Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » What I'm noticing here about the the two mix busses
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| Re: What I'm noticing here about the the two mix busses [message #74219 is a reply to message #74215] |
Mon, 16 October 2006 16:08   |
TC
Messages: 327
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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Deej,
I think a big part of it is in the way you are used to working. Paris is obviously a much different and more forgiving beast in it's summing.
I'm composing in and tracking to PTHD or DP5 (under DAE) these days, and was doing most things in Logic Pro (DAE) before that (Logic DAE issues caused the switch to DP).
Apart from Paris, I thought Logic sounds the best to me, and PTHD also sounds great if you know how to mix on it.
For me personally, I've recently started using Paris again, recording stems back to Paris from DP for mixing and summing. Things have become fun again and my
stress level has eased when trying to get a good mix. I just find it much easier. I like all the options and midi features that DP5 gives me, so this is a good workflow for me.
Someone who is far better at mixing than I am would have an easier time of it on other systems, but I think we've been a bit spoiled coming from Paris as a first DAW.
Cheers,
TC
DJ wrote:
> I can solo a track and it sounds fine....just like it did in Paris.
>
> I can start raising faders and the more faders I raise, the more the mix
> starts to collapse. I'm so used to just bringing up the faders and getting
> my panning and levels in order before I do anything else. With the native
> mix I'm wanting to start carving out space immediately. Now I'm not saying
> that a bad thing really......I mean........it's a good thing to notice that
> this needs to be done and I'm sure that doing it will open things up a lot,
> but in Paris, there just doesn't seem to be this obvious necessity. Does
> this mean that Paris isn't telling the truth or that there's something
> different in the way it sum?. Well, BT mentioned this a long time ago and at
> the time I had only heard this *collapsing* phenomena in a PT Mix system.
> Native systems weren't really ready for prime time yet. Cubase sounds much
> better than what I recalled from PT Mix (but it's been a while) uit I've got
> say that it's so wierd that there is this big sonic difference in the way
> the mix behaves between these two systems. Very different behaviour. I'm
> honestly not trying or wanting to slag native systems.........there is just
> this difference (that I was hoping I wouldn't notice so I wouldn' have to
> learn anything ;o).
>
> Now...........back to the mix.
>
> Deej
>
>
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| Re: What I'm noticing here about the the two mix busses [message #74243 is a reply to message #74222] |
Mon, 16 October 2006 19:49 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
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Senior Member |
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One might say the same thing about peeing in a cup in a windstorm. Paris has
a much nicer cup to pee in than native, 'eh?
AA
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45341078$1@linux...
>
> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
>>I switch all
>>the Nuendo buses to a single mix 2bus and the mix "shrinks" sonically.
>>
>>that's exactly what I'm hearing Dave.
>
> If you hold a funnel in your hand, and you try to use a pressure
> washer to force 100 gallons a minute through that funnel, not
> only will the funnel not be able to accomodate that flow, but
> you will also get wet in the process. If, however, you adjust
> the water flow so that it is at slightly less than the capacity
> of the funnel, not only will you not get wet, but everything
> will flow smoothly, and the stream emanating from the end of the
> funnel will be a thing of beauty...
>
> ...grasshopper.
>
> Think zen when mixing in Cubase.
>
> :D
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| Re: What I'm noticing here about the the two mix busses [message #74269 is a reply to message #74215] |
Tue, 17 October 2006 04:07 |
Dimitrios
Messages: 1056
Registered: August 2005
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Senior Member |
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DJ,
You are certainly right with this.
I am struggling for the last 10 years to get a mix where evrything will stay
on their place like old analog consoles and tape machines were.
I tried all cubase versions with favoured 5.01 (not 5.1) tried SX tried Samplitude,
tried Nuendo , tried Creamware.
All had the same symptoms, on or two tracks were sounding fine ,but when
you were reaching 7, 8 or more the soundstage was collapsing AND bass was
waving around , focus was non existend and mixes were not comparable to the
best out thesere.
Creamware Pulsar was the best of all but still not satisfying.
That was until I tried paris.
I worked some good years with analog back then and it was the first time
I could mix on the fly with satisfying results.
OK I don't like much the AD converters on Paris except for some drums sounds
but the mixing buss thing rules, eds compressor Ilike, reverb is decent for
some things, eq is very fine used much.
Thats why I wanted to say I keep Paris no matter what.
I will still be using Creamware to intergrate the latest trends and effects
and routing possibilities and leave Paris for mixing.
Regards,
Dimitrios
"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
>I can solo a track and it sounds fine....just like it did in Paris.
>
>I can start raising faders and the more faders I raise, the more the mix
>starts to collapse. I'm so used to just bringing up the faders and getting
>my panning and levels in order before I do anything else. With the native
>mix I'm wanting to start carving out space immediately. Now I'm not saying
>that a bad thing really......I mean........it's a good thing to notice that
>this needs to be done and I'm sure that doing it will open things up a lot,
>but in Paris, there just doesn't seem to be this obvious necessity. Does
>this mean that Paris isn't telling the truth or that there's something
>different in the way it sum?. Well, BT mentioned this a long time ago and
at
>the time I had only heard this *collapsing* phenomena in a PT Mix system.
>Native systems weren't really ready for prime time yet. Cubase sounds much
>better than what I recalled from PT Mix (but it's been a while) uit I've
got
>say that it's so wierd that there is this big sonic difference in the way
>the mix behaves between these two systems. Very different behaviour. I'm
>honestly not trying or wanting to slag native systems.........there is just
>this difference (that I was hoping I wouldn't notice so I wouldn' have to
>learn anything ;o).
>
>Now...........back to the mix.
>
>Deej
>
>
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| Re: What I'm noticing here about the the two mix busses [message #74281 is a reply to message #74243] |
Tue, 17 October 2006 06:58 |
Rod Lincoln
Messages: 883
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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truly eloquent
rod
"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>One might say the same thing about peeing in a cup in a windstorm. Paris
has
>a much nicer cup to pee in than native, 'eh?
>AA
>
>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45341078$1@linux...
>>
>> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
>>>I switch all
>>>the Nuendo buses to a single mix 2bus and the mix "shrinks" sonically.
>>>
>>>that's exactly what I'm hearing Dave.
>>
>> If you hold a funnel in your hand, and you try to use a pressure
>> washer to force 100 gallons a minute through that funnel, not
>> only will the funnel not be able to accomodate that flow, but
>> you will also get wet in the process. If, however, you adjust
>> the water flow so that it is at slightly less than the capacity
>> of the funnel, not only will you not get wet, but everything
>> will flow smoothly, and the stream emanating from the end of the
>> funnel will be a thing of beauty...
>>
>> ...grasshopper.
>>
>> Think zen when mixing in Cubase.
>>
>> :D
>
>
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| Re: What I'm noticing here about the the two mix busses [message #74287 is a reply to message #74269] |
Tue, 17 October 2006 08:38 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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Honestly to me this sounds like you are used to a console's inherent EQing
and narrowing of the image of individual channels that "allows" more space
for the combination of tracks - I can hear this in the best mixes out
there - individual tracks sound very narrow and "small" but when combined
the mix sounds quite spacious and spread apartdue to the space "between"
tracks (one case in point was a Madonna track I once pulled up for
reference, knowing it was mixed on an SSL from the liner notes - the vocal
sounded pencil thin in the middle of the track). However, if you start with
multiple spacious tracks (image and frequency response), they will walk all
over one another. I even find mono tracks can sound wider on their own in a
DAW than other formats, mostly due to better and more accurate frequency
response (if well recorded with an LDC, transparent preamp and quality
converters). Of course then you can always put a mediocre plugin EQ on it
and remove all of that width and clarity in a heartbeat. ;-)
DAWs generally don't limit the bandwidth or sound stage of individual
tracks, leaving it to the mixer to make everything fit. It isn't a problem,
it's a lack of a limitation. One that many engineers learned to expect and
utilize when working with consoles.
To be honest, the only problem I have with DAW mixing is having to narrow
and dull down tracks to get them to sound like "other mixes". Obviously I'm
not overly psyched about what has become standard expectation in the music
world simply due to technical limitations of the past, now compounded by
more modern technical advances attempting to recreate those limitations.
It's a funny world. At least this is all about making music - you don't
have to like or use native DAWs to make great music.
Regards,
Dedric
"Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote in message news:4534b954$1@linux...
>
> DJ,
> You are certainly right with this.
> I am struggling for the last 10 years to get a mix where evrything will
> stay
> on their place like old analog consoles and tape machines were.
> I tried all cubase versions with favoured 5.01 (not 5.1) tried SX tried
> Samplitude,
> tried Nuendo , tried Creamware.
> All had the same symptoms, on or two tracks were sounding fine ,but when
> you were reaching 7, 8 or more the soundstage was collapsing AND bass was
> waving around , focus was non existend and mixes were not comparable to
> the
> best out thesere.
> Creamware Pulsar was the best of all but still not satisfying.
> That was until I tried paris.
> I worked some good years with analog back then and it was the first time
> I could mix on the fly with satisfying results.
> OK I don't like much the AD converters on Paris except for some drums
> sounds
> but the mixing buss thing rules, eds compressor Ilike, reverb is decent
> for
> some things, eq is very fine used much.
> Thats why I wanted to say I keep Paris no matter what.
> I will still be using Creamware to intergrate the latest trends and
> effects
> and routing possibilities and leave Paris for mixing.
> Regards,
> Dimitrios
>
> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
>>I can solo a track and it sounds fine....just like it did in Paris.
>>
>>I can start raising faders and the more faders I raise, the more the mix
>>starts to collapse. I'm so used to just bringing up the faders and getting
>>my panning and levels in order before I do anything else. With the native
>>mix I'm wanting to start carving out space immediately. Now I'm not saying
>>that a bad thing really......I mean........it's a good thing to notice
>>that
>>this needs to be done and I'm sure that doing it will open things up a
>>lot,
>>but in Paris, there just doesn't seem to be this obvious necessity. Does
>>this mean that Paris isn't telling the truth or that there's something
>>different in the way it sum?. Well, BT mentioned this a long time ago and
> at
>>the time I had only heard this *collapsing* phenomena in a PT Mix system.
>>Native systems weren't really ready for prime time yet. Cubase sounds much
>>better than what I recalled from PT Mix (but it's been a while) uit I've
> got
>>say that it's so wierd that there is this big sonic difference in the way
>>the mix behaves between these two systems. Very different behaviour. I'm
>>honestly not trying or wanting to slag native systems.........there is
>>just
>>this difference (that I was hoping I wouldn't notice so I wouldn' have to
>>learn anything ;o).
>>
>>Now...........back to the mix.
>>
>>Deej
>>
>>
>
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