Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Intimate bassy vocals???
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| Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79758 is a reply to message #79756] |
Fri, 09 February 2007 09:14   |
Nil
Messages: 245
Registered: March 2007
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Senior Member |
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"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>K... so my AKG 414 with the Anteres mic modeler set to U-47 will do the
>trick???
As long as that mic model includes rolling off some of the 414's
high end, it might.
Actually, I shouldn'tve been so glib - you can get that sound
without a u-47, of course, just make sure the mic gets worked in
close, like Gene said, use a fairly neutral-sounding LDC (like
NOT a C-1), set on something other than omni, and the cleanest
preamp you have (since you'll be in real close - to capture the
detail)... make sure you're paying attention for where
the optimal distance for the singer should be...you get in TOO
close, and you get too many mouth noises; too far & you're not
taking advantage of the promximity effect - I disagree with Gene
on the compression, though - you don't always need it... some
mics just kinda sound that way when worked up-close & personal
like that. Dunno what you've got for mics, but if you've got a
handful of LDCs, you should be able to find one that works.
Neil
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| Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79763 is a reply to message #79758] |
Fri, 09 February 2007 10:08 |
gene lennon
Messages: 565
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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I’m not saying you cant get a similar sound using other methods, I saying
that what I described was, and is the exact method used on may of these recordings.
Graham is correct to point out that in the very early recordings, Sinatra
liked the RCA ribbons and many people continue to use ribbons for this today,
but the LDC is still more common.
The R37 trick has been a secret weapon for may producers but you also need
to get the rest of the LA-2A setting just right.
Gene
P.S. I have used a 414 successfully to get this sound, specifically my C
414 B-ULS, but the U-47 is a completely different animal.
"Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>K... so my AKG 414 with the Anteres mic modeler set to U-47 will do the
>
>>trick???
>
>As long as that mic model includes rolling off some of the 414's
>high end, it might.
>
>Actually, I shouldn'tve been so glib - you can get that sound
>without a u-47, of course, just make sure the mic gets worked in
>close, like Gene said, use a fairly neutral-sounding LDC (like
>NOT a C-1), set on something other than omni, and the cleanest
>preamp you have (since you'll be in real close - to capture the
>detail)... make sure you're paying attention for where
>the optimal distance for the singer should be...you get in TOO
>close, and you get too many mouth noises; too far & you're not
>taking advantage of the promximity effect - I disagree with Gene
>on the compression, though - you don't always need it... some
>mics just kinda sound that way when worked up-close & personal
>like that. Dunno what you've got for mics, but if you've got a
>handful of LDCs, you should be able to find one that works.
>
>Neil
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| Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79765 is a reply to message #79763] |
Fri, 09 February 2007 09:24 |
brandon[2]
Messages: 380
Registered: June 2006
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Senior Member |
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Here is a link to the song I was refereing to:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B00005LNAS001005/r ef=mu_sam_wma_001_005/104-4024696-4499911
--
Thanks,
Brandon
"Gene Lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:45ccaa7a$1@linux...
>
> I'm not saying you cant get a similar sound using other methods, I saying
> that what I described was, and is the exact method used on may of these
> recordings.
> Graham is correct to point out that in the very early recordings, Sinatra
> liked the RCA ribbons and many people continue to use ribbons for this
> today,
> but the LDC is still more common.
> The R37 trick has been a secret weapon for may producers but you also need
> to get the rest of the LA-2A setting just right.
>
> Gene
>
> P.S. I have used a 414 successfully to get this sound, specifically my C
> 414 B-ULS, but the U-47 is a completely different animal.
>
>
> "Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>
>>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>>K... so my AKG 414 with the Anteres mic modeler set to U-47 will do the
>>
>>>trick???
>>
>>As long as that mic model includes rolling off some of the 414's
>>high end, it might.
>>
>>Actually, I shouldn'tve been so glib - you can get that sound
>>without a u-47, of course, just make sure the mic gets worked in
>>close, like Gene said, use a fairly neutral-sounding LDC (like
>>NOT a C-1), set on something other than omni, and the cleanest
>>preamp you have (since you'll be in real close - to capture the
>>detail)... make sure you're paying attention for where
>>the optimal distance for the singer should be...you get in TOO
>>close, and you get too many mouth noises; too far & you're not
>>taking advantage of the promximity effect - I disagree with Gene
>>on the compression, though - you don't always need it... some
>>mics just kinda sound that way when worked up-close & personal
>>like that. Dunno what you've got for mics, but if you've got a
>>handful of LDCs, you should be able to find one that works.
>>
>>Neil
>
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| Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79766 is a reply to message #79765] |
Fri, 09 February 2007 09:25 |
brandon[2]
Messages: 380
Registered: June 2006
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Senior Member |
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http://www.amazon.com/Austin-Rhythm-Christmas-Various-Artist s/dp/B00005LNAS/sr=1-12/qid=1171041756/ref=sr_1_12/104-40246 96-4499911?ie=UTF8&s=music
That is Paul Ray.
--
Thanks,
Brandon
"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:45ccaea4$1@linux...
> Here is a link to the song I was refereing to:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B00005LNAS001005/r ef=mu_sam_wma_001_005/104-4024696-4499911
>
>
> --
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon
>
>
>
>
> "Gene Lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote in message
> news:45ccaa7a$1@linux...
>>
>> I'm not saying you cant get a similar sound using other methods, I saying
>> that what I described was, and is the exact method used on may of these
>> recordings.
>> Graham is correct to point out that in the very early recordings, Sinatra
>> liked the RCA ribbons and many people continue to use ribbons for this
>> today,
>> but the LDC is still more common.
>> The R37 trick has been a secret weapon for may producers but you also
>> need
>> to get the rest of the LA-2A setting just right.
>>
>> Gene
>>
>> P.S. I have used a 414 successfully to get this sound, specifically my C
>> 414 B-ULS, but the U-47 is a completely different animal.
>>
>>
>> "Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>>>K... so my AKG 414 with the Anteres mic modeler set to U-47 will do the
>>>
>>>>trick???
>>>
>>>As long as that mic model includes rolling off some of the 414's
>>>high end, it might.
>>>
>>>Actually, I shouldn'tve been so glib - you can get that sound
>>>without a u-47, of course, just make sure the mic gets worked in
>>>close, like Gene said, use a fairly neutral-sounding LDC (like
>>>NOT a C-1), set on something other than omni, and the cleanest
>>>preamp you have (since you'll be in real close - to capture the
>>>detail)... make sure you're paying attention for where
>>>the optimal distance for the singer should be...you get in TOO
>>>close, and you get too many mouth noises; too far & you're not
>>>taking advantage of the promximity effect - I disagree with Gene
>>>on the compression, though - you don't always need it... some
>>>mics just kinda sound that way when worked up-close & personal
>>>like that. Dunno what you've got for mics, but if you've got a
>>>handful of LDCs, you should be able to find one that works.
>>>
>>>Neil
>>
>
>
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| Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79768 is a reply to message #79766] |
Fri, 09 February 2007 09:49 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
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Senior Member |
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Hmmmm......I might have been in the studio for that recording. I was present
at a couple of these old Christmas sessions back in the mid-late '90's at
Bee Creek Studios and Paul Ray was there. IIRC, the mic was a Neumann TLM
193 through either the preamp on a modified TAC Matchless console or the
preamp would have been the old Demeter VTMP-2 preamp that was modded by
Larry Seyer that I bought out of this studio and still have here in my rack.
In either case, the vocal was processed by a Tube Tech CL1 . If it's the
same session, this would have been recorded to either an MCI 1" 8 track or
an Otari MTR90 2" 24 track with Dolby SR and mixed to the MCI JH-110 that I
also bought out of that studio and eventually sold to Andy Salamone
(Cactusfire) when his studio was in Taos. I think Parisite Craig Mitchell
now owns that deck.
The long and winding gear road...............
;o)
"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:45ccaeef@linux...
> http://www.amazon.com/Austin-Rhythm-Christmas-Various-Artist s/dp/B00005LNAS/sr=1-12/qid=1171041756/ref=sr_1_12/104-40246 96-4499911?ie=UTF8&s=music
>
> That is Paul Ray.
>
>
> --
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon
>
>
>
> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:45ccaea4$1@linux...
>> Here is a link to the song I was refereing to:
>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B00005LNAS001005/r ef=mu_sam_wma_001_005/104-4024696-4499911
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Gene Lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote in message
>> news:45ccaa7a$1@linux...
>>>
>>> I'm not saying you cant get a similar sound using other methods, I
>>> saying
>>> that what I described was, and is the exact method used on may of these
>>> recordings.
>>> Graham is correct to point out that in the very early recordings,
>>> Sinatra
>>> liked the RCA ribbons and many people continue to use ribbons for this
>>> today,
>>> but the LDC is still more common.
>>> The R37 trick has been a secret weapon for may producers but you also
>>> need
>>> to get the rest of the LA-2A setting just right.
>>>
>>> Gene
>>>
>>> P.S. I have used a 414 successfully to get this sound, specifically my C
>>> 414 B-ULS, but the U-47 is a completely different animal.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>>>>K... so my AKG 414 with the Anteres mic modeler set to U-47 will do the
>>>>
>>>>>trick???
>>>>
>>>>As long as that mic model includes rolling off some of the 414's
>>>>high end, it might.
>>>>
>>>>Actually, I shouldn'tve been so glib - you can get that sound
>>>>without a u-47, of course, just make sure the mic gets worked in
>>>>close, like Gene said, use a fairly neutral-sounding LDC (like
>>>>NOT a C-1), set on something other than omni, and the cleanest
>>>>preamp you have (since you'll be in real close - to capture the
>>>>detail)... make sure you're paying attention for where
>>>>the optimal distance for the singer should be...you get in TOO
>>>>close, and you get too many mouth noises; too far & you're not
>>>>taking advantage of the promximity effect - I disagree with Gene
>>>>on the compression, though - you don't always need it... some
>>>>mics just kinda sound that way when worked up-close & personal
>>>>like that. Dunno what you've got for mics, but if you've got a
>>>>handful of LDCs, you should be able to find one that works.
>>>>
>>>>Neil
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79769 is a reply to message #79766] |
Fri, 09 February 2007 11:02 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
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Both those Paul Ray cuts have a lot more high end on the vox
than I would have anticipated you were looking for, based on the
sound you were describing earlier (Bing, Sinatra, etc); and
really not as much proximity effect, either.
You should be able to duplicate that, no problem. There's
nothing overly unique about that sound - just a good, crooner-
type vocal line recorded well.
Neil
"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
> http://www.amazon.com/Austin-Rhythm-Christmas-Various-Artist s/dp/B00005LNAS/sr=1-12/qid=1171041756/ref=sr_1_12/104-40246 96-4499911?ie=UTF8&s=music
>
>That is Paul Ray.
>
>
>--
>Thanks,
>
>Brandon
>
>
>
>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:45ccaea4$1@linux...
>> Here is a link to the song I was refereing to:
>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B00005LNAS001005/r ef=mu_sam_wma_001_005/104-4024696-4499911
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Gene Lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote in message
>> news:45ccaa7a$1@linux...
>>>
>>> I'm not saying you cant get a similar sound using other methods, I saying
>>> that what I described was, and is the exact method used on may of these
>>> recordings.
>>> Graham is correct to point out that in the very early recordings, Sinatra
>>> liked the RCA ribbons and many people continue to use ribbons for this
>>> today,
>>> but the LDC is still more common.
>>> The R37 trick has been a secret weapon for may producers but you also
>>> need
>>> to get the rest of the LA-2A setting just right.
>>>
>>> Gene
>>>
>>> P.S. I have used a 414 successfully to get this sound, specifically my
C
>>> 414 B-ULS, but the U-47 is a completely different animal.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>>>>K... so my AKG 414 with the Anteres mic modeler set to U-47 will do
the
>>>>
>>>>>trick???
>>>>
>>>>As long as that mic model includes rolling off some of the 414's
>>>>high end, it might.
>>>>
>>>>Actually, I shouldn'tve been so glib - you can get that sound
>>>>without a u-47, of course, just make sure the mic gets worked in
>>>>close, like Gene said, use a fairly neutral-sounding LDC (like
>>>>NOT a C-1), set on something other than omni, and the cleanest
>>>>preamp you have (since you'll be in real close - to capture the
>>>>detail)... make sure you're paying attention for where
>>>>the optimal distance for the singer should be...you get in TOO
>>>>close, and you get too many mouth noises; too far & you're not
>>>>taking advantage of the promximity effect - I disagree with Gene
>>>>on the compression, though - you don't always need it... some
>>>>mics just kinda sound that way when worked up-close & personal
>>>>like that. Dunno what you've got for mics, but if you've got a
>>>>handful of LDCs, you should be able to find one that works.
>>>>
>>>>Neil
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79770 is a reply to message #79769] |
Fri, 09 February 2007 10:02 |
brandon[2]
Messages: 380
Registered: June 2006
|
Senior Member |
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When I listen to it from the CD thru my AKG cans I can definately hear a lot
of low end on his vox.
--
Thanks,
Brandon
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45ccb72c$1@linux...
>
> Both those Paul Ray cuts have a lot more high end on the vox
> than I would have anticipated you were looking for, based on the
> sound you were describing earlier (Bing, Sinatra, etc); and
> really not as much proximity effect, either.
>
> You should be able to duplicate that, no problem. There's
> nothing overly unique about that sound - just a good, crooner-
> type vocal line recorded well.
>
> Neil
>
>
> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>> http://www.amazon.com/Austin-Rhythm-Christmas-Various-Artist s/dp/B00005LNAS/sr=1-12/qid=1171041756/ref=sr_1_12/104-40246 96-4499911?ie=UTF8&s=music
>>
>>That is Paul Ray.
>>
>>
>>--
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Brandon
>>
>>
>>
>>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:45ccaea4$1@linux...
>>> Here is a link to the song I was refereing to:
>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B00005LNAS001005/r ef=mu_sam_wma_001_005/104-4024696-4499911
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Gene Lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote in message
>>> news:45ccaa7a$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> I'm not saying you cant get a similar sound using other methods, I
>>>> saying
>>>> that what I described was, and is the exact method used on may of these
>
>>>> recordings.
>>>> Graham is correct to point out that in the very early recordings,
>>>> Sinatra
>>>> liked the RCA ribbons and many people continue to use ribbons for this
>
>>>> today,
>>>> but the LDC is still more common.
>>>> The R37 trick has been a secret weapon for may producers but you also
>
>>>> need
>>>> to get the rest of the LA-2A setting just right.
>>>>
>>>> Gene
>>>>
>>>> P.S. I have used a 414 successfully to get this sound, specifically my
> C
>>>> 414 B-ULS, but the U-47 is a completely different animal.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>>>>>K... so my AKG 414 with the Anteres mic modeler set to U-47 will do
> the
>>>>>
>>>>>>trick???
>>>>>
>>>>>As long as that mic model includes rolling off some of the 414's
>>>>>high end, it might.
>>>>>
>>>>>Actually, I shouldn'tve been so glib - you can get that sound
>>>>>without a u-47, of course, just make sure the mic gets worked in
>>>>>close, like Gene said, use a fairly neutral-sounding LDC (like
>>>>>NOT a C-1), set on something other than omni, and the cleanest
>>>>>preamp you have (since you'll be in real close - to capture the
>>>>>detail)... make sure you're paying attention for where
>>>>>the optimal distance for the singer should be...you get in TOO
>>>>>close, and you get too many mouth noises; too far & you're not
>>>>>taking advantage of the promximity effect - I disagree with Gene
>>>>>on the compression, though - you don't always need it... some
>>>>>mics just kinda sound that way when worked up-close & personal
>>>>>like that. Dunno what you've got for mics, but if you've got a
>>>>>handful of LDCs, you should be able to find one that works.
>>>>>
>>>>>Neil
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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| Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79784 is a reply to message #79758] |
Fri, 09 February 2007 11:48 |
Miguel Vigil [1]
Messages: 258
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
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It's the proximity effect. No problem to get that out of a C1. The only
processing I had to do was rolling off some low end. (It was very close :-)
Bjorn R
"Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45cc9dd2$1@linux...
>
> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
> >K... so my AKG 414 with the Anteres mic modeler set to U-47 will do the
>
> >trick???
>
> As long as that mic model includes rolling off some of the 414's
> high end, it might.
>
> Actually, I shouldn'tve been so glib - you can get that sound
> without a u-47, of course, just make sure the mic gets worked in
> close, like Gene said, use a fairly neutral-sounding LDC (like
> NOT a C-1), set on something other than omni, and the cleanest
> preamp you have (since you'll be in real close - to capture the
> detail)... make sure you're paying attention for where
> the optimal distance for the singer should be...you get in TOO
> close, and you get too many mouth noises; too far & you're not
> taking advantage of the promximity effect - I disagree with Gene
> on the compression, though - you don't always need it... some
> mics just kinda sound that way when worked up-close & personal
> like that. Dunno what you've got for mics, but if you've got a
> handful of LDCs, you should be able to find one that works.
>
> Neil
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| Re: Intimate bassy vocals??? [message #79785 is a reply to message #79784] |
Fri, 09 February 2007 11:57 |
John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
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I'll have to try the figure 8 on my C3. Great tips here !
BR wrote:
> It's the proximity effect. No problem to get that out of a C1. The only
> processing I had to do was rolling off some low end. (It was very close :-)
>
> Bjorn R
>
>
> "Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45cc9dd2$1@linux...
>> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>> K... so my AKG 414 with the Anteres mic modeler set to U-47 will do the
>>> trick???
>> As long as that mic model includes rolling off some of the 414's
>> high end, it might.
>>
>> Actually, I shouldn'tve been so glib - you can get that sound
>> without a u-47, of course, just make sure the mic gets worked in
>> close, like Gene said, use a fairly neutral-sounding LDC (like
>> NOT a C-1), set on something other than omni, and the cleanest
>> preamp you have (since you'll be in real close - to capture the
>> detail)... make sure you're paying attention for where
>> the optimal distance for the singer should be...you get in TOO
>> close, and you get too many mouth noises; too far & you're not
>> taking advantage of the promximity effect - I disagree with Gene
>> on the compression, though - you don't always need it... some
>> mics just kinda sound that way when worked up-close & personal
>> like that. Dunno what you've got for mics, but if you've got a
>> handful of LDCs, you should be able to find one that works.
>>
>> Neil
>
>
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