Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Explaining Vertex delay comp to avoid misunderstandings !!
| Explaining Vertex delay comp to avoid misunderstandings !! [message #78901] |
Wed, 24 January 2007 00:48  |
Dimitrios
Messages: 1056
Registered: August 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi,
After Deej's post that UAD1 delay compensator can do the saem as Vertex I
have to make a public paris statement about Vertex !
Now vertex is (will be :)) a true delay compensator as opposed to UAD1 delay
compensator which is a fake one like the free Latency compensator vst plugin.
VERTEX is a clever little beast.
Lets say upi have 64 Paris audio tracks.
You make a default project (will take you 5 min) where you open vertex on
every Paris audio track, same applies for 2,3,4,...8 Paris eds cards owners,.
Vertex can have up to 128 instances loaded at once which is exactly the maximum
Paris audio tracks allowed !
Now after saving this as your default project you can open it and try a scenario
like the following.
Lets say that your drumtracks are audio track 1 = kick , 2= snare up, 3 =
snare down, 4= hihat, 5= ride, 6= crash1, 7= crash2, 8= tom1 ,9= tom2, 10=floortom,
11= OH left, 12 = OH Right.
ow you wanna put LA2 on snare drum and ONLY on snare up means track 2.
You go to vertex instance on track 2 and you put the number 16384.
Thats it !
Now ALL your 16/32/48/64/80/96/112/128 Paris audio tracks will GET the 16384
delay automatically !!!
WITH UAD1 delay compensator that UAD1 gives to UAD1 owners works the opposite
!
You have to put on all remaining 127 audio tracks (on a 128 Paris system)
the number 1 !!!!
Thats not an automatic latency compensator !
Now for eds effects let say you put a Parisn eds effect on Tom1 with a lookahead
0.005 which is 230 samples latency.
Now just type 230 on that track and VERTEX JUST asubstracts this number from
the 16384 total latency =16164 which gets this very track !
Now put a LA2 on kick track number 1.
You just ttype the 16384 on audio track 1 vertex instance and what vertex
does is just zero's this tracks latency letting uad1 plugin be the latency
coordinator. STILL toatla latency is not 32768 but 16384 !!
Even if you put numerous waves plugins with 64 samples latency or 230 samples
or whatever still the overall latency wuill not get over 16384 !!!
I think you got the main picture.
Now the fun part (always needed right Deej ?)
Lets say you open uad1 plugins from within Spinaudio wrapper light (FREE)
using fron inside it the FFX4 dx chainer (FREE) and open from within the
uad1 plugins (not Free :))
Now one UAD1 plugin's latency will come down to 4096 samples !!
Four times less that UAD1 wrapped by Fxpansion 3.3 .
Now on the above scenario if you DON'T PUT more than on UAD1 plugin on SAME
audio track, meaning you can put 128 instances of UAD1 plugins if you have
4 uad1 cards and are able to load that much on them you STILL DO NOT PASS
that 4096 total sample latency !!!
Add to that some waves or T-racks and eds effects ADD to that the submix
delay compensatio (12 samples from card1 to card 2 and 2 samples thereafter)
you will normally not exceed the 5000 samples latency overall on a dense
mix.
That is 113 ms overall.
Now if you don't use UAD1 cards you will normally never get passed the 300
samples which is 6-7 ms which is VERY VERY low and automation is not a problem
at all.
Regarding automation though I have made a test with wormhole 32 audio tracks
from Cubase to Paris with a latency of 7500 samples and whenever I was recording
automation in real time the playback was exactly as I recorded it !!
So whats all about that automation thing accoring to audio track's latency
???
I would like to know that !
Hope the above will help understand that now someone is willing to build
something we only were dreaming of , DELAY COMPENSATOR , and we are still
skeptical like if ID is making it :)
We ghave to applause this vertex author and give him all the support needed
BECAUSE we the actual buyers of this vertex will surely ask later for an
update with some enhanced features and we must show that we are not just
4,5 or 6 Paris users outr there interested only.
I ask you to forgive me if someone gets offended by this post as this is
not my intention but things can get better for us Paris users and we may
survive in keeping Paris up to date !
Regards,
Dimitrios
|
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|
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| Re: Explaining Vertex delay comp to avoid misunderstandings !! [message #78902 is a reply to message #78901] |
Wed, 24 January 2007 01:06  |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Dimitrios,
I was meaning that if the Vertex delay compensator doesn't keep the audio
and Paris "NOW" line in sync in the editor, then it would be similar to the
UAD-1 Delaycomp because in either case, with 16000 + sample latency it will
be impossible to use fader automation in Paris relative to what you are
seeing in the editor window as the timeline scrolls. I agree that the
implementation is much better than the UAD-1 Delaycomp, but if the timeline
and sound aren't in sync, it will have the same basic problem as the UAD-1
Delaycomp. Another thing I'm wondering is if we will need to wrap this with
the FXPansion V3.3 in order to use it since Paris VST is poorly implemented.
No big deal there, just curious. Also, this is a VST plugin, right? If Paris
will only allow 64 vst plugs how do 128 instances of this get loaded? .
Maybe I'm a bit rusty on my Paris facts these days and it will allow more,
but like I said, if the timeline in the editor doesn't sync to the sound, it
has the same basic problem as the UAD-1 Delaycomp as far as automation is
concerned when compensating for huge latencies. Hopefully this won't be the
case and I can still see other good uses for it. thanks for your efforts
BTW.
;o)
Deej
"Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote in message news:45b70f43$1@linux...
>
> Hi,
> After Deej's post that UAD1 delay compensator can do the saem as Vertex I
> have to make a public paris statement about Vertex !
> Now vertex is (will be :)) a true delay compensator as opposed to UAD1
> delay
> compensator which is a fake one like the free Latency compensator vst
> plugin.
> VERTEX is a clever little beast.
> Lets say upi have 64 Paris audio tracks.
> You make a default project (will take you 5 min) where you open vertex on
> every Paris audio track, same applies for 2,3,4,...8 Paris eds cards
> owners,.
> Vertex can have up to 128 instances loaded at once which is exactly the
> maximum
> Paris audio tracks allowed !
> Now after saving this as your default project you can open it and try a
> scenario
> like the following.
> Lets say that your drumtracks are audio track 1 = kick , 2= snare up, 3 =
> snare down, 4= hihat, 5= ride, 6= crash1, 7= crash2, 8= tom1 ,9= tom2,
> 10=floortom,
> 11= OH left, 12 = OH Right.
> ow you wanna put LA2 on snare drum and ONLY on snare up means track 2.
> You go to vertex instance on track 2 and you put the number 16384.
> Thats it !
> Now ALL your 16/32/48/64/80/96/112/128 Paris audio tracks will GET the
> 16384
> delay automatically !!!
> WITH UAD1 delay compensator that UAD1 gives to UAD1 owners works the
> opposite
> !
> You have to put on all remaining 127 audio tracks (on a 128 Paris system)
> the number 1 !!!!
> Thats not an automatic latency compensator !
>
> Now for eds effects let say you put a Parisn eds effect on Tom1 with a
> lookahead
> 0.005 which is 230 samples latency.
> Now just type 230 on that track and VERTEX JUST asubstracts this number
> from
> the 16384 total latency =16164 which gets this very track !
> Now put a LA2 on kick track number 1.
> You just ttype the 16384 on audio track 1 vertex instance and what vertex
> does is just zero's this tracks latency letting uad1 plugin be the latency
> coordinator. STILL toatla latency is not 32768 but 16384 !!
> Even if you put numerous waves plugins with 64 samples latency or 230
> samples
> or whatever still the overall latency wuill not get over 16384 !!!
> I think you got the main picture.
> Now the fun part (always needed right Deej ?)
> Lets say you open uad1 plugins from within Spinaudio wrapper light (FREE)
> using fron inside it the FFX4 dx chainer (FREE) and open from within the
> uad1 plugins (not Free :))
> Now one UAD1 plugin's latency will come down to 4096 samples !!
> Four times less that UAD1 wrapped by Fxpansion 3.3 .
> Now on the above scenario if you DON'T PUT more than on UAD1 plugin on
> SAME
> audio track, meaning you can put 128 instances of UAD1 plugins if you have
> 4 uad1 cards and are able to load that much on them you STILL DO NOT PASS
> that 4096 total sample latency !!!
> Add to that some waves or T-racks and eds effects ADD to that the submix
> delay compensatio (12 samples from card1 to card 2 and 2 samples
> thereafter)
> you will normally not exceed the 5000 samples latency overall on a dense
> mix.
> That is 113 ms overall.
> Now if you don't use UAD1 cards you will normally never get passed the 300
> samples which is 6-7 ms which is VERY VERY low and automation is not a
> problem
> at all.
> Regarding automation though I have made a test with wormhole 32 audio
> tracks
> from Cubase to Paris with a latency of 7500 samples and whenever I was
> recording
> automation in real time the playback was exactly as I recorded it !!
> So whats all about that automation thing accoring to audio track's latency
> ???
> I would like to know that !
> Hope the above will help understand that now someone is willing to build
> something we only were dreaming of , DELAY COMPENSATOR , and we are still
> skeptical like if ID is making it :)
> We ghave to applause this vertex author and give him all the support
> needed
> BECAUSE we the actual buyers of this vertex will surely ask later for an
> update with some enhanced features and we must show that we are not just
> 4,5 or 6 Paris users outr there interested only.
> I ask you to forgive me if someone gets offended by this post as this is
> not my intention but things can get better for us Paris users and we may
> survive in keeping Paris up to date !
> Regards,
> Dimitrios
|
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| Re: Explaining Vertex delay comp to avoid misunderstandings !! [message #78903 is a reply to message #78902] |
Wed, 24 January 2007 01:09 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Sorry,
I totally missed the explanation of the Spinaudio wrapper. That addresses a
lot of my questions/concerns..
Thanks,
Deej
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message news:45b721c5$1@linux...
> Dimitrios,
>
> I was meaning that if the Vertex delay compensator doesn't keep the audio
> and Paris "NOW" line in sync in the editor, then it would be similar to
> the UAD-1 Delaycomp because in either case, with 16000 + sample latency it
> will be impossible to use fader automation in Paris relative to what you
> are seeing in the editor window as the timeline scrolls. I agree that the
> implementation is much better than the UAD-1 Delaycomp, but if the
> timeline and sound aren't in sync, it will have the same basic problem as
> the UAD-1 Delaycomp. Another thing I'm wondering is if we will need to
> wrap this with the FXPansion V3.3 in order to use it since Paris VST is
> poorly implemented. No big deal there, just curious. Also, this is a VST
> plugin, right? If Paris will only allow 64 vst plugs how do 128 instances
> of this get loaded? . Maybe I'm a bit rusty on my Paris facts these days
> and it will allow more, but like I said, if the timeline in the editor
> doesn't sync to the sound, it has the same basic problem as the UAD-1
> Delaycomp as far as automation is concerned when compensating for huge
> latencies. Hopefully this won't be the case and I can still see other good
> uses for it. thanks for your efforts BTW.
>
> ;o)
>
> Deej
>
>
>
> "Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote in message news:45b70f43$1@linux...
>>
>> Hi,
>> After Deej's post that UAD1 delay compensator can do the saem as Vertex I
>> have to make a public paris statement about Vertex !
>> Now vertex is (will be :)) a true delay compensator as opposed to UAD1
>> delay
>> compensator which is a fake one like the free Latency compensator vst
>> plugin.
>> VERTEX is a clever little beast.
>> Lets say upi have 64 Paris audio tracks.
>> You make a default project (will take you 5 min) where you open vertex on
>> every Paris audio track, same applies for 2,3,4,...8 Paris eds cards
>> owners,.
>> Vertex can have up to 128 instances loaded at once which is exactly the
>> maximum
>> Paris audio tracks allowed !
>> Now after saving this as your default project you can open it and try a
>> scenario
>> like the following.
>> Lets say that your drumtracks are audio track 1 = kick , 2= snare up, 3 =
>> snare down, 4= hihat, 5= ride, 6= crash1, 7= crash2, 8= tom1 ,9= tom2,
>> 10=floortom,
>> 11= OH left, 12 = OH Right.
>> ow you wanna put LA2 on snare drum and ONLY on snare up means track 2.
>> You go to vertex instance on track 2 and you put the number 16384.
>> Thats it !
>> Now ALL your 16/32/48/64/80/96/112/128 Paris audio tracks will GET the
>> 16384
>> delay automatically !!!
>> WITH UAD1 delay compensator that UAD1 gives to UAD1 owners works the
>> opposite
>> !
>> You have to put on all remaining 127 audio tracks (on a 128 Paris system)
>> the number 1 !!!!
>> Thats not an automatic latency compensator !
>>
>> Now for eds effects let say you put a Parisn eds effect on Tom1 with a
>> lookahead
>> 0.005 which is 230 samples latency.
>> Now just type 230 on that track and VERTEX JUST asubstracts this number
>> from
>> the 16384 total latency =16164 which gets this very track !
>> Now put a LA2 on kick track number 1.
>> You just ttype the 16384 on audio track 1 vertex instance and what vertex
>> does is just zero's this tracks latency letting uad1 plugin be the
>> latency
>> coordinator. STILL toatla latency is not 32768 but 16384 !!
>> Even if you put numerous waves plugins with 64 samples latency or 230
>> samples
>> or whatever still the overall latency wuill not get over 16384 !!!
>> I think you got the main picture.
>> Now the fun part (always needed right Deej ?)
>> Lets say you open uad1 plugins from within Spinaudio wrapper light (FREE)
>> using fron inside it the FFX4 dx chainer (FREE) and open from within the
>> uad1 plugins (not Free :))
>> Now one UAD1 plugin's latency will come down to 4096 samples !!
>> Four times less that UAD1 wrapped by Fxpansion 3.3 .
>> Now on the above scenario if you DON'T PUT more than on UAD1 plugin on
>> SAME
>> audio track, meaning you can put 128 instances of UAD1 plugins if you
>> have
>> 4 uad1 cards and are able to load that much on them you STILL DO NOT PASS
>> that 4096 total sample latency !!!
>> Add to that some waves or T-racks and eds effects ADD to that the submix
>> delay compensatio (12 samples from card1 to card 2 and 2 samples
>> thereafter)
>> you will normally not exceed the 5000 samples latency overall on a dense
>> mix.
>> That is 113 ms overall.
>> Now if you don't use UAD1 cards you will normally never get passed the
>> 300
>> samples which is 6-7 ms which is VERY VERY low and automation is not a
>> problem
>> at all.
>> Regarding automation though I have made a test with wormhole 32 audio
>> tracks
>> from Cubase to Paris with a latency of 7500 samples and whenever I was
>> recording
>> automation in real time the playback was exactly as I recorded it !!
>> So whats all about that automation thing accoring to audio track's
>> latency
>> ???
>> I would like to know that !
>> Hope the above will help understand that now someone is willing to build
>> something we only were dreaming of , DELAY COMPENSATOR , and we are still
>> skeptical like if ID is making it :)
>> We ghave to applause this vertex author and give him all the support
>> needed
>> BECAUSE we the actual buyers of this vertex will surely ask later for an
>> update with some enhanced features and we must show that we are not just
>> 4,5 or 6 Paris users outr there interested only.
>> I ask you to forgive me if someone gets offended by this post as this is
>> not my intention but things can get better for us Paris users and we may
>> survive in keeping Paris up to date !
>> Regards,
>> Dimitrios
>
>
|
|
|
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| Re: Explaining Vertex delay comp to avoid misunderstandings !! [message #78907 is a reply to message #78903] |
Wed, 24 January 2007 03:03 |
Dimitrios
Messages: 1056
Registered: August 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Dear DJ,
Regarding VST limit of 64 you are right.
You will use vertex as DX from a wrapper like chainer, FXpansion .
Remember DX plugins have NOT the 64 limit.
I have checked that back then...
Deej,
can you please explain when I was testing wormhole with a latency of 7500
samples I could exactly record automation realtime using the mixer's fader
and when played back the automation was exactly where it should.
Now is there any difference this automation now line you are reffering to
?
I would like to know.
Regards,
Dimitrios
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>Sorry,
>
>I totally missed the explanation of the Spinaudio wrapper. That addresses
a
>lot of my questions/concerns..
>
>Thanks,
>Deej
>
>"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message news:45b721c5$1@linux...
>> Dimitrios,
>>
>> I was meaning that if the Vertex delay compensator doesn't keep the audio
>> and Paris "NOW" line in sync in the editor, then it would be similar to
>> the UAD-1 Delaycomp because in either case, with 16000 + sample latency
it
>> will be impossible to use fader automation in Paris relative to what you
>> are seeing in the editor window as the timeline scrolls. I agree that
the
>> implementation is much better than the UAD-1 Delaycomp, but if the
>> timeline and sound aren't in sync, it will have the same basic problem
as
>> the UAD-1 Delaycomp. Another thing I'm wondering is if we will need to
>> wrap this with the FXPansion V3.3 in order to use it since Paris VST is
>> poorly implemented. No big deal there, just curious. Also, this is a VST
>> plugin, right? If Paris will only allow 64 vst plugs how do 128 instances
>> of this get loaded? . Maybe I'm a bit rusty on my Paris facts these days
>> and it will allow more, but like I said, if the timeline in the editor
>> doesn't sync to the sound, it has the same basic problem as the UAD-1
>> Delaycomp as far as automation is concerned when compensating for huge
>> latencies. Hopefully this won't be the case and I can still see other
good
>> uses for it. thanks for your efforts BTW.
>>
>> ;o)
>>
>> Deej
>>
>>
>>
>> "Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote in message news:45b70f43$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> After Deej's post that UAD1 delay compensator can do the saem as Vertex
I
>>> have to make a public paris statement about Vertex !
>>> Now vertex is (will be :)) a true delay compensator as opposed to UAD1
>>> delay
>>> compensator which is a fake one like the free Latency compensator vst
>>> plugin.
>>> VERTEX is a clever little beast.
>>> Lets say upi have 64 Paris audio tracks.
>>> You make a default project (will take you 5 min) where you open vertex
on
>>> every Paris audio track, same applies for 2,3,4,...8 Paris eds cards
>>> owners,.
>>> Vertex can have up to 128 instances loaded at once which is exactly the
>>> maximum
>>> Paris audio tracks allowed !
>>> Now after saving this as your default project you can open it and try
a
>>> scenario
>>> like the following.
>>> Lets say that your drumtracks are audio track 1 = kick , 2= snare up,
3 =
>>> snare down, 4= hihat, 5= ride, 6= crash1, 7= crash2, 8= tom1 ,9= tom2,
>>> 10=floortom,
>>> 11= OH left, 12 = OH Right.
>>> ow you wanna put LA2 on snare drum and ONLY on snare up means track 2.
>>> You go to vertex instance on track 2 and you put the number 16384.
>>> Thats it !
>>> Now ALL your 16/32/48/64/80/96/112/128 Paris audio tracks will GET the
>>> 16384
>>> delay automatically !!!
>>> WITH UAD1 delay compensator that UAD1 gives to UAD1 owners works the
>>> opposite
>>> !
>>> You have to put on all remaining 127 audio tracks (on a 128 Paris system)
>>> the number 1 !!!!
>>> Thats not an automatic latency compensator !
>>>
>>> Now for eds effects let say you put a Parisn eds effect on Tom1 with
a
>>> lookahead
>>> 0.005 which is 230 samples latency.
>>> Now just type 230 on that track and VERTEX JUST asubstracts this number
>>> from
>>> the 16384 total latency =16164 which gets this very track !
>>> Now put a LA2 on kick track number 1.
>>> You just ttype the 16384 on audio track 1 vertex instance and what vertex
>>> does is just zero's this tracks latency letting uad1 plugin be the
>>> latency
>>> coordinator. STILL toatla latency is not 32768 but 16384 !!
>>> Even if you put numerous waves plugins with 64 samples latency or 230
>>> samples
>>> or whatever still the overall latency wuill not get over 16384 !!!
>>> I think you got the main picture.
>>> Now the fun part (always needed right Deej ?)
>>> Lets say you open uad1 plugins from within Spinaudio wrapper light (FREE)
>>> using fron inside it the FFX4 dx chainer (FREE) and open from within
the
>>> uad1 plugins (not Free :))
>>> Now one UAD1 plugin's latency will come down to 4096 samples !!
>>> Four times less that UAD1 wrapped by Fxpansion 3.3 .
>>> Now on the above scenario if you DON'T PUT more than on UAD1 plugin on
>>> SAME
>>> audio track, meaning you can put 128 instances of UAD1 plugins if you
>>> have
>>> 4 uad1 cards and are able to load that much on them you STILL DO NOT
PASS
>>> that 4096 total sample latency !!!
>>> Add to that some waves or T-racks and eds effects ADD to that the submix
>>> delay compensatio (12 samples from card1 to card 2 and 2 samples
>>> thereafter)
>>> you will normally not exceed the 5000 samples latency overall on a dense
>>> mix.
>>> That is 113 ms overall.
>>> Now if you don't use UAD1 cards you will normally never get passed the
>>> 300
>>> samples which is 6-7 ms which is VERY VERY low and automation is not
a
>>> problem
>>> at all.
>>> Regarding automation though I have made a test with wormhole 32 audio
>>> tracks
>>> from Cubase to Paris with a latency of 7500 samples and whenever I was
>>> recording
>>> automation in real time the playback was exactly as I recorded it !!
>>> So whats all about that automation thing accoring to audio track's
>>> latency
>>> ???
>>> I would like to know that !
>>> Hope the above will help understand that now someone is willing to build
>>> something we only were dreaming of , DELAY COMPENSATOR , and we are still
>>> skeptical like if ID is making it :)
>>> We ghave to applause this vertex author and give him all the support
>>> needed
>>> BECAUSE we the actual buyers of this vertex will surely ask later for
an
>>> update with some enhanced features and we must show that we are not just
>>> 4,5 or 6 Paris users outr there interested only.
>>> I ask you to forgive me if someone gets offended by this post as this
is
>>> not my intention but things can get better for us Paris users and we
may
>>> survive in keeping Paris up to date !
>>> Regards,
>>> Dimitrios
>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
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| Re: Explaining Vertex delay comp to avoid misunderstandings !! [message #78921 is a reply to message #78901] |
Wed, 24 January 2007 12:21 |
Jon Jiles
Messages: 90
Registered: November 2005
|
Member |
|
|
Hi Dimitrios,
I just purchased Faderworks and sent Vertex an email re: the Latency compensator.
Once again, thanks for the efforts you make and insight you bring on our
behalf!!!
Cheers,
Jon
"Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote:
>
>Hi,
>After Deej's post that UAD1 delay compensator can do the saem as Vertex
I
>have to make a public paris statement about Vertex !
>Now vertex is (will be :)) a true delay compensator as opposed to UAD1 delay
>compensator which is a fake one like the free Latency compensator vst plugin.
>VERTEX is a clever little beast.
>Lets say upi have 64 Paris audio tracks.
>You make a default project (will take you 5 min) where you open vertex on
>every Paris audio track, same applies for 2,3,4,...8 Paris eds cards owners,.
>Vertex can have up to 128 instances loaded at once which is exactly the
maximum
>Paris audio tracks allowed !
>Now after saving this as your default project you can open it and try a
scenario
>like the following.
>Lets say that your drumtracks are audio track 1 = kick , 2= snare up, 3
=
>snare down, 4= hihat, 5= ride, 6= crash1, 7= crash2, 8= tom1 ,9= tom2, 10=floortom,
>11= OH left, 12 = OH Right.
>ow you wanna put LA2 on snare drum and ONLY on snare up means track 2.
>You go to vertex instance on track 2 and you put the number 16384.
>Thats it !
>Now ALL your 16/32/48/64/80/96/112/128 Paris audio tracks will GET the 16384
>delay automatically !!!
>WITH UAD1 delay compensator that UAD1 gives to UAD1 owners works the opposite
>!
>You have to put on all remaining 127 audio tracks (on a 128 Paris system)
>the number 1 !!!!
>Thats not an automatic latency compensator !
>
>Now for eds effects let say you put a Parisn eds effect on Tom1 with a lookahead
>0.005 which is 230 samples latency.
>Now just type 230 on that track and VERTEX JUST asubstracts this number
from
>the 16384 total latency =16164 which gets this very track !
>Now put a LA2 on kick track number 1.
>You just ttype the 16384 on audio track 1 vertex instance and what vertex
>does is just zero's this tracks latency letting uad1 plugin be the latency
>coordinator. STILL toatla latency is not 32768 but 16384 !!
>Even if you put numerous waves plugins with 64 samples latency or 230 samples
>or whatever still the overall latency wuill not get over 16384 !!!
>I think you got the main picture.
>Now the fun part (always needed right Deej ?)
>Lets say you open uad1 plugins from within Spinaudio wrapper light (FREE)
>using fron inside it the FFX4 dx chainer (FREE) and open from within the
>uad1 plugins (not Free :))
>Now one UAD1 plugin's latency will come down to 4096 samples !!
>Four times less that UAD1 wrapped by Fxpansion 3.3 .
>Now on the above scenario if you DON'T PUT more than on UAD1 plugin on SAME
>audio track, meaning you can put 128 instances of UAD1 plugins if you have
>4 uad1 cards and are able to load that much on them you STILL DO NOT PASS
>that 4096 total sample latency !!!
>Add to that some waves or T-racks and eds effects ADD to that the submix
>delay compensatio (12 samples from card1 to card 2 and 2 samples thereafter)
>you will normally not exceed the 5000 samples latency overall on a dense
>mix.
>That is 113 ms overall.
>Now if you don't use UAD1 cards you will normally never get passed the 300
>samples which is 6-7 ms which is VERY VERY low and automation is not a problem
>at all.
>Regarding automation though I have made a test with wormhole 32 audio tracks
>from Cubase to Paris with a latency of 7500 samples and whenever I was recording
>automation in real time the playback was exactly as I recorded it !!
>So whats all about that automation thing accoring to audio track's latency
>???
>I would like to know that !
>Hope the above will help understand that now someone is willing to build
>something we only were dreaming of , DELAY COMPENSATOR , and we are still
>skeptical like if ID is making it :)
>We ghave to applause this vertex author and give him all the support needed
>BECAUSE we the actual buyers of this vertex will surely ask later for an
>update with some enhanced features and we must show that we are not just
>4,5 or 6 Paris users outr there interested only.
>I ask you to forgive me if someone gets offended by this post as this is
>not my intention but things can get better for us Paris users and we may
>survive in keeping Paris up to date !
>Regards,
>Dimitrios
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| Re: Explaining Vertex delay comp to avoid misunderstandings !! [message #78923 is a reply to message #78921] |
Wed, 24 January 2007 12:32 |
Dimitrios
Messages: 1056
Registered: August 2005
|
Senior Member |
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Hey Jon,
Thank you for your kind words.
I feel happy when you feel happy too !
I had some emails with Peter the author.
he will be sending me a beta (just for me :) to try it in couple of days
to see if compensator works just fine !
It will have a dynamic allocation so the user can allocate whatever the highest
possible latency will be neede !
Best regards,
Dimitrios
"Jon Jiles" <nanaheyhey@no.com> wrote:
>
>Hi Dimitrios,
>
>I just purchased Faderworks and sent Vertex an email re: the Latency compensator.
>
>Once again, thanks for the efforts you make and insight you bring on our
>behalf!!!
>
>Cheers,
>Jon
>
>"Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote:
>>
>>Hi,
>>After Deej's post that UAD1 delay compensator can do the saem as Vertex
>I
>>have to make a public paris statement about Vertex !
>>Now vertex is (will be :)) a true delay compensator as opposed to UAD1
delay
>>compensator which is a fake one like the free Latency compensator vst plugin.
>>VERTEX is a clever little beast.
>>Lets say upi have 64 Paris audio tracks.
>>You make a default project (will take you 5 min) where you open vertex
on
>>every Paris audio track, same applies for 2,3,4,...8 Paris eds cards owners,.
>>Vertex can have up to 128 instances loaded at once which is exactly the
>maximum
>>Paris audio tracks allowed !
>>Now after saving this as your default project you can open it and try a
>scenario
>>like the following.
>>Lets say that your drumtracks are audio track 1 = kick , 2= snare up, 3
>=
>>snare down, 4= hihat, 5= ride, 6= crash1, 7= crash2, 8= tom1 ,9= tom2,
10=floortom,
>>11= OH left, 12 = OH Right.
>>ow you wanna put LA2 on snare drum and ONLY on snare up means track 2.
>>You go to vertex instance on track 2 and you put the number 16384.
>>Thats it !
>>Now ALL your 16/32/48/64/80/96/112/128 Paris audio tracks will GET the
16384
>>delay automatically !!!
>>WITH UAD1 delay compensator that UAD1 gives to UAD1 owners works the opposite
>>!
>>You have to put on all remaining 127 audio tracks (on a 128 Paris system)
>>the number 1 !!!!
>>Thats not an automatic latency compensator !
>>
>>Now for eds effects let say you put a Parisn eds effect on Tom1 with a
lookahead
>>0.005 which is 230 samples latency.
>>Now just type 230 on that track and VERTEX JUST asubstracts this number
>from
>>the 16384 total latency =16164 which gets this very track !
>>Now put a LA2 on kick track number 1.
>>You just ttype the 16384 on audio track 1 vertex instance and what vertex
>>does is just zero's this tracks latency letting uad1 plugin be the latency
>>coordinator. STILL toatla latency is not 32768 but 16384 !!
>>Even if you put numerous waves plugins with 64 samples latency or 230 samples
>>or whatever still the overall latency wuill not get over 16384 !!!
>>I think you got the main picture.
>>Now the fun part (always needed right Deej ?)
>>Lets say you open uad1 plugins from within Spinaudio wrapper light (FREE)
>>using fron inside it the FFX4 dx chainer (FREE) and open from within the
>>uad1 plugins (not Free :))
>>Now one UAD1 plugin's latency will come down to 4096 samples !!
>>Four times less that UAD1 wrapped by Fxpansion 3.3 .
>>Now on the above scenario if you DON'T PUT more than on UAD1 plugin on
SAME
>>audio track, meaning you can put 128 instances of UAD1 plugins if you have
>>4 uad1 cards and are able to load that much on them you STILL DO NOT PASS
>>that 4096 total sample latency !!!
>>Add to that some waves or T-racks and eds effects ADD to that the submix
>>delay compensatio (12 samples from card1 to card 2 and 2 samples thereafter)
>>you will normally not exceed the 5000 samples latency overall on a dense
>>mix.
>>That is 113 ms overall.
>>Now if you don't use UAD1 cards you will normally never get passed the
300
>>samples which is 6-7 ms which is VERY VERY low and automation is not a
problem
>>at all.
>>Regarding automation though I have made a test with wormhole 32 audio tracks
>>from Cubase to Paris with a latency of 7500 samples and whenever I was
recording
>>automation in real time the playback was exactly as I recorded it !!
>>So whats all about that automation thing accoring to audio track's latency
>>???
>>I would like to know that !
>>Hope the above will help understand that now someone is willing to build
>>something we only were dreaming of , DELAY COMPENSATOR , and we are still
>>skeptical like if ID is making it :)
>>We ghave to applause this vertex author and give him all the support needed
>>BECAUSE we the actual buyers of this vertex will surely ask later for an
>>update with some enhanced features and we must show that we are not just
>>4,5 or 6 Paris users outr there interested only.
>>I ask you to forgive me if someone gets offended by this post as this is
>>not my intention but things can get better for us Paris users and we may
>>survive in keeping Paris up to date !
>>Regards,
>>Dimitrios
>
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