Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World
| OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63781] |
Wed, 25 January 2006 15:36  |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
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Senior Member |
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http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
Okay, so what does this product mean?
1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with the Big kohuna
AKA Digidesign??
3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the Mac's cpu(s)
handle the recording and plugins?
4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay DAW manfacturer
"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part Native solution/DSP
that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been talking about???
If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the real forward
thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You guys Rock!!!..
Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of sorts...:)
Interesting developments..Wow...
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| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63788 is a reply to message #63781] |
Wed, 25 January 2006 16:38  |
Jeremy Luzier
Messages: 102
Registered: November 2005
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Senior Member |
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um.... i think apogee just gave the finger to digi.
jer
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:43d7fd6b$1@linux...
>
> http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
>
> Okay, so what does this product mean?
> 1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
>
> 2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with the Big
kohuna
> AKA Digidesign??
>
> 3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the Mac's
cpu(s)
> handle the recording and plugins?
>
> 4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay DAW
manfacturer
> "Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part Native
solution/DSP
> that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been talking
about???
>
> If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the real
forward
> thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You guys
Rock!!!..
> Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of sorts...:)
>
> Interesting developments..Wow...
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| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63790 is a reply to message #63781] |
Wed, 25 January 2006 18:12 |
Mic Cross
Messages: 30
Registered: June 2005
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Member |
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Couldn't find a price mentioned ... anyone know?
Mic.
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
>
>Okay, so what does this product mean?
>1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
>
>2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with the Big
kohuna
>AKA Digidesign??
>
>3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the Mac's
cpu(s)
>handle the recording and plugins?
>
>4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay DAW manfacturer
>"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part Native solution/DSP
>that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been talking about???
>
>If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the real forward
>thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You guys Rock!!!..
>Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of sorts...:)
>
>Interesting developments..Wow...
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| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63791 is a reply to message #63781] |
Wed, 25 January 2006 18:36 |
gene lennon
Messages: 565
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
>
>Okay, so what does this product mean?
>1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
>
>2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with the Big
kohuna
>AKA Digidesign??
>
>3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the Mac's
cpu(s)
>handle the recording and plugins?
>
>4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay DAW manfacturer
>"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part Native solution/DSP
>that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been talking about???
>
>If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the real forward
>thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You guys Rock!!!..
>Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of sorts...:)
>
>Interesting developments..Wow...
I’m all in favor of a direct shot over Digidesign's bow, but this is not
appreciably different from many solutions that have been around for years.
The MOTU 424 PCI card can handle 96 channels at 96K/24 and other manufactures
have offered similar solutions for the Mac.
The most significant part of the Apogee’s 32-channel, PCI Express card for
Macintosh is its price/quality ratio; the DSP processing on board is only
for low latency routing. Hopefully it will sound great. It is at a price
point much lower then my Mytek 8X96 plus 2408/424 solution.
gene
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| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63792 is a reply to message #63781] |
Wed, 25 January 2006 17:31 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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Word so far is it could be great, but let it sit for 6 months or so in case
the drivers aren't there, but that's just speculation, and it is based on
core audio, so it may rock big time for Mac/Logic users. Everyone else
seems to be out of luck for the time being (other than Ensemble, but that's
a firewire interface, so no dsp/streaming help there).
Regards,
Dedric
On 1/25/06 4:36 PM, in article 43d7fd6b$1@linux, "LaMont"
<jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
> http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
>
> Okay, so what does this product mean?
> 1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
>
> 2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with the Big kohuna
> AKA Digidesign??
>
> 3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the Mac's cpu(s)
> handle the recording and plugins?
>
> 4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay DAW
> manfacturer
> "Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part Native
> solution/DSP
> that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been talking
> about???
>
> If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the real forward
> thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You guys
> Rock!!!..
> Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of sorts...:)
>
> Interesting developments..Wow...
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| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63798 is a reply to message #63781] |
Wed, 25 January 2006 21:23 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Apple is more focused on consumer/mass market products these days. I think
Apple and Digi will keep working together, it's just another product, of
corse any thing can happen.
Here's a hypothetical scenario. Digi dumps Apple, Apple gets dead serious.
Apple gets the best software engineers they can buy, and gets Logic really
rockin. Apple buys Apogee, JL Cooper, Creamware and UA! ( I know I just
made some of you queasy. Sorry! LOL) They start building tightly integrated
DAW systems and AV systems with Logic/SoundTrack/FCP, and they release it
for Mac and PC! If the systems were affordable, do you think that Apple
would start to eat digi's lunch?
James
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
>
>Okay, so what does this product mean?
>1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
>
>2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with the Big
kohuna
>AKA Digidesign??
>
>3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the Mac's
cpu(s)
>handle the recording and plugins?
>
>4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay DAW manfacturer
>"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part Native solution/DSP
>that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been talking about???
>
>If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the real forward
>thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You guys Rock!!!..
>Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of sorts...:)
>
>Interesting developments..Wow...
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| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63802 is a reply to message #63798] |
Wed, 25 January 2006 23:39 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi James(hey Was'nt there a Hi-end store names Hy-James? :)
Seriously, your speculation could be accurate. Although, Digi won't be left
for dead. They are proving that they can hang with the so-called low-end
with their recent update for LE 7 Mpowered. Now you can record up to 48 tracks
mono or 48 tracks stereo.!! Plus, they threw in all of HD toyz like: Full
beat detective, translator..high-end Rtas plugins..(FOr a 500-$1,000 bucks)
upgrade ..
But, Gene is correct in that the new apogee cards are just low latency mixers.
What do I gain? I guess, if I'm using Logic, I gain a better mixer???
The jury is stillout for me on this one. As stated by Gene, Motu is already
doing this kind of thing, and they are doing it well..
Take care
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Apple is more focused on consumer/mass market products these days. I think
>Apple and Digi will keep working together, it's just another product, of
>corse any thing can happen.
>
>Here's a hypothetical scenario. Digi dumps Apple, Apple gets dead serious.
> Apple gets the best software engineers they can buy, and gets Logic really
>rockin. Apple buys Apogee, JL Cooper, Creamware and UA! ( I know I just
>made some of you queasy. Sorry! LOL) They start building tightly integrated
>DAW systems and AV systems with Logic/SoundTrack/FCP, and they release it
>for Mac and PC! If the systems were affordable, do you think that Apple
>would start to eat digi's lunch?
>
>James
>
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>
>>http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
>>
>>Okay, so what does this product mean?
>>1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
>>
>>2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with the Big
>kohuna
>>AKA Digidesign??
>>
>>3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the Mac's
>cpu(s)
>>handle the recording and plugins?
>>
>>4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay DAW
manfacturer
>>"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part Native solution/DSP
>>that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been talking
about???
>>
>>If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the real forward
>>thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You guys
Rock!!!..
>>Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of sorts...:)
>>
>>Interesting developments..Wow...
>
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| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63808 is a reply to message #63802] |
Thu, 26 January 2006 01:31 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>Hi James(hey Was'nt there a Hi-end store names Hy-James? :)
>
>Seriously, your speculation could be accurate. Although, Digi won't be left
>for dead. They are proving that they can hang with the so-called low-end
>with their recent update for LE 7 Mpowered. Now you can record up to 48
tracks
>mono or 48 tracks stereo.!! Plus, they threw in all of HD toyz like: Full
>beat detective, translator..high-end Rtas plugins..(FOr a 500-$1,000 bucks)
>upgrade ..
>
>But, Gene is correct in that the new apogee cards are just low latency mixers.
>What do I gain? I guess, if I'm using Logic, I gain a better mixer???
>
>The jury is stillout for me on this one. As stated by Gene, Motu is already
>doing this kind of thing, and they are doing it well..
>Take care
>
>
>
Hey LaMont! I don't think it would be a good idea for Apple or Digi to pick
a fight with each other, that's why I don't think they actually will. You
never know though.
I'm going to get a little deep on you here with my opinion on the subject
of new gear. You might find what I have to say a bit funny being that I
have sold you gear as a Pro audio dealer in the past; )
I wouldn't concern yourself too much, more and better is always coming.
I say use what you've got now and make money with it. There is just too
much stuff out there, and manufactures are always going to sell you the next
wiz-bang shiny box, it's never ending. Your ideal DAW that's in your head
will probably never exist, and if it did, the manufacture would want an arm,
ah leg and a left nut for it.
Get what works for you and let the rest of the world and their hype go-by!
Remember it all ends up 16bit 44.1 or MP3s! Now we're going to 32, 48,
or 64bit files!!!??? I know the arguments, but is it really necessary?
I'm saying, striving for perfection is Ok as long as it makes sense. You've
got to weigh out things like cost and necessity. Some audio gear has gone
up in price and some has gone down in price, but one thing is for sure,
what an audio engineer can make in this town has definitely gone down.
Think about it, the manufacturers tell you when it's time to upgrade, and
they will always change the channel on us. We end up like a dog chasing
it's tail. Good quality tools are important, but gear is not always the
answer. Your chops as an engineer, producer, musician are more important.
If the gear is getting in the way of creativity, flow, and production, then
you need new gear. Remember, it's all psychological, it's about ego, we
all want to be James Bond.
Sit back and wait, Music Messa will be Steinberg time, and others. There
is also AES and NAB this spring, so hang on, it's going to get interesting
this year. You already know everything I've been saying, I just thought
I would remind you; )
Anyways, Hy-James was the high end Audio dealer at one time here in Detroit.
The owner was Henry Root. His main business was selling tape, but companies
like Producers tape were hurting him along with mail order catalogs. He
could sell only so many Studer machines in this town at that time. So he
got out of the business. He ended up working at Rocktron for a while, he
was in charge of the X project digital mixer. Too bad for them, that the
Yamaha 02r hit the market before the X-Project did. That mixer was ahead
of it's time in ways with joy stix and surround sound mixing. It had CircleSound,
Rocktrons dolby encoder, decoder, around 1994-95. Last time I saw Henry
was a NAMM show about five years ago.
James
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Apple is more focused on consumer/mass market products these days. I
think
>>Apple and Digi will keep working together, it's just another product, of
>>corse any thing can happen.
>>
>>Here's a hypothetical scenario. Digi dumps Apple, Apple gets dead serious.
>> Apple gets the best software engineers they can buy, and gets Logic really
>>rockin. Apple buys Apogee, JL Cooper, Creamware and UA! ( I know I just
>>made some of you queasy. Sorry! LOL) They start building tightly integrated
>>DAW systems and AV systems with Logic/SoundTrack/FCP, and they release
it
>>for Mac and PC! If the systems were affordable, do you think that Apple
>>would start to eat digi's lunch?
>>
>>James
>>
>>
>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
>>>
>>>Okay, so what does this product mean?
>>>1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
>>>
>>>2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with the Big
>>kohuna
>>>AKA Digidesign??
>>>
>>>3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the Mac's
>>cpu(s)
>>>handle the recording and plugins?
>>>
>>>4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay DAW
>manfacturer
>>>"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part Native
solution/DSP
>>>that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been talking
>about???
>>>
>>>If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the real
forward
>>>thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You guys
>Rock!!!..
>>>Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of sorts...:)
>>>
>>>Interesting developments..Wow...
>>
>
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| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63811 is a reply to message #63798] |
Thu, 26 January 2006 00:28 |
erlilo
Messages: 405
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
....and I heard that Mickey Mouse an Steve Jobs have been "married". So what
will Disney and Steve Jobs do for the animation future?...
Erling
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> skrev i melding
news:43d84ea4$1@linux...
>
> Apple is more focused on consumer/mass market products these days. I
> think
> Apple and Digi will keep working together, it's just another product, of
> corse any thing can happen.
>
> Here's a hypothetical scenario. Digi dumps Apple, Apple gets dead
> serious.
> Apple gets the best software engineers they can buy, and gets Logic really
> rockin. Apple buys Apogee, JL Cooper, Creamware and UA! ( I know I just
> made some of you queasy. Sorry! LOL) They start building tightly
> integrated
> DAW systems and AV systems with Logic/SoundTrack/FCP, and they release it
> for Mac and PC! If the systems were affordable, do you think that Apple
> would start to eat digi's lunch?
>
> James
>
>
> "LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>
>>http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
>>
>>Okay, so what does this product mean?
>>1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
>>
>>2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with the Big
> kohuna
>>AKA Digidesign??
>>
>>3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the Mac's
> cpu(s)
>>handle the recording and plugins?
>>
>>4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay DAW
>>manfacturer
>>"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part Native
>>solution/DSP
>>that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been talking
>>about???
>>
>>If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the real
>>forward
>>thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You guys
>>Rock!!!..
>>Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of sorts...:)
>>
>>Interesting developments..Wow...
>
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| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63818 is a reply to message #63808] |
Thu, 26 January 2006 08:21 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
James,
Great Points!! All around. That's why I still use Paris to this day.
Take care..
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>
>>Hi James(hey Was'nt there a Hi-end store names Hy-James? :)
>>
>>Seriously, your speculation could be accurate. Although, Digi won't be
left
>>for dead. They are proving that they can hang with the so-called low-end
>>with their recent update for LE 7 Mpowered. Now you can record up to 48
>tracks
>>mono or 48 tracks stereo.!! Plus, they threw in all of HD toyz like: Full
>>beat detective, translator..high-end Rtas plugins..(FOr a 500-$1,000 bucks)
>>upgrade ..
>>
>>But, Gene is correct in that the new apogee cards are just low latency
mixers.
>>What do I gain? I guess, if I'm using Logic, I gain a better mixer???
>>
>>The jury is stillout for me on this one. As stated by Gene, Motu is already
>>doing this kind of thing, and they are doing it well..
>>Take care
>>
>>
>>
>
>Hey LaMont! I don't think it would be a good idea for Apple or Digi to
pick
>a fight with each other, that's why I don't think they actually will. You
>never know though.
>
>I'm going to get a little deep on you here with my opinion on the subject
>of new gear. You might find what I have to say a bit funny being that I
>have sold you gear as a Pro audio dealer in the past; )
>
>I wouldn't concern yourself too much, more and better is always coming.
>I say use what you've got now and make money with it. There is just too
>much stuff out there, and manufactures are always going to sell you the
next
>wiz-bang shiny box, it's never ending. Your ideal DAW that's in your head
>will probably never exist, and if it did, the manufacture would want an
arm,
>ah leg and a left nut for it.
>
>Get what works for you and let the rest of the world and their hype go-by!
> Remember it all ends up 16bit 44.1 or MP3s! Now we're going to 32, 48,
>or 64bit files!!!??? I know the arguments, but is it really necessary?
>I'm saying, striving for perfection is Ok as long as it makes sense. You've
>got to weigh out things like cost and necessity. Some audio gear has gone
>up in price and some has gone down in price, but one thing is for sure,
>what an audio engineer can make in this town has definitely gone down.
>
>Think about it, the manufacturers tell you when it's time to upgrade, and
>they will always change the channel on us. We end up like a dog chasing
>it's tail. Good quality tools are important, but gear is not always the
>answer. Your chops as an engineer, producer, musician are more important.
> If the gear is getting in the way of creativity, flow, and production,
then
>you need new gear. Remember, it's all psychological, it's about ego, we
>all want to be James Bond.
>
>Sit back and wait, Music Messa will be Steinberg time, and others. There
>is also AES and NAB this spring, so hang on, it's going to get interesting
>this year. You already know everything I've been saying, I just thought
>I would remind you; )
>
>
>Anyways, Hy-James was the high end Audio dealer at one time here in Detroit.
> The owner was Henry Root. His main business was selling tape, but companies
>like Producers tape were hurting him along with mail order catalogs. He
>could sell only so many Studer machines in this town at that time. So he
>got out of the business. He ended up working at Rocktron for a while, he
>was in charge of the X project digital mixer. Too bad for them, that the
>Yamaha 02r hit the market before the X-Project did. That mixer was ahead
>of it's time in ways with joy stix and surround sound mixing. It had CircleSound,
>Rocktrons dolby encoder, decoder, around 1994-95. Last time I saw Henry
>was a NAMM show about five years ago.
>
>James
>
>
>>
>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Apple is more focused on consumer/mass market products these days. I
>think
>>>Apple and Digi will keep working together, it's just another product,
of
>>>corse any thing can happen.
>>>
>>>Here's a hypothetical scenario. Digi dumps Apple, Apple gets dead serious.
>>> Apple gets the best software engineers they can buy, and gets Logic really
>>>rockin. Apple buys Apogee, JL Cooper, Creamware and UA! ( I know I just
>>>made some of you queasy. Sorry! LOL) They start building tightly integrated
>>>DAW systems and AV systems with Logic/SoundTrack/FCP, and they release
>it
>>>for Mac and PC! If the systems were affordable, do you think that Apple
>>>would start to eat digi's lunch?
>>>
>>>James
>>>
>>>
>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
>>>>
>>>>Okay, so what does this product mean?
>>>>1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
>>>>
>>>>2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with the Big
>>>kohuna
>>>>AKA Digidesign??
>>>>
>>>>3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the Mac's
>>>cpu(s)
>>>>handle the recording and plugins?
>>>>
>>>>4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay DAW
>>manfacturer
>>>>"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part Native
>solution/DSP
>>>>that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been talking
>>about???
>>>>
>>>>If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the real
>forward
>>>>thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You guys
>>Rock!!!..
>>>>Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of sorts...:)
>>>>
>>>>Interesting developments..Wow...
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63825 is a reply to message #63818] |
Thu, 26 January 2006 09:56 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Now we're going to 32, 48,
or 64bit files!!!??? I know the arguments, but is it really necessary?
I'm saying, striving for perfection is Ok as long as it makes sense. You've
got to weigh out things like cost and necessity.
I'm mixing a project right now2 with 15 external processors (AD/DA's) in the
mix. Sounds great. A couple of the processors are older (one has 20 bit
converters, the other 18 bit). the mix is being streamed from a 32 bit
floating point system through 20 bit Paris ligitpipe. Is it state of the art
digital resolution??......not in a million years. Does it sound
good???......yep! It sounds just like I want it to sound.
Wayyyyyyy too much hype these days. I have quit sweating this stuff
;o)
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:43d8e915$1@linux...
>
> James,
> Great Points!! All around. That's why I still use Paris to this day.
> Take care..
>
> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>Hi James(hey Was'nt there a Hi-end store names Hy-James? :)
> >>
> >>Seriously, your speculation could be accurate. Although, Digi won't be
> left
> >>for dead. They are proving that they can hang with the so-called low-end
> >>with their recent update for LE 7 Mpowered. Now you can record up to 48
> >tracks
> >>mono or 48 tracks stereo.!! Plus, they threw in all of HD toyz like:
Full
> >>beat detective, translator..high-end Rtas plugins..(FOr a 500-$1,000
bucks)
> >>upgrade ..
> >>
> >>But, Gene is correct in that the new apogee cards are just low latency
> mixers.
> >>What do I gain? I guess, if I'm using Logic, I gain a better mixer???
> >>
> >>The jury is stillout for me on this one. As stated by Gene, Motu is
already
> >>doing this kind of thing, and they are doing it well..
> >>Take care
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Hey LaMont! I don't think it would be a good idea for Apple or Digi to
> pick
> >a fight with each other, that's why I don't think they actually will.
You
> >never know though.
> >
> >I'm going to get a little deep on you here with my opinion on the subject
> >of new gear. You might find what I have to say a bit funny being that I
> >have sold you gear as a Pro audio dealer in the past; )
> >
> >I wouldn't concern yourself too much, more and better is always coming.
>
> >I say use what you've got now and make money with it. There is just too
> >much stuff out there, and manufactures are always going to sell you the
> next
> >wiz-bang shiny box, it's never ending. Your ideal DAW that's in your
head
> >will probably never exist, and if it did, the manufacture would want an
> arm,
> >ah leg and a left nut for it.
> >
> >Get what works for you and let the rest of the world and their hype
go-by!
> > Remember it all ends up 16bit 44.1 or MP3s! Now we're going to 32, 48,
> >or 64bit files!!!??? I know the arguments, but is it really necessary?
>
> >I'm saying, striving for perfection is Ok as long as it makes sense.
You've
> >got to weigh out things like cost and necessity. Some audio gear has
gone
> >up in price and some has gone down in price, but one thing is for sure,
> >what an audio engineer can make in this town has definitely gone down.
>
> >
> >Think about it, the manufacturers tell you when it's time to upgrade, and
> >they will always change the channel on us. We end up like a dog chasing
> >it's tail. Good quality tools are important, but gear is not always the
> >answer. Your chops as an engineer, producer, musician are more
important.
> > If the gear is getting in the way of creativity, flow, and production,
> then
> >you need new gear. Remember, it's all psychological, it's about ego, we
> >all want to be James Bond.
> >
> >Sit back and wait, Music Messa will be Steinberg time, and others. There
> >is also AES and NAB this spring, so hang on, it's going to get
interesting
> >this year. You already know everything I've been saying, I just thought
> >I would remind you; )
> >
> >
> >Anyways, Hy-James was the high end Audio dealer at one time here in
Detroit.
> > The owner was Henry Root. His main business was selling tape, but
companies
> >like Producers tape were hurting him along with mail order catalogs. He
> >could sell only so many Studer machines in this town at that time. So he
> >got out of the business. He ended up working at Rocktron for a while, he
> >was in charge of the X project digital mixer. Too bad for them, that the
> >Yamaha 02r hit the market before the X-Project did. That mixer was ahead
> >of it's time in ways with joy stix and surround sound mixing. It had
CircleSound,
> >Rocktrons dolby encoder, decoder, around 1994-95. Last time I saw Henry
> >was a NAMM show about five years ago.
> >
> >James
> >
> >
> >>
> >>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Apple is more focused on consumer/mass market products these days. I
> >think
> >>>Apple and Digi will keep working together, it's just another product,
> of
> >>>corse any thing can happen.
> >>>
> >>>Here's a hypothetical scenario. Digi dumps Apple, Apple gets dead
serious.
> >>> Apple gets the best software engineers they can buy, and gets Logic
really
> >>>rockin. Apple buys Apogee, JL Cooper, Creamware and UA! ( I know I
just
> >>>made some of you queasy. Sorry! LOL) They start building tightly
integrated
> >>>DAW systems and AV systems with Logic/SoundTrack/FCP, and they release
> >it
> >>>for Mac and PC! If the systems were affordable, do you think that
Apple
> >>>would start to eat digi's lunch?
> >>>
> >>>James
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
> >>>>
> >>>>Okay, so what does this product mean?
> >>>>1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
> >>>>
> >>>>2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with the
Big
> >>>kohuna
> >>>>AKA Digidesign??
> >>>>
> >>>>3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the
Mac's
> >>>cpu(s)
> >>>>handle the recording and plugins?
> >>>>
> >>>>4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay DAW
> >>manfacturer
> >>>>"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part Native
> >solution/DSP
> >>>>that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been talking
> >>about???
> >>>>
> >>>>If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the real
> >forward
> >>>>thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You guys
> >>Rock!!!..
> >>>>Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of sorts...:)
> >>>>
> >>>>Interesting developments..Wow...
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63827 is a reply to message #63825] |
Thu, 26 January 2006 11:04 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Audio files, not so much, but with processing there are potential (and often
debated) gains from greater bit depths. I read another review of Sonar 5
that stated users are reporting better handling of higher track counts (yes,
you may be right Lamont). That could be the same "report" being quoted by
different reviewers, but with VST 2.4 going to 64-bit, and, as I am
guessing, if Nuendo (and other native DAWs) goes full 64-bit this spring, we
may start to find out how much of a benefit there is.
I don't have any plans to start recording to 64-bit files, but I wouldn't
mind being able to send a 32-bit float file to mastering instead of 24.
What will benefit? - clarity for widely dynamic recordings - classical,
maybe jazz or acoustic where you are capturing a stellar space with some of
the best converters and mics on the market. Other than that, you just have
extra bits.
When we are all recording to 128-bit at 1Mhz sampling rates some day we may
either look back and say "wow, 16/44.1k sucked", or "man this new gear was a
big waste of time..." ;-)
Regards,
Dedric
On 1/26/06 10:56 AM, in article 43d9111d$1@linux, "DJ"
<animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
> Now we're going to 32, 48,
> or 64bit files!!!??? I know the arguments, but is it really necessary?
> I'm saying, striving for perfection is Ok as long as it makes sense. You've
> got to weigh out things like cost and necessity.
>
> I'm mixing a project right now2 with 15 external processors (AD/DA's) in the
> mix. Sounds great. A couple of the processors are older (one has 20 bit
> converters, the other 18 bit). the mix is being streamed from a 32 bit
> floating point system through 20 bit Paris ligitpipe. Is it state of the art
> digital resolution??......not in a million years. Does it sound
> good???......yep! It sounds just like I want it to sound.
>
> Wayyyyyyy too much hype these days. I have quit sweating this stuff
>
> ;o)
>
> "LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:43d8e915$1@linux...
>>
>> James,
>> Great Points!! All around. That's why I still use Paris to this day.
>> Take care..
>>
>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63844 is a reply to message #63781] |
Thu, 26 January 2006 18:52 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I've been meaning to write about this for a few days but have spent literally
every minute of the past few days either at work, playing shows, or blind
drunk. So . . .
To me this really product is not much news, and if it were any other two
companies it wouldn't even be news at all. As I said before, DSP systems
are there for people who are willing to pay the big bucks to track with almost
no latency. Native systems are for everyone else. This is just a PCI-E native
system. That matters to Apple because the reports are that their next series
of desktops won't have anything but PCI-E slots.
As far as the "grand strategy" stuff, and if Apple is threatening Digi or
whatever. Think for a minute about how much money Apple makes from people
who make music on Macs. Then think about how much money they make from people
who buy iPods and download from iTunes. Then think about the fact that Jobs
is on the board at Disney and the new iPods do video. Do you think Apple
*as a company* is fundamentally concerned with pro audio users? Would they
like to make money there? Sure. But would they trade 10% more of the pro
audio market for 10% of the MP3 player market? I wouldn't think so.
Thus, to me this is a very nice, and probably very expensive, native system.
Not fundamentally different than a very nice RME system on either platform.
TCB
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
>
>Okay, so what does this product mean?
>1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
>
>2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with the Big
kohuna
>AKA Digidesign??
>
>3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the Mac's
cpu(s)
>handle the recording and plugins?
>
>4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay DAW manfacturer
>"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part Native solution/DSP
>that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been talking about???
>
>If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the real forward
>thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You guys Rock!!!..
>Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of sorts...:)
>
>Interesting developments..Wow...
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63846 is a reply to message #63844] |
Thu, 26 January 2006 22:11 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
That for your input Thad..That clear a lot questions I had.. I just could
not figure out the product's mission. No on-board DSP, just a router and
Mixer..
LaMOnt
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>I've been meaning to write about this for a few days but have spent literally
>every minute of the past few days either at work, playing shows, or blind
>drunk. So . . .
>
>To me this really product is not much news, and if it were any other two
>companies it wouldn't even be news at all. As I said before, DSP systems
>are there for people who are willing to pay the big bucks to track with
almost
>no latency. Native systems are for everyone else. This is just a PCI-E native
>system. That matters to Apple because the reports are that their next series
>of desktops won't have anything but PCI-E slots.
>
>As far as the "grand strategy" stuff, and if Apple is threatening Digi or
>whatever. Think for a minute about how much money Apple makes from people
>who make music on Macs. Then think about how much money they make from people
>who buy iPods and download from iTunes. Then think about the fact that Jobs
>is on the board at Disney and the new iPods do video. Do you think Apple
>*as a company* is fundamentally concerned with pro audio users? Would they
>like to make money there? Sure. But would they trade 10% more of the pro
>audio market for 10% of the MP3 player market? I wouldn't think so.
>
>Thus, to me this is a very nice, and probably very expensive, native system.
>Not fundamentally different than a very nice RME system on either platform.
>
>
>TCB
>
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>
>>http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
>>
>>Okay, so what does this product mean?
>>1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
>>
>>2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with the Big
>kohuna
>>AKA Digidesign??
>>
>>3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the Mac's
>cpu(s)
>>handle the recording and plugins?
>>
>>4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay DAW
manfacturer
>>"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part Native solution/DSP
>>that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been talking
about???
>>
>>If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the real forward
>>thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You guys
Rock!!!..
>>Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of sorts...:)
>>
>>Interesting developments..Wow...
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63847 is a reply to message #63846] |
Thu, 26 January 2006 21:56 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Basically a Mac specific (and OSX optimized) low latency host card for
Apogee convertersas I see it.
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:43d9ab94$1@linux...
>
> That for your input Thad..That clear a lot questions I had.. I just could
> not figure out the product's mission. No on-board DSP, just a router and
> Mixer..
> LaMOnt
>
> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
> >
> >I've been meaning to write about this for a few days but have spent
literally
> >every minute of the past few days either at work, playing shows, or blind
> >drunk. So . . .
> >
> >To me this really product is not much news, and if it were any other two
> >companies it wouldn't even be news at all. As I said before, DSP systems
> >are there for people who are willing to pay the big bucks to track with
> almost
> >no latency. Native systems are for everyone else. This is just a PCI-E
native
> >system. That matters to Apple because the reports are that their next
series
> >of desktops won't have anything but PCI-E slots.
> >
> >As far as the "grand strategy" stuff, and if Apple is threatening Digi or
> >whatever. Think for a minute about how much money Apple makes from people
> >who make music on Macs. Then think about how much money they make from
people
> >who buy iPods and download from iTunes. Then think about the fact that
Jobs
> >is on the board at Disney and the new iPods do video. Do you think Apple
> >*as a company* is fundamentally concerned with pro audio users? Would
they
> >like to make money there? Sure. But would they trade 10% more of the pro
> >audio market for 10% of the MP3 player market? I wouldn't think so.
> >
> >Thus, to me this is a very nice, and probably very expensive, native
system.
> >Not fundamentally different than a very nice RME system on either
platform.
> >
> >
> >TCB
> >
> >
> >"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
> >>
> >>Okay, so what does this product mean?
> >>1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
> >>
> >>2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with the Big
> >kohuna
> >>AKA Digidesign??
> >>
> >>3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the Mac's
> >cpu(s)
> >>handle the recording and plugins?
> >>
> >>4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay DAW
> manfacturer
> >>"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part Native
solution/DSP
> >>that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been talking
> about???
> >>
> >>If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the real
forward
> >>thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You guys
> Rock!!!..
> >>Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of sorts...:)
> >>
> >>Interesting developments..Wow...
> >
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63848 is a reply to message #63846] |
Fri, 27 January 2006 00:23 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>That for your input Thad..That clear a lot questions I had.. I just could
>not figure out the product's mission. No on-board DSP, just a router and
>Mixer..
>LaMOnt
Apple usually gives third parties their space and support to develop products.
Maybe they figure that their are plenty of options out there already. There's
T.C. electronic, CreamWare, UA, lexicon, Receptor,and another DSP box I can't
think of the name of. You ask what it means, it means, a DSP mixer router
will free up lots of CPU horsepower for lots of plugins. My guess is Apple
is planning a quad dual core machine, that's 8 processors! Think July 2006-2007.
Of corse, I'm speculating.
James
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>I've been meaning to write about this for a few days but have spent literally
>>every minute of the past few days either at work, playing shows, or blind
>>drunk. So . . .
>>
>>To me this really product is not much news, and if it were any other two
>>companies it wouldn't even be news at all. As I said before, DSP systems
>>are there for people who are willing to pay the big bucks to track with
>almost
>>no latency. Native systems are for everyone else. This is just a PCI-E
native
>>system. That matters to Apple because the reports are that their next series
>>of desktops won't have anything but PCI-E slots.
>>
>>As far as the "grand strategy" stuff, and if Apple is threatening Digi
or
>>whatever. Think for a minute about how much money Apple makes from people
>>who make music on Macs. Then think about how much money they make from
people
>>who buy iPods and download from iTunes. Then think about the fact that
Jobs
>>is on the board at Disney and the new iPods do video. Do you think Apple
>>*as a company* is fundamentally concerned with pro audio users? Would they
>>like to make money there? Sure. But would they trade 10% more of the pro
>>audio market for 10% of the MP3 player market? I wouldn't think so.
>>
>>Thus, to me this is a very nice, and probably very expensive, native system.
>>Not fundamentally different than a very nice RME system on either platform.
>>
>>
>>TCB
>>
>>
>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
>>>
>>>Okay, so what does this product mean?
>>>1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
>>>
>>>2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with the Big
>>kohuna
>>>AKA Digidesign??
>>>
>>>3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the Mac's
>>cpu(s)
>>>handle the recording and plugins?
>>>
>>>4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay DAW
>manfacturer
>>>"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part Native
solution/DSP
>>>that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been talking
>about???
>>>
>>>If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the real
forward
>>>thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You guys
>Rock!!!..
>>>Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of sorts...:)
>>>
>>>Interesting developments..Wow...
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63849 is a reply to message #63844] |
Fri, 27 January 2006 00:27 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>I've been meaning to write about this for a few days but have spent literally
>every minute of the past few days either at work, playing shows, or blind
>drunk. So . . .
>
>To me this really product is not much news, and if it were any other two
>companies it wouldn't even be news at all. As I said before, DSP systems
>are there for people who are willing to pay the big bucks to track with
almost
>no latency. Native systems are for everyone else. This is just a PCI-E native
>system. That matters to Apple because the reports are that their next series
>of desktops won't have anything but PCI-E slots.
I think it's news in the audio world any time Apogee comes out with a new
product. Apogee is significant, their converters are a professional industry
standard. Converters are subjective.
>
>As far as the "grand strategy" stuff, and if Apple is threatening Digi or
>whatever. Think for a minute about how much money Apple makes from people
>who make music on Macs. Then think about how much money they make from people
>who buy iPods and download from iTunes. Then think about the fact that Jobs
>is on the board at Disney and the new iPods do video. Do you think Apple
>*as a company* is fundamentally concerned with pro audio users? Would they
>like to make money there? Sure. But would they trade 10% more of the pro
>audio market for 10% of the MP3 player market? I wouldn't think so.
>
>Thus, to me this is a very nice, and probably very expensive, native system.
>Not fundamentally different than a very nice RME system on either platform.
>
>
>TCB
I don't think it's that cut and dry. I don't think it's this part of Apple's
business vs. another part of their business. I think Apple is serious about
pro Audio. The apogee thing is an example of it, and I think there will
be more to come. I don't think Apple will fire Digi, I think it would take
Digi firing Apple to really get stuff started.
Just my .02
James
>
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>
>>http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
>>
>>Okay, so what does this product mean?
>>1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
>>
>>2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with the Big
>kohuna
>>AKA Digidesign??
>>
>>3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the Mac's
>cpu(s)
>>handle the recording and plugins?
>>
>>4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay DAW
manfacturer
>>"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part Native solution/DSP
>>that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been talking
about???
>>
>>If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the real forward
>>thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You guys
Rock!!!..
>>Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of sorts...:)
>>
>>Interesting developments..Wow...
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63855 is a reply to message #63849] |
Fri, 27 January 2006 07:20 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>I've been meaning to write about this for a few days but have spent literally
>>every minute of the past few days either at work, playing shows, or blind
>>drunk. So . . .
>>
>>To me this really product is not much news, and if it were any other two
>>companies it wouldn't even be news at all. As I said before, DSP systems
>>are there for people who are willing to pay the big bucks to track with
>almost
>>no latency. Native systems are for everyone else. This is just a PCI-E
native
>>system. That matters to Apple because the reports are that their next series
>>of desktops won't have anything but PCI-E slots.
>
>I think it's news in the audio world any time Apogee comes out with a new
>product. Apogee is significant, their converters are a professional industry
>standard. Converters are subjective.
Absolutely, that's what I was saying. If PreSonus and Hewlett-Packard had
announced a deal nobody would be all that thrilled. Becuase it's Apple and
Apogee somehow it's a bigger news story. Which is fine, bully for them, I
was just pointing out that this "story" has longer legs because of the two
companies involved.
>>
>>As far as the "grand strategy" stuff, and if Apple is threatening Digi
or
>>whatever. Think for a minute about how much money Apple makes from people
>>who make music on Macs. Then think about how much money they make from
people
>>who buy iPods and download from iTunes. Then think about the fact that
Jobs
>>is on the board at Disney and the new iPods do video. Do you think Apple
>>*as a company* is fundamentally concerned with pro audio users? Would they
>>like to make money there? Sure. But would they trade 10% more of the pro
>>audio market for 10% of the MP3 player market? I wouldn't think so.
>>
>>Thus, to me this is a very nice, and probably very expensive, native system.
>>Not fundamentally different than a very nice RME system on either platform.
>>
>>
>>TCB
>
>I don't think it's that cut and dry. I don't think it's this part of Apple's
>business vs. another part of their business. I think Apple is serious about
>pro Audio. The apogee thing is an example of it, and I think there will
>be more to come. I don't think Apple will fire Digi, I think it would take
>Digi firing Apple to really get stuff started.
>
>Just my .02
>
>James
I certainly don't think Apple WANTS people to quit using them for audio,
and I don't expect Digi will move anywhere. However, LaMont was asking a
question about "what does this mean for the DAW world" and that necessarily
involves other companies.
What I find most interesting is not the Apple vs. PC vs. Digi vs. Native
or whatever else, but why everyone hates Digi so much. To be perfectly honest
I think a healthy amount of that is jealousy. No matter what most of us say,
given the choice between a massively tricked out PT rig with lots of I/O
and DSP f/x and the bestest bestest native system out there (or even the
best PARIS system out there), nearly all of us would have a sudden change
of faith and take the Digi hardware. Even I would and I'm much more of a
synth/sample guy than a rock'n'roll guy. So that's reason #1. I think reason
#2 is there is a perception that Digi uses its place as a "niche monopolist"
to abuse their customers, price gouge, and generally behave badly. In its
time PARIS was a fantastic competitor to PT because it was cheaper, looked
better, and sounded better. It didn't become a truly viable competitor to
PT for a bunch of reasons that have been hashed out here ad infinitum, but
include the cratering of Ensoniq, the later cratering of E-mu, the fact that
St. Croix was a 24 carat arrogant ass at times, increased usability of cheaper
native systems, and so on.
But what I think people like LaMont are looking for is not Digi getting knocked
off the throne or Apple owning the DAW market, but for Digi to have at least
one competitor with deep pockets and quality products to at least make Digi
behave better. Here's the thing--I don't think that competitor is going to
come along. It would be too hard a market to break (PARIS being an example
where a similar product superior in many ways never really made a dent) and
most people with the money to own big PT rigs don't really want to change
all that much even if they do whine about Digi sometimes. So, I think the
long term threat to Digi is the simple erosion of their customter base by
faster, cheaper, and better native systems. But for the sake of LaMont (and
others) I hope I'm wrong and someone is tinkering away right now on a really
super DSP system that will sell for $2k and really do something special.
TCB
>
>>
>>
>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
>>>
>>>Okay, so what does this product mean?
>>>1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
>>>
>>>2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with the Big
>>kohuna
>>>AKA Digidesign??
>>>
>>>3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the Mac's
>>cpu(s)
>>>handle the recording and plugins?
>>>
>>>4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay DAW
>manfacturer
>>>"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part Native
solution/DSP
>>>that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been talking
>about???
>>>
>>>If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the real
forward
>>>thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You guys
>Rock!!!..
>>>Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of sorts...:)
>>>
>>>Interesting developments..Wow...
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63856 is a reply to message #63855] |
Fri, 27 January 2006 08:56 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Thad (My Man) have a beer on me. You spoke my heart to the tee!!
Thanks for that great summation..
LAD
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>I've been meaning to write about this for a few days but have spent literally
>>>every minute of the past few days either at work, playing shows, or blind
>>>drunk. So . . .
>>>
>>>To me this really product is not much news, and if it were any other two
>>>companies it wouldn't even be news at all. As I said before, DSP systems
>>>are there for people who are willing to pay the big bucks to track with
>>almost
>>>no latency. Native systems are for everyone else. This is just a PCI-E
>native
>>>system. That matters to Apple because the reports are that their next
series
>>>of desktops won't have anything but PCI-E slots.
>>
>>I think it's news in the audio world any time Apogee comes out with a new
>>product. Apogee is significant, their converters are a professional industry
>>standard. Converters are subjective.
>
>Absolutely, that's what I was saying. If PreSonus and Hewlett-Packard had
>announced a deal nobody would be all that thrilled. Becuase it's Apple and
>Apogee somehow it's a bigger news story. Which is fine, bully for them,
I
>was just pointing out that this "story" has longer legs because of the two
>companies involved.
>
>>>
>>>As far as the "grand strategy" stuff, and if Apple is threatening Digi
>or
>>>whatever. Think for a minute about how much money Apple makes from people
>>>who make music on Macs. Then think about how much money they make from
>people
>>>who buy iPods and download from iTunes. Then think about the fact that
>Jobs
>>>is on the board at Disney and the new iPods do video. Do you think Apple
>>>*as a company* is fundamentally concerned with pro audio users? Would
they
>>>like to make money there? Sure. But would they trade 10% more of the pro
>>>audio market for 10% of the MP3 player market? I wouldn't think so.
>>>
>>>Thus, to me this is a very nice, and probably very expensive, native system.
>>>Not fundamentally different than a very nice RME system on either platform.
>>>
>>>
>>>TCB
>>
>>I don't think it's that cut and dry. I don't think it's this part of Apple's
>>business vs. another part of their business. I think Apple is serious
about
>>pro Audio. The apogee thing is an example of it, and I think there will
>>be more to come. I don't think Apple will fire Digi, I think it would
take
>>Digi firing Apple to really get stuff started.
>>
>>Just my .02
>>
>>James
>
>I certainly don't think Apple WANTS people to quit using them for audio,
>and I don't expect Digi will move anywhere. However, LaMont was asking a
>question about "what does this mean for the DAW world" and that necessarily
>involves other companies.
>
>What I find most interesting is not the Apple vs. PC vs. Digi vs. Native
>or whatever else, but why everyone hates Digi so much. To be perfectly honest
>I think a healthy amount of that is jealousy. No matter what most of us
say,
>given the choice between a massively tricked out PT rig with lots of I/O
>and DSP f/x and the bestest bestest native system out there (or even the
>best PARIS system out there), nearly all of us would have a sudden change
>of faith and take the Digi hardware. Even I would and I'm much more of a
>synth/sample guy than a rock'n'roll guy. So that's reason #1. I think reason
>#2 is there is a perception that Digi uses its place as a "niche monopolist"
>to abuse their customers, price gouge, and generally behave badly. In its
>time PARIS was a fantastic competitor to PT because it was cheaper, looked
>better, and sounded better. It didn't become a truly viable competitor to
>PT for a bunch of reasons that have been hashed out here ad infinitum, but
>include the cratering of Ensoniq, the later cratering of E-mu, the fact
that
>St. Croix was a 24 carat arrogant ass at times, increased usability of cheaper
>native systems, and so on.
>
>But what I think people like LaMont are looking for is not Digi getting
knocked
>off the throne or Apple owning the DAW market, but for Digi to have at least
>one competitor with deep pockets and quality products to at least make Digi
>behave better. Here's the thing--I don't think that competitor is going
to
>come along. It would be too hard a market to break (PARIS being an example
>where a similar product superior in many ways never really made a dent)
and
>most people with the money to own big PT rigs don't really want to change
>all that much even if they do whine about Digi sometimes. So, I think the
>long term threat to Digi is the simple erosion of their customter base by
>faster, cheaper, and better native systems. But for the sake of LaMont (and
>others) I hope I'm wrong and someone is tinkering away right now on a really
>super DSP system that will sell for $2k and really do something special.
>
>
>TCB
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
>>>>
>>>>Okay, so what does this product mean?
>>>>1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
>>>>
>>>>2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with the Big
>>>kohuna
>>>>AKA Digidesign??
>>>>
>>>>3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the Mac's
>>>cpu(s)
>>>>handle the recording and plugins?
>>>>
>>>>4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay DAW
>>manfacturer
>>>>"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part Native
>solution/DSP
>>>>that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been talking
>>about???
>>>>
>>>>If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the real
>forward
>>>>thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You guys
>>Rock!!!..
>>>>Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of sorts...:)
>>>>
>>>>Interesting developments..Wow...
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63863 is a reply to message #63855] |
Fri, 27 January 2006 12:29 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>I've been meaning to write about this for a few days but have spent literally
>>>every minute of the past few days either at work, playing shows, or blind
>>>drunk. So . . .
>>>
>>>To me this really product is not much news, and if it were any other two
>>>companies it wouldn't even be news at all. As I said before, DSP systems
>>>are there for people who are willing to pay the big bucks to track with
>>almost
>>>no latency. Native systems are for everyone else. This is just a PCI-E
>native
>>>system. That matters to Apple because the reports are that their next
series
>>>of desktops won't have anything but PCI-E slots.
>>
>>I think it's news in the audio world any time Apogee comes out with a new
>>product. Apogee is significant, their converters are a professional industry
>>standard. Converters are subjective.
>
>Absolutely, that's what I was saying. If PreSonus and Hewlett-Packard had
>announced a deal nobody would be all that thrilled. Becuase it's Apple and
>Apogee somehow it's a bigger news story. Which is fine, bully for them,
I
>was just pointing out that this "story" has longer legs because of the two
>companies involved.
>
>>>
>>>As far as the "grand strategy" stuff, and if Apple is threatening Digi
>or
>>>whatever. Think for a minute about how much money Apple makes from people
>>>who make music on Macs. Then think about how much money they make from
>people
>>>who buy iPods and download from iTunes. Then think about the fact that
>Jobs
>>>is on the board at Disney and the new iPods do video. Do you think Apple
>>>*as a company* is fundamentally concerned with pro audio users? Would
they
>>>like to make money there? Sure. But would they trade 10% more of the pro
>>>audio market for 10% of the MP3 player market? I wouldn't think so.
>>>
>>>Thus, to me this is a very nice, and probably very expensive, native system.
>>>Not fundamentally different than a very nice RME system on either platform.
>>>
>>>
>>>TCB
>>
>>I don't think it's that cut and dry. I don't think it's this part of Apple's
>>business vs. another part of their business. I think Apple is serious
about
>>pro Audio. The apogee thing is an example of it, and I think there will
>>be more to come. I don't think Apple will fire Digi, I think it would
take
>>Digi firing Apple to really get stuff started.
>>
>>Just my .02
>>
>>James
>
>I certainly don't think Apple WANTS people to quit using them for audio,
>and I don't expect Digi will move anywhere. However, LaMont was asking a
>question about "what does this mean for the DAW world" and that necessarily
>involves other companies.
>
>What I find most interesting is not the Apple vs. PC vs. Digi vs. Native
>or whatever else, but why everyone hates Digi so much. To be perfectly honest
>I think a healthy amount of that is jealousy. No matter what most of us
say,
>given the choice between a massively tricked out PT rig with lots of I/O
>and DSP f/x and the bestest bestest native system out there (or even the
>best PARIS system out there), nearly all of us would have a sudden change
>of faith and take the Digi hardware. Even I would and I'm much more of a
>synth/sample guy than a rock'n'roll guy. So that's reason #1. I think reason
>#2 is there is a perception that Digi uses its place as a "niche monopolist"
>to abuse their customers, price gouge, and generally behave badly. In its
>time PARIS was a fantastic competitor to PT because it was cheaper, looked
>better, and sounded better. It didn't become a truly viable competitor to
>PT for a bunch of reasons that have been hashed out here ad infinitum, but
>include the cratering of Ensoniq, the later cratering of E-mu, the fact
that
>St. Croix was a 24 carat arrogant ass at times, increased usability of cheaper
>native systems, and so on.
>
>But what I think people like LaMont are looking for is not Digi getting
knocked
>off the throne or Apple owning the DAW market, but for Digi to have at least
>one competitor with deep pockets and quality products to at least make Digi
>behave better. Here's the thing--I don't think that competitor is going
to
>come along. It would be too hard a market to break (PARIS being an example
>where a similar product superior in many ways never really made a dent)
and
>most people with the money to own big PT rigs don't really want to change
>all that much even if they do whine about Digi sometimes. So, I think the
>long term threat to Digi is the simple erosion of their customter base by
>faster, cheaper, and better native systems. But for the sake of LaMont (and
>others) I hope I'm wrong and someone is tinkering away right now on a really
>super DSP system that will sell for $2k and really do something special.
>
>
>TCB
>
I totally agree with you! I think that is part of the reason some people
don't like Apple, it's the high prices and thus perceived arrogance.
In the past I've always looked at Apple Hardware kind of like aircraft parts.
If you compared aircraft parts to auto parts, the aircraft parts cost a
lot more because they make a lot less of them and they use more expensive
materials. There kind of like custom made parts. If you take the G5 case
as an example, the case is made out of aluminum. All the bends and all the
little holes cost time and more money to manufacture. It's hard to find
a flaw on those cases, and you'll never find a burr. There not cheap to
manufacture, and the quality is high, it's part of their wow factor. PowerBooks
were made of of titanium, not everybody needs or wants that. I guess it's
different ways of looking at things. I'd sure like to see cheaper Macs.
Yes I would take a free fully loaded PT HD 192 system, but one factor is
because they are now on par with Paris sound wise.
James
P.S. I'd also like to see a reasonably priced integrated super DAW!
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
>>>>
>>>>Okay, so what does this product mean?
>>>>1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
>>>>
>>>>2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with the Big
>>>kohuna
>>>>AKA Digidesign??
>>>>
>>>>3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the Mac's
>>>cpu(s)
>>>>handle the recording and plugins?
>>>>
>>>>4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay DAW
>>manfacturer
>>>>"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part Native
>solution/DSP
>>>>that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been talking
>>about???
>>>>
>>>>If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the real
>forward
>>>>thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You guys
>>Rock!!!..
>>>>Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of sorts...:)
>>>>
>>>>Interesting developments..Wow...
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63868 is a reply to message #63863] |
Fri, 27 January 2006 16:31 |
Bill Lorentzen
Messages: 140
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
FYI, I put together a Mac 24 track recording rig last summer which included
and Apogee AD16X. Apogee advised that they were unable to perfect the
Firewire drivers they had promised for the AD16X and the maximum throughput
could only be achieved reliably with lightpipe into an RME ADAT interface on
the Mac. They just want to be able sell their card instead of having to
refer people to RME.
Bill
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:43da7493$1@linux...
>
> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>I've been meaning to write about this for a few days but have spent
>>>>literally
>>>>every minute of the past few days either at work, playing shows, or
>>>>blind
>>>>drunk. So . . .
>>>>
>>>>To me this really product is not much news, and if it were any other two
>>>>companies it wouldn't even be news at all. As I said before, DSP systems
>>>>are there for people who are willing to pay the big bucks to track with
>>>almost
>>>>no latency. Native systems are for everyone else. This is just a PCI-E
>>native
>>>>system. That matters to Apple because the reports are that their next
> series
>>>>of desktops won't have anything but PCI-E slots.
>>>
>>>I think it's news in the audio world any time Apogee comes out with a new
>>>product. Apogee is significant, their converters are a professional
>>>industry
>>>standard. Converters are subjective.
>>
>>Absolutely, that's what I was saying. If PreSonus and Hewlett-Packard had
>>announced a deal nobody would be all that thrilled. Becuase it's Apple and
>>Apogee somehow it's a bigger news story. Which is fine, bully for them,
> I
>>was just pointing out that this "story" has longer legs because of the two
>>companies involved.
>>
>>>>
>>>>As far as the "grand strategy" stuff, and if Apple is threatening Digi
>>or
>>>>whatever. Think for a minute about how much money Apple makes from
>>>>people
>>>>who make music on Macs. Then think about how much money they make from
>>people
>>>>who buy iPods and download from iTunes. Then think about the fact that
>>Jobs
>>>>is on the board at Disney and the new iPods do video. Do you think Apple
>>>>*as a company* is fundamentally concerned with pro audio users? Would
> they
>>>>like to make money there? Sure. But would they trade 10% more of the pro
>>>>audio market for 10% of the MP3 player market? I wouldn't think so.
>>>>
>>>>Thus, to me this is a very nice, and probably very expensive, native
>>>>system.
>>>>Not fundamentally different than a very nice RME system on either
>>>>platform.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>TCB
>>>
>>>I don't think it's that cut and dry. I don't think it's this part of
>>>Apple's
>>>business vs. another part of their business. I think Apple is serious
> about
>>>pro Audio. The apogee thing is an example of it, and I think there will
>>>be more to come. I don't think Apple will fire Digi, I think it would
> take
>>>Digi firing Apple to really get stuff started.
>>>
>>>Just my .02
>>>
>>>James
>>
>>I certainly don't think Apple WANTS people to quit using them for audio,
>>and I don't expect Digi will move anywhere. However, LaMont was asking a
>>question about "what does this mean for the DAW world" and that
>>necessarily
>>involves other companies.
>>
>>What I find most interesting is not the Apple vs. PC vs. Digi vs. Native
>>or whatever else, but why everyone hates Digi so much. To be perfectly
>>honest
>>I think a healthy amount of that is jealousy. No matter what most of us
> say,
>>given the choice between a massively tricked out PT rig with lots of I/O
>>and DSP f/x and the bestest bestest native system out there (or even the
>>best PARIS system out there), nearly all of us would have a sudden change
>>of faith and take the Digi hardware. Even I would and I'm much more of a
>>synth/sample guy than a rock'n'roll guy. So that's reason #1. I think
>>reason
>>#2 is there is a perception that Digi uses its place as a "niche
>>monopolist"
>>to abuse their customers, price gouge, and generally behave badly. In its
>>time PARIS was a fantastic competitor to PT because it was cheaper, looked
>>better, and sounded better. It didn't become a truly viable competitor to
>>PT for a bunch of reasons that have been hashed out here ad infinitum, but
>>include the cratering of Ensoniq, the later cratering of E-mu, the fact
> that
>>St. Croix was a 24 carat arrogant ass at times, increased usability of
>>cheaper
>>native systems, and so on.
>>
>>But what I think people like LaMont are looking for is not Digi getting
> knocked
>>off the throne or Apple owning the DAW market, but for Digi to have at
>>least
>>one competitor with deep pockets and quality products to at least make
>>Digi
>>behave better. Here's the thing--I don't think that competitor is going
> to
>>come along. It would be too hard a market to break (PARIS being an example
>>where a similar product superior in many ways never really made a dent)
> and
>>most people with the money to own big PT rigs don't really want to change
>>all that much even if they do whine about Digi sometimes. So, I think the
>>long term threat to Digi is the simple erosion of their customter base by
>>faster, cheaper, and better native systems. But for the sake of LaMont
>>(and
>>others) I hope I'm wrong and someone is tinkering away right now on a
>>really
>>super DSP system that will sell for $2k and really do something special.
>>
>>
>>TCB
>>
>
> I totally agree with you! I think that is part of the reason some people
> don't like Apple, it's the high prices and thus perceived arrogance.
>
> In the past I've always looked at Apple Hardware kind of like aircraft
> parts.
> If you compared aircraft parts to auto parts, the aircraft parts cost a
> lot more because they make a lot less of them and they use more expensive
> materials. There kind of like custom made parts. If you take the G5 case
> as an example, the case is made out of aluminum. All the bends and all
> the
> little holes cost time and more money to manufacture. It's hard to find
> a flaw on those cases, and you'll never find a burr. There not cheap to
> manufacture, and the quality is high, it's part of their wow factor.
> PowerBooks
> were made of of titanium, not everybody needs or wants that. I guess it's
> different ways of looking at things. I'd sure like to see cheaper Macs.
>
> Yes I would take a free fully loaded PT HD 192 system, but one factor is
> because they are now on par with Paris sound wise.
>
> James
>
> P.S. I'd also like to see a reasonably priced integrated super DAW!
>
>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
>>>>>
>>>>>Okay, so what does this product mean?
>>>>>1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
>>>>>
>>>>>2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with the Big
>>>>kohuna
>>>>>AKA Digidesign??
>>>>>
>>>>>3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the Mac's
>>>>cpu(s)
>>>>>handle the recording and plugins?
>>>>>
>>>>>4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay DAW
>>>manfacturer
>>>>>"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part Native
>>solution/DSP
>>>>>that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been talking
>>>about???
>>>>>
>>>>>If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the real
>>forward
>>>>>thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You guys
>>>Rock!!!..
>>>>>Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of sorts...:)
>>>>>
>>>>>Interesting developments..Wow...
>>>>
>>>
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63872 is a reply to message #63855] |
Fri, 27 January 2006 22:38 |
emarenot
Messages: 345
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Amen.
Well said.
I agree. The threat to digi is in the world of faster, cheaper native
machines. I really thought that the current generation of machines would be
"the one." But my vote is one, or possibly two more generations. What
continues to amaze me is how freakin' relavent Paris still is. Latency?
What's latency?
MR
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:43da2c42$1@linux...
>
> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>I've been meaning to write about this for a few days but have spent
literally
> >>every minute of the past few days either at work, playing shows, or
blind
> >>drunk. So . . .
> >>
> >>To me this really product is not much news, and if it were any other two
> >>companies it wouldn't even be news at all. As I said before, DSP systems
> >>are there for people who are willing to pay the big bucks to track with
> >almost
> >>no latency. Native systems are for everyone else. This is just a PCI-E
> native
> >>system. That matters to Apple because the reports are that their next
series
> >>of desktops won't have anything but PCI-E slots.
> >
> >I think it's news in the audio world any time Apogee comes out with a new
> >product. Apogee is significant, their converters are a professional
industry
> >standard. Converters are subjective.
>
> Absolutely, that's what I was saying. If PreSonus and Hewlett-Packard had
> announced a deal nobody would be all that thrilled. Becuase it's Apple and
> Apogee somehow it's a bigger news story. Which is fine, bully for them, I
> was just pointing out that this "story" has longer legs because of the two
> companies involved.
>
> >>
> >>As far as the "grand strategy" stuff, and if Apple is threatening Digi
> or
> >>whatever. Think for a minute about how much money Apple makes from
people
> >>who make music on Macs. Then think about how much money they make from
> people
> >>who buy iPods and download from iTunes. Then think about the fact that
> Jobs
> >>is on the board at Disney and the new iPods do video. Do you think Apple
> >>*as a company* is fundamentally concerned with pro audio users? Would
they
> >>like to make money there? Sure. But would they trade 10% more of the pro
> >>audio market for 10% of the MP3 player market? I wouldn't think so.
> >>
> >>Thus, to me this is a very nice, and probably very expensive, native
system.
> >>Not fundamentally different than a very nice RME system on either
platform.
> >>
> >>
> >>TCB
> >
> >I don't think it's that cut and dry. I don't think it's this part of
Apple's
> >business vs. another part of their business. I think Apple is serious
about
> >pro Audio. The apogee thing is an example of it, and I think there will
> >be more to come. I don't think Apple will fire Digi, I think it would
take
> >Digi firing Apple to really get stuff started.
> >
> >Just my .02
> >
> >James
>
> I certainly don't think Apple WANTS people to quit using them for audio,
> and I don't expect Digi will move anywhere. However, LaMont was asking a
> question about "what does this mean for the DAW world" and that
necessarily
> involves other companies.
>
> What I find most interesting is not the Apple vs. PC vs. Digi vs. Native
> or whatever else, but why everyone hates Digi so much. To be perfectly
honest
> I think a healthy amount of that is jealousy. No matter what most of us
say,
> given the choice between a massively tricked out PT rig with lots of I/O
> and DSP f/x and the bestest bestest native system out there (or even the
> best PARIS system out there), nearly all of us would have a sudden change
> of faith and take the Digi hardware. Even I would and I'm much more of a
> synth/sample guy than a rock'n'roll guy. So that's reason #1. I think
reason
> #2 is there is a perception that Digi uses its place as a "niche
monopolist"
> to abuse their customers, price gouge, and generally behave badly. In its
> time PARIS was a fantastic competitor to PT because it was cheaper, looked
> better, and sounded better. It didn't become a truly viable competitor to
> PT for a bunch of reasons that have been hashed out here ad infinitum, but
> include the cratering of Ensoniq, the later cratering of E-mu, the fact
that
> St. Croix was a 24 carat arrogant ass at times, increased usability of
cheaper
> native systems, and so on.
>
> But what I think people like LaMont are looking for is not Digi getting
knocked
> off the throne or Apple owning the DAW market, but for Digi to have at
least
> one competitor with deep pockets and quality products to at least make
Digi
> behave better. Here's the thing--I don't think that competitor is going to
> come along. It would be too hard a market to break (PARIS being an example
> where a similar product superior in many ways never really made a dent)
and
> most people with the money to own big PT rigs don't really want to change
> all that much even if they do whine about Digi sometimes. So, I think the
> long term threat to Digi is the simple erosion of their customter base by
> faster, cheaper, and better native systems. But for the sake of LaMont
(and
> others) I hope I'm wrong and someone is tinkering away right now on a
really
> super DSP system that will sell for $2k and really do something special.
>
>
> TCB
>
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
> >>>
> >>>Okay, so what does this product mean?
> >>>1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
> >>>
> >>>2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with the Big
> >>kohuna
> >>>AKA Digidesign??
> >>>
> >>>3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the Mac's
> >>cpu(s)
> >>>handle the recording and plugins?
> >>>
> >>>4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay DAW
> >manfacturer
> >>>"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part Native
> solution/DSP
> >>>that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been talking
> >about???
> >>>
> >>>If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the real
> forward
> >>>thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You guys
> >Rock!!!..
> >>>Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of sorts...:)
> >>>
> >>>Interesting developments..Wow...
> >>
> >
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63873 is a reply to message #63872] |
Fri, 27 January 2006 21:07 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"Mike R." <emarenot@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Amen.
>Well said.
>I agree. The threat to digi is in the world of faster, cheaper native
>machines. I really thought that the current generation of machines would
be
>"the one." But my vote is one, or possibly two more generations. What
>continues to amaze me is how freakin' relavent Paris still is. Latency?
>What's latency?
>MR
9 years later!!!
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:43da2c42$1@linux...
>>
>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>I've been meaning to write about this for a few days but have spent
>literally
>> >>every minute of the past few days either at work, playing shows, or
>blind
>> >>drunk. So . . .
>> >>
>> >>To me this really product is not much news, and if it were any other
two
>> >>companies it wouldn't even be news at all. As I said before, DSP systems
>> >>are there for people who are willing to pay the big bucks to track with
>> >almost
>> >>no latency. Native systems are for everyone else. This is just a PCI-E
>> native
>> >>system. That matters to Apple because the reports are that their next
>series
>> >>of desktops won't have anything but PCI-E slots.
>> >
>> >I think it's news in the audio world any time Apogee comes out with a
new
>> >product. Apogee is significant, their converters are a professional
>industry
>> >standard. Converters are subjective.
>>
>> Absolutely, that's what I was saying. If PreSonus and Hewlett-Packard
had
>> announced a deal nobody would be all that thrilled. Becuase it's Apple
and
>> Apogee somehow it's a bigger news story. Which is fine, bully for them,
I
>> was just pointing out that this "story" has longer legs because of the
two
>> companies involved.
>>
>> >>
>> >>As far as the "grand strategy" stuff, and if Apple is threatening Digi
>> or
>> >>whatever. Think for a minute about how much money Apple makes from
>people
>> >>who make music on Macs. Then think about how much money they make from
>> people
>> >>who buy iPods and download from iTunes. Then think about the fact that
>> Jobs
>> >>is on the board at Disney and the new iPods do video. Do you think Apple
>> >>*as a company* is fundamentally concerned with pro audio users? Would
>they
>> >>like to make money there? Sure. But would they trade 10% more of the
pro
>> >>audio market for 10% of the MP3 player market? I wouldn't think so.
>> >>
>> >>Thus, to me this is a very nice, and probably very expensive, native
>system.
>> >>Not fundamentally different than a very nice RME system on either
>platform.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>TCB
>> >
>> >I don't think it's that cut and dry. I don't think it's this part of
>Apple's
>> >business vs. another part of their business. I think Apple is serious
>about
>> >pro Audio. The apogee thing is an example of it, and I think there will
>> >be more to come. I don't think Apple will fire Digi, I think it would
>take
>> >Digi firing Apple to really get stuff started.
>> >
>> >Just my .02
>> >
>> >James
>>
>> I certainly don't think Apple WANTS people to quit using them for audio,
>> and I don't expect Digi will move anywhere. However, LaMont was asking
a
>> question about "what does this mean for the DAW world" and that
>necessarily
>> involves other companies.
>>
>> What I find most interesting is not the Apple vs. PC vs. Digi vs. Native
>> or whatever else, but why everyone hates Digi so much. To be perfectly
>honest
>> I think a healthy amount of that is jealousy. No matter what most of us
>say,
>> given the choice between a massively tricked out PT rig with lots of I/O
>> and DSP f/x and the bestest bestest native system out there (or even the
>> best PARIS system out there), nearly all of us would have a sudden change
>> of faith and take the Digi hardware. Even I would and I'm much more of
a
>> synth/sample guy than a rock'n'roll guy. So that's reason #1. I think
>reason
>> #2 is there is a perception that Digi uses its place as a "niche
>monopolist"
>> to abuse their customers, price gouge, and generally behave badly. In
its
>> time PARIS was a fantastic competitor to PT because it was cheaper, looked
>> better, and sounded better. It didn't become a truly viable competitor
to
>> PT for a bunch of reasons that have been hashed out here ad infinitum,
but
>> include the cratering of Ensoniq, the later cratering of E-mu, the fact
>that
>> St. Croix was a 24 carat arrogant ass at times, increased usability of
>cheaper
>> native systems, and so on.
>>
>> But what I think people like LaMont are looking for is not Digi getting
>knocked
>> off the throne or Apple owning the DAW market, but for Digi to have at
>least
>> one competitor with deep pockets and quality products to at least make
>Digi
>> behave better. Here's the thing--I don't think that competitor is going
to
>> come along. It would be too hard a market to break (PARIS being an example
>> where a similar product superior in many ways never really made a dent)
>and
>> most people with the money to own big PT rigs don't really want to change
>> all that much even if they do whine about Digi sometimes. So, I think
the
>> long term threat to Digi is the simple erosion of their customter base
by
>> faster, cheaper, and better native systems. But for the sake of LaMont
>(and
>> others) I hope I'm wrong and someone is tinkering away right now on a
>really
>> super DSP system that will sell for $2k and really do something special.
>>
>>
>> TCB
>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
>> >>>
>> >>>Okay, so what does this product mean?
>> >>>1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
>> >>>
>> >>>2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with the
Big
>> >>kohuna
>> >>>AKA Digidesign??
>> >>>
>> >>>3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the Mac's
>> >>cpu(s)
>> >>>handle the recording and plugins?
>> >>>
>> >>>4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay
DAW
>> >manfacturer
>> >>>"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part Native
>> solution/DSP
>> >>>that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been talking
>> >about???
>> >>>
>> >>>If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the real
>> forward
>> >>>thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You guys
>> >Rock!!!..
>> >>>Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of sorts...:)
>> >>>
>> >>>Interesting developments..Wow...
>> >>
>> >
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63875 is a reply to message #63873] |
Fri, 27 January 2006 23:13 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Yep. I totally agree. I built this dual core machine in hopes that it would
have enough horsepower to run at 64k buffers under heavy plugin loads with
large track counts. Not a chance in hell. It's remarkably fast and powerful
so it's capable of what I want at higher buffer settings so for mixing with
PDC using UAD-1 cards in SX so in that respect, it's filling my
needs.......but it's a wuss compared to Paris in the DAW torture scenario of
a dub session where it's necessary to work quickly and there are already
lots of tracks playing back and lots being added/punched. Paris still rules
in this respect.
Deej
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:43daedeb$1@linux...
>
> "Mike R." <emarenot@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Amen.
> >Well said.
> >I agree. The threat to digi is in the world of faster, cheaper native
> >machines. I really thought that the current generation of machines would
> be
> >"the one." But my vote is one, or possibly two more generations. What
> >continues to amaze me is how freakin' relavent Paris still is. Latency?
> >What's latency?
> >MR
>
> 9 years later!!!
>
>
> >"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:43da2c42$1@linux...
> >>
> >> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>I've been meaning to write about this for a few days but have spent
> >literally
> >> >>every minute of the past few days either at work, playing shows, or
> >blind
> >> >>drunk. So . . .
> >> >>
> >> >>To me this really product is not much news, and if it were any other
> two
> >> >>companies it wouldn't even be news at all. As I said before, DSP
systems
> >> >>are there for people who are willing to pay the big bucks to track
with
> >> >almost
> >> >>no latency. Native systems are for everyone else. This is just a
PCI-E
> >> native
> >> >>system. That matters to Apple because the reports are that their next
> >series
> >> >>of desktops won't have anything but PCI-E slots.
> >> >
> >> >I think it's news in the audio world any time Apogee comes out with a
> new
> >> >product. Apogee is significant, their converters are a professional
> >industry
> >> >standard. Converters are subjective.
> >>
> >> Absolutely, that's what I was saying. If PreSonus and Hewlett-Packard
> had
> >> announced a deal nobody would be all that thrilled. Becuase it's Apple
> and
> >> Apogee somehow it's a bigger news story. Which is fine, bully for them,
> I
> >> was just pointing out that this "story" has longer legs because of the
> two
> >> companies involved.
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>As far as the "grand strategy" stuff, and if Apple is threatening
Digi
> >> or
> >> >>whatever. Think for a minute about how much money Apple makes from
> >people
> >> >>who make music on Macs. Then think about how much money they make
from
> >> people
> >> >>who buy iPods and download from iTunes. Then think about the fact
that
> >> Jobs
> >> >>is on the board at Disney and the new iPods do video. Do you think
Apple
> >> >>*as a company* is fundamentally concerned with pro audio users? Would
> >they
> >> >>like to make money there? Sure. But would they trade 10% more of the
> pro
> >> >>audio market for 10% of the MP3 player market? I wouldn't think so.
> >> >>
> >> >>Thus, to me this is a very nice, and probably very expensive, native
> >system.
> >> >>Not fundamentally different than a very nice RME system on either
> >platform.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>TCB
> >> >
> >> >I don't think it's that cut and dry. I don't think it's this part of
> >Apple's
> >> >business vs. another part of their business. I think Apple is serious
> >about
> >> >pro Audio. The apogee thing is an example of it, and I think there
will
> >> >be more to come. I don't think Apple will fire Digi, I think it would
> >take
> >> >Digi firing Apple to really get stuff started.
> >> >
> >> >Just my .02
> >> >
> >> >James
> >>
> >> I certainly don't think Apple WANTS people to quit using them for
audio,
> >> and I don't expect Digi will move anywhere. However, LaMont was asking
> a
> >> question about "what does this mean for the DAW world" and that
> >necessarily
> >> involves other companies.
> >>
> >> What I find most interesting is not the Apple vs. PC vs. Digi vs.
Native
> >> or whatever else, but why everyone hates Digi so much. To be perfectly
> >honest
> >> I think a healthy amount of that is jealousy. No matter what most of us
> >say,
> >> given the choice between a massively tricked out PT rig with lots of
I/O
> >> and DSP f/x and the bestest bestest native system out there (or even
the
> >> best PARIS system out there), nearly all of us would have a sudden
change
> >> of faith and take the Digi hardware. Even I would and I'm much more of
> a
> >> synth/sample guy than a rock'n'roll guy. So that's reason #1. I think
> >reason
> >> #2 is there is a perception that Digi uses its place as a "niche
> >monopolist"
> >> to abuse their customers, price gouge, and generally behave badly. In
> its
> >> time PARIS was a fantastic competitor to PT because it was cheaper,
looked
> >> better, and sounded better. It didn't become a truly viable competitor
> to
> >> PT for a bunch of reasons that have been hashed out here ad infinitum,
> but
> >> include the cratering of Ensoniq, the later cratering of E-mu, the fact
> >that
> >> St. Croix was a 24 carat arrogant ass at times, increased usability of
> >cheaper
> >> native systems, and so on.
> >>
> >> But what I think people like LaMont are looking for is not Digi getting
> >knocked
> >> off the throne or Apple owning the DAW market, but for Digi to have at
> >least
> >> one competitor with deep pockets and quality products to at least make
> >Digi
> >> behave better. Here's the thing--I don't think that competitor is going
> to
> >> come along. It would be too hard a market to break (PARIS being an
example
> >> where a similar product superior in many ways never really made a dent)
> >and
> >> most people with the money to own big PT rigs don't really want to
change
> >> all that much even if they do whine about Digi sometimes. So, I think
> the
> >> long term threat to Digi is the simple erosion of their customter base
> by
> >> faster, cheaper, and better native systems. But for the sake of LaMont
> >(and
> >> others) I hope I'm wrong and someone is tinkering away right now on a
> >really
> >> super DSP system that will sell for $2k and really do something
special.
> >>
> >>
> >> TCB
> >>
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
> >> >>>
> >> >>>Okay, so what does this product mean?
> >> >>>1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
> >> >>>
> >> >>>2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with the
> Big
> >> >>kohuna
> >> >>>AKA Digidesign??
> >> >>>
> >> >>>3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the
Mac's
> >> >>cpu(s)
> >> >>>handle the recording and plugins?
> >> >>>
> >> >>>4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay
> DAW
> >> >manfacturer
> >> >>>"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part
Native
> >> solution/DSP
> >> >>>that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been
talking
> >> >about???
> >> >>>
> >> >>>If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the
real
> >> forward
> >> >>>thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You
guys
> >> >Rock!!!..
> >> >>>Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of
sorts...:)
> >> >>>
> >> >>>Interesting developments..Wow...
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63879 is a reply to message #63875] |
Sat, 28 January 2006 08:43 |
EK Sound
Messages: 939
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Direct monitor is your friend here... if you have enough buses
available, use Paris as a monitor mixer and place SX in direct monitor
mode. This will allow you to record to SX and monitor/effect in real
time using Paris. We do this here using the DM2K, but there is no
reason it wouldn't work well with Paris. Once you have certain tracks
comitted (you don't intend to record to them again, or at least not
right now), you can assign them to a main stereo out to free up buses.
Simply leave the SX channel faders at unity, and mix in Paris. Once
you aren't recording on a track, you can also apply insert plugs or FX
in SX.
David.
DJ wrote:
> Yep. I totally agree. I built this dual core machine in hopes that it would
> have enough horsepower to run at 64k buffers under heavy plugin loads with
> large track counts. Not a chance in hell. It's remarkably fast and powerful
> so it's capable of what I want at higher buffer settings so for mixing with
> PDC using UAD-1 cards in SX so in that respect, it's filling my
> needs.......but it's a wuss compared to Paris in the DAW torture scenario of
> a dub session where it's necessary to work quickly and there are already
> lots of tracks playing back and lots being added/punched. Paris still rules
> in this respect.
>
> Deej
>
>
> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:43daedeb$1@linux...
>
>>"Mike R." <emarenot@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Amen.
>>>Well said.
>>>I agree. The threat to digi is in the world of faster, cheaper native
>>>machines. I really thought that the current generation of machines would
>>
>>be
>>
>>>"the one." But my vote is one, or possibly two more generations. What
>>>continues to amaze me is how freakin' relavent Paris still is. Latency?
>>>What's latency?
>>>MR
>>
>>9 years later!!!
>>
>>
>>
>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:43da2c42$1@linux...
>>>
>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I've been meaning to write about this for a few days but have spent
>>>
>>>literally
>>>
>>>>>>every minute of the past few days either at work, playing shows, or
>>>
>>>blind
>>>
>>>>>>drunk. So . . .
>>>>>>
>>>>>>To me this really product is not much news, and if it were any other
>>
>>two
>>
>>>>>>companies it wouldn't even be news at all. As I said before, DSP
>
> systems
>
>>>>>>are there for people who are willing to pay the big bucks to track
>
> with
>
>>>>>almost
>>>>>
>>>>>>no latency. Native systems are for everyone else. This is just a
>
> PCI-E
>
>>>>native
>>>>
>>>>>>system. That matters to Apple because the reports are that their next
>>>
>>>series
>>>
>>>>>>of desktops won't have anything but PCI-E slots.
>>>>>
>>>>>I think it's news in the audio world any time Apogee comes out with a
>>
>>new
>>
>>>>>product. Apogee is significant, their converters are a professional
>>>
>>>industry
>>>
>>>>>standard. Converters are subjective.
>>>>
>>>>Absolutely, that's what I was saying. If PreSonus and Hewlett-Packard
>>
>>had
>>
>>>>announced a deal nobody would be all that thrilled. Becuase it's Apple
>>
>>and
>>
>>>>Apogee somehow it's a bigger news story. Which is fine, bully for them,
>>
>>I
>>
>>>>was just pointing out that this "story" has longer legs because of the
>>
>>two
>>
>>>>companies involved.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>As far as the "grand strategy" stuff, and if Apple is threatening
>
> Digi
>
>>>>or
>>>>
>>>>>>whatever. Think for a minute about how much money Apple makes from
>>>
>>>people
>>>
>>>>>>who make music on Macs. Then think about how much money they make
>
> from
>
>>>>people
>>>>
>>>>>>who buy iPods and download from iTunes. Then think about the fact
>
> that
>
>>>>Jobs
>>>>
>>>>>>is on the board at Disney and the new iPods do video. Do you think
>
> Apple
>
>>>>>>*as a company* is fundamentally concerned with pro audio users? Would
>>>
>>>they
>>>
>>>>>>like to make money there? Sure. But would they trade 10% more of the
>>
>>pro
>>
>>>>>>audio market for 10% of the MP3 player market? I wouldn't think so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thus, to me this is a very nice, and probably very expensive, native
>>>
>>>system.
>>>
>>>>>>Not fundamentally different than a very nice RME system on either
>>>
>>>platform.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>TCB
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't think it's that cut and dry. I don't think it's this part of
>>>
>>>Apple's
>>>
>>>>>business vs. another part of their business. I think Apple is serious
>>>
>>>about
>>>
>>>>>pro Audio. The apogee thing is an example of it, and I think there
>
> will
>
>>>>>be more to come. I don't think Apple will fire Digi, I think it would
>>>
>>>take
>>>
>>>>>Digi firing Apple to really get stuff started.
>>>>>
>>>>>Just my .02
>>>>>
>>>>>James
>>>>
>>>>I certainly don't think Apple WANTS people to quit using them for
>
> audio,
>
>>>>and I don't expect Digi will move anywhere. However, LaMont was asking
>>
>>a
>>
>>>>question about "what does this mean for the DAW world" and that
>>>
>>>necessarily
>>>
>>>>involves other companies.
>>>>
>>>>What I find most interesting is not the Apple vs. PC vs. Digi vs.
>
> Native
>
>>>>or whatever else, but why everyone hates Digi so much. To be perfectly
>>>
>>>honest
>>>
>>>>I think a healthy amount of that is jealousy. No matter what most of us
>>>
>>>say,
>>>
>>>>given the choice between a massively tricked out PT rig with lots of
>
> I/O
>
>>>>and DSP f/x and the bestest bestest native system out there (or even
>
> the
>
>>>>best PARIS system out there), nearly all of us would have a sudden
>
> change
>
>>>>of faith and take the Digi hardware. Even I would and I'm much more of
>>
>>a
>>
>>>>synth/sample guy than a rock'n'roll guy. So that's reason #1. I think
>>>
>>>reason
>>>
>>>>#2 is there is a perception that Digi uses its place as a "niche
>>>
>>>monopolist"
>>>
>>>>to abuse their customers, price gouge, and generally behave badly. In
>>
>>its
>>
>>>>time PARIS was a fantastic competitor to PT because it was cheaper,
>
> looked
>
>>>>better, and sounded better. It didn't become a truly viable competitor
>>
>>to
>>
>>>>PT for a bunch of reasons that have been hashed out here ad infinitum,
>>
>>but
>>
>>>>include the cratering of Ensoniq, the later cratering of E-mu, the fact
>>>
>>>that
>>>
>>>>St. Croix was a 24 carat arrogant ass at times, increased usability of
>>>
>>>cheaper
>>>
>>>>native systems, and so on.
>>>>
>>>>But what I think people like LaMont are looking for is not Digi getting
>>>
>>>knocked
>>>
>>>>off the throne or Apple owning the DAW market, but for Digi to have at
>>>
>>>least
>>>
>>>>one competitor with deep pockets and quality products to at least make
>>>
>>>Digi
>>>
>>>>behave better. Here's the thing--I don't think that competitor is going
>>
>>to
>>
>>>>come along. It would be too hard a market to break (PARIS being an
>
> example
>
>>>>where a similar product superior in many ways never really made a dent)
>>>
>>>and
>>>
>>>>most people with the money to own big PT rigs don't really want to
>
> change
>
>>>>all that much even if they do whine about Digi sometimes. So, I think
>>
>>the
>>
>>>>long term threat to Digi is the simple erosion of their customter base
>>
>>by
>>
>>>>faster, cheaper, and better native systems. But for the sake of LaMont
>>>
>>>(and
>>>
>>>>others) I hope I'm wrong and someone is tinkering away right now on a
>>>
>>>really
>>>
>>>>super DSP system that will sell for $2k and really do something
>
> special.
>
>>>>
>>>>TCB
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Okay, so what does this product mean?
>>>>>>>1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with the
>>
>>Big
>>
>>>>>>kohuna
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>AKA Digidesign??
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the
>
> Mac's
>
>>>>>>cpu(s)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>handle the recording and plugins?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay
>>
>>DAW
>>
>>>>>manfacturer
>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part
>
> Native
>
>>>>solution/DSP
>>>>
>>>>>>>that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been
>
> talking
>
>>>>>about???
>>>>>
>>>>>>>If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the
>
> real
>
>>>>forward
>>>>
>>>>>>>thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You
>
> guys
>
>>>>>Rock!!!..
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of
>
> sorts...:)
>
>>>>>>>Interesting developments..Wow...
>>>>>>
>>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63884 is a reply to message #63875] |
Sat, 28 January 2006 11:01 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
DJ,
That's my point I this endless love affair with native DAW's. I plan to use
the natives as a compositional tool,maybe even to track now & then, but I'm
sold out on DSP based DAWs be-it Paris or PTHD..I'm not about to keep going
thru the motions of the constant PC/Mac upgrade paths..Nope..I'm done..
I started this thread to open he question about the lack of a PT HD competior,
but it seems that most are satified with their native based DAW...I'm not.Some
manufacture will give me and others the goods...And, yes, I'll hold mt breath
:)
Lamont
"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>Yep. I totally agree. I built this dual core machine in hopes that it would
>have enough horsepower to run at 64k buffers under heavy plugin loads with
>large track counts. Not a chance in hell. It's remarkably fast and powerful
>so it's capable of what I want at higher buffer settings so for mixing with
>PDC using UAD-1 cards in SX so in that respect, it's filling my
>needs.......but it's a wuss compared to Paris in the DAW torture scenario
of
>a dub session where it's necessary to work quickly and there are already
>lots of tracks playing back and lots being added/punched. Paris still rules
>in this respect.
>
>Deej
>
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:43daedeb$1@linux...
>>
>> "Mike R." <emarenot@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >Amen.
>> >Well said.
>> >I agree. The threat to digi is in the world of faster, cheaper native
>> >machines. I really thought that the current generation of machines would
>> be
>> >"the one." But my vote is one, or possibly two more generations. What
>> >continues to amaze me is how freakin' relavent Paris still is. Latency?
>> >What's latency?
>> >MR
>>
>> 9 years later!!!
>>
>>
>> >"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:43da2c42$1@linux...
>> >>
>> >> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>I've been meaning to write about this for a few days but have spent
>> >literally
>> >> >>every minute of the past few days either at work, playing shows,
or
>> >blind
>> >> >>drunk. So . . .
>> >> >>
>> >> >>To me this really product is not much news, and if it were any other
>> two
>> >> >>companies it wouldn't even be news at all. As I said before, DSP
>systems
>> >> >>are there for people who are willing to pay the big bucks to track
>with
>> >> >almost
>> >> >>no latency. Native systems are for everyone else. This is just a
>PCI-E
>> >> native
>> >> >>system. That matters to Apple because the reports are that their
next
>> >series
>> >> >>of desktops won't have anything but PCI-E slots.
>> >> >
>> >> >I think it's news in the audio world any time Apogee comes out with
a
>> new
>> >> >product. Apogee is significant, their converters are a professional
>> >industry
>> >> >standard. Converters are subjective.
>> >>
>> >> Absolutely, that's what I was saying. If PreSonus and Hewlett-Packard
>> had
>> >> announced a deal nobody would be all that thrilled. Becuase it's Apple
>> and
>> >> Apogee somehow it's a bigger news story. Which is fine, bully for them,
>> I
>> >> was just pointing out that this "story" has longer legs because of
the
>> two
>> >> companies involved.
>> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>As far as the "grand strategy" stuff, and if Apple is threatening
>Digi
>> >> or
>> >> >>whatever. Think for a minute about how much money Apple makes from
>> >people
>> >> >>who make music on Macs. Then think about how much money they make
>from
>> >> people
>> >> >>who buy iPods and download from iTunes. Then think about the fact
>that
>> >> Jobs
>> >> >>is on the board at Disney and the new iPods do video. Do you think
>Apple
>> >> >>*as a company* is fundamentally concerned with pro audio users? Would
>> >they
>> >> >>like to make money there? Sure. But would they trade 10% more of
the
>> pro
>> >> >>audio market for 10% of the MP3 player market? I wouldn't think so.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Thus, to me this is a very nice, and probably very expensive, native
>> >system.
>> >> >>Not fundamentally different than a very nice RME system on either
>> >platform.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>TCB
>> >> >
>> >> >I don't think it's that cut and dry. I don't think it's this part
of
>> >Apple's
>> >> >business vs. another part of their business. I think Apple is serious
>> >about
>> >> >pro Audio. The apogee thing is an example of it, and I think there
>will
>> >> >be more to come. I don't think Apple will fire Digi, I think it would
>> >take
>> >> >Digi firing Apple to really get stuff started.
>> >> >
>> >> >Just my .02
>> >> >
>> >> >James
>> >>
>> >> I certainly don't think Apple WANTS people to quit using them for
>audio,
>> >> and I don't expect Digi will move anywhere. However, LaMont was asking
>> a
>> >> question about "what does this mean for the DAW world" and that
>> >necessarily
>> >> involves other companies.
>> >>
>> >> What I find most interesting is not the Apple vs. PC vs. Digi vs.
>Native
>> >> or whatever else, but why everyone hates Digi so much. To be perfectly
>> >honest
>> >> I think a healthy amount of that is jealousy. No matter what most of
us
>> >say,
>> >> given the choice between a massively tricked out PT rig with lots of
>I/O
>> >> and DSP f/x and the bestest bestest native system out there (or even
>the
>> >> best PARIS system out there), nearly all of us would have a sudden
>change
>> >> of faith and take the Digi hardware. Even I would and I'm much more
of
>> a
>> >> synth/sample guy than a rock'n'roll guy. So that's reason #1. I think
>> >reason
>> >> #2 is there is a perception that Digi uses its place as a "niche
>> >monopolist"
>> >> to abuse their customers, price gouge, and generally behave badly.
In
>> its
>> >> time PARIS was a fantastic competitor to PT because it was cheaper,
>looked
>> >> better, and sounded better. It didn't become a truly viable competitor
>> to
>> >> PT for a bunch of reasons that have been hashed out here ad infinitum,
>> but
>> >> include the cratering of Ensoniq, the later cratering of E-mu, the
fact
>> >that
>> >> St. Croix was a 24 carat arrogant ass at times, increased usability
of
>> >cheaper
>> >> native systems, and so on.
>> >>
>> >> But what I think people like LaMont are looking for is not Digi getting
>> >knocked
>> >> off the throne or Apple owning the DAW market, but for Digi to have
at
>> >least
>> >> one competitor with deep pockets and quality products to at least make
>> >Digi
>> >> behave better. Here's the thing--I don't think that competitor is going
>> to
>> >> come along. It would be too hard a market to break (PARIS being an
>example
>> >> where a similar product superior in many ways never really made a dent)
>> >and
>> >> most people with the money to own big PT rigs don't really want to
>change
>> >> all that much even if they do whine about Digi sometimes. So, I think
>> the
>> >> long term threat to Digi is the simple erosion of their customter base
>> by
>> >> faster, cheaper, and better native systems. But for the sake of LaMont
>> >(and
>> >> others) I hope I'm wrong and someone is tinkering away right now on
a
>> >really
>> >> super DSP system that will sell for $2k and really do something
>special.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> TCB
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Okay, so what does this product mean?
>> >> >>>1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with
the
>> Big
>> >> >>kohuna
>> >> >>>AKA Digidesign??
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the
>Mac's
>> >> >>cpu(s)
>> >> >>>handle the recording and plugins?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay
>> DAW
>> >> >manfacturer
>> >> >>>"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part
>Native
>> >> solution/DSP
>> >> >>>that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been
>talking
>> >> >about???
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the
>real
>> >> forward
>> >> >>>thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You
>guys
>> >> >Rock!!!..
>> >> >>>Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of
>sorts...:)
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Interesting developments..Wow...
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63885 is a reply to message #63879] |
Sat, 28 January 2006 10:09 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Deej, your post reminded me of something I recently read on another
forum: that the latest OSX update did something to allow Logic to run
with a lower buffer than it used to require.
So I just tried it on a song I'm mixing. So far so good. Set the buffer
to 64k and the system seems to be running smoothly with Logic's CPU
meter at less than 10%. Nice.
So I tried a 32k buffer. Almost no increase in the CPU meter and it
still plays back great.
Lessee, there's 15 audio tracks, 1 MIDI track, 1 audio instrument track,
and 21 plugins (eqs, compressors, reverb). Not my most complex mix but
still impressive.
I'll have to try this on more complex mixes and during tracking, it
looks there's plenty of CPU available for a lot more tracks/plugins even
with a 32k buffer.
This is with a dual 2.5GHZ G5, 2.5Gb RAM, OSX 10.4.4, Logic 7.1.1. Has
anyone else noticed a buffer improvement with the latest Logic and OSX
on other Macs?
Cheers,
-Jamie
http://www.JamieKrutz.com
EK Sound wrote:
> Direct monitor is your friend here... if you have enough buses
> available, use Paris as a monitor mixer and place SX in direct monitor
> mode. This will allow you to record to SX and monitor/effect in real
> time using Paris. We do this here using the DM2K, but there is no
> reason it wouldn't work well with Paris. Once you have certain tracks
> comitted (you don't intend to record to them again, or at least not
> right now), you can assign them to a main stereo out to free up buses.
> Simply leave the SX channel faders at unity, and mix in Paris. Once
> you aren't recording on a track, you can also apply insert plugs or FX
> in SX.
>
> David.
>
> DJ wrote:
>> Yep. I totally agree. I built this dual core machine in hopes that it
>> would
>> have enough horsepower to run at 64k buffers under heavy plugin loads
>> with
>> large track counts. Not a chance in hell. It's remarkably fast and
>> powerful
>> so it's capable of what I want at higher buffer settings so for mixing
>> with
>> PDC using UAD-1 cards in SX so in that respect, it's filling my
>> needs.......but it's a wuss compared to Paris in the DAW torture
>> scenario of
>> a dub session where it's necessary to work quickly and there are already
>> lots of tracks playing back and lots being added/punched. Paris still
>> rules
>> in this respect.
>>
>> Deej
>>
>>
>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:43daedeb$1@linux...
>>
>>> "Mike R." <emarenot@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Amen.
>>>> Well said.
>>>> I agree. The threat to digi is in the world of faster, cheaper native
>>>> machines. I really thought that the current generation of machines
>>>> would
>>>
>>> be
>>>
>>>> "the one." But my vote is one, or possibly two more generations. What
>>>> continues to amaze me is how freakin' relavent Paris still is.
>>>> Latency?
>>>> What's latency?
>>>> MR
>>>
>>> 9 years later!!!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:43da2c42$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've been meaning to write about this for a few days but have spent
>>>>
>>>> literally
>>>>
>>>>>>> every minute of the past few days either at work, playing shows, or
>>>>
>>>> blind
>>>>
>>>>>>> drunk. So . . .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To me this really product is not much news, and if it were any other
>>>
>>> two
>>>
>>>>>>> companies it wouldn't even be news at all. As I said before, DSP
>>
>> systems
>>
>>>>>>> are there for people who are willing to pay the big bucks to track
>>
>> with
>>
>>>>>> almost
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> no latency. Native systems are for everyone else. This is just a
>>
>> PCI-E
>>
>>>>> native
>>>>>
>>>>>>> system. That matters to Apple because the reports are that their
>>>>>>> next
>>>>
>>>> series
>>>>
>>>>>>> of desktops won't have anything but PCI-E slots.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think it's news in the audio world any time Apogee comes out with a
>>>
>>> new
>>>
>>>>>> product. Apogee is significant, their converters are a professional
>>>>
>>>> industry
>>>>
>>>>>> standard. Converters are subjective.
>>>>>
>>>>> Absolutely, that's what I was saying. If PreSonus and Hewlett-Packard
>>>
>>> had
>>>
>>>>> announced a deal nobody would be all that thrilled. Becuase it's Apple
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>>>> Apogee somehow it's a bigger news story. Which is fine, bully for
>>>>> them,
>>>
>>> I
>>>
>>>>> was just pointing out that this "story" has longer legs because of the
>>>
>>> two
>>>
>>>>> companies involved.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> As far as the "grand strategy" stuff, and if Apple is threatening
>>
>> Digi
>>
>>>>> or
>>>>>
>>>>>>> whatever. Think for a minute about how much money Apple makes from
>>>>
>>>> people
>>>>
>>>>>>> who make music on Macs. Then think about how much money they make
>>
>> from
>>
>>>>> people
>>>>>
>>>>>>> who buy iPods and download from iTunes. Then think about the fact
>>
>> that
>>
>>>>> Jobs
>>>>>
>>>>>>> is on the board at Disney and the new iPods do video. Do you think
>>
>> Apple
>>
>>>>>>> *as a company* is fundamentally concerned with pro audio users?
>>>>>>> Would
>>>>
>>>> they
>>>>
>>>>>>> like to make money there? Sure. But would they trade 10% more of the
>>>
>>> pro
>>>
>>>>>>> audio market for 10% of the MP3 player market? I wouldn't think so.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thus, to me this is a very nice, and probably very expensive, native
>>>>
>>>> system.
>>>>
>>>>>>> Not fundamentally different than a very nice RME system on either
>>>>
>>>> platform.
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> TCB
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think it's that cut and dry. I don't think it's this part of
>>>>
>>>> Apple's
>>>>
>>>>>> business vs. another part of their business. I think Apple is
>>>>>> serious
>>>>
>>>> about
>>>>
>>>>>> pro Audio. The apogee thing is an example of it, and I think there
>>
>> will
>>
>>>>>> be more to come. I don't think Apple will fire Digi, I think it
>>>>>> would
>>>>
>>>> take
>>>>
>>>>>> Digi firing Apple to really get stuff started.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just my .02
>>>>>>
>>>>>> James
>>>>>
>>>>> I certainly don't think Apple WANTS people to quit using them for
>>
>> audio,
>>
>>>>> and I don't expect Digi will move anywhere. However, LaMont was asking
>>>
>>> a
>>>
>>>>> question about "what does this mean for the DAW world" and that
>>>>
>>>> necessarily
>>>>
>>>>> involves other companies.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I find most interesting is not the Apple vs. PC vs. Digi vs.
>>
>> Native
>>
>>>>> or whatever else, but why everyone hates Digi so much. To be perfectly
>>>>
>>>> honest
>>>>
>>>>> I think a healthy amount of that is jealousy. No matter what most
>>>>> of us
>>>>
>>>> say,
>>>>
>>>>> given the choice between a massively tricked out PT rig with lots of
>>
>> I/O
>>
>>>>> and DSP f/x and the bestest bestest native system out there (or even
>>
>> the
>>
>>>>> best PARIS system out there), nearly all of us would have a sudden
>>
>> change
>>
>>>>> of faith and take the Digi hardware. Even I would and I'm much more of
>>>
>>> a
>>>
>>>>> synth/sample guy than a rock'n'roll guy. So that's reason #1. I think
>>>>
>>>> reason
>>>>
>>>>> #2 is there is a perception that Digi uses its place as a "niche
>>>>
>>>> monopolist"
>>>>
>>>>> to abuse their customers, price gouge, and generally behave badly. In
>>>
>>> its
>>>
>>>>> time PARIS was a fantastic competitor to PT because it was cheaper,
>>
>> looked
>>
>>>>> better, and sounded better. It didn't become a truly viable competitor
>>>
>>> to
>>>
>>>>> PT for a bunch of reasons that have been hashed out here ad infinitum,
>>>
>>> but
>>>
>>>>> include the cratering of Ensoniq, the later cratering of E-mu, the
>>>>> fact
>>>>
>>>> that
>>>>
>>>>> St. Croix was a 24 carat arrogant ass at times, increased usability of
>>>>
>>>> cheaper
>>>>
>>>>> native systems, and so on.
>>>>>
>>>>> But what I think people like LaMont are looking for is not Digi
>>>>> getting
>>>>
>>>> knocked
>>>>
>>>>> off the throne or Apple owning the DAW market, but for Digi to have at
>>>>
>>>> least
>>>>
>>>>> one competitor with deep pockets and quality products to at least make
>>>>
>>>> Digi
>>>>
>>>>> behave better. Here's the thing--I don't think that competitor is
>>>>> going
>>>
>>> to
>>>
>>>>> come along. It would be too hard a market to break (PARIS being an
>>
>> example
>>
>>>>> where a similar product superior in many ways never really made a
>>>>> dent)
>>>>
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>> most people with the money to own big PT rigs don't really want to
>>
>> change
>>
>>>>> all that much even if they do whine about Digi sometimes. So, I think
>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>>> long term threat to Digi is the simple erosion of their customter base
>>>
>>> by
>>>
>>>>> faster, cheaper, and better native systems. But for the sake of LaMont
>>>>
>>>> (and
>>>>
>>>>> others) I hope I'm wrong and someone is tinkering away right now on a
>>>>
>>>> really
>>>>
>>>>> super DSP system that will sell for $2k and really do something
>>
>> special.
>>
>>>>>
>>>>> TCB
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Okay, so what does this product mean?
>>>>>>>> 1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with the
>>>
>>> Big
>>>
>>>>>>> kohuna
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> AKA Digidesign??
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the
>>
>> Mac's
>>
>>>>>>> cpu(s)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> handle the recording and plugins?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay
>>>
>>> DAW
>>>
>>>>>> manfacturer
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part
>>
>> Native
>>
>>>>> solution/DSP
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been
>>
>> talking
>>
>>>>>> about???
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the
>>
>> real
>>
>>>>> forward
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You
>>
>> guys
>>
>>>>>> Rock!!!..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of
>>
>> sorts...:)
>>
>>>>>>>> Interesting developments..Wow...
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63886 is a reply to message #63884] |
Sat, 28 January 2006 11:11 |
Bill Lorentzen
Messages: 140
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Lamont,
Just use a mixer. That becomes your stable routing tool. I have a Tascam
DM24. It routes all my audio, has a decent TC reverb, 16 decent inputs, tons
of I/O, and i never concern myself about latency whatsoever. In fact my
computer is about 3 years ald and works fine with lots of tracks, because i
don't have to push it at all.
If I want to track VSTis, I use a second machine set really fast, for
monitoring the synth. Then on playback I monitor the same VSTi on the main
machine.
Bill
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:43dbb16d$1@linux...
>
> DJ,
> That's my point I this endless love affair with native DAW's. I plan to
> use
> the natives as a compositional tool,maybe even to track now & then, but
> I'm
> sold out on DSP based DAWs be-it Paris or PTHD..I'm not about to keep
> going
> thru the motions of the constant PC/Mac upgrade paths..Nope..I'm done..
>
> I started this thread to open he question about the lack of a PT HD
> competior,
> but it seems that most are satified with their native based DAW...I'm
> not.Some
> manufacture will give me and others the goods...And, yes, I'll hold mt
> breath
> :)
> Lamont
>
> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>>Yep. I totally agree. I built this dual core machine in hopes that it
>>would
>>have enough horsepower to run at 64k buffers under heavy plugin loads with
>>large track counts. Not a chance in hell. It's remarkably fast and
>>powerful
>>so it's capable of what I want at higher buffer settings so for mixing
>>with
>>PDC using UAD-1 cards in SX so in that respect, it's filling my
>>needs.......but it's a wuss compared to Paris in the DAW torture scenario
> of
>>a dub session where it's necessary to work quickly and there are already
>>lots of tracks playing back and lots being added/punched. Paris still
>>rules
>>in this respect.
>>
>>Deej
>>
>>
>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:43daedeb$1@linux...
>>>
>>> "Mike R." <emarenot@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> >Amen.
>>> >Well said.
>>> >I agree. The threat to digi is in the world of faster, cheaper native
>>> >machines. I really thought that the current generation of machines
>>> >would
>>> be
>>> >"the one." But my vote is one, or possibly two more generations. What
>>> >continues to amaze me is how freakin' relavent Paris still is.
>>> >Latency?
>>> >What's latency?
>>> >MR
>>>
>>> 9 years later!!!
>>>
>>>
>>> >"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:43da2c42$1@linux...
>>> >>
>>> >> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>I've been meaning to write about this for a few days but have spent
>>> >literally
>>> >> >>every minute of the past few days either at work, playing shows,
> or
>>> >blind
>>> >> >>drunk. So . . .
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>To me this really product is not much news, and if it were any
>>> >> >>other
>>> two
>>> >> >>companies it wouldn't even be news at all. As I said before, DSP
>>systems
>>> >> >>are there for people who are willing to pay the big bucks to track
>>with
>>> >> >almost
>>> >> >>no latency. Native systems are for everyone else. This is just a
>>PCI-E
>>> >> native
>>> >> >>system. That matters to Apple because the reports are that their
> next
>>> >series
>>> >> >>of desktops won't have anything but PCI-E slots.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >I think it's news in the audio world any time Apogee comes out with
> a
>>> new
>>> >> >product. Apogee is significant, their converters are a professional
>>> >industry
>>> >> >standard. Converters are subjective.
>>> >>
>>> >> Absolutely, that's what I was saying. If PreSonus and Hewlett-Packard
>>> had
>>> >> announced a deal nobody would be all that thrilled. Becuase it's
>>> >> Apple
>>> and
>>> >> Apogee somehow it's a bigger news story. Which is fine, bully for
>>> >> them,
>>> I
>>> >> was just pointing out that this "story" has longer legs because of
> the
>>> two
>>> >> companies involved.
>>> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>As far as the "grand strategy" stuff, and if Apple is threatening
>>Digi
>>> >> or
>>> >> >>whatever. Think for a minute about how much money Apple makes from
>>> >people
>>> >> >>who make music on Macs. Then think about how much money they make
>>from
>>> >> people
>>> >> >>who buy iPods and download from iTunes. Then think about the fact
>>that
>>> >> Jobs
>>> >> >>is on the board at Disney and the new iPods do video. Do you think
>>Apple
>>> >> >>*as a company* is fundamentally concerned with pro audio users?
>>> >> >>Would
>>> >they
>>> >> >>like to make money there? Sure. But would they trade 10% more of
> the
>>> pro
>>> >> >>audio market for 10% of the MP3 player market? I wouldn't think so.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>Thus, to me this is a very nice, and probably very expensive,
>>> >> >>native
>>> >system.
>>> >> >>Not fundamentally different than a very nice RME system on either
>>> >platform.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>TCB
>>> >> >
>>> >> >I don't think it's that cut and dry. I don't think it's this part
> of
>>> >Apple's
>>> >> >business vs. another part of their business. I think Apple is
>>> >> >serious
>>> >about
>>> >> >pro Audio. The apogee thing is an example of it, and I think there
>>will
>>> >> >be more to come. I don't think Apple will fire Digi, I think it
>>> >> >would
>>> >take
>>> >> >Digi firing Apple to really get stuff started.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Just my .02
>>> >> >
>>> >> >James
>>> >>
>>> >> I certainly don't think Apple WANTS people to quit using them for
>>audio,
>>> >> and I don't expect Digi will move anywhere. However, LaMont was
>>> >> asking
>>> a
>>> >> question about "what does this mean for the DAW world" and that
>>> >necessarily
>>> >> involves other companies.
>>> >>
>>> >> What I find most interesting is not the Apple vs. PC vs. Digi vs.
>>Native
>>> >> or whatever else, but why everyone hates Digi so much. To be
>>> >> perfectly
>>> >honest
>>> >> I think a healthy amount of that is jealousy. No matter what most of
> us
>>> >say,
>>> >> given the choice between a massively tricked out PT rig with lots of
>>I/O
>>> >> and DSP f/x and the bestest bestest native system out there (or even
>>the
>>> >> best PARIS system out there), nearly all of us would have a sudden
>>change
>>> >> of faith and take the Digi hardware. Even I would and I'm much more
> of
>>> a
>>> >> synth/sample guy than a rock'n'roll guy. So that's reason #1. I think
>>> >reason
>>> >> #2 is there is a perception that Digi uses its place as a "niche
>>> >monopolist"
>>> >> to abuse their customers, price gouge, and generally behave badly.
> In
>>> its
>>> >> time PARIS was a fantastic competitor to PT because it was cheaper,
>>looked
>>> >> better, and sounded better. It didn't become a truly viable
>>> >> competitor
>>> to
>>> >> PT for a bunch of reasons that have been hashed out here ad
>>> >> infinitum,
>>> but
>>> >> include the cratering of Ensoniq, the later cratering of E-mu, the
> fact
>>> >that
>>> >> St. Croix was a 24 carat arrogant ass at times, increased usability
> of
>>> >cheaper
>>> >> native systems, and so on.
>>> >>
>>> >> But what I think people like LaMont are looking for is not Digi
>>> >> getting
>>> >knocked
>>> >> off the throne or Apple owning the DAW market, but for Digi to have
> at
>>> >least
>>> >> one competitor with deep pockets and quality products to at least
>>> >> make
>>> >Digi
>>> >> behave better. Here's the thing--I don't think that competitor is
>>> >> going
>>> to
>>> >> come along. It would be too hard a market to break (PARIS being an
>>example
>>> >> where a similar product superior in many ways never really made a
>>> >> dent)
>>> >and
>>> >> most people with the money to own big PT rigs don't really want to
>>change
>>> >> all that much even if they do whine about Digi sometimes. So, I think
>>> the
>>> >> long term threat to Digi is the simple erosion of their customter
>>> >> base
>>> by
>>> >> faster, cheaper, and better native systems. But for the sake of
>>> >> LaMont
>>> >(and
>>> >> others) I hope I'm wrong and someone is tinkering away right now on
> a
>>> >really
>>> >> super DSP system that will sell for $2k and really do something
>>special.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> TCB
>>> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>Okay, so what does this product mean?
>>> >> >>>1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with
> the
>>> Big
>>> >> >>kohuna
>>> >> >>>AKA Digidesign??
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting the
>>Mac's
>>> >> >>cpu(s)
>>> >> >>>handle the recording and plugins?
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of nay
>>> DAW
>>> >> >manfacturer
>>> >> >>>"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part
>>Native
>>> >> solution/DSP
>>> >> >>>that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been
>>talking
>>> >> >about???
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the
>>real
>>> >> forward
>>> >> >>>thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You
>>guys
>>> >> >Rock!!!..
>>> >> >>>Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of
>>sorts...:)
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>Interesting developments..Wow...
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63889 is a reply to message #63886] |
Sat, 28 January 2006 13:31 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hey Bill! Did you get the factory mic pre upgrade for the DM-24? FYI, I
hear it's about $450.00, and it's supposed to be a great improvement over
the original Mic pres.
James
"Bill Lorentzen" <bill@lorentzen.ws> wrote:
>Lamont,
>
>Just use a mixer. That becomes your stable routing tool. I have a Tascam
>DM24. It routes all my audio, has a decent TC reverb, 16 decent inputs,
tons
>of I/O, and i never concern myself about latency whatsoever. In fact my
>computer is about 3 years ald and works fine with lots of tracks, because
i
>don't have to push it at all.
>
>If I want to track VSTis, I use a second machine set really fast, for
>monitoring the synth. Then on playback I monitor the same VSTi on the main
>machine.
>
>Bill
>
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:43dbb16d$1@linux...
>>
>> DJ,
>> That's my point I this endless love affair with native DAW's. I plan to
>> use
>> the natives as a compositional tool,maybe even to track now & then, but
>> I'm
>> sold out on DSP based DAWs be-it Paris or PTHD..I'm not about to keep
>> going
>> thru the motions of the constant PC/Mac upgrade paths..Nope..I'm done..
>>
>> I started this thread to open he question about the lack of a PT HD
>> competior,
>> but it seems that most are satified with their native based DAW...I'm
>> not.Some
>> manufacture will give me and others the goods...And, yes, I'll hold mt
>> breath
>> :)
>> Lamont
>>
>> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>>>Yep. I totally agree. I built this dual core machine in hopes that it
>>>would
>>>have enough horsepower to run at 64k buffers under heavy plugin loads
with
>>>large track counts. Not a chance in hell. It's remarkably fast and
>>>powerful
>>>so it's capable of what I want at higher buffer settings so for mixing
>>>with
>>>PDC using UAD-1 cards in SX so in that respect, it's filling my
>>>needs.......but it's a wuss compared to Paris in the DAW torture scenario
>> of
>>>a dub session where it's necessary to work quickly and there are already
>>>lots of tracks playing back and lots being added/punched. Paris still
>>>rules
>>>in this respect.
>>>
>>>Deej
>>>
>>>
>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:43daedeb$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> "Mike R." <emarenot@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >Amen.
>>>> >Well said.
>>>> >I agree. The threat to digi is in the world of faster, cheaper native
>>>> >machines. I really thought that the current generation of machines
>>>> >would
>>>> be
>>>> >"the one." But my vote is one, or possibly two more generations.
What
>>>> >continues to amaze me is how freakin' relavent Paris still is.
>>>> >Latency?
>>>> >What's latency?
>>>> >MR
>>>>
>>>> 9 years later!!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:43da2c42$1@linux...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>I've been meaning to write about this for a few days but have spent
>>>> >literally
>>>> >> >>every minute of the past few days either at work, playing shows,
>> or
>>>> >blind
>>>> >> >>drunk. So . . .
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>To me this really product is not much news, and if it were any
>>>> >> >>other
>>>> two
>>>> >> >>companies it wouldn't even be news at all. As I said before, DSP
>>>systems
>>>> >> >>are there for people who are willing to pay the big bucks to track
>>>with
>>>> >> >almost
>>>> >> >>no latency. Native systems are for everyone else. This is just
a
>>>PCI-E
>>>> >> native
>>>> >> >>system. That matters to Apple because the reports are that their
>> next
>>>> >series
>>>> >> >>of desktops won't have anything but PCI-E slots.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >I think it's news in the audio world any time Apogee comes out with
>> a
>>>> new
>>>> >> >product. Apogee is significant, their converters are a professional
>>>> >industry
>>>> >> >standard. Converters are subjective.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Absolutely, that's what I was saying. If PreSonus and Hewlett-Packard
>>>> had
>>>> >> announced a deal nobody would be all that thrilled. Becuase it's
>>>> >> Apple
>>>> and
>>>> >> Apogee somehow it's a bigger news story. Which is fine, bully for
>>>> >> them,
>>>> I
>>>> >> was just pointing out that this "story" has longer legs because of
>> the
>>>> two
>>>> >> companies involved.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>As far as the "grand strategy" stuff, and if Apple is threatening
>>>Digi
>>>> >> or
>>>> >> >>whatever. Think for a minute about how much money Apple makes from
>>>> >people
>>>> >> >>who make music on Macs. Then think about how much money they make
>>>from
>>>> >> people
>>>> >> >>who buy iPods and download from iTunes. Then think about the fact
>>>that
>>>> >> Jobs
>>>> >> >>is on the board at Disney and the new iPods do video. Do you think
>>>Apple
>>>> >> >>*as a company* is fundamentally concerned with pro audio users?
>>>> >> >>Would
>>>> >they
>>>> >> >>like to make money there? Sure. But would they trade 10% more of
>> the
>>>> pro
>>>> >> >>audio market for 10% of the MP3 player market? I wouldn't think
so.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>Thus, to me this is a very nice, and probably very expensive,
>>>> >> >>native
>>>> >system.
>>>> >> >>Not fundamentally different than a very nice RME system on either
>>>> >platform.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>TCB
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >I don't think it's that cut and dry. I don't think it's this part
>> of
>>>> >Apple's
>>>> >> >business vs. another part of their business. I think Apple is
>>>> >> >serious
>>>> >about
>>>> >> >pro Audio. The apogee thing is an example of it, and I think there
>>>will
>>>> >> >be more to come. I don't think Apple will fire Digi, I think it
>>>> >> >would
>>>> >take
>>>> >> >Digi firing Apple to really get stuff started.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >Just my .02
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >James
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I certainly don't think Apple WANTS people to quit using them for
>>>audio,
>>>> >> and I don't expect Digi will move anywhere. However, LaMont was
>>>> >> asking
>>>> a
>>>> >> question about "what does this mean for the DAW world" and that
>>>> >necessarily
>>>> >> involves other companies.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> What I find most interesting is not the Apple vs. PC vs. Digi vs.
>>>Native
>>>> >> or whatever else, but why everyone hates Digi so much. To be
>>>> >> perfectly
>>>> >honest
>>>> >> I think a healthy amount of that is jealousy. No matter what most
of
>> us
>>>> >say,
>>>> >> given the choice between a massively tricked out PT rig with lots
of
>>>I/O
>>>> >> and DSP f/x and the bestest bestest native system out there (or even
>>>the
>>>> >> best PARIS system out there), nearly all of us would have a sudden
>>>change
>>>> >> of faith and take the Digi hardware. Even I would and I'm much more
>> of
>>>> a
>>>> >> synth/sample guy than a rock'n'roll guy. So that's reason #1. I think
>>>> >reason
>>>> >> #2 is there is a perception that Digi uses its place as a "niche
>>>> >monopolist"
>>>> >> to abuse their customers, price gouge, and generally behave badly.
>> In
>>>> its
>>>> >> time PARIS was a fantastic competitor to PT because it was cheaper,
>>>looked
>>>> >> better, and sounded better. It didn't become a truly viable
>>>> >> competitor
>>>> to
>>>> >> PT for a bunch of reasons that have been hashed out here ad
>>>> >> infinitum,
>>>> but
>>>> >> include the cratering of Ensoniq, the later cratering of E-mu, the
>> fact
>>>> >that
>>>> >> St. Croix was a 24 carat arrogant ass at times, increased usability
>> of
>>>> >cheaper
>>>> >> native systems, and so on.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> But what I think people like LaMont are looking for is not Digi
>>>> >> getting
>>>> >knocked
>>>> >> off the throne or Apple owning the DAW market, but for Digi to have
>> at
>>>> >least
>>>> >> one competitor with deep pockets and quality products to at least
>>>> >> make
>>>> >Digi
>>>> >> behave better. Here's the thing--I don't think that competitor is
>>>> >> going
>>>> to
>>>> >> come along. It would be too hard a market to break (PARIS being an
>>>example
>>>> >> where a similar product superior in many ways never really made a
>>>> >> dent)
>>>> >and
>>>> >> most people with the money to own big PT rigs don't really want to
>>>change
>>>> >> all that much even if they do whine about Digi sometimes. So, I think
>>>> the
>>>> >> long term threat to Digi is the simple erosion of their customter
>>>> >> base
>>>> by
>>>> >> faster, cheaper, and better native systems. But for the sake of
>>>> >> LaMont
>>>> >(and
>>>> >> others) I hope I'm wrong and someone is tinkering away right now
on
>> a
>>>> >really
>>>> >> super DSP system that will sell for $2k and really do something
>>>special.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> TCB
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>Okay, so what does this product mean?
>>>> >> >>>1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with
>> the
>>>> Big
>>>> >> >>kohuna
>>>> >> >>>AKA Digidesign??
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting
the
>>>Mac's
>>>> >> >>cpu(s)
>>>> >> >>>handle the recording and plugins?
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of
nay
>>>> DAW
>>>> >> >manfacturer
>>>> >> >>>"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part
>>>Native
>>>> >> solution/DSP
>>>> >> >>>that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been
>>>talking
>>>> >> >about???
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the
>>>real
>>>> >> forward
>>>> >> >>>thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You
>>>guys
>>>> >> >Rock!!!..
>>>> >> >>>Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of
>>>sorts...:)
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>Interesting developments..Wow...
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63891 is a reply to message #63889] |
Sat, 28 January 2006 13:32 |
Bill Lorentzen
Messages: 140
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
No I did not. I thought it was just because there was a problem with the
sensitivity of the pot when you turn them up from the bottom. I did not know
it was a better pre altogether. Sounds interesting.
Bill
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:43dbd48b$1@linux...
>
> Hey Bill! Did you get the factory mic pre upgrade for the DM-24? FYI, I
> hear it's about $450.00, and it's supposed to be a great improvement over
> the original Mic pres.
>
> James
>
> "Bill Lorentzen" <bill@lorentzen.ws> wrote:
>>Lamont,
>>
>>Just use a mixer. That becomes your stable routing tool. I have a Tascam
>
>>DM24. It routes all my audio, has a decent TC reverb, 16 decent inputs,
> tons
>>of I/O, and i never concern myself about latency whatsoever. In fact my
>
>>computer is about 3 years ald and works fine with lots of tracks, because
> i
>>don't have to push it at all.
>>
>>If I want to track VSTis, I use a second machine set really fast, for
>>monitoring the synth. Then on playback I monitor the same VSTi on the main
>
>>machine.
>>
>>Bill
>>
>>
>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:43dbb16d$1@linux...
>>>
>>> DJ,
>>> That's my point I this endless love affair with native DAW's. I plan to
>
>>> use
>>> the natives as a compositional tool,maybe even to track now & then, but
>
>>> I'm
>>> sold out on DSP based DAWs be-it Paris or PTHD..I'm not about to keep
>
>>> going
>>> thru the motions of the constant PC/Mac upgrade paths..Nope..I'm done..
>>>
>>> I started this thread to open he question about the lack of a PT HD
>>> competior,
>>> but it seems that most are satified with their native based DAW...I'm
>
>>> not.Some
>>> manufacture will give me and others the goods...And, yes, I'll hold mt
>
>>> breath
>>> :)
>>> Lamont
>>>
>>> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>>>>Yep. I totally agree. I built this dual core machine in hopes that it
>
>>>>would
>>>>have enough horsepower to run at 64k buffers under heavy plugin loads
> with
>>>>large track counts. Not a chance in hell. It's remarkably fast and
>>>>powerful
>>>>so it's capable of what I want at higher buffer settings so for mixing
>
>>>>with
>>>>PDC using UAD-1 cards in SX so in that respect, it's filling my
>>>>needs.......but it's a wuss compared to Paris in the DAW torture
>>>>scenario
>>> of
>>>>a dub session where it's necessary to work quickly and there are already
>>>>lots of tracks playing back and lots being added/punched. Paris still
>
>>>>rules
>>>>in this respect.
>>>>
>>>>Deej
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:43daedeb$1@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Mike R." <emarenot@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> >Amen.
>>>>> >Well said.
>>>>> >I agree. The threat to digi is in the world of faster, cheaper
>>>>> >native
>>>>> >machines. I really thought that the current generation of machines
>
>>>>> >would
>>>>> be
>>>>> >"the one." But my vote is one, or possibly two more generations.
> What
>>>>> >continues to amaze me is how freakin' relavent Paris still is.
>>>>> >Latency?
>>>>> >What's latency?
>>>>> >MR
>>>>>
>>>>> 9 years later!!!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:43da2c42$1@linux...
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >>I've been meaning to write about this for a few days but have
>>>>> >> >>spent
>>>>> >literally
>>>>> >> >>every minute of the past few days either at work, playing shows,
>>> or
>>>>> >blind
>>>>> >> >>drunk. So . . .
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >>To me this really product is not much news, and if it were any
>
>>>>> >> >>other
>>>>> two
>>>>> >> >>companies it wouldn't even be news at all. As I said before, DSP
>>>>systems
>>>>> >> >>are there for people who are willing to pay the big bucks to
>>>>> >> >>track
>>>>with
>>>>> >> >almost
>>>>> >> >>no latency. Native systems are for everyone else. This is just
> a
>>>>PCI-E
>>>>> >> native
>>>>> >> >>system. That matters to Apple because the reports are that their
>>> next
>>>>> >series
>>>>> >> >>of desktops won't have anything but PCI-E slots.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >I think it's news in the audio world any time Apogee comes out
>>>>> >> >with
>>> a
>>>>> new
>>>>> >> >product. Apogee is significant, their converters are a
>>>>> >> >professional
>>>>> >industry
>>>>> >> >standard. Converters are subjective.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Absolutely, that's what I was saying. If PreSonus and
>>>>> >> Hewlett-Packard
>>>>> had
>>>>> >> announced a deal nobody would be all that thrilled. Becuase it's
>
>>>>> >> Apple
>>>>> and
>>>>> >> Apogee somehow it's a bigger news story. Which is fine, bully for
>
>>>>> >> them,
>>>>> I
>>>>> >> was just pointing out that this "story" has longer legs because of
>>> the
>>>>> two
>>>>> >> companies involved.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >>As far as the "grand strategy" stuff, and if Apple is threatening
>>>>Digi
>>>>> >> or
>>>>> >> >>whatever. Think for a minute about how much money Apple makes
>>>>> >> >>from
>>>>> >people
>>>>> >> >>who make music on Macs. Then think about how much money they make
>>>>from
>>>>> >> people
>>>>> >> >>who buy iPods and download from iTunes. Then think about the fact
>>>>that
>>>>> >> Jobs
>>>>> >> >>is on the board at Disney and the new iPods do video. Do you
>>>>> >> >>think
>>>>Apple
>>>>> >> >>*as a company* is fundamentally concerned with pro audio users?
>
>>>>> >> >>Would
>>>>> >they
>>>>> >> >>like to make money there? Sure. But would they trade 10% more of
>>> the
>>>>> pro
>>>>> >> >>audio market for 10% of the MP3 player market? I wouldn't think
> so.
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >>Thus, to me this is a very nice, and probably very expensive,
>>>>> >> >>native
>>>>> >system.
>>>>> >> >>Not fundamentally different than a very nice RME system on either
>>>>> >platform.
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >>TCB
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >I don't think it's that cut and dry. I don't think it's this part
>>> of
>>>>> >Apple's
>>>>> >> >business vs. another part of their business. I think Apple is
>>>>> >> >serious
>>>>> >about
>>>>> >> >pro Audio. The apogee thing is an example of it, and I think
>>>>> >> >there
>>>>will
>>>>> >> >be more to come. I don't think Apple will fire Digi, I think it
>
>>>>> >> >would
>>>>> >take
>>>>> >> >Digi firing Apple to really get stuff started.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >Just my .02
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >James
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I certainly don't think Apple WANTS people to quit using them for
>>>>audio,
>>>>> >> and I don't expect Digi will move anywhere. However, LaMont was
>>>>> >> asking
>>>>> a
>>>>> >> question about "what does this mean for the DAW world" and that
>>>>> >necessarily
>>>>> >> involves other companies.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> What I find most interesting is not the Apple vs. PC vs. Digi vs.
>>>>Native
>>>>> >> or whatever else, but why everyone hates Digi so much. To be
>>>>> >> perfectly
>>>>> >honest
>>>>> >> I think a healthy amount of that is jealousy. No matter what most
> of
>>> us
>>>>> >say,
>>>>> >> given the choice between a massively tricked out PT rig with lots
> of
>>>>I/O
>>>>> >> and DSP f/x and the bestest bestest native system out there (or
>>>>> >> even
>>>>the
>>>>> >> best PARIS system out there), nearly all of us would have a sudden
>>>>change
>>>>> >> of faith and take the Digi hardware. Even I would and I'm much more
>>> of
>>>>> a
>>>>> >> synth/sample guy than a rock'n'roll guy. So that's reason #1. I
>>>>> >> think
>>>>> >reason
>>>>> >> #2 is there is a perception that Digi uses its place as a "niche
>>>>> >monopolist"
>>>>> >> to abuse their customers, price gouge, and generally behave badly.
>>> In
>>>>> its
>>>>> >> time PARIS was a fantastic competitor to PT because it was cheaper,
>>>>looked
>>>>> >> better, and sounded better. It didn't become a truly viable
>>>>> >> competitor
>>>>> to
>>>>> >> PT for a bunch of reasons that have been hashed out here ad
>>>>> >> infinitum,
>>>>> but
>>>>> >> include the cratering of Ensoniq, the later cratering of E-mu, the
>>> fact
>>>>> >that
>>>>> >> St. Croix was a 24 carat arrogant ass at times, increased usability
>>> of
>>>>> >cheaper
>>>>> >> native systems, and so on.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> But what I think people like LaMont are looking for is not Digi
>>>>> >> getting
>>>>> >knocked
>>>>> >> off the throne or Apple owning the DAW market, but for Digi to have
>>> at
>>>>> >least
>>>>> >> one competitor with deep pockets and quality products to at least
>
>>>>> >> make
>>>>> >Digi
>>>>> >> behave better. Here's the thing--I don't think that competitor is
>
>>>>> >> going
>>>>> to
>>>>> >> come along. It would be too hard a market to break (PARIS being an
>>>>example
>>>>> >> where a similar product superior in many ways never really made a
>
>>>>> >> dent)
>>>>> >and
>>>>> >> most people with the money to own big PT rigs don't really want to
>>>>change
>>>>> >> all that much even if they do whine about Digi sometimes. So, I
>>>>> >> think
>>>>> the
>>>>> >> long term threat to Digi is the simple erosion of their customter
>
>>>>> >> base
>>>>> by
>>>>> >> faster, cheaper, and better native systems. But for the sake of
>>>>> >> LaMont
>>>>> >(and
>>>>> >> others) I hope I'm wrong and someone is tinkering away right now
> on
>>> a
>>>>> >really
>>>>> >> super DSP system that will sell for $2k and really do something
>>>>special.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> TCB
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >>>http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >>>Okay, so what does this product mean?
>>>>> >> >>>1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >>>2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with
>>> the
>>>>> Big
>>>>> >> >>kohuna
>>>>> >> >>>AKA Digidesign??
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >>>3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting
> the
>>>>Mac's
>>>>> >> >>cpu(s)
>>>>> >> >>>handle the recording and plugins?
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >>>4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of
> nay
>>>>> DAW
>>>>> >> >manfacturer
>>>>> >> >>>"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part
>>>>Native
>>>>> >> solution/DSP
>>>>> >> >>>that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been
>>>>talking
>>>>> >> >about???
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >>>If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the
>>>>real
>>>>> >> forward
>>>>> >> >>>thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little
>>>>> >> >>>forum..You
>>>>guys
>>>>> >> >Rock!!!..
>>>>> >> >>>Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of
>>>>sorts...:)
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >>>Interesting developments..Wow...
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:Okay So, What does this mean for the DAW World [message #63901 is a reply to message #63886] |
Sat, 28 January 2006 18:09 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hey Bill,
You must be a mind reader :) As it turns out, I've investigating getting
1 or 2 Tascams DM3200 (Cascaded). i came to this decision with realizing
that my dream of another cool DSP based DAW was not on the horizon.
I've worked with the yammy DM2000 controlling, Logic, Nuendo, DP and PT,
so, I know the power of a good Digital Mixer. This just may the way for me.
The new MAckie DXB looks like a good contender beit utilizes VST plugs, as
well as, UAD card support, but the i/o add on make this board $$$.
Oh, how I wish for a product that integrates both the Mixer & the Recorder(Not
the Rolands Vs Line) :)..
Take care.
"Bill Lorentzen" <bill@lorentzen.ws> wrote:
>Lamont,
>
>Just use a mixer. That becomes your stable routing tool. I have a Tascam
>DM24. It routes all my audio, has a decent TC reverb, 16 decent inputs,
tons
>of I/O, and i never concern myself about latency whatsoever. In fact my
>computer is about 3 years ald and works fine with lots of tracks, because
i
>don't have to push it at all.
>
>If I want to track VSTis, I use a second machine set really fast, for
>monitoring the synth. Then on playback I monitor the same VSTi on the main
>machine.
>
>Bill
>
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:43dbb16d$1@linux...
>>
>> DJ,
>> That's my point I this endless love affair with native DAW's. I plan to
>> use
>> the natives as a compositional tool,maybe even to track now & then, but
>> I'm
>> sold out on DSP based DAWs be-it Paris or PTHD..I'm not about to keep
>> going
>> thru the motions of the constant PC/Mac upgrade paths..Nope..I'm done..
>>
>> I started this thread to open he question about the lack of a PT HD
>> competior,
>> but it seems that most are satified with their native based DAW...I'm
>> not.Some
>> manufacture will give me and others the goods...And, yes, I'll hold mt
>> breath
>> :)
>> Lamont
>>
>> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>>>Yep. I totally agree. I built this dual core machine in hopes that it
>>>would
>>>have enough horsepower to run at 64k buffers under heavy plugin loads
with
>>>large track counts. Not a chance in hell. It's remarkably fast and
>>>powerful
>>>so it's capable of what I want at higher buffer settings so for mixing
>>>with
>>>PDC using UAD-1 cards in SX so in that respect, it's filling my
>>>needs.......but it's a wuss compared to Paris in the DAW torture scenario
>> of
>>>a dub session where it's necessary to work quickly and there are already
>>>lots of tracks playing back and lots being added/punched. Paris still
>>>rules
>>>in this respect.
>>>
>>>Deej
>>>
>>>
>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:43daedeb$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> "Mike R." <emarenot@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >Amen.
>>>> >Well said.
>>>> >I agree. The threat to digi is in the world of faster, cheaper native
>>>> >machines. I really thought that the current generation of machines
>>>> >would
>>>> be
>>>> >"the one." But my vote is one, or possibly two more generations.
What
>>>> >continues to amaze me is how freakin' relavent Paris still is.
>>>> >Latency?
>>>> >What's latency?
>>>> >MR
>>>>
>>>> 9 years later!!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:43da2c42$1@linux...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>I've been meaning to write about this for a few days but have spent
>>>> >literally
>>>> >> >>every minute of the past few days either at work, playing shows,
>> or
>>>> >blind
>>>> >> >>drunk. So . . .
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>To me this really product is not much news, and if it were any
>>>> >> >>other
>>>> two
>>>> >> >>companies it wouldn't even be news at all. As I said before, DSP
>>>systems
>>>> >> >>are there for people who are willing to pay the big bucks to track
>>>with
>>>> >> >almost
>>>> >> >>no latency. Native systems are for everyone else. This is just
a
>>>PCI-E
>>>> >> native
>>>> >> >>system. That matters to Apple because the reports are that their
>> next
>>>> >series
>>>> >> >>of desktops won't have anything but PCI-E slots.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >I think it's news in the audio world any time Apogee comes out with
>> a
>>>> new
>>>> >> >product. Apogee is significant, their converters are a professional
>>>> >industry
>>>> >> >standard. Converters are subjective.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Absolutely, that's what I was saying. If PreSonus and Hewlett-Packard
>>>> had
>>>> >> announced a deal nobody would be all that thrilled. Becuase it's
>>>> >> Apple
>>>> and
>>>> >> Apogee somehow it's a bigger news story. Which is fine, bully for
>>>> >> them,
>>>> I
>>>> >> was just pointing out that this "story" has longer legs because of
>> the
>>>> two
>>>> >> companies involved.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>As far as the "grand strategy" stuff, and if Apple is threatening
>>>Digi
>>>> >> or
>>>> >> >>whatever. Think for a minute about how much money Apple makes from
>>>> >people
>>>> >> >>who make music on Macs. Then think about how much money they make
>>>from
>>>> >> people
>>>> >> >>who buy iPods and download from iTunes. Then think about the fact
>>>that
>>>> >> Jobs
>>>> >> >>is on the board at Disney and the new iPods do video. Do you think
>>>Apple
>>>> >> >>*as a company* is fundamentally concerned with pro audio users?
>>>> >> >>Would
>>>> >they
>>>> >> >>like to make money there? Sure. But would they trade 10% more of
>> the
>>>> pro
>>>> >> >>audio market for 10% of the MP3 player market? I wouldn't think
so.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>Thus, to me this is a very nice, and probably very expensive,
>>>> >> >>native
>>>> >system.
>>>> >> >>Not fundamentally different than a very nice RME system on either
>>>> >platform.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>TCB
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >I don't think it's that cut and dry. I don't think it's this part
>> of
>>>> >Apple's
>>>> >> >business vs. another part of their business. I think Apple is
>>>> >> >serious
>>>> >about
>>>> >> >pro Audio. The apogee thing is an example of it, and I think there
>>>will
>>>> >> >be more to come. I don't think Apple will fire Digi, I think it
>>>> >> >would
>>>> >take
>>>> >> >Digi firing Apple to really get stuff started.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >Just my .02
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >James
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I certainly don't think Apple WANTS people to quit using them for
>>>audio,
>>>> >> and I don't expect Digi will move anywhere. However, LaMont was
>>>> >> asking
>>>> a
>>>> >> question about "what does this mean for the DAW world" and that
>>>> >necessarily
>>>> >> involves other companies.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> What I find most interesting is not the Apple vs. PC vs. Digi vs.
>>>Native
>>>> >> or whatever else, but why everyone hates Digi so much. To be
>>>> >> perfectly
>>>> >honest
>>>> >> I think a healthy amount of that is jealousy. No matter what most
of
>> us
>>>> >say,
>>>> >> given the choice between a massively tricked out PT rig with lots
of
>>>I/O
>>>> >> and DSP f/x and the bestest bestest native system out there (or even
>>>the
>>>> >> best PARIS system out there), nearly all of us would have a sudden
>>>change
>>>> >> of faith and take the Digi hardware. Even I would and I'm much more
>> of
>>>> a
>>>> >> synth/sample guy than a rock'n'roll guy. So that's reason #1. I think
>>>> >reason
>>>> >> #2 is there is a perception that Digi uses its place as a "niche
>>>> >monopolist"
>>>> >> to abuse their customers, price gouge, and generally behave badly.
>> In
>>>> its
>>>> >> time PARIS was a fantastic competitor to PT because it was cheaper,
>>>looked
>>>> >> better, and sounded better. It didn't become a truly viable
>>>> >> competitor
>>>> to
>>>> >> PT for a bunch of reasons that have been hashed out here ad
>>>> >> infinitum,
>>>> but
>>>> >> include the cratering of Ensoniq, the later cratering of E-mu, the
>> fact
>>>> >that
>>>> >> St. Croix was a 24 carat arrogant ass at times, increased usability
>> of
>>>> >cheaper
>>>> >> native systems, and so on.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> But what I think people like LaMont are looking for is not Digi
>>>> >> getting
>>>> >knocked
>>>> >> off the throne or Apple owning the DAW market, but for Digi to have
>> at
>>>> >least
>>>> >> one competitor with deep pockets and quality products to at least
>>>> >> make
>>>> >Digi
>>>> >> behave better. Here's the thing--I don't think that competitor is
>>>> >> going
>>>> to
>>>> >> come along. It would be too hard a market to break (PARIS being an
>>>example
>>>> >> where a similar product superior in many ways never really made a
>>>> >> dent)
>>>> >and
>>>> >> most people with the money to own big PT rigs don't really want to
>>>change
>>>> >> all that much even if they do whine about Digi sometimes. So, I think
>>>> the
>>>> >> long term threat to Digi is the simple erosion of their customter
>>>> >> base
>>>> by
>>>> >> faster, cheaper, and better native systems. But for the sake of
>>>> >> LaMont
>>>> >(and
>>>> >> others) I hope I'm wrong and someone is tinkering away right now
on
>> a
>>>> >really
>>>> >> super DSP system that will sell for $2k and really do something
>>>special.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> TCB
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2657
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>Okay, so what does this product mean?
>>>> >> >>>1)Is this a Direct shot over Digidesign's bow?
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>2) Does this mean Apple and Apogee are going to go head up with
>> the
>>>> Big
>>>> >> >>kohuna
>>>> >> >>>AKA Digidesign??
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>3)This Product: Is it just a dedicated DSP Mixer,thus letting
the
>>>Mac's
>>>> >> >>cpu(s)
>>>> >> >>>handle the recording and plugins?
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>4)* With all the "whining" I have been doing about the lack of
nay
>>>> DAW
>>>> >> >manfacturer
>>>> >> >>>"Willing to " to head to toe with Digi. Could this be the Part
>>>Native
>>>> >> solution/DSP
>>>> >> >>>that you guys (Thad, Dedric,Jaimie,James,Bill, Neil) have been
>>>talking
>>>> >> >about???
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>If so, then, I stand corrected..AND, Once again, proves that the
>>>real
>>>> >> forward
>>>> >> >>>thinkers in the DAW world are right here in our little forum..You
>>>guys
>>>> >> >Rock!!!..
>>>> >> >>>Thanks for letting me have my "State of The DAW" tantrum of
>>>sorts...:)
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>Interesting developments..Wow...
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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