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How to get Subtle Stereo Vocals [message #94230]

Tue, 01 January 2008 06:12

John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005

Senior Member

I am trying to get a subtle stereo vocal sound like the one in this link below.
Can anyone tell me how they think this was recorded and does anyone have
some tips to take a mono vocal and get it to simulate this sound.

It's not real obvious when listening normally but if you use headphones and
the Kelly Stereo tools and pick the preset "Mute Left Center Right" or "Mute
Right Center Left" it will take a channel like Left and put it in both channels
or right and put it in both for a mono effect. Switching this back to default
(stereo) makes the subtle stereo effect very obvious.

I have plenty of reverbs and delays if you have things for me to try. Maybe
it's not possible and I just have to record in stereo. Do you think this
vocal was recorded in stereo or what? Thanks.

Vocal
http://download.yousendit.com/02BE268D26657759

Saxophone
http://download.yousendit.com/0341E85377D3681A

Kelly Stereo Tools
http://www.kellyindustries.com/stereo_tools.html

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Re: How to get Subtle Stereo Vocals [message #94231 is a reply to message #94230]

Tue, 01 January 2008 07:42

AlexPlasko

Messages: 211
Registered: September 2006

Senior Member

hi john. there are allot of ways to thicken vocals depending on the genre
and arrangement .the way I would suggest is take your time and experiment.
generally you want to start off with recording vocals DRY, and mixed dead
center with kick,snare and bass.
chorusing can be panned hard left and right.you can use several different
short delays panned left /right (10-20 ms.)which is what chorusing is
basically.
you can also use several different short reverbs panned differently.
the main starting point is making sure it is SUBTLE.by that I mean bring the
effect up to where it is clear , and then back it off so it is barley there.
EQ ing the effect returns a little differently will help .
you don't want to smear the rest of the sound field with the vocal
thickening so try to keep it out of the way of whatever else is there.
its not going to be as easy as just plopping a plug in on the vocals.it WILL
take some time.allot of time
another trick is to duplicate tracks and delay the copy by fractions of a
millisecond.,point 1 or less
just make sure you leave the dry vocals center to ensure the most clarity."
<no@no.com> wrote in message news:477a3c54$1@linux...
>
> I am trying to get a subtle stereo vocal sound like the one in this link
> below.
> Can anyone tell me how they think this was recorded and does anyone have
> some tips to take a mono vocal and get it to simulate this sound.
>
> It's not real obvious when listening normally but if you use headphones
> and
> the Kelly Stereo tools and pick the preset "Mute Left Center Right" or
> "Mute
> Right Center Left" it will take a channel like Left and put it in both
> channels
> or right and put it in both for a mono effect. Switching this back to
> default
> (stereo) makes the subtle stereo effect very obvious.
>
> I have plenty of reverbs and delays if you have things for me to try.
> Maybe
> it's not possible and I just have to record in stereo. Do you think this
> vocal was recorded in stereo or what? Thanks.
>
> Vocal
> http://download.yousendit.com/02BE268D26657759
>
> Saxophone
> http://download.yousendit.com/0341E85377D3681A
>
>
>
>
> Kelly Stereo Tools
> http://www.kellyindustries.com/stereo_tools.html
>

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Re: How to get Subtle Stereo Vocals [message #94232 is a reply to message #94230]

Tue, 01 January 2008 08:49

Rod Lincoln
Messages: 883
Registered: September 2005

Senior Member

John, I havn't listened to the example yet, but a lot of guys use a trick
with the eventide harmonizer where you pitch one side up a few cents and
delay it about 16 ms, then pitch the other side down a few cents and delay
it about 30 ms. Use as an effect bus, just enough that you don't really hear
it, but you notice when it goes away.
Rod
"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>
>I am trying to get a subtle stereo vocal sound like the one in this link
below.
> Can anyone tell me how they think this was recorded and does anyone have
>some tips to take a mono vocal and get it to simulate this sound.
>
>It's not real obvious when listening normally but if you use headphones
and
>the Kelly Stereo tools and pick the preset "Mute Left Center Right" or "Mute
>Right Center Left" it will take a channel like Left and put it in both channels
>or right and put it in both for a mono effect. Switching this back to default
>(stereo) makes the subtle stereo effect very obvious.
>
>I have plenty of reverbs and delays if you have things for me to try. Maybe
>it's not possible and I just have to record in stereo. Do you think this
>vocal was recorded in stereo or what? Thanks.
>
>Vocal
>http://download.yousendit.com/02BE268D26657759
>
>Saxophone
>http://download.yousendit.com/0341E85377D3681A
>
>
>
>
>Kelly Stereo Tools
>http://www.kellyindustries.com/stereo_tools.html
>

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Re: How to get Subtle Stereo Vocals [message #94237 is a reply to message #94232]

Tue, 01 January 2008 11:10

Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006

Senior Member

"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>John, I havn't listened to the example yet, but a lot of guys use a trick
>with the eventide harmonizer where you pitch one side up a few cents and
>delay it about 16 ms, then pitch the other side down a few cents and delay
>it about 30 ms. Use as an effect bus, just enough that you don't really
hear
>it, but you notice when it goes away.

Yep, i used to do this with an SPX-90... not as high-fidelity
as the Eventide, but I used to just go 3 cents up on the left &
3 cents down on the right, no delay (the SPX kinda seemed to
impart a very slight delay anyway.

Nowadays, with unlimited tracks, I just ask the singer to
double & triple, then pan those L&R & blend as needed... nudge
if you want a slight delay, chop it up into differently-
effected tracks/segments for each part of the song. Much more
versatile these days.

Neil

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Re: How to get Subtle Stereo Vocals [message #94238 is a reply to message #94237]

Tue, 01 January 2008 12:27

John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005

Senior Member

Thanks for the tips but I already know those regardin pitch shifint cents
and delay. Anyone have time to listen to my sample and suggest how to get
this particular sound please? Thanks

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Re: How to get Subtle Stereo Vocals [message #94239 is a reply to message #94238]

Tue, 01 January 2008 11:37

Don Nafe

Messages: 1206
Registered: July 2005

Senior Member

Have you tried just a copy of the track and then a pan at 35/35...kinda
sounds like twhat I did with the vocals on my last Cape thing at the
womb...normally I don't do that but in my case it widened the vocal track
just enough...definitely noticed a big difference when I went to a single
track panned at C

as always YMMV

Don

"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:477a942f$1@linux...
>
> Thanks for the tips but I already know those regardin pitch shifint cents
> and delay. Anyone have time to listen to my sample and suggest how to get
> this particular sound please? Thanks

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Re: How to get Subtle Stereo Vocals [message #94240 is a reply to message #94238]

Tue, 01 January 2008 13:01

Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006

Senior Member

"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>
>Thanks for the tips but I already know those regardin pitch shifint cents
>and delay. Anyone have time to listen to my sample and suggest how to get
>this particular sound please? Thanks

I just did, and frankly it doesn't sound like anything to me
but the 'verb. Listened to it on headphones, too... still just
sounds like a straight-up dead-center track for both the vocal
& the sax cut, with a stereo reverb on it.

Neil

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Re: How to get Subtle Stereo Vocals [message #94241 is a reply to message #94240]

Tue, 01 January 2008 13:10

AlexPlasko

Messages: 211
Registered: September 2006

Senior Member

I agree with Neil. nothing complicated there but some reverb spread. the mix
is thin too. which is what I was trying to explain. once you start
populating the stereo field with more instrumentation ,spreading out
anything ,including the vocals is harder.
maybe try the stereo expander in cubase? or maybe the PSP stereo widening
tools on just the vocals?
I like neils idea about just asking the singer to do multi takes and pan
those to taste. natural chorusing will sound better too.
unless its a thin mix you might create more problems than its worth.
ok ill shut up now...........

"Neil" <OIUIO@OIU.com> wrote in message news:477a9c07$1@linux...
>
> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>
>>Thanks for the tips but I already know those regardin pitch shifint cents
>>and delay. Anyone have time to listen to my sample and suggest how to get
>>this particular sound please? Thanks
>
> I just did, and frankly it doesn't sound like anything to me
> but the 'verb. Listened to it on headphones, too... still just
> sounds like a straight-up dead-center track for both the vocal
> & the sax cut, with a stereo reverb on it.
>
> Neil

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Re: How to get Subtle Stereo Vocals [message #94242 is a reply to message #94241]

Tue, 01 January 2008 14:28

Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006

Senior Member

"alex plasko" <alex.plasko@snet.net> wrote:

>I like neils idea about just asking the singer to do multi takes and pan

>those to taste. natural chorusing will sound better too.
>unless its a thin mix you might create more problems than its worth.

Even if it's a sparse mix or arrangement (I don't want to
use "thin", since that kind of implies a bad mix, rather than a
sparse arrangement, which is simply a matter of the way the
song is written & performed), doubling doesn't have to create a
problem... you can bring the levels of the doubled/tripled
tracks up so they're barely perceptible, for example. If the
singer's not up to doublng, you can clone the track twice & use
Autotune on one side & Melodyne on the other (if you have both)
since they sound different... you can Melodyne pitch-correct
only a few words here & there & simply change the formant on
others. Biggest problem with cloning is that I notice flanging
right away, so you have to kinda split the cloned track in key
places & nudge around a bit. You can also throw the
cloned/panned tracks into a much longer reverb than the lead
vox, so you have this subtle tail going on that has a whole
different character (due to the 'verb itself being different
AND having the differently-treated cloned tracks sent to it)
than your main ambience.... heck, send 'em pre-fader & leave
the faders on the cloned channels all the way down if you
want... there's a bajillion cool things you can toy with!

Anyway, that kinda gets back to suggestions that John wasn't
really looking for, so i'll just leave it at that & reiterate
that I think it's just the reverb, with regard to those clips.

Neil

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Re: How to get Subtle Stereo Vocals [message #94243 is a reply to message #94240]

Tue, 01 January 2008 16:10

Martin Harrington

Messages: 560
Registered: September 2005

Senior Member

On 2/1/08 8:01 AM, in article 477a9c07$1@linux, "Neil" <OIUIO@OIU.com>
wrote:

>
> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the tips but I already know those regardin pitch shifint cents
>> and delay. Anyone have time to listen to my sample and suggest how to get
>> this particular sound please? Thanks
>
> I just did, and frankly it doesn't sound like anything to me
> but the 'verb. Listened to it on headphones, too... still just
> sounds like a straight-up dead-center track for both the vocal
> & the sax cut, with a stereo reverb on it.
>
> Neil
I'm with you, Neil.
To me it just sounds like a single voice, dead centre in the mix.
No more, no less.

Martin

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Re: How to get Subtle Stereo Vocals [message #94263 is a reply to message #94230]

Wed, 02 January 2008 10:45

EK Sound

Messages: 939
Registered: June 2005

Senior Member

I stereo mic the vocal. Specifically, I use a pair of Neumann U89i in
Figure 8 mode in an XY configuration (crossed blumlien). The result is
huge and mono compatible. I have also had great results with a tube C24.

David.

John wrote:
> I am trying to get a subtle stereo vocal sound like the one in this link below.
> Can anyone tell me how they think this was recorded and does anyone have
> some tips to take a mono vocal and get it to simulate this sound.
>
> It's not real obvious when listening normally but if you use headphones and
> the Kelly Stereo tools and pick the preset "Mute Left Center Right" or "Mute
> Right Center Left" it will take a channel like Left and put it in both channels
> or right and put it in both for a mono effect. Switching this back to default
> (stereo) makes the subtle stereo effect very obvious.
>
> I have plenty of reverbs and delays if you have things for me to try. Maybe
> it's not possible and I just have to record in stereo. Do you think this
> vocal was recorded in stereo or what? Thanks.
>
> Vocal
> http://download.yousendit.com/02BE268D26657759
>
> Saxophone
> http://download.yousendit.com/0341E85377D3681A
>
>
>
>
> Kelly Stereo Tools
> http://www.kellyindustries.com/stereo_tools.html
>

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Re: How to get Subtle Stereo Vocals [message #94273 is a reply to message #94263]

Wed, 02 January 2008 15:23

John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005

Senior Member

great tips here as always. Thanks In related news.....

http://forum.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=88450&hig hlight=

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Re: How to get Subtle Stereo Vocals [message #94276 is a reply to message #94273]

Wed, 02 January 2008 16:01

Kim W
Messages: 165
Registered: July 2006

Senior Member

How about Chuck's own Pseudo plugin.
Works a treat for some mixes.
Kim

"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>
>great tips here as always. Thanks In related news.....
>
> http://forum.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=88450&hig hlight=

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