Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Big Ben and DAC1
| Big Ben and DAC1 [message #87946] |
Wed, 11 July 2007 11:50  |
Wayne Carson
Messages: 86
Registered: June 2007
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Member |
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Hi all,
It's been a week since I hooked up the benchmark and clock to my simple
1-MEC w/two 8-in, 2-EDS, 1-C16 system. I used 3' apogee cables on both and
one 75 ohm term on the MEC s/pdif out. I did not use a bnc "T".
It made a wonderful difference. I set the BB clock to internal at 44.1k and
used the bnc out to the MEC. I set Paris to word clock. That's it. It
locks at 44.1. I think I can even hear jitter on previously recorded stuff,
specifically on vocals when solo'ed, but then again it could be the coffee!
I've run 8 completely different song mixes that I am working on and it is so
much easier to find and correct things and so far appears to translate very
similar to my simple home stereo system, bedroom Bose/CD wave radio and '04
Honda Accord car sound system. And that's what it's all about for me. This
should make for a whole lot less trial and error mixing. My '06 Tundra
truck sound system is not even close, but that's another issue.
In my studio, I individually A/B'd the clock and the DAC against the Paris
L/R monitor out and internal clock. In each case the clock and/or the DAC
cleaned up the low/mid mushiness, allowed the kick to be heard with the bass
and not a boom but a punch, spaced out the depth, ambiance and stereo field
and overall gave clarity to the mix. Paris EDS efx's are more
distinguishable now.
Previously I used the Paris L/R monitor out to my 1604vlz (ch 15-16) trim
off, eq flat, level at unity and the main's out to my Alesis RA-100 (yah, I
know it's not so good, but I thought I was getting a decent flat ref amp
when I bought it back in '96.) to yama's NS-10's and a sub under my desk for
fill and to curl my toes.
I was very suprised to find out how bad the Mackie colored the sound. A
very noticable harshness around 1-2khz and possibly higher, lack of warmth
between 100-300hz and just an overall sound like crowded, cramped, busy and
flat tonality. Tweaking the 3 eq's helps but only removed about half the
problem. This is compared to the MEC digita s/pdif out to the DAC1 and it's
XLR outs to the RA-100 to the NS-10s. This sound was warm and round, almost
surround. It put a smile on my face.
I'm a happy camper. Special thanks to Dave, Kim, DJ, Miguel, Jeff and Neil.
I guess my next purchase will be an appropriate reference pwr amp.
Thanks,
Wayne
Paris since '97
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| Re: Big Ben and DAC1 [message #87949 is a reply to message #87946] |
Wed, 11 July 2007 12:09  |
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Does the DAC-1 automatically take it's clock from the Big Ben?
Gantt
"Wayne Carson" <carson_wayne@msn.com> wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>It's been a week since I hooked up the benchmark and clock to my simple
>1-MEC w/two 8-in, 2-EDS, 1-C16 system. I used 3' apogee cables on both
and
>one 75 ohm term on the MEC s/pdif out. I did not use a bnc "T".
>
>It made a wonderful difference. I set the BB clock to internal at 44.1k
and
>used the bnc out to the MEC. I set Paris to word clock. That's it. It
>locks at 44.1. I think I can even hear jitter on previously recorded stuff,
>specifically on vocals when solo'ed, but then again it could be the coffee!
>
>I've run 8 completely different song mixes that I am working on and it is
so
>much easier to find and correct things and so far appears to translate very
>similar to my simple home stereo system, bedroom Bose/CD wave radio and
'04
>Honda Accord car sound system. And that's what it's all about for me.
This
>should make for a whole lot less trial and error mixing. My '06 Tundra
>truck sound system is not even close, but that's another issue.
>
>In my studio, I individually A/B'd the clock and the DAC against the Paris
>L/R monitor out and internal clock. In each case the clock and/or the DAC
>cleaned up the low/mid mushiness, allowed the kick to be heard with the
bass
>and not a boom but a punch, spaced out the depth, ambiance and stereo field
>and overall gave clarity to the mix. Paris EDS efx's are more
>distinguishable now.
>
>Previously I used the Paris L/R monitor out to my 1604vlz (ch 15-16) trim
>off, eq flat, level at unity and the main's out to my Alesis RA-100 (yah,
I
>know it's not so good, but I thought I was getting a decent flat ref amp
>when I bought it back in '96.) to yama's NS-10's and a sub under my desk
for
>fill and to curl my toes.
>
>I was very suprised to find out how bad the Mackie colored the sound. A
>very noticable harshness around 1-2khz and possibly higher, lack of warmth
>between 100-300hz and just an overall sound like crowded, cramped, busy
and
>flat tonality. Tweaking the 3 eq's helps but only removed about half the
>problem. This is compared to the MEC digita s/pdif out to the DAC1 and it's
>XLR outs to the RA-100 to the NS-10s. This sound was warm and round, almost
>surround. It put a smile on my face.
>
>I'm a happy camper. Special thanks to Dave, Kim, DJ, Miguel, Jeff and Neil.
>I guess my next purchase will be an appropriate reference pwr amp.
>
>Thanks,
>Wayne
>Paris since '97
>
>
Gantt Kushner
Gizmo Recording Company
Silver Spring, MD
www.gizmorecording.com
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| Re: Big Ben and DAC1 [message #87954 is a reply to message #87946] |
Wed, 11 July 2007 13:43 |
BradLyons
Messages: 36
Registered: July 2007
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Member |
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|
Yep! Clocking is quite important, and many are surprised at just how much
of a different a BigBen makes in most situations. I am running a BigBen
in one of my studios, primarily because without it--nothing could function
(I have multiple devices connected digitally as well as locked to house sync
across multiple locations). I use the Apogee MiniDAC off of my Digidesign
192I/O, but the DAC1 kicks butt too!
As to a better amp....NO NO NO, honestly--get some new monitors. The reality
is if you're using NS10's, you're really missing out on a lot of other details.
Without spending much money, check out the ADAM A7's. I own a set of the
P33A's as well as a pair of the S1A's and one of the 10" ADAM subs. I'm
getting ready to get a second 10" sub and (5) A7's for surround....you'll
be stunned when you mix on these things, seriously.
Brad Lyons- Sweetwater
www.audioandmidi.com
"Wayne Carson" <carson_wayne@msn.com> wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>It's been a week since I hooked up the benchmark and clock to my simple
>1-MEC w/two 8-in, 2-EDS, 1-C16 system. I used 3' apogee cables on both
and
>one 75 ohm term on the MEC s/pdif out. I did not use a bnc "T".
>
>It made a wonderful difference. I set the BB clock to internal at 44.1k
and
>used the bnc out to the MEC. I set Paris to word clock. That's it. It
>locks at 44.1. I think I can even hear jitter on previously recorded stuff,
>specifically on vocals when solo'ed, but then again it could be the coffee!
>
>I've run 8 completely different song mixes that I am working on and it is
so
>much easier to find and correct things and so far appears to translate very
>similar to my simple home stereo system, bedroom Bose/CD wave radio and
'04
>Honda Accord car sound system. And that's what it's all about for me.
This
>should make for a whole lot less trial and error mixing. My '06 Tundra
>truck sound system is not even close, but that's another issue.
>
>In my studio, I individually A/B'd the clock and the DAC against the Paris
>L/R monitor out and internal clock. In each case the clock and/or the DAC
>cleaned up the low/mid mushiness, allowed the kick to be heard with the
bass
>and not a boom but a punch, spaced out the depth, ambiance and stereo field
>and overall gave clarity to the mix. Paris EDS efx's are more
>distinguishable now.
>
>Previously I used the Paris L/R monitor out to my 1604vlz (ch 15-16) trim
>off, eq flat, level at unity and the main's out to my Alesis RA-100 (yah,
I
>know it's not so good, but I thought I was getting a decent flat ref amp
>when I bought it back in '96.) to yama's NS-10's and a sub under my desk
for
>fill and to curl my toes.
>
>I was very suprised to find out how bad the Mackie colored the sound. A
>very noticable harshness around 1-2khz and possibly higher, lack of warmth
>between 100-300hz and just an overall sound like crowded, cramped, busy
and
>flat tonality. Tweaking the 3 eq's helps but only removed about half the
>problem. This is compared to the MEC digita s/pdif out to the DAC1 and it's
>XLR outs to the RA-100 to the NS-10s. This sound was warm and round, almost
>surround. It put a smile on my face.
>
>I'm a happy camper. Special thanks to Dave, Kim, DJ, Miguel, Jeff and Neil.
>I guess my next purchase will be an appropriate reference pwr amp.
>
>Thanks,
>Wayne
>Paris since '97
>
>
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| Re: Big Ben and DAC1 [message #87968 is a reply to message #87946] |
Wed, 11 July 2007 19:41 |
Bill L
Messages: 766
Registered: August 2006
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Senior Member |
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Wayne, I'm curious how much difference you would hear if you clocked
Paris to the DAC1 alone? Have you listened to that?
Wayne Carson wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> It's been a week since I hooked up the benchmark and clock to my simple
> 1-MEC w/two 8-in, 2-EDS, 1-C16 system. I used 3' apogee cables on both and
> one 75 ohm term on the MEC s/pdif out. I did not use a bnc "T".
>
> It made a wonderful difference. I set the BB clock to internal at 44.1k and
> used the bnc out to the MEC. I set Paris to word clock. That's it. It
> locks at 44.1. I think I can even hear jitter on previously recorded stuff,
> specifically on vocals when solo'ed, but then again it could be the coffee!
>
> I've run 8 completely different song mixes that I am working on and it is so
> much easier to find and correct things and so far appears to translate very
> similar to my simple home stereo system, bedroom Bose/CD wave radio and '04
> Honda Accord car sound system. And that's what it's all about for me. This
> should make for a whole lot less trial and error mixing. My '06 Tundra
> truck sound system is not even close, but that's another issue.
>
> In my studio, I individually A/B'd the clock and the DAC against the Paris
> L/R monitor out and internal clock. In each case the clock and/or the DAC
> cleaned up the low/mid mushiness, allowed the kick to be heard with the bass
> and not a boom but a punch, spaced out the depth, ambiance and stereo field
> and overall gave clarity to the mix. Paris EDS efx's are more
> distinguishable now.
>
> Previously I used the Paris L/R monitor out to my 1604vlz (ch 15-16) trim
> off, eq flat, level at unity and the main's out to my Alesis RA-100 (yah, I
> know it's not so good, but I thought I was getting a decent flat ref amp
> when I bought it back in '96.) to yama's NS-10's and a sub under my desk for
> fill and to curl my toes.
>
> I was very suprised to find out how bad the Mackie colored the sound. A
> very noticable harshness around 1-2khz and possibly higher, lack of warmth
> between 100-300hz and just an overall sound like crowded, cramped, busy and
> flat tonality. Tweaking the 3 eq's helps but only removed about half the
> problem. This is compared to the MEC digita s/pdif out to the DAC1 and it's
> XLR outs to the RA-100 to the NS-10s. This sound was warm and round, almost
> surround. It put a smile on my face.
>
> I'm a happy camper. Special thanks to Dave, Kim, DJ, Miguel, Jeff and Neil.
> I guess my next purchase will be an appropriate reference pwr amp.
>
> Thanks,
> Wayne
> Paris since '97
>
>
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| Re: Big Ben and DAC1 [message #87970 is a reply to message #87946] |
Wed, 11 July 2007 20:59 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
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Glad you got this happening. The DAC-1, just on it's own, will reveal a
whole lot of things you weren't hearing before. Having the BB clocking the
system will be a big plus during tracking because your A/D's will be more
accurate and any D/A's that are sending signal to a cue system or outboard
FX will sound more open and defined.
Good move.
;o)
"Wayne Carson" <carson_wayne@msn.com> wrote in message
news:469527f6@linux...
> Hi all,
>
> It's been a week since I hooked up the benchmark and clock to my simple
> 1-MEC w/two 8-in, 2-EDS, 1-C16 system. I used 3' apogee cables on both
> and one 75 ohm term on the MEC s/pdif out. I did not use a bnc "T".
>
> It made a wonderful difference. I set the BB clock to internal at 44.1k
> and used the bnc out to the MEC. I set Paris to word clock. That's it.
> It locks at 44.1. I think I can even hear jitter on previously recorded
> stuff, specifically on vocals when solo'ed, but then again it could be the
> coffee!
>
> I've run 8 completely different song mixes that I am working on and it is
> so much easier to find and correct things and so far appears to translate
> very similar to my simple home stereo system, bedroom Bose/CD wave radio
> and '04 Honda Accord car sound system. And that's what it's all about for
> me. This should make for a whole lot less trial and error mixing. My '06
> Tundra truck sound system is not even close, but that's another issue.
>
> In my studio, I individually A/B'd the clock and the DAC against the Paris
> L/R monitor out and internal clock. In each case the clock and/or the DAC
> cleaned up the low/mid mushiness, allowed the kick to be heard with the
> bass and not a boom but a punch, spaced out the depth, ambiance and stereo
> field and overall gave clarity to the mix. Paris EDS efx's are more
> distinguishable now.
>
> Previously I used the Paris L/R monitor out to my 1604vlz (ch 15-16) trim
> off, eq flat, level at unity and the main's out to my Alesis RA-100 (yah,
> I know it's not so good, but I thought I was getting a decent flat ref amp
> when I bought it back in '96.) to yama's NS-10's and a sub under my desk
> for fill and to curl my toes.
>
> I was very suprised to find out how bad the Mackie colored the sound. A
> very noticable harshness around 1-2khz and possibly higher, lack of warmth
> between 100-300hz and just an overall sound like crowded, cramped, busy
> and flat tonality. Tweaking the 3 eq's helps but only removed about half
> the problem. This is compared to the MEC digita s/pdif out to the DAC1 and
> it's XLR outs to the RA-100 to the NS-10s. This sound was warm and round,
> almost surround. It put a smile on my face.
>
> I'm a happy camper. Special thanks to Dave, Kim, DJ, Miguel, Jeff and
> Neil. I guess my next purchase will be an appropriate reference pwr amp.
>
> Thanks,
> Wayne
> Paris since '97
>
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| Re: Big Ben and DAC1 [message #87978 is a reply to message #87949] |
Thu, 12 July 2007 00:21 |
Wayne Carson
Messages: 86
Registered: June 2007
|
Member |
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|
Gantt,
No. The DAC does not have a clock input or output. I thought the same
thing at first.
According to the Benchmark DAC manual the DAC has it's own clock, sort of .
.. . It has something called UltraLock and is 100% jitter immune. It's an
internal D/A conversion clock.
In my studio the Big Ben is only used to clock one MEC.
You can download the user manuals at both sites.
Wayne
"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:46952afb$1@linux...
>
> Does the DAC-1 automatically take it's clock from the Big Ben?
>
> Gantt
>
> "Wayne Carson" <carson_wayne@msn.com> wrote:
>>Hi all,
>>
>>It's been a week since I hooked up the benchmark and clock to my simple
>
>>1-MEC w/two 8-in, 2-EDS, 1-C16 system. I used 3' apogee cables on both
> and
>>one 75 ohm term on the MEC s/pdif out. I did not use a bnc "T".
>>
>>It made a wonderful difference. I set the BB clock to internal at 44.1k
> and
>>used the bnc out to the MEC. I set Paris to word clock. That's it. It
>
>>locks at 44.1. I think I can even hear jitter on previously recorded
>>stuff,
>
>>specifically on vocals when solo'ed, but then again it could be the
>>coffee!
>>
>>I've run 8 completely different song mixes that I am working on and it is
> so
>>much easier to find and correct things and so far appears to translate
>>very
>
>>similar to my simple home stereo system, bedroom Bose/CD wave radio and
> '04
>>Honda Accord car sound system. And that's what it's all about for me.
> This
>>should make for a whole lot less trial and error mixing. My '06 Tundra
>
>>truck sound system is not even close, but that's another issue.
>>
>>In my studio, I individually A/B'd the clock and the DAC against the Paris
>
>>L/R monitor out and internal clock. In each case the clock and/or the DAC
>
>>cleaned up the low/mid mushiness, allowed the kick to be heard with the
> bass
>>and not a boom but a punch, spaced out the depth, ambiance and stereo
>>field
>
>>and overall gave clarity to the mix. Paris EDS efx's are more
>>distinguishable now.
>>
>>Previously I used the Paris L/R monitor out to my 1604vlz (ch 15-16) trim
>
>>off, eq flat, level at unity and the main's out to my Alesis RA-100 (yah,
> I
>>know it's not so good, but I thought I was getting a decent flat ref amp
>
>>when I bought it back in '96.) to yama's NS-10's and a sub under my desk
> for
>>fill and to curl my toes.
>>
>>I was very suprised to find out how bad the Mackie colored the sound. A
>
>>very noticable harshness around 1-2khz and possibly higher, lack of warmth
>
>>between 100-300hz and just an overall sound like crowded, cramped, busy
> and
>>flat tonality. Tweaking the 3 eq's helps but only removed about half the
>
>>problem. This is compared to the MEC digita s/pdif out to the DAC1 and
>>it's
>
>>XLR outs to the RA-100 to the NS-10s. This sound was warm and round,
>>almost
>
>>surround. It put a smile on my face.
>>
>>I'm a happy camper. Special thanks to Dave, Kim, DJ, Miguel, Jeff and
>>Neil.
>
>>I guess my next purchase will be an appropriate reference pwr amp.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Wayne
>>Paris since '97
>>
>>
>
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| Re: Big Ben and DAC1 [message #87979 is a reply to message #87968] |
Thu, 12 July 2007 00:30 |
Wayne Carson
Messages: 86
Registered: June 2007
|
Member |
|
|
Bill,
I did that, . . . sort of. The DAC has no clock in's or outs. I did run
Paris on internal clock and took the digital s/pdif out of the MEC to the
DAC and to the monitors and this is where I heard the biggest improvement.
Then I listened to my monitors without the DAC (my previous setup) and
clocked it with the Big Ben. It sounded more stable if you can understand
what I mean and did clean up the sound also, but not as dramatic or
noticable as with the DAC test.
Everything I listened to was recorded on Paris internal so my initial
recordings used Paris's A/D and internal clock. I think I can hear a little
flutter in my recordings which I didn't hear before. I believe DJ is right.
Once I record with the Big Ben I'll probably truely hear the clarity and
separation.
Wayne
"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:46959638@linux...
> Wayne, I'm curious how much difference you would hear if you clocked Paris
> to the DAC1 alone? Have you listened to that?
>
> Wayne Carson wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> It's been a week since I hooked up the benchmark and clock to my simple
>> 1-MEC w/two 8-in, 2-EDS, 1-C16 system. I used 3' apogee cables on both
>> and one 75 ohm term on the MEC s/pdif out. I did not use a bnc "T".
>>
>> It made a wonderful difference. I set the BB clock to internal at 44.1k
>> and used the bnc out to the MEC. I set Paris to word clock. That's it.
>> It locks at 44.1. I think I can even hear jitter on previously recorded
>> stuff, specifically on vocals when solo'ed, but then again it could be
>> the coffee!
>>
>> I've run 8 completely different song mixes that I am working on and it is
>> so much easier to find and correct things and so far appears to translate
>> very similar to my simple home stereo system, bedroom Bose/CD wave radio
>> and '04 Honda Accord car sound system. And that's what it's all about
>> for me. This should make for a whole lot less trial and error mixing.
>> My '06 Tundra truck sound system is not even close, but that's another
>> issue.
>>
>> In my studio, I individually A/B'd the clock and the DAC against the
>> Paris L/R monitor out and internal clock. In each case the clock and/or
>> the DAC cleaned up the low/mid mushiness, allowed the kick to be heard
>> with the bass and not a boom but a punch, spaced out the depth, ambiance
>> and stereo field and overall gave clarity to the mix. Paris EDS efx's are
>> more distinguishable now.
>>
>> Previously I used the Paris L/R monitor out to my 1604vlz (ch 15-16) trim
>> off, eq flat, level at unity and the main's out to my Alesis RA-100 (yah,
>> I know it's not so good, but I thought I was getting a decent flat ref
>> amp when I bought it back in '96.) to yama's NS-10's and a sub under my
>> desk for fill and to curl my toes.
>>
>> I was very suprised to find out how bad the Mackie colored the sound. A
>> very noticable harshness around 1-2khz and possibly higher, lack of
>> warmth between 100-300hz and just an overall sound like crowded, cramped,
>> busy and flat tonality. Tweaking the 3 eq's helps but only removed about
>> half the problem. This is compared to the MEC digita s/pdif out to the
>> DAC1 and it's XLR outs to the RA-100 to the NS-10s. This sound was warm
>> and round, almost surround. It put a smile on my face.
>>
>> I'm a happy camper. Special thanks to Dave, Kim, DJ, Miguel, Jeff and
>> Neil. I guess my next purchase will be an appropriate reference pwr amp.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Wayne
>> Paris since '97
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| Re: Big Ben and DAC1 [message #87980 is a reply to message #87954] |
Thu, 12 July 2007 00:36 |
Wayne Carson
Messages: 86
Registered: June 2007
|
Member |
|
|
Brad,
I've read on this newsgroup and have to agree (if I understood the posts
correctly, but am open to suggestions too) that the NS-10s, although a bit
mid'ly and harsh, do a good job at throwing the bad things in your face. If
anyone can make a mix sound good on NS-10s, then it's probably gonna be
really good. Don't ya think?
Wayne
"Brad Lyons" <brad@audioandmidi.com> wrote in message
news:469540ee$1@linux...
>
> Yep! Clocking is quite important, and many are surprised at just how much
> of a different a BigBen makes in most situations. I am running a BigBen
> in one of my studios, primarily because without it--nothing could function
> (I have multiple devices connected digitally as well as locked to house
> sync
> across multiple locations). I use the Apogee MiniDAC off of my Digidesign
> 192I/O, but the DAC1 kicks butt too!
>
> As to a better amp....NO NO NO, honestly--get some new monitors. The
> reality
> is if you're using NS10's, you're really missing out on a lot of other
> details.
> Without spending much money, check out the ADAM A7's. I own a set of the
> P33A's as well as a pair of the S1A's and one of the 10" ADAM subs. I'm
> getting ready to get a second 10" sub and (5) A7's for surround....you'll
> be stunned when you mix on these things, seriously.
>
> Brad Lyons- Sweetwater
> www.audioandmidi.com
> "Wayne Carson" <carson_wayne@msn.com> wrote:
>>Hi all,
>>
>>It's been a week since I hooked up the benchmark and clock to my simple
>
>>1-MEC w/two 8-in, 2-EDS, 1-C16 system. I used 3' apogee cables on both
> and
>>one 75 ohm term on the MEC s/pdif out. I did not use a bnc "T".
>>
>>It made a wonderful difference. I set the BB clock to internal at 44.1k
> and
>>used the bnc out to the MEC. I set Paris to word clock. That's it. It
>
>>locks at 44.1. I think I can even hear jitter on previously recorded
>>stuff,
>
>>specifically on vocals when solo'ed, but then again it could be the
>>coffee!
>>
>>I've run 8 completely different song mixes that I am working on and it is
> so
>>much easier to find and correct things and so far appears to translate
>>very
>
>>similar to my simple home stereo system, bedroom Bose/CD wave radio and
> '04
>>Honda Accord car sound system. And that's what it's all about for me.
> This
>>should make for a whole lot less trial and error mixing. My '06 Tundra
>
>>truck sound system is not even close, but that's another issue.
>>
>>In my studio, I individually A/B'd the clock and the DAC against the Paris
>
>>L/R monitor out and internal clock. In each case the clock and/or the DAC
>
>>cleaned up the low/mid mushiness, allowed the kick to be heard with the
> bass
>>and not a boom but a punch, spaced out the depth, ambiance and stereo
>>field
>
>>and overall gave clarity to the mix. Paris EDS efx's are more
>>distinguishable now.
>>
>>Previously I used the Paris L/R monitor out to my 1604vlz (ch 15-16) trim
>
>>off, eq flat, level at unity and the main's out to my Alesis RA-100 (yah,
> I
>>know it's not so good, but I thought I was getting a decent flat ref amp
>
>>when I bought it back in '96.) to yama's NS-10's and a sub under my desk
> for
>>fill and to curl my toes.
>>
>>I was very suprised to find out how bad the Mackie colored the sound. A
>
>>very noticable harshness around 1-2khz and possibly higher, lack of warmth
>
>>between 100-300hz and just an overall sound like crowded, cramped, busy
> and
>>flat tonality. Tweaking the 3 eq's helps but only removed about half the
>
>>problem. This is compared to the MEC digita s/pdif out to the DAC1 and
>>it's
>
>>XLR outs to the RA-100 to the NS-10s. This sound was warm and round,
>>almost
>
>>surround. It put a smile on my face.
>>
>>I'm a happy camper. Special thanks to Dave, Kim, DJ, Miguel, Jeff and
>>Neil.
>
>>I guess my next purchase will be an appropriate reference pwr amp.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Wayne
>>Paris since '97
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Big Ben and DAC1 [message #87984 is a reply to message #87980] |
Thu, 12 July 2007 05:49 |
BradLyons
Messages: 36
Registered: July 2007
|
Member |
|
|
On one hand yes, on the other...no. The NS10's were a great representation
of the real-world many years ago, and well they still are to a point today
as well. BUT the quality of recording has improved so much and there are
more end-users buying higher-qualtiy playback systems these days. It's easy
to think everyone listens to MP3's, I can't stand them to be honest--the
audio quality is awful in even the best MP3's when compared to raw audio
through high-resolution D/A's and monitors or high-end home theatre systems.
I have clients buying MiniDAC's and DAC1's just for a home stereo, I even
do it myself.
Today, you really just need ONE good set of studio monitors to mix on...likewise,
it's not a bad idea to have a playback set such as the NS10's, but I'd not
personally mix on them. I've owned a few sets of NS10's over the years and
I've NEVER mixed on them, only as a reference. With real-world, pro monitors
(the ADAM A7's and DynAudio BM5A's are really the entry-level to "pro" IMHO
these days) that allow you to actually hear what is going on, that will make
more of a difference than mixing on NS10's. You can't mix what you can't
hear. Again, I'm not saying not to use NS10's at all...but I'd not recommend
mixing on them because of their legacy.
Brad Lyons
Sweetwater
"Wayne Carson" <carson_wayne@msn.com> wrote:
>Brad,
>
>I've read on this newsgroup and have to agree (if I understood the posts
>correctly, but am open to suggestions too) that the NS-10s, although a bit
>mid'ly and harsh, do a good job at throwing the bad things in your face.
If
>anyone can make a mix sound good on NS-10s, then it's probably gonna be
>really good. Don't ya think?
>
>Wayne
>
>
>"Brad Lyons" <brad@audioandmidi.com> wrote in message
>news:469540ee$1@linux...
>>
>> Yep! Clocking is quite important, and many are surprised at just how
much
>> of a different a BigBen makes in most situations. I am running a BigBen
>> in one of my studios, primarily because without it--nothing could function
>> (I have multiple devices connected digitally as well as locked to house
>> sync
>> across multiple locations). I use the Apogee MiniDAC off of my Digidesign
>> 192I/O, but the DAC1 kicks butt too!
>>
>> As to a better amp....NO NO NO, honestly--get some new monitors. The
>> reality
>> is if you're using NS10's, you're really missing out on a lot of other
>> details.
>> Without spending much money, check out the ADAM A7's. I own a set of
the
>> P33A's as well as a pair of the S1A's and one of the 10" ADAM subs. I'm
>> getting ready to get a second 10" sub and (5) A7's for surround....you'll
>> be stunned when you mix on these things, seriously.
>>
>> Brad Lyons- Sweetwater
>> www.audioandmidi.com
>> "Wayne Carson" <carson_wayne@msn.com> wrote:
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>It's been a week since I hooked up the benchmark and clock to my simple
>>
>>>1-MEC w/two 8-in, 2-EDS, 1-C16 system. I used 3' apogee cables on both
>> and
>>>one 75 ohm term on the MEC s/pdif out. I did not use a bnc "T".
>>>
>>>It made a wonderful difference. I set the BB clock to internal at 44.1k
>> and
>>>used the bnc out to the MEC. I set Paris to word clock. That's it.
It
>>
>>>locks at 44.1. I think I can even hear jitter on previously recorded
>>>stuff,
>>
>>>specifically on vocals when solo'ed, but then again it could be the
>>>coffee!
>>>
>>>I've run 8 completely different song mixes that I am working on and it
is
>> so
>>>much easier to find and correct things and so far appears to translate
>>>very
>>
>>>similar to my simple home stereo system, bedroom Bose/CD wave radio and
>> '04
>>>Honda Accord car sound system. And that's what it's all about for me.
>> This
>>>should make for a whole lot less trial and error mixing. My '06 Tundra
>>
>>>truck sound system is not even close, but that's another issue.
>>>
>>>In my studio, I individually A/B'd the clock and the DAC against the Paris
>>
>>>L/R monitor out and internal clock. In each case the clock and/or the
DAC
>>
>>>cleaned up the low/mid mushiness, allowed the kick to be heard with the
>> bass
>>>and not a boom but a punch, spaced out the depth, ambiance and stereo
>>>field
>>
>>>and overall gave clarity to the mix. Paris EDS efx's are more
>>>distinguishable now.
>>>
>>>Previously I used the Paris L/R monitor out to my 1604vlz (ch 15-16) trim
>>
>>>off, eq flat, level at unity and the main's out to my Alesis RA-100 (yah,
>> I
>>>know it's not so good, but I thought I was getting a decent flat ref amp
>>
>>>when I bought it back in '96.) to yama's NS-10's and a sub under my desk
>> for
>>>fill and to curl my toes.
>>>
>>>I was very suprised to find out how bad the Mackie colored the sound.
A
>>
>>>very noticable harshness around 1-2khz and possibly higher, lack of warmth
>>
>>>between 100-300hz and just an overall sound like crowded, cramped, busy
>> and
>>>flat tonality. Tweaking the 3 eq's helps but only removed about half
the
>>
>>>problem. This is compared to the MEC digita s/pdif out to the DAC1 and
>>>it's
>>
>>>XLR outs to the RA-100 to the NS-10s. This sound was warm and round,
>>>almost
>>
>>>surround. It put a smile on my face.
>>>
>>>I'm a happy camper. Special thanks to Dave, Kim, DJ, Miguel, Jeff and
>>>Neil.
>>
>>>I guess my next purchase will be an appropriate reference pwr amp.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Wayne
>>>Paris since '97
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Big Ben and DAC1 [message #87996 is a reply to message #87984] |
Thu, 12 July 2007 11:08 |
Wayne Carson
Messages: 86
Registered: June 2007
|
Member |
|
|
Hi Brad,
Hmmmm, points to ponder. I will research the ADAM A7's and BM5A's. Thanks
for the info.
BTW - do you have an entry level "pro" recommendation on a studio reference
pwr amp to match the A7's?
My Alesis RA-100 outputs 75 watts into 8 ohms. The NS-10s are 8 ohms rated
at 60w program. Pretty good match. I do like the RA-100 because it's
totally quiet, no fan, uses heat sink in the rear. I've never felt the amp
get hot. I can hold the heat sink in the back even after a days work so it
doesn't produce much heat also.
Wayne
"Brad Lyons" <brad@audioandmidi.com> wrote in message
news:46962344$1@linux...
>
> On one hand yes, on the other...no. The NS10's were a great
> representation
> of the real-world many years ago, and well they still are to a point today
> as well. BUT the quality of recording has improved so much and there are
> more end-users buying higher-qualtiy playback systems these days. It's
> easy
> to think everyone listens to MP3's, I can't stand them to be honest--the
> audio quality is awful in even the best MP3's when compared to raw audio
> through high-resolution D/A's and monitors or high-end home theatre
> systems.
> I have clients buying MiniDAC's and DAC1's just for a home stereo, I even
> do it myself.
>
> Today, you really just need ONE good set of studio monitors to mix
> on...likewise,
> it's not a bad idea to have a playback set such as the NS10's, but I'd not
> personally mix on them. I've owned a few sets of NS10's over the years and
> I've NEVER mixed on them, only as a reference. With real-world, pro
> monitors
> (the ADAM A7's and DynAudio BM5A's are really the entry-level to "pro"
> IMHO
> these days) that allow you to actually hear what is going on, that will
> make
> more of a difference than mixing on NS10's. You can't mix what you can't
> hear. Again, I'm not saying not to use NS10's at all...but I'd not
> recommend
> mixing on them because of their legacy.
>
> Brad Lyons
> Sweetwater
>
> "Wayne Carson" <carson_wayne@msn.com> wrote:
>>Brad,
>>
>>I've read on this newsgroup and have to agree (if I understood the posts
>
>>correctly, but am open to suggestions too) that the NS-10s, although a bit
>
>>mid'ly and harsh, do a good job at throwing the bad things in your face.
> If
>>anyone can make a mix sound good on NS-10s, then it's probably gonna be
>
>>really good. Don't ya think?
>>
>>Wayne
>>
>>
>>"Brad Lyons" <brad@audioandmidi.com> wrote in message
>>news:469540ee$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Yep! Clocking is quite important, and many are surprised at just how
> much
>>> of a different a BigBen makes in most situations. I am running a BigBen
>>> in one of my studios, primarily because without it--nothing could
>>> function
>>> (I have multiple devices connected digitally as well as locked to house
>
>>> sync
>>> across multiple locations). I use the Apogee MiniDAC off of my
>>> Digidesign
>>> 192I/O, but the DAC1 kicks butt too!
>>>
>>> As to a better amp....NO NO NO, honestly--get some new monitors. The
>
>>> reality
>>> is if you're using NS10's, you're really missing out on a lot of other
>
>>> details.
>>> Without spending much money, check out the ADAM A7's. I own a set of
> the
>>> P33A's as well as a pair of the S1A's and one of the 10" ADAM subs. I'm
>>> getting ready to get a second 10" sub and (5) A7's for
>>> surround....you'll
>>> be stunned when you mix on these things, seriously.
>>>
>>> Brad Lyons- Sweetwater
>>> www.audioandmidi.com
>>> "Wayne Carson" <carson_wayne@msn.com> wrote:
>>>>Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>It's been a week since I hooked up the benchmark and clock to my simple
>>>
>>>>1-MEC w/two 8-in, 2-EDS, 1-C16 system. I used 3' apogee cables on both
>>> and
>>>>one 75 ohm term on the MEC s/pdif out. I did not use a bnc "T".
>>>>
>>>>It made a wonderful difference. I set the BB clock to internal at 44.1k
>>> and
>>>>used the bnc out to the MEC. I set Paris to word clock. That's it.
> It
>>>
>>>>locks at 44.1. I think I can even hear jitter on previously recorded
>
>>>>stuff,
>>>
>>>>specifically on vocals when solo'ed, but then again it could be the
>>>>coffee!
>>>>
>>>>I've run 8 completely different song mixes that I am working on and it
> is
>>> so
>>>>much easier to find and correct things and so far appears to translate
>
>>>>very
>>>
>>>>similar to my simple home stereo system, bedroom Bose/CD wave radio and
>>> '04
>>>>Honda Accord car sound system. And that's what it's all about for me.
>>> This
>>>>should make for a whole lot less trial and error mixing. My '06 Tundra
>>>
>>>>truck sound system is not even close, but that's another issue.
>>>>
>>>>In my studio, I individually A/B'd the clock and the DAC against the
>>>>Paris
>>>
>>>>L/R monitor out and internal clock. In each case the clock and/or the
> DAC
>>>
>>>>cleaned up the low/mid mushiness, allowed the kick to be heard with the
>>> bass
>>>>and not a boom but a punch, spaced out the depth, ambiance and stereo
>
>>>>field
>>>
>>>>and overall gave clarity to the mix. Paris EDS efx's are more
>>>>distinguishable now.
>>>>
>>>>Previously I used the Paris L/R monitor out to my 1604vlz (ch 15-16)
>>>>trim
>>>
>>>>off, eq flat, level at unity and the main's out to my Alesis RA-100
>>>>(yah,
>>> I
>>>>know it's not so good, but I thought I was getting a decent flat ref amp
>>>
>>>>when I bought it back in '96.) to yama's NS-10's and a sub under my desk
>>> for
>>>>fill and to curl my toes.
>>>>
>>>>I was very suprised to find out how bad the Mackie colored the sound.
> A
>>>
>>>>very noticable harshness around 1-2khz and possibly higher, lack of
>>>>warmth
>>>
>>>>between 100-300hz and just an overall sound like crowded, cramped, busy
>>> and
>>>>flat tonality. Tweaking the 3 eq's helps but only removed about half
> the
>>>
>>>>problem. This is compared to the MEC digita s/pdif out to the DAC1 and
>
>>>>it's
>>>
>>>>XLR outs to the RA-100 to the NS-10s. This sound was warm and round,
>
>>>>almost
>>>
>>>>surround. It put a smile on my face.
>>>>
>>>>I'm a happy camper. Special thanks to Dave, Kim, DJ, Miguel, Jeff and
>
>>>>Neil.
>>>
>>>>I guess my next purchase will be an appropriate reference pwr amp.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>Wayne
>>>>Paris since '97
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Big Ben and DAC1 [message #87997 is a reply to message #87996] |
Thu, 12 July 2007 11:30 |
rich
Messages: 22
Registered: July 2005
|
Junior Member |
|
|
I have a Crown and and Alesis RA also and your right - the crown gets very
hot after a few hours the Alesis is cool to the touch. But Crown also does
not use a fan and sounds great if your looking for an amp, I have never had
an issue with it after several years - but it does get hot...
"Wayne Carson" <carson_wayne@msn.com> wrote:
>Hi Brad,
>
>Hmmmm, points to ponder. I will research the ADAM A7's and BM5A's. Thanks
>for the info.
>
>BTW - do you have an entry level "pro" recommendation on a studio reference
>pwr amp to match the A7's?
>My Alesis RA-100 outputs 75 watts into 8 ohms. The NS-10s are 8 ohms rated
>at 60w program. Pretty good match. I do like the RA-100 because it's
>totally quiet, no fan, uses heat sink in the rear. I've never felt the
amp
>get hot. I can hold the heat sink in the back even after a days work so
it
>doesn't produce much heat also.
>
>Wayne
>
>
>"Brad Lyons" <brad@audioandmidi.com> wrote in message
>news:46962344$1@linux...
>>
>> On one hand yes, on the other...no. The NS10's were a great
>> representation
>> of the real-world many years ago, and well they still are to a point today
>> as well. BUT the quality of recording has improved so much and there
are
>> more end-users buying higher-qualtiy playback systems these days. It's
>> easy
>> to think everyone listens to MP3's, I can't stand them to be honest--the
>> audio quality is awful in even the best MP3's when compared to raw audio
>> through high-resolution D/A's and monitors or high-end home theatre
>> systems.
>> I have clients buying MiniDAC's and DAC1's just for a home stereo, I even
>> do it myself.
>>
>> Today, you really just need ONE good set of studio monitors to mix
>> on...likewise,
>> it's not a bad idea to have a playback set such as the NS10's, but I'd
not
>> personally mix on them. I've owned a few sets of NS10's over the years
and
>> I've NEVER mixed on them, only as a reference. With real-world, pro
>> monitors
>> (the ADAM A7's and DynAudio BM5A's are really the entry-level to "pro"
>> IMHO
>> these days) that allow you to actually hear what is going on, that will
>> make
>> more of a difference than mixing on NS10's. You can't mix what you can't
>> hear. Again, I'm not saying not to use NS10's at all...but I'd not
>> recommend
>> mixing on them because of their legacy.
>>
>> Brad Lyons
>> Sweetwater
>>
>> "Wayne Carson" <carson_wayne@msn.com> wrote:
>>>Brad,
>>>
>>>I've read on this newsgroup and have to agree (if I understood the posts
>>
>>>correctly, but am open to suggestions too) that the NS-10s, although a
bit
>>
>>>mid'ly and harsh, do a good job at throwing the bad things in your face.
>> If
>>>anyone can make a mix sound good on NS-10s, then it's probably gonna be
>>
>>>really good. Don't ya think?
>>>
>>>Wayne
>>>
>>>
>>>"Brad Lyons" <brad@audioandmidi.com> wrote in message
>>>news:469540ee$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> Yep! Clocking is quite important, and many are surprised at just how
>> much
>>>> of a different a BigBen makes in most situations. I am running a BigBen
>>>> in one of my studios, primarily because without it--nothing could
>>>> function
>>>> (I have multiple devices connected digitally as well as locked to house
>>
>>>> sync
>>>> across multiple locations). I use the Apogee MiniDAC off of my
>>>> Digidesign
>>>> 192I/O, but the DAC1 kicks butt too!
>>>>
>>>> As to a better amp....NO NO NO, honestly--get some new monitors. The
>>
>>>> reality
>>>> is if you're using NS10's, you're really missing out on a lot of other
>>
>>>> details.
>>>> Without spending much money, check out the ADAM A7's. I own a set of
>> the
>>>> P33A's as well as a pair of the S1A's and one of the 10" ADAM subs.
I'm
>>>> getting ready to get a second 10" sub and (5) A7's for
>>>> surround....you'll
>>>> be stunned when you mix on these things, seriously.
>>>>
>>>> Brad Lyons- Sweetwater
>>>> www.audioandmidi.com
>>>> "Wayne Carson" <carson_wayne@msn.com> wrote:
>>>>>Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>>It's been a week since I hooked up the benchmark and clock to my simple
>>>>
>>>>>1-MEC w/two 8-in, 2-EDS, 1-C16 system. I used 3' apogee cables on both
>>>> and
>>>>>one 75 ohm term on the MEC s/pdif out. I did not use a bnc "T".
>>>>>
>>>>>It made a wonderful difference. I set the BB clock to internal at 44.1k
>>>> and
>>>>>used the bnc out to the MEC. I set Paris to word clock. That's it.
>> It
>>>>
>>>>>locks at 44.1. I think I can even hear jitter on previously recorded
>>
>>>>>stuff,
>>>>
>>>>>specifically on vocals when solo'ed, but then again it could be the
>>>>>coffee!
>>>>>
>>>>>I've run 8 completely different song mixes that I am working on and
it
>> is
>>>> so
>>>>>much easier to find and correct things and so far appears to translate
>>
>>>>>very
>>>>
>>>>>similar to my simple home stereo system, bedroom Bose/CD wave radio
and
>>>> '04
>>>>>Honda Accord car sound system. And that's what it's all about for me.
>>>> This
>>>>>should make for a whole lot less trial and error mixing. My '06 Tundra
>>>>
>>>>>truck sound system is not even close, but that's another issue.
>>>>>
>>>>>In my studio, I individually A/B'd the clock and the DAC against the
>>>>>Paris
>>>>
>>>>>L/R monitor out and internal clock. In each case the clock and/or the
>> DAC
>>>>
>>>>>cleaned up the low/mid mushiness, allowed the kick to be heard with
the
>>>> bass
>>>>>and not a boom but a punch, spaced out the depth, ambiance and stereo
>>
>>>>>field
>>>>
>>>>>and overall gave clarity to the mix. Paris EDS efx's are more
>>>>>distinguishable now.
>>>>>
>>>>>Previously I used the Paris L/R monitor out to my 1604vlz (ch 15-16)
>>>>>trim
>>>>
>>>>>off, eq flat, level at unity and the main's out to my Alesis RA-100
>>>>>(yah,
>>>> I
>>>>>know it's not so good, but I thought I was getting a decent flat ref
amp
>>>>
>>>>>when I bought it back in '96.) to yama's NS-10's and a sub under my
desk
>>>> for
>>>>>fill and to curl my toes.
>>>>>
>>>>>I was very suprised to find out how bad the Mackie colored the sound.
>> A
>>>>
>>>>>very noticable harshness around 1-2khz and possibly higher, lack of
>>>>>warmth
>>>>
>>>>>between 100-300hz and just an overall sound like crowded, cramped, busy
>>>> and
>>>>>flat tonality. Tweaking the 3 eq's helps but only removed about half
>> the
>>>>
>>>>>problem. This is compared to the MEC digita s/pdif out to the DAC1 and
>>
>>>>>it's
>>>>
>>>>>XLR outs to the RA-100 to the NS-10s. This sound was warm and round,
>>
>>>>>almost
>>>>
>>>>>surround. It put a smile on my face.
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm a happy camper. Special thanks to Dave, Kim, DJ, Miguel, Jeff and
>>
>>>>>Neil.
>>>>
>>>>>I guess my next purchase will be an appropriate reference pwr amp.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>Wayne
>>>>>Paris since '97
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Big Ben and DAC1 [message #88000 is a reply to message #87996] |
Thu, 12 July 2007 12:03 |
BradLyons
Messages: 36
Registered: July 2007
|
Member |
|
|
Did you mean to match the NS10's?? The A7's are active, so no amp is needed
plus they are bi-amped. As to the amp for NS10's, well I was a big fan of
Hafler but they went belly-up. I'd have to say (surprisingly) the SL2A from
ART. IMHO, there really isn't much to choose from these days as active has
taken over so much.
Brad
"Wayne Carson" <carson_wayne@msn.com> wrote:
>Hi Brad,
>
>Hmmmm, points to ponder. I will research the ADAM A7's and BM5A's. Thanks
>for the info.
>
>BTW - do you have an entry level "pro" recommendation on a studio reference
>pwr amp to match the A7's?
>My Alesis RA-100 outputs 75 watts into 8 ohms. The NS-10s are 8 ohms rated
>at 60w program. Pretty good match. I do like the RA-100 because it's
>totally quiet, no fan, uses heat sink in the rear. I've never felt the
amp
>get hot. I can hold the heat sink in the back even after a days work so
it
>doesn't produce much heat also.
>
>Wayne
>
>
>"Brad Lyons" <brad@audioandmidi.com> wrote in message
>news:46962344$1@linux...
>>
>> On one hand yes, on the other...no. The NS10's were a great
>> representation
>> of the real-world many years ago, and well they still are to a point today
>> as well. BUT the quality of recording has improved so much and there
are
>> more end-users buying higher-qualtiy playback systems these days. It's
>> easy
>> to think everyone listens to MP3's, I can't stand them to be honest--the
>> audio quality is awful in even the best MP3's when compared to raw audio
>> through high-resolution D/A's and monitors or high-end home theatre
>> systems.
>> I have clients buying MiniDAC's and DAC1's just for a home stereo, I even
>> do it myself.
>>
>> Today, you really just need ONE good set of studio monitors to mix
>> on...likewise,
>> it's not a bad idea to have a playback set such as the NS10's, but I'd
not
>> personally mix on them. I've owned a few sets of NS10's over the years
and
>> I've NEVER mixed on them, only as a reference. With real-world, pro
>> monitors
>> (the ADAM A7's and DynAudio BM5A's are really the entry-level to "pro"
>> IMHO
>> these days) that allow you to actually hear what is going on, that will
>> make
>> more of a difference than mixing on NS10's. You can't mix what you can't
>> hear. Again, I'm not saying not to use NS10's at all...but I'd not
>> recommend
>> mixing on them because of their legacy.
>>
>> Brad Lyons
>> Sweetwater
>>
>> "Wayne Carson" <carson_wayne@msn.com> wrote:
>>>Brad,
>>>
>>>I've read on this newsgroup and have to agree (if I understood the posts
>>
>>>correctly, but am open to suggestions too) that the NS-10s, although a
bit
>>
>>>mid'ly and harsh, do a good job at throwing the bad things in your face.
>> If
>>>anyone can make a mix sound good on NS-10s, then it's probably gonna be
>>
>>>really good. Don't ya think?
>>>
>>>Wayne
>>>
>>>
>>>"Brad Lyons" <brad@audioandmidi.com> wrote in message
>>>news:469540ee$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> Yep! Clocking is quite important, and many are surprised at just how
>> much
>>>> of a different a BigBen makes in most situations. I am running a BigBen
>>>> in one of my studios, primarily because without it--nothing could
>>>> function
>>>> (I have multiple devices connected digitally as well as locked to house
>>
>>>> sync
>>>> across multiple locations). I use the Apogee MiniDAC off of my
>>>> Digidesign
>>>> 192I/O, but the DAC1 kicks butt too!
>>>>
>>>> As to a better amp....NO NO NO, honestly--get some new monitors. The
>>
>>>> reality
>>>> is if you're using NS10's, you're really missing out on a lot of other
>>
>>>> details.
>>>> Without spending much money, check out the ADAM A7's. I own a set of
>> the
>>>> P33A's as well as a pair of the S1A's and one of the 10" ADAM subs.
I'm
>>>> getting ready to get a second 10" sub and (5) A7's for
>>>> surround....you'll
>>>> be stunned when you mix on these things, seriously.
>>>>
>>>> Brad Lyons- Sweetwater
>>>> www.audioandmidi.com
>>>> "Wayne Carson" <carson_wayne@msn.com> wrote:
>>>>>Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>>It's been a week since I hooked up the benchmark and clock to my simple
>>>>
>>>>>1-MEC w/two 8-in, 2-EDS, 1-C16 system. I used 3' apogee cables on both
>>>> and
>>>>>one 75 ohm term on the MEC s/pdif out. I did not use a bnc "T".
>>>>>
>>>>>It made a wonderful difference. I set the BB clock to internal at 44.1k
>>>> and
>>>>>used the bnc out to the MEC. I set Paris to word clock. That's it.
>> It
>>>>
>>>>>locks at 44.1. I think I can even hear jitter on previously recorded
>>
>>>>>stuff,
>>>>
>>>>>specifically on vocals when solo'ed, but then again it could be the
>>>>>coffee!
>>>>>
>>>>>I've run 8 completely different song mixes that I am working on and
it
>> is
>>>> so
>>>>>much easier to find and correct things and so far appears to translate
>>
>>>>>very
>>>>
>>>>>similar to my simple home stereo system, bedroom Bose/CD wave radio
and
>>>> '04
>>>>>Honda Accord car sound system. And that's what it's all about for me.
>>>> This
>>>>>should make for a whole lot less trial and error mixing. My '06 Tundra
>>>>
>>>>>truck sound system is not even close, but that's another issue.
>>>>>
>>>>>In my studio, I individually A/B'd the clock and the DAC against the
>>>>>Paris
>>>>
>>>>>L/R monitor out and internal clock. In each case the clock and/or the
>> DAC
>>>>
>>>>>cleaned up the low/mid mushiness, allowed the kick to be heard with
the
>>>> bass
>>>>>and not a boom but a punch, spaced out the depth, ambiance and stereo
>>
>>>>>field
>>>>
>>>>>and overall gave clarity to the mix. Paris EDS efx's are more
>>>>>distinguishable now.
>>>>>
>>>>>Previously I used the Paris L/R monitor out to my 1604vlz (ch 15-16)
>>>>>trim
>>>>
>>>>>off, eq flat, level at unity and the main's out to my Alesis RA-100
>>>>>(yah,
>>>> I
>>>>>know it's not so good, but I thought I was getting a decent flat ref
amp
>>>>
>>>>>when I bought it back in '96.) to yama's NS-10's and a sub under my
desk
>>>> for
>>>>>fill and to curl my toes.
>>>>>
>>>>>I was very suprised to find out how bad the Mackie colored the sound.
>> A
>>>>
>>>>>very noticable harshness around 1-2khz and possibly higher, lack of
>>>>>warmth
>>>>
>>>>>between 100-300hz and just an overall sound like crowded, cramped, busy
>>>> and
>>>>>flat tonality. Tweaking the 3 eq's helps but only removed about half
>> the
>>>>
>>>>>problem. This is compared to the MEC digita s/pdif out to the DAC1 and
>>
>>>>>it's
>>>>
>>>>>XLR outs to the RA-100 to the NS-10s. This sound was warm and round,
>>
>>>>>almost
>>>>
>>>>>surround. It put a smile on my face.
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm a happy camper. Special thanks to Dave, Kim, DJ, Miguel, Jeff and
>>
>>>>>Neil.
>>>>
>>>>>I guess my next purchase will be an appropriate reference pwr amp.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>Wayne
>>>>>Paris since '97
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Big Ben and DAC1 [message #88001 is a reply to message #87980] |
Thu, 12 July 2007 12:07 |
BradLyons
Messages: 36
Registered: July 2007
|
Member |
|
|
I can get a mix to sound good on the Peavey Versaray, but that doesn't mean
it will be as good across multiple systems. NS10's were wonderful in their
day, but today---gear quality has changed dramatically. They are fine for
listen-back, but they won't show you in-depth frequency. Mix on any kind
of Adam's sometime, you'll know what I mean within 30-seconds.
Brad
"Wayne Carson" <carson_wayne@msn.com> wrote:
>Brad,
>
>I've read on this newsgroup and have to agree (if I understood the posts
>correctly, but am open to suggestions too) that the NS-10s, although a bit
>mid'ly and harsh, do a good job at throwing the bad things in your face.
If
>anyone can make a mix sound good on NS-10s, then it's probably gonna be
>really good. Don't ya think?
>
>Wayne
>
>
>"Brad Lyons" <brad@audioandmidi.com> wrote in message
>news:469540ee$1@linux...
>>
>> Yep! Clocking is quite important, and many are surprised at just how
much
>> of a different a BigBen makes in most situations. I am running a BigBen
>> in one of my studios, primarily because without it--nothing could function
>> (I have multiple devices connected digitally as well as locked to house
>> sync
>> across multiple locations). I use the Apogee MiniDAC off of my Digidesign
>> 192I/O, but the DAC1 kicks butt too!
>>
>> As to a better amp....NO NO NO, honestly--get some new monitors. The
>> reality
>> is if you're using NS10's, you're really missing out on a lot of other
>> details.
>> Without spending much money, check out the ADAM A7's. I own a set of
the
>> P33A's as well as a pair of the S1A's and one of the 10" ADAM subs. I'm
>> getting ready to get a second 10" sub and (5) A7's for surround....you'll
>> be stunned when you mix on these things, seriously.
>>
>> Brad Lyons- Sweetwater
>> www.audioandmidi.com
>> "Wayne Carson" <carson_wayne@msn.com> wrote:
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>It's been a week since I hooked up the benchmark and clock to my simple
>>
>>>1-MEC w/two 8-in, 2-EDS, 1-C16 system. I used 3' apogee cables on both
>> and
>>>one 75 ohm term on the MEC s/pdif out. I did not use a bnc "T".
>>>
>>>It made a wonderful difference. I set the BB clock to internal at 44.1k
>> and
>>>used the bnc out to the MEC. I set Paris to word clock. That's it.
It
>>
>>>locks at 44.1. I think I can even hear jitter on previously recorded
>>>stuff,
>>
>>>specifically on vocals when solo'ed, but then again it could be the
>>>coffee!
>>>
>>>I've run 8 completely different song mixes that I am working on and it
is
>> so
>>>much easier to find and correct things and so far appears to translate
>>>very
>>
>>>similar to my simple home stereo system, bedroom Bose/CD wave radio and
>> '04
>>>Honda Accord car sound system. And that's what it's all about for me.
>> This
>>>should make for a whole lot less trial and error mixing. My '06 Tundra
>>
>>>truck sound system is not even close, but that's another issue.
>>>
>>>In my studio, I individually A/B'd the clock and the DAC against the Paris
>>
>>>L/R monitor out and internal clock. In each case the clock and/or the
DAC
>>
>>>cleaned up the low/mid mushiness, allowed the kick to be heard with the
>> bass
>>>and not a boom but a punch, spaced out the depth, ambiance and stereo
>>>field
>>
>>>and overall gave clarity to the mix. Paris EDS efx's are more
>>>distinguishable now.
>>>
>>>Previously I used the Paris L/R monitor out to my 1604vlz (ch 15-16) trim
>>
>>>off, eq flat, level at unity and the main's out to my Alesis RA-100 (yah,
>> I
>>>know it's not so good, but I thought I was getting a decent flat ref amp
>>
>>>when I bought it back in '96.) to yama's NS-10's and a sub under my desk
>> for
>>>fill and to curl my toes.
>>>
>>>I was very suprised to find out how bad the Mackie colored the sound.
A
>>
>>>very noticable harshness around 1-2khz and possibly higher, lack of warmth
>>
>>>between 100-300hz and just an overall sound like crowded, cramped, busy
>> and
>>>flat tonality. Tweaking the 3 eq's helps but only removed about half
the
>>
>>>problem. This is compared to the MEC digita s/pdif out to the DAC1 and
>>>it's
>>
>>>XLR outs to the RA-100 to the NS-10s. This sound was warm and round,
>>>almost
>>
>>>surround. It put a smile on my face.
>>>
>>>I'm a happy camper. Special thanks to Dave, Kim, DJ, Miguel, Jeff and
>>>Neil.
>>
>>>I guess my next purchase will be an appropriate reference pwr amp.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Wayne
>>>Paris since '97
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Big Ben and DAC1 [message #88025 is a reply to message #88001] |
Thu, 12 July 2007 22:16 |
Wayne Carson
Messages: 86
Registered: June 2007
|
Member |
|
|
Thanks Brad. I'm on board for checking out the Adams. I didn't know they
were active. That pretty much solves the amp issue. Thanks again.
Wayne
"Brad Lyons" <brad@audioandmidi.com> wrote in message
news:46967bda$1@linux...
>
> I can get a mix to sound good on the Peavey Versaray, but that doesn't
> mean
> it will be as good across multiple systems. NS10's were wonderful in
> their
> day, but today---gear quality has changed dramatically. They are fine for
> listen-back, but they won't show you in-depth frequency. Mix on any kind
> of Adam's sometime, you'll know what I mean within 30-seconds.
>
> Brad
>
> "Wayne Carson" <carson_wayne@msn.com> wrote:
>>Brad,
>>
>>I've read on this newsgroup and have to agree (if I understood the posts
>
>>correctly, but am open to suggestions too) that the NS-10s, although a bit
>
>>mid'ly and harsh, do a good job at throwing the bad things in your face.
> If
>>anyone can make a mix sound good on NS-10s, then it's probably gonna be
>
>>really good. Don't ya think?
>>
>>Wayne
>>
>>
>>"Brad Lyons" <brad@audioandmidi.com> wrote in message
>>news:469540ee$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Yep! Clocking is quite important, and many are surprised at just how
> much
>>> of a different a BigBen makes in most situations. I am running a BigBen
>>> in one of my studios, primarily because without it--nothing could
>>> function
>>> (I have multiple devices connected digitally as well as locked to house
>
>>> sync
>>> across multiple locations). I use the Apogee MiniDAC off of my
>>> Digidesign
>>> 192I/O, but the DAC1 kicks butt too!
>>>
>>> As to a better amp....NO NO NO, honestly--get some new monitors. The
>
>>> reality
>>> is if you're using NS10's, you're really missing out on a lot of other
>
>>> details.
>>> Without spending much money, check out the ADAM A7's. I own a set of
> the
>>> P33A's as well as a pair of the S1A's and one of the 10" ADAM subs. I'm
>>> getting ready to get a second 10" sub and (5) A7's for
>>> surround....you'll
>>> be stunned when you mix on these things, seriously.
>>>
>>> Brad Lyons- Sweetwater
>>> www.audioandmidi.com
>>> "Wayne Carson" <carson_wayne@msn.com> wrote:
>>>>Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>It's been a week since I hooked up the benchmark and clock to my simple
>>>
>>>>1-MEC w/two 8-in, 2-EDS, 1-C16 system. I used 3' apogee cables on both
>>> and
>>>>one 75 ohm term on the MEC s/pdif out. I did not use a bnc "T".
>>>>
>>>>It made a wonderful difference. I set the BB clock to internal at 44.1k
>>> and
>>>>used the bnc out to the MEC. I set Paris to word clock. That's it.
> It
>>>
>>>>locks at 44.1. I think I can even hear jitter on previously recorded
>
>>>>stuff,
>>>
>>>>specifically on vocals when solo'ed, but then again it could be the
>>>>coffee!
>>>>
>>>>I've run 8 completely different song mixes that I am working on and it
> is
>>> so
>>>>much easier to find and correct things and so far appears to translate
>
>>>>very
>>>
>>>>similar to my simple home stereo system, bedroom Bose/CD wave radio and
>>> '04
>>>>Honda Accord car sound system. And that's what it's all about for me.
>>> This
>>>>should make for a whole lot less trial and error mixing. My '06 Tundra
>>>
>>>>truck sound system is not even close, but that's another issue.
>>>>
>>>>In my studio, I individually A/B'd the clock and the DAC against the
>>>>Paris
>>>
>>>>L/R monitor out and internal clock. In each case the clock and/or the
> DAC
>>>
>>>>cleaned up the low/mid mushiness, allowed the kick to be heard with the
>>> bass
>>>>and not a boom but a punch, spaced out the depth, ambiance and stereo
>
>>>>field
>>>
>>>>and overall gave clarity to the mix. Paris EDS efx's are more
>>>>distinguishable now.
>>>>
>>>>Previously I used the Paris L/R monitor out to my 1604vlz (ch 15-16)
>>>>trim
>>>
>>>>off, eq flat, level at unity and the main's out to my Alesis RA-100
>>>>(yah,
>>> I
>>>>know it's not so good, but I thought I was getting a decent flat ref amp
>>>
>>>>when I bought it back in '96.) to yama's NS-10's and a sub under my desk
>>> for
>>>>fill and to curl my toes.
>>>>
>>>>I was very suprised to find out how bad the Mackie colored the sound.
> A
>>>
>>>>very noticable harshness around 1-2khz and possibly higher, lack of
>>>>warmth
>>>
>>>>between 100-300hz and just an overall sound like crowded, cramped, busy
>>> and
>>>>flat tonality. Tweaking the 3 eq's helps but only removed about half
> the
>>>
>>>>problem. This is compared to the MEC digita s/pdif out to the DAC1 and
>
>>>>it's
>>>
>>>>XLR outs to the RA-100 to the NS-10s. This sound was warm and round,
>
>>>>almost
>>>
>>>>surround. It put a smile on my face.
>>>>
>>>>I'm a happy camper. Special thanks to Dave, Kim, DJ, Miguel, Jeff and
>
>>>>Neil.
>>>
>>>>I guess my next purchase will be an appropriate reference pwr amp.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>Wayne
>>>>Paris since '97
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Big Ben and DAC1 [message #88026 is a reply to message #88025] |
Thu, 12 July 2007 22:24 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Active rocks, better matching between amp/speakers and the signal loss from
an amp mounted in the cabinet is so much less than even a 10 ft run of
speaker cable. I don't have any specs in front of me, but I remember how
absolutely appalled I was when I saw loss data.
If you're buying new, active is def. the way to go IMO.
AA
"Wayne Carson" <carson_wayne@msn.com> wrote in message
news:46970c11@linux...
> Thanks Brad. I'm on board for checking out the Adams. I didn't know
> they were active. That pretty much solves the amp issue. Thanks again.
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>
>
> "Brad Lyons" <brad@audioandmidi.com> wrote in message
> news:46967bda$1@linux...
>>
>> I can get a mix to sound good on the Peavey Versaray, but that doesn't
>> mean
>> it will be as good across multiple systems. NS10's were wonderful in
>> their
>> day, but today---gear quality has changed dramatically. They are fine for
>> listen-back, but they won't show you in-depth frequency. Mix on any kind
>> of Adam's sometime, you'll know what I mean within 30-seconds.
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> "Wayne Carson" <carson_wayne@msn.com> wrote:
>>>Brad,
>>>
>>>I've read on this newsgroup and have to agree (if I understood the posts
>>
>>>correctly, but am open to suggestions too) that the NS-10s, although a
>>>bit
>>
>>>mid'ly and harsh, do a good job at throwing the bad things in your face.
>> If
>>>anyone can make a mix sound good on NS-10s, then it's probably gonna be
>>
>>>really good. Don't ya think?
>>>
>>>Wayne
>>>
>>>
>>>"Brad Lyons" <brad@audioandmidi.com> wrote in message
>>>news:469540ee$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> Yep! Clocking is quite important, and many are surprised at just how
>> much
>>>> of a different a BigBen makes in most situations. I am running a
>>>> BigBen
>>>> in one of my studios, primarily because without it--nothing could
>>>> function
>>>> (I have multiple devices connected digitally as well as locked to house
>>
>>>> sync
>>>> across multiple locations). I use the Apogee MiniDAC off of my
>>>> Digidesign
>>>> 192I/O, but the DAC1 kicks butt too!
>>>>
>>>> As to a better amp....NO NO NO, honestly--get some new monitors. The
>>
>>>> reality
>>>> is if you're using NS10's, you're really missing out on a lot of other
>>
>>>> details.
>>>> Without spending much money, check out the ADAM A7's. I own a set of
>> the
>>>> P33A's as well as a pair of the S1A's and one of the 10" ADAM subs.
>>>> I'm
>>>> getting ready to get a second 10" sub and (5) A7's for
>>>> surround....you'll
>>>> be stunned when you mix on these things, seriously.
>>>>
>>>> Brad Lyons- Sweetwater
>>>> www.audioandmidi.com
>>>> "Wayne Carson" <carson_wayne@msn.com> wrote:
>>>>>Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>>It's been a week since I hooked up the benchmark and clock to my simple
>>>>
>>>>>1-MEC w/two 8-in, 2-EDS, 1-C16 system. I used 3' apogee cables on both
>>>> and
>>>>>one 75 ohm term on the MEC s/pdif out. I did not use a bnc "T".
>>>>>
>>>>>It made a wonderful difference. I set the BB clock to internal at 44.1k
>>>> and
>>>>>used the bnc out to the MEC. I set Paris to word clock. That's it.
>> It
>>>>
>>>>>locks at 44.1. I think I can even hear jitter on previously recorded
>>
>>>>>stuff,
>>>>
>>>>>specifically on vocals when solo'ed, but then again it could be the
>>>>>coffee!
>>>>>
>>>>>I've run 8 completely different song mixes that I am working on and it
>> is
>>>> so
>>>>>much easier to find and correct things and so far appears to translate
>>
>>>>>very
>>>>
>>>>>similar to my simple home stereo system, bedroom Bose/CD wave radio and
>>>> '04
>>>>>Honda Accord car sound system. And that's what it's all about for me.
>>>> This
>>>>>should make for a whole lot less trial and error mixing. My '06 Tundra
>>>>
>>>>>truck sound system is not even close, but that's another issue.
>>>>>
>>>>>In my studio, I individually A/B'd the clock and the DAC against the
>>>>>Paris
>>>>
>>>>>L/R monitor out and internal clock. In each case the clock and/or the
>> DAC
>>>>
>>>>>cleaned up the low/mid mushiness, allowed the kick to be heard with the
>>>> bass
>>>>>and not a boom but a punch, spaced out the depth, ambiance and stereo
>>
>>>>>field
>>>>
>>>>>and overall gave clarity to the mix. Paris EDS efx's are more
>>>>>distinguishable now.
>>>>>
>>>>>Previously I used the Paris L/R monitor out to my 1604vlz (ch 15-16)
>>>>>trim
>>>>
>>>>>off, eq flat, level at unity and the main's out to my Alesis RA-100
>>>>>(yah,
>>>> I
>>>>>know it's not so good, but I thought I was getting a decent flat ref
>>>>>amp
>>>>
>>>>>when I bought it back in '96.) to yama's NS-10's and a sub under my
>>>>>desk
>>>> for
>>>>>fill and to curl my toes.
>>>>>
>>>>>I was very suprised to find out how bad the Mackie colored the sound.
>> A
>>>>
>>>>>very noticable harshness around 1-2khz and possibly higher, lack of
>>>>>warmth
>>>>
>>>>>between 100-300hz and just an overall sound like crowded, cramped, busy
>>>> and
>>>>>flat tonality. Tweaking the 3 eq's helps but only removed about half
>> the
>>>>
>>>>>problem. This is compared to the MEC digita s/pdif out to the DAC1 and
>>
>>>>>it's
>>>>
>>>>>XLR outs to the RA-100 to the NS-10s. This sound was warm and round,
>>
>>>>>almost
>>>>
>>>>>surround. It put a smile on my face.
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm a happy camper. Special thanks to Dave, Kim, DJ, Miguel, Jeff and
>>
>>>>>Neil.
>>>>
>>>>>I guess my next purchase will be an appropriate reference pwr amp.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>Wayne
>>>>>Paris since '97
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Big Ben and DAC1 [message #88036 is a reply to message #87979] |
Fri, 13 July 2007 05:08 |
Bill L
Messages: 766
Registered: August 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
So just to be sure I understand, the biggest improvement was just
putting the better converters into the chain, with the Paris clock?
Wayne Carson wrote:
> Bill,
>
> I did that, . . . sort of. The DAC has no clock in's or outs. I did run
> Paris on internal clock and took the digital s/pdif out of the MEC to the
> DAC and to the monitors and this is where I heard the biggest improvement.
>
> Then I listened to my monitors without the DAC (my previous setup) and
> clocked it with the Big Ben. It sounded more stable if you can understand
> what I mean and did clean up the sound also, but not as dramatic or
> noticable as with the DAC test.
>
> Everything I listened to was recorded on Paris internal so my initial
> recordings used Paris's A/D and internal clock. I think I can hear a little
> flutter in my recordings which I didn't hear before. I believe DJ is right.
> Once I record with the Big Ben I'll probably truely hear the clarity and
> separation.
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
> "Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:46959638@linux...
>> Wayne, I'm curious how much difference you would hear if you clocked Paris
>> to the DAC1 alone? Have you listened to that?
>>
>> Wayne Carson wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> It's been a week since I hooked up the benchmark and clock to my simple
>>> 1-MEC w/two 8-in, 2-EDS, 1-C16 system. I used 3' apogee cables on both
>>> and one 75 ohm term on the MEC s/pdif out. I did not use a bnc "T".
>>>
>>> It made a wonderful difference. I set the BB clock to internal at 44.1k
>>> and used the bnc out to the MEC. I set Paris to word clock. That's it.
>>> It locks at 44.1. I think I can even hear jitter on previously recorded
>>> stuff, specifically on vocals when solo'ed, but then again it could be
>>> the coffee!
>>>
>>> I've run 8 completely different song mixes that I am working on and it is
>>> so much easier to find and correct things and so far appears to translate
>>> very similar to my simple home stereo system, bedroom Bose/CD wave radio
>>> and '04 Honda Accord car sound system. And that's what it's all about
>>> for me. This should make for a whole lot less trial and error mixing.
>>> My '06 Tundra truck sound system is not even close, but that's another
>>> issue.
>>>
>>> In my studio, I individually A/B'd the clock and the DAC against the
>>> Paris L/R monitor out and internal clock. In each case the clock and/or
>>> the DAC cleaned up the low/mid mushiness, allowed the kick to be heard
>>> with the bass and not a boom but a punch, spaced out the depth, ambiance
>>> and stereo field and overall gave clarity to the mix. Paris EDS efx's are
>>> more distinguishable now.
>>>
>>> Previously I used the Paris L/R monitor out to my 1604vlz (ch 15-16) trim
>>> off, eq flat, level at unity and the main's out to my Alesis RA-100 (yah,
>>> I know it's not so good, but I thought I was getting a decent flat ref
>>> amp when I bought it back in '96.) to yama's NS-10's and a sub under my
>>> desk for fill and to curl my toes.
>>>
>>> I was very suprised to find out how bad the Mackie colored the sound. A
>>> very noticable harshness around 1-2khz and possibly higher, lack of
>>> warmth between 100-300hz and just an overall sound like crowded, cramped,
>>> busy and flat tonality. Tweaking the 3 eq's helps but only removed about
>>> half the problem. This is compared to the MEC digita s/pdif out to the
>>> DAC1 and it's XLR outs to the RA-100 to the NS-10s. This sound was warm
>>> and round, almost surround. It put a smile on my face.
>>>
>>> I'm a happy camper. Special thanks to Dave, Kim, DJ, Miguel, Jeff and
>>> Neil. I guess my next purchase will be an appropriate reference pwr amp.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Wayne
>>> Paris since '97
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Big Ben and DAC1 [message #88037 is a reply to message #88036] |
Fri, 13 July 2007 05:52 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
The DAC-1 upsanples and reclocks the data stream so that whatever the Paris
clock has done during tracking or playback sounds considerably improved when
it hits the D/A converter. This doesn't provide better system clocking, but
IMO, the Paris D/A converters are it's weakest point and the A/D's improve
some when clocked from an external source. I really like the Lucid GenX-6.
No need for the more expensive 96k version either, with Paris.
Deej
"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:46976c86@linux...
> So just to be sure I understand, the biggest improvement was just putting
> the better converters into the chain, with the Paris clock?
>
> Wayne Carson wrote:
>> Bill,
>>
>> I did that, . . . sort of. The DAC has no clock in's or outs. I did run
>> Paris on internal clock and took the digital s/pdif out of the MEC to the
>> DAC and to the monitors and this is where I heard the biggest
>> improvement.
>>
>> Then I listened to my monitors without the DAC (my previous setup) and
>> clocked it with the Big Ben. It sounded more stable if you can
>> understand what I mean and did clean up the sound also, but not as
>> dramatic or noticable as with the DAC test.
>>
>> Everything I listened to was recorded on Paris internal so my initial
>> recordings used Paris's A/D and internal clock. I think I can hear a
>> little flutter in my recordings which I didn't hear before. I believe DJ
>> is right. Once I record with the Big Ben I'll probably truely hear the
>> clarity and separation.
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>>
>>
>> "Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:46959638@linux...
>>> Wayne, I'm curious how much difference you would hear if you clocked
>>> Paris to the DAC1 alone? Have you listened to that?
>>>
>>> Wayne Carson wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> It's been a week since I hooked up the benchmark and clock to my simple
>>>> 1-MEC w/two 8-in, 2-EDS, 1-C16 system. I used 3' apogee cables on both
>>>> and one 75 ohm term on the MEC s/pdif out. I did not use a bnc "T".
>>>>
>>>> It made a wonderful difference. I set the BB clock to internal at 44.1k
>>>> and used the bnc out to the MEC. I set Paris to word clock. That's
>>>> it. It locks at 44.1. I think I can even hear jitter on previously
>>>> recorded stuff, specifically on vocals when solo'ed, but then again it
>>>> could be the coffee!
>>>>
>>>> I've run 8 completely different song mixes that I am working on and it
>>>> is so much easier to find and correct things and so far appears to
>>>> translate very similar to my simple home stereo system, bedroom Bose/CD
>>>> wave radio and '04 Honda Accord car sound system. And that's what it's
>>>> all about for me. This should make for a whole lot less trial and
>>>> error mixing. My '06 Tundra truck sound system is not even close, but
>>>> that's another issue.
>>>>
>>>> In my studio, I individually A/B'd the clock and the DAC against the
>>>> Paris L/R monitor out and internal clock. In each case the clock
>>>> and/or the DAC cleaned up the low/mid mushiness, allowed the kick to be
>>>> heard with the bass and not a boom but a punch, spaced out the depth,
>>>> ambiance and stereo field and overall gave clarity to the mix. Paris
>>>> EDS efx's are more distinguishable now.
>>>>
>>>> Previously I used the Paris L/R monitor out to my 1604vlz (ch 15-16)
>>>> trim off, eq flat, level at unity and the main's out to my Alesis
>>>> RA-100 (yah, I know it's not so good, but I thought I was getting a
>>>> decent flat ref amp when I bought it back in '96.) to yama's NS-10's
>>>> and a sub under my desk for fill and to curl my toes.
>>>>
>>>> I was very suprised to find out how bad the Mackie colored the sound.
>>>> A very noticable harshness around 1-2khz and possibly higher, lack of
>>>> warmth between 100-300hz and just an overall sound like crowded,
>>>> cramped, busy and flat tonality. Tweaking the 3 eq's helps but only
>>>> removed about half the problem. This is compared to the MEC digita
>>>> s/pdif out to the DAC1 and it's XLR outs to the RA-100 to the NS-10s.
>>>> This sound was warm and round, almost surround. It put a smile on my
>>>> face.
>>>>
>>>> I'm a happy camper. Special thanks to Dave, Kim, DJ, Miguel, Jeff and
>>>> Neil. I guess my next purchase will be an appropriate reference pwr
>>>> amp.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Wayne
>>>> Paris since '97
>>
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Big Ben and DAC1 [message #88048 is a reply to message #87984] |
Fri, 13 July 2007 07:45 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
It's funny, you're about the tenth person I've heard talking about the ADAM
monitors. When I hear 2-3 people say something is great I take it seriously.
When it gets to double digits I start to wonder if it's herd instinct or
conventional wisdom, which I have found to be fairly unwise.
Also, it's a FACT that most people listen to music via some kind of lossy
compression. It might be FM radio, or it might be an iPod, but that's the
way the world is going. I rip to VBR .ogg files for lossy compression (which
I think is the best sounding out there, including Apple's compression which
sounds horrible to me) and use FLAC for lossless compression. It sure beats
carrying around a portable CD player and flip book of discs.
TCB
"Brad Lyons" <brad@audioandmidi.com> wrote:
>
>On one hand yes, on the other...no. The NS10's were a great representation
>of the real-world many years ago, and well they still are to a point today
>as well. BUT the quality of recording has improved so much and there are
>more end-users buying higher-qualtiy playback systems these days. It's
easy
>to think everyone listens to MP3's, I can't stand them to be honest--the
>audio quality is awful in even the best MP3's when compared to raw audio
>through high-resolution D/A's and monitors or high-end home theatre systems.
> I have clients buying MiniDAC's and DAC1's just for a home stereo, I even
>do it myself.
>
>Today, you really just need ONE good set of studio monitors to mix on...likewise,
>it's not a bad idea to have a playback set such as the NS10's, but I'd not
>personally mix on them. I've owned a few sets of NS10's over the years and
>I've NEVER mixed on them, only as a reference. With real-world, pro monitors
>(the ADAM A7's and DynAudio BM5A's are really the entry-level to "pro" IMHO
>these days) that allow you to actually hear what is going on, that will
make
>more of a difference than mixing on NS10's. You can't mix what you can't
>hear. Again, I'm not saying not to use NS10's at all...but I'd not recommend
>mixing on them because of their legacy.
>
>Brad Lyons
>Sweetwater
>
>"Wayne Carson" <carson_wayne@msn.com> wrote:
>>Brad,
>>
>>I've read on this newsgroup and have to agree (if I understood the posts
>
>>correctly, but am open to suggestions too) that the NS-10s, although a
bit
>
>>mid'ly and harsh, do a good job at throwing the bad things in your face.
> If
>>anyone can make a mix sound good on NS-10s, then it's probably gonna be
>
>>really good. Don't ya think?
>>
>>Wayne
>>
>>
>>"Brad Lyons" <brad@audioandmidi.com> wrote in message
>>news:469540ee$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Yep! Clocking is quite important, and many are surprised at just how
>much
>>> of a different a BigBen makes in most situations. I am running a BigBen
>>> in one of my studios, primarily because without it--nothing could function
>>> (I have multiple devices connected digitally as well as locked to house
>
>>> sync
>>> across multiple locations). I use the Apogee MiniDAC off of my Digidesign
>>> 192I/O, but the DAC1 kicks butt too!
>>>
>>> As to a better amp....NO NO NO, honestly--get some new monitors. The
>
>>> reality
>>> is if you're using NS10's, you're really missing out on a lot of other
>
>>> details.
>>> Without spending much money, check out the ADAM A7's. I own a set of
>the
>>> P33A's as well as a pair of the S1A's and one of the 10" ADAM subs.
I'm
>>> getting ready to get a second 10" sub and (5) A7's for surround....you'll
>>> be stunned when you mix on these things, seriously.
>>>
>>> Brad Lyons- Sweetwater
>>> www.audioandmidi.com
>>> "Wayne Carson" <carson_wayne@msn.com> wrote:
>>>>Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>It's been a week since I hooked up the benchmark and clock to my simple
>>>
>>>>1-MEC w/two 8-in, 2-EDS, 1-C16 system. I used 3' apogee cables on both
>>> and
>>>>one 75 ohm term on the MEC s/pdif out. I did not use a bnc "T".
>>>>
>>>>It made a wonderful difference. I set the BB clock to internal at 44.1k
>>> and
>>>>used the bnc out to the MEC. I set Paris to word clock. That's it.
>It
>>>
>>>>locks at 44.1. I think I can even hear jitter on previously recorded
>
>>>>stuff,
>>>
>>>>specifically on vocals when solo'ed, but then again it could be the
>>>>coffee!
>>>>
>>>>I've run 8 completely different song mixes that I am working on and it
>is
>>> so
>>>>much easier to find and correct things and so far appears to translate
>
>>>>very
>>>
>>>>similar to my simple home stereo system, bedroom Bose/CD wave radio and
>>> '04
>>>>Honda Accord car sound system. And that's what it's all about for me.
>>> This
>>>>should make for a whole lot less trial and error mixing. My '06 Tundra
>>>
>>>>truck sound system is not even close, but that's another issue.
>>>>
>>>>In my studio, I individually A/B'd the clock and the DAC against the
Paris
>>>
>>>>L/R monitor out and internal clock. In each case the clock and/or the
>DAC
>>>
>>>>cleaned up the low/mid mushiness, allowed the kick to be heard with the
>>> bass
>>>>and not a boom but a punch, spaced out the depth, ambiance and stereo
>
>>>>field
>>>
>>>>and overall gave clarity to the mix. Paris EDS efx's are more
>>>>distinguishable now.
>>>>
>>>>Previously I used the Paris L/R monitor out to my 1604vlz (ch 15-16)
trim
>>>
>>>>off, eq flat, level at unity and the main's out to my Alesis RA-100 (yah,
>>> I
>>>>know it's not so good, but I thought I was getting a decent flat ref
amp
>>>
>>>>when I bought it back in '96.) to yama's NS-10's and a sub under my desk
>>> for
>>>>fill and to curl my toes.
>>>>
>>>>I was very suprised to find out how bad the Mackie colored the sound.
> A
>>>
>>>>very noticable harshness around 1-2khz and possibly higher, lack of warmth
>>>
>>>>between 100-300hz and just an overall sound like crowded, cramped, busy
>>> and
>>>>flat tonality. Tweaking the 3 eq's helps but only removed about half
>the
>>>
>>>>problem. This is compared to the MEC digita s/pdif out to the DAC1 and
>
>>>>it's
>>>
>>>>XLR outs to the RA-100 to the NS-10s. This sound was warm and round,
>
>>>>almost
>>>
>>>>surround. It put a smile on my face.
>>>>
>>>>I'm a happy camper. Special thanks to Dave, Kim, DJ, Miguel, Jeff and
>
>>>>Neil.
>>>
>>>>I guess my next purchase will be an appropriate reference pwr amp.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>Wayne
>>>>Paris since '97
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Big Ben and DAC1 [message #88055 is a reply to message #88036] |
Fri, 13 July 2007 10:19 |
Wayne Carson
Messages: 86
Registered: June 2007
|
Member |
|
|
Bill,
Yes. For me, the MEC s/pdif out to the DAC made the biggest improvement
(more noticable sound clarity) even with the Paris clock.
I still use Paris's 8-in's A/D converters in the MEC when recording.
Wayne
"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:46976c86@linux...
> So just to be sure I understand, the biggest improvement was just putting
> the better converters into the chain, with the Paris clock?
>
> Wayne Carson wrote:
>> Bill,
>>
>> I did that, . . . sort of. The DAC has no clock in's or outs. I did run
>> Paris on internal clock and took the digital s/pdif out of the MEC to the
>> DAC and to the monitors and this is where I heard the biggest
>> improvement.
>>
>> Then I listened to my monitors without the DAC (my previous setup) and
>> clocked it with the Big Ben. It sounded more stable if you can
>> understand what I mean and did clean up the sound also, but not as
>> dramatic or noticable as with the DAC test.
>>
>> Everything I listened to was recorded on Paris internal so my initial
>> recordings used Paris's A/D and internal clock. I think I can hear a
>> little flutter in my recordings which I didn't hear before. I believe DJ
>> is right. Once I record with the Big Ben I'll probably truely hear the
>> clarity and separation.
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>>
>>
>> "Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:46959638@linux...
>>> Wayne, I'm curious how much difference you would hear if you clocked
>>> Paris to the DAC1 alone? Have you listened to that?
>>>
>>> Wayne Carson wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> It's been a week since I hooked up the benchmark and clock to my simple
>>>> 1-MEC w/two 8-in, 2-EDS, 1-C16 system. I used 3' apogee cables on both
>>>> and one 75 ohm term on the MEC s/pdif out. I did not use a bnc "T".
>>>>
>>>> It made a wonderful difference. I set the BB clock to internal at 44.1k
>>>> and used the bnc out to the MEC. I set Paris to word clock. That's
>>>> it. It locks at 44.1. I think I can even hear jitter on previously
>>>> recorded stuff, specifically on vocals when solo'ed, but then again it
>>>> could be the coffee!
>>>>
>>>> I've run 8 completely different song mixes that I am working on and it
>>>> is so much easier to find and correct things and so far appears to
>>>> translate very similar to my simple home stereo system, bedroom Bose/CD
>>>> wave radio and '04 Honda Accord car sound system. And that's what it's
>>>> all about for me. This should make for a whole lot less trial and
>>>> error mixing. My '06 Tundra truck sound system is not even close, but
>>>> that's another issue.
>>>>
>>>> In my studio, I individually A/B'd the clock and the DAC against the
>>>> Paris L/R monitor out and internal clock. In each case the clock
>>>> and/or the DAC cleaned up the low/mid mushiness, allowed the kick to be
>>>> heard with the bass and not a boom but a punch, spaced out the depth,
>>>> ambiance and stereo field and overall gave clarity to the mix. Paris
>>>> EDS efx's are more distinguishable now.
>>>>
>>>> Previously I used the Paris L/R monitor out to my 1604vlz (ch 15-16)
>>>> trim off, eq flat, level at unity and the main's out to my Alesis
>>>> RA-100 (yah, I know it's not so good, but I thought I was getting a
>>>> decent flat ref amp when I bought it back in '96.) to yama's NS-10's
>>>> and a sub under my desk for fill and to curl my toes.
>>>>
>>>> I was very suprised to find out how bad the Mackie colored the sound.
>>>> A very noticable harshness around 1-2khz and possibly higher, lack of
>>>> warmth between 100-300hz and just an overall sound like crowded,
>>>> cramped, busy and flat tonality. Tweaking the 3 eq's helps but only
>>>> removed about half the problem. This is compared to the MEC digita
>>>> s/pdif out to the DAC1 and it's XLR outs to the RA-100 to the NS-10s.
>>>> This sound was warm and round, almost surround. It put a smile on my
>>>> face.
>>>>
>>>> I'm a happy camper. Special thanks to Dave, Kim, DJ, Miguel, Jeff and
>>>> Neil. I guess my next purchase will be an appropriate reference pwr
>>>> amp.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Wayne
>>>> Paris since '97
>>
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Big Ben and DAC1 [message #88068 is a reply to message #88025] |
Fri, 13 July 2007 23:33 |
audioguy_editout_
Messages: 249
Registered: December 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
While you're out listening... Check out the Focal Twin 6
David.
Wayne Carson wrote:
> Thanks Brad. I'm on board for checking out the Adams. I didn't know they
> were active. That pretty much solves the amp issue. Thanks again.
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>
>
> "Brad Lyons" <brad@audioandmidi.com> wrote in message
> news:46967bda$1@linux...
>
>>I can get a mix to sound good on the Peavey Versaray, but that doesn't
>>mean
>>it will be as good across multiple systems. NS10's were wonderful in
>>their
>>day, but today---gear quality has changed dramatically. They are fine for
>>listen-back, but they won't show you in-depth frequency. Mix on any kind
>>of Adam's sometime, you'll know what I mean within 30-seconds.
>>
>>Brad
>>
>>"Wayne Carson" <carson_wayne@msn.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Brad,
>>>
>>>I've read on this newsgroup and have to agree (if I understood the posts
>>
>>>correctly, but am open to suggestions too) that the NS-10s, although a bit
>>
>>>mid'ly and harsh, do a good job at throwing the bad things in your face.
>>
>>If
>>
>>>anyone can make a mix sound good on NS-10s, then it's probably gonna be
>>
>>>really good. Don't ya think?
>>>
>>>Wayne
>>>
>>>
>>>"Brad Lyons" <brad@audioandmidi.com> wrote in message
>>>news:469540ee$1@linux...
>>>
>>>>Yep! Clocking is quite important, and many are surprised at just how
>>
>>much
>>
>>>>of a different a BigBen makes in most situations. I am running a BigBen
>>>>in one of my studios, primarily because without it--nothing could
>>>>function
>>>>(I have multiple devices connected digitally as well as locked to house
>>
>>>>sync
>>>>across multiple locations). I use the Apogee MiniDAC off of my
>>>>Digidesign
>>>>192I/O, but the DAC1 kicks butt too!
>>>>
>>>>As to a better amp....NO NO NO, honestly--get some new monitors. The
>>
>>>>reality
>>>>is if you're using NS10's, you're really missing out on a lot of other
>>
>>>>details.
>>>>Without spending much money, check out the ADAM A7's. I own a set of
>>
>>the
>>
>>>>P33A's as well as a pair of the S1A's and one of the 10" ADAM subs. I'm
>>>>getting ready to get a second 10" sub and (5) A7's for
>>>>surround....you'll
>>>>be stunned when you mix on these things, seriously.
>>>>
>>>>Brad Lyons- Sweetwater
>>>>www.audioandmidi.com
>>>>"Wayne Carson" <carson_wayne@msn.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>>It's been a week since I hooked up the benchmark and clock to my simple
>>>>
>>>>>1-MEC w/two 8-in, 2-EDS, 1-C16 system. I used 3' apogee cables on both
>>>>
>>>>and
>>>>
>>>>>one 75 ohm term on the MEC s/pdif out. I did not use a bnc "T".
>>>>>
>>>>>It made a wonderful difference. I set the BB clock to internal at 44.1k
>>>>
>>>>and
>>>>
>>>>>used the bnc out to the MEC. I set Paris to word clock. That's it.
>>
>>It
>>
>>>>>locks at 44.1. I think I can even hear jitter on previously recorded
>>
>>>>>stuff,
>>>>
>>>>>specifically on vocals when solo'ed, but then again it could be the
>>>>>coffee!
>>>>>
>>>>>I've run 8 completely different song mixes that I am working on and it
>>
>>is
>>
>>>>so
>>>>
>>>>>much easier to find and correct things and so far appears to translate
>>
>>>>>very
>>>>
>>>>>similar to my simple home stereo system, bedroom Bose/CD wave radio and
>>>>
>>>>'04
>>>>
>>>>>Honda Accord car sound system. And that's what it's all about for me.
>>>>
>>>>This
>>>>
>>>>>should make for a whole lot less trial and error mixing. My '06 Tundra
>>>>
>>>>>truck sound system is not even close, but that's another issue.
>>>>>
>>>>>In my studio, I individually A/B'd the clock and the DAC against the
>>>>>Paris
>>>>
>>>>>L/R monitor out and internal clock. In each case the clock and/or the
>>
>>DAC
>>
>>>>>cleaned up the low/mid mushiness, allowed the kick to be heard with the
>>>>
>>>>bass
>>>>
>>>>>and not a boom but a punch, spaced out the depth, ambiance and stereo
>>
>>>>>field
>>>>
>>>>>and overall gave clarity to the mix. Paris EDS efx's are more
>>>>>distinguishable now.
>>>>>
>>>>>Previously I used the Paris L/R monitor out to my 1604vlz (ch 15-16)
>>>>>trim
>>>>
>>>>>off, eq flat, level at unity and the main's out to my Alesis RA-100
>>>>>(yah,
>>>>
>>>>I
>>>>
>>>>>know it's not so good, but I thought I was getting a decent flat ref amp
>>>>
>>>>>when I bought it back in '96.) to yama's NS-10's and a sub under my desk
>>>>
>>>>for
>>>>
>>>>>fill and to curl my toes.
>>>>>
>>>>>I was very suprised to find out how bad the Mackie colored the sound.
>>
>>A
>>
>>>>>very noticable harshness around 1-2khz and possibly higher, lack of
>>>>>warmth
>>>>
>>>>>between 100-300hz and just an overall sound like crowded, cramped, busy
>>>>
>>>>and
>>>>
>>>>>flat tonality. Tweaking the 3 eq's helps but only removed about half
>>
>>the
>>
>>>>>problem. This is compared to the MEC digita s/pdif out to the DAC1 and
>>
>>>>>it's
>>>>
>>>>>XLR outs to the RA-100 to the NS-10s. This sound was warm and round,
>>
>>>>>almost
>>>>
>>>>>surround. It put a smile on my face.
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm a happy camper. Special thanks to Dave, Kim, DJ, Miguel, Jeff and
>>
>>>>>Neil.
>>>>
>>>>>I guess my next purchase will be an appropriate reference pwr amp.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>Wayne
>>>>>Paris since '97
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
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|
| Re: Big Ben and DAC1 [message #88092 is a reply to message #88067] |
Sat, 14 July 2007 15:45 |
BradLyons
Messages: 36
Registered: July 2007
|
Member |
|
|
Yep! People say bass is non-directional and honestly, that just isn't true.
My room is tuned quite well, the monitoring chain has no short-comings from
the microphone to my monitors. By moving the sub around the room, you can
hear it's placement. Likewise, different placement yields different results.
So I'm going to put one Adam 10" Sub on the left and one on the right configured
in a 3-way design.
Brad
"Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote:
>Better imaging with TWO subs???
>
>David.
>
>Brad Lyons wrote:
>
>> Rod,
>>
>> Yeah---I'm with ya! I've always been "anal" about audio fidelity and
sound,
>> I don't settle for low or even mid-grade. My monitoring setup is high-grade....
>> Digidesign 192I/O to an Apogee MiniDAC into a pair of ADAM Audio S1A's
and
>> an Adam 10" sub, I'm about to add a second subwoofer for better imaging.
>> That chain right there is $10,0000 just to listen to 2-channels of audio
>> and believe me, you can hear the SLIGHTEST little detail. It's hard to
listen
>> to CD's in that system because it's capable of far better fidelity.
>>
>> Brad Lyons
>>
>> "Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"Brad Lyons" <brad@audioandmidi.com> wrote:
>>>It's easy
>>>to think everyone listens to MP3's, I can't stand them to be honest--the
>>>audio quality is awful in even the best MP3's when compared to raw audio
>>>through high-resolution D/A's and monitors or high-end home theatre systems.
>>>
>>>I totally agree. I really don't get any enjoyment out of listening to
mp3's.
>>>They're kind of like cassettes. Handy for learning songs, but not good.
>>
>> Most
>>
>>>of my friends look at me like I'm crazy when I say that. Good to know
someone
>>>lese feels the same way.
>>>Rod
>>
>>
|
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|
|
|
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|
|
|
|
| Re: Big Ben and DAC1 [message #88153 is a reply to message #88092] |
Sun, 15 July 2007 20:44 |
audioguy_editout_
Messages: 249
Registered: December 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
If you want better imaging, turn the sub off... really, you
will just be adding LF problems with a second sub. Use the
sub to check the LF content periodically, but mix with it
off... I use a footswitch on our LSR sub for this very purpose.
David.
Brad Lyons wrote:
> Yep! People say bass is non-directional and honestly, that just isn't true.
> My room is tuned quite well, the monitoring chain has no short-comings from
> the microphone to my monitors. By moving the sub around the room, you can
> hear it's placement. Likewise, different placement yields different results.
> So I'm going to put one Adam 10" Sub on the left and one on the right configured
> in a 3-way design.
>
> Brad
>
> "Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>>Better imaging with TWO subs???
>>
>>David.
>>
>>Brad Lyons wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Rod,
>>>
>>>Yeah---I'm with ya! I've always been "anal" about audio fidelity and
>
> sound,
>
>>>I don't settle for low or even mid-grade. My monitoring setup is high-grade....
>>> Digidesign 192I/O to an Apogee MiniDAC into a pair of ADAM Audio S1A's
>
> and
>
>>>an Adam 10" sub, I'm about to add a second subwoofer for better imaging.
>>> That chain right there is $10,0000 just to listen to 2-channels of audio
>>>and believe me, you can hear the SLIGHTEST little detail. It's hard to
>
> listen
>
>>>to CD's in that system because it's capable of far better fidelity.
>>>
>>>Brad Lyons
>>>
>>>"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Brad Lyons" <brad@audioandmidi.com> wrote:
>>>>It's easy
>>>>to think everyone listens to MP3's, I can't stand them to be honest--the
>>>>audio quality is awful in even the best MP3's when compared to raw audio
>>>>through high-resolution D/A's and monitors or high-end home theatre systems.
>>>>
>>>>I totally agree. I really don't get any enjoyment out of listening to
>
> mp3's.
>
>>>>They're kind of like cassettes. Handy for learning songs, but not good.
>>>
>>>Most
>>>
>>>
>>>>of my friends look at me like I'm crazy when I say that. Good to know
>
> someone
>
>>>>lese feels the same way.
>>>>Rod
>>>
>>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Big Ben and DAC1 [message #88157 is a reply to message #88153] |
Sun, 15 July 2007 23:19 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Agreed..........my NHT B-20's have sume ot mono and a kill switch.
;o)
"Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:469aeaf6$1@linux...
> If you want better imaging, turn the sub off... really, you will just be
> adding LF problems with a second sub. Use the sub to check the LF content
> periodically, but mix with it off... I use a footswitch on our LSR sub for
> this very purpose.
>
> David.
>
> Brad Lyons wrote:
>> Yep! People say bass is non-directional and honestly, that just isn't
>> true.
>> My room is tuned quite well, the monitoring chain has no short-comings
>> from
>> the microphone to my monitors. By moving the sub around the room, you
>> can
>> hear it's placement. Likewise, different placement yields different
>> results.
>> So I'm going to put one Adam 10" Sub on the left and one on the right
>> configured
>> in a 3-way design. Brad
>>
>> "Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>Better imaging with TWO subs???
>>>
>>>David.
>>>
>>>Brad Lyons wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Rod,
>>>>
>>>>Yeah---I'm with ya! I've always been "anal" about audio fidelity and
>>
>> sound,
>>
>>>>I don't settle for low or even mid-grade. My monitoring setup is
>>>>high-grade....
>>>> Digidesign 192I/O to an Apogee MiniDAC into a pair of ADAM Audio S1A's
>>
>> and
>>
>>>>an Adam 10" sub, I'm about to add a second subwoofer for better imaging.
>>>> That chain right there is $10,0000 just to listen to 2-channels of
>>>> audio
>>>>and believe me, you can hear the SLIGHTEST little detail. It's hard to
>>
>> listen
>>
>>>>to CD's in that system because it's capable of far better fidelity.
>>>>Brad Lyons
>>>>
>>>>"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Brad Lyons" <brad@audioandmidi.com> wrote:
>>>>>It's easy
>>>>>to think everyone listens to MP3's, I can't stand them to be
>>>>>honest--the
>>>>>audio quality is awful in even the best MP3's when compared to raw
>>>>>audio
>>>>>through high-resolution D/A's and monitors or high-end home theatre
>>>>>systems.
>>>>>
>>>>>I totally agree. I really don't get any enjoyment out of listening to
>>
>> mp3's.
>>
>>>>>They're kind of like cassettes. Handy for learning songs, but not good.
>>>>
>>>>Most
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>of my friends look at me like I'm crazy when I say that. Good to know
>>
>> someone
>>
>>>>>lese feels the same way.
>>>>>Rod
>>>>
>>>>
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Big Ben and DAC1 [message #88158 is a reply to message #88116] |
Mon, 16 July 2007 00:32 |
|
|
Yeah, but when you start doing those Club Dance Remixes of our favorite Bluegrass
Classics... You'll be ready!
Anyone here remember a band called Run C&W?
Gantt
"DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _ net> wrote:
>I'm using two subs here. You've gotta be very careful about phase
>cancellation. Two subs can = some wimpy gradoo if you're not careful. Mine
>are 7.5' apart and are firing forward, not inward toward the sweet spot.
I
>can punch a hole through the back wall with the LF, which is exactly what
I
>need for recording acoustic guitars and banjos.
>
>;oP
>
>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:469a3c9e$1@linux...
>>
>> "Brad Lyons" <brad@audioandmidi.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Yep! People say bass is non-directional and honestly, that just isn't
>>>true.
>>
>> It may not be non-directional, but it carries so much energy,
>> and with waveforms that have lengths of entire rooms or longer,
>> it's "virtually" non-directional.
>> Not saying that two subs might not be beneficial - I've never
>> really mixed with a subwoofer, so I have no idea in that
>> regard.
>>
>> Neil
>
>
Gantt Kushner
Gizmo Recording Company
Silver Spring, MD
www.gizmorecording.com
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| Re: Big Ben and DAC1 [message #88164 is a reply to message #88158] |
Mon, 16 July 2007 05:22 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
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Senior Member |
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yup. Funny bunch, kind of a predeccesor to the new guys at comedy central,
Van Heffer. You got the VH album yet, it's on iTunes?
AA
"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:469b1f1c$1@linux...
>
> Yeah, but when you start doing those Club Dance Remixes of our favorite
> Bluegrass
> Classics... You'll be ready!
>
> Anyone here remember a band called Run C&W?
>
> Gantt
>
> "DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _ net> wrote:
>>I'm using two subs here. You've gotta be very careful about phase
>>cancellation. Two subs can = some wimpy gradoo if you're not careful. Mine
>
>>are 7.5' apart and are firing forward, not inward toward the sweet spot.
> I
>>can punch a hole through the back wall with the LF, which is exactly what
> I
>>need for recording acoustic guitars and banjos.
>>
>>;oP
>>
>>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:469a3c9e$1@linux...
>>>
>>> "Brad Lyons" <brad@audioandmidi.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Yep! People say bass is non-directional and honestly, that just isn't
>
>>>>true.
>>>
>>> It may not be non-directional, but it carries so much energy,
>>> and with waveforms that have lengths of entire rooms or longer,
>>> it's "virtually" non-directional.
>>> Not saying that two subs might not be beneficial - I've never
>>> really mixed with a subwoofer, so I have no idea in that
>>> regard.
>>>
>>> Neil
>>
>>
>
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| Re: Big Ben and DAC1 [message #88214 is a reply to message #88153] |
Mon, 16 July 2007 18:36 |
BradLyons
Messages: 36
Registered: July 2007
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Member |
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If everything is done right, a second sub is just fine---in fact, a very good
mastering client of mine turned me on to it. It really does make a difference.
My room can handle it, I built it that way :-)
Brad
"Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote:
>If you want better imaging, turn the sub off... really, you
>will just be adding LF problems with a second sub. Use the
>sub to check the LF content periodically, but mix with it
>off... I use a footswitch on our LSR sub for this very purpose.
>
>David.
>
>Brad Lyons wrote:
>> Yep! People say bass is non-directional and honestly, that just isn't
true.
>> My room is tuned quite well, the monitoring chain has no short-comings
from
>> the microphone to my monitors. By moving the sub around the room, you
can
>> hear it's placement. Likewise, different placement yields different results.
>> So I'm going to put one Adam 10" Sub on the left and one on the right
configured
>> in a 3-way design.
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> "Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>Better imaging with TWO subs???
>>>
>>>David.
>>>
>>>Brad Lyons wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Rod,
>>>>
>>>>Yeah---I'm with ya! I've always been "anal" about audio fidelity and
>>
>> sound,
>>
>>>>I don't settle for low or even mid-grade. My monitoring setup is high-grade....
>>>> Digidesign 192I/O to an Apogee MiniDAC into a pair of ADAM Audio S1A's
>>
>> and
>>
>>>>an Adam 10" sub, I'm about to add a second subwoofer for better imaging.
>>>> That chain right there is $10,0000 just to listen to 2-channels of audio
>>>>and believe me, you can hear the SLIGHTEST little detail. It's hard
to
>>
>> listen
>>
>>>>to CD's in that system because it's capable of far better fidelity.
>>>>
>>>>Brad Lyons
>>>>
>>>>"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Brad Lyons" <brad@audioandmidi.com> wrote:
>>>>>It's easy
>>>>>to think everyone listens to MP3's, I can't stand them to be honest--the
>>>>>audio quality is awful in even the best MP3's when compared to raw audio
>>>>>through high-resolution D/A's and monitors or high-end home theatre
systems.
>>>>>
>>>>>I totally agree. I really don't get any enjoyment out of listening to
>>
>> mp3's.
>>
>>>>>They're kind of like cassettes. Handy for learning songs, but not good.
>>>>
>>>>Most
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>of my friends look at me like I'm crazy when I say that. Good to know
>>
>> someone
>>
>>>>>lese feels the same way.
>>>>>Rod
>>>>
>>>>
>>
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