Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » OT Ron Paul Interviewed by Bill Moyers of PBS
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| Re: OT Ron Paul Interviewed by Bill Moyers of PBS [message #94415 is a reply to message #94408] |
Sun, 06 January 2008 16:32   |
Bill L
Messages: 766
Registered: August 2006
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Senior Member |
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Deej,
I'm curious about exactly which "global realities" you think he does not
understand?
I have noticed a tendency in the mainstream media to portray Ron Paul as
a kook or a crazy, without stating any specific reasons whatever. That
kind of covert slander of a person's sanity is really slimey IMHO.
That's what people do when they are really desperate to win an argument
and they have nothing.
Anyway I am fed up with the apathy we face in this country about
changing our government institutions and political system. I think we
can do something about it, and I like that Ron Paul is standing up to
say "I am the man who will do it." That takes a LOT of courage.
Deej wrote:
> "Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:4780f132$1@linux...
>> http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/01042008/watch2.html
>>
>> This is a very thoughtful interview. If you like Paul's message, pass it
>> on to others who might be excited to know there is an alternative to big
>> bus- I'm sorry. I meant big government running our lives.
>
> I think that if he were outfitted with a cardigan sweater he could sub in
> for Mr. Rogers, part 2. There's plenty about Ron Paul's message that I
> like, and plenty about it that is seemingly from outer space. He seems to be
> in total denial of some pretty major global realities and I would like to
> hear him explain exactly how he plans to convert our currency to the gold
> standard. As far as Moyers is concerned, I love the obvious bias in some of
> his questions ........so ...since I can't really say much nice, I won't say
> anything.........I know that's not like me, but I've sorta' got a soft spot
> for him from my days when I was a hard core liberal kinda' guy......before I
> stopped using mind altering substances.
>
>
>
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| Re: OT Ron Paul Interviewed by Bill Moyers of PBS [message #94418 is a reply to message #94415] |
Sun, 06 January 2008 17:10 |
Deej
Messages: 130
Registered: September 2006
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Senior Member |
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message =
news:478173bf@linux...
> Deej,
>=20
> I'm curious about exactly which "global realities" you think he does =
not=20
> understand?
Bill & Ron says:
BILL MOYERS: --who own, as you say, a lot of the media out there.=20
RON PAUL: But I think it's still to this philosophy they believe in. =
They believe in war. And they believe in the military industrial =
complex. And some of these companies that are mixed in with making =
profits off war.
I think that's a distorted crock, personally.
BILL MOYERS: You remind me of something you told Tim Russet on MEET THE =
PRESS-- you talked about fascism. Look at this piece of tape.=20
RON PAUL (on MEET THE PRESS): Were not moving toward Hitler-type =
fascism, but we're moving toward a softer fascism. Loss of civil =
liberties, corporations running the show, big government in bed with big =
business. So you have the military industrial complex, you have the =
medical industrial complex, you have the financial industry, you have =
the communications industry. They go to Washington and spend hundreds of =
millions of dollars. That's where the control is. I call that a soft =
form of fascism, something that is very dangerous.=20
yadda yadda....and then he says:
RON PAUL: Yeah. Now we're living in an age today in this post-9/11 =
atmosphere where our civil liberties are being undermined constantly. =
All in the name of safety and security we're supposed to give up our =
rights for our privacy? We're allowed now to accept the idea of secret =
prisons and secret renditions, and the lost of habeas corpus. This is =
very, very dangerous. And I don't want to get to the point where it's =
hard to reverse. Matter of fact, right now it's getting more difficult =
everyday to reverse this trend, because the American people seem to so =
often say, "You know I want to be-- I can't be free, if I'm not safe. =
So, I want my government to make me safe." And they're willing to give =
up their liberties. And I'm convinced that you never have to give up =
liberties to be safe. I think you're less safe when you give up your =
liberty
I think Paul totally doesn't get the fact that due to our open society, =
our own laws can be used against us in time of war......except if you =
don't believe we are at war, in which case I say that his is dangerously =
in the twilight zone concerning some global realities. We have always =
had to take certain measures that restricted our freedoms during time of =
war.=20
http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2001/09/47051?current Page=3Dall
They were measures that were deemed necessary at the time and they have =
also always been rescinded when the war ended. This is no different. =
Many of us are just in total denial that we are at war.......a very =
real, down and dirty, no holds barred war.
I also think that his foriegn policy is, despite trying to put a new =
sole on an old shoe, isolationist, and all you have to do is look to =
history to see how that kind of policy has allowed conflicts to fester =
and escalate until we are called upon to field a massive military =
juggernaut in order to end a world war. If anyont thinks that war is =
going to go away just because we do, they are living in Disneyland. All =
that will happen is that we will just have to deal with a bigger mess on =
a larger scale than we are doing now.
>=20
> I have noticed a tendency in the mainstream media to portray Ron Paul =
as=20
> a kook or a crazy, without stating any specific reasons whatever. That =
> kind of covert slander of a person's sanity is really slimey IMHO.=20
> That's what people do when they are really desperate to win an =
argument=20
> and they have nothing.
>=20
> Anyway I am fed up with the apathy we face in this country about=20
> changing our government institutions and political system. I think we=20
> can do something about it, and I like that Ron Paul is standing up to=20
> say "I am the man who will do it." That takes a LOT of courage.
>=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Bill L" <</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:bill@billlorentzen.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>bill@billlorentzen.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>> wrote in=20
message </FONT><A href=3D"news:478173bf@linux"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>news:478173bf@linux</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> Deej,<BR>> <BR>> I'm curious =
about=20
exactly which "global realities" you think he does not <BR>>=20
understand?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><EM>Bill & Ron =
says:</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><EM>BILL MOYERS: --who own, as you say, =
a lot of=20
the media out there. </EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><EM>RON PAUL: But I think it's still to =
this=20
philosophy they believe in. They believe in war. And they believe in the =
military industrial complex. And some of these companies that are mixed =
in with=20
making profits off war.</EM></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I think that's a distorted crock,=20
personally.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><EM>BILL MOYERS: You remind me of =
something you told=20
Tim Russet on MEET THE PRESS-- you talked about fascism. Look at this =
piece of=20
tape. </EM></FONT>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><EM>RON PAUL (on MEET THE PRESS): Were =
not moving=20
toward Hitler-type fascism, but we're moving toward a softer fascism. =
Loss of=20
civil liberties, corporations running the show, big government in bed =
with big=20
business. So you have the military industrial complex, you have the =
medical=20
industrial complex, you have the financial industry, you have the =
communications=20
industry. They go to Washington and spend hundreds of millions of =
dollars.=20
That's where the control is. I call that a soft form of fascism, =
something that=20
is very dangerous. </EM></FONT></P>
<P><EM><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>yadda yadda....and then he =
says:</FONT></EM></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><EM><STRONG>RON PAUL:</STRONG> Yeah. Now =
we're living=20
in an age today in this post-9/11 atmosphere where our civil liberties =
are being=20
undermined constantly. All in the name of safety and security we're =
supposed to=20
give up our rights for our privacy? We're allowed now to accept the idea =
of=20
secret prisons and secret renditions, and the lost of habeas corpus. =
This is=20
very, very dangerous. And I don't want to get to the point where it's =
hard to=20
reverse. Matter of fact, right now it's getting more difficult everyday =
to=20
reverse this trend, because the American people seem to so often say, =
"You know=20
I want to be-- I can't be free, if I'm not safe. So, I want my =
government to=20
make me safe." And they're willing to give up their liberties. And I'm =
convinced=20
that you never have to give up liberties to be safe. I think you're less =
safe=20
when you give up your liberty</EM></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I think Paul totally doesn't get the fact =
that due to=20
our open society, our own laws can be used against us in time of =
war......except=20
if you don't believe we are at war, in which case I say that his is =
dangerously=20
in the twilight zone concerning some <STRONG>global realities</STRONG>. =
We have=20
always had to take certain measures that restricted our freedoms during =
time of=20
war. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D" http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2001/09/47051?current Page=3D=
all"> http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2001/09/47051?current Page=3Da=
ll</A></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>They were measures that were deemed =
necessary at the=20
time and they have also always been rescinded when the war ended. =
</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>This is no different. Many of us are just in total =
denial that=20
we are at war.......a very real, down and dirty, no holds barred =
war.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I also think that his foriegn policy is, =
despite=20
trying to put a new sole on an old shoe, isolationist, and all you have =
to do is=20
look to history to see how that kind of policy has allowed conflicts to =
fester=20
and escalate until we are called upon to field a massive military =
juggernaut in=20
order to end a world war. If anyont thinks that war is going to go away =
just=20
because we do, they are living in Disneyland. All that will happen =
is that=20
we will just have to deal with a bigger mess on a larger scale than we =
are doing=20
now.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> <BR>> I have noticed a tendency =
in the=20
mainstream media to portray Ron Paul as <BR>> a kook or a crazy, =
without=20
stating any specific reasons whatever. That <BR>> kind of covert =
slander of a=20
person's sanity is really slimey IMHO. <BR>> That's what people do =
when they=20
are really desperate to win an argument <BR>> and they have =
nothing.<BR>>=20
<BR>> Anyway I am fed up with the apathy we face in this country =
about=20
<BR>> changing our government institutions and political system. I =
think we=20
<BR>> can do something about it, and I like that Ron Paul is standing =
up to=20
<BR>> say "I am the man who will do it." That takes a LOT of =
courage.<BR>>=20
<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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| Re: OT Ron Paul Interviewed by Bill Moyers of PBS [message #94420 is a reply to message #94415] |
Sun, 06 January 2008 18:17 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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His views on Iraq are poorly informed rhetoric that not even Hillary
would embrace. Yet, he hammers away at every opportunity at them
with a religious zeal to the point that he appears unbalanced.
Personally, I like a lot of the Libertarian outlook, but, and this is a huge
problem for RP IMO, his plan to end the war would hand AQ and the
mullah meat puppet in Iran an instant victory and we would be dealing
with the results for decades.
Oppose the war? Fine. f*cking fine. Just come up with a realistic plan
for ending it. His is nuts.
What pissed me off was Romney and McCain talking about how many
decades it would take to be energy independent. That is politician-talk
for "I ain't gonna worry about it, the next jerk can deal with it".
Idiots.
We need more refineries. NOW. and we need to drill drill drill until
our own oil production can impact the market and take the power away
from these effin' lunatics, and we need to crash-course alternatives and
NOW.
RP is too much of a free-market libertarian to start a Manhattan Project
level program to do this, and too many of the other candidates, on both
sides, don't take it seriously enough.
DC
Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>Deej,
>
>I'm curious about exactly which "global realities" you think he does not
>understand?
>
>I have noticed a tendency in the mainstream media to portray Ron Paul as
>a kook or a crazy, without stating any specific reasons whatever. That
>kind of covert slander of a person's sanity is really slimey IMHO.
>That's what people do when they are really desperate to win an argument
>and they have nothing.
>
>Anyway I am fed up with the apathy we face in this country about
>changing our government institutions and political system. I think we
>can do something about it, and I like that Ron Paul is standing up to
>say "I am the man who will do it." That takes a LOT of courage.
>
>Deej wrote:
>> "Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:4780f132$1@linux...
>>> http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/01042008/watch2.html
>>>
>>> This is a very thoughtful interview. If you like Paul's message, pass
it
>>> on to others who might be excited to know there is an alternative to
big
>>> bus- I'm sorry. I meant big government running our lives.
>>
>> I think that if he were outfitted with a cardigan sweater he could sub
in
>> for Mr. Rogers, part 2. There's plenty about Ron Paul's message that
I
>> like, and plenty about it that is seemingly from outer space. He seems
to be
>> in total denial of some pretty major global realities and I would like
to
>> hear him explain exactly how he plans to convert our currency to the gold
>> standard. As far as Moyers is concerned, I love the obvious bias in some
of
>> his questions ........so ...since I can't really say much nice, I won't
say
>> anything.........I know that's not like me, but I've sorta' got a soft
spot
>> for him from my days when I was a hard core liberal kinda' guy......before
I
>> stopped using mind altering substances.
>>
>>
>>
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| Re: OT Ron Paul Interviewed by Bill Moyers of PBS [message #94430 is a reply to message #94428] |
Sun, 06 January 2008 22:46 |
Deej
Messages: 130
Registered: September 2006
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Senior Member |
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"Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote in message
news:4781c3b9@linux...
>I watched this when it aired. I must be missing something, because I didn't
>think he came off like a racist, idiot or dark comedy show at all. ? I
>don't want to discredit your opinions - I am only curious about them. Why
>do you guys think his ideas are so bad?
>
> thanks doods, and peace please!,
> -Carl
>
From my perspective, he is very unsure about the actual effect his policies
would create, he just doesn't seem to care and his belief that Iran isn't a
danger and doesn't have an army. Hezbolla is their army and it's right on
the northern border of Israel and they pretty much kicked Israel's butt last
go around. He's living in a firiegn policy dreamland and he would try to
finance the US government with funds that we save while the world collapses
into to total chaos.
It just srota makes me shake my head that a US congressman could be so
naieve.
I'm pretty much on the same page with him as far as immigration goes and his
thinking on the welfare state issues, but neither of these issues are
something that can be solved with the flick of a booger. If we're goint to
change it, it needs to have some sort of humany involved in the solution.
You send millions of people back to countries that are coming apart because
we withdraw from involvement there and aren't willing to reinvolve ourselves
when the infrastructure collapses and totalitarian Chavez wannabees step in
to sieze the governments, you're going to have an unbelievable chaos.
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| Re: OT Ron Paul Interviewed by Bill Moyers of PBS [message #94431 is a reply to message #94430] |
Sun, 06 January 2008 23:28 |
Carl Amburn
Messages: 214
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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I appreciate your response - I think it's a good and important discussion,
and I like to hear and know other perspectives.
I actually think RP is quite sure of his position and those future effects.
IMO, the basis for most of his ideas come from seeing the U.S. grow
constantly weaker, and to address this weakness on a fundamental level - not
by plugging different numbers into the over-bloated system as-is.
His middle east policy is something I'd like to know more about. He has
mentioned needing transition programs/policies for his ideas. I do like the
idea of the U.S. not being the world's police force though. I think there
are good examples of countries working out their own situations. My big
question about that, is... how are we going to pay for it $$ ? The dollar is
sinking sinking sinking.
I'm curious to know your response to the town hall stuff. It's an hour
long - and he lost me a couple of times, just his speaking tone - but
overall, it has reeled me in a bit more, because he's able to explain in
more detail.
-peace!,
-Carl
"Deej" <noway@jose.org> wrote in message news:4781cb99$1@linux...
>
> From my perspective, he is very unsure about the actual effect his
> policies would create, he just doesn't seem to care and his belief that
> Iran isn't a danger and doesn't have an army. Hezbolla is their army and
> it's right on the northern border of Israel and they pretty much kicked
> Israel's butt last go around. He's living in a firiegn policy dreamland
> and he would try to finance the US government with funds that we save
> while the world collapses into to total chaos.
>
> It just srota makes me shake my head that a US congressman could be so
> naieve.
>
> I'm pretty much on the same page with him as far as immigration goes and
> his thinking on the welfare state issues, but neither of these issues are
> something that can be solved with the flick of a booger. If we're goint to
> change it, it needs to have some sort of humany involved in the solution.
> You send millions of people back to countries that are coming apart
> because we withdraw from involvement there and aren't willing to reinvolve
> ourselves when the infrastructure collapses and totalitarian Chavez
> wannabees step in to sieze the governments, you're going to have an
> unbelievable chaos.
>
>
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| Re: OT Ron Paul Interviewed by Bill Moyers of PBS [message #94433 is a reply to message #94418] |
Mon, 07 January 2008 02:09 |
Erling
Messages: 156
Registered: October 2008
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Senior Member |
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We've got the global realities with Bush's political and corrupt
"fascismbehavings" here in Norway too, as in the whole EU and western
world. Now we've got the laws here too that can control and save all
internet/e-mail/telephone traffic from everywhere for a long periode.
Great corruption is showing up in the light in Norway too, now
between many of the tops in our militarysystem and the international
weaponindustry. We shall also change out our old F-16 planes here in
Norway and had 3 different planes as choices. It's going so far that
the American ambassador here went out and said the friendship between
our nations could be in great danger, if we don't buy the correct one.
So, it shows up really well here, that the American weaponindustry and
their gouvernment are walking hand in hand, whereever their power of
weapon and money are making footprints in the world.
Erling
On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 18:10:28 -0700, "Deej" <noway@jose.org> wrote:
>
>"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:478173bf@linux...
>> Deej,
>>
>> I'm curious about exactly which "global realities" you think he does not
>> understand?
>
>Bill & Ron says:
>BILL MOYERS: --who own, as you say, a lot of the media out there.
>RON PAUL: But I think it's still to this philosophy they believe in. They believe in war. And they believe in the military industrial complex. And some of these companies that are mixed in with making profits off war.
>
>I think that's a distorted crock, personally.
>
>BILL MOYERS: You remind me of something you told Tim Russet on MEET THE PRESS-- you talked about fascism. Look at this piece of tape.
>
>RON PAUL (on MEET THE PRESS): Were not moving toward Hitler-type fascism, but we're moving toward a softer fascism. Loss of civil liberties, corporations running the show, big government in bed with big business. So you have the military industrial complex, you have the medical industrial complex, you have the financial industry, you have the communications industry. They go to Washington and spend hundreds of millions of dollars. That's where the control is. I call that a soft form of fascism, something that is very dangerous.
>
>yadda yadda....and then he says:
>
>RON PAUL: Yeah. Now we're living in an age today in this post-9/11 atmosphere where our civil liberties are being undermined constantly. All in the name of safety and security we're supposed to give up our rights for our privacy? We're allowed now to accept the idea of secret prisons and secret renditions, and the lost of habeas corpus. This is very, very dangerous. And I don't want to get to the point where it's hard to reverse. Matter of fact, right now it's getting more difficult everyday to reverse this trend, because the American people seem to so often say, "You know I want to be-- I can't be free, if I'm not safe. So, I want my government to make me safe." And they're willing to give up their liberties. And I'm convinced that you never have to give up liberties to be safe. I think you're less safe when you give up your liberty
>
>I think Paul totally doesn't get the fact that due to our open society, our own laws can be used against us in time of war......except if you don't believe we are at war, in which case I say that his is dangerously in the twilight zone concerning some global realities. We have always had to take certain measures that restricted our freedoms during time of war.
>
> http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2001/09/47051?current Page=all
>
>They were measures that were deemed necessary at the time and they have also always been rescinded when the war ended. This is no different. Many of us are just in total denial that we are at war.......a very real, down and dirty, no holds barred war.
>
>I also think that his foriegn policy is, despite trying to put a new sole on an old shoe, isolationist, and all you have to do is look to history to see how that kind of policy has allowed conflicts to fester and escalate until we are called upon to field a massive military juggernaut in order to end a world war. If anyont thinks that war is going to go away just because we do, they are living in Disneyland. All that will happen is that we will just have to deal with a bigger mess on a larger scale than we are doing now.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> I have noticed a tendency in the mainstream media to portray Ron Paul as
>> a kook or a crazy, without stating any specific reasons whatever. That
>> kind of covert slander of a person's sanity is really slimey IMHO.
>> That's what people do when they are really desperate to win an argument
>> and they have nothing.
>>
>> Anyway I am fed up with the apathy we face in this country about
>> changing our government institutions and political system. I think we
>> can do something about it, and I like that Ron Paul is standing up to
>> say "I am the man who will do it." That takes a LOT of courage.
>>
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| Re: OT Ron Paul Interviewed by Bill Moyers of PBS [message #94434 is a reply to message #94426] |
Mon, 07 January 2008 05:26 |
Sarah
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Interesting . . . well, I still agree with much of what he says, and it's
just too easy for a corporate media attack dog like Russert to make anyone
who openly advocates serious change look "crazy". What he says doensn't
bother me, it's what I feel he's not saying that worries me . . . the
likelyhood of hidden agendas.
But it doesn't really matter . . . I firmly believe that Americans will
never, ever vote for radical change. We are, on the whole, fat, complacent,
and poorly informed by choice (we prefer denial). We will give lip service
to change, but we won't give up so much as a single square of toilet paper
to have real change.
"Make the world a better place, just don't cause me any discomfort in the
process."
So don't worry about Ron Paul . . . he won't get elected . . . he wants to
change things.
S
PS: Give me liberty, or give me HDTV!
"Deej" <noway@jose.org> wrote in message news:4781b81a@linux...
> Actually...here.
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22342301/
>
>
> "Deej" <noway@jose.org> wrote in message news:4781b7a2$1@linux...
>> You mean this one?
>>
>> http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977211 587
>>
>> I'm reading it right now.
>>
>>
>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:4781a872$1@linux...
>>>
>>> He is a complete and utter idoit who has flipped flopped thru-out his
>>> entire
>>> political career.
>>>
>>> Tim Russert chewed him up and spat him out and exposed his true racist
>>> self.
>>> If want to know the real Ron Paul, go back and look at the interview
>>> with
>>> Russert on Sunday's Meet the Press.
>>>
>>> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>>>>http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/01042008/watch2.html
>>>>
>>>>This is a very thoughtful interview. If you like Paul's message, pass it
>>>
>>>>on to others who might be excited to know there is an alternative to big
>>>
>>>>bus- I'm sorry. I meant big government running our lives.
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: OT Ron Paul Interviewed by Bill Moyers of PBS [message #94439 is a reply to message #94431] |
Mon, 07 January 2008 06:35 |
Deej
Messages: 130
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote in message
news:4781d53e$1@linux...
>I appreciate your response - I think it's a good and important discussion,
>and I like to hear and know other perspectives.
>
> I actually think RP is quite sure of his position and those future
> effects. IMO, the basis for most of his ideas come from seeing the U.S.
> grow constantly weaker, and to address this weakness on a fundamental
> level - not by plugging different numbers into the over-bloated system
> as-is.
>
> His middle east policy is something I'd like to know more about. He has
> mentioned needing transition programs/policies for his ideas. I do like
> the idea of the U.S. not being the world's police force though. I think
> there are good examples of countries working out their own situations. My
> big question about that, is... how are we going to pay for it $$ ? The
> dollar is sinking sinking sinking.
>
> I'm curious to know your response to the town hall stuff. It's an hour
> long - and he lost me a couple of times, just his speaking tone - but
> overall, it has reeled me in a bit more, because he's able to explain in
> more detail.
>
> -peace!,
> -Carl
Haven't see this yet, but I'll check it out.
|
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| Re: OT Ron Paul Interviewed by Bill Moyers of PBS [message #94440 is a reply to message #94434] |
Mon, 07 January 2008 07:46 |
|
|
That's my point "What he says doensn't
bother me, it's what I feel he's not saying that worries me
likelyhood of hidden agendas.
While I agree about his stance on the war and the current administration,
I disagree with every other point. And, hi svoting record in the past is
very helter-skelter. I think Russert questions were tough and fair. He seemed
to have caught RP off guard with soem of those questions of his past political
career. To me, after you get past the anit-war, anti Bush stuff, his domestic
views are anitiquated. All in all, he (RP)comes off as an old politician
that needed "new blood" pumped into his viens to revive his stalled political
career. Then, the so-called War in Iraq came and he took thee most unpopular
stance for a Republican. That got him national attention. He's not so radicl
on the domestic front.
"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>Interesting . . . well, I still agree with much of what he says, and it's
>just too easy for a corporate media attack dog like Russert to make anyone
>who openly advocates serious change look "crazy". What he says doensn't
>bother me, it's what I feel he's not saying that worries me . . . the
>likelyhood of hidden agendas.
>
>But it doesn't really matter . . . I firmly believe that Americans will
>never, ever vote for radical change. We are, on the whole, fat, complacent,
>and poorly informed by choice (we prefer denial). We will give lip service
>to change, but we won't give up so much as a single square of toilet paper
>to have real change.
>
>"Make the world a better place, just don't cause me any discomfort in the
>process."
>
>So don't worry about Ron Paul . . . he won't get elected . . . he wants
to
>change things.
>
>S
>
>PS: Give me liberty, or give me HDTV!
>
>
>"Deej" <noway@jose.org> wrote in message news:4781b81a@linux...
>> Actually...here.
>>
>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22342301/
>>
>>
>> "Deej" <noway@jose.org> wrote in message news:4781b7a2$1@linux...
>>> You mean this one?
>>>
>>> http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977211 587
>>>
>>> I'm reading it right now.
>>>
>>>
>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:4781a872$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> He is a complete and utter idoit who has flipped flopped thru-out his
>>>> entire
>>>> political career.
>>>>
>>>> Tim Russert chewed him up and spat him out and exposed his true racist
>>>> self.
>>>> If want to know the real Ron Paul, go back and look at the interview
>>>> with
>>>> Russert on Sunday's Meet the Press.
>>>>
>>>> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>>>>>http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/01042008/watch2.html
>>>>>
>>>>>This is a very thoughtful interview. If you like Paul's message, pass
it
>>>>
>>>>>on to others who might be excited to know there is an alternative to
big
>>>>
>>>>>bus- I'm sorry. I meant big government running our lives.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: OT Ron Paul Interviewed by Bill Moyers of PBS [message #94448 is a reply to message #94433] |
Mon, 07 January 2008 11:32 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
aren't you guys on our "democratization" list???
;o)
On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:09:28 +0100, erlilo <erling.lovik@lyse.net>
wrote:
>We've got the global realities with Bush's political and corrupt
>"fascismbehavings" here in Norway too, as in the whole EU and western
>world. Now we've got the laws here too that can control and save all
>internet/e-mail/telephone traffic from everywhere for a long periode.
>Great corruption is showing up in the light in Norway too, now
>between many of the tops in our militarysystem and the international
>weaponindustry. We shall also change out our old F-16 planes here in
>Norway and had 3 different planes as choices. It's going so far that
>the American ambassador here went out and said the friendship between
>our nations could be in great danger, if we don't buy the correct one.
>So, it shows up really well here, that the American weaponindustry and
>their gouvernment are walking hand in hand, whereever their power of
>weapon and money are making footprints in the world.
>
>Erling
>
>On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 18:10:28 -0700, "Deej" <noway@jose.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:478173bf@linux...
>>> Deej,
>>>
>>> I'm curious about exactly which "global realities" you think he does not
>>> understand?
>>
>>Bill & Ron says:
>>BILL MOYERS: --who own, as you say, a lot of the media out there.
>>RON PAUL: But I think it's still to this philosophy they believe in. They believe in war. And they believe in the military industrial complex. And some of these companies that are mixed in with making profits off war.
>>
>>I think that's a distorted crock, personally.
>>
>>BILL MOYERS: You remind me of something you told Tim Russet on MEET THE PRESS-- you talked about fascism. Look at this piece of tape.
>>
>>RON PAUL (on MEET THE PRESS): Were not moving toward Hitler-type fascism, but we're moving toward a softer fascism. Loss of civil liberties, corporations running the show, big government in bed with big business. So you have the military industrial complex, you have the medical industrial complex, you have the financial industry, you have the communications industry. They go to Washington and spend hundreds of millions of dollars. That's where the control is. I call that a soft form of fascism, something that is very dangerous.
>>
>>yadda yadda....and then he says:
>>
>>RON PAUL: Yeah. Now we're living in an age today in this post-9/11 atmosphere where our civil liberties are being undermined constantly. All in the name of safety and security we're supposed to give up our rights for our privacy? We're allowed now to accept the idea of secret prisons and secret renditions, and the lost of habeas corpus. This is very, very dangerous. And I don't want to get to the point where it's hard to reverse. Matter of fact, right now it's getting more difficult everyday to reverse this trend, because the American people seem to so often say, "You know I want to be-- I can't be free, if I'm not safe. So, I want my government to make me safe." And they're willing to give up their liberties. And I'm convinced that you never have to give up liberties to be safe. I think you're less safe when you give up your liberty
>>
>>I think Paul totally doesn't get the fact that due to our open society, our own laws can be used against us in time of war......except if you don't believe we are at war, in which case I say that his is dangerously in the twilight zone concerning some global realities. We have always had to take certain measures that restricted our freedoms during time of war.
>>
>> http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2001/09/47051?current Page=all
>>
>>They were measures that were deemed necessary at the time and they have also always been rescinded when the war ended. This is no different. Many of us are just in total denial that we are at war.......a very real, down and dirty, no holds barred war.
>>
>>I also think that his foriegn policy is, despite trying to put a new sole on an old shoe, isolationist, and all you have to do is look to history to see how that kind of policy has allowed conflicts to fester and escalate until we are called upon to field a massive military juggernaut in order to end a world war. If anyont thinks that war is going to go away just because we do, they are living in Disneyland. All that will happen is that we will just have to deal with a bigger mess on a larger scale than we are doing now.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I have noticed a tendency in the mainstream media to portray Ron Paul as
>>> a kook or a crazy, without stating any specific reasons whatever. That
>>> kind of covert slander of a person's sanity is really slimey IMHO.
>>> That's what people do when they are really desperate to win an argument
>>> and they have nothing.
>>>
>>> Anyway I am fed up with the apathy we face in this country about
>>> changing our government institutions and political system. I think we
>>> can do something about it, and I like that Ron Paul is standing up to
>>> say "I am the man who will do it." That takes a LOT of courage.
>>>
|
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| Re: OT Ron Paul Interviewed by Bill Moyers of PBS [message #94450 is a reply to message #94441] |
Mon, 07 January 2008 13:20 |
|
|
Agreed.. But, this dude was talking some old fashioned Texas style law making
becoming wide spread US laws..Ending the department of Education and other
things..
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>LaMont, I don't think Ron Paul is a racist, just the opposite. I think
you
>have him misunderstood. Go to his web site, look under issues and read
>what he has to say about it and watch the video. Ron Paul believes everybody
>should have the same rights. It shouldn't be any other way.
>
>http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/racism/
>
>http://www.ronpaul2008.com/
>
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>He is a complete and utter idoit who has flipped flopped thru-out his entire
>>political career.
>>
>>Tim Russert chewed him up and spat him out and exposed his true racist
self.
>> If want to know the real Ron Paul, go back and look at the interview with
>>Russert on Sunday's Meet the Press.
>>
>>Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>>>http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/01042008/watch2.html
>>>
>>>This is a very thoughtful interview. If you like Paul's message, pass
it
>>
>>>on to others who might be excited to know there is an alternative to big
>>
>>>bus- I'm sorry. I meant big government running our lives.
>>
>
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| Re: OT Ron Paul Interviewed by Bill Moyers of PBS [message #94453 is a reply to message #94430] |
Mon, 07 January 2008 14:14 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I think what RP is questioning is if Iran/Hezbollah is a threat to the US.
Hezbollah didn't 'kick ass' v. Israel last time, they were invaded and managed
not to be beaten. This is impressive tactically considering that the IDF
is the second or third best trained and equipped army in the world. But the
idea that any state or non-state military force could seriously threaten
the integrity of Israel proper is comical. Israel is a nuclear power that
everyone knows will defend itself and will receive (and has received) from
the US any help it needs.
I think the Smedley Butler line where we defend the littoral waters and that's
it is outdated at this point. In fact, I'd say it's a hell of a lot more
important to protect international shipping lanes than it is nearly any other
country in the world, from a US strategic sense (quick, you can have the
Panama canal or Boliva, what's the pick?) But I think RP makes the point
that we can't define the entire world as either a our bestest buddy (we will
defend no matter what) or our worstest enemy (we will do anything to menace.)
In addition to it being strategically insane, we can't really afford it anymore.
TCB
"Deej" <noway@jose.org> wrote:
>
>"Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote in message
>news:4781c3b9@linux...
>>I watched this when it aired. I must be missing something, because I didn't
>>think he came off like a racist, idiot or dark comedy show at all. ? I
>>don't want to discredit your opinions - I am only curious about them. Why
>>do you guys think his ideas are so bad?
>>
>> thanks doods, and peace please!,
>> -Carl
>>
>
>From my perspective, he is very unsure about the actual effect his policies
>would create, he just doesn't seem to care and his belief that Iran isn't
a
>danger and doesn't have an army. Hezbolla is their army and it's right on
>the northern border of Israel and they pretty much kicked Israel's butt
last
>go around. He's living in a firiegn policy dreamland and he would try to
>finance the US government with funds that we save while the world collapses
>into to total chaos.
>
>It just srota makes me shake my head that a US congressman could be so
>naieve.
>
>I'm pretty much on the same page with him as far as immigration goes and
his
>thinking on the welfare state issues, but neither of these issues are
>something that can be solved with the flick of a booger. If we're goint
to
>change it, it needs to have some sort of humany involved in the solution.
>You send millions of people back to countries that are coming apart because
>we withdraw from involvement there and aren't willing to reinvolve ourselves
>when the infrastructure collapses and totalitarian Chavez wannabees step
in
>to sieze the governments, you're going to have an unbelievable chaos.
>
>
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| Re: OT Ron Paul Interviewed by Bill Moyers of PBS [message #94456 is a reply to message #94451] |
Mon, 07 January 2008 15:17 |
|
|
LOL!! ROL! :) I Saw that and I was shocked and embarraresed. But, the average
American does not "Want" to know nothing. They only want to be told what
to do and thnk.
It's not the educational system's fault. The American people have tuned out
Politics as a whole. To a man, the American people after Bush 2 elections
have tuned out the Goverment nor do they have faith in the Gov. That's why
8 out of 10 don;t know who Dick Cheny is or other US current facts.
"Deej" <noway@jose.org> wrote:
>I'd say that this video is the best case I've seen for ditching the
>Department of Education and the NEA which basically controls it:
>http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:4782899f$1@linux...
>>
>> Agreed.. But, this dude was talking some old fashioned Texas style law
>> making
>> becoming wide spread US laws..Ending the department of Education and other
>> things..
>>
>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>LaMont, I don't think Ron Paul is a racist, just the opposite. I think
>> you
>>>have him misunderstood. Go to his web site, look under issues and read
>>>what he has to say about it and watch the video. Ron Paul believes
>>>everybody
>>>should have the same rights. It shouldn't be any other way.
>>>
>>>http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/racism/
>>>
>>>http://www.ronpaul2008.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>He is a complete and utter idoit who has flipped flopped thru-out his
>>>>entire
>>>>political career.
>>>>
>>>>Tim Russert chewed him up and spat him out and exposed his true racist
>> self.
>>>> If want to know the real Ron Paul, go back and look at the interview
>>>> with
>>>>Russert on Sunday's Meet the Press.
>>>>
>>>>Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>>>>>http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/01042008/watch2.html
>>>>>
>>>>>This is a very thoughtful interview. If you like Paul's message, pass
>> it
>>>>
>>>>>on to others who might be excited to know there is an alternative to
big
>>>>
>>>>>bus- I'm sorry. I meant big government running our lives.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
|
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| Re: OT Ron Paul Interviewed by Bill Moyers of PBS [message #94459 is a reply to message #94454] |
Mon, 07 January 2008 15:27 |
|
|
I Think Tim R is the best in his game. He's tough, and he does not let up
on the guest when they try to sway an answer.
You should see his (Russert's) interview of Guilliani.>Whew!! That's was
rough on Rudy. It definitly showed some contridictions in his political career.
Rudy stumbled and fumbled and got twisted up .. You could tell that he was
not ready for of those questions. Even better, you could see the "Surprise"
on face when Tim R and staff dug up some old dirt..Priceless.
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>Tim Russert is a shill for the empire, a half wit with testicles that vary
>in size precisely with the prevailing political winds.
>
>I don't happen to agree with what RP has to say about immigration, and a
>lot of other things, but how is he a racist?
>
>TCB
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>He is a complete and utter idoit who has flipped flopped thru-out his entire
>>political career.
>>
>>Tim Russert chewed him up and spat him out and exposed his true racist
self.
>> If want to know the real Ron Paul, go back and look at the interview with
>>Russert on Sunday's Meet the Press.
>>
>>Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>>>http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/01042008/watch2.html
>>>
>>>This is a very thoughtful interview. If you like Paul's message, pass
it
>>
>>>on to others who might be excited to know there is an alternative to big
>>
>>>bus- I'm sorry. I meant big government running our lives.
>>
>
|
|
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|
| Re: OT Ron Paul Interviewed by Bill Moyers of PBS [message #94462 is a reply to message #94459] |
Mon, 07 January 2008 18:10 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
His coddling of Rice and Rumsfeld leading up to the war soured me on him forever.
Beating up on more or less untested presidential candidates is one thing,
asking tough questions of a made and reckless regime, well that can lose
you a job. So he got out the knee pads and lip gloss when Condi and Rummy
dropped 'round.
You still didn't explian how RP is a racist.
TCB
"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>I Think Tim R is the best in his game. He's tough, and he does not let up
>on the guest when they try to sway an answer.
>
>You should see his (Russert's) interview of Guilliani.>Whew!! That's was
>rough on Rudy. It definitly showed some contridictions in his political
career.
>Rudy stumbled and fumbled and got twisted up .. You could tell that he was
>not ready for of those questions. Even better, you could see the "Surprise"
>on face when Tim R and staff dug up some old dirt..Priceless.
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>Tim Russert is a shill for the empire, a half wit with testicles that vary
>>in size precisely with the prevailing political winds.
>>
>>I don't happen to agree with what RP has to say about immigration, and
a
>>lot of other things, but how is he a racist?
>>
>>TCB
>>
>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>He is a complete and utter idoit who has flipped flopped thru-out his
entire
>>>political career.
>>>
>>>Tim Russert chewed him up and spat him out and exposed his true racist
>self.
>>> If want to know the real Ron Paul, go back and look at the interview
with
>>>Russert on Sunday's Meet the Press.
>>>
>>>Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>>>>http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/01042008/watch2.html
>>>>
>>>>This is a very thoughtful interview. If you like Paul's message, pass
>it
>>>
>>>>on to others who might be excited to know there is an alternative to
big
>>>
>>>>bus- I'm sorry. I meant big government running our lives.
>>>
>>
>
|
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| Re: OT Ron Paul Interviewed by Bill Moyers of PBS [message #94471 is a reply to message #94448] |
Tue, 08 January 2008 01:51 |
Erling
Messages: 156
Registered: October 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
.....who knows if not Bush knows...;-)
On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:32:57 -0500, rick <parnell68@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>aren't you guys on our "democratization" list???
>
>;o)
>
>On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:09:28 +0100, erlilo <erling.lovik@lyse.net>
>wrote:
>
>>We've got the global realities with Bush's political and corrupt
>>"fascismbehavings" here in Norway too, as in the whole EU and western
>>world. Now we've got the laws here too that can control and save all
>>internet/e-mail/telephone traffic from everywhere for a long periode.
>>Great corruption is showing up in the light in Norway too, now
>>between many of the tops in our militarysystem and the international
>>weaponindustry. We shall also change out our old F-16 planes here in
>>Norway and had 3 different planes as choices. It's going so far that
>>the American ambassador here went out and said the friendship between
>>our nations could be in great danger, if we don't buy the correct one.
>>So, it shows up really well here, that the American weaponindustry and
>>their gouvernment are walking hand in hand, whereever their power of
>>weapon and money are making footprints in the world.
>>
>>Erling
>>
>>On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 18:10:28 -0700, "Deej" <noway@jose.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:478173bf@linux...
>>>> Deej,
>>>>
>>>> I'm curious about exactly which "global realities" you think he does not
>>>> understand?
>>>
>>>Bill & Ron says:
>>>BILL MOYERS: --who own, as you say, a lot of the media out there.
>>>RON PAUL: But I think it's still to this philosophy they believe in. They believe in war. And they believe in the military industrial complex. And some of these companies that are mixed in with making profits off war.
>>>
>>>I think that's a distorted crock, personally.
>>>
>>>BILL MOYERS: You remind me of something you told Tim Russet on MEET THE PRESS-- you talked about fascism. Look at this piece of tape.
>>>
>>>RON PAUL (on MEET THE PRESS): Were not moving toward Hitler-type fascism, but we're moving toward a softer fascism. Loss of civil liberties, corporations running the show, big government in bed with big business. So you have the military industrial complex, you have the medical industrial complex, you have the financial industry, you have the communications industry. They go to Washington and spend hundreds of millions of dollars. That's where the control is. I call that a soft form of fascism, something that is very dangerous.
>>>
>>>yadda yadda....and then he says:
>>>
>>>RON PAUL: Yeah. Now we're living in an age today in this post-9/11 atmosphere where our civil liberties are being undermined constantly. All in the name of safety and security we're supposed to give up our rights for our privacy? We're allowed now to accept the idea of secret prisons and secret renditions, and the lost of habeas corpus. This is very, very dangerous. And I don't want to get to the point where it's hard to reverse. Matter of fact, right now it's getting more difficult everyday to reverse this trend, because the American people seem to so often say, "You know I want to be-- I can't be free, if I'm not safe. So, I want my government to make me safe." And they're willing to give up their liberties. And I'm convinced that you never have to give up liberties to be safe. I think you're less safe when you give up your liberty
>>>
>>>I think Paul totally doesn't get the fact that due to our open society, our own laws can be used against us in time of war......except if you don't believe we are at war, in which case I say that his is dangerously in the twilight zone concerning some global realities. We have always had to take certain measures that restricted our freedoms during time of war.
>>>
>>> http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2001/09/47051?current Page=all
>>>
>>>They were measures that were deemed necessary at the time and they have also always been rescinded when the war ended. This is no different. Many of us are just in total denial that we are at war.......a very real, down and dirty, no holds barred war.
>>>
>>>I also think that his foriegn policy is, despite trying to put a new sole on an old shoe, isolationist, and all you have to do is look to history to see how that kind of policy has allowed conflicts to fester and escalate until we are called upon to field a massive military juggernaut in order to end a world war. If anyont thinks that war is going to go away just because we do, they are living in Disneyland. All that will happen is that we will just have to deal with a bigger mess on a larger scale than we are doing now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have noticed a tendency in the mainstream media to portray Ron Paul as
>>>> a kook or a crazy, without stating any specific reasons whatever. That
>>>> kind of covert slander of a person's sanity is really slimey IMHO.
>>>> That's what people do when they are really desperate to win an argument
>>>> and they have nothing.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway I am fed up with the apathy we face in this country about
>>>> changing our government institutions and political system. I think we
>>>> can do something about it, and I like that Ron Paul is standing up to
>>>> say "I am the man who will do it." That takes a LOT of courage.
>>>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT Ron Paul Interviewed by Bill Moyers of PBS [message #94473 is a reply to message #94433] |
Tue, 08 January 2008 07:53 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I might also be asking, if I were Norwegian, exactly what's wrong with those
F-16s? Granted, Norway is menaced on one side by those notoriously warmongering
Swedes and on the other side by, um, a very large number of fish. Many of
those fish are cod, and you Norwegians have been infuriating them for a thousand
years by turning them into lutefisk. That said, cod notably lack opposable
thumbs, money, and the ability to survive outside of water for more than
a few minutes, so I don't see them as likely to acquire any significant anti-aircraft
capacity.
This brings us back to the Swedes. I've never been to Norway but I visited
Stockholm once and they might be winning in the 'Hot Nordic Babe Race' but
I'm not sure even anti-ballistic missile systems would help with that.
So, considering Norway's enviable geopolitical gifts (remote location, rough
terrain, long and difficult to breach coastline, a high quality navy, extensive
oil reserves and superb energy exploration skill, no ABBA), I might tell
that US ambassador where to stick it. A good pilot in an F-16 can defend
against nearly any damn plane in the world, and they're dirt cheap to repair
and maintain. The planes it can't defend against are owned by the US, Russia,
Israel, and India and if Norway winds up in a shooting war with one of those
countries, well, it's time to hunker down with the lutefisk and lefse and
sue for peace.
TCB
erlilo <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote:
>We've got the global realities with Bush's political and corrupt
>"fascismbehavings" here in Norway too, as in the whole EU and western
>world. Now we've got the laws here too that can control and save all
>internet/e-mail/telephone traffic from everywhere for a long periode.
>Great corruption is showing up in the light in Norway too, now
>between many of the tops in our militarysystem and the international
>weaponindustry. We shall also change out our old F-16 planes here in
>Norway and had 3 different planes as choices. It's going so far that
>the American ambassador here went out and said the friendship between
>our nations could be in great danger, if we don't buy the correct one.
>So, it shows up really well here, that the American weaponindustry and
>their gouvernment are walking hand in hand, whereever their power of
>weapon and money are making footprints in the world.
>
>Erling
>
>On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 18:10:28 -0700, "Deej" <noway@jose.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:478173bf@linux...
>>> Deej,
>>>
>>> I'm curious about exactly which "global realities" you think he does
not
>>> understand?
>>
>>Bill & Ron says:
>>BILL MOYERS: --who own, as you say, a lot of the media out there.
>>RON PAUL: But I think it's still to this philosophy they believe in. They
believe in
>war. And they believe in the military industrial complex. And some of these
companies
>that are mixed in with making profits off war.
>>
>>I think that's a distorted crock, personally.
>>
>>BILL MOYERS: You remind me of something you told Tim Russet on MEET THE
PRESS-- you
>talked about fascism. Look at this piece of tape.
>>
>>RON PAUL (on MEET THE PRESS): Were not moving toward Hitler-type fascism,
but we're
>moving toward a softer fascism. Loss of civil liberties, corporations running
the show,
>big government in bed with big business. So you have the military industrial
complex,
>you have the medical industrial complex, you have the financial industry,
you have
>the communications industry. They go to Washington and spend hundreds of
millions of
>dollars. That's where the control is. I call that a soft form of fascism,
>something that is very dangerous.
>>
>>yadda yadda....and then he says:
>>
>>RON PAUL: Yeah. Now we're living in an age today in this post-9/11 atmosphere
where
>our civil liberties are being undermined constantly. All in the name of
safety and
>security we're supposed to give up our rights for our privacy? We're allowed
now to
>accept the idea of secret prisons and secret renditions, and the lost of
habeas corpus.
>This is very, very dangerous. And I don't want to get to the point where
it's hard
>to reverse. Matter of fact, right now it's getting more difficult everyday
to
>reverse this trend, because the American people seem to so often say, "You
know I want
>to be-- I can't be free, if I'm not safe. So, I want my government to make
me safe."
>And they're willing to give up their liberties. And I'm convinced that you
never have
>to give up liberties to be safe. I think you're less safe when you give
up your liberty
>>
>>I think Paul totally doesn't get the fact that due to our open society,
our own laws
>can be used against us in time of war......except if you don't believe we
are at war,
>in which case I say that his is dangerously in the twilight zone concerning
some global
>realities. We have always had to take certain measures that restricted our
freedoms
>during time of war.
>>
>> http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2001/09/47051?current Page=all
>>
>>They were measures that were deemed necessary at the time and they have
also always
>been rescinded when the war ended. This is no different. Many of us are
just in total
>denial that we are at war.......a very real, down and dirty, no holds barred
war.
>>
>>I also think that his foriegn policy is, despite trying to put a new sole
on an old
>shoe, isolationist, and all you have to do is look to history to see how
that kind
>of policy has allowed conflicts to fester and escalate until we are called
upon to
>field a massive military juggernaut in order to end a world war. If anyont
thinks that
>war is going to go away just because we do, they are living in Disneyland.
All that
>will happen is that we will just have to deal with a bigger mess on a larger
scale
>than we are doing now.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I have noticed a tendency in the mainstream media to portray Ron Paul
as
>>> a kook or a crazy, without stating any specific reasons whatever. That
>>> kind of covert slander of a person's sanity is really slimey IMHO.
>>> That's what people do when they are really desperate to win an argument
>>> and they have nothing.
>>>
>>> Anyway I am fed up with the apathy we face in this country about
>>> changing our government institutions and political system. I think we
>>> can do something about it, and I like that Ron Paul is standing up to
>>> say "I am the man who will do it." That takes a LOT of courage.
>>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT Ron Paul Interviewed by Bill Moyers of PBS [message #94480 is a reply to message #94473] |
Tue, 08 January 2008 10:42 |
Erling
Messages: 156
Registered: October 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
There's not anything wrong with those F-16, other than the American
saying they have been toooooo ooooold for what's happening now. The
American want to sell this plane:
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/fighter/f35/ , but we don't know
how much lutefisk and lefse the US are willing to buy back or if they
want these kind of food at all;-)
EU wanted to sell this: http://www.eurofighter.com/ and love to buy
and eat our klipp/lutefisk and lefse but understand how the American
are willing to try to eat all we can export of these kind of food, if
we are buying 48 American planes. So EU jumped of that flight-wagon
when understanding that the Amercan wanted to give up McDonalds and
broilerchickens for Norwegian specialfood.
So now it's our bigbrother neighbour Sweden, that have a great kind of
echonomical weddingplans to show up with for us, if we want to buy
this plane: http://www.gripen.com/en/index.htm
So now Norway is behaving like a lady that wants a solid echonomical
safety, with two suitors that's doing nearly everything to get merried
with us, just to get some lutefish and lepse baked in North Sea Oil
back. Yes, we have a new product here to sell, not the old King Oscar
Sardines in old fat oil. That's being too old for me to remember, the
taste.
By the way, they were showing up Gripen here in the summertime, with
F-16 too - and the American is right when saying F-16 is toooo oooold.
Gripen had no problems at all to show this up on everything.
A flying story from Norway, with lutefisk, lefse and some love
searching military planepartners;-)
On 9 Jan 2008 01:53:31 +1000, "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>I might also be asking, if I were Norwegian, exactly what's wrong with those
>F-16s? Granted, Norway is menaced on one side by those notoriously warmongering
>Swedes and on the other side by, um, a very large number of fish. Many of
>those fish are cod, and you Norwegians have been infuriating them for a thousand
>years by turning them into lutefisk. That said, cod notably lack opposable
>thumbs, money, and the ability to survive outside of water for more than
>a few minutes, so I don't see them as likely to acquire any significant anti-aircraft
>capacity.
>
>This brings us back to the Swedes. I've never been to Norway but I visited
>Stockholm once and they might be winning in the 'Hot Nordic Babe Race' but
>I'm not sure even anti-ballistic missile systems would help with that.
>
>So, considering Norway's enviable geopolitical gifts (remote location, rough
>terrain, long and difficult to breach coastline, a high quality navy, extensive
>oil reserves and superb energy exploration skill, no ABBA), I might tell
>that US ambassador where to stick it. A good pilot in an F-16 can defend
>against nearly any damn plane in the world, and they're dirt cheap to repair
>and maintain. The planes it can't defend against are owned by the US, Russia,
>Israel, and India and if Norway winds up in a shooting war with one of those
>countries, well, it's time to hunker down with the lutefisk and lefse and
>sue for peace.
>
>TCB
>
>erlilo <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote:
>>We've got the global realities with Bush's political and corrupt
>>"fascismbehavings" here in Norway too, as in the whole EU and western
>>world. Now we've got the laws here too that can control and save all
>>internet/e-mail/telephone traffic from everywhere for a long periode.
>>Great corruption is showing up in the light in Norway too, now
>>between many of the tops in our militarysystem and the international
>>weaponindustry. We shall also change out our old F-16 planes here in
>>Norway and had 3 different planes as choices. It's going so far that
>>the American ambassador here went out and said the friendship between
>>our nations could be in great danger, if we don't buy the correct one.
>>So, it shows up really well here, that the American weaponindustry and
>>their gouvernment are walking hand in hand, whereever their power of
>>weapon and money are making footprints in the world.
>>
>>Erling
>>
>>On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 18:10:28 -0700, "Deej" <noway@jose.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:478173bf@linux...
>>>> Deej,
>>>>
>>>> I'm curious about exactly which "global realities" you think he does
>not
>>>> understand?
>>>
>>>Bill & Ron says:
>>>BILL MOYERS: --who own, as you say, a lot of the media out there.
>>>RON PAUL: But I think it's still to this philosophy they believe in. They
>believe in
>>war. And they believe in the military industrial complex. And some of these
>companies
>>that are mixed in with making profits off war.
>>>
>>>I think that's a distorted crock, personally.
>>>
>>>BILL MOYERS: You remind me of something you told Tim Russet on MEET THE
>PRESS-- you
>>talked about fascism. Look at this piece of tape.
>>>
>>>RON PAUL (on MEET THE PRESS): Were not moving toward Hitler-type fascism,
>but we're
>>moving toward a softer fascism. Loss of civil liberties, corporations running
>the show,
>>big government in bed with big business. So you have the military industrial
>complex,
>>you have the medical industrial complex, you have the financial industry,
>you have
>>the communications industry. They go to Washington and spend hundreds of
>millions of
>>dollars. That's where the control is. I call that a soft form of fascism,
>>something that is very dangerous.
>>>
>>>yadda yadda....and then he says:
>>>
>>>RON PAUL: Yeah. Now we're living in an age today in this post-9/11 atmosphere
>where
>>our civil liberties are being undermined constantly. All in the name of
>safety and
>>security we're supposed to give up our rights for our privacy? We're allowed
>now to
>>accept the idea of secret prisons and secret renditions, and the lost of
>habeas corpus.
>>This is very, very dangerous. And I don't want to get to the point where
>it's hard
>>to reverse. Matter of fact, right now it's getting more difficult everyday
>to
>>reverse this trend, because the American people seem to so often say, "You
>know I want
>>to be-- I can't be free, if I'm not safe. So, I want my government to make
>me safe."
>>And they're willing to give up their liberties. And I'm convinced that you
>never have
>>to give up liberties to be safe. I think you're less safe when you give
>up your liberty
>>>
>>>I think Paul totally doesn't get the fact that due to our open society,
>our own laws
>>can be used against us in time of war......except if you don't believe we
>are at war,
>>in which case I say that his is dangerously in the twilight zone concerning
>some global
>>realities. We have always had to take certain measures that restricted our
>freedoms
>>during time of war.
>>>
>>> http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2001/09/47051?current Page=all
>>>
>>>They were measures that were deemed necessary at the time and they have
>also always
>>been rescinded when the war ended. This is no different. Many of us are
>just in total
>>denial that we are at war.......a very real, down and dirty, no holds barred
>war.
>>>
>>>I also think that his foriegn policy is, despite trying to put a new sole
>on an old
>>shoe, isolationist, and all you have to do is look to history to see how
>that kind
>>of policy has allowed conflicts to fester and escalate until we are called
>upon to
>>field a massive military juggernaut in order to end a world war. If anyont
>thinks that
>>war is going to go away just because we do, they are living in Disneyland.
>All that
>>will happen is that we will just have to deal with a bigger mess on a larger
>scale
>>than we are doing now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have noticed a tendency in the mainstream media to portray Ron Paul
>as
>>>> a kook or a crazy, without stating any specific reasons whatever. That
>
>>>> kind of covert slander of a person's sanity is really slimey IMHO.
>>>> That's what people do when they are really desperate to win an argument
>
>>>> and they have nothing.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway I am fed up with the apathy we face in this country about
>>>> changing our government institutions and political system. I think we
>
>>>> can do something about it, and I like that Ron Paul is standing up to
>
>>>> say "I am the man who will do it." That takes a LOT of courage.
>>>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT Ron Paul Interviewed by Bill Moyers of PBS [message #94483 is a reply to message #94473] |
Tue, 08 January 2008 10:57 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
LOL
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
TCB wrote:
> I might also be asking, if I were Norwegian, exactly what's wrong with those
> F-16s? Granted, Norway is menaced on one side by those notoriously warmongering
> Swedes and on the other side by, um, a very large number of fish. Many of
> those fish are cod, and you Norwegians have been infuriating them for a thousand
> years by turning them into lutefisk. That said, cod notably lack opposable
> thumbs, money, and the ability to survive outside of water for more than
> a few minutes, so I don't see them as likely to acquire any significant anti-aircraft
> capacity.
>
> This brings us back to the Swedes. I've never been to Norway but I visited
> Stockholm once and they might be winning in the 'Hot Nordic Babe Race' but
> I'm not sure even anti-ballistic missile systems would help with that.
>
> So, considering Norway's enviable geopolitical gifts (remote location, rough
> terrain, long and difficult to breach coastline, a high quality navy, extensive
> oil reserves and superb energy exploration skill, no ABBA), I might tell
> that US ambassador where to stick it. A good pilot in an F-16 can defend
> against nearly any damn plane in the world, and they're dirt cheap to repair
> and maintain. The planes it can't defend against are owned by the US, Russia,
> Israel, and India and if Norway winds up in a shooting war with one of those
> countries, well, it's time to hunker down with the lutefisk and lefse and
> sue for peace.
>
> TCB
>
> erlilo <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote:
>> We've got the global realities with Bush's political and corrupt
>> "fascismbehavings" here in Norway too, as in the whole EU and western
>> world. Now we've got the laws here too that can control and save all
>> internet/e-mail/telephone traffic from everywhere for a long periode.
>> Great corruption is showing up in the light in Norway too, now
>> between many of the tops in our militarysystem and the international
>> weaponindustry. We shall also change out our old F-16 planes here in
>> Norway and had 3 different planes as choices. It's going so far that
>> the American ambassador here went out and said the friendship between
>> our nations could be in great danger, if we don't buy the correct one.
>> So, it shows up really well here, that the American weaponindustry and
>> their gouvernment are walking hand in hand, whereever their power of
>> weapon and money are making footprints in the world.
>>
>> Erling
>>
>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 18:10:28 -0700, "Deej" <noway@jose.org> wrote:
>>
>>> "Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:478173bf@linux...
>>>> Deej,
>>>>
>>>> I'm curious about exactly which "global realities" you think he does
> not
>>>> understand?
>>> Bill & Ron says:
>>> BILL MOYERS: --who own, as you say, a lot of the media out there.
>>> RON PAUL: But I think it's still to this philosophy they believe in. They
> believe in
>> war. And they believe in the military industrial complex. And some of these
> companies
>> that are mixed in with making profits off war.
>>> I think that's a distorted crock, personally.
>>>
>>> BILL MOYERS: You remind me of something you told Tim Russet on MEET THE
> PRESS-- you
>> talked about fascism. Look at this piece of tape.
>>> RON PAUL (on MEET THE PRESS): Were not moving toward Hitler-type fascism,
> but we're
>> moving toward a softer fascism. Loss of civil liberties, corporations running
> the show,
>> big government in bed with big business. So you have the military industrial
> complex,
>> you have the medical industrial complex, you have the financial industry,
> you have
>> the communications industry. They go to Washington and spend hundreds of
> millions of
>> dollars. That's where the control is. I call that a soft form of fascism,
>> something that is very dangerous.
>>> yadda yadda....and then he says:
>>>
>>> RON PAUL: Yeah. Now we're living in an age today in this post-9/11 atmosphere
> where
>> our civil liberties are being undermined constantly. All in the name of
> safety and
>> security we're supposed to give up our rights for our privacy? We're allowed
> now to
>> accept the idea of secret prisons and secret renditions, and the lost of
> habeas corpus.
>> This is very, very dangerous. And I don't want to get to the point where
> it's hard
>> to reverse. Matter of fact, right now it's getting more difficult everyday
> to
>> reverse this trend, because the American people seem to so often say, "You
> know I want
>> to be-- I can't be free, if I'm not safe. So, I want my government to make
> me safe."
>> And they're willing to give up their liberties. And I'm convinced that you
> never have
>> to give up liberties to be safe. I think you're less safe when you give
> up your liberty
>>> I think Paul totally doesn't get the fact that due to our open society,
> our own laws
>> can be used against us in time of war......except if you don't believe we
> are at war,
>> in which case I say that his is dangerously in the twilight zone concerning
> some global
>> realities. We have always had to take certain measures that restricted our
> freedoms
>> during time of war.
>>> http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2001/09/47051?current Page=all
>>>
>>> They were measures that were deemed necessary at the time and they have
> also always
>> been rescinded when the war ended. This is no different. Many of us are
> just in total
>> denial that we are at war.......a very real, down and dirty, no holds barred
> war.
>>> I also think that his foriegn policy is, despite trying to put a new sole
> on an old
>> shoe, isolationist, and all you have to do is look to history to see how
> that kind
>> of policy has allowed conflicts to fester and escalate until we are called
> upon to
>> field a massive military juggernaut in order to end a world war. If anyont
> thinks that
>> war is going to go away just because we do, they are living in Disneyland.
> All that
>> will happen is that we will just have to deal with a bigger mess on a larger
> scale
>> than we are doing now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I have noticed a tendency in the mainstream media to portray Ron Paul
> as
>>>> a kook or a crazy, without stating any specific reasons whatever. That
>
>>>> kind of covert slander of a person's sanity is really slimey IMHO.
>>>> That's what people do when they are really desperate to win an argument
>
>>>> and they have nothing.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway I am fed up with the apathy we face in this country about
>>>> changing our government institutions and political system. I think we
>
>>>> can do something about it, and I like that Ron Paul is standing up to
>
>>>> say "I am the man who will do it." That takes a LOT of courage.
>>>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT Ron Paul Interviewed by Bill Moyers of PBS [message #94484 is a reply to message #94480] |
Tue, 08 January 2008 11:00 |
Deej
Messages: 130
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"erlilo" <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote in message
news:3ca7o3p8nebmc72k86l1pj83pqm6a9ksv1@4ax.com...
> There's not anything wrong with those F-16, other than the American
> saying they have been toooooo ooooold for what's happening now. The
> American want to sell this plane:
> http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/fighter/f35/ , but we don't know
> how much lutefisk and lefse the US are willing to buy back or if they
> want these kind of food at all;-)
> EU wanted to sell this: http://www.eurofighter.com/ and love to buy
> and eat our klipp/lutefisk and lefse but understand how the American
> are willing to try to eat all we can export of these kind of food, if
> we are buying 48 American planes. So EU jumped of that flight-wagon
> when understanding that the Amercan wanted to give up McDonalds and
> broilerchickens for Norwegian specialfood.
> So now it's our bigbrother neighbour Sweden, that have a great kind of
> echonomical weddingplans to show up with for us, if we want to buy
> this plane: http://www.gripen.com/en/index.htm
> So now Norway is behaving like a lady that wants a solid echonomical
> safety, with two suitors that's doing nearly everything to get merried
> with us, just to get some lutefish and lepse baked in North Sea Oil
> back. Yes, we have a new product here to sell, not the old King Oscar
> Sardines in old fat oil. That's being too old for me to remember, the
> taste.
>
> By the way, they were showing up Gripen here in the summertime, with
> F-16 too - and the American is right when saying F-16 is toooo oooold.
> Gripen had no problems at all to show this up on everything.
>
> A flying story from Norway, with lutefisk, lefse and some love
> searching military planepartners;-)
>
I really think that Norway should buy the Euroofferings. . You're going to
have a hard time getting tech support from the US if RP is elected, (not
that you would want it anyway, since it is American wnd Americans are evil)
and you may need them since we will be withdrawing from participation in
world affairs so when the Russians come calling, Europe should be ready
because we will not be.
|
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