Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Alright, all you Metalheads, here's a coupla trax for ya
| Alright, all you Metalheads, here's a coupla trax for ya [message #68922] |
Sat, 03 June 2006 21:23  |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
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These guys are calling these "final mixes", but I'm going to see
if I can get the to make a few tweaks. We're leaving 2-bus
compression off until Mastering, so the levels are prolly a
little on the low side... gonna send 4 stereo stems to
Mastering, so they'll most likely compress each stem separately.
Recording notes are posted below, for those that may be
interested.
Anyway, the band said "post 'em freely", so enjoy!
http://saqqararecords.com/images/BitchLiberteFinalMixMP3.mp3
http://saqqararecords.com/images/WhatThisFinalMixMP3.mp3
Guitars were kinda your typical numetal setup - EMG humbuckers
through Mesa triple rectifier heads, one guy had a Mesa cab
with Celestions & the other guys used an older Marshall cab,
also with Celestions, but the Mesa cab sounded as if the
speakers had a bit tighter cones.
*Signal chain for the guy with the Marshall cab (lead parts) was
2x Audix i5's through a Focusrite Red 8; same mics, but each
mic on a different speaker, as the two bottom speakers had
slightly different characteristics from one another.
*Signal Chain for the rhythm guitarist was an Audix i5 and a
BLUE Ball, through Grace101 mic pre's.
Drums were a combination of e-kit & live mics. Kick, snare &
toms were all e-kit. We also recorded the MIDI output so we
could regenerate the sounds on separate tracks for more
flexibility during mixdown. Snare & Tom samples were from the
Roland TD-20 brain, Kick was from my Fantom. The only exception
to this was the "industrial kit" sound at the start & end
of "What This", which was all from the TD-20.
*Three cymbals were live & three were e-kit cymbals. Hi-Hats
were live (we ended up using the hi-hat e-pad, though, anyway...
moved it over on the other side of the kit for an extra tom pad.
*OH mics were TLM-103's and the Hi-Hat mic was an Earthworks
TC-30, all through a Focusrite ISA 428, with impedances on
the "ISA-110" setting.
Bass was direct through a Carvin head which had an XLR line-
level out... you may remember my posts about this issue - the
guys liked the sound at first, but after we'd recorded
everything I was able to point out that it was a bit too
indistinct, and we ended up reamping it through the Mesa
Head/Cab combination on the cleanest possible settings, and
also taking a line out into a Sansamp Bass module & retracking
that signal on a separate track. Re-amping was handled by a
TLM-103 - since I needed a mic that would emphasize the highs
& definition, but still had excellent low-end extension - and
run through a Neve Portico preamp. What you're hearing is a
combination of the re-amp'ed track & the Sans-amped track,
pretty much in equal proportion, with absolutely zero of the
original track involved.
Vocals on the softer sections (like the verses in "What This")
were tracked with the "Claytor-67" through a Chandler TG2
preamp. A TLM-103 through the Neve Portico was used on the
harder sections of that song. The -103 through an ISA 428 was
used on all the parts on "Bitch Liberte".
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| Re: Alright, all you Metalheads, here's a coupla trax for ya [message #68923 is a reply to message #68922] |
Sat, 03 June 2006 23:39  |
Sarah
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2007
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Senior Member |
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Hey,
Sounds good. The ending of that second one is pretty cool. And you
actually used amplifiers and microphones on the guitars. :)
Sarah
www.sarahtonin.com/wayward.htm
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:44826027@linux...
>
> These guys are calling these "final mixes", but I'm going to see
> if I can get the to make a few tweaks. We're leaving 2-bus
> compression off until Mastering, so the levels are prolly a
> little on the low side... gonna send 4 stereo stems to
> Mastering, so they'll most likely compress each stem separately.
> Recording notes are posted below, for those that may be
> interested.
> Anyway, the band said "post 'em freely", so enjoy!
>
> http://saqqararecords.com/images/BitchLiberteFinalMixMP3.mp3
>
> http://saqqararecords.com/images/WhatThisFinalMixMP3.mp3
>
>
> Guitars were kinda your typical numetal setup - EMG humbuckers
> through Mesa triple rectifier heads, one guy had a Mesa cab
> with Celestions & the other guys used an older Marshall cab,
> also with Celestions, but the Mesa cab sounded as if the
> speakers had a bit tighter cones.
> *Signal chain for the guy with the Marshall cab (lead parts) was
> 2x Audix i5's through a Focusrite Red 8; same mics, but each
> mic on a different speaker, as the two bottom speakers had
> slightly different characteristics from one another.
> *Signal Chain for the rhythm guitarist was an Audix i5 and a
> BLUE Ball, through Grace101 mic pre's.
>
> Drums were a combination of e-kit & live mics. Kick, snare &
> toms were all e-kit. We also recorded the MIDI output so we
> could regenerate the sounds on separate tracks for more
> flexibility during mixdown. Snare & Tom samples were from the
> Roland TD-20 brain, Kick was from my Fantom. The only exception
> to this was the "industrial kit" sound at the start & end
> of "What This", which was all from the TD-20.
> *Three cymbals were live & three were e-kit cymbals. Hi-Hats
> were live (we ended up using the hi-hat e-pad, though, anyway...
> moved it over on the other side of the kit for an extra tom pad.
> *OH mics were TLM-103's and the Hi-Hat mic was an Earthworks
> TC-30, all through a Focusrite ISA 428, with impedances on
> the "ISA-110" setting.
>
> Bass was direct through a Carvin head which had an XLR line-
> level out... you may remember my posts about this issue - the
> guys liked the sound at first, but after we'd recorded
> everything I was able to point out that it was a bit too
> indistinct, and we ended up reamping it through the Mesa
> Head/Cab combination on the cleanest possible settings, and
> also taking a line out into a Sansamp Bass module & retracking
> that signal on a separate track. Re-amping was handled by a
> TLM-103 - since I needed a mic that would emphasize the highs
> & definition, but still had excellent low-end extension - and
> run through a Neve Portico preamp. What you're hearing is a
> combination of the re-amp'ed track & the Sans-amped track,
> pretty much in equal proportion, with absolutely zero of the
> original track involved.
>
> Vocals on the softer sections (like the verses in "What This")
> were tracked with the "Claytor-67" through a Chandler TG2
> preamp. A TLM-103 through the Neve Portico was used on the
> harder sections of that song. The -103 through an ISA 428 was
> used on all the parts on "Bitch Liberte".
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Re: Alright, all you Metalheads, here's a coupla trax for ya [message #68929 is a reply to message #68923] |
Sun, 04 June 2006 08:13 |
Nil
Messages: 245
Registered: March 2007
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Senior Member |
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"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>Hey,
>
>Sounds good. The ending of that second one is pretty cool.
>And you actually used amplifiers and microphones on the
>guitars. :)
LOL! Yeah, but when the drummer says his kit is "crap", and
so are some of his cymbals, plus he'd just broken his
main crash the week before we were supposed to start and the
bass player doesn't even have a cabinet (they go direct through
his head into their PA live), then you kinda wing it & make some
adjustments.
I guess I'm not too concerned about being a "purist" with
regard to impressive micing of live instruments, especially if
the situation doesn't allow for it; I'm more concerned with
getting the artist an end result that they're over-the-top
happy with.
The first certainly gives a great deal of self-satisfaction,
no doubt about it, but the second sure gets you a lot of
referrals.
Next up might be a hip-hop project if scheduling works out,
so chances are there won't be but ONE mic involved in that
one! lol
Neil
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| Re: Alright, all you Metalheads, here's a coupla trax for ya [message #68930 is a reply to message #68929] |
Sun, 04 June 2006 08:30 |
Don Nafe
Messages: 1206
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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Hey Neil
My only comment is in the first tune the vocal phrasing seems out of time
with the drums (or rhythm tracks) in certain spots which makes the groove
jerky if you know what I mean.
Other than that sounds okay to me although I'm not familiar enough with the
genre to make a comment on the mix
Don
"Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:4482f8b5$1@linux...
>
> "Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>Hey,
>>
>>Sounds good. The ending of that second one is pretty cool.
>>And you actually used amplifiers and microphones on the
>>guitars. :)
>
> LOL! Yeah, but when the drummer says his kit is "crap", and
> so are some of his cymbals, plus he'd just broken his
> main crash the week before we were supposed to start and the
> bass player doesn't even have a cabinet (they go direct through
> his head into their PA live), then you kinda wing it & make some
> adjustments.
>
> I guess I'm not too concerned about being a "purist" with
> regard to impressive micing of live instruments, especially if
> the situation doesn't allow for it; I'm more concerned with
> getting the artist an end result that they're over-the-top
> happy with.
> The first certainly gives a great deal of self-satisfaction,
> no doubt about it, but the second sure gets you a lot of
> referrals.
>
> Next up might be a hip-hop project if scheduling works out,
> so chances are there won't be but ONE mic involved in that
> one! lol
>
> Neil
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| Re: Alright, all you Metalheads, here's a coupla trax for ya [message #68932 is a reply to message #68929] |
Sun, 04 June 2006 08:33 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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I checked out the second one, the drummer's right. Seems like he could
have chosen more convincing sounds (you sure that wasn't a TD10?), but
since the MIDI tracks are available drum sample replacement should be no
prob. Or maybe he likes those sounds, who knows. As long as the client
is happy.
Guitars sound good.
Cheers,
-Jamie
http://www.JamieKrutz.com
Neil wrote:
> "Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>> Hey,
>>
>> Sounds good. The ending of that second one is pretty cool.
>> And you actually used amplifiers and microphones on the
>> guitars. :)
>
> LOL! Yeah, but when the drummer says his kit is "crap", and
> so are some of his cymbals, plus he'd just broken his
> main crash the week before we were supposed to start and the
> bass player doesn't even have a cabinet (they go direct through
> his head into their PA live), then you kinda wing it & make some
> adjustments.
>
> I guess I'm not too concerned about being a "purist" with
> regard to impressive micing of live instruments, especially if
> the situation doesn't allow for it; I'm more concerned with
> getting the artist an end result that they're over-the-top
> happy with.
> The first certainly gives a great deal of self-satisfaction,
> no doubt about it, but the second sure gets you a lot of
> referrals.
>
> Next up might be a hip-hop project if scheduling works out,
> so chances are there won't be but ONE mic involved in that
> one! lol
>
> Neil
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| Re: Alright, all you Metalheads, here's a coupla trax for ya [message #68944 is a reply to message #68932] |
Sun, 04 June 2006 10:44 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
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Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>
>I checked out the second one, the drummer's right. Seems like he could
>have chosen more convincing sounds (you sure that wasn't a TD10?), but
>since the MIDI tracks are available drum sample replacement should be no
>prob. Or maybe he likes those sounds, who knows. As long as the client
>is happy.
Yeah, they're very happy. Like I said, I've got a couple
of suggestions that I think might make them even happier, but
I'm certainly not gonna push it. These guys don't care if
something sounds real or not real or from outer space; they
just want it to sound like they want it to sound... you should
hear the third song (which I'll post once we get it in the
ballpark - it's kinda interesting); it's got a sample from a
movie, a sample from "Aqualung", two sections with some
effected white noise underneath a spooky narrative of parts of
a Robert Frost poem... I've worked with a couple of bands like
this (meaning bands that are kinda into "weird") in the past,
and I've found that you pretty much have to throw convention
out the window, because they've got a certain vision as to how
they want the *whole thing* to come across, as opposed to
the: "we need to make my guitars sound totally rad", and "dude,
my drums have to sound HUGE!", approach.
So, in situations like this band, I'll make suggestions & let
them hear some different options, but I never really push the
issue except if something is really bothering me or if I find
it grating.
For example, I'm going to try one more time to see if they'll
be amenable to dropping the vocal level in the harder sections
of "What This", because I think it's a bit too hot, and also
could use just a touch of ambience - even something as small as
a closet... or a shoebox; it's utterly too dry in those
sections, IMO; so maybe after listening to it for a couple of
days, they'll agree to it, but if they're reluctant, I'll leave
the issue alone. There's no way I'm going to have them saying
later: "Damn, I wish we hadn't let Neil talk us into that".
So, even though you don't get to play "producer" in these kinds
of sessions, I find they can be fun... it's a challenge to help
them come up with "wierd". LOL Like the e-bow part on "Bitch
Liberte" - that was my idea... Danny (the lead guitarist) had a
similar, picked, riff that he wanted to put there, and it was
coming across "ok", then I noticed that the other guitarist had
an E-Bow sitting in his goodie bag, so I said: "Hey why don't
you try that part with the E-bow?", so he modified the riff a
bit so he could do it on the e-bow, and they all LOVED it.
Same thing with the solo on that song... he had one more or
less worked out, but when he laid it down & listened back, he
wasn't too thrilled, but wasn't sure what he wanted to do to
change it, so I copied pasted some sections of it in a
different order, flipped one part around in reverse (the little
bit right at 2:46), and bingo! Just weird enough! lol
Stuff like the subtle little inhale/exhale right before the
quiet part in "What This" took the singer several attempts at
the mic, plus a long crossfaded edit, to get just the way they
wanted it, and doing ten or twelve takes of feedback just to
get the right feel might bother some people, but I think it's
kinda fun, and just another part of the process for this kind
of music. These guys are meticulous in an interesting sort of
way... little noises that other artists might want edited out,
these guys want left in sometimes, a pitch issue on a vocal
might be "ok" in one section ("No, no, don't fix it... leave
it - it sounds cool there!"), but "not OK" in others ("Lemme do
another take on that." "That's not very far off, want to see if
Auto-Tune will take care of it?", "No, not that one, lemme do
it again"). So, it's different, and I think some recordists
might find it frustrating, but I find it interesting.
Neil
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| Re: Alright, all you Metalheads, here's a coupla trax for ya [message #68952 is a reply to message #68944] |
Sun, 04 June 2006 16:55 |
Sarah
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2007
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Senior Member |
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Neil,
You make me so glad I'm not recording bands anymore. I'm glad you enjoy
it, but what I remember most is how sore my tongue was from constantly
biting it!
S
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:44831c10$1@linux...
>
> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>
>>I checked out the second one, the drummer's right. Seems like he could
>>have chosen more convincing sounds (you sure that wasn't a TD10?), but
>>since the MIDI tracks are available drum sample replacement should be no
>
>>prob. Or maybe he likes those sounds, who knows. As long as the client
>>is happy.
>
> Yeah, they're very happy. Like I said, I've got a couple
> of suggestions that I think might make them even happier, but
> I'm certainly not gonna push it. These guys don't care if
> something sounds real or not real or from outer space; they
> just want it to sound like they want it to sound... you should
> hear the third song (which I'll post once we get it in the
> ballpark - it's kinda interesting); it's got a sample from a
> movie, a sample from "Aqualung", two sections with some
> effected white noise underneath a spooky narrative of parts of
> a Robert Frost poem... I've worked with a couple of bands like
> this (meaning bands that are kinda into "weird") in the past,
> and I've found that you pretty much have to throw convention
> out the window, because they've got a certain vision as to how
> they want the *whole thing* to come across, as opposed to
> the: "we need to make my guitars sound totally rad", and "dude,
> my drums have to sound HUGE!", approach.
>
> So, in situations like this band, I'll make suggestions & let
> them hear some different options, but I never really push the
> issue except if something is really bothering me or if I find
> it grating.
>
> For example, I'm going to try one more time to see if they'll
> be amenable to dropping the vocal level in the harder sections
> of "What This", because I think it's a bit too hot, and also
> could use just a touch of ambience - even something as small as
> a closet... or a shoebox; it's utterly too dry in those
> sections, IMO; so maybe after listening to it for a couple of
> days, they'll agree to it, but if they're reluctant, I'll leave
> the issue alone. There's no way I'm going to have them saying
> later: "Damn, I wish we hadn't let Neil talk us into that".
>
> So, even though you don't get to play "producer" in these kinds
> of sessions, I find they can be fun... it's a challenge to help
> them come up with "wierd". LOL Like the e-bow part on "Bitch
> Liberte" - that was my idea... Danny (the lead guitarist) had a
> similar, picked, riff that he wanted to put there, and it was
> coming across "ok", then I noticed that the other guitarist had
> an E-Bow sitting in his goodie bag, so I said: "Hey why don't
> you try that part with the E-bow?", so he modified the riff a
> bit so he could do it on the e-bow, and they all LOVED it.
> Same thing with the solo on that song... he had one more or
> less worked out, but when he laid it down & listened back, he
> wasn't too thrilled, but wasn't sure what he wanted to do to
> change it, so I copied pasted some sections of it in a
> different order, flipped one part around in reverse (the little
> bit right at 2:46), and bingo! Just weird enough! lol
>
> Stuff like the subtle little inhale/exhale right before the
> quiet part in "What This" took the singer several attempts at
> the mic, plus a long crossfaded edit, to get just the way they
> wanted it, and doing ten or twelve takes of feedback just to
> get the right feel might bother some people, but I think it's
> kinda fun, and just another part of the process for this kind
> of music. These guys are meticulous in an interesting sort of
> way... little noises that other artists might want edited out,
> these guys want left in sometimes, a pitch issue on a vocal
> might be "ok" in one section ("No, no, don't fix it... leave
> it - it sounds cool there!"), but "not OK" in others ("Lemme do
> another take on that." "That's not very far off, want to see if
> Auto-Tune will take care of it?", "No, not that one, lemme do
> it again"). So, it's different, and I think some recordists
> might find it frustrating, but I find it interesting.
>
> Neil
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| Re: Alright, all you Metalheads, here's a coupla trax for ya [message #68955 is a reply to message #68944] |
Sun, 04 June 2006 17:53 |
Don Nafe
Messages: 1206
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
|
|
Sounds like you're really enjoying yourself.
DOn
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:44831c10$1@linux...
>
> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>
>>I checked out the second one, the drummer's right. Seems like he could
>>have chosen more convincing sounds (you sure that wasn't a TD10?), but
>>since the MIDI tracks are available drum sample replacement should be no
>
>>prob. Or maybe he likes those sounds, who knows. As long as the client
>>is happy.
>
> Yeah, they're very happy. Like I said, I've got a couple
> of suggestions that I think might make them even happier, but
> I'm certainly not gonna push it. These guys don't care if
> something sounds real or not real or from outer space; they
> just want it to sound like they want it to sound... you should
> hear the third song (which I'll post once we get it in the
> ballpark - it's kinda interesting); it's got a sample from a
> movie, a sample from "Aqualung", two sections with some
> effected white noise underneath a spooky narrative of parts of
> a Robert Frost poem... I've worked with a couple of bands like
> this (meaning bands that are kinda into "weird") in the past,
> and I've found that you pretty much have to throw convention
> out the window, because they've got a certain vision as to how
> they want the *whole thing* to come across, as opposed to
> the: "we need to make my guitars sound totally rad", and "dude,
> my drums have to sound HUGE!", approach.
>
> So, in situations like this band, I'll make suggestions & let
> them hear some different options, but I never really push the
> issue except if something is really bothering me or if I find
> it grating.
>
> For example, I'm going to try one more time to see if they'll
> be amenable to dropping the vocal level in the harder sections
> of "What This", because I think it's a bit too hot, and also
> could use just a touch of ambience - even something as small as
> a closet... or a shoebox; it's utterly too dry in those
> sections, IMO; so maybe after listening to it for a couple of
> days, they'll agree to it, but if they're reluctant, I'll leave
> the issue alone. There's no way I'm going to have them saying
> later: "Damn, I wish we hadn't let Neil talk us into that".
>
> So, even though you don't get to play "producer" in these kinds
> of sessions, I find they can be fun... it's a challenge to help
> them come up with "wierd". LOL Like the e-bow part on "Bitch
> Liberte" - that was my idea... Danny (the lead guitarist) had a
> similar, picked, riff that he wanted to put there, and it was
> coming across "ok", then I noticed that the other guitarist had
> an E-Bow sitting in his goodie bag, so I said: "Hey why don't
> you try that part with the E-bow?", so he modified the riff a
> bit so he could do it on the e-bow, and they all LOVED it.
> Same thing with the solo on that song... he had one more or
> less worked out, but when he laid it down & listened back, he
> wasn't too thrilled, but wasn't sure what he wanted to do to
> change it, so I copied pasted some sections of it in a
> different order, flipped one part around in reverse (the little
> bit right at 2:46), and bingo! Just weird enough! lol
>
> Stuff like the subtle little inhale/exhale right before the
> quiet part in "What This" took the singer several attempts at
> the mic, plus a long crossfaded edit, to get just the way they
> wanted it, and doing ten or twelve takes of feedback just to
> get the right feel might bother some people, but I think it's
> kinda fun, and just another part of the process for this kind
> of music. These guys are meticulous in an interesting sort of
> way... little noises that other artists might want edited out,
> these guys want left in sometimes, a pitch issue on a vocal
> might be "ok" in one section ("No, no, don't fix it... leave
> it - it sounds cool there!"), but "not OK" in others ("Lemme do
> another take on that." "That's not very far off, want to see if
> Auto-Tune will take care of it?", "No, not that one, lemme do
> it again"). So, it's different, and I think some recordists
> might find it frustrating, but I find it interesting.
>
> Neil
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| Re: Alright, all you Metalheads, here's a coupla trax for ya [message #69000 is a reply to message #68955] |
Tue, 06 June 2006 06:02 |
neil[1]
Messages: 164
Registered: October 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
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"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>Sounds like you're really enjoying yourself.
>
>DOn
Yeah, I am... and I've since decided to try a few tweaks on the
mixes on my own & e-mailed the band mp3 files of each of
the "tweaked" versions of these two plus the third cut (which I
didn't post here because I was still working on some of the
whacked-out effects they had in that one), and they liked the
new versions even better. I didn't even tell them what I did,
I just said: "Hey, check these slight variations out & see what
you think".
So, we've got some improvements on the mixes I posted, one of
which is a blending of a sample of my Premier Birch snare with
the snare sound they used from the TD-20, to fatten it up &
give it a little more body.
By the way, if anyone needs a cheap/free Drumagog-type thing,
I came across this application:
http://www.kvraudio.com/get/2155.html
I have an older version of D-gog, but hadn't reinstalled it
since my hard drive reformat, and since I'd noticed
the "Replacer" app, I figured I'd download it & try it just to
see how it worked... works great!
Neil
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| Re: Alright, all you Metalheads, here's a coupla trax for ya [message #69006 is a reply to message #69000] |
Tue, 06 June 2006 08:09 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Yikes, dude is not happy with Parcelforce is he.
AA
"Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:44857cc9$1@linux...
>
> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>>Sounds like you're really enjoying yourself.
>>
>>DOn
>
> Yeah, I am... and I've since decided to try a few tweaks on the
> mixes on my own & e-mailed the band mp3 files of each of
> the "tweaked" versions of these two plus the third cut (which I
> didn't post here because I was still working on some of the
> whacked-out effects they had in that one), and they liked the
> new versions even better. I didn't even tell them what I did,
> I just said: "Hey, check these slight variations out & see what
> you think".
>
> So, we've got some improvements on the mixes I posted, one of
> which is a blending of a sample of my Premier Birch snare with
> the snare sound they used from the TD-20, to fatten it up &
> give it a little more body.
>
> By the way, if anyone needs a cheap/free Drumagog-type thing,
> I came across this application:
>
> http://www.kvraudio.com/get/2155.html
>
> I have an older version of D-gog, but hadn't reinstalled it
> since my hard drive reformat, and since I'd noticed
> the "Replacer" app, I figured I'd download it & try it just to
> see how it worked... works great!
>
> Neil
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
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| Re: Alright, all you Metalheads, here's a coupla trax for ya [message #69180 is a reply to message #68944] |
Sun, 11 June 2006 09:47 |
Miguel Vigil [1]
Messages: 258
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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For example, I'm going to try one more time to see if they'll
be amenable to dropping the vocal level in the harder sections
of "What This", because I think it's a bit too hot, and also
could use just a touch of ambience - even something as small as
a closet... or a shoebox; it's utterly too dry in those
sections, IMO; so maybe after listening to it for a couple of
days, they'll agree to it, but if they're reluctant, I'll leave
the issue alone. There's no way I'm going to have them saying
later: "Damn, I wish we hadn't let Neil talk us into that".
for what it's not worth, I could hear this section more clear than the
first song's harder sections. But this is on the crappiest KLH book
shelf speakers fed by a crappier sony boom box from the cheap and
early 90's....
El Miguel
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:44831c10$1@linux...
>
> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
> >
> >I checked out the second one, the drummer's right. Seems like he could
> >have chosen more convincing sounds (you sure that wasn't a TD10?), but
> >since the MIDI tracks are available drum sample replacement should be no
>
> >prob. Or maybe he likes those sounds, who knows. As long as the client
> >is happy.
>
> Yeah, they're very happy. Like I said, I've got a couple
> of suggestions that I think might make them even happier, but
> I'm certainly not gonna push it. These guys don't care if
> something sounds real or not real or from outer space; they
> just want it to sound like they want it to sound... you should
> hear the third song (which I'll post once we get it in the
> ballpark - it's kinda interesting); it's got a sample from a
> movie, a sample from "Aqualung", two sections with some
> effected white noise underneath a spooky narrative of parts of
> a Robert Frost poem... I've worked with a couple of bands like
> this (meaning bands that are kinda into "weird") in the past,
> and I've found that you pretty much have to throw convention
> out the window, because they've got a certain vision as to how
> they want the *whole thing* to come across, as opposed to
> the: "we need to make my guitars sound totally rad", and "dude,
> my drums have to sound HUGE!", approach.
>
> So, in situations like this band, I'll make suggestions & let
> them hear some different options, but I never really push the
> issue except if something is really bothering me or if I find
> it grating.
>
> For example, I'm going to try one more time to see if they'll
> be amenable to dropping the vocal level in the harder sections
> of "What This", because I think it's a bit too hot, and also
> could use just a touch of ambience - even something as small as
> a closet... or a shoebox; it's utterly too dry in those
> sections, IMO; so maybe after listening to it for a couple of
> days, they'll agree to it, but if they're reluctant, I'll leave
> the issue alone. There's no way I'm going to have them saying
> later: "Damn, I wish we hadn't let Neil talk us into that".
>
> So, even though you don't get to play "producer" in these kinds
> of sessions, I find they can be fun... it's a challenge to help
> them come up with "wierd". LOL Like the e-bow part on "Bitch
> Liberte" - that was my idea... Danny (the lead guitarist) had a
> similar, picked, riff that he wanted to put there, and it was
> coming across "ok", then I noticed that the other guitarist had
> an E-Bow sitting in his goodie bag, so I said: "Hey why don't
> you try that part with the E-bow?", so he modified the riff a
> bit so he could do it on the e-bow, and they all LOVED it.
> Same thing with the solo on that song... he had one more or
> less worked out, but when he laid it down & listened back, he
> wasn't too thrilled, but wasn't sure what he wanted to do to
> change it, so I copied pasted some sections of it in a
> different order, flipped one part around in reverse (the little
> bit right at 2:46), and bingo! Just weird enough! lol
>
> Stuff like the subtle little inhale/exhale right before the
> quiet part in "What This" took the singer several attempts at
> the mic, plus a long crossfaded edit, to get just the way they
> wanted it, and doing ten or twelve takes of feedback just to
> get the right feel might bother some people, but I think it's
> kinda fun, and just another part of the process for this kind
> of music. These guys are meticulous in an interesting sort of
> way... little noises that other artists might want edited out,
> these guys want left in sometimes, a pitch issue on a vocal
> might be "ok" in one section ("No, no, don't fix it... leave
> it - it sounds cool there!"), but "not OK" in others ("Lemme do
> another take on that." "That's not very far off, want to see if
> Auto-Tune will take care of it?", "No, not that one, lemme do
> it again"). So, it's different, and I think some recordists
> might find it frustrating, but I find it interesting.
>
> Neil
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