Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Levels and summing
| Levels and summing [message #74521] |
Fri, 20 October 2006 13:13  |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
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Senior Member |
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OK, I've been too busy working on my job and my car (new 1966 Thunderbird
is the ride, and she's lovely) and haven't posted in a bit. But, during the
.35 seconds when Deej was going to simplify his rig and go native there was
discussion about the way levels are managed from channels/busses to the master
output in PARIS. Can someone explain this to me in much greater detail? Keep
in mind I know my digital stuff just fine but I know less about how to design
a console than I do how to make and anti-gravity machine.
Thanks,
TCB
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| Re: Levels and summing [message #74529 is a reply to message #74521] |
Fri, 20 October 2006 13:58  |
John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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Here goes. Take one part gravity and two parts anti-gravity and mix
till you get a jell.....no wait, that's for the anti-gravity machine.
Ok for the mixing..........
Here's the Paris Bible on mixing levels
When the lights on the MEC blink you're screwed. When you have the
mixer window open and you have meters set to pre-fader, if the light
clips, you're screwed.
If you have the meters set to post-fader and the clip light clips on the
meters, it's ok !!! Use your ears here.
If you clip on Native inserts you're screwed. If you clip on EDS inserts
they are a little forgiving but try not to.
When you are mixing down to the submix and master fader if the clip
lights come on, your ok, use your ears here.
Make sure to setup your patchbay to +4 on everything possible to get
maximum signal. Like my line 6 amp has an adjustable output, so I crank
it up till it just clips on the MEC leds and pre-fader clip lights at
MAX output when your at the loudest point in the song. Don't let some
singer do a vocal check and not belt it out. Force em to give you
levels. Check, Check, One, Two, "Hey, gimmie some freaking level" !!!!
Once you get a NON digitally clipped recording the rest is in your ears.
BAD
Mec clip
Prefader clip
Native effects clip
Not so Bad
EDS effects clip
Good (PUSH IT! Use your ears.)
Postfader clip on faders, submix and master
Use balanced signal paths wherever possible too.
I hope it helps.
John
TCB wrote:
> OK, I've been too busy working on my job and my car (new 1966 Thunderbird
> is the ride, and she's lovely) and haven't posted in a bit. But, during the
> .35 seconds when Deej was going to simplify his rig and go native there was
> discussion about the way levels are managed from channels/busses to the master
> output in PARIS. Can someone explain this to me in much greater detail? Keep
> in mind I know my digital stuff just fine but I know less about how to design
> a console than I do how to make and anti-gravity machine.
>
> Thanks,
>
> TCB
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| Re: Levels and summing [message #74531 is a reply to message #74530] |
Fri, 20 October 2006 14:26 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
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Senior Member |
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Ah, don't have any yet but I'll take some. She really is a lovely one. Standard
hardtop (no Landau or convertible), Green, in pretty darn good shape, but
of course there's a lot to be done . . .
TCB
"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>Pics of the bird man, pics of the bird!
>
>Don
>
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45392dd8$1@linux...
>>
>> OK, I've been too busy working on my job and my car (new 1966 Thunderbird
>> is the ride, and she's lovely) and haven't posted in a bit. But, during
>> the
>> 35 seconds when Deej was going to simplify his rig and go native there
was
>> discussion about the way levels are managed from channels/busses to the
>> master
>> output in PARIS. Can someone explain this to me in much greater detail?
>> Keep
>> in mind I know my digital stuff just fine but I know less about how to
>> design
>> a console than I do how to make and anti-gravity machine.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> TCB
>
>
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| Re: Levels and summing [message #74539 is a reply to message #74537] |
Fri, 20 October 2006 17:07 |
chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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Find my post that explains it. I wasn't using an oscilliscope, just the source
code for the mixer.
Behind the scenes, and without your knowledge, paris is dipping the individual
channels by 22 db. Then it applies 22 db makeup on the master. That's why
you can push the individual channels so hard and make things 'gel'. This
is what many analog consoles do.
Chuck
John <no@no.com> wrote:
>How do you know that is true? Are you putting an oscilloscope on the
>Submix masters ?
>
>DJ wrote:
>> Everything is attenuated by -22dB but it doesn't look like it and it still
>> sounds like it's at normal levels, which it isn't, except that since it
>> sounds like it so when you are seeing levels at the submix faders that
are
>> at 0 zero dB, they really aren't, they are -22dB lower at the global
>> fader.........except that they will have the same SPL as a normal DAW
would
>> at zero dB.......now explain that one.
>>
>> ;o)
>>
>>
>>
>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45392dd8$1@linux...
>>> OK, I've been too busy working on my job and my car (new 1966 Thunderbird
>>> is the ride, and she's lovely) and haven't posted in a bit. But, during
>> the
>>> 35 seconds when Deej was going to simplify his rig and go native there
was
>>> discussion about the way levels are managed from channels/busses to the
>> master
>>> output in PARIS. Can someone explain this to me in much greater detail?
>> Keep
>>> in mind I know my digital stuff just fine but I know less about how to
>> design
>>> a console than I do how to make and anti-gravity machine.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> TCB
>>
>>
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| Re: Levels and summing [message #74540 is a reply to message #74539] |
Fri, 20 October 2006 17:08 |
chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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PS
you cant use a scope, because the signals I am talking about are inside the
EDS.
Chuck
"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>
>Find my post that explains it. I wasn't using an oscilliscope, just the
source
>code for the mixer.
>
>Behind the scenes, and without your knowledge, paris is dipping the individual
>channels by 22 db. Then it applies 22 db makeup on the master. That's
why
>you can push the individual channels so hard and make things 'gel'. This
>is what many analog consoles do.
>
>Chuck
>
>John <no@no.com> wrote:
>>How do you know that is true? Are you putting an oscilloscope on the
>>Submix masters ?
>>
>>DJ wrote:
>>> Everything is attenuated by -22dB but it doesn't look like it and it
still
>>> sounds like it's at normal levels, which it isn't, except that since
it
>>> sounds like it so when you are seeing levels at the submix faders that
>are
>>> at 0 zero dB, they really aren't, they are -22dB lower at the global
>>> fader.........except that they will have the same SPL as a normal DAW
>would
>>> at zero dB.......now explain that one.
>>>
>>> ;o)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45392dd8$1@linux...
>>>> OK, I've been too busy working on my job and my car (new 1966 Thunderbird
>>>> is the ride, and she's lovely) and haven't posted in a bit. But, during
>>> the
>>>> 35 seconds when Deej was going to simplify his rig and go native there
>was
>>>> discussion about the way levels are managed from channels/busses to
the
>>> master
>>>> output in PARIS. Can someone explain this to me in much greater detail?
>>> Keep
>>>> in mind I know my digital stuff just fine but I know less about how
to
>>> design
>>>> a console than I do how to make and anti-gravity machine.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> TCB
>>>
>>>
>
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| Re: Levels and summing [message #74541 is a reply to message #74539] |
Fri, 20 October 2006 17:19 |
John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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This is all in the digital domain ? WOW
chuck duffy wrote:
> Find my post that explains it. I wasn't using an oscilliscope, just the source
> code for the mixer.
>
> Behind the scenes, and without your knowledge, paris is dipping the individual
> channels by 22 db. Then it applies 22 db makeup on the master. That's why
> you can push the individual channels so hard and make things 'gel'. This
> is what many analog consoles do.
>
> Chuck
>
> John <no@no.com> wrote:
>> How do you know that is true? Are you putting an oscilloscope on the
>> Submix masters ?
>>
>> DJ wrote:
>>> Everything is attenuated by -22dB but it doesn't look like it and it still
>>> sounds like it's at normal levels, which it isn't, except that since it
>>> sounds like it so when you are seeing levels at the submix faders that
> are
>>> at 0 zero dB, they really aren't, they are -22dB lower at the global
>>> fader.........except that they will have the same SPL as a normal DAW
> would
>>> at zero dB.......now explain that one.
>>>
>>> ;o)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45392dd8$1@linux...
>>>> OK, I've been too busy working on my job and my car (new 1966 Thunderbird
>>>> is the ride, and she's lovely) and haven't posted in a bit. But, during
>>> the
>>>> 35 seconds when Deej was going to simplify his rig and go native there
> was
>>>> discussion about the way levels are managed from channels/busses to the
>>> master
>>>> output in PARIS. Can someone explain this to me in much greater detail?
>>> Keep
>>>> in mind I know my digital stuff just fine but I know less about how to
>>> design
>>>> a console than I do how to make and anti-gravity machine.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> TCB
>>>
>
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| Re: Levels and summing [message #74543 is a reply to message #74541] |
Fri, 20 October 2006 17:11 |
chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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100% in the digital domain.
Chuck
John <no@no.com> wrote:
>This is all in the digital domain ? WOW
>
>chuck duffy wrote:
>> Find my post that explains it. I wasn't using an oscilliscope, just the
source
>> code for the mixer.
>>
>> Behind the scenes, and without your knowledge, paris is dipping the individual
>> channels by 22 db. Then it applies 22 db makeup on the master. That's
why
>> you can push the individual channels so hard and make things 'gel'. This
>> is what many analog consoles do.
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>> John <no@no.com> wrote:
>>> How do you know that is true? Are you putting an oscilloscope on the
>>> Submix masters ?
>>>
>>> DJ wrote:
>>>> Everything is attenuated by -22dB but it doesn't look like it and it
still
>>>> sounds like it's at normal levels, which it isn't, except that since
it
>>>> sounds like it so when you are seeing levels at the submix faders that
>> are
>>>> at 0 zero dB, they really aren't, they are -22dB lower at the global
>>>> fader.........except that they will have the same SPL as a normal DAW
>> would
>>>> at zero dB.......now explain that one.
>>>>
>>>> ;o)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45392dd8$1@linux...
>>>>> OK, I've been too busy working on my job and my car (new 1966 Thunderbird
>>>>> is the ride, and she's lovely) and haven't posted in a bit. But, during
>>>> the
>>>>> 35 seconds when Deej was going to simplify his rig and go native there
>> was
>>>>> discussion about the way levels are managed from channels/busses to
the
>>>> master
>>>>> output in PARIS. Can someone explain this to me in much greater detail?
>>>> Keep
>>>>> in mind I know my digital stuff just fine but I know less about how
to
>>>> design
>>>>> a console than I do how to make and anti-gravity machine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> TCB
>>>>
>>
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| Re: Levels and summing [message #74549 is a reply to message #74543] |
Fri, 20 October 2006 18:19 |
John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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So doing the math to sum em, do they run out of floating point top end
and have to drop -20 to get digital headroom?
chuck duffy wrote:
> 100% in the digital domain.
>
> Chuck
>
> John <no@no.com> wrote:
>> This is all in the digital domain ? WOW
>>
>> chuck duffy wrote:
>>> Find my post that explains it. I wasn't using an oscilliscope, just the
> source
>>> code for the mixer.
>>>
>>> Behind the scenes, and without your knowledge, paris is dipping the individual
>>> channels by 22 db. Then it applies 22 db makeup on the master. That's
> why
>>> you can push the individual channels so hard and make things 'gel'. This
>>> is what many analog consoles do.
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>> John <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>> How do you know that is true? Are you putting an oscilloscope on the
>
>>>> Submix masters ?
>>>>
>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>> Everything is attenuated by -22dB but it doesn't look like it and it
> still
>>>>> sounds like it's at normal levels, which it isn't, except that since
> it
>>>>> sounds like it so when you are seeing levels at the submix faders that
>>> are
>>>>> at 0 zero dB, they really aren't, they are -22dB lower at the global
>>>>> fader.........except that they will have the same SPL as a normal DAW
>>> would
>>>>> at zero dB.......now explain that one.
>>>>>
>>>>> ;o)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45392dd8$1@linux...
>>>>>> OK, I've been too busy working on my job and my car (new 1966 Thunderbird
>>>>>> is the ride, and she's lovely) and haven't posted in a bit. But, during
>>>>> the
>>>>>> 35 seconds when Deej was going to simplify his rig and go native there
>>> was
>>>>>> discussion about the way levels are managed from channels/busses to
> the
>>>>> master
>>>>>> output in PARIS. Can someone explain this to me in much greater detail?
>>>>> Keep
>>>>>> in mind I know my digital stuff just fine but I know less about how
> to
>>>>> design
>>>>>> a console than I do how to make and anti-gravity machine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TCB
>
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| Re: Levels and summing [message #74561 is a reply to message #74549] |
Sat, 21 October 2006 06:10 |
chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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Why do you think there is floating point in paris? It's strictly integer.
They drop the *individual* channels by 22, but show the actual levels on
the channel meters. Then they beef up the master by 22 to add it back.
It's just like analog consoles used to do.
Chuck
John <no@no.com> wrote:
>So doing the math to sum em, do they run out of floating point top end
>and have to drop -20 to get digital headroom?
>
>chuck duffy wrote:
>> 100% in the digital domain.
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>> John <no@no.com> wrote:
>>> This is all in the digital domain ? WOW
>>>
>>> chuck duffy wrote:
>>>> Find my post that explains it. I wasn't using an oscilliscope, just
the
>> source
>>>> code for the mixer.
>>>>
>>>> Behind the scenes, and without your knowledge, paris is dipping the
individual
>>>> channels by 22 db. Then it applies 22 db makeup on the master. That's
>> why
>>>> you can push the individual channels so hard and make things 'gel'.
This
>>>> is what many analog consoles do.
>>>>
>>>> Chuck
>>>>
>>>> John <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>> How do you know that is true? Are you putting an oscilloscope on the
>>
>>>>> Submix masters ?
>>>>>
>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>>> Everything is attenuated by -22dB but it doesn't look like it and
it
>> still
>>>>>> sounds like it's at normal levels, which it isn't, except that since
>> it
>>>>>> sounds like it so when you are seeing levels at the submix faders
that
>>>> are
>>>>>> at 0 zero dB, they really aren't, they are -22dB lower at the global
>>>>>> fader.........except that they will have the same SPL as a normal
DAW
>>>> would
>>>>>> at zero dB.......now explain that one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ;o)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45392dd8$1@linux...
>>>>>>> OK, I've been too busy working on my job and my car (new 1966 Thunderbird
>>>>>>> is the ride, and she's lovely) and haven't posted in a bit. But,
during
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> 35 seconds when Deej was going to simplify his rig and go native
there
>>>> was
>>>>>>> discussion about the way levels are managed from channels/busses
to
>> the
>>>>>> master
>>>>>>> output in PARIS. Can someone explain this to me in much greater detail?
>>>>>> Keep
>>>>>>> in mind I know my digital stuff just fine but I know less about how
>> to
>>>>>> design
>>>>>>> a console than I do how to make and anti-gravity machine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> TCB
>>
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| Re: Levels and summing [message #74565 is a reply to message #74531] |
Sat, 21 October 2006 08:20 |
Don Nafe
Messages: 1206
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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I have promised myself that should this recording/mixing thing become a
viable business I will treat myself to a) a full dressed Harley or b) a
65/66 T-Bird Convertible
so far we're halfway there
Don
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45393f12$1@linux...
>
> Ah, don't have any yet but I'll take some. She really is a lovely one.
> Standard
> hardtop (no Landau or convertible), Green, in pretty darn good shape, but
> of course there's a lot to be done . . .
>
> TCB
>
> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>>Pics of the bird man, pics of the bird!
>>
>>Don
>>
>>
>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45392dd8$1@linux...
>>>
>>> OK, I've been too busy working on my job and my car (new 1966
>>> Thunderbird
>>> is the ride, and she's lovely) and haven't posted in a bit. But, during
>
>>> the
>>> 35 seconds when Deej was going to simplify his rig and go native there
> was
>>> discussion about the way levels are managed from channels/busses to the
>
>>> master
>>> output in PARIS. Can someone explain this to me in much greater detail?
>
>>> Keep
>>> in mind I know my digital stuff just fine but I know less about how to
>
>>> design
>>> a console than I do how to make and anti-gravity machine.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> TCB
>>
>>
>
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| Re: Levels and summing [message #74580 is a reply to message #74565] |
Sat, 21 October 2006 12:45 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
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Senior Member |
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I had a 65' hard top .. tre' cool man. The dash lighting, sequential signals
and flip away steering were definitely the bomb.
AA
"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:453a38c3$1@linux...
>I have promised myself that should this recording/mixing thing become a
>viable business I will treat myself to a) a full dressed Harley or b) a
>65/66 T-Bird Convertible
>
> so far we're halfway there
>
> Don
>
>
> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45393f12$1@linux...
>>
>> Ah, don't have any yet but I'll take some. She really is a lovely one.
>> Standard
>> hardtop (no Landau or convertible), Green, in pretty darn good shape, but
>> of course there's a lot to be done . . .
>>
>> TCB
>>
>> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>>>Pics of the bird man, pics of the bird!
>>>
>>>Don
>>>
>>>
>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45392dd8$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> OK, I've been too busy working on my job and my car (new 1966
>>>> Thunderbird
>>>> is the ride, and she's lovely) and haven't posted in a bit. But, during
>>
>>>> the
>>>> 35 seconds when Deej was going to simplify his rig and go native there
>> was
>>>> discussion about the way levels are managed from channels/busses to the
>>
>>>> master
>>>> output in PARIS. Can someone explain this to me in much greater detail?
>>
>>>> Keep
>>>> in mind I know my digital stuff just fine but I know less about how to
>>
>>>> design
>>>> a console than I do how to make and anti-gravity machine.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> TCB
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: Levels and summing [message #74598 is a reply to message #74539] |
Sat, 21 October 2006 17:09 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
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Hey Chuck,
I still can't find the original post you're talking about, but thanks so
much for piping in. That's REALLY interesting. I must needs try some new
things with the native systems I use. Wow. Funny stuff. I've got mean things
on my mind . . .
TCB
"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>
>Find my post that explains it. I wasn't using an oscilliscope, just the
source
>code for the mixer.
>
>Behind the scenes, and without your knowledge, paris is dipping the individual
>channels by 22 db. Then it applies 22 db makeup on the master. That's
why
>you can push the individual channels so hard and make things 'gel'. This
>is what many analog consoles do.
>
>Chuck
>
>John <no@no.com> wrote:
>>How do you know that is true? Are you putting an oscilloscope on the
>>Submix masters ?
>>
>>DJ wrote:
>>> Everything is attenuated by -22dB but it doesn't look like it and it
still
>>> sounds like it's at normal levels, which it isn't, except that since
it
>>> sounds like it so when you are seeing levels at the submix faders that
>are
>>> at 0 zero dB, they really aren't, they are -22dB lower at the global
>>> fader.........except that they will have the same SPL as a normal DAW
>would
>>> at zero dB.......now explain that one.
>>>
>>> ;o)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45392dd8$1@linux...
>>>> OK, I've been too busy working on my job and my car (new 1966 Thunderbird
>>>> is the ride, and she's lovely) and haven't posted in a bit. But, during
>>> the
>>>> 35 seconds when Deej was going to simplify his rig and go native there
>was
>>>> discussion about the way levels are managed from channels/busses to
the
>>> master
>>>> output in PARIS. Can someone explain this to me in much greater detail?
>>> Keep
>>>> in mind I know my digital stuff just fine but I know less about how
to
>>> design
>>>> a console than I do how to make and anti-gravity machine.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> TCB
>>>
>>>
>
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| Re: Levels and summing [message #74600 is a reply to message #74565] |
Sat, 21 October 2006 18:07 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I'm scared of two wheelers of any kind but I love my 'bird. The one I bought
is amazing on the engine front, purrs like a kitten. But it has pretty serious
electrical problems. I've managed to get the basics working, the headlights
and (gloriously sequential) tailights work, along with the turn signals and
such. But the entire dash is dark and there's a short somewhere so I get
all redeck when I drive it and pop the hood to turn off the battery mains
whenever I park it. There's some body work to do as well but she's a pretty
sweet ride. I'll get some snaps soon.
TCB
"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>I have promised myself that should this recording/mixing thing become a
>viable business I will treat myself to a) a full dressed Harley or b) a
>65/66 T-Bird Convertible
>
>so far we're halfway there
>
>Don
>
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45393f12$1@linux...
>>
>> Ah, don't have any yet but I'll take some. She really is a lovely one.
>> Standard
>> hardtop (no Landau or convertible), Green, in pretty darn good shape,
but
>> of course there's a lot to be done . . .
>>
>> TCB
>>
>> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>>>Pics of the bird man, pics of the bird!
>>>
>>>Don
>>>
>>>
>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45392dd8$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> OK, I've been too busy working on my job and my car (new 1966
>>>> Thunderbird
>>>> is the ride, and she's lovely) and haven't posted in a bit. But, during
>>
>>>> the
>>>> 35 seconds when Deej was going to simplify his rig and go native there
>> was
>>>> discussion about the way levels are managed from channels/busses to
the
>>
>>>> master
>>>> output in PARIS. Can someone explain this to me in much greater detail?
>>
>>>> Keep
>>>> in mind I know my digital stuff just fine but I know less about how
to
>>
>>>> design
>>>> a console than I do how to make and anti-gravity machine.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> TCB
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: Levels and summing [message #74603 is a reply to message #74600] |
Sat, 21 October 2006 20:01 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Bitchin' cars.
Just makes you want to catch an old Highlander marathon...
heh
DC
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>I'm scared of two wheelers of any kind but I love my 'bird. The one I bought
>is amazing on the engine front, purrs like a kitten. But it has pretty serious
>electrical problems. I've managed to get the basics working, the headlights
>and (gloriously sequential) tailights work, along with the turn signals
and
>such. But the entire dash is dark and there's a short somewhere so I get
>all redeck when I drive it and pop the hood to turn off the battery mains
>whenever I park it. There's some body work to do as well but she's a pretty
>sweet ride. I'll get some snaps soon.
>
>TCB
>
>"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>>I have promised myself that should this recording/mixing thing become a
>
>>viable business I will treat myself to a) a full dressed Harley or b) a
>
>>65/66 T-Bird Convertible
>>
>>so far we're halfway there
>>
>>Don
>>
>>
>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45393f12$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Ah, don't have any yet but I'll take some. She really is a lovely one.
>
>>> Standard
>>> hardtop (no Landau or convertible), Green, in pretty darn good shape,
>but
>>> of course there's a lot to be done . . .
>>>
>>> TCB
>>>
>>> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>>>>Pics of the bird man, pics of the bird!
>>>>
>>>>Don
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45392dd8$1@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, I've been too busy working on my job and my car (new 1966
>>>>> Thunderbird
>>>>> is the ride, and she's lovely) and haven't posted in a bit. But, during
>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>> 35 seconds when Deej was going to simplify his rig and go native there
>>> was
>>>>> discussion about the way levels are managed from channels/busses to
>the
>>>
>>>>> master
>>>>> output in PARIS. Can someone explain this to me in much greater detail?
>>>
>>>>> Keep
>>>>> in mind I know my digital stuff just fine but I know less about how
>to
>>>
>>>>> design
>>>>> a console than I do how to make and anti-gravity machine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> TCB
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Levels and summing [message #74605 is a reply to message #74600] |
Sun, 22 October 2006 03:45 |
John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Can you remove some fuses to the dash until you find the short?
TCB wrote:
> I'm scared of two wheelers of any kind but I love my 'bird. The one I bought
> is amazing on the engine front, purrs like a kitten. But it has pretty serious
> electrical problems. I've managed to get the basics working, the headlights
> and (gloriously sequential) tailights work, along with the turn signals and
> such. But the entire dash is dark and there's a short somewhere so I get
> all redeck when I drive it and pop the hood to turn off the battery mains
> whenever I park it. There's some body work to do as well but she's a pretty
> sweet ride. I'll get some snaps soon.
>
> TCB
>
> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>> I have promised myself that should this recording/mixing thing become a
>
>> viable business I will treat myself to a) a full dressed Harley or b) a
>
>> 65/66 T-Bird Convertible
>>
>> so far we're halfway there
>>
>> Don
>>
>>
>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45393f12$1@linux...
>>> Ah, don't have any yet but I'll take some. She really is a lovely one.
>
>>> Standard
>>> hardtop (no Landau or convertible), Green, in pretty darn good shape,
> but
>>> of course there's a lot to be done . . .
>>>
>>> TCB
>>>
>>> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>>>> Pics of the bird man, pics of the bird!
>>>>
>>>> Don
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45392dd8$1@linux...
>>>>> OK, I've been too busy working on my job and my car (new 1966
>>>>> Thunderbird
>>>>> is the ride, and she's lovely) and haven't posted in a bit. But, during
>>>>> the
>>>>> 35 seconds when Deej was going to simplify his rig and go native there
>>> was
>>>>> discussion about the way levels are managed from channels/busses to
> the
>>>>> master
>>>>> output in PARIS. Can someone explain this to me in much greater detail?
>>>>> Keep
>>>>> in mind I know my digital stuff just fine but I know less about how
> to
>>>>> design
>>>>> a console than I do how to make and anti-gravity machine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> TCB
>>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Levels and summing [message #74617 is a reply to message #74598] |
Sun, 22 October 2006 08:25 |
chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Thad,
I wish I could write a simple vst plug that would mimic what paris does in
a native system, but I can't figure out how to make the (say cubase for example)
meters show anything other than what's really in the signal path.
It would be cool if only to see if it made any kind of difference in a native
mix.
Chuck
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>Hey Chuck,
>
>I still can't find the original post you're talking about, but thanks so
>much for piping in. That's REALLY interesting. I must needs try some new
>things with the native systems I use. Wow. Funny stuff. I've got mean things
>on my mind . . .
>
>TCB
>
>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>
>>Find my post that explains it. I wasn't using an oscilliscope, just the
>source
>>code for the mixer.
>>
>>Behind the scenes, and without your knowledge, paris is dipping the individual
>>channels by 22 db. Then it applies 22 db makeup on the master. That's
>why
>>you can push the individual channels so hard and make things 'gel'. This
>>is what many analog consoles do.
>>
>>Chuck
>>
>>John <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>How do you know that is true? Are you putting an oscilloscope on the
>>>Submix masters ?
>>>
>>>DJ wrote:
>>>> Everything is attenuated by -22dB but it doesn't look like it and it
>still
>>>> sounds like it's at normal levels, which it isn't, except that since
>it
>>>> sounds like it so when you are seeing levels at the submix faders that
>>are
>>>> at 0 zero dB, they really aren't, they are -22dB lower at the global
>>>> fader.........except that they will have the same SPL as a normal DAW
>>would
>>>> at zero dB.......now explain that one.
>>>>
>>>> ;o)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45392dd8$1@linux...
>>>>> OK, I've been too busy working on my job and my car (new 1966 Thunderbird
>>>>> is the ride, and she's lovely) and haven't posted in a bit. But, during
>>>> the
>>>>> 35 seconds when Deej was going to simplify his rig and go native there
>>was
>>>>> discussion about the way levels are managed from channels/busses to
>the
>>>> master
>>>>> output in PARIS. Can someone explain this to me in much greater detail?
>>>> Keep
>>>>> in mind I know my digital stuff just fine but I know less about how
>to
>>>> design
>>>>> a console than I do how to make and anti-gravity machine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> TCB
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Levels and summing [message #74618 is a reply to message #74617] |
Sun, 22 October 2006 08:30 |
chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
duh duh duh, Thad (or anyone else) is there a way to set an insert effect
to post fader, post meter in cubase?
Does the resistor on a channel prior to summing in an analog console change
the sonic characteristcs at all? If it does it would probably be fairly
simple to model dontcha think?
Chuck
"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>
>Thad,
>
>I wish I could write a simple vst plug that would mimic what paris does
in
>a native system, but I can't figure out how to make the (say cubase for
example)
>meters show anything other than what's really in the signal path.
>
>It would be cool if only to see if it made any kind of difference in a native
>mix.
>
>Chuck
>
>
>
>
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>Hey Chuck,
>>
>>I still can't find the original post you're talking about, but thanks so
>>much for piping in. That's REALLY interesting. I must needs try some new
>>things with the native systems I use. Wow. Funny stuff. I've got mean things
>>on my mind . . .
>>
>>TCB
>>
>>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Find my post that explains it. I wasn't using an oscilliscope, just the
>>source
>>>code for the mixer.
>>>
>>>Behind the scenes, and without your knowledge, paris is dipping the individual
>>>channels by 22 db. Then it applies 22 db makeup on the master. That's
>>why
>>>you can push the individual channels so hard and make things 'gel'. This
>>>is what many analog consoles do.
>>>
>>>Chuck
>>>
>>>John <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>How do you know that is true? Are you putting an oscilloscope on the
>
>>>>Submix masters ?
>>>>
>>>>DJ wrote:
>>>>> Everything is attenuated by -22dB but it doesn't look like it and it
>>still
>>>>> sounds like it's at normal levels, which it isn't, except that since
>>it
>>>>> sounds like it so when you are seeing levels at the submix faders that
>>>are
>>>>> at 0 zero dB, they really aren't, they are -22dB lower at the global
>>>>> fader.........except that they will have the same SPL as a normal DAW
>>>would
>>>>> at zero dB.......now explain that one.
>>>>>
>>>>> ;o)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45392dd8$1@linux...
>>>>>> OK, I've been too busy working on my job and my car (new 1966 Thunderbird
>>>>>> is the ride, and she's lovely) and haven't posted in a bit. But, during
>>>>> the
>>>>>> 35 seconds when Deej was going to simplify his rig and go native there
>>>was
>>>>>> discussion about the way levels are managed from channels/busses to
>>the
>>>>> master
>>>>>> output in PARIS. Can someone explain this to me in much greater detail?
>>>>> Keep
>>>>>> in mind I know my digital stuff just fine but I know less about how
>>to
>>>>> design
>>>>>> a console than I do how to make and anti-gravity machine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TCB
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Levels and summing [message #74625 is a reply to message #74621] |
Sun, 22 October 2006 10:08 |
Nil
Messages: 245
Registered: March 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
OK, then how about this... (and I don't even know if this is
possible, as I'm no codehead, but...) can you make part of that
plugin's GUI package a separate meter that overlays the Cubase
channel meter, permanently/constantly, when that plugin is
installed & that particular view for the channel is selected? If
so, then you can make that meter read 22 db higher than the
actual Cubase meter and voila'!
And make it that nice pretty Paris gold color, too, so that
when they just look at the channel itself they'll know if that
plugin is inserted without having to go to the "inserts" menu.
Neil
"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>
>Neil,
>
>AFAIK the meters are driven by directly reading samples from the buffer.
> I don't know how to drive the channel meters any other way.
>
>Chuck
>
>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>
>>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>duh duh duh, Thad (or anyone else) is there a way to set an insert effect
>>>to post fader, post meter in cubase?
>>
>>I don't believe there is, Chuck - I just checked to make sure &
>>I couldn't find a way to do it. Is there any way to enter a
>>prompt line in the plugin code to show the metering as being
>>higher than the actual level?
>>
>>Neil
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Levels and summing [message #74633 is a reply to message #74617] |
Sun, 22 October 2006 11:57 |
John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
What if we just drop the levels of tracks 20db in cubase and crank our
mixer out and power amps up 20db in total?
Would that do it ?
chuck duffy wrote:
> Thad,
>
> I wish I could write a simple vst plug that would mimic what paris does in
> a native system, but I can't figure out how to make the (say cubase for example)
> meters show anything other than what's really in the signal path.
>
> It would be cool if only to see if it made any kind of difference in a native
> mix.
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
>
>
> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>> Hey Chuck,
>>
>> I still can't find the original post you're talking about, but thanks so
>> much for piping in. That's REALLY interesting. I must needs try some new
>> things with the native systems I use. Wow. Funny stuff. I've got mean things
>> on my mind . . .
>>
>> TCB
>>
>> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>> Find my post that explains it. I wasn't using an oscilliscope, just the
>> source
>>> code for the mixer.
>>>
>>> Behind the scenes, and without your knowledge, paris is dipping the individual
>>> channels by 22 db. Then it applies 22 db makeup on the master. That's
>> why
>>> you can push the individual channels so hard and make things 'gel'. This
>>> is what many analog consoles do.
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>> John <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>> How do you know that is true? Are you putting an oscilloscope on the
>
>>>> Submix masters ?
>>>>
>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>> Everything is attenuated by -22dB but it doesn't look like it and it
>> still
>>>>> sounds like it's at normal levels, which it isn't, except that since
>> it
>>>>> sounds like it so when you are seeing levels at the submix faders that
>>> are
>>>>> at 0 zero dB, they really aren't, they are -22dB lower at the global
>>>>> fader.........except that they will have the same SPL as a normal DAW
>>> would
>>>>> at zero dB.......now explain that one.
>>>>>
>>>>> ;o)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45392dd8$1@linux...
>>>>>> OK, I've been too busy working on my job and my car (new 1966 Thunderbird
>>>>>> is the ride, and she's lovely) and haven't posted in a bit. But, during
>>>>> the
>>>>>> 35 seconds when Deej was going to simplify his rig and go native there
>>> was
>>>>>> discussion about the way levels are managed from channels/busses to
>> the
>>>>> master
>>>>>> output in PARIS. Can someone explain this to me in much greater detail?
>>>>> Keep
>>>>>> in mind I know my digital stuff just fine but I know less about how
>> to
>>>>> design
>>>>>> a console than I do how to make and anti-gravity machine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TCB
>>>>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Levels and summing [message #74634 is a reply to message #74618] |
Sun, 22 October 2006 11:59 |
John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
can you put plugs on totalmix on an hdsp9652 and send it back in on two
more tracks ? now I"m just rambling. hehe
chuck duffy wrote:
> duh duh duh, Thad (or anyone else) is there a way to set an insert effect
> to post fader, post meter in cubase?
>
> Does the resistor on a channel prior to summing in an analog console change
> the sonic characteristcs at all? If it does it would probably be fairly
> simple to model dontcha think?
>
> Chuck
> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>> Thad,
>>
>> I wish I could write a simple vst plug that would mimic what paris does
> in
>> a native system, but I can't figure out how to make the (say cubase for
> example)
>> meters show anything other than what's really in the signal path.
>>
>> It would be cool if only to see if it made any kind of difference in a native
>> mix.
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>> Hey Chuck,
>>>
>>> I still can't find the original post you're talking about, but thanks so
>>> much for piping in. That's REALLY interesting. I must needs try some new
>>> things with the native systems I use. Wow. Funny stuff. I've got mean things
>>> on my mind . . .
>>>
>>> TCB
>>>
>>> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>>> Find my post that explains it. I wasn't using an oscilliscope, just the
>>> source
>>>> code for the mixer.
>>>>
>>>> Behind the scenes, and without your knowledge, paris is dipping the individual
>>>> channels by 22 db. Then it applies 22 db makeup on the master. That's
>>> why
>>>> you can push the individual channels so hard and make things 'gel'. This
>>>> is what many analog consoles do.
>>>>
>>>> Chuck
>>>>
>>>> John <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>> How do you know that is true? Are you putting an oscilloscope on the
>>>>> Submix masters ?
>>>>>
>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>>> Everything is attenuated by -22dB but it doesn't look like it and it
>>> still
>>>>>> sounds like it's at normal levels, which it isn't, except that since
>>> it
>>>>>> sounds like it so when you are seeing levels at the submix faders that
>>>> are
>>>>>> at 0 zero dB, they really aren't, they are -22dB lower at the global
>>>>>> fader.........except that they will have the same SPL as a normal DAW
>>>> would
>>>>>> at zero dB.......now explain that one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ;o)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45392dd8$1@linux...
>>>>>>> OK, I've been too busy working on my job and my car (new 1966 Thunderbird
>>>>>>> is the ride, and she's lovely) and haven't posted in a bit. But, during
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> 35 seconds when Deej was going to simplify his rig and go native there
>>>> was
>>>>>>> discussion about the way levels are managed from channels/busses to
>>> the
>>>>>> master
>>>>>>> output in PARIS. Can someone explain this to me in much greater detail?
>>>>>> Keep
>>>>>>> in mind I know my digital stuff just fine but I know less about how
>>> to
>>>>>> design
>>>>>>> a console than I do how to make and anti-gravity machine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> TCB
>>>>>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Levels and summing [message #74650 is a reply to message #74618] |
Sun, 22 October 2006 15:04 |
Chris Ludwig
Messages: 868
Registered: May 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi Chuck,
Here is the signal flow for the inserts in Cubase/Nuendo.
insert audio path
Chris
chuck duffy wrote:
>duh duh duh, Thad (or anyone else) is there a way to set an insert effect
>to post fader, post meter in cubase?
>
>Does the resistor on a channel prior to summing in an analog console change
>the sonic characteristcs at all? If it does it would probably be fairly
>simple to model dontcha think?
>
>Chuck
>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Thad,
>>
>>I wish I could write a simple vst plug that would mimic what paris does
>>
>>
>in
>
>
>>a native system, but I can't figure out how to make the (say cubase for
>>
>>
>example)
>
>
>>meters show anything other than what's really in the signal path.
>>
>>It would be cool if only to see if it made any kind of difference in a native
>>mix.
>>
>>Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hey Chuck,
>>>
>>>I still can't find the original post you're talking about, but thanks so
>>>much for piping in. That's REALLY interesting. I must needs try some new
>>>things with the native systems I use. Wow. Funny stuff. I've got mean things
>>>on my mind . . .
>>>
>>>TCB
>>>
>>>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Find my post that explains it. I wasn't using an oscilliscope, just the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>source
>>>
>>>
>>>>code for the mixer.
>>>>
>>>>Behind the scenes, and without your knowledge, paris is dipping the individual
>>>>channels by 22 db. Then it applies 22 db makeup on the master. That's
>>>>
>>>>
>>>why
>>>
>>>
>>>>you can push the individual channels so hard and make things 'gel'. This
>>>>is what many analog consoles do.
>>>>
>>>>Chuck
>>>>
>>>>John <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>How do you know that is true? Are you putting an oscilloscope on the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Submix masters ?
>>>>>
>>>>>DJ wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Everything is attenuated by -22dB but it doesn't look like it and it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>still
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>sounds like it's at normal levels, which it isn't, except that since
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>it
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>sounds like it so when you are seeing levels at the submix faders that
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>are
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>at 0 zero dB, they really aren't, they are -22dB lower at the global
>>>>>>fader.........except that they will have the same SPL as a normal DAW
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>would
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>at zero dB.......now explain that one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>;o)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45392dd8$1@linux...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>OK, I've been too busy working on my job and my car (new 1966 Thunderbird
>>>>>>>is the ride, and she's lovely) and haven't posted in a bit. But, during
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>35 seconds when Deej was going to simplify his rig and go native there
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>was
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>discussion about the way levels are managed from channels/busses to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>master
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>output in PARIS. Can someone explain this to me in much greater detail?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Keep
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>in mind I know my digital stuff just fine but I know less about how
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>to
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>design
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>a console than I do how to make and anti-gravity machine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>TCB
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>
>
>
--
Chris Ludwig
ADK
chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
(859) 635-5762
|
|
|
|
| Re: Levels and summing [message #74651 is a reply to message #74633] |
Sun, 22 October 2006 15:06 |
animix
Messages: 356
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I tried that. I also tried creating busses, attenuating them by 20dB and
then applying various optomizers there, also tried lowering the main mix bus
and applying various gain makeup plugins there and all sorts of combinations
of the above on the busses and individual channels. Some of them sounded
very good actually and if I was mixing a lot of pop/rock/metal music which
lent itself well to this kind of processing, I wouldn't even think twice
about it. I liked it a lot. the thing about it that didn't work for me is
that what we do the most of here involves recording acoustic instruments
into microphones and mixing them. I need an unprocessed palate to start from
for what I do and the Paris mix bus works better for this than any
combination of stuff I tried in SX. Adding processing to make the bus(ses)
sound bigger, worked, but it also made the mix sound processed. I'm not
saying that it's not possible to get there though and I'm going to continue
plugging away at it in Cubase in my spare time. If Chuck/Skunkworks could
code a plugin that is colorless, it might be the magic bullet. I'm hoping to
find something like that in the Scope platform.
Deej
Deej
"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:453bbcfd@linux...
> What if we just drop the levels of tracks 20db in cubase and crank our
> mixer out and power amps up 20db in total?
>
> Would that do it ?
>
> chuck duffy wrote:
> > Thad,
> >
> > I wish I could write a simple vst plug that would mimic what paris does
in
> > a native system, but I can't figure out how to make the (say cubase for
example)
> > meters show anything other than what's really in the signal path.
> >
> > It would be cool if only to see if it made any kind of difference in a
native
> > mix.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
> >> Hey Chuck,
> >>
> >> I still can't find the original post you're talking about, but thanks
so
> >> much for piping in. That's REALLY interesting. I must needs try some
new
> >> things with the native systems I use. Wow. Funny stuff. I've got mean
things
> >> on my mind . . .
> >>
> >> TCB
> >>
> >> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
> >>> Find my post that explains it. I wasn't using an oscilliscope, just
the
> >> source
> >>> code for the mixer.
> >>>
> >>> Behind the scenes, and without your knowledge, paris is dipping the
individual
> >>> channels by 22 db. Then it applies 22 db makeup on the master.
That's
> >> why
> >>> you can push the individual channels so hard and make things 'gel'.
This
> >>> is what many analog consoles do.
> >>>
> >>> Chuck
> >>>
> >>> John <no@no.com> wrote:
> >>>> How do you know that is true? Are you putting an oscilloscope on the
> >
> >>>> Submix masters ?
> >>>>
> >>>> DJ wrote:
> >>>>> Everything is attenuated by -22dB but it doesn't look like it and it
> >> still
> >>>>> sounds like it's at normal levels, which it isn't, except that since
> >> it
> >>>>> sounds like it so when you are seeing levels at the submix faders
that
> >>> are
> >>>>> at 0 zero dB, they really aren't, they are -22dB lower at the global
> >>>>> fader.........except that they will have the same SPL as a normal
DAW
> >>> would
> >>>>> at zero dB.......now explain that one.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ;o)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45392dd8$1@linux...
> >>>>>> OK, I've been too busy working on my job and my car (new 1966
Thunderbird
> >>>>>> is the ride, and she's lovely) and haven't posted in a bit. But,
during
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>> 35 seconds when Deej was going to simplify his rig and go native
there
> >>> was
> >>>>>> discussion about the way levels are managed from channels/busses to
> >> the
> >>>>> master
> >>>>>> output in PARIS. Can someone explain this to me in much greater
detail?
> >>>>> Keep
> >>>>>> in mind I know my digital stuff just fine but I know less about how
> >> to
> >>>>> design
> >>>>>> a console than I do how to make and anti-gravity machine.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> TCB
> >>>>>
> >
|
|
|
|
| Re: Levels and summing [message #74652 is a reply to message #74650] |
Sun, 22 October 2006 17:16 |
Chris Ludwig
Messages: 868
Registered: May 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------070402030407090602030907
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
ok lets try this with an attached image instead.
Chris Ludwig wrote:
> Hi Chuck,
> Here is the signal flow for the inserts in Cubase/Nuendo.
>
>
> insert audio path
>
>
>
> Chris
>
> chuck duffy wrote:
>
>> duh duh duh, Thad (or anyone else) is there a way to set an insert
>> effect
>> to post fader, post meter in cubase?
>>
>> Does the resistor on a channel prior to summing in an analog console
>> change
>> the sonic characteristcs at all? If it does it would probably be
>> fairly
>> simple to model dontcha think?
>>
>> Chuck
>> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Thad,
>>>
>>> I wish I could write a simple vst plug that would mimic what paris does
>>>
>>
>> in
>>
>>
>>> a native system, but I can't figure out how to make the (say cubase for
>>>
>>
>> example)
>>
>>
>>> meters show anything other than what's really in the signal path.
>>> It would be cool if only to see if it made any kind of difference in
>>> a native
>>> mix.
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hey Chuck,
>>>>
>>>> I still can't find the original post you're talking about, but
>>>> thanks so
>>>> much for piping in. That's REALLY interesting. I must needs try
>>>> some new
>>>> things with the native systems I use. Wow. Funny stuff. I've got
>>>> mean things
>>>> on my mind . . .
>>>> TCB
>>>>
>>>> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Find my post that explains it. I wasn't using an oscilliscope,
>>>>> just the
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> source
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> code for the mixer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Behind the scenes, and without your knowledge, paris is dipping
>>>>> the individual
>>>>> channels by 22 db. Then it applies 22 db makeup on the master.
>>>>> That's
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> why
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> you can push the individual channels so hard and make things
>>>>> 'gel'. This
>>>>> is what many analog consoles do.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck
>>>>> John <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> How do you know that is true? Are you putting an oscilloscope on
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Submix masters ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Everything is attenuated by -22dB but it doesn't look like it
>>>>>>> and it
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> still
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> sounds like it's at normal levels, which it isn't, except that
>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> it
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> sounds like it so when you are seeing levels at the submix
>>>>>>> faders that
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> are
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> at 0 zero dB, they really aren't, they are -22dB lower at the
>>>>>>> global
>>>>>>> fader.........except that they will have the same SPL as a
>>>>>>> normal DAW
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> would
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> at zero dB.......now explain that one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ;o)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45392dd8$1@linux...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OK, I've been too busy working on my job and my car (new 1966
>>>>>>>> Thunderbird
>>>>>>>> is the ride, and she's lovely) and haven't posted in a bit.
>>>>>>>> But, during
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 35 seconds when Deej was going to simplify his rig and go
>>>>>>>> native there
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> was
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> discussion about the way levels are managed from
>>>>>>>> channels/busses to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> master
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> output in PARIS. Can someone explain this to me in much greater
>>>>>>>> detail?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Keep
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> in mind I know my digital stuff just fine but I know less about
>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> design
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a console than I do how to make and anti-gravity machine.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> TCB
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
--
Chris Ludwig
ADK
chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
(859) 635-5762
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|
|
|
|
| Re: Levels and summing [message #74653 is a reply to message #74625] |
Sun, 22 October 2006 17:35 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
<bump>
Chuck did you see this (below), would this work?
Neil
"Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>OK, then how about this... (and I don't even know if this is
>possible, as I'm no codehead, but...) can you make part of that
>plugin's GUI package a separate meter that overlays the Cubase
>channel meter, permanently/constantly, when that plugin is
>installed & that particular view for the channel is selected? If
>so, then you can make that meter read 22 db higher than the
>actual Cubase meter and voila'!
>
>And make it that nice pretty Paris gold color, too, so that
>when they just look at the channel itself they'll know if that
>plugin is inserted without having to go to the "inserts" menu.
>
>Neil
>
>
>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>
>>Neil,
>>
>>AFAIK the meters are driven by directly reading samples from the buffer.
>> I don't know how to drive the channel meters any other way.
>>
>>Chuck
>>
>>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>duh duh duh, Thad (or anyone else) is there a way to set an insert effect
>>>>to post fader, post meter in cubase?
>>>
>>>I don't believe there is, Chuck - I just checked to make sure &
>>>I couldn't find a way to do it. Is there any way to enter a
>>>prompt line in the plugin code to show the metering as being
>>>higher than the actual level?
>>>
>>>Neil
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Levels and summing [message #74654 is a reply to message #74653] |
Sun, 22 October 2006 20:32 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
BTW - Nuendo/Cubase meters can be pre and post fader.
Dedric
On 10/22/06 6:35 PM, in article 453c0e59$1@linux, "Neil" <OIUOI@OI.com>
wrote:
>
> <bump>
> Chuck did you see this (below), would this work?
>
> Neil
>
> "Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>
>> OK, then how about this... (and I don't even know if this is
>> possible, as I'm no codehead, but...) can you make part of that
>> plugin's GUI package a separate meter that overlays the Cubase
>> channel meter, permanently/constantly, when that plugin is
>> installed & that particular view for the channel is selected? If
>> so, then you can make that meter read 22 db higher than the
>> actual Cubase meter and voila'!
>>
>> And make it that nice pretty Paris gold color, too, so that
>> when they just look at the channel itself they'll know if that
>> plugin is inserted without having to go to the "inserts" menu.
>>
>> Neil
>>
>>
>> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Neil,
>>>
>>> AFAIK the meters are driven by directly reading samples from the buffer.
>>> I don't know how to drive the channel meters any other way.
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>> "Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> duh duh duh, Thad (or anyone else) is there a way to set an insert effect
>>>>> to post fader, post meter in cubase?
>>>>
>>>> I don't believe there is, Chuck - I just checked to make sure &
>>>> I couldn't find a way to do it. Is there any way to enter a
>>>> prompt line in the plugin code to show the metering as being
>>>> higher than the actual level?
>>>>
>>>> Neil
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Levels and summing [message #74661 is a reply to message #74654] |
Mon, 23 October 2006 04:40 |
chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I would need a post fader, post meter insert.
Chuck
Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>BTW - Nuendo/Cubase meters can be pre and post fader.
>
>Dedric
>
>On 10/22/06 6:35 PM, in article 453c0e59$1@linux, "Neil" <OIUOI@OI.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>> <bump>
>> Chuck did you see this (below), would this work?
>>
>> Neil
>>
>> "Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> OK, then how about this... (and I don't even know if this is
>>> possible, as I'm no codehead, but...) can you make part of that
>>> plugin's GUI package a separate meter that overlays the Cubase
>>> channel meter, permanently/constantly, when that plugin is
>>> installed & that particular view for the channel is selected? If
>>> so, then you can make that meter read 22 db higher than the
>>> actual Cubase meter and voila'!
>>>
>>> And make it that nice pretty Paris gold color, too, so that
>>> when they just look at the channel itself they'll know if that
>>> plugin is inserted without having to go to the "inserts" menu.
>>>
>>> Neil
>>>
>>>
>>> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Neil,
>>>>
>>>> AFAIK the meters are driven by directly reading samples from the buffer.
>>>> I don't know how to drive the channel meters any other way.
>>>>
>>>> Chuck
>>>>
>>>> "Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> duh duh duh, Thad (or anyone else) is there a way to set an insert
effect
>>>>>> to post fader, post meter in cubase?
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't believe there is, Chuck - I just checked to make sure &
>>>>> I couldn't find a way to do it. Is there any way to enter a
>>>>> prompt line in the plugin code to show the metering as being
>>>>> higher than the actual level?
>>>>>
>>>>> Neil
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Levels and summing [message #74685 is a reply to message #74661] |
Mon, 23 October 2006 11:30 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
What about routing every track to a group bus, i.e. a default project with
32 audio tracks, 16 f/x tracks, 16 instrument tracks, and 64 group tracks.
Then the groups are knocked down -22 db and then get routed to a) more groups
or b) the master. And the gain is made up at the master.
Even if this is cumbersome, is it 'sonically' correct?
TCB
"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>
>I would need a post fader, post meter insert.
>
>Chuck
>
>Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>BTW - Nuendo/Cubase meters can be pre and post fader.
>>
>>Dedric
>>
>>On 10/22/06 6:35 PM, in article 453c0e59$1@linux, "Neil" <OIUOI@OI.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> <bump>
>>> Chuck did you see this (below), would this work?
>>>
>>> Neil
>>>
>>> "Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> OK, then how about this... (and I don't even know if this is
>>>> possible, as I'm no codehead, but...) can you make part of that
>>>> plugin's GUI package a separate meter that overlays the Cubase
>>>> channel meter, permanently/constantly, when that plugin is
>>>> installed & that particular view for the channel is selected? If
>>>> so, then you can make that meter read 22 db higher than the
>>>> actual Cubase meter and voila'!
>>>>
>>>> And make it that nice pretty Paris gold color, too, so that
>>>> when they just look at the channel itself they'll know if that
>>>> plugin is inserted without having to go to the "inserts" menu.
>>>>
>>>> Neil
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Neil,
>>>>>
>>>>> AFAIK the meters are driven by directly reading samples from the buffer.
>>>>> I don't know how to drive the channel meters any other way.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck
>>>>>
>>>>> "Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> duh duh duh, Thad (or anyone else) is there a way to set an insert
>effect
>>>>>>> to post fader, post meter in cubase?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't believe there is, Chuck - I just checked to make sure &
>>>>>> I couldn't find a way to do it. Is there any way to enter a
>>>>>> prompt line in the plugin code to show the metering as being
>>>>>> higher than the actual level?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Neil
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: Levels and summing [message #74703 is a reply to message #74685] |
Mon, 23 October 2006 16:43 |
chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
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Hi Thad,
This might do it. I wasn't really looking for sonic correctness, just testing
a theory that people who like the paris sound, could get a more 'paris like'
mix, by making the native app do the *only* major difference I can spot in
the paris code.
Chuck
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>What about routing every track to a group bus, i.e. a default project with
>32 audio tracks, 16 f/x tracks, 16 instrument tracks, and 64 group tracks.
>Then the groups are knocked down -22 db and then get routed to a) more groups
>or b) the master. And the gain is made up at the master.
>
>Even if this is cumbersome, is it 'sonically' correct?
>
>TCB
>
>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>
>>I would need a post fader, post meter insert.
>>
>>Chuck
>>
>>Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>BTW - Nuendo/Cubase meters can be pre and post fader.
>>>
>>>Dedric
>>>
>>>On 10/22/06 6:35 PM, in article 453c0e59$1@linux, "Neil" <OIUOI@OI.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> <bump>
>>>> Chuck did you see this (below), would this work?
>>>>
>>>> Neil
>>>>
>>>> "Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, then how about this... (and I don't even know if this is
>>>>> possible, as I'm no codehead, but...) can you make part of that
>>>>> plugin's GUI package a separate meter that overlays the Cubase
>>>>> channel meter, permanently/constantly, when that plugin is
>>>>> installed & that particular view for the channel is selected? If
>>>>> so, then you can make that meter read 22 db higher than the
>>>>> actual Cubase meter and voila'!
>>>>>
>>>>> And make it that nice pretty Paris gold color, too, so that
>>>>> when they just look at the channel itself they'll know if that
>>>>> plugin is inserted without having to go to the "inserts" menu.
>>>>>
>>>>> Neil
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Neil,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AFAIK the meters are driven by directly reading samples from the buffer.
>>>>>> I don't know how to drive the channel meters any other way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chuck
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> duh duh duh, Thad (or anyone else) is there a way to set an insert
>>effect
>>>>>>>> to post fader, post meter in cubase?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't believe there is, Chuck - I just checked to make sure &
>>>>>>> I couldn't find a way to do it. Is there any way to enter a
>>>>>>> prompt line in the plugin code to show the metering as being
>>>>>>> higher than the actual level?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Neil
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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