Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Ron Paul Video
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| Re: Ron Paul Video [message #91372 is a reply to message #91369] |
Fri, 12 October 2007 12:12   |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:470fc30b$1@linux...
>
> well fair enough, i have to agree with you there
Well, since he is fluent in snake, at least presumably as a second language,
I'm feeling much more comfortable with this. I mean, I think we need more
docors in politics personally. These guys don't f*** around. They get things
done in a big way.........I mean, let's take Che Guevara, Francois Duvalier,
Al Zawahiri, Bilal Abdulla, Sabeel Ahmed and Joseph Mengele for
example..............
I feel safer already
;o)
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| Re: Ron Paul Video [message #91378 is a reply to message #91372] |
Fri, 12 October 2007 13:49 |
Bill L
Messages: 766
Registered: August 2006
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Senior Member |
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DJ, Sanity is the ability to perceive differences and similarities. The
difference between Ron Paul and those other creeps is Ron Paul delivered
babies and was a flight surgeon in the Air Force before he went into
politics.
If just one of the changes Paul wants to make gets implemented, the
country would be a better place.
The other guys and gals? Bigger government, less freedom. Fuck 'em!
DJ wrote:
> "John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:470fc30b$1@linux...
>> well fair enough, i have to agree with you there
>
> Well, since he is fluent in snake, at least presumably as a second language,
> I'm feeling much more comfortable with this. I mean, I think we need more
> docors in politics personally. These guys don't f*** around. They get things
> done in a big way.........I mean, let's take Che Guevara, Francois Duvalier,
> Al Zawahiri, Bilal Abdulla, Sabeel Ahmed and Joseph Mengele for
> example..............
>
> I feel safer already
>
> ;o)
>
>
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| Re: Ron Paul Video [message #91393 is a reply to message #91372] |
Fri, 12 October 2007 16:35 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
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Senior Member |
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hey,,,mengele tried to put monkey glands in one of my uncles...yeah,
he's dead...along with a few others. yup, i've got some euro blood in
me.
On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:12:32 -0600, "DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _
net> wrote:
>
>"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:470fc30b$1@linux...
>>
>> well fair enough, i have to agree with you there
>
>Well, since he is fluent in snake, at least presumably as a second language,
>I'm feeling much more comfortable with this. I mean, I think we need more
>docors in politics personally. These guys don't f*** around. They get things
>done in a big way.........I mean, let's take Che Guevara, Francois Duvalier,
>Al Zawahiri, Bilal Abdulla, Sabeel Ahmed and Joseph Mengele for
>example..............
>
>I feel safer already
>
>;o)
>
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| Re: Ron Paul Video [message #91411 is a reply to message #91410] |
Sat, 13 October 2007 08:50 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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He didn't have the tools to understand the personality
defects of the Cesears,though as a historical source
he is invaluable and allows us to support the very point
you make.
Hare has a rather startling thesis in "Without Conscience".
that asserts that there are shades of socio/psychopathology
beyond the sane/insane paradigm. Hare believes that there
are millions of moderate to mild sociopaths and psychopaths
in our society. In the case of sociopaths in particular, their
narcissism and lack of conscience lead me to believe that
they are particularly attracted to visible, powerful, and
leadership positions. This thesis is mine, not Hare's and
I may write on it. It seems unavoidable given his assertions.
If you cannot think of a clear example of consistent and
methodical use of conscience in presidents in our lifetimes,
and I cannot (despite the fact that there are a few singular
examples, you still must remember that even Scott Petersen
could cry on demand if he thought it would get him a reward)
then I suspect that our image-driven media and the sheer
size of our population, combined with the enormous power
of the US Presidency,has indeed filled the office with the
conscience-free in recent decades.
I don't see how to change it, regardless of what
paradigm we use to understand it.
At any rate, you have badly misunderstood Hare. Start with
"Without Conscience". You will recognize many people
you have dealt with. With the music biz in particular, the
mild to moderate sociopath is the standard-issue personality.
!
DC
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>Um, Don, you were talking about politicians? Yes? Not workplace shooters?
>So again, I suggest Suetonius, but you can take it or leave it. I've read
>it already
>
>TCB
>
>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>
>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Read up on your Suetonius, Don, that's the underlying theme of 'The Twelve
>>>Caesars.'
>>>
>>>TCB
>>
>>
>>I think Bob Hare is a lot closer...
>>
>>
>>http://www.hare.org/
>>
>>
>>DC
>>
>
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| Re: Ron Paul Video [message #91424 is a reply to message #91418] |
Sun, 14 October 2007 09:28 |
Bill L
Messages: 766
Registered: August 2006
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Senior Member |
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Well said, Sarah.
Look, folks, our current leaders for the most part suck. They don't even
know that was solves nothing. That's about as lame as a leader can be. I
have read that, other than Paul and Obama, every one of the candidates
voted to invade Iraq.
if we spent our abundant national energies and resources exporting
(selling fairly, not giving) our technologies, tractors, cars, science
and most of all, our art, we would be loved around the world once again
as we once were.
Sarah wrote:
> Using Taser Boy and Romney's tree may have been questionable decisions on
> the part of whoever edited the video clips together, but that was not Ron
> Paul, so I wouldn't judge him by the work of one of his fans.
>
> S
>
>
> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:470fafad$1@linux...
>> Fair enough, but Paul blew it in a couple places in that video.
>>
>> The first one was the graphic showing in big scary headlines
>>
>> "POLYGAMISTS IN ROMNEY FAMILY TREE!!!"
>>
>> Now I don't care about Romney either, but who freakin' CARES
>> about this?
>>
>> How about your family tree? How about mine!
>>
>> Holy cow, man! We'd all be in hell.
>>
>> That sort of stuff, and presenting asshat tase-boy as a
>> victim, say that Paul is manipulating me...
>>
>> no thanks
>>
>> I am beoming more and more convinced that high-visibility
>> leadership and power positions attract the worst sort of
>> sociopaths and lunatics. And today, I do not see how anyone
>> else has a chance.
>>
>> DC
>>
>>
>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>> Do you trust your leaders? Are you easily led?
>>> I would trust Ron Paul over any of the others combined. I would not trust
>>> the others. Obama seems more trustworthy than the rest though coming in
>>> 2nd to Paul.
>>>
>>> Too bad the fix is already in.
>>>
>>> X Rudi
>>> X Hillary
>>>
>>> I pick neither.
>>>
>
>
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| Re: Ron Paul Video [message #91436 is a reply to message #91424] |
Sun, 14 October 2007 15:14 |
Sarah
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2007
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Senior Member |
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I believe Kucinich also voted against the Iraq shindig, but he's a little
too much of a goofball for my tastes. :)
S
"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:47124530$1@linux...
> Well said, Sarah.
>
> Look, folks, our current leaders for the most part suck. They don't even
> know that was solves nothing. That's about as lame as a leader can be. I
> have read that, other than Paul and Obama, every one of the candidates
> voted to invade Iraq.
>
> if we spent our abundant national energies and resources exporting
> (selling fairly, not giving) our technologies, tractors, cars, science and
> most of all, our art, we would be loved around the world once again as we
> once were.
>
> Sarah wrote:
>> Using Taser Boy and Romney's tree may have been questionable decisions on
>> the part of whoever edited the video clips together, but that was not Ron
>> Paul, so I wouldn't judge him by the work of one of his fans.
>>
>> S
>>
>>
>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:470fafad$1@linux...
>>> Fair enough, but Paul blew it in a couple places in that video.
>>>
>>> The first one was the graphic showing in big scary headlines
>>>
>>> "POLYGAMISTS IN ROMNEY FAMILY TREE!!!"
>>>
>>> Now I don't care about Romney either, but who freakin' CARES
>>> about this?
>>>
>>> How about your family tree? How about mine!
>>>
>>> Holy cow, man! We'd all be in hell.
>>>
>>> That sort of stuff, and presenting asshat tase-boy as a
>>> victim, say that Paul is manipulating me...
>>>
>>> no thanks
>>>
>>> I am beoming more and more convinced that high-visibility
>>> leadership and power positions attract the worst sort of
>>> sociopaths and lunatics. And today, I do not see how anyone
>>> else has a chance.
>>>
>>> DC
>>>
>>>
>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>> Do you trust your leaders? Are you easily led?
>>>> I would trust Ron Paul over any of the others combined. I would not
>>>> trust
>>>> the others. Obama seems more trustworthy than the rest though coming
>>>> in
>>>> 2nd to Paul.
>>>>
>>>> Too bad the fix is already in.
>>>>
>>>> X Rudi
>>>> X Hillary
>>>>
>>>> I pick neither.
>>>>
>>
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| Re: Ron Paul Video [message #91450 is a reply to message #91436] |
Mon, 15 October 2007 05:33 |
Bill L
Messages: 766
Registered: August 2006
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Senior Member |
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Good about Kucinich. I'm glad to hear there is one more person of sense
in Washington. I think many politicians are good people. Unfortunately
they are the ones who seem to have a hard time raising money and getting
support from the media.
Sarah wrote:
> I believe Kucinich also voted against the Iraq shindig, but he's a little
> too much of a goofball for my tastes. :)
>
> S
>
>
> "Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:47124530$1@linux...
>> Well said, Sarah.
>>
>> Look, folks, our current leaders for the most part suck. They don't even
>> know that was solves nothing. That's about as lame as a leader can be. I
>> have read that, other than Paul and Obama, every one of the candidates
>> voted to invade Iraq.
>>
>> if we spent our abundant national energies and resources exporting
>> (selling fairly, not giving) our technologies, tractors, cars, science and
>> most of all, our art, we would be loved around the world once again as we
>> once were.
>>
>> Sarah wrote:
>>> Using Taser Boy and Romney's tree may have been questionable decisions on
>>> the part of whoever edited the video clips together, but that was not Ron
>>> Paul, so I wouldn't judge him by the work of one of his fans.
>>>
>>> S
>>>
>>>
>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:470fafad$1@linux...
>>>> Fair enough, but Paul blew it in a couple places in that video.
>>>>
>>>> The first one was the graphic showing in big scary headlines
>>>>
>>>> "POLYGAMISTS IN ROMNEY FAMILY TREE!!!"
>>>>
>>>> Now I don't care about Romney either, but who freakin' CARES
>>>> about this?
>>>>
>>>> How about your family tree? How about mine!
>>>>
>>>> Holy cow, man! We'd all be in hell.
>>>>
>>>> That sort of stuff, and presenting asshat tase-boy as a
>>>> victim, say that Paul is manipulating me...
>>>>
>>>> no thanks
>>>>
>>>> I am beoming more and more convinced that high-visibility
>>>> leadership and power positions attract the worst sort of
>>>> sociopaths and lunatics. And today, I do not see how anyone
>>>> else has a chance.
>>>>
>>>> DC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Do you trust your leaders? Are you easily led?
>>>>> I would trust Ron Paul over any of the others combined. I would not
>>>>> trust
>>>>> the others. Obama seems more trustworthy than the rest though coming
>>>>> in
>>>>> 2nd to Paul.
>>>>>
>>>>> Too bad the fix is already in.
>>>>>
>>>>> X Rudi
>>>>> X Hillary
>>>>>
>>>>> I pick neither.
>>>>>
>
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| Re: Ron Paul Video [message #91462 is a reply to message #91411] |
Mon, 15 October 2007 12:53 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
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Senior Member |
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Suetonius lacked the tools to understand personality defects??? That's like
saying Greek sculptors lacked the ability to understand art because they
couldn't attend RISD. That's insane. Some of the tools we use to analyze
personality were built into us when we were still chimps. And you even Suetonius
wrong as far as his usefulness, there is a great deal in the Twelve Caesars
that is quite obviously historical nonsense, and he clearly cants his opinions
in the direction of some (Octavian, Titus, Vespasian) while emphasizing the
most grotesque of the most ogre-like (Caligula, Nero). What we DO get from
him is some genuine psychological insight as well as a long and considered
discussion on the (very much then current) topic of what kind of leader is
the best one.
Next time I want to read a book about psychopaths I'll check out the one
you linked to. But my understanding is that a mild/minor psychopath is what
we refer to with the less than scientific term of 'asshole' and leave it
at that. And yes, if 4% of the population are psychopaths then there are
12 million of them kicking around the USA. That's a little longer than a
1 in 20 shot, so most of them must stay out of the serial killing/ritual
torturing business.
As for the personality type that is attracted to political power, I still
go to the classics, despite their lack of formal training at modern US universities.
TCB
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>He didn't have the tools to understand the personality
>defects of the Cesears,though as a historical source
>he is invaluable and allows us to support the very point
>you make.
>
>Hare has a rather startling thesis in "Without Conscience".
>that asserts that there are shades of socio/psychopathology
>beyond the sane/insane paradigm. Hare believes that there
>are millions of moderate to mild sociopaths and psychopaths
>in our society. In the case of sociopaths in particular, their
>narcissism and lack of conscience lead me to believe that
>they are particularly attracted to visible, powerful, and
>leadership positions. This thesis is mine, not Hare's and
>I may write on it. It seems unavoidable given his assertions.
>If you cannot think of a clear example of consistent and
>methodical use of conscience in presidents in our lifetimes,
>and I cannot (despite the fact that there are a few singular
>examples, you still must remember that even Scott Petersen
>could cry on demand if he thought it would get him a reward)
>then I suspect that our image-driven media and the sheer
>size of our population, combined with the enormous power
>of the US Presidency,has indeed filled the office with the
>conscience-free in recent decades.
>
>I don't see how to change it, regardless of what
>paradigm we use to understand it.
>
>At any rate, you have badly misunderstood Hare. Start with
>"Without Conscience". You will recognize many people
>you have dealt with. With the music biz in particular, the
>mild to moderate sociopath is the standard-issue personality.
>
>!
>
>
>DC
>
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>Um, Don, you were talking about politicians? Yes? Not workplace shooters?
>>So again, I suggest Suetonius, but you can take it or leave it. I've read
>>it already
>>
>>TCB
>>
>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Read up on your Suetonius, Don, that's the underlying theme of 'The Twelve
>>>>Caesars.'
>>>>
>>>>TCB
>>>
>>>
>>>I think Bob Hare is a lot closer...
>>>
>>>
>>>http://www.hare.org/
>>>
>>>
>>>DC
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: Ron Paul Video [message #91463 is a reply to message #91462] |
Mon, 15 October 2007 13:35 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
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"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>Suetonius lacked the tools to understand personality defects??? That's like
>saying Greek sculptors lacked the ability to understand art because they
>couldn't attend RISD. That's insane.
Actually, it very much like saying Greek sculptors lacked the
tools in predict computer art. As with Suetonius, we can do
some rewarding guesswork, of course.
>Some of the tools we use to analyze
>personality were built into us when we were still chimps.
We were never chimps. The chimp line is a dead end with no
connection to humans, despite them being a close DNA match.
To claim so is to advocate a hopeful and orthodox,
but sadly ignorant Darwinism in the face of the fossil record.
>What we DO get from
>him is some genuine psychological insight as well as a long and considered
>discussion on the (very much then current) topic of what kind of leader
is
>the best one.
Based upon our perspective. But, given our perspective, he
would have described them differently.
>Next time I want to read a book about psychopaths I'll check out the one
>you linked to. But my understanding is that a mild/minor psychopath is what
>we refer to with the less than scientific term of 'asshole' and leave it
>at that.
Ah, but many would call it other things. Hare's brilliance is
opening one's eyes to a systematic look at asshole-ness as
pathology. There are other perspectives too, but they involve
subjects that atheists find discomfiting. (Hare does not
raise moral issues BTW)
>And yes, if 4% of the population are psychopaths then there are
>12 million of them kicking around the USA. That's a little longer than a
>1 in 20 shot, so most of them must stay out of the serial killing/ritual
>torturing business.
Wrong. read Hare.
>As for the personality type that is attracted to political power, I still
>go to the classics, despite their lack of formal training at modern US universities.
Well, we agree there.
DC
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| Re: Ron Paul Video [message #91464 is a reply to message #91463] |
Mon, 15 October 2007 14:21 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
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"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>Suetonius lacked the tools to understand personality defects??? That's
like
>>saying Greek sculptors lacked the ability to understand art because they
>>couldn't attend RISD. That's insane.
>
>
>Actually, it very much like saying Greek sculptors lacked the
>tools in predict computer art. As with Suetonius, we can do
>some rewarding guesswork, of course.
I'll skip the stuff about chimps, but your analogy is simply wrong. You said
Suetonius lacked the tools to understand the defects in his subjects. That's
nothing like Greek sculptors not being able to predict computer art. The
ability to create art is something that all cultures in history have had,
they didn't need anything other than themselves to do it. Same goes for personality,
it might not use the technical language of modern psychology but from Montaigne
to Aquinas to Suetonius all the way back to Sophocles and Homer and those
predating even them people have been able to understand personality flaws.
Can I understand Plato in exactly the same way a third century BC Athenian
did? Of course not. But to claim that this robs me of any chance of gathering
something from his writing, and that he can't possibly have the tools to
understand personality defects because he was denied the opportunity to read
Hare, that is reductivist solipsism dressed in its most jarring, garish vestments.
TCB
>>Some of the tools we use to analyze
>>personality were built into us when we were still chimps.
>
>We were never chimps. The chimp line is a dead end with no
>connection to humans, despite them being a close DNA match.
>To claim so is to advocate a hopeful and orthodox,
>but sadly ignorant Darwinism in the face of the fossil record.
>
>
>>What we DO get from
>>him is some genuine psychological insight as well as a long and considered
>>discussion on the (very much then current) topic of what kind of leader
>is
>>the best one.
>
>Based upon our perspective. But, given our perspective, he
>would have described them differently.
>
>
>>Next time I want to read a book about psychopaths I'll check out the one
>>you linked to. But my understanding is that a mild/minor psychopath is
what
>>we refer to with the less than scientific term of 'asshole' and leave it
>>at that.
>
>
>Ah, but many would call it other things. Hare's brilliance is
>opening one's eyes to a systematic look at asshole-ness as
>pathology. There are other perspectives too, but they involve
>subjects that atheists find discomfiting. (Hare does not
>raise moral issues BTW)
>
>
>>And yes, if 4% of the population are psychopaths then there are
>>12 million of them kicking around the USA. That's a little longer than
a
>>1 in 20 shot, so most of them must stay out of the serial killing/ritual
>>torturing business.
>
>Wrong. read Hare.
>
>
>>As for the personality type that is attracted to political power, I still
>>go to the classics, despite their lack of formal training at modern US
universities.
>
>Well, we agree there.
>
>DC
>
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| Re: Ron Paul Video [message #91470 is a reply to message #91468] |
Mon, 15 October 2007 15:42 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
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But why? You summarized the issue so well in a couple of
sentences. They are so succinct and elegant, that they
almost represent proof that PoMo is dead!
<grin>
DC
assuming of course that the text has any meaning in itself...
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>Nope, but apparently someone had his text cutting shears handy to be sure
>he didn't have to answer my argument!
>
>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>
>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Can I understand Plato in exactly the same way a third century BC Athenian
>>>did? Of course not.
>>
>>Well, there it is, isn't it? It works the other way 'round too.
>>
>>
>>>But to claim that this robs me of any chance of gathering
>>>something from his writing, and that he can't possibly have the tools
to
>>>understand personality defects because he was denied the opportunity to
>>read
>>>Hare, that is reductivist solipsism dressed in its most jarring, garish
>>vestments.
>>
>>Ahhh, discount sale at the strawman shop today, eh?
>>
>>DC
>>
>
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