a relic from an
> earlier
>>>>> age of French politics, who made anti-Americanism his hallmark.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sarkozy campaigned on a platform of sweeping reforms, pledging to
> dismantle
>>>>> large portions of the social welfare state and to make France
> competitive
>>> on
>>>>> world markets again.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can read the rest here:
>>>>>
> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/6/150434.sht ml?s=al&promo_code=3392-1
>>>>> Carry on,
>>>>> Rich
>>>>>
>>>>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Wow, way to go France! [message #84151 is a reply to message #84072] |
Tue, 08 May 2007 01:44 |
Sarah
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Jeez, some conservative he turned out to be. I want my money back. Er . .
.. I mean . . .
S
"Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:463f3746$1@linux...
>
> Sarkozy on global warming:
>
> "a great nation like the United States has the duty not to oppose the
> fight against global warming, but to lead that battle, because what is at
> stake is the destiny of mankind."
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
> Rich Lamanna wrote:
>> France Elects a Thatcherite President
>> Kenneth R. Timmerman
>> Monday, May 7, 2007
>> Newsmax.com
>>
>> On Sunday France elected a pro-American, conservative named Nicolas
>> Sarkozy
>> as its new president.
>>
>> The 52-year-old who beat back by 10 percentage points his Socialist
>> rival,
>> promises an unabashed Thatcherite agenda for France.
>>
>> Sarkozy also replaces the embattled Jacques Chirac, a relic from an
>> earlier
>> age of French politics, who made anti-Americanism his hallmark.
>>
>> Sarkozy campaigned on a platform of sweeping reforms, pledging to
>> dismantle
>> large portions of the social welfare state and to make France competitive
>> on
>> world markets again.
>>
>> You can read the rest here:
>> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/6/150434.sht ml?s=al&promo_code=3392-1
>>
>> Carry on,
>> Rich
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Wow, way to go France! [message #84152 is a reply to message #84120] |
Tue, 08 May 2007 01:49 |
Sarah
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Haven't we already been through this one? Isn't this Durkin guy a
well-known and questionably honest anti-environmentalist who's being sued by
some of scientists he used in the film for misleading editing of their
views? Rings a bell somewhere back there . . .
S
"Rich Lamanna" <richard.lamanna@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:463fc561@linux...
> Jamie and the rest of you Parisites, here's another view regarding the
> global warming polemic, ideology, religion and orthodoxy. These scientists
> were involved with the IPCC's report, but dissociated themselves with the
> same report when blatant omissions and mistruths were put forth by the
> IPCC.
> They scientifically disprove that CO2 is the cause for temperature change.
> Before you all jump out of your skin and shout, "2500 top scientists are
> on
> the IPCC panel and therefore it can't be wrong", you really should watch
> this with an open mind. You will, if you have an shred of rational,
> logical
> reasoning, question the present hysteria over the global warming debate.
>
> http://www.jonhs.net/freemovies/great_global_warming_swindle .htm
>
> Just keeping it real,
> Rich
>
> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:463f4b03$1@linux...
>>
>> Hey Neil, Sarkozy is in the news right now and his comment caught my
>> eye. I think his perspective on global warming is worth sharing.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>> Neil wrote:
>> > Whaddya have a search engine portal permanently set to the
>> > term "global warming" or something?
>>
>> > Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>> >> Sarkozy on global warming:
>> >>
>> >> "a great nation like the United States has the duty not to oppose the
>> >> fight against global warming, but to lead that battle, because what is
>> >> at stake is the destiny of mankind."
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> -Jamie
>> >> www.JamieKrutz.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Rich Lamanna wrote:
>> >>> France Elects a Thatcherite President
>> >>> Kenneth R. Timmerman
>> >>> Monday, May 7, 2007
>> >>> Newsmax.com
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sunday France elected a pro-American, conservative named Nicolas
> Sarkozy
>> >>> as its new president.
>> >>>
>> >>> The 52-year-old who beat back by 10 percentage points his Socialist
> rival,
>> >>> promises an unabashed Thatcherite agenda for France.
>> >>>
>> >>> Sarkozy also replaces the embattled Jacques Chirac, a relic from an
> earlier
>> >>> age of French politics, who made anti-Americanism his hallmark.
>> >>>
>> >>> Sarkozy campaigned on a platform of sweeping reforms, pledging to
> dismantle
>> >>> large portions of the social welfare state and to make France
> competitive
>> > on
>> >>> world markets again.
>> >>>
>> >>> You can read the rest here:
>> >>>
> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/6/150434.sht ml?s=al&promo_code=3392-1
>> >>>
>> >>> Carry on,
>> >>> Rich
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Wow, way to go France! [message #84155 is a reply to message #84152] |
Tue, 08 May 2007 06:40 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Nope. That is the smear campaign, not the facts. There is some
dispute, many challenges remain and have been strengthened since the
movie.
Besides, the prejudice in what you said is clear. How do you know that
someone who questions the current orthodoxy is an anti-environmentalist?
http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1945
The real scary thing for the Gore-ites is the ongoing research into
climate change on Mars... It seems to be a parallel to our own. If that
is the case, humans are not the cause.
DC
"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>Haven't we already been through this one? Isn't this Durkin guy a
>well-known and questionably honest anti-environmentalist who's being sued
by
>some of scientists he used in the film for misleading editing of their
>views? Rings a bell somewhere back there . . .
>
>S
>
>
>
>"Rich Lamanna" <richard.lamanna@verizon.net> wrote in message
>news:463fc561@linux...
>> Jamie and the rest of you Parisites, here's another view regarding the
>> global warming polemic, ideology, religion and orthodoxy. These scientists
>> were involved with the IPCC's report, but dissociated themselves with
the
>> same report when blatant omissions and mistruths were put forth by the
>> IPCC.
>> They scientifically disprove that CO2 is the cause for temperature change.
>> Before you all jump out of your skin and shout, "2500 top scientists are
>> on
>> the IPCC panel and therefore it can't be wrong", you really should watch
>> this with an open mind. You will, if you have an shred of rational,
>> logical
>> reasoning, question the present hysteria over the global warming debate.
>>
>> http://www.jonhs.net/freemovies/great_global_warming_swindle .htm
>>
>> Just keeping it real,
>> Rich
>>
>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:463f4b03$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Hey Neil, Sarkozy is in the news right now and his comment caught my
>>> eye. I think his perspective on global warming is worth sharing.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> -Jamie
>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>
>>>
>>> Neil wrote:
>>> > Whaddya have a search engine portal permanently set to the
>>> > term "global warming" or something?
>>>
>>> > Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>> >> Sarkozy on global warming:
>>> >>
>>> >> "a great nation like the United States has the duty not to oppose
the
>>> >> fight against global warming, but to lead that battle, because what
is
>>> >> at stake is the destiny of mankind."
>>> >>
>>> >> Cheers,
>>> >> -Jamie
>>> >> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Rich Lamanna wrote:
>>> >>> France Elects a Thatcherite President
>>> >>> Kenneth R. Timmerman
>>> >>> Monday, May 7, 2007
>>> >>> Newsmax.com
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Sunday France elected a pro-American, conservative named Nicolas
>> Sarkozy
>>> >>> as its new president.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The 52-year-old who beat back by 10 percentage points his Socialist
>> rival,
>>> >>> promises an unabashed Thatcherite agenda for France.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Sarkozy also replaces the embattled Jacques Chirac, a relic from
an
>> earlier
>>> >>> age of French politics, who made anti-Americanism his hallmark.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Sarkozy campaigned on a platform of sweeping reforms, pledging to
>> dismantle
>>> >>> large portions of the social welfare state and to make France
>> competitive
>>> > on
>>> >>> world markets again.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> You can read the rest here:
>>> >>>
>> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/6/150434.sht ml?s=al&promo_code=3392-1
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Carry on,
>>> >>> Rich
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >
>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Wow, way to go France! [message #84158 is a reply to message #84155] |
Tue, 08 May 2007 07:38 |
gene lennon
Messages: 565
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Thanks DC. My day was promising to be bland. Now I will be chuckling to myself
for hours.
Gene
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>Nope. That is the smear campaign, not the facts. There is some
>dispute, many challenges remain and have been strengthened since the
>movie.
>
>Besides, the prejudice in what you said is clear. How do you know that
>someone who questions the current orthodoxy is an anti-environmentalist?
>
>http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1945
>
>The real scary thing for the Gore-ites is the ongoing research into
>climate change on Mars... It seems to be a parallel to our own. If that
>is the case, humans are not the cause.
>
>DC
>
>
>
>"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>Haven't we already been through this one? Isn't this Durkin guy a
>>well-known and questionably honest anti-environmentalist who's being sued
>by
>>some of scientists he used in the film for misleading editing of their
>>views? Rings a bell somewhere back there . . .
>>
>>S
>>
>>
>>
>>"Rich Lamanna" <richard.lamanna@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>news:463fc561@linux...
>>> Jamie and the rest of you Parisites, here's another view regarding the
>>> global warming polemic, ideology, religion and orthodoxy. These scientists
>>> were involved with the IPCC's report, but dissociated themselves with
>the
>>> same report when blatant omissions and mistruths were put forth by the
>
>>> IPCC.
>>> They scientifically disprove that CO2 is the cause for temperature change.
>>> Before you all jump out of your skin and shout, "2500 top scientists
are
>
>>> on
>>> the IPCC panel and therefore it can't be wrong", you really should watch
>>> this with an open mind. You will, if you have an shred of rational,
>>> logical
>>> reasoning, question the present hysteria over the global warming debate.
>>>
>>> http://www.jonhs.net/freemovies/great_global_warming_swindle .htm
>>>
>>> Just keeping it real,
>>> Rich
>>>
>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:463f4b03$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> Hey Neil, Sarkozy is in the news right now and his comment caught my
>>>> eye. I think his perspective on global warming is worth sharing.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> -Jamie
>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Neil wrote:
>>>> > Whaddya have a search engine portal permanently set to the
>>>> > term "global warming" or something?
>>>>
>>>> > Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>> >> Sarkozy on global warming:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> "a great nation like the United States has the duty not to oppose
>the
>>>> >> fight against global warming, but to lead that battle, because what
>is
>>>> >> at stake is the destiny of mankind."
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Cheers,
>>>> >> -Jamie
>>>> >> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Rich Lamanna wrote:
>>>> >>> France Elects a Thatcherite President
>>>> >>> Kenneth R. Timmerman
>>>> >>> Monday, May 7, 2007
>>>> >>> Newsmax.com
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On Sunday France elected a pro-American, conservative named Nicolas
>>> Sarkozy
>>>> >>> as its new president.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> The 52-year-old who beat back by 10 percentage points his Socialist
>>> rival,
>>>> >>> promises an unabashed Thatcherite agenda for France.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Sarkozy also replaces the embattled Jacques Chirac, a relic from
>an
>>> earlier
>>>> >>> age of French politics, who made anti-Americanism his hallmark.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Sarkozy campaigned on a platform of sweeping reforms, pledging to
>>> dismantle
>>>> >>> large portions of the social welfare state and to make France
>>> competitive
>>>> > on
>>>> >>> world markets again.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> You can read the rest here:
>>>> >>>
>>> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/6/150434.sht ml?s=al&promo_code=3392-1
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Carry on,
>>>> >>> Rich
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Wow, way to go France! [message #84160 is a reply to message #84158] |
Tue, 08 May 2007 07:56 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
You are welcome. Aren't you glad we have DAW's now? In the old days
we would be spending our time aligning tape machines and cleaning
patch bays, and would not have the time to entertain ourselves jabbering
over stuff like this!
Excuse me, I need to go repair my disc permissions...
DC
"Gene Lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote:
>
>Thanks DC. My day was promising to be bland. Now I will be chuckling to
myself
>for hours.
>Gene
>
>
>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>
>>Nope. That is the smear campaign, not the facts. There is some
>>dispute, many challenges remain and have been strengthened since the
>>movie.
>>
>>Besides, the prejudice in what you said is clear. How do you know that
>>someone who questions the current orthodoxy is an anti-environmentalist?
>>
>>http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1945
>>
>>The real scary thing for the Gore-ites is the ongoing research into
>>climate change on Mars... It seems to be a parallel to our own. If that
>>is the case, humans are not the cause.
>>
>>DC
>>
>>
>>
>>"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>>Haven't we already been through this one? Isn't this Durkin guy a
>>>well-known and questionably honest anti-environmentalist who's being sued
>>by
>>>some of scientists he used in the film for misleading editing of their
>
>>>views? Rings a bell somewhere back there . . .
>>>
>>>S
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Rich Lamanna" <richard.lamanna@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>news:463fc561@linux...
>>>> Jamie and the rest of you Parisites, here's another view regarding the
>>>> global warming polemic, ideology, religion and orthodoxy. These scientists
>>>> were involved with the IPCC's report, but dissociated themselves with
>>the
>>>> same report when blatant omissions and mistruths were put forth by the
>>
>>>> IPCC.
>>>> They scientifically disprove that CO2 is the cause for temperature change.
>>>> Before you all jump out of your skin and shout, "2500 top scientists
>are
>>
>>>> on
>>>> the IPCC panel and therefore it can't be wrong", you really should watch
>>>> this with an open mind. You will, if you have an shred of rational,
>>>> logical
>>>> reasoning, question the present hysteria over the global warming debate.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.jonhs.net/freemovies/great_global_warming_swindle .htm
>>>>
>>>> Just keeping it real,
>>>> Rich
>>>>
>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:463f4b03$1@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey Neil, Sarkozy is in the news right now and his comment caught my
>>>>> eye. I think his perspective on global warming is worth sharing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Neil wrote:
>>>>> > Whaddya have a search engine portal permanently set to the
>>>>> > term "global warming" or something?
>>>>>
>>>>> > Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>> >> Sarkozy on global warming:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> "a great nation like the United States has the duty not to oppose
>>the
>>>>> >> fight against global warming, but to lead that battle, because what
>>is
>>>>> >> at stake is the destiny of mankind."
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Cheers,
>>>>> >> -Jamie
>>>>> >> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Rich Lamanna wrote:
>>>>> >>> France Elects a Thatcherite President
>>>>> >>> Kenneth R. Timmerman
>>>>> >>> Monday, May 7, 2007
>>>>> >>> Newsmax.com
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> On Sunday France elected a pro-American, conservative named Nicolas
>>>> Sarkozy
>>>>> >>> as its new president.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> The 52-year-old who beat back by 10 percentage points his Socialist
>>>> rival,
>>>>> >>> promises an unabashed Thatcherite agenda for France.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Sarkozy also replaces the embattled Jacques Chirac, a relic from
>>an
>>>> earlier
>>>>> >>> age of French politics, who made anti-Americanism his hallmark.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Sarkozy campaigned on a platform of sweeping reforms, pledging
to
>>>> dismantle
>>>>> >>> large portions of the social welfare state and to make France
>>>> competitive
>>>>> > on
>>>>> >>> world markets again.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> You can read the rest here:
>>>>> >>>
>>>> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/6/150434.sht ml?s=al&promo_code=3392-1
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Carry on,
>>>>> >>> Rich
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Wow, way to go France! [message #84163 is a reply to message #84160] |
Tue, 08 May 2007 08:10 |
gene lennon
Messages: 565
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
You are right of course, we are just jabbering, but to be technically correct,
I am overdue to clean my patchbay.
Actually, if we had a dependable source for tape…I seriously miss tape.
I have retired my 2 tracks to storage :-(
Gene
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>You are welcome. Aren't you glad we have DAW's now? In the old days
>we would be spending our time aligning tape machines and cleaning
>patch bays, and would not have the time to entertain ourselves jabbering
>over stuff like this!
>
>Excuse me, I need to go repair my disc permissions...
>
>DC
>
>"Gene Lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote:
>>
>>Thanks DC. My day was promising to be bland. Now I will be chuckling to
>myself
>>for hours.
>>Gene
>>
>>
>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Nope. That is the smear campaign, not the facts. There is some
>>>dispute, many challenges remain and have been strengthened since the
>>>movie.
>>>
>>>Besides, the prejudice in what you said is clear. How do you know that
>>>someone who questions the current orthodoxy is an anti-environmentalist?
>>>
>>>http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1945
>>>
>>>The real scary thing for the Gore-ites is the ongoing research into
>>>climate change on Mars... It seems to be a parallel to our own. If
that
>>>is the case, humans are not the cause.
>>>
>>>DC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>>>Haven't we already been through this one? Isn't this Durkin guy a
>>>>well-known and questionably honest anti-environmentalist who's being
sued
>>>by
>>>>some of scientists he used in the film for misleading editing of their
>>
>>>>views? Rings a bell somewhere back there . . .
>>>>
>>>>S
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Rich Lamanna" <richard.lamanna@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:463fc561@linux...
>>>>> Jamie and the rest of you Parisites, here's another view regarding
the
>>>>> global warming polemic, ideology, religion and orthodoxy. These scientists
>>>>> were involved with the IPCC's report, but dissociated themselves with
>>>the
>>>>> same report when blatant omissions and mistruths were put forth by
the
>>>
>>>>> IPCC.
>>>>> They scientifically disprove that CO2 is the cause for temperature
change.
>>>>> Before you all jump out of your skin and shout, "2500 top scientists
>>are
>>>
>>>>> on
>>>>> the IPCC panel and therefore it can't be wrong", you really should
watch
>>>>> this with an open mind. You will, if you have an shred of rational,
>
>>>>> logical
>>>>> reasoning, question the present hysteria over the global warming debate.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.jonhs.net/freemovies/great_global_warming_swindle .htm
>>>>>
>>>>> Just keeping it real,
>>>>> Rich
>>>>>
>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:463f4b03$1@linux...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Neil, Sarkozy is in the news right now and his comment caught
my
>>>>>> eye. I think his perspective on global warming is worth sharing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Neil wrote:
>>>>>> > Whaddya have a search engine portal permanently set to the
>>>>>> > term "global warming" or something?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>> >> Sarkozy on global warming:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> "a great nation like the United States has the duty not to oppose
>>>the
>>>>>> >> fight against global warming, but to lead that battle, because
what
>>>is
>>>>>> >> at stake is the destiny of mankind."
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Cheers,
>>>>>> >> -Jamie
>>>>>> >> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Rich Lamanna wrote:
>>>>>> >>> France Elects a Thatcherite President
>>>>>> >>> Kenneth R. Timmerman
>>>>>> >>> Monday, May 7, 2007
>>>>>> >>> Newsmax.com
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> On Sunday France elected a pro-American, conservative named Nicolas
>>>>> Sarkozy
>>>>>> >>> as its new president.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> The 52-year-old who beat back by 10 percentage points his Socialist
>>>>> rival,
>>>>>> >>> promises an unabashed Thatcherite agenda for France.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Sarkozy also replaces the embattled Jacques Chirac, a relic from
>>>an
>>>>> earlier
>>>>>> >>> age of French politics, who made anti-Americanism his hallmark.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Sarkozy campaigned on a platform of sweeping reforms, pledging
>to
>>>>> dismantle
>>>>>> >>> large portions of the social welfare state and to make France
>>>>> competitive
>>>>>> > on
>>>>>> >>> world markets again.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> You can read the rest here:
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/6/150434.sht ml?s=al&promo_code=3392-1
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Carry on,
>>>>>> >>> Rich
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Wow, way to go France! [message #84165 is a reply to message #84155] |
Tue, 08 May 2007 08:51 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Actually Don, there is a smear campaign going the other way, financed by
special interest money (largely Exxon). Meanwhile the facts and
evidence are with the scientific consensus (which is why it is a
scientific consensus). You should really read the science.
Unless you have a predisposition to either distrust science or believe
things are fine, in which case you can ally yourself with a very few
dissenting scientists (there are always a few in the minority on any
subject), a cadre of special interest PR folks working diligently to
extend Exxon profits, truth be damned, and a novelist.
But you'll be hard pressed to find solid peer-reviewed science to back
them up. It's largely speculative, even desperate rationalizations
amplified by special interest money that use repetition and talk radio
to sound credible but are not. It's a house of cards built on
unpublished and unsupported theories, roundly debunked by mainstream
science based on facts on the ground and in the atmosphere.
A better path is to acknowledge the trumped up "controversy" for what it
is, but then listen to what scientists in multiple fields have actually
published in peer-reviewed journals. See how the evidence lines up. And
draw your conclusions from there.
If you don't mind reading a matter-of-fact overview, I recommend the
Charles Keller paper and its update linked here as a non-hyped way to start:
http://www.thescientificworld.com/SCIENTIFICWORLDJOURNAL/mai n/Home.asp
As for the latest Mars argument, do some research on that one and you'll
find it's another red herring. An apples/oranges comparison that doesn't
wash.
Finally, if the name Gore makes you see red, then simply ignore Al. This
is not a partisan issue and it's not about any one guy. If you can't
listen to a Democrat on the subject, listen to the many Republicans who
have read the science and are getting to work on the problem. There's a
long, long list of Republican scientists, business leaders and elected
officials who recognize the problem and are getting to work on it.
Which leads us back to the topic of this thread: the new conservative
French President Nicolas Sarkozy said in his acceptance speech that he
will make global warming a top priority. For all we know he may hate Al
as much as you do. But he recognizes the problem of global warming and
is making it a priority.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
DC wrote:
> Nope. That is the smear campaign, not the facts. There is some
> dispute, many challenges remain and have been strengthened since the
> movie.
>
> Besides, the prejudice in what you said is clear. How do you know that
> someone who questions the current orthodoxy is an anti-environmentalist?
>
> http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1945
>
> The real scary thing for the Gore-ites is the ongoing research into
> climate change on Mars... It seems to be a parallel to our own. If that
> is the case, humans are not the cause.
>
> DC
>
>
>
> "Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>> Haven't we already been through this one? Isn't this Durkin guy a
>> well-known and questionably honest anti-environmentalist who's being sued
> by
>> some of scientists he used in the film for misleading editing of their
>> views? Rings a bell somewhere back there . . .
>>
>> S
>>
>>
>>
>> "Rich Lamanna" <richard.lamanna@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:463fc561@linux...
>>> Jamie and the rest of you Parisites, here's another view regarding the
>>> global warming polemic, ideology, religion and orthodoxy. These scientists
>>> were involved with the IPCC's report, but dissociated themselves with
> the
>>> same report when blatant omissions and mistruths were put forth by the
>
>>> IPCC.
>>> They scientifically disprove that CO2 is the cause for temperature change.
>>> Before you all jump out of your skin and shout, "2500 top scientists are
>
>>> on
>>> the IPCC panel and therefore it can't be wrong", you really should watch
>>> this with an open mind. You will, if you have an shred of rational,
>>> logical
>>> reasoning, question the present hysteria over the global warming debate.
>>>
>>> http://www.jonhs.net/freemovies/great_global_warming_swindle .htm
>>>
>>> Just keeping it real,
>>> Rich
>>>
>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:463f4b03$1@linux...
>>>> Hey Neil, Sarkozy is in the news right now and his comment caught my
>>>> eye. I think his perspective on global warming is worth sharing.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> -Jamie
>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Neil wrote:
>>>>> Whaddya have a search engine portal permanently set to the
>>>>> term "global warming" or something?
>>>>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Sarkozy on global warming:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "a great nation like the United States has the duty not to oppose
> the
>>>>>> fight against global warming, but to lead that battle, because what
> is
>>>>>> at stake is the destiny of mankind."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rich Lamanna wrote:
>>>>>>> France Elects a Thatcherite President
>>>>>>> Kenneth R. Timmerman
>>>>>>> Monday, May 7, 2007
>>>>>>> Newsmax.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sunday France elected a pro-American, conservative named Nicolas
>>> Sarkozy
>>>>>>> as its new president.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The 52-year-old who beat back by 10 percentage points his Socialist
>>> rival,
>>>>>>> promises an unabashed Thatcherite agenda for France.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sarkozy also replaces the embattled Jacques Chirac, a relic from
> an
>>> earlier
>>>>>>> age of French politics, who made anti-Americanism his hallmark.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sarkozy campaigned on a platform of sweeping reforms, pledging to
>>> dismantle
>>>>>>> large portions of the social welfare state and to make France
>>> competitive
>>>>> on
>>>>>>> world markets again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can read the rest here:
>>>>>>>
>>> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/6/150434.sht ml?s=al&promo_code=3392-1
>>>>>>> Carry on,
>>>>>>> Rich
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Wow, way to go France! [message #84166 is a reply to message #84163] |
Tue, 08 May 2007 09:06 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Quantegy is gone aren't they? Is BASF still around?
Who would have thought..
DC
"Gene Lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote:
>
>You are right of course, we are just jabbering, but to be technically correct,
>I am overdue to clean my patchbay.
>
>Actually, if we had a dependable source for tape…I seriously miss tape.
>
>I have retired my 2 tracks to storage :-(
>
>Gene
>
>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>
>>You are welcome. Aren't you glad we have DAW's now? In the old days
>>we would be spending our time aligning tape machines and cleaning
>>patch bays, and would not have the time to entertain ourselves jabbering
>>over stuff like this!
>>
>>Excuse me, I need to go repair my disc permissions...
>>
>>DC
>>
>>"Gene Lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Thanks DC. My day was promising to be bland. Now I will be chuckling to
>>myself
>>>for hours.
>>>Gene
>>>
>>>
>>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Nope. That is the smear campaign, not the facts. There is some
>>>>dispute, many challenges remain and have been strengthened since the
>>>>movie.
>>>>
>>>>Besides, the prejudice in what you said is clear. How do you know that
>>>>someone who questions the current orthodoxy is an anti-environmentalist?
>>>>
>>>>http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1945
>>>>
>>>>The real scary thing for the Gore-ites is the ongoing research into
>>>>climate change on Mars... It seems to be a parallel to our own. If
>that
>>>>is the case, humans are not the cause.
>>>>
>>>>DC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>>>>Haven't we already been through this one? Isn't this Durkin guy a
>>>>>well-known and questionably honest anti-environmentalist who's being
>sued
>>>>by
>>>>>some of scientists he used in the film for misleading editing of their
>>>
>>>>>views? Rings a bell somewhere back there . . .
>>>>>
>>>>>S
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Rich Lamanna" <richard.lamanna@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:463fc561@linux...
>>>>>> Jamie and the rest of you Parisites, here's another view regarding
>the
>>>>>> global warming polemic, ideology, religion and orthodoxy. These scientists
>>>>>> were involved with the IPCC's report, but dissociated themselves with
>>>>the
>>>>>> same report when blatant omissions and mistruths were put forth by
>the
>>>>
>>>>>> IPCC.
>>>>>> They scientifically disprove that CO2 is the cause for temperature
>change.
>>>>>> Before you all jump out of your skin and shout, "2500 top scientists
>>>are
>>>>
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> the IPCC panel and therefore it can't be wrong", you really should
>watch
>>>>>> this with an open mind. You will, if you have an shred of rational,
>>
>>>>>> logical
>>>>>> reasoning, question the present hysteria over the global warming debate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.jonhs.net/freemovies/great_global_warming_swindle .htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just keeping it real,
>>>>>> Rich
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:463f4b03$1@linux...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey Neil, Sarkozy is in the news right now and his comment caught
>my
>>>>>>> eye. I think his perspective on global warming is worth sharing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Neil wrote:
>>>>>>> > Whaddya have a search engine portal permanently set to the
>>>>>>> > term "global warming" or something?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> >> Sarkozy on global warming:
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> "a great nation like the United States has the duty not to oppose
>>>>the
>>>>>>> >> fight against global warming, but to lead that battle, because
>what
>>>>is
>>>>>>> >> at stake is the destiny of mankind."
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Cheers,
>>>>>>> >> -Jamie
>>>>>>> >> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Rich Lamanna wrote:
>>>>>>> >>> France Elects a Thatcherite President
>>>>>>> >>> Kenneth R. Timmerman
>>>>>>> >>> Monday, May 7, 2007
>>>>>>> >>> Newsmax.com
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> On Sunday France elected a pro-American, conservative named Nicolas
>>>>>> Sarkozy
>>>>>>> >>> as its new president.
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> The 52-year-old who beat back by 10 percentage points his Socialist
>>>>>> rival,
>>>>>>> >>> promises an unabashed Thatcherite agenda for France.
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> Sarkozy also replaces the embattled Jacques Chirac, a relic from
>>>>an
>>>>>> earlier
>>>>>>> >>> age of French politics, who made anti-Americanism his hallmark.
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> Sarkozy campaigned on a platform of sweeping reforms, pledging
>>to
>>>>>> dismantle
>>>>>>> >>> large portions of the social welfare state and to make France
>>>>>> competitive
>>>>>>> > on
>>>>>>> >>> world markets again.
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> You can read the rest here:
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/6/150434.sht ml?s=al&promo_code=3392-1
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> Carry on,
>>>>>>> >>> Rich
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Wow, way to go France! [message #84194 is a reply to message #84140] |
Tue, 08 May 2007 21:20 |
Rich Lamanna
Messages: 316
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Jamie, cut the crap, man. If you're trying to say that everything in that
video is bunk you're just completely biased. These are real scientists
putting their names on the line. Of utmost relevance is that solar activity
has a direct correlation with climatic temperature increases. Global warming
is occurring obviously, but there is little evidence to support human CO2
production as the source. If you're trying to say that these disagreeing
scientists and experts such as Professor Phillip Scott: Dept. of
Biogeography, U. of London, Prof. Patrick Michaels: Dept. of Env. Sci. U. of
VA, Nigel Caulder: former editor for the New Scientist, Patrick Moore:
co-founder of Greenpeace, Prof. Richard Lindzen: IPCC & MIT, Prof. Paul
Reiter: IPCC & Pasteur Inst. Paris, Prof. Ian Clark: Dept. of Earth Science,
U. of Ottowa, Prof. John Christy: Lead author of IPCC report, to name a few
are full of it, then you've got balls. They all disagree with the panel's
findings. They weren't coerced or misled, that's nonsense. Scientists may
disagree but to disregard the opposing argument as non science is just plain
non scientific and fascistic.
Still just keeping it real,
Rich
"Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:464003f3@linux...
>
> Thanks for bringing that up, Rich. Talk about a "Swindle."
> Sensationalism sells but that doesn't make it true. Let's take a look at
> what we have here:
>
> This from one of the scientists quoted in that film, Carl Wunsch:
>
>
> "In the part of the "Swindle" film where I am describing the fact that
> the ocean tends to expel carbon dioxide where it is warm, and to absorb
> it where it is cold, my intent was to explain that warming the ocean
> could be dangerous---because it is such a gigantic reservoir of carbon.
> By its placement in the film, it appears that I am saying that since
> carbon dioxide exists in the ocean in such large quantities, human
> influence must not be very important --- diametrically opposite to the
> point I was making --- which is that global warming is both real and
> threatening in many different ways, some unexpected.
>
> Many of us feel an obligation to talk to the media---it's part of our
> role as scientists, citizens, and educators. The subjects are
> complicated, and it is easy to be misquoted or quoted out context. My
> experience in the past is that these things do happen, but usually
> inadvertently --- most reporters really do want to get it right.
>
> Channel 4 now says they were making a film in a series of "polemics".
> There is nothing in the communication we had (much of it on the
> telephone or with the film crew on the day they were in Boston) that
> suggested they were making a film that was one-sided, anti-educational,
> and misleading. I took them at face value---clearly a great error. I
> knew I had no control over the actual content, but it never occurred to
> me that I was dealing with people who already had a reputation for
> distortion and exaggeration."
>
>
> Here is a debunking from the climate scientists at realclimate.org:
>
>
> "On Thursday the 8th, the UK TV Channel 4 aired a programme titled "The
> Great Global Warming Swindle". We were hoping for important revelations
> and final proof that we have all been hornswoggled by the climate
> Illuminati, but it just repeated the usual specious claims we hear all
> the time. We feel swindled. Indeed we are not the only ones: Carl Wunsch
> (who was a surprise addition to the cast) was apparently misled into
> thinking this was going to be a balanced look at the issues (the
> producers have a history of doing this), but who found himself put into
> a very different context indeed [Update: a full letter from Wunsch
> appears as comment 109 on this post]
>
> So what did they have to say for themselves?
>
> CO2 doesn't match the temperature record over the 20th C. True but not
> relevant, because it isn't supposed to. The programme spent a long time
> agonising over what they presented as a sharp temperature fall for 4
> decades from 1940 to 1980 (incidentally their graph looks rather odd and
> may have been carefully selected; on a more usual (and sourced!) plot
> the "4 decades of cooling" is rather less evident). They presented this
> as a major flaw in the theory, which is deeply deceptive, because as
> they and their interviewees must know, the 40-70 cooling type period is
> readily explained, in that the GCMs are quite happy to reproduce it, as
> largely caused by sulphate aerosols. See this for a wiki-pic, for
> example; or (all together now) the IPCC TAR SPM fig 4; or more
> up-to-date AR4 fig 4. So... they are lying to us by omission.
>
> The troposphere should warm faster than the sfc, say the models and
> basic theory. As indeed it does - unless you're wedded to the
> multiply-corrected Spencer+Christy version of the MSU series. Christy
> (naturally enough) features in this section, though he seems to have
> forgotten the US CCSP report, and the executive summary which he
> authored says Previously reported discrepancies between the amount of
> warming near the surface and higher in the atmosphere have been used to
> challenge the reliability of climate models and the reality of human
> induced global warming. Specifically, surface data showed substantial
> global-average warming, while early versions of satellite and radiosonde
> data showed little or no warming above the surface. This significant
> discrepancy no longer exists because errors in the satellite and
> radiosonde data have been identified and corrected. New data sets have
> also been developed that do not show such discrepancies. See-also
> previous RC posts.
>
> Temperature leads CO2 by 800 years in the ice cores. Not quite as true
> as they said, but basically correct; however they misinterpret it. The
> way they said this you would have thought that T and CO2 are
> anti-correlated; but if you overlay the full 400/800 kyr of ice core
> record, you can't even see the lag because its so small. The correct
> interpretation of this is well known: that there is a T-CO2 feedback:
> see RC again for more.
>
> All the previous parts of the programme were leading up to "so if it
> isn't CO2, what is it?" to which their answer is "solar". The section
> was curiously weak, and largely lead by pictures of people on beaches.
> It was somewhat surprising that they didn't feature Svensmark at all;
> other stuff we've commented on before. Note that the graph they used as
> "proof" of the excellent solar-T connection turns out to have some
> problems: see figure 1c of Damon and Laut.
>
> Along the way the programme ticked off most of the other obligatory
> skeptic talking points: even down to Medieval English vineyards and that
> old favourite, volcanoes emitting more CO2 than humans.
>
> It ended with politics, with a segment blaming the lack of African
> development on the environmental movement. We don't want to get into the
> politics, but should point out what the programme didn't: that Kyoto
> exempts developing nations."
>
>
> Keeping it real is a very good idea. So it's best to look at the science
> and go from there.
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>
> Rich Lamanna wrote:
> > Jamie and the rest of you Parisites, here's another view regarding the
> > global warming polemic, ideology, religion and orthodoxy. These
scientists
> > were involved with the IPCC's report, but dissociated themselves with
the
> > same report when blatant omissions and mistruths were put forth by the
IPCC.
> > They scientifically disprove that CO2 is the cause for temperature
change.
> > Before you all jump out of your skin and shout, "2500 top scientists are
on
> > the IPCC panel and therefore it can't be wrong", you really should watch
> > this with an open mind. You will, if you have an shred of rational,
logical
> > reasoning, question the present hysteria over the global warming debate.
> >
> > http://www.jonhs.net/freemovies/great_global_warming_swindle .htm
> >
> > Just keeping it real,
> > Rich
> >
> > "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
news:463f4b03$1@linux...
> >> Hey Neil, Sarkozy is in the news right now and his comment caught my
> >> eye. I think his perspective on global warming is worth sharing.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> -Jamie
> >> www.JamieKrutz.com
> >>
> >>
> >> Neil wrote:
> >>> Whaddya have a search engine portal permanently set to the
> >>> term "global warming" or something?
> >>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
> >>>> Sarkozy on global warming:
> >>>>
> >>>> "a great nation like the United States has the duty not to oppose the
> >>>> fight against global warming, but to lead that battle, because what
is
> >>>> at stake is the destiny of mankind."
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>> -Jamie
> >>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Rich Lamanna wrote:
> >>>>> France Elects a Thatcherite President
> >>>>> Kenneth R. Timmerman
> >>>>> Monday, May 7, 2007
> >>>>> Newsmax.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sunday France elected a pro-American, conservative named Nicolas
> > Sarkozy
> >>>>> as its new president.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The 52-year-old who beat back by 10 percentage points his Socialist
> > rival,
> >>>>> promises an unabashed Thatcherite agenda for France.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sarkozy also replaces the embattled Jacques Chirac, a relic from an
> > earlier
> >>>>> age of French politics, who made anti-Americanism his hallmark.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sarkozy campaigned on a platform of sweeping reforms, pledging to
> > dismantle
> >>>>> large portions of the social welfare state and to make France
> > competitive
> >>> on
> >>>>> world markets again.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You can read the rest here:
> >>>>>
> >
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/6/150434.sht ml?s=al&promo_code=3392-1
> >>>>> Carry on,
> >>>>> Rich
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >
> >
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT: Wow, way to go France! [message #84203 is a reply to message #84194] |
Tue, 08 May 2007 22:21 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hey, Rich, what I'm saying is crystal clear. The "Swindle" video is an
admitted polemic. An exercise in sensationalism. It is not an objective
look at the topic and shouldn't be taken as such.
Show me the data that supports the theory that the current warming spike
is caused by solar gain. To the contrary, there are measurements that
show there is NO such sudden increase from the sun to match our recent
rising earth average temperature.
OTOH, to claim there is little evidence that humans are contributing is
to ignore significant evidence.
I have to go with the evidence on this one. To keep it real is quite
literally to go with the evidence.
To expect that all scientist will agree completely is to miss the point
of science. Scientists constantly disagree on major and minor points.
Some of them are always going to be wrong or partly wrong, but they all
contribute by questioning the conclusions and, if they are serious,
putting them to the test with further studies.
Now, after decades of studies, there is sufficient data to support the
conclusions that A) there is measured global warming occurring now, B)
it's beyond what we would expect from known natural cycles and sources
and C) human contributions can account for a clear contribution.
Take a topic in science and you will likely be able to assemble a list
of scientists with varying credibility (like the one below) who have
large or small disagreements with the consensus. But look further and
you'll find a much, much longer list of scientists completely or mostly
agreeing with the consensus on human contributions to the current global
warming. If you want to hitch your position to an appeal to authority,
why limit yourself to the short list?
If you think it takes "balls" just to see the actual facts, then talk to
the Governator in CA who has already moved on global warming. If you
believe basing conclusions about our physical Earth on published science
is "biased" then I'll accept a bias toward reality.
At any rate, what matters is who is seeing most clearly. Who is working
from the data. Who has done the peer-reviewed studies. And where the
preponderance of evidence leads.
It leads to the mainstream consensus, that's how scientific consensus
forms. But this consensus is something the "Swindle" video seems to have
gone out of its way to misrepresent and ironically demonize. Even to the
extent of deliberately misrepresenting the views of at least one of the
scientists they interviewed. If you're going to call something crap, why
not start with that?
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
Rich Lamanna wrote:
> Jamie, cut the crap, man. If you're trying to say that everything in that
> video is bunk you're just completely biased. These are real scientists
> putting their names on the line. Of utmost relevance is that solar activity
> has a direct correlation with climatic temperature increases. Global warming
> is occurring obviously, but there is little evidence to support human CO2
> production as the source. If you're trying to say that these disagreeing
> scientists and experts such as Professor Phillip Scott: Dept. of
> Biogeography, U. of London, Prof. Patrick Michaels: Dept. of Env. Sci. U. of
> VA, Nigel Caulder: former editor for the New Scientist, Patrick Moore:
> co-founder of Greenpeace, Prof. Richard Lindzen: IPCC & MIT, Prof. Paul
> Reiter: IPCC & Pasteur Inst. Paris, Prof. Ian Clark: Dept. of Earth Science,
> U. of Ottowa, Prof. John Christy: Lead author of IPCC report, to name a few
> are full of it, then you've got balls. They all disagree with the panel's
> findings. They weren't coerced or misled, that's nonsense. Scientists may
> disagree but to disregard the opposing argument as non science is just plain
> non scientific and fascistic.
>
> Still just keeping it real,
> Rich
>
> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:464003f3@linux...
>> Thanks for bringing that up, Rich. Talk about a "Swindle."
>> Sensationalism sells but that doesn't make it true. Let's take a look at
>> what we have here:
>>
>> This from one of the scientists quoted in that film, Carl Wunsch:
>>
>>
>> "In the part of the "Swindle" film where I am describing the fact that
>> the ocean tends to expel carbon dioxide where it is warm, and to absorb
>> it where it is cold, my intent was to explain that warming the ocean
>> could be dangerous---because it is such a gigantic reservoir of carbon.
>> By its placement in the film, it appears that I am saying that since
>> carbon dioxide exists in the ocean in such large quantities, human
>> influence must not be very important --- diametrically opposite to the
>> point I was making --- which is that global warming is both real and
>> threatening in many different ways, some unexpected.
>>
>> Many of us feel an obligation to talk to the media---it's part of our
>> role as scientists, citizens, and educators. The subjects are
>> complicated, and it is easy to be misquoted or quoted out context. My
>> experience in the past is that these things do happen, but usually
>> inadvertently --- most reporters really do want to get it right.
>>
>> Channel 4 now says they were making a film in a series of "polemics".
>> There is nothing in the communication we had (much of it on the
>> telephone or with the film crew on the day they were in Boston) that
>> suggested they were making a film that was one-sided, anti-educational,
>> and misleading. I took them at face value---clearly a great error. I
>> knew I had no control over the actual content, but it never occurred to
>> me that I was dealing with people who already had a reputation for
>> distortion and exaggeration."
>>
>>
>> Here is a debunking from the climate scientists at realclimate.org:
>>
>>
>> "On Thursday the 8th, the UK TV Channel 4 aired a programme titled "The
>> Great Global Warming Swindle". We were hoping for important revelations
>> and final proof that we have all been hornswoggled by the climate
>> Illuminati, but it just repeated the usual specious claims we hear all
>> the time. We feel swindled. Indeed we are not the only ones: Carl Wunsch
>> (who was a surprise addition to the cast) was apparently misled into
>> thinking this was going to be a balanced look at the issues (the
>> producers have a history of doing this), but who found himself put into
>> a very different context indeed [Update: a full letter from Wunsch
>> appears as comment 109 on this post]
>>
>> So what did they have to say for themselves?
>>
>> CO2 doesn't match the temperature record over the 20th C. True but not
>> relevant, because it isn't supposed to. The programme spent a long time
>> agonising over what they presented as a sharp temperature fall for 4
>> decades from 1940 to 1980 (incidentally their graph looks rather odd and
>> may have been carefully selected; on a more usual (and sourced!) plot
>> the "4 decades of cooling" is rather less evident). They presented this
>> as a major flaw in the theory, which is deeply deceptive, because as
>> they and their interviewees must know, the 40-70 cooling type period is
>> readily explained, in that the GCMs are quite happy to reproduce it, as
>> largely caused by sulphate aerosols. See this for a wiki-pic, for
>> example; or (all together now) the IPCC TAR SPM fig 4; or more
>> up-to-date AR4 fig 4. So... they are lying to us by omission.
>>
>> The troposphere should warm faster than the sfc, say the models and
>> basic theory. As indeed it does - unless you're wedded to the
>> multiply-corrected Spencer+Christy version of the MSU series. Christy
>> (naturally enough) features in this section, though he seems to have
>> forgotten the US CCSP report, and the executive summary which he
>> authored says Previously reported discrepancies between the amount of
>> warming near the surface and higher in the atmosphere have been used to
>> challenge the reliability of climate models and the reality of human
>> induced global warming. Specifically, surface data showed substantial
>> global-average warming, while early versions of satellite and radiosonde
>> data showed little or no warming above the surface. This significant
>> discrepancy no longer exists because errors in the satellite and
>> radiosonde data have been identified and corrected. New data sets have
>> also been developed that do not show such discrepancies. See-also
>> previous RC posts.
>>
>> Temperature leads CO2 by 800 years in the ice cores. Not quite as true
>> as they said, but basically correct; however they misinterpret it. The
>> way they said this you would have thought that T and CO2 are
>> anti-correlated; but if you overlay the full 400/800 kyr of ice core
>> record, you can't even see the lag because its so small. The correct
>> interpretation of this is well known: that there is a T-CO2 feedback:
>> see RC again for more.
>>
>> All the previous parts of the programme were leading up to "so if it
>> isn't CO2, what is it?" to which their answer is "solar". The section
>> was curiously weak, and largely lead by pictures of people on beaches.
>> It was somewhat surprising that they didn't feature Svensmark at all;
>> other stuff we've commented on before. Note that the graph they used as
>> "proof" of the excellent solar-T connection turns out to have some
>> problems: see figure 1c of Damon and Laut.
>>
>> Along the way the programme ticked off most of the other obligatory
>> skeptic talking points: even down to Medieval English vineyards and that
>> old favourite, volcanoes emitting more CO2 than humans.
>>
>> It ended with politics, with a segment blaming the lack of African
>> development on the environmental movement. We don't want to get into the
>> politics, but should point out what the programme didn't: that Kyoto
>> exempts developing nations."
>>
>>
>> Keeping it real is a very good idea. So it's best to look at the science
>> and go from there.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Rich Lamanna wrote:
>>> Jamie and the rest of you Parisites, here's another view regarding the
>>> global warming polemic, ideology, religion and orthodoxy. These
> scientists
>>> were involved with the IPCC's report, but dissociated themselves with
> the
>>> same report when blatant omissions and mistruths were put forth by the
> IPCC.
>>> They scientifically disprove that CO2 is the cause for temperature
> change.
>>> Before you all jump out of your skin and shout, "2500 top scientists are
> on
>>> the IPCC panel and therefore it can't be wrong", you really should watch
>>> this with an open mind. You will, if you have an shred of rational,
> logical
>>> reasoning, question the present hysteria over the global warming debate.
>>>
>>> http://www.jonhs.net/freemovies/great_global_warming_swindle .htm
>>>
>>> Just keeping it real,
>>> Rich
>>>
>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
> news:463f4b03$1@linux...
>>>> Hey Neil, Sarkozy is in the news right now and his comment caught my
>>>> eye. I think his perspective on global warming is worth sharing.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> -Jamie
>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Neil wrote:
>>>>> Whaddya have a search engine portal permanently set to the
>>>>> term "global warming" or something?
>>>>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Sarkozy on global warming:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "a great nation like the United States has the duty not to oppose the
>>>>>> fight against global warming, but to lead that battle, because what
> is
>>>>>> at stake is the destiny of mankind."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rich Lamanna wrote:
>>>>>>> France Elects a Thatcherite President
>>>>>>> Kenneth R. Timmerman
>>>>>>> Monday, May 7, 2007
>>>>>>> Newsmax.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sunday France elected a pro-American, conservative named Nicolas
>>> Sarkozy
>>>>>>> as its new president.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The 52-year-old who beat back by 10 percentage points his Socialist
>>> rival,
>>>>>>> promises an unabashed Thatcherite agenda for France.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sarkozy also replaces the embattled Jacques Chirac, a relic from an
>>> earlier
>>>>>>> age of French politics, who made anti-Americanism his hallmark.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sarkozy campaigned on a platform of sweeping reforms, pledging to
>>> dismantle
>>>>>>> large portions of the social welfare state and to make France
>>> competitive
>>>>> on
>>>>>>> world markets again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can read the rest here:
>>>>>>>
> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/6/150434.sht ml?s=al&promo_code=3392-1
>>>>>>> Carry on,
>>>>>>> Rich
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>
>
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