Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community
| A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99409] |
Thu, 03 July 2008 12:58  |
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Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate posts.
Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need to
support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need for
hard info - things like current community size and composition etc. If we
want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better know
who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball" guesstimates
weren't doing us much justice.
Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine at
research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of that
basic research with you all.
Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several times
before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now got a
fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community. It
stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and rising, so
if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently come
to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users who
don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
users.
Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters - itıs
derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently active
PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months, and
is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that info
broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability to
open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format), other
developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those who
still have and use PARIS hardware.
To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and censuses;
theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but theyıre
unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an arbitrary
length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different ways
so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in that
number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening months
would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we might
once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me, but as a
"minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally come
to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not interested
in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
starting from here and going forward.
So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real users
is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven efforts
for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology, and
some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful work
done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
Hope this is of interest!
- Kerry
"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
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| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99411 is a reply to message #99409] |
Thu, 03 July 2008 19:44  |
Ted Gerber
Messages: 705
Registered: January 2009
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Senior Member |
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Thanks Kerry-
I'm a little slower than usual tonight, can you define the
difference between "real users" and "users worldwide"?
400 does in fact seem like an enticing number for developers.
Can you give some examples of "some aficionado groups for other pieces of
discontinued technology" and the progress made
in those settings?
Thanks again,
Ted
Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
>yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate posts.
>
>Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need to
>support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
>certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need for
>hard info - things like current community size and composition etc. If we
>want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better know
>who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball" guesstimates
>weren't doing us much justice.
>
>Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine at
>research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
>supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of that
>basic research with you all.
>
>Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several times
>before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now got
a
>fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community. It
>stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and rising,
so
>if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently come
>to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users who
>don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
>users.
>
>Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
>
>Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters - itıs
>derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently active
>PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months, and
>is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that info
>broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability to
>open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
>ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format), other
>developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those who
>still have and use PARIS hardware.
>
>To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and censuses;
>theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but theyıre
>unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an arbitrary
>length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
>timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
>posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
>questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different ways
>so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
>labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in that
>number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening months
>would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
>
>Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we might
>once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me, but as
a
>"minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally
come
>to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not interested
>in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
>starting from here and going forward.
>
>So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real users
>is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven efforts
>for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
>than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology,
and
>some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful work
>done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
>developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
>
>Hope this is of interest!
>
>- Kerry
>
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| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99412 is a reply to message #99409] |
Thu, 03 July 2008 20:27 |
Mike Bloomer
Messages: 44
Registered: July 2008
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Member |
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better make that 401. I've been away for a while.....
MB
Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
>yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate posts.
>
>Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need to
>support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
>certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need for
>hard info - things like current community size and composition etc. If we
>want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better know
>who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball" guesstimates
>weren't doing us much justice.
>
>Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine at
>research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
>supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of that
>basic research with you all.
>
>Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several times
>before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now got
a
>fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community. It
>stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and rising,
so
>if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently come
>to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users who
>don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
>users.
>
>Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
>
>Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters - itıs
>derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently active
>PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months, and
>is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that info
>broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability to
>open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
>ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format), other
>developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those who
>still have and use PARIS hardware.
>
>To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and censuses;
>theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but theyıre
>unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an arbitrary
>length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
>timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
>posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
>questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different ways
>so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
>labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in that
>number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening months
>would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
>
>Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we might
>once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me, but as
a
>"minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally
come
>to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not interested
>in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
>starting from here and going forward.
>
>So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real users
>is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven efforts
>for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
>than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology,
and
>some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful work
>done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
>developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
>
>Hope this is of interest!
>
>- Kerry
>
Every moment you spend watching TV is a moment you have surrendered your free will
King Cake Band
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| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99414 is a reply to message #99409] |
Thu, 03 July 2008 23:01 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
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Senior Member |
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In support of Kerry's findings, that is pretty much in line with sale
numbers from the Paris video, maybe even a little light from those numbers.
AA
"Kerry Galloway" <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote in message
news:C4927D67.B2A4%kg@kerrygalloway.com...
> Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
> yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate
> posts.
>
> Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need to
> support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
> certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need for
> hard info - things like current community size and composition etc. If we
> want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better know
> who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball" guesstimates
> weren't doing us much justice.
>
> Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine at
> research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
> supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of that
> basic research with you all.
>
> Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several
> times
> before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now got a
> fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community. It
> stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and rising,
> so
> if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently come
> to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users who
> don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
> users.
>
> Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
>
> Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters - itıs
> derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently
> active
> PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months, and
> is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that info
> broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability to
> open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
> ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format), other
> developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those who
> still have and use PARIS hardware.
>
> To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and
> censuses;
> theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but theyıre
> unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an arbitrary
> length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
> timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
> posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
> questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different ways
> so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
> labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in that
> number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening
> months
> would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
>
> Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we might
> once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me, but as
> a
> "minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally
> come
> to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not interested
> in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
> starting from here and going forward.
>
> So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real users
> is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven
> efforts
> for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
> than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology,
> and
> some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful work
> done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
> developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
>
> Hope this is of interest!
>
> - Kerry
>
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| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99420 is a reply to message #99409] |
Fri, 04 July 2008 07:34 |
Rod Lincoln
Messages: 883
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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Yeah, it could be a litle bigger. I know of two Paris users I'm in regular
contact with, that to my knowledge, have never posted on this sight. So I'm
thinking there might be a few more of us that post here that might have similar
contacts that just don't post. Probably not a large number, but then again,
maybe more than you might think. For example, if ther are 400 users world
wide, and 100 of them have 2 people they know of (like me) that have never
posted, that's 200 more users right there.
Or not, I don't know. just thinking.
Rod
Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
>yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate posts.
>
>Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need to
>support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
>certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need for
>hard info - things like current community size and composition etc. If we
>want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better know
>who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball" guesstimates
>weren't doing us much justice.
>
>Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine at
>research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
>supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of that
>basic research with you all.
>
>Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several times
>before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now got
a
>fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community. It
>stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and rising,
so
>if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently come
>to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users who
>don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
>users.
>
>Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
>
>Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters - itıs
>derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently active
>PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months, and
>is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that info
>broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability to
>open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
>ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format), other
>developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those who
>still have and use PARIS hardware.
>
>To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and censuses;
>theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but theyıre
>unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an arbitrary
>length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
>timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
>posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
>questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different ways
>so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
>labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in that
>number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening months
>would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
>
>Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we might
>once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me, but as
a
>"minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally
come
>to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not interested
>in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
>starting from here and going forward.
>
>So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real users
>is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven efforts
>for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
>than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology,
and
>some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful work
>done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
>developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
>
>Hope this is of interest!
>
>- Kerry
>
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| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99426 is a reply to message #99420] |
Fri, 04 July 2008 10:36 |
Kim W
Messages: 165
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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Spot on, Rod.
I know two guys that have never posted.
Hell, I built and configured their host comps for them.
One is a friend who is happily using my "spare parts",
(a mec with 8-in, a c-16 and two EDS's) as a stand alone system.
I also know *of* several other users, but not personally.
They're out there...
Kim
"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>Yeah, it could be a litle bigger. I know of two Paris users I'm in regular
>contact with, that to my knowledge, have never posted on this sight. So
I'm
>thinking there might be a few more of us that post here that might have
similar
>contacts that just don't post. Probably not a large number, but then again,
>maybe more than you might think. For example, if ther are 400 users world
>wide, and 100 of them have 2 people they know of (like me) that have never
>posted, that's 200 more users right there.
>Or not, I don't know. just thinking.
>Rod
>Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>>Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
>>yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate posts.
>>
>>Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need to
>>support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
>>certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need for
>>hard info - things like current community size and composition etc. If
we
>>want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better know
>>who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball" guesstimates
>>weren't doing us much justice.
>>
>>Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine at
>>research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
>>supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of that
>>basic research with you all.
>>
>>Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several
times
>>before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now got
>a
>>fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community. It
>>stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and rising,
>so
>>if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently come
>>to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users who
>>don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
>>users.
>>
>>Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
>>
>>Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters - itıs
>>derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently active
>>PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months,
and
>>is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that info
>>broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability
to
>>open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
>>ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format), other
>>developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those who
>>still have and use PARIS hardware.
>>
>>To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and censuses;
>>theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but theyıre
>>unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an arbitrary
>>length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
>>timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
>>posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
>>questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different ways
>>so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
>>labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in that
>>number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening months
>>would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
>>
>>Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we might
>>once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me, but
as
>a
>>"minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally
>come
>>to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not interested
>>in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
>>starting from here and going forward.
>>
>>So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real users
>>is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven efforts
>>for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
>>than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology,
>and
>>some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful work
>>done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
>>developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
>>
>>Hope this is of interest!
>>
>>- Kerry
>>
>
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| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99437 is a reply to message #99411] |
Sat, 05 July 2008 11:05 |
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Hi Ted
- maybe I phrased that poorly, I'm afraid I have something of a fever and am
not at my clearest. By 'real users' I meant 'current' users. By "a hard
floor of 125 real users" I meant to say we now have a solid idea the
*minimum* number of current PARIS users out there. 400 is what we're
estimating the true number actually is.
As far as examples of other pieces of discontinued technology, I'll write a
bit when I've got less mush brain.
- K
On 7/3/08 7:44 PM, in article 486d8e93$1@linux, "Ted Gerber"
<tedgerber@rogers.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks Kerry-
>
> I'm a little slower than usual tonight, can you define the
> difference between "real users" and "users worldwide"?
>
> 400 does in fact seem like an enticing number for developers.
> Can you give some examples of "some aficionado groups for other pieces of
> discontinued technology" and the progress made
> in those settings?
One example would be the Roland Vbass. That community has *perhaps* 20
members and averaged a post or two a week. I came across that community last
year when I bought a used Vbass and quickly discovered Roland never built an
editor/librarian for it. Someone did build one for the Roland VG8 and it
looked like it could be modified for the Vbass, but the developer was
uninterested in opening the source code. After months of chasing down and
researching, making unresponded-to emails etc, I got a response from the
developer and after a few exchanges on it he agreed to release the source
code.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Ted
>
>
> Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>> Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
>> yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate posts.
>>
>> Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need to
>> support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
>> certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need for
>> hard info - things like current community size and composition etc. If we
>> want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better know
>> who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball" guesstimates
>> weren't doing us much justice.
>>
>> Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine at
>> research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
>> supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of that
>> basic research with you all.
>>
>> Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several times
>> before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now got
> a
>> fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community. It
>> stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and rising,
> so
>> if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently come
>> to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users who
>> don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
>> users.
>>
>> Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
>>
>> Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters - itıs
>> derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently active
>> PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months, and
>> is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that info
>> broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability to
>> open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
>> ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format), other
>> developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those who
>> still have and use PARIS hardware.
>>
>> To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and censuses;
>> theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but theyıre
>> unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an arbitrary
>> length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
>> timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
>> posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
>> questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different ways
>> so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
>> labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in that
>> number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening months
>> would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
>>
>> Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we might
>> once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me, but as
> a
>> "minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally
> come
>> to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not interested
>> in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
>> starting from here and going forward.
>>
>> So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real users
>> is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven efforts
>> for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
>> than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology,
> and
>> some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful work
>> done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
>> developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
>>
>> Hope this is of interest!
>>
>> - Kerry
>>
>
"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
|
|
|
|
| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99459 is a reply to message #99420] |
Mon, 07 July 2008 18:00 |
Rich Lamanna
Messages: 316
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Rod and Kerry, I would concur on this too. I know of a small studio locally
here in upstate NY, who used Paris the last time I checked and I don't think
I've ever seen him post on the news group either.
Rich
"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:486e3508$1@linux...
>
> Yeah, it could be a litle bigger. I know of two Paris users I'm in regular
> contact with, that to my knowledge, have never posted on this sight. So
I'm
> thinking there might be a few more of us that post here that might have
similar
> contacts that just don't post. Probably not a large number, but then
again,
> maybe more than you might think. For example, if ther are 400 users world
> wide, and 100 of them have 2 people they know of (like me) that have never
> posted, that's 200 more users right there.
> Or not, I don't know. just thinking.
> Rod
> Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
> >Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
> >yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate
posts.
> >
> >Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need to
> >support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
> >certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need for
> >hard info - things like current community size and composition etc. If we
> >want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better know
> >who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball" guesstimates
> >weren't doing us much justice.
> >
> >Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine at
> >research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
> >supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of that
> >basic research with you all.
> >
> >Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several
times
> >before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now got
> a
> >fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community. It
> >stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and rising,
> so
> >if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently
come
> >to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users who
> >don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
> >users.
> >
> >Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
> >
> >Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters - itıs
> >derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently
active
> >PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months,
and
> >is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that info
> >broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability to
> >open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
> >ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format),
other
> >developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those who
> >still have and use PARIS hardware.
> >
> >To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and
censuses;
> >theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but theyıre
> >unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an arbitrary
> >length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
> >timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
> >posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
> >questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different
ways
> >so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
> >labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in that
> >number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening
months
> >would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
> >
> >Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we might
> >once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me, but as
> a
> >"minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally
> come
> >to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not
interested
> >in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
> >starting from here and going forward.
> >
> >So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real
users
> >is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven
efforts
> >for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
> >than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology,
> and
> >some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful work
> >done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
> >developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
> >
> >Hope this is of interest!
> >
> >- Kerry
> >
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99461 is a reply to message #99459] |
Tue, 08 July 2008 08:13 |
Tom Bruhl
Messages: 1368
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Two of my friends never post but use Paris.
Tom
"Rich Lamanna" <richard.lamanna@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:4872addb@linux...
> Rod and Kerry, I would concur on this too. I know of a small studio
> locally
> here in upstate NY, who used Paris the last time I checked and I don't
> think
> I've ever seen him post on the news group either.
>
> Rich
>
> "Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:486e3508$1@linux...
>>
>> Yeah, it could be a litle bigger. I know of two Paris users I'm in
>> regular
>> contact with, that to my knowledge, have never posted on this sight. So
> I'm
>> thinking there might be a few more of us that post here that might have
> similar
>> contacts that just don't post. Probably not a large number, but then
> again,
>> maybe more than you might think. For example, if ther are 400 users world
>> wide, and 100 of them have 2 people they know of (like me) that have
>> never
>> posted, that's 200 more users right there.
>> Or not, I don't know. just thinking.
>> Rod
>> Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>> >Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
>> >yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate
> posts.
>> >
>> >Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need to
>> >support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
>> >certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need for
>> >hard info - things like current community size and composition etc. If
>> >we
>> >want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better
>> >know
>> >who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball"
>> >guesstimates
>> >weren't doing us much justice.
>> >
>> >Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine at
>> >research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
>> >supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of that
>> >basic research with you all.
>> >
>> >Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several
> times
>> >before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now got
>> a
>> >fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community. It
>> >stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and
>> >rising,
>> so
>> >if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently
> come
>> >to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users
>> >who
>> >don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
>> >users.
>> >
>> >Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
>> >
>> >Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters - itıs
>> >derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently
> active
>> >PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months,
> and
>> >is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that
>> >info
>> >broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability
>> >to
>> >open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
>> >ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format),
> other
>> >developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those who
>> >still have and use PARIS hardware.
>> >
>> >To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and
> censuses;
>> >theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but
>> >theyıre
>> >unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an
>> >arbitrary
>> >length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
>> >timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
>> >posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
>> >questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different
> ways
>> >so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
>> >labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in that
>> >number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening
> months
>> >would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
>> >
>> >Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we
>> >might
>> >once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me, but
>> >as
>> a
>> >"minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally
>> come
>> >to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not
> interested
>> >in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
>> >starting from here and going forward.
>> >
>> >So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real
> users
>> >is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven
> efforts
>> >for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
>> >than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology,
>> and
>> >some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful
>> >work
>> >done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
>> >developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
>> >
>> >Hope this is of interest!
>> >
>> >- Kerry
>> >
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99462 is a reply to message #99461] |
Tue, 08 July 2008 09:58 |
|
|
This is a highly interesting pattern that crops up again and again - one
visible PARIS user here on the NG equals two more invisible ones outside.
The estimates previously made of overall PARIS users weren't made using that
ratio; they were derived by completely different means of guesstimation. As
Aaron has mentioned, the sales numbers for the PARIS video bear these
numbers out (they were a bit higher, but attrition since then would account
for that).
But this model does seem to be a pretty compelling one. Using that ratio,
125 identified users would give an additional 250 non-identified users,
which would add up to 375 overall - which would put us within a single-digit
margin of error of our overall estimate of 400.
I don't know much about statistics but that does seem to be a pretty
compelling symmetry.
To me, given the rapid advances and massive price drops of other DAWs, one
fascinating aspect here is how *little* attrition there has been. It really
does underscore how functional PARIS has always been, and precisely how far
ahead of its time it really was.
- Kerry
On 7/8/08 8:13 AM, in article 4873866e@linux, "Tom Bruhl"
<arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
> Two of my friends never post but use Paris.
> Tom
>
> "Rich Lamanna" <richard.lamanna@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:4872addb@linux...
>> Rod and Kerry, I would concur on this too. I know of a small studio
>> locally
>> here in upstate NY, who used Paris the last time I checked and I don't
>> think
>> I've ever seen him post on the news group either.
>>
>> Rich
>>
>> "Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:486e3508$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Yeah, it could be a litle bigger. I know of two Paris users I'm in
>>> regular
>>> contact with, that to my knowledge, have never posted on this sight. So
>> I'm
>>> thinking there might be a few more of us that post here that might have
>> similar
>>> contacts that just don't post. Probably not a large number, but then
>> again,
>>> maybe more than you might think. For example, if ther are 400 users world
>>> wide, and 100 of them have 2 people they know of (like me) that have
>>> never
>>> posted, that's 200 more users right there.
>>> Or not, I don't know. just thinking.
>>> Rod
>>> Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
>>>> yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate
>> posts.
>>>>
>>>> Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need to
>>>> support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
>>>> certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need for
>>>> hard info - things like current community size and composition etc. If
>>>> we
>>>> want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better
>>>> know
>>>> who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball"
>>>> guesstimates
>>>> weren't doing us much justice.
>>>>
>>>> Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine at
>>>> research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
>>>> supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of that
>>>> basic research with you all.
>>>>
>>>> Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several
>> times
>>>> before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now got
>>> a
>>>> fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community. It
>>>> stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and
>>>> rising,
>>> so
>>>> if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently
>> come
>>>> to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users
>>>> who
>>>> don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
>>>> users.
>>>>
>>>> Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
>>>>
>>>> Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters - itıs
>>>> derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently
>> active
>>>> PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months,
>> and
>>>> is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that
>>>> info
>>>> broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability
>>>> to
>>>> open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
>>>> ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format),
>> other
>>>> developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those who
>>>> still have and use PARIS hardware.
>>>>
>>>> To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and
>> censuses;
>>>> theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but
>>>> theyıre
>>>> unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an
>>>> arbitrary
>>>> length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
>>>> timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
>>>> posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
>>>> questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different
>> ways
>>>> so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
>>>> labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in that
>>>> number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening
>> months
>>>> would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
>>>>
>>>> Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we
>>>> might
>>>> once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me, but
>>>> as
>>> a
>>>> "minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally
>>> come
>>>> to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not
>> interested
>>>> in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
>>>> starting from here and going forward.
>>>>
>>>> So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real
>> users
>>>> is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven
>> efforts
>>>> for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
>>>> than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology,
>>> and
>>>> some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful
>>>> work
>>>> done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
>>>> developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this is of interest!
>>>>
>>>> - Kerry
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
|
|
|
|
| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99463 is a reply to message #99462] |
Tue, 08 July 2008 13:14 |
mike mullin[1]
Messages: 15
Registered: March 2008
Location: Ottawa
|
Junior Member |
|
|
Hello all,
I have posted here a few times but I know someone else
in town running a fulltime studio with Paris and he has never posted here
cheers,
Mike
Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>This is a highly interesting pattern that crops up again and again - one
>visible PARIS user here on the NG equals two more invisible ones outside.
>
>The estimates previously made of overall PARIS users weren't made using
that
>ratio; they were derived by completely different means of guesstimation.
As
>Aaron has mentioned, the sales numbers for the PARIS video bear these
>numbers out (they were a bit higher, but attrition since then would account
>for that).
>
>But this model does seem to be a pretty compelling one. Using that ratio,
>125 identified users would give an additional 250 non-identified users,
>which would add up to 375 overall - which would put us within a single-digit
>margin of error of our overall estimate of 400.
>
>I don't know much about statistics but that does seem to be a pretty
>compelling symmetry.
>
>To me, given the rapid advances and massive price drops of other DAWs, one
>fascinating aspect here is how *little* attrition there has been. It really
>does underscore how functional PARIS has always been, and precisely how
far
>ahead of its time it really was.
>
>- Kerry
>
>On 7/8/08 8:13 AM, in article 4873866e@linux, "Tom Bruhl"
><arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Two of my friends never post but use Paris.
>> Tom
>>
>> "Rich Lamanna" <richard.lamanna@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:4872addb@linux...
>>> Rod and Kerry, I would concur on this too. I know of a small studio
>>> locally
>>> here in upstate NY, who used Paris the last time I checked and I don't
>>> think
>>> I've ever seen him post on the news group either.
>>>
>>> Rich
>>>
>>> "Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:486e3508$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, it could be a litle bigger. I know of two Paris users I'm in
>>>> regular
>>>> contact with, that to my knowledge, have never posted on this sight.
So
>>> I'm
>>>> thinking there might be a few more of us that post here that might have
>>> similar
>>>> contacts that just don't post. Probably not a large number, but then
>>> again,
>>>> maybe more than you might think. For example, if ther are 400 users
world
>>>> wide, and 100 of them have 2 people they know of (like me) that have
>>>> never
>>>> posted, that's 200 more users right there.
>>>> Or not, I don't know. just thinking.
>>>> Rod
>>>> Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
>>>>> yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate
>>> posts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need
to
>>>>> support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
>>>>> certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need
for
>>>>> hard info - things like current community size and composition etc.
If
>>>>> we
>>>>> want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better
>>>>> know
>>>>> who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball"
>>>>> guesstimates
>>>>> weren't doing us much justice.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine
at
>>>>> research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
>>>>> supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of
that
>>>>> basic research with you all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several
>>> times
>>>>> before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now
got
>>>> a
>>>>> fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community.
It
>>>>> stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and
>>>>> rising,
>>>> so
>>>>> if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently
>>> come
>>>>> to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users
>>>>> who
>>>>> don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
>>>>> users.
>>>>>
>>>>> Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
>>>>>
>>>>> Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters -
itıs
>>>>> derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently
>>> active
>>>>> PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months,
>>> and
>>>>> is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that
>>>>> info
>>>>> broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability
>>>>> to
>>>>> open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
>>>>> ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format),
>>> other
>>>>> developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those
who
>>>>> still have and use PARIS hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>> To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and
>>> censuses;
>>>>> theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but
>>>>> theyıre
>>>>> unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an
>>>>> arbitrary
>>>>> length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
>>>>> timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
>>>>> posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
>>>>> questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different
>>> ways
>>>>> so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
>>>>> labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in
that
>>>>> number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening
>>> months
>>>>> would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
>>>>>
>>>>> Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we
>>>>> might
>>>>> once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me,
but
>>>>> as
>>>> a
>>>>> "minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally
>>>> come
>>>>> to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not
>>> interested
>>>>> in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
>>>>> starting from here and going forward.
>>>>>
>>>>> So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real
>>> users
>>>>> is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven
>>> efforts
>>>>> for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
>>>>> than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology,
>>>> and
>>>>> some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful
>>>>> work
>>>>> done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
>>>>> developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope this is of interest!
>>>>>
>>>>> - Kerry
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
|
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| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99543 is a reply to message #99412] |
Thu, 17 July 2008 18:02 |
Harry Latimer
Messages: 2
Registered: July 2008
Location: Annapolis, Maryland
|
Junior Member |
|
|
better make that 402. I've been away for a while too.....
Harry Latimer
Good Day Mix
"Mike Bloomer" <tubeguru2006@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:486d9892$1@linux...
>
> better make that 401. I've been away for a while.....
> MB
>
>
> Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>>Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
>>yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate
>>posts.
>>
>>Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need to
>>support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
>>certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need for
>>hard info - things like current community size and composition etc. If we
>>want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better know
>>who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball" guesstimates
>>weren't doing us much justice.
>>
>>Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine at
>>research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
>>supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of that
>>basic research with you all.
>>
>>Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several
>>times
>>before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now got
> a
>>fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community. It
>>stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and rising,
> so
>>if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently come
>>to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users who
>>don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
>>users.
>>
>>Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
>>
>>Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters - itıs
>>derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently
>>active
>>PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months, and
>>is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that info
>>broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability to
>>open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
>>ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format), other
>>developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those who
>>still have and use PARIS hardware.
>>
>>To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and
>>censuses;
>>theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but theyıre
>>unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an arbitrary
>>length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
>>timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
>>posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
>>questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different ways
>>so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
>>labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in that
>>number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening
>>months
>>would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
>>
>>Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we might
>>once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me, but as
> a
>>"minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally
> come
>>to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not interested
>>in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
>>starting from here and going forward.
>>
>>So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real users
>>is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven
>>efforts
>>for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
>>than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology,
> and
>>some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful work
>>done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
>>developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
>>
>>Hope this is of interest!
>>
>>- Kerry
>>
>
|
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|
|
|
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| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99589 is a reply to message #99426] |
Sat, 19 July 2008 13:07 |
Ron Bloom
Messages: 12
Registered: July 2008
|
Junior Member |
|
|
Hey Guys,
My name is Ron and this is my first post, but have had the system since 1999.
Please add me to your number and I am thrilled to find an active site for
Paris. I have spent about 4 hours today trying to learn more. My brain has
forgotten much since I just dusted my system off after a few years of not
being set up.
Hey anyone know of any body in the Denver Colorado area that is a user?
Thanks guys for the help in advance.
ron
"Kim W." <no@way.com> wrote:
>
>Spot on, Rod.
>I know two guys that have never posted.
>Hell, I built and configured their host comps for them.
>One is a friend who is happily using my "spare parts",
>(a mec with 8-in, a c-16 and two EDS's) as a stand alone system.
>I also know *of* several other users, but not personally.
>They're out there...
>Kim
>
>
>"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>Yeah, it could be a litle bigger. I know of two Paris users I'm in regular
>>contact with, that to my knowledge, have never posted on this sight. So
>I'm
>>thinking there might be a few more of us that post here that might have
>similar
>>contacts that just don't post. Probably not a large number, but then again,
>>maybe more than you might think. For example, if ther are 400 users world
>>wide, and 100 of them have 2 people they know of (like me) that have never
>>posted, that's 200 more users right there.
>>Or not, I don't know. just thinking.
>>Rod
>>Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>>>Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
>>>yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate posts.
>>>
>>>Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need to
>>>support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
>>>certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need for
>>>hard info - things like current community size and composition etc. If
>we
>>>want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better know
>>>who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball" guesstimates
>>>weren't doing us much justice.
>>>
>>>Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine at
>>>research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
>>>supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of that
>>>basic research with you all.
>>>
>>>Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several
>times
>>>before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now got
>>a
>>>fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community.
It
>>>stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and rising,
>>so
>>>if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently
come
>>>to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users
who
>>>don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
>>>users.
>>>
>>>Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
>>>
>>>Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters - itıs
>>>derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently active
>>>PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months,
>and
>>>is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that info
>>>broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability
>to
>>>open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
>>>ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format), other
>>>developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those who
>>>still have and use PARIS hardware.
>>>
>>>To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and censuses;
>>>theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but theyıre
>>>unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an arbitrary
>>>length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
>>>timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
>>>posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
>>>questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different
ways
>>>so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
>>>labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in that
>>>number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening
months
>>>would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
>>>
>>>Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we might
>>>once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me, but
>as
>>a
>>>"minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally
>>come
>>>to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not interested
>>>in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
>>>starting from here and going forward.
>>>
>>>So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real users
>>>is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven efforts
>>>for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
>>>than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology,
>>and
>>>some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful work
>>>done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
>>>developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
>>>
>>>Hope this is of interest!
>>>
>>>- Kerry
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99591 is a reply to message #99589] |
Sat, 19 July 2008 14:21 |
Perrin Stamatis
Messages: 4
Registered: June 2008
|
Junior Member |
|
|
Hey everybody,
My name is Perrin.
I still check in from time to time.
Been using PARIS since '98.
Love the sound...glad to see the gang is still cooking up new ideas.
Many Thanks!
in article 4882498a$1@linux, Ron Bloom at concerts4u@prodigy.net wrote on
7/19/08 3:07 PM:
>
> Hey Guys,
>
> My name is Ron and this is my first post, but have had the system since 1999.
> Please add me to your number and I am thrilled to find an active site for
> Paris. I have spent about 4 hours today trying to learn more. My brain has
> forgotten much since I just dusted my system off after a few years of not
> being set up.
>
> Hey anyone know of any body in the Denver Colorado area that is a user?
>
> Thanks guys for the help in advance.
> ron
> "Kim W." <no@way.com> wrote:
>>
>> Spot on, Rod.
>> I know two guys that have never posted.
>> Hell, I built and configured their host comps for them.
>> One is a friend who is happily using my "spare parts",
>> (a mec with 8-in, a c-16 and two EDS's) as a stand alone system.
>> I also know *of* several other users, but not personally.
>> They're out there...
>> Kim
>>
>>
>> "Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yeah, it could be a litle bigger. I know of two Paris users I'm in regular
>>> contact with, that to my knowledge, have never posted on this sight. So
>> I'm
>>> thinking there might be a few more of us that post here that might have
>> similar
>>> contacts that just don't post. Probably not a large number, but then again,
>>> maybe more than you might think. For example, if ther are 400 users world
>>> wide, and 100 of them have 2 people they know of (like me) that have never
>>> posted, that's 200 more users right there.
>>> Or not, I don't know. just thinking.
>>> Rod
>>> Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
>>>> yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate posts.
>>>>
>>>> Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need to
>>>> support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
>>>> certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need for
>>>> hard info - things like current community size and composition etc. If
>> we
>>>> want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better know
>>>> who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball" guesstimates
>>>> weren't doing us much justice.
>>>>
>>>> Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine at
>>>> research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
>>>> supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of that
>>>> basic research with you all.
>>>>
>>>> Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several
>> times
>>>> before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now got
>>> a
>>>> fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community.
> It
>>>> stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and rising,
>>> so
>>>> if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently
> come
>>>> to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users
> who
>>>> don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
>>>> users.
>>>>
>>>> Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
>>>>
>>>> Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters - itıs
>>>> derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently active
>>>> PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months,
>> and
>>>> is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that info
>>>> broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability
>> to
>>>> open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
>>>> ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format), other
>>>> developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those who
>>>> still have and use PARIS hardware.
>>>>
>>>> To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and
>>>> censuses;
>>>> theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but theyıre
>>>> unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an arbitrary
>>>> length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
>>>> timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
>>>> posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
>>>> questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different
> ways
>>>> so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
>>>> labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in that
>>>> number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening
> months
>>>> would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
>>>>
>>>> Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we might
>>>> once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me, but
>> as
>>> a
>>>> "minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally
>>> come
>>>> to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not interested
>>>> in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
>>>> starting from here and going forward.
>>>>
>>>> So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real users
>>>> is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven efforts
>>>> for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
>>>> than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology,
>>> and
>>>> some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful work
>>>> done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
>>>> developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this is of interest!
>>>>
>>>> - Kerry
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99592 is a reply to message #99589] |
Sat, 19 July 2008 15:47 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
There are quite a few still. John Macy, Jamie K. Deej is close.
AA
"Ron Bloom" <concerts4u@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:4882498a$1@linux...
>
> Hey Guys,
>
> My name is Ron and this is my first post, but have had the system since
> 1999.
> Please add me to your number and I am thrilled to find an active site for
> Paris. I have spent about 4 hours today trying to learn more. My brain has
> forgotten much since I just dusted my system off after a few years of not
> being set up.
>
> Hey anyone know of any body in the Denver Colorado area that is a user?
>
> Thanks guys for the help in advance.
> ron
> "Kim W." <no@way.com> wrote:
>>
>>Spot on, Rod.
>>I know two guys that have never posted.
>>Hell, I built and configured their host comps for them.
>>One is a friend who is happily using my "spare parts",
>>(a mec with 8-in, a c-16 and two EDS's) as a stand alone system.
>>I also know *of* several other users, but not personally.
>>They're out there...
>>Kim
>>
>>
>>"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Yeah, it could be a litle bigger. I know of two Paris users I'm in
>>>regular
>>>contact with, that to my knowledge, have never posted on this sight. So
>>I'm
>>>thinking there might be a few more of us that post here that might have
>>similar
>>>contacts that just don't post. Probably not a large number, but then
>>>again,
>>>maybe more than you might think. For example, if ther are 400 users world
>>>wide, and 100 of them have 2 people they know of (like me) that have
>>>never
>>>posted, that's 200 more users right there.
>>>Or not, I don't know. just thinking.
>>>Rod
>>>Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>>>>Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
>>>>yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate
>>>>posts.
>>>>
>>>>Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need to
>>>>support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
>>>>certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need for
>>>>hard info - things like current community size and composition etc. If
>>we
>>>>want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better
>>>>know
>>>>who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball"
>>>>guesstimates
>>>>weren't doing us much justice.
>>>>
>>>>Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine at
>>>>research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
>>>>supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of that
>>>>basic research with you all.
>>>>
>>>>Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several
>>times
>>>>before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now got
>>>a
>>>>fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community.
> It
>>>>stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and
>>>>rising,
>>>so
>>>>if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently
> come
>>>>to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users
> who
>>>>don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
>>>>users.
>>>>
>>>>Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
>>>>
>>>>Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters - itıs
>>>>derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently
>>>>active
>>>>PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months,
>>and
>>>>is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that
>>>>info
>>>>broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability
>>to
>>>>open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
>>>>ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format),
>>>>other
>>>>developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those who
>>>>still have and use PARIS hardware.
>>>>
>>>>To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and
>>>>censuses;
>>>>theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but
>>>>theyıre
>>>>unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an
>>>>arbitrary
>>>>length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
>>>>timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
>>>>posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
>>>>questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different
> ways
>>>>so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
>>>>labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in that
>>>>number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening
> months
>>>>would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
>>>>
>>>>Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we
>>>>might
>>>>once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me, but
>>as
>>>a
>>>>"minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally
>>>come
>>>>to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not
>>>>interested
>>>>in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
>>>>starting from here and going forward.
>>>>
>>>>So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real
>>>>users
>>>>is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven
>>>>efforts
>>>>for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
>>>>than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology,
>>>and
>>>>some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful
>>>>work
>>>>done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
>>>>developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
>>>>
>>>>Hope this is of interest!
>>>>
>>>>- Kerry
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99594 is a reply to message #99592] |
Sat, 19 July 2008 20:24 |
Eugene B
Messages: 35
Registered: August 2005
|
Member |
|
|
"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>There are quite a few still. John Macy, Jamie K. Deej is close.
>AA
>
>
>"Ron Bloom" <concerts4u@prodigy.net> wrote in message
>news:4882498a$1@linux...
>>
>> Hey Guys,
>>
>> My name is Ron and this is my first post, but have had the system since
>> 1999.
>> Please add me to your number and I am thrilled to find an active site
for
>> Paris. I have spent about 4 hours today trying to learn more. My brain
has
>> forgotten much since I just dusted my system off after a few years of
not
>> being set up.
>>
>> Hey anyone know of any body in the Denver Colorado area that is a user?
>>
>> Thanks guys for the help in advance.
>> ron
>> "Kim W." <no@way.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Spot on, Rod.
>>>I know two guys that have never posted.
>>>Hell, I built and configured their host comps for them.
>>>One is a friend who is happily using my "spare parts",
>>>(a mec with 8-in, a c-16 and two EDS's) as a stand alone system.
>>>I also know *of* several other users, but not personally.
>>>They're out there...
>>>Kim
>>>
>>>
>>>"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Yeah, it could be a litle bigger. I know of two Paris users I'm in
>>>>regular
>>>>contact with, that to my knowledge, have never posted on this sight.
So
>>>I'm
>>>>thinking there might be a few more of us that post here that might have
>>>similar
>>>>contacts that just don't post. Probably not a large number, but then
>>>>again,
>>>>maybe more than you might think. For example, if ther are 400 users world
>>>>wide, and 100 of them have 2 people they know of (like me) that have
>>>>never
>>>>posted, that's 200 more users right there.
>>>>Or not, I don't know. just thinking.
>>>>Rod
>>>>Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>>>>>Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
>>>>>yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate
>>>>>posts.
>>>>>
>>>>>Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need
to
>>>>>support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
>>>>>certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need
for
>>>>>hard info - things like current community size and composition etc.
If
>>>we
>>>>>want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better
>>>>>know
>>>>>who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball"
>>>>>guesstimates
>>>>>weren't doing us much justice.
>>>>>
>>>>>Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine at
>>>>>research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
>>>>>supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of
that
>>>>>basic research with you all.
>>>>>
>>>>>Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several
>>>times
>>>>>before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now
got
>>>>a
>>>>>fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community.
>> It
>>>>>stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and
>>>>>rising,
>>>>so
>>>>>if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently
>> come
>>>>>to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users
>> who
>>>>>don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
>>>>>users.
>>>>>
>>>>>Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
>>>>>
>>>>>Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters -
itıs
>>>>>derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently
>>>>>active
>>>>>PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months,
>>>and
>>>>>is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that
>>>>>info
>>>>>broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability
>>>to
>>>>>open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
>>>>>ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format),
>>>>>other
>>>>>developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those
who
>>>>>still have and use PARIS hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>>To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and
>>>>>censuses;
>>>>>theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but
>>>>>theyıre
>>>>>unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an
>>>>>arbitrary
>>>>>length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
>>>>>timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
>>>>>posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
>>>>>questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different
>> ways
>>>>>so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
>>>>>labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in
that
>>>>>number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening
>> months
>>>>>would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
>>>>>
>>>>>Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we
>>>>>might
>>>>>once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me, but
>>>as
>>>>a
>>>>>"minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally
>>>>come
>>>>>to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not
>>>>>interested
>>>>>in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
>>>>>starting from here and going forward.
>>>>>
>>>>>So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real
>>>>>users
>>>>>is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven
>>>>>efforts
>>>>>for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
>>>>>than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology,
>>>>and
>>>>>some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful
>>>>>work
>>>>>done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
>>>>>developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
>>>>>
>>>>>Hope this is of interest!
>>>>>
>>>>>- Kerry
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99595 is a reply to message #99592] |
Sat, 19 July 2008 20:28 |
Eugene B
Messages: 35
Registered: August 2005
|
Member |
|
|
Have used paris since 2000.
I don't mind the limitations because the sound
is excellent.
Eugene
"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>There are quite a few still. John Macy, Jamie K. Deej is close.
>AA
>
>
>"Ron Bloom" <concerts4u@prodigy.net> wrote in message
>news:4882498a$1@linux...
>>
>> Hey Guys,
>>
>> My name is Ron and this is my first post, but have had the system since
>> 1999.
>> Please add me to your number and I am thrilled to find an active site
for
>> Paris. I have spent about 4 hours today trying to learn more. My brain
has
>> forgotten much since I just dusted my system off after a few years of
not
>> being set up.
>>
>> Hey anyone know of any body in the Denver Colorado area that is a user?
>>
>> Thanks guys for the help in advance.
>> ron
>> "Kim W." <no@way.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Spot on, Rod.
>>>I know two guys that have never posted.
>>>Hell, I built and configured their host comps for them.
>>>One is a friend who is happily using my "spare parts",
>>>(a mec with 8-in, a c-16 and two EDS's) as a stand alone system.
>>>I also know *of* several other users, but not personally.
>>>They're out there...
>>>Kim
>>>
>>>
>>>"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Yeah, it could be a litle bigger. I know of two Paris users I'm in
>>>>regular
>>>>contact with, that to my knowledge, have never posted on this sight.
So
>>>I'm
>>>>thinking there might be a few more of us that post here that might have
>>>similar
>>>>contacts that just don't post. Probably not a large number, but then
>>>>again,
>>>>maybe more than you might think. For example, if ther are 400 users world
>>>>wide, and 100 of them have 2 people they know of (like me) that have
>>>>never
>>>>posted, that's 200 more users right there.
>>>>Or not, I don't know. just thinking.
>>>>Rod
>>>>Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>>>>>Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
>>>>>yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate
>>>>>posts.
>>>>>
>>>>>Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need
to
>>>>>support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
>>>>>certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need
for
>>>>>hard info - things like current community size and composition etc.
If
>>>we
>>>>>want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better
>>>>>know
>>>>>who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball"
>>>>>guesstimates
>>>>>weren't doing us much justice.
>>>>>
>>>>>Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine at
>>>>>research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
>>>>>supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of
that
>>>>>basic research with you all.
>>>>>
>>>>>Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several
>>>times
>>>>>before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now
got
>>>>a
>>>>>fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community.
>> It
>>>>>stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and
>>>>>rising,
>>>>so
>>>>>if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently
>> come
>>>>>to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users
>> who
>>>>>don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
>>>>>users.
>>>>>
>>>>>Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
>>>>>
>>>>>Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters -
itıs
>>>>>derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently
>>>>>active
>>>>>PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months,
>>>and
>>>>>is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that
>>>>>info
>>>>>broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability
>>>to
>>>>>open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
>>>>>ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format),
>>>>>other
>>>>>developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those
who
>>>>>still have and use PARIS hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>>To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and
>>>>>censuses;
>>>>>theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but
>>>>>theyıre
>>>>>unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an
>>>>>arbitrary
>>>>>length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
>>>>>timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
>>>>>posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
>>>>>questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different
>> ways
>>>>>so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
>>>>>labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in
that
>>>>>number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening
>> months
>>>>>would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
>>>>>
>>>>>Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we
>>>>>might
>>>>>once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me, but
>>>as
>>>>a
>>>>>"minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally
>>>>come
>>>>>to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not
>>>>>interested
>>>>>in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
>>>>>starting from here and going forward.
>>>>>
>>>>>So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real
>>>>>users
>>>>>is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven
>>>>>efforts
>>>>>for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
>>>>>than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology,
>>>>and
>>>>>some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful
>>>>>work
>>>>>done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
>>>>>developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
>>>>>
>>>>>Hope this is of interest!
>>>>>
>>>>>- Kerry
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99603 is a reply to message #99589] |
Mon, 21 July 2008 12:03 |
|
|
Hey Ron - nice to have you aboard! I'll add you to The List.
I've started a couple of sites, containing both info gleaned from previous
FAQ sites and new material, to collect, edit and update PARIS lore:
PARIS blog: http://ensoniqparis.blogspot.com/
PARIS Wiki: http://www.kerrygalloway.com/WikiPARIS/wikka.php?wakka=HomeP age
They're sparse right now. That's partly because I've been consumed with
projects lately, but in larger part because I don't have a PARIS rig right
now to verify tips/techniques/terminology/bugs etc (I don't want to put too
much flaky "relying on memory and notes" info up there). I don't expect
either site will fully hit their stride until I set my PARIS studio up in
January '09, but the rig is coming within days and then I hope to buckle
down with an update or two. But feel free to throw in what you like at the
Wiki, it's totally user-modifiable.
- Kerry
On 7/19/08 1:07 PM, in article 4882498a$1@linux, "Ron Bloom"
<concerts4u@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> Hey Guys,
>
> My name is Ron and this is my first post, but have had the system since 1999.
> Please add me to your number and I am thrilled to find an active site for
> Paris. I have spent about 4 hours today trying to learn more. My brain has
> forgotten much since I just dusted my system off after a few years of not
> being set up.
>
> Hey anyone know of any body in the Denver Colorado area that is a user?
>
> Thanks guys for the help in advance.
> ron
> "Kim W." <no@way.com> wrote:
>>
>> Spot on, Rod.
>> I know two guys that have never posted.
>> Hell, I built and configured their host comps for them.
>> One is a friend who is happily using my "spare parts",
>> (a mec with 8-in, a c-16 and two EDS's) as a stand alone system.
>> I also know *of* several other users, but not personally.
>> They're out there...
>> Kim
>>
>>
>> "Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yeah, it could be a litle bigger. I know of two Paris users I'm in regular
>>> contact with, that to my knowledge, have never posted on this sight. So
>> I'm
>>> thinking there might be a few more of us that post here that might have
>> similar
>>> contacts that just don't post. Probably not a large number, but then again,
>>> maybe more than you might think. For example, if ther are 400 users world
>>> wide, and 100 of them have 2 people they know of (like me) that have never
>>> posted, that's 200 more users right there.
>>> Or not, I don't know. just thinking.
>>> Rod
>>> Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
>>>> yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate posts.
>>>>
>>>> Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need to
>>>> support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
>>>> certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need for
>>>> hard info - things like current community size and composition etc. If
>> we
>>>> want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better know
>>>> who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball" guesstimates
>>>> weren't doing us much justice.
>>>>
>>>> Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine at
>>>> research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
>>>> supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of that
>>>> basic research with you all.
>>>>
>>>> Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several
>> times
>>>> before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now got
>>> a
>>>> fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community.
> It
>>>> stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and rising,
>>> so
>>>> if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently
> come
>>>> to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users
> who
>>>> don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
>>>> users.
>>>>
>>>> Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
>>>>
>>>> Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters - itıs
>>>> derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently active
>>>> PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months,
>> and
>>>> is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that info
>>>> broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability
>> to
>>>> open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
>>>> ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format), other
>>>> developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those who
>>>> still have and use PARIS hardware.
>>>>
>>>> To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and
>>>> censuses;
>>>> theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but theyıre
>>>> unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an arbitrary
>>>> length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
>>>> timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
>>>> posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
>>>> questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different
> ways
>>>> so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
>>>> labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in that
>>>> number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening
> months
>>>> would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
>>>>
>>>> Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we might
>>>> once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me, but
>> as
>>> a
>>>> "minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally
>>> come
>>>> to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not interested
>>>> in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
>>>> starting from here and going forward.
>>>>
>>>> So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real users
>>>> is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven efforts
>>>> for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
>>>> than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology,
>>> and
>>>> some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful work
>>>> done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
>>>> developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this is of interest!
>>>>
>>>> - Kerry
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
|
|
|
|
| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99604 is a reply to message #99592] |
Mon, 21 July 2008 12:19 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Also El Miguel, plus Dedric is down the road in C. Springs. I gave mine
up due to lack of integrated MIDI/soft synth functionality but it worked
well for recording/editing audio. John has the most extensive PARIS
setup I know of in the Denver area.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
Aaron Allen wrote:
> There are quite a few still. John Macy, Jamie K. Deej is close.
> AA
>
>
> "Ron Bloom" <concerts4u@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:4882498a$1@linux...
>> Hey Guys,
>>
>> My name is Ron and this is my first post, but have had the system since
>> 1999.
>> Please add me to your number and I am thrilled to find an active site for
>> Paris. I have spent about 4 hours today trying to learn more. My brain has
>> forgotten much since I just dusted my system off after a few years of not
>> being set up.
>>
>> Hey anyone know of any body in the Denver Colorado area that is a user?
>>
>> Thanks guys for the help in advance.
>> ron
>> "Kim W." <no@way.com> wrote:
>>> Spot on, Rod.
>>> I know two guys that have never posted.
>>> Hell, I built and configured their host comps for them.
>>> One is a friend who is happily using my "spare parts",
>>> (a mec with 8-in, a c-16 and two EDS's) as a stand alone system.
>>> I also know *of* several other users, but not personally.
>>> They're out there...
>>> Kim
>>>
>>>
>>> "Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote:
>>>> Yeah, it could be a litle bigger. I know of two Paris users I'm in
>>>> regular
>>>> contact with, that to my knowledge, have never posted on this sight. So
>>> I'm
>>>> thinking there might be a few more of us that post here that might have
>>> similar
>>>> contacts that just don't post. Probably not a large number, but then
>>>> again,
>>>> maybe more than you might think. For example, if ther are 400 users world
>>>> wide, and 100 of them have 2 people they know of (like me) that have
>>>> never
>>>> posted, that's 200 more users right there.
>>>> Or not, I don't know. just thinking.
>>>> Rod
>>>> Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
>>>>> yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate
>>>>> posts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need to
>>>>> support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
>>>>> certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need for
>>>>> hard info - things like current community size and composition etc. If
>>> we
>>>>> want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better
>>>>> know
>>>>> who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball"
>>>>> guesstimates
>>>>> weren't doing us much justice.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine at
>>>>> research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
>>>>> supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of that
>>>>> basic research with you all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several
>>> times
>>>>> before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now got
>>>> a
>>>>> fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community.
>> It
>>>>> stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and
>>>>> rising,
>>>> so
>>>>> if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently
>> come
>>>>> to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users
>> who
>>>>> don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
>>>>> users.
>>>>>
>>>>> Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
>>>>>
>>>>> Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters - itıs
>>>>> derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently
>>>>> active
>>>>> PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months,
>>> and
>>>>> is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that
>>>>> info
>>>>> broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability
>>> to
>>>>> open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
>>>>> ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format),
>>>>> other
>>>>> developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those who
>>>>> still have and use PARIS hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>> To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and
>>>>> censuses;
>>>>> theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but
>>>>> theyıre
>>>>> unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an
>>>>> arbitrary
>>>>> length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
>>>>> timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
>>>>> posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
>>>>> questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different
>> ways
>>>>> so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
>>>>> labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in that
>>>>> number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening
>> months
>>>>> would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
>>>>>
>>>>> Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we
>>>>> might
>>>>> once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me, but
>>> as
>>>> a
>>>>> "minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally
>>>> come
>>>>> to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not
>>>>> interested
>>>>> in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
>>>>> starting from here and going forward.
>>>>>
>>>>> So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real
>>>>> users
>>>>> is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven
>>>>> efforts
>>>>> for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
>>>>> than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology,
>>>> and
>>>>> some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful
>>>>> work
>>>>> done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
>>>>> developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope this is of interest!
>>>>>
>>>>> - Kerry
>>>>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99610 is a reply to message #99589] |
Tue, 22 July 2008 07:52 |
Ed
Messages: 199
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I have seen these posts numerous times, but I never got the indication that
you wanted people to respond. My understanding is that you wanted people
to respond that knew of people not on the newsgroup. I am confused.
Kerry, are you building a email count? Hopefully I am on it... My email
is edward dot zurick at-sign gmail dot com
Thanks
"Ron Bloom" <concerts4u@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>Hey Guys,
>
>My name is Ron and this is my first post, but have had the system since
1999.
>Please add me to your number and I am thrilled to find an active site for
>Paris. I have spent about 4 hours today trying to learn more. My brain has
>forgotten much since I just dusted my system off after a few years of not
>being set up.
>
>Hey anyone know of any body in the Denver Colorado area that is a user?
>
>Thanks guys for the help in advance.
>ron
>"Kim W." <no@way.com> wrote:
>>
>>Spot on, Rod.
>>I know two guys that have never posted.
>>Hell, I built and configured their host comps for them.
>>One is a friend who is happily using my "spare parts",
>>(a mec with 8-in, a c-16 and two EDS's) as a stand alone system.
>>I also know *of* several other users, but not personally.
>>They're out there...
>>Kim
>>
>>
>>"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Yeah, it could be a litle bigger. I know of two Paris users I'm in regular
>>>contact with, that to my knowledge, have never posted on this sight. So
>>I'm
>>>thinking there might be a few more of us that post here that might have
>>similar
>>>contacts that just don't post. Probably not a large number, but then again,
>>>maybe more than you might think. For example, if ther are 400 users world
>>>wide, and 100 of them have 2 people they know of (like me) that have never
>>>posted, that's 200 more users right there.
>>>Or not, I don't know. just thinking.
>>>Rod
>>>Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>>>>Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
>>>>yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate
posts.
>>>>
>>>>Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need
to
>>>>support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
>>>>certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need
for
>>>>hard info - things like current community size and composition etc. If
>>we
>>>>want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better
know
>>>>who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball" guesstimates
>>>>weren't doing us much justice.
>>>>
>>>>Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine at
>>>>research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
>>>>supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of that
>>>>basic research with you all.
>>>>
>>>>Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several
>>times
>>>>before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now
got
>>>a
>>>>fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community.
>It
>>>>stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and rising,
>>>so
>>>>if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently
>come
>>>>to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users
>who
>>>>don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
>>>>users.
>>>>
>>>>Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
>>>>
>>>>Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters - itıs
>>>>derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently
active
>>>>PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months,
>>and
>>>>is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that
info
>>>>broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability
>>to
>>>>open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
>>>>ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format),
other
>>>>developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those
who
>>>>still have and use PARIS hardware.
>>>>
>>>>To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and censuses;
>>>>theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but theyıre
>>>>unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an arbitrary
>>>>length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
>>>>timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
>>>>posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
>>>>questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different
>ways
>>>>so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
>>>>labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in that
>>>>number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening
>months
>>>>would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
>>>>
>>>>Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we might
>>>>once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me, but
>>as
>>>a
>>>>"minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally
>>>come
>>>>to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not interested
>>>>in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
>>>>starting from here and going forward.
>>>>
>>>>So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real
users
>>>>is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven efforts
>>>>for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
>>>>than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology,
>>>and
>>>>some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful
work
>>>>done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
>>>>developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
>>>>
>>>>Hope this is of interest!
>>>>
>>>>- Kerry
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99620 is a reply to message #99610] |
Tue, 22 July 2008 23:55 |
|
|
Hi Ed -
I wasn't originally looking for responses, I was just throwing out
interesting discoveries - but yes, it's invaluable to have less-frequent
posters "step forward and be counted". I just did it the way I did because a
nose-count was necessary and I reckoned doing it that way would give results
I could be fairly confident in. Knowing how many current users there are is
of immense use in organizing larger efforts, and the more names we have on
that list the more power we have as a community.
As far as it becoming an email list - this was originally just put together
from the perspective of doing a community count, so for example I haven't
even bothered removing things like "NOSPAM" from the email addresses. But
yes - it could definitely the makings of a nice tight-focused little email
list. It would be a perfect method to occasionally contact those PARIS users
who don't regularly frequent the NG so we can let them know about
significant developments - plugin releases, driver development, etc. I hate
spam, and any use of the list would have to be of obvious benefit to the
community (and has to have a prominent "opt out" link). But I've filed the
idea away against the right set of circumstances - and yep, now you're on it
too :).
- Kerry
On 7/22/08 7:52 AM, in article 4885f42b$1@linux, "Ed" <askme@email.com>
wrote:
>
> I have seen these posts numerous times, but I never got the indication that
> you wanted people to respond. My understanding is that you wanted people
> to respond that knew of people not on the newsgroup. I am confused.
>
> Kerry, are you building a email count? Hopefully I am on it... My email
> is edward dot zurick at-sign gmail dot com
>
> Thanks
>
> "Ron Bloom" <concerts4u@prodigy.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Guys,
>>
>> My name is Ron and this is my first post, but have had the system since
> 1999.
>> Please add me to your number and I am thrilled to find an active site for
>> Paris. I have spent about 4 hours today trying to learn more. My brain has
>> forgotten much since I just dusted my system off after a few years of not
>> being set up.
>>
>> Hey anyone know of any body in the Denver Colorado area that is a user?
>>
>> Thanks guys for the help in advance.
>> ron
>> "Kim W." <no@way.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Spot on, Rod.
>>> I know two guys that have never posted.
>>> Hell, I built and configured their host comps for them.
>>> One is a friend who is happily using my "spare parts",
>>> (a mec with 8-in, a c-16 and two EDS's) as a stand alone system.
>>> I also know *of* several other users, but not personally.
>>> They're out there...
>>> Kim
>>>
>>>
>>> "Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, it could be a litle bigger. I know of two Paris users I'm in regular
>>>> contact with, that to my knowledge, have never posted on this sight. So
>>> I'm
>>>> thinking there might be a few more of us that post here that might have
>>> similar
>>>> contacts that just don't post. Probably not a large number, but then again,
>>>> maybe more than you might think. For example, if ther are 400 users world
>>>> wide, and 100 of them have 2 people they know of (like me) that have never
>>>> posted, that's 200 more users right there.
>>>> Or not, I don't know. just thinking.
>>>> Rod
>>>> Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
>>>>> yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate
> posts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need
> to
>>>>> support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
>>>>> certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need
> for
>>>>> hard info - things like current community size and composition etc. If
>>> we
>>>>> want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better
> know
>>>>> who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball" guesstimates
>>>>> weren't doing us much justice.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine at
>>>>> research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
>>>>> supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of that
>>>>> basic research with you all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several
>>> times
>>>>> before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now
> got
>>>> a
>>>>> fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community.
>> It
>>>>> stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and rising,
>>>> so
>>>>> if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently
>> come
>>>>> to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users
>> who
>>>>> don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
>>>>> users.
>>>>>
>>>>> Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
>>>>>
>>>>> Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters - itıs
>>>>> derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently
> active
>>>>> PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months,
>>> and
>>>>> is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that
> info
>>>>> broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability
>>> to
>>>>> open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
>>>>> ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format),
> other
>>>>> developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those
> who
>>>>> still have and use PARIS hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>> To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and
>>>>> censuses;
>>>>> theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but theyıre
>>>>> unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an arbitrary
>>>>> length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
>>>>> timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
>>>>> posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
>>>>> questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different
>> ways
>>>>> so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
>>>>> labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in that
>>>>> number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening
>> months
>>>>> would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
>>>>>
>>>>> Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we might
>>>>> once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me, but
>>> as
>>>> a
>>>>> "minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally
>>>> come
>>>>> to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not interested
>>>>> in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
>>>>> starting from here and going forward.
>>>>>
>>>>> So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real
> users
>>>>> is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven
>>>>> efforts
>>>>> for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
>>>>> than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology,
>>>> and
>>>>> some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful
> work
>>>>> done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
>>>>> developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope this is of interest!
>>>>>
>>>>> - Kerry
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
|
|
|
|
| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99624 is a reply to message #99409] |
Wed, 23 July 2008 06:46 |
Goran Stojiljkovic
Messages: 29
Registered: October 2005
|
Junior Member |
|
|
5 everyday Paris users here in Slavonia-part of Croatia...(in Croatia i
think about maybe 20 ) ....
"Kerry Galloway" <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote in message
news:C4927D67.B2A4%kg@kerrygalloway.com...
> Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
> yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate
> posts.
>
> Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need to
> support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
> certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need for
> hard info - things like current community size and composition etc. If we
> want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better know
> who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball" guesstimates
> weren't doing us much justice.
>
> Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine at
> research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
> supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of that
> basic research with you all.
>
> Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several
> times
> before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now got a
> fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community. It
> stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and rising,
> so
> if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently come
> to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users who
> don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
> users.
>
> Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
>
> Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters - itıs
> derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently
> active
> PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months, and
> is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that info
> broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability to
> open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
> ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format), other
> developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those who
> still have and use PARIS hardware.
>
> To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and
> censuses;
> theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but theyıre
> unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an arbitrary
> length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
> timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
> posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
> questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different ways
> so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
> labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in that
> number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening
> months
> would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
>
> Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we might
> once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me, but as
> a
> "minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally
> come
> to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not interested
> in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
> starting from here and going forward.
>
> So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real users
> is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven
> efforts
> for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
> than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology,
> and
> some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful work
> done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
> developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
>
> Hope this is of interest!
>
> - Kerry
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99631 is a reply to message #99603] |
Wed, 23 July 2008 14:09 |
Ron Bloom
Messages: 12
Registered: July 2008
|
Junior Member |
|
|
Kerry - Sweet man thanks for the contact. I look forward to learning more
and causing myself problems as I reach highier then the system will allow
:-) Tonight my second Paris system shows up and I try to put the two EDS
cards in and change the skin. Double the pleasure double the fun right? Some
days I just feel over me head :-)
Thanks again
Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>Hey Ron - nice to have you aboard! I'll add you to The List.
>
>I've started a couple of sites, containing both info gleaned from previous
>FAQ sites and new material, to collect, edit and update PARIS lore:
>
>PARIS blog: http://ensoniqparis.blogspot.com/
>PARIS Wiki: http://www.kerrygalloway.com/WikiPARIS/wikka.php?wakka=HomeP age
>
>They're sparse right now. That's partly because I've been consumed with
>projects lately, but in larger part because I don't have a PARIS rig right
>now to verify tips/techniques/terminology/bugs etc (I don't want to put
too
>much flaky "relying on memory and notes" info up there). I don't expect
>either site will fully hit their stride until I set my PARIS studio up in
>January '09, but the rig is coming within days and then I hope to buckle
>down with an update or two. But feel free to throw in what you like at the
>Wiki, it's totally user-modifiable.
>
>- Kerry
>
>On 7/19/08 1:07 PM, in article 4882498a$1@linux, "Ron Bloom"
><concerts4u@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hey Guys,
>>
>> My name is Ron and this is my first post, but have had the system since
1999.
>> Please add me to your number and I am thrilled to find an active site
for
>> Paris. I have spent about 4 hours today trying to learn more. My brain
has
>> forgotten much since I just dusted my system off after a few years of
not
>> being set up.
>>
>> Hey anyone know of any body in the Denver Colorado area that is a user?
>>
>> Thanks guys for the help in advance.
>> ron
>> "Kim W." <no@way.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Spot on, Rod.
>>> I know two guys that have never posted.
>>> Hell, I built and configured their host comps for them.
>>> One is a friend who is happily using my "spare parts",
>>> (a mec with 8-in, a c-16 and two EDS's) as a stand alone system.
>>> I also know *of* several other users, but not personally.
>>> They're out there...
>>> Kim
>>>
>>>
>>> "Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, it could be a litle bigger. I know of two Paris users I'm in regular
>>>> contact with, that to my knowledge, have never posted on this sight.
So
>>> I'm
>>>> thinking there might be a few more of us that post here that might have
>>> similar
>>>> contacts that just don't post. Probably not a large number, but then
again,
>>>> maybe more than you might think. For example, if ther are 400 users
world
>>>> wide, and 100 of them have 2 people they know of (like me) that have
never
>>>> posted, that's 200 more users right there.
>>>> Or not, I don't know. just thinking.
>>>> Rod
>>>> Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
>>>>> yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate
posts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need
to
>>>>> support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
>>>>> certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need
for
>>>>> hard info - things like current community size and composition etc.
If
>>> we
>>>>> want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better
know
>>>>> who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball" guesstimates
>>>>> weren't doing us much justice.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine
at
>>>>> research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
>>>>> supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of
that
>>>>> basic research with you all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several
>>> times
>>>>> before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now
got
>>>> a
>>>>> fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community.
>> It
>>>>> stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and rising,
>>>> so
>>>>> if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently
>> come
>>>>> to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users
>> who
>>>>> don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
>>>>> users.
>>>>>
>>>>> Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
>>>>>
>>>>> Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters -
itıs
>>>>> derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently
active
>>>>> PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months,
>>> and
>>>>> is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that
info
>>>>> broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability
>>> to
>>>>> open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
>>>>> ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format),
other
>>>>> developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those
who
>>>>> still have and use PARIS hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>> To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and
>>>>> censuses;
>>>>> theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but theyıre
>>>>> unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an arbitrary
>>>>> length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
>>>>> timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
>>>>> posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
>>>>> questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different
>> ways
>>>>> so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
>>>>> labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in
that
>>>>> number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening
>> months
>>>>> would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
>>>>>
>>>>> Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we
might
>>>>> once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me,
but
>>> as
>>>> a
>>>>> "minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally
>>>> come
>>>>> to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not interested
>>>>> in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
>>>>> starting from here and going forward.
>>>>>
>>>>> So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real
users
>>>>> is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven
efforts
>>>>> for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
>>>>> than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology,
>>>> and
>>>>> some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful
work
>>>>> done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
>>>>> developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope this is of interest!
>>>>>
>>>>> - Kerry
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99872 is a reply to message #99409] |
Mon, 04 August 2008 22:41 |
|
|
With current updates - list stands at 136. It would have been 135, but I
just realized I'd omitted my own name. Duh.
- Kerry
On 7/3/08 12:58 PM, in article C4927D67.B2A4%kg@kerrygalloway.com, "Kerry
Galloway" <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
> Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
> yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate posts.
>
> Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need to
> support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
> certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need for
> hard info - things like current community size and composition etc. If we
> want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better know
> who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball" guesstimates
> weren't doing us much justice.
>
> Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine at
> research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
> supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of that
> basic research with you all.
>
> Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several times
> before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now got a
> fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community. It
> stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and rising, so
> if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently come
> to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users who
> don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
> users.
>
> Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
>
> Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters - itıs
> derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently active
> PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months, and
> is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that info
> broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability to
> open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
> ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format), other
> developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those who
> still have and use PARIS hardware.
>
> To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and censuses;
> theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but theyıre
> unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an arbitrary
> length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
> timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
> posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
> questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different ways
> so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
> labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in that
> number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening months
> would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
>
> Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we might
> once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me, but as a
> "minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally come
> to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not interested
> in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
> starting from here and going forward.
>
> So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real users
> is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven efforts
> for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
> than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology, and
> some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful work
> done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
> developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
>
> Hope this is of interest!
>
> - Kerry
>
"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
|
|
|
|
| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99902 is a reply to message #99872] |
Tue, 05 August 2008 20:43 |
Clay
Messages: 1
Registered: August 2008
|
Junior Member |
|
|
Kerry,
You can add 2 more users to your count; myself and a friend (both in the
Columbia,SC area) still use Paris. Hope this helps.
Clay
Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>With current updates - list stands at 136. It would have been 135, but I
>just realized I'd omitted my own name. Duh.
>
>- Kerry
>
>
>On 7/3/08 12:58 PM, in article C4927D67.B2A4%kg@kerrygalloway.com, "Kerry
>Galloway" <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
>> yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate posts.
>>
>> Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need to
>> support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
>> certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need for
>> hard info - things like current community size and composition etc. If
we
>> want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better know
>> who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball" guesstimates
>> weren't doing us much justice.
>>
>> Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine at
>> research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
>> supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of that
>> basic research with you all.
>>
>> Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several
times
>> before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now got
a
>> fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community.
It
>> stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and rising,
so
>> if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently
come
>> to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users
who
>> don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
>> users.
>>
>> Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
>>
>> Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters - itıs
>> derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently active
>> PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months,
and
>> is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that info
>> broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability
to
>> open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
>> ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format), other
>> developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those who
>> still have and use PARIS hardware.
>>
>> To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and censuses;
>> theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but theyıre
>> unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an arbitrary
>> length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
>> timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
>> posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
>> questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different
ways
>> so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
>> labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in that
>> number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening
months
>> would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
>>
>> Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we might
>> once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me, but
as a
>> "minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally
come
>> to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not interested
>> in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
>> starting from here and going forward.
>>
>> So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real users
>> is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven efforts
>> for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
>> than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology,
and
>> some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful work
>> done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
>> developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
>>
>> Hope this is of interest!
>>
>> - Kerry
>>
>
|
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|
|
| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99903 is a reply to message #99902] |
Tue, 05 August 2008 21:01 |
|
|
Thanks Clay; I've got you in the survey. I'll have to hold off on your
friend for the moment because I have no way of including a person without
any sort of identifying info, but I've filed that info away along with other
reports of far-flung users.
Come on over to the blog too, there's an interview with Gantt up there with
good PARIS tips:
http://ensoniqparis.blogspot.com/
And the Wiki is at 160 pages now:
http://www.kerrygalloway.com/WikiPARIS/wikka.php?wakka=HomeP age
Nice to see all these new faces, and welcome!
- Kerry
On 8/5/08 8:43 PM, in article 48991dd9$1@linux, "Clay" <clayinsc@sc.rr.com>
wrote:
>
> Kerry,
> You can add 2 more users to your count; myself and a friend (both in the
> Columbia,SC area) still use Paris. Hope this helps.
>
> Clay
>
> Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>> With current updates - list stands at 136. It would have been 135, but I
>> just realized I'd omitted my own name. Duh.
>>
>> - Kerry
>>
>>
>> On 7/3/08 12:58 PM, in article C4927D67.B2A4%kg@kerrygalloway.com, "Kerry
>> Galloway" <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
>>> yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate posts.
>>>
>>> Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need to
>>> support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
>>> certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need for
>>> hard info - things like current community size and composition etc. If
> we
>>> want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better know
>>> who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball" guesstimates
>>> weren't doing us much justice.
>>>
>>> Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine at
>>> research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
>>> supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of that
>>> basic research with you all.
>>>
>>> Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several
> times
>>> before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now got
> a
>>> fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community.
> It
>>> stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and rising,
> so
>>> if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently
> come
>>> to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users
> who
>>> don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
>>> users.
>>>
>>> Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
>>>
>>> Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters - itıs
>>> derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently active
>>> PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months,
> and
>>> is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that info
>>> broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability
> to
>>> open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
>>> ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format), other
>>> developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those who
>>> still have and use PARIS hardware.
>>>
>>> To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and censuses;
>>> theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but theyıre
>>> unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an arbitrary
>>> length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
>>> timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
>>> posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
>>> questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different
> ways
>>> so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
>>> labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in that
>>> number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening
> months
>>> would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
>>>
>>> Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we might
>>> once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me, but
> as a
>>> "minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally
> come
>>> to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not interested
>>> in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
>>> starting from here and going forward.
>>>
>>> So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real users
>>> is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven efforts
>>> for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
>>> than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology,
> and
>>> some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful work
>>> done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
>>> developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
>>>
>>> Hope this is of interest!
>>>
>>> - Kerry
>>>
>>
>
"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99975 is a reply to message #99974] |
Thu, 07 August 2008 17:07 |
|
|
Oh geez, that reminds me of a very uncomfortable session moment years back.
I'd been doing quite a few co-productions with Shawn Pierce, a lovely cat
and a great producer; I generally handled the musical side and he handled
the technical side and we split the difference in the middle.
We had a project where "everything at once, in the same room, with the
engineer and producer and all" was a vibe we wanted to experiment with. With
some trepidation (I don't have outside producers working in my workspace
very often) - and although we had access to lots of good rooms - I'd
convinced him my own space and PARIS were worth a shot. So the day came and
we set up and started getting sounds, and Shawn popped the headphones on and
off a few times, with mounting concern, and said - "I know what this
system's *supposed* to do - but put the cans on one ear. I *hear* latency,
and that's not going to be acceptable".
Although I'd never heard a scrap of latency in PARIS before, I was certainly
hearing some "soundcard"-type latency now - not awful but not helpful for
tracking, and certainly not what I'd confidently represented PARIS as
having. For a sickening minute I was quite convinced that Shawn had simply
spotted something that had always been there but that I'd simply never
noticed before - something threatening to be a session-stopper - and I was
feeling sick to my stomach.
And then the drummer said "Strange, I've got no latency over here", and with
curiosity we stepped over towards the drums trailing our headphone cables,
and as we got closer the perceived latency dropped in our headphones until
standing next to the drums it was gone.
Turned out that neither of us had done a ton of "in the room with the band"
tracking. Shawn's ears were completely correct, but there was no latency in
PARIS; what we hadn't taken into account was the 20 feet of physical
separation between the mix position and the drums, which delayed their
acoustic sound over by the mixing board. Far from *PARIS* having latency,
the *real* sound of the drums in the room was arriving later than PARIS'
50-foot-round-trip monitoring; the PARIS signal was arriving on time and we
were hearing the latency of the "real world".
The session continued - with new respect for PARIS.
- Kerry
On 8/7/08 3:05 PM, in article 489b7406@linux, "geo" <nlyn@execpc.com> wrote:
>
> I continue to make records with Paris. No suitable replacement except
> perhaps PTs. I record 16 tracks live and require no latency que mixes. Last
> week had a Steinberg guy in here...yawning at my rig until I told him the
> que mix was POST Paris . That dropped his jaw Ha Ha. Good fun with 10 year
> old gear...tribute to the creators.
>
>
> --
> Geo
>
>
"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
|
|
|
|
| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #99986 is a reply to message #99975] |
Fri, 08 August 2008 08:21 |
Rich[7]
Messages: 1
Registered: August 2008
|
Junior Member |
|
|
Great example - thanks for sharing... I have 2 Paris Systems a Protools system
and a Cubase system (how is that for being all over the place) - the Paris
gets the most use. I just always feel the need to say, yep I have protools
or no one seems to listen - then I say check out this "vintage system" that
sounds like tape.... I just make sure I have the PC booted with Paris already
as I run it on 98 and as soon as they see that I have more explaining :-)
Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>Oh geez, that reminds me of a very uncomfortable session moment years back.
>I'd been doing quite a few co-productions with Shawn Pierce, a lovely cat
>and a great producer; I generally handled the musical side and he handled
>the technical side and we split the difference in the middle.
>
>We had a project where "everything at once, in the same room, with the
>engineer and producer and all" was a vibe we wanted to experiment with.
With
>some trepidation (I don't have outside producers working in my workspace
>very often) - and although we had access to lots of good rooms - I'd
>convinced him my own space and PARIS were worth a shot. So the day came
and
>we set up and started getting sounds, and Shawn popped the headphones on
and
>off a few times, with mounting concern, and said - "I know what this
>system's *supposed* to do - but put the cans on one ear. I *hear* latency,
>and that's not going to be acceptable".
>
>Although I'd never heard a scrap of latency in PARIS before, I was certainly
>hearing some "soundcard"-type latency now - not awful but not helpful for
>tracking, and certainly not what I'd confidently represented PARIS as
>having. For a sickening minute I was quite convinced that Shawn had simply
>spotted something that had always been there but that I'd simply never
>noticed before - something threatening to be a session-stopper - and I was
>feeling sick to my stomach.
>
>And then the drummer said "Strange, I've got no latency over here", and
with
>curiosity we stepped over towards the drums trailing our headphone cables,
>and as we got closer the perceived latency dropped in our headphones until
>standing next to the drums it was gone.
>
>Turned out that neither of us had done a ton of "in the room with the band"
>tracking. Shawn's ears were completely correct, but there was no latency
in
>PARIS; what we hadn't taken into account was the 20 feet of physical
>separation between the mix position and the drums, which delayed their
>acoustic sound over by the mixing board. Far from *PARIS* having latency,
>the *real* sound of the drums in the room was arriving later than PARIS'
>50-foot-round-trip monitoring; the PARIS signal was arriving on time and
we
>were hearing the latency of the "real world".
>
>The session continued - with new respect for PARIS.
>
>- Kerry
>
>On 8/7/08 3:05 PM, in article 489b7406@linux, "geo" <nlyn@execpc.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I continue to make records with Paris. No suitable replacement except
>> perhaps PTs. I record 16 tracks live and require no latency que mixes.
Last
>> week had a Steinberg guy in here...yawning at my rig until I told him
the
>> que mix was POST Paris . That dropped his jaw Ha Ha. Good fun with 10
year
>> old gear...tribute to the creators.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Geo
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: A Little PARIS Research - Size of user community [message #100302 is a reply to message #99902] |
Sat, 13 September 2008 01:47 |
Yasser Shaaban
Messages: 30
Registered: October 2005
|
Member |
|
|
And I am to be added to the Paris community
Thanks alot
"Clay" <clayinsc@sc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>Kerry,
>You can add 2 more users to your count; myself and a friend (both in the
>Columbia,SC area) still use Paris. Hope this helps.
>
>Clay
>
>Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>>With current updates - list stands at 136. It would have been 135, but
I
>>just realized I'd omitted my own name. Duh.
>>
>>- Kerry
>>
>>
>>On 7/3/08 12:58 PM, in article C4927D67.B2A4%kg@kerrygalloway.com, "Kerry
>>Galloway" <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi folks. Hereıs one of a series of updates/info posts (and - brace
>>> yourselves - some action requests) which Iıll be putting in separate
posts.
>>>
>>> Iıve been working on some basic infrastructure that I reckon we need
to
>>> support any forward motion. Blog/wiki/networking/development rig are
>>> certainly part of that infrastructure but we also had a serious need
for
>>> hard info - things like current community size and composition etc. If
>we
>>> want to tell outside developers who we are as a community, we better
know
>>> who we are first, and I had the suspicion that my "spitball" guesstimates
>>> weren't doing us much justice.
>>>
>>> Now, Iım not trained in data collection and analysis but I do fine at
>>> research and detective work, and what I lack in skills I cheerfully
>>> supplement with grunt work. I wanted to share one of the results of that
>>> basic research with you all.
>>>
>>> Iıve seen the question ³how big is the PARIS community?² asked several
>times
>>> before. As far as I know we never got a definitive answer. We've now
got
>a
>>> fairly firm "floor" for the size of the current PARIS user community.
>It
>>> stands at an eye-opening (at least to me) 125 current users - and rising,
>so
>>> if anything thatıs an undercount. Mike Audet and I have independently
>come
>>> to an estimate of the user community worldwide (including PARIS users
>who
>>> don't come to the NG) as being in the vicinity of a healthy 400 current
>>> users.
>>>
>>> Surprised? Not bad for eight years after discontinuation!
>>>
>>> Iıll be clear - this is not derived from the number of NG posters - itıs
>>> derived from a fairly accurate hand count of the number of currently
active
>>> PARIS *users* that Iıve identified on the NG over the last ten months,
>and
>>> is distinct from the size of the NG community itself. We needed that
info
>>> broken out separately because while some developments (say the ability
>to
>>> open PARIS .ppjs without a PARIS rig) might indeed be of interest to
>>> ex-PARIS users too (who might still retain archives in .ppj format),
other
>>> developments (say drivers) would really only be of interest to those
who
>>> still have and use PARIS hardware.
>>>
>>> To gather those numbers I ruled out the past approach of polls and censuses;
>>> theyıre useful for getting a ³general sense of the community² but theyıre
>>> unreliable. I simply scanned through the NG posts going back an arbitrary
>>> length of time (10 months) and noted every poster I could in that recent
>>> timespan who indicated that theyıre current users (self-identification,
>>> posting PARIS-specific tech support questions, specific error code
>>> questions, etc). I put the info in a database to sort it in different
>ways
>>> so I could pretty confidently eliminate duplicates. It was a bit
>>> labour-intensive but the end result is that Iım fairly confident in that
>>> number as a ³hard floor² the loss of a few users in the intervening
>months
>>> would be counterbalanced by the certainty of undercount.
>>>
>>> Iıll finish with a general observation - ³what we were² or ³what we might
>>> once have been² has some minor academic/historical interest to me, but
>as a
>>> "minority case" - a returning user after years of absence - I naturally
>come
>>> to it from the perspective of ³where we are right now². Iım not interested
>>> in ³might have beens² any more - Iım interested in what we might achieve
>>> starting from here and going forward.
>>>
>>> So while it's true we were larger long ago, a hard floor of 125 real
users
>>> is a good strong number, an excellent number, for aficionado-driven efforts
>>> for a discontinued niche market DAW to go forward with. Itıs much larger
>>> than some aficionado groups for other pieces of discontinued technology,
>and
>>> some of those smaller groups have got quite a lot of very meaningful
work
>>> done. And 400 users worldwide may not be Nuendo numbers but for small
>>> developers itıs nothing to sneeze at.
>>>
>>> Hope this is of interest!
>>>
>>> - Kerry
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
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