Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » why no Linux DAW?
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| Re: why no Linux DAW? [message #97480 is a reply to message #97468] |
Wed, 26 March 2008 21:14   |
Kerry Galloway
Messages: 56
Registered: December 2008
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Member |
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Hi all... long time no post. I'm on the verge of coming back into the
Paris fold soon (this time on PC) after far too long spent pining for
the fat sound, zero latency and hardware-like response of Paris, and
will no doubt have myriad newbie PC configuration questions soon enough.
But I thought I'd chime in. In case this isn't yet public knowledge here
- rejoice, for a Linux DAW has come!
Well, sorta. Kinda. Okay, not really.
However, the formidable REAPER, which seems to be pretty well known and
well-thought-of here - while not actually *ported* to Linux - is
apparently now *running* quite well under Linux using WINE, a
compatibility layer of substitutes for Windows APIs (as far as I
understand it), and WINEAsio drivers.
It seems a tad geeky to configure and get running, but reportedly once
configured, REAPER (along I believe with the at-times very good included
plugins - and now apparently some Windows VSTs) runs well and with nice
low latencies (some reportedly less than 3ms, although I have no idea
how rigorously that might have been measured).
Here's a link to a step-by-step "how to" and a lot more info:
http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16786&highl ight=linux
As the poster says:
"... The REAPER dev team do a great job of keeping REAPER "Wine
friendly". in conjunction with Wine, we use a special ASIO driver, aptly
named "WineAsio" which we use within wine to be able to use a true blue
windows vst host to use windows-compiled VSTs, and any other great DAW
features like midi sequencing, in-house effects etc. There will be more
on this as we go through the guide."
(...)
"... there will always be an "overhead" when using wine when compared to
running it natively. this is because the wine api is running OVER the
linux, so while JACK may give you some crazy good latencies, dont expect
to be able to function as smoothly as native Windows just yet....for
most its just fine though. some of the major issues mostly have to do
with the gui (being slower or slightly choppy at times)."
----
I did a fair bit of audio editing work under Linux last year using a
low-latency-kernel distro called DeMuDi put out by the AGNULA project
with a lot of bundled apps, just for the sake of trying something new.
Trying it out was was pretty cool, but I had it installed on a very old
Pentium so I can't comment much about the more advanced applications.
But the algos for things like timestretching and pitch shifting, as well
as many other processes, were excellent.
Apparently AGNULA has since lost its EEC funding and Demudi has now been
folded into the Debian Multimedia Project, which I don't know much about.
http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMultimedia
Hope this info is of interest to someone.
- Kerry
Oh - PS - anyone got any documentation on the Paris session file format?
I'd love it if someone got enough info to Justin so he could take a look
at being able to import Paris sessions - he did it with RADAR in about
two or three days, so with documentation I wonder how hard it could be
to do the same with Paris?
In article <47ea4c39$1@linux>, "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
> There are a couple different linux daws. Ardour is the big one I think. The
> setup and configuration is not for the faint of heart. The OS needs to be
> tweaked up a lot for low latency audio.
>
> The lack of audio hardware drivers and linux specific plugin versions are
> big drawbacks.
>
> If someone did an audio only linux distro on a click and run ISO image that
> was all tricked out and ready to go it would be pretty cool. Maybe its out
> there.
>
> Chuck
> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
> >As I understand it, the stop on true low latency is because the OSes
> >have too much extra stuff running. Why not write/port one like Reaper
> >for Linux? Wouldn't that be a solution? Would there be a problem getting
>
> >all the VST plugs to work? and of course drivers? But surely a few
> >companies would write drivers if there appeared to be a potential market.
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| Re: why no Linux DAW? [message #97483 is a reply to message #97473] |
Thu, 27 March 2008 08:00 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
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Senior Member |
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I don't think it's worth the effort when current native systems are actually
quite usable and hardware workarounds for latency are pretty solid.
GNU/linux options will continue to improve, slowly but surely, as programmers
will continue to program. But I don't see anyone pumping a bunch of money
into GNU audio software any time soon. Databases, server monitoring, that
sort of thing (see Sun finally getting religion on this front) will continue
to be where the action is for free software.
TCB
Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>So with that potential and none of the low latency systems truly giving
>what I call professional latency, I would think there is a market for
>some bold company to do it with a soft/hard solution, but I know there
>is a big risk and it's probably a lot of work putting it all together.
>
>TCB wrote:
>> This is trying to be that
>>
>> http://ubuntustudio.org/
>>
>> I've tried it a few times, it doesn't get done what I need. VST support
goes
>> back and forth as it's hard to get such stridently non-free software working
>> with free apps. The plug-in companies won't offer any support. That said,
>> I do know one guy who uses Ardour for his vocal overdubs at home.
>>
>> The linux kernel (when properly configured) can be a SPECTACULAR low latency
>> system. The issue is hardware/software support.
>>
>> TCB
>>
>> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>>> As I understand it, the stop on true low latency is because the OSes
>>> have too much extra stuff running. Why not write/port one like Reaper
>>> for Linux? Wouldn't that be a solution? Would there be a problem getting
>>
>>> all the VST plugs to work? and of course drivers? But surely a few
>>> companies would write drivers if there appeared to be a potential market.
>>
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| Re: why no Linux DAW? [message #97503 is a reply to message #97480] |
Thu, 27 March 2008 20:25 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
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Senior Member |
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All good advice and cool software. I _really_ like the Debian Multimedia guys,
in the long run they'll come up with something really cool.
That said, the real problem these days is that so much of the high quality
audio tech and hardware is proprietary. Until there are drivers for the best
hardware, native versions of the software, and some way to _legitimately_
use stuff like VST plug-ins on GNU/linux there will always be a penalty paid
for not being on Windows or OS X. The Debian guys are purists to the core
so they'll be the last ones to cave on these issues. That's why I think the
'nod and wink' attitude of the Ubuntu Studio crew is likely to wind up with
something workable before anyone else.
I hope I'm wrong. If I could run Live and all of my VST f/x and instruments
on Debian tomorrow I'd be the happiest kid in the world. I'd burn all of
my M$oft stuff in a second.
TCB
Kerry Galloway <kerrygalloway@telus.net> wrote:
>Hi all... long time no post. I'm on the verge of coming back into the
>Paris fold soon (this time on PC) after far too long spent pining for
>the fat sound, zero latency and hardware-like response of Paris, and
>will no doubt have myriad newbie PC configuration questions soon enough.
>
>
>But I thought I'd chime in. In case this isn't yet public knowledge here
>- rejoice, for a Linux DAW has come!
>
>Well, sorta. Kinda. Okay, not really.
>
>However, the formidable REAPER, which seems to be pretty well known and
>well-thought-of here - while not actually *ported* to Linux - is
>apparently now *running* quite well under Linux using WINE, a
>compatibility layer of substitutes for Windows APIs (as far as I
>understand it), and WINEAsio drivers.
>
>It seems a tad geeky to configure and get running, but reportedly once
>configured, REAPER (along I believe with the at-times very good included
>plugins - and now apparently some Windows VSTs) runs well and with nice
>low latencies (some reportedly less than 3ms, although I have no idea
>how rigorously that might have been measured).
>
>Here's a link to a step-by-step "how to" and a lot more info:
>
> http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16786&highl ight=linux
>
>As the poster says:
>
>"... The REAPER dev team do a great job of keeping REAPER "Wine
>friendly". in conjunction with Wine, we use a special ASIO driver, aptly
>named "WineAsio" which we use within wine to be able to use a true blue
>windows vst host to use windows-compiled VSTs, and any other great DAW
>features like midi sequencing, in-house effects etc. There will be more
>on this as we go through the guide."
>
>(...)
>
>"... there will always be an "overhead" when using wine when compared to
>running it natively. this is because the wine api is running OVER the
>linux, so while JACK may give you some crazy good latencies, dont expect
>to be able to function as smoothly as native Windows just yet....for
>most its just fine though. some of the major issues mostly have to do
>with the gui (being slower or slightly choppy at times)."
>
>----
>
>I did a fair bit of audio editing work under Linux last year using a
>low-latency-kernel distro called DeMuDi put out by the AGNULA project
>with a lot of bundled apps, just for the sake of trying something new.
>
>Trying it out was was pretty cool, but I had it installed on a very old
>Pentium so I can't comment much about the more advanced applications.
>But the algos for things like timestretching and pitch shifting, as well
>as many other processes, were excellent.
>
>Apparently AGNULA has since lost its EEC funding and Demudi has now been
>folded into the Debian Multimedia Project, which I don't know much about.
>
>http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMultimedia
>
>Hope this info is of interest to someone.
>
>- Kerry
>
>Oh - PS - anyone got any documentation on the Paris session file format?
>I'd love it if someone got enough info to Justin so he could take a look
>at being able to import Paris sessions - he did it with RADAR in about
>two or three days, so with documentation I wonder how hard it could be
>to do the same with Paris?
>
>In article <47ea4c39$1@linux>, "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>
>> There are a couple different linux daws. Ardour is the big one I think.
The
>> setup and configuration is not for the faint of heart. The OS needs to
be
>> tweaked up a lot for low latency audio.
>>
>> The lack of audio hardware drivers and linux specific plugin versions
are
>> big drawbacks.
>>
>> If someone did an audio only linux distro on a click and run ISO image
that
>> was all tricked out and ready to go it would be pretty cool. Maybe its
out
>> there.
>>
>> Chuck
>> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>> >As I understand it, the stop on true low latency is because the OSes
>> >have too much extra stuff running. Why not write/port one like Reaper
>> >for Linux? Wouldn't that be a solution? Would there be a problem getting
>>
>> >all the VST plugs to work? and of course drivers? But surely a few
>> >companies would write drivers if there appeared to be a potential market.
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| Re: why no Linux DAW? [message #97995 is a reply to message #97467] |
Tue, 15 April 2008 20:25 |
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Some new info on REAPER on Linux
http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15238
On 3/26/08 5:57 AM, in article 47ea4b07@linux, "Bill L"
<bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
> As I understand it, the stop on true low latency is because the OSes
> have too much extra stuff running. Why not write/port one like Reaper
> for Linux? Wouldn't that be a solution? Would there be a problem getting
> all the VST plugs to work? and of course drivers? But surely a few
> companies would write drivers if there appeared to be a potential market.
"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
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