Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Apple says Ok, to running Windows XP on a Mac!
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| Re: Apple says Ok, to running Windows XP on a Mac! [message #66290 is a reply to message #66277] |
Fri, 07 April 2006 07:50   |
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dc[4]
Messages: 62
Registered: September 2005
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Member |
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Good points Dedric.
DC
Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>On 4/6/06 6:02 PM, in article 4435ac00$1@linux, "DC" <dc@buggerbothofem.org>
>wrote:
>> But that is how you get stuff that works! And I must say that
>> Mac people are WAY less proprietary than PC people. I have been
>> trying to get Autodesk to port AutoCad over to Mac for a decade
>> and they won't do it. MOST mac app writers are cross-platform
>> minded, and most PC writers are not. Also I have seen IT pukes
>
>Hey DC - ummm, that might be your perspective from Autocad, and while it's
>probably an industry standard for the design world (not in that business),
>it's hardly a reference for which camp is the most cross platform minded,
>and it's been PC based for longer than the Mac could run design software,
>and being a math-based approach, it is probably better suited to Intel style
>cpus. Motorola 68k series (early-mid Macs) were graphics cpus - not great
>for number crunching. So, porting to Mac might be too costly for Autodesk,
>at least for that application based on it's code and design. Sometimes
the
>changes are so significant that it's a complete rewrite from the ground
up.
>
>I see the other perspective, being a former Logic user - need I say more?
>It was Mac based, then finally added PC support, then Apple nixed that,
now
>it's Mac only, forevermore. I can't think of a PC developer that ditched
>the Mac platform just because it was "the other" platform.
>
>Companies that are cross-platform are usually ones that need, or want
>customers in both camps to maximize their market and have a product that
is
>easy to port. Companies that are platform-centric usually can't afford
to
>port, or don't have enough customers needing it to warrant the development
>cost. Just economics, not politics, unless you are Apple or Microsoft (Win
>Media Player support for Macs being dropped - Quicktime support for PCs
>seems to be dying out also as QT7 has been inoperable on PC for over a year
>with no fix in sight).
>
>Regards,
>Dedric
>
>> try to enforce a "no macs" policy on entire campus. The faculty
>> laugh at them, then the IT pukes try to get purchase-order veto
>> power on all computers, then the faculty get together and go to the
>> provost and the provost tells the IT pukes to go fall in the porta
>> potties and die. You would not believe how nasty this has gotten
>> on some college campuses... People have gotten fired or resigned
>> over this stupid issue.
>>
>>
>>> One can never have too many computers.......or Pultecs......;o)
>>
>> Actually, I have a principle I call DC's Law. Since all equipment fails
>>
>> at some point, it says that the possibility of equipment failure at any
>> given moment is exponentially related to the number of pieces of
>> equipment in a studio. At some point, the possibility of equipment failure
>> reaches 100%. Each computer is worth 25 Pultecs in
>> estimating your failure probability for any given session...
>>
>> grrrr
>>
>> DC
>>
>
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| Re: Apple says Ok, to running Windows XP on a Mac! [message #66292 is a reply to message #66289] |
Fri, 07 April 2006 08:11 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
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Senior Member |
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We are talking about DAWs, which is why it's surprising you cut out the section
of my email that talks about MIDI. Sometimes, Don, you're just so . . . transparent
I guess is the best word. Other more or less open standards like ASIO, SMPTE,
.wav files themselves, and so on are proof that proprietary things like TDM,
.sd2, and their ilk are more likely to gum the works than anything. Open
standards = good in almost all situations, proprietary = bad in most. I'm
surprised I even have to argue this on a ng full of people bitten on the
ass by the failure of a certain proprietary audio system, with it's own proprietary
file format, no standard hardware drivers, dodge VST implementation, etc.
But hey, what do I know, I'm just an 'IT puke' anyway.
TCB
"DC" <dc@spamitpukes.com> wrote:
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>>As an 'IT puke' who works at a University I can assure you that this is
>24
>>karat horseshit.
>
>Hah! Looks like we caught one. I could name three Univ. where
>this has happened. Not horseshit
>
>>In 99% of the cases us 'IT pukes' are forced to cater to
>>the silliest whims of academics with too much time on their hands who don't
>>know a mousepad from a malted milk. Including supporting their creaky old
>>Macs they love so much and that don't deal with MIME attachments properly
>>and use medieval networking like Appletalk (great for a home office, not
>>great chatting away with every device on the network), and so on.
>
>
>Oh yeah, all this happens too. Fun job huh?
>
>
>>And if proprietariness [sic] is what 'makes things work' then why is the
>>most popular and stable web server Apache? Why is the most secure and
stable
>>operating system BSD? Why does IBM recommend Linux to their customers?
What
>>'makes things work' is open standards and punishment for those refusing
>to
>>follow them.
>
>
>Gee, and I thought we were talking about DAW's and building your
>own computer vs. buying an optimized one...
>
>It's like being back on campus again!! arrrgghhhh
>
>DC
>
>
>
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| Re: Apple says Ok, to running Windows XP on a Mac! [message #66293 is a reply to message #66292] |
Fri, 07 April 2006 08:27 |
DC
Messages: 722
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>We are talking about DAWs, which is why it's surprising you cut out the
section
>of my email that talks about MIDI. Sometimes, Don, you're just so . . .
transparent
Wow, I guess then that other stuff was in there for
well, what, relevance?
Thad, sometimes you're so... ah who cares? The point is important
that it is possible to buy a DAW that needs little debugging.
To me, it is money well-spent.
>I guess is the best word. Other more or less open standards like ASIO, SMPTE,
>wav files themselves, and so on are proof that proprietary things like TDM,
>sd2, and their ilk are more likely to gum the works than anything.
Except that you can still buy a DAW that works out of the box.
Many of us like that.
>Open
>standards = good in almost all situations, proprietary = bad in most. I'm
>surprised I even have to argue this on a ng full of people bitten on the
>ass by the failure of a certain proprietary audio system, with it's own
proprietary
>file format, no standard hardware drivers, dodge VST implementation, etc.
>But hey, what do I know, I'm just an 'IT puke' anyway.
My proprietary DAW here,
which I have at most 5K into, is about to produce a great live
record in another week. And you call this an ass-bite?
In reality, it is one of the great bargains of audio history, despite
the IT-puke perspective, which while all true, is of limited
importance and the perspective is badly skewed.
After all,
Goofy academics who don't know a mouse from a milkshake still
write world-class research on computers you hate and we still
make great records with Paris.
DC
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| Re: Apple says Ok, to running Windows XP on a Mac! [message #66315 is a reply to message #66241] |
Fri, 07 April 2006 14:11 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
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Senior Member |
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Deej, I agree that Apple has done some greedy things in recent times, but
they were not always like that. I think that Microsoft set the standards
for corporate greed in the computer industry, now companies like Apple do
the same kind of things to keep going strong. The value of a company is
based on what Wall Street thinks of it, and Wall Street seams to love corporate
greed!
Apple is a corporation, and they are in the business to make money. I was
surprised that they didn't do the Boot Camp thing in January. I have to
think it was something they considered and were working on, I just don't
think it was ready in time for MacWorld. It's still not ready for prime
time, it's a beta.
The thing that holds Apple back from really going for it is Microsoft Office,
it is the world standard. That would be a hard one for Apple to take on.
If Microsoft dropped support for the Mac version on MS Office, Apple would
have some real headaches, and lose considerable business. So Apple is less
likely to compete with Microsoft by making available a version of Mac OSX
that will run on any PC hardware. Also a big part of Apples net profits
come from their hardware sales. Those expensive Apple computers, keep Apple,
a hardware company.
If MS ever drops MS Office, Apple will put out a version of Mac OS that will
run on PC hardware.
This deal with Boot Camp is a win win deal for both MS and Apple. The best
part for the moment is, it doesn't cost a Mac user any more money to have
this capability!
James
"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>Sleaze is a relative thing. What offends me about Apple is that they are
no
>different than Microsoft.. They just try to make the public believe they
>are. In reality, the corporate thinking is the same.....survival at all
>costs. Nothing particularly wrong with this from a corporate standpoint.
>It's what corporations do.
>
>"Tony Benson" <tony@standinghampton.com> wrote in message
>news:44356490@linux...
>> Apple's sleazy? Duh! No wonder I've always been so attracted to them!
;>)
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
>> news:44355d39$1@linux...
>> >I think what he's saying is that Apple is just as sleazy as they've
>always
>> > branded Microsoft to be......which is what I've been saying all along
>> > anyway.
>> >
>> > ;o)
>> >
>> > "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> > news:44354eb1$1@linux...
>> >>
>> >> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >Yeah, Smart! Apple gave the people what they wanted. I guess your
>> > saying
>> >> >that Apple are the thieves of the computer industry??? Well you can
>> > still
>> >> >use the hacked version, apple said they wouldn't stop you.
>> >> >
>> >> >And for Apple's next trick,....running windows software under Mac
OSX!
>> >> >
>> >> >James
>> >>
>> >> P.S. They maid it easy on the user! That's what Apple does!
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Well it's about time. Another crappy, proprietary OS to run on
>> > expensive,
>> >> >>shiny hardware. But here's the thing. The hacker community already
>had
>> >> this
>> >> >>working
>> >> >>
>> >> >>http://onmac.net/
>> >> >>
>> >> >>for quite some time now. And Apple was sniffing around them with
DMCA
>> > threats
>> >> >>being the good hearted slobs they are. Can you get source to Boot
>Camp?
>> >> >Can
>> >> >>you read the filesystem from the other partition? I also wonder if
>> >> >>Apple
>> >> >>hijacked some BSD licensed boot loader, but I digress.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>That said, and I can't believe I'm writing this, Apple has added
NINE
>> > BILLION
>> >> >>DOLLARS of market cap since Monday close. When markets closed Monday
>> >> >>you
>> >> >>could go to the above website and downlaod a bootloader that would
>let
>> >> you
>> >> >>run XP on a Mac. Or if you were a little smarter you could put Ubuntu
>> >> >>on
>> >> >>it. Then, on Tuesday, Apple announced that users could do what users
>> > already
>> >> >>could do. And thanks to that they are now worth another nine billion
>> > dollars
>> >> >>and are trading at THIRTY THREE TIMES earnings. The next person who
>> > tells
>> >> >>me markets are efficient is getting a ball peen hammer to the temple.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>TCB
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: Apple says Ok, to running Windows XP on a Mac! [message #66318 is a reply to message #66315] |
Fri, 07 April 2006 14:46 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
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Senior Member |
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Since both M$oft and Apple are publicly traded corporations they are actually
legally and morally responsible for doing everything not illegal/immoral
to make money for their shareholders. That can be done by paying dividends
(M$oft finally was guilt tripped into doing that a while back) or by increasing
their share price. By any standards Appple has been spectacular at the latter
lately, adding over $9 billion in market cap this week by announcing that
people could now do what they could already do. Apple has also been a rocket
stock over the past few years, regularly running up in price, splitting,
and then running up again. As someone who owns a little bit of each stock
(via index ETFs, I shy away from individual tech companies), I hope M$oft
comes out Monday and announces, similarly, that Windows now has a Start button
and their stock spikes up.
Are they greedy? Well, to me corporate greed is buying diamonds from central
Africa, exploiting bubbles in futures markets to price gouge for gasoline,
and manipulating electricity grids to steal money from state utilities. On
that scale Apple and M$oft are pups. On the morality front my guess is that
Apple is involved in more shady stuff simply because they are a hardware
manufacturer and a fair amount of labor abuse and environmental damage is
caused when computer parts are outsourced. But that's a luck of the draw
thing for which they can't be held too responsible.
But what's keeping Apple back is not M$oft office. OpenOffice.org works splendidly
on Macs and is so close to MSOffice that it's staggering price advantage
(free) would remove any advantage the MS version has. I think there are a
few things holding Apple back. Price is a big one. A lack of an enterprise
class server product is another, and before I hear about X-Serves I can buy
WAY cheaper hardware for a server and put BSD on it if I want mach stability
or linux if I want microkernel performance. The REAL reason, though, that
I think Apple is never going to be much more than a niche player is . . .
Microsoft Outlook. The corporate end users want their groupware and are completely
unwilling to give it up. Nobody else has stepped up with a similar product
(on any platform) and until someone does M$oft will rule the office desktop,
and then rule a pretty big chunk of the home market simply for interoperatility
reasons. If I were starting a smallish office now, say less than 30 people,
there _are_ linux groupware tools that I would really try to use. I don't
know how well they scale, but I'd give it a shot, but I would also be that
rare brave soul who will take a shot on something like that. I might get
beaten down and switch to Outlook anyway. No groupware = nearly zero corporate
clients = niche player.
TCB
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Deej, I agree that Apple has done some greedy things in recent times, but
>they were not always like that. I think that Microsoft set the standards
>for corporate greed in the computer industry, now companies like Apple do
>the same kind of things to keep going strong. The value of a company is
>based on what Wall Street thinks of it, and Wall Street seams to love corporate
>greed!
>
>Apple is a corporation, and they are in the business to make money. I was
>surprised that they didn't do the Boot Camp thing in January. I have to
>think it was something they considered and were working on, I just don't
>think it was ready in time for MacWorld. It's still not ready for prime
>time, it's a beta.
>
>The thing that holds Apple back from really going for it is Microsoft Office,
>it is the world standard. That would be a hard one for Apple to take on.
> If Microsoft dropped support for the Mac version on MS Office, Apple would
>have some real headaches, and lose considerable business. So Apple is less
>likely to compete with Microsoft by making available a version of Mac OSX
>that will run on any PC hardware. Also a big part of Apples net profits
>come from their hardware sales. Those expensive Apple computers, keep Apple,
>a hardware company.
>
>If MS ever drops MS Office, Apple will put out a version of Mac OS that
will
>run on PC hardware.
>
>This deal with Boot Camp is a win win deal for both MS and Apple. The best
>part for the moment is, it doesn't cost a Mac user any more money to have
>this capability!
>
>James
>
>"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>>Sleaze is a relative thing. What offends me about Apple is that they are
>no
>>different than Microsoft.. They just try to make the public believe they
>>are. In reality, the corporate thinking is the same.....survival at all
>>costs. Nothing particularly wrong with this from a corporate standpoint.
>>It's what corporations do.
>>
>>"Tony Benson" <tony@standinghampton.com> wrote in message
>>news:44356490@linux...
>>> Apple's sleazy? Duh! No wonder I've always been so attracted to them!
>;>)
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>>
>>> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
>>> news:44355d39$1@linux...
>>> >I think what he's saying is that Apple is just as sleazy as they've
>>always
>>> > branded Microsoft to be......which is what I've been saying all along
>>> > anyway.
>>> >
>>> > ;o)
>>> >
>>> > "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> > news:44354eb1$1@linux...
>>> >>
>>> >> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Yeah, Smart! Apple gave the people what they wanted. I guess your
>>> > saying
>>> >> >that Apple are the thieves of the computer industry??? Well you
can
>>> > still
>>> >> >use the hacked version, apple said they wouldn't stop you.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >And for Apple's next trick,....running windows software under Mac
>OSX!
>>> >> >
>>> >> >James
>>> >>
>>> >> P.S. They maid it easy on the user! That's what Apple does!
>>> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>Well it's about time. Another crappy, proprietary OS to run on
>>> > expensive,
>>> >> >>shiny hardware. But here's the thing. The hacker community already
>>had
>>> >> this
>>> >> >>working
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>http://onmac.net/
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>for quite some time now. And Apple was sniffing around them with
>DMCA
>>> > threats
>>> >> >>being the good hearted slobs they are. Can you get source to Boot
>>Camp?
>>> >> >Can
>>> >> >>you read the filesystem from the other partition? I also wonder
if
>>> >> >>Apple
>>> >> >>hijacked some BSD licensed boot loader, but I digress.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>That said, and I can't believe I'm writing this, Apple has added
>NINE
>>> > BILLION
>>> >> >>DOLLARS of market cap since Monday close. When markets closed Monday
>>> >> >>you
>>> >> >>could go to the above website and downlaod a bootloader that would
>>let
>>> >> you
>>> >> >>run XP on a Mac. Or if you were a little smarter you could put Ubuntu
>>> >> >>on
>>> >> >>it. Then, on Tuesday, Apple announced that users could do what users
>>> > already
>>> >> >>could do. And thanks to that they are now worth another nine billion
>>> > dollars
>>> >> >>and are trading at THIRTY THREE TIMES earnings. The next person
who
>>> > tells
>>> >> >>me markets are efficient is getting a ball peen hammer to the temple.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>TCB
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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| Re: Apple says Ok, to running Windows XP on a Mac! [message #66329 is a reply to message #66318] |
Fri, 07 April 2006 19:25 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
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Senior Member |
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Hear hear now..I'm a Certified Lotus Domino Professional. Don't out IBM/Lotus..
Since I work in this field, I know for a fact that Lotus Domino is the defacto
standard groupware prodduct. With it's Websphere app. Things are looking
really good in Big Blue Land these days.. :)LaMont
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>Since both M$oft and Apple are publicly traded corporations they are actually
>legally and morally responsible for doing everything not illegal/immoral
>to make money for their shareholders. That can be done by paying dividends
>(M$oft finally was guilt tripped into doing that a while back) or by increasing
>their share price. By any standards Appple has been spectacular at the latter
>lately, adding over $9 billion in market cap this week by announcing that
>people could now do what they could already do. Apple has also been a rocket
>stock over the past few years, regularly running up in price, splitting,
>and then running up again. As someone who owns a little bit of each stock
>(via index ETFs, I shy away from individual tech companies), I hope M$oft
>comes out Monday and announces, similarly, that Windows now has a Start
button
>and their stock spikes up.
>
>Are they greedy? Well, to me corporate greed is buying diamonds from central
>Africa, exploiting bubbles in futures markets to price gouge for gasoline,
>and manipulating electricity grids to steal money from state utilities.
On
>that scale Apple and M$oft are pups. On the morality front my guess is that
>Apple is involved in more shady stuff simply because they are a hardware
>manufacturer and a fair amount of labor abuse and environmental damage is
>caused when computer parts are outsourced. But that's a luck of the draw
>thing for which they can't be held too responsible.
>
>But what's keeping Apple back is not M$oft office. OpenOffice.org works
splendidly
>on Macs and is so close to MSOffice that it's staggering price advantage
>(free) would remove any advantage the MS version has. I think there are
a
>few things holding Apple back. Price is a big one. A lack of an enterprise
>class server product is another, and before I hear about X-Serves I can
buy
>WAY cheaper hardware for a server and put BSD on it if I want mach stability
>or linux if I want microkernel performance. The REAL reason, though, that
>I think Apple is never going to be much more than a niche player is . .
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| Re: Apple says Ok, to running Windows XP on a Mac! [message #66333 is a reply to message #66242] |
Fri, 07 April 2006 21:53 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
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Senior Member |
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"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>Just to be clear, I say things at least as bad about M$oft as I do about
Apple.
>I find them wanting for specific reasons, but for the same general sins.
>They act like after I buy one of their products I have no rights. They presumptively
>treat my like a crimminal by using invasive DRM. They use file formats they
>won't disclose which makes me reliant on _them_ (in terms of survival and
>permission) for the future integrety if my data. I put up with both of them
>because I have no choice. But I'm not a Mac basher, or rather I bash other
>organizations with similar or greater ferocity.
>
>TCB
Well Apple has never treated me or any other Mac user I know like a criminal,
and I know a lot of Mac users! Apple doesn't really use DRM, that is a Microsoft
kind of scam. iTunes limits the number copies that you can create in iTunes,
but it is reasonable, I think it's 6 copies. I've been able to make many
CD copies of my music with out any problems. With Apple it's not a rental
situation, my music doesn't disappear the second I stop paying them, I own
it!
Any time any thing Apple is mentioned, you come out of the wood work to bash
Apple, I don't see you bashing Microsoft every time Microsoft is mentioned
on this NG. So I don't think its equal opportunity bashing. There quite
a few Mac users here, and there kind of passionate about there Macs; )
There is a reason why, and it's not because their stupid people that are
cowed by the evil Apple. There are many reasons we use Macs, one is we use
both and we know what works better. Another is, that it is the alternative
to the tyranny of Microsoft.
You talk about proprietary software, I love it when I go to a web site with
my PC or Mac, and the web site tells me I HAVE TO USE MICROSOFT INTERNET
EXPLORER! The worst piece of shit, out dated, unsecured browser out there.
All because my Bank or some other institution has a brain washed Microsoft
certified IT Asshole that doesn't know his butt from a Mac, or any thing
else! They insist you use MS IE, that is what I call proprietary, that's
what I call tyranny, that is what I call, unnecessarily putting me at risk
for ID theft, among many things! I use Microsoft products because, I have
to at times, because they are proprietary! That sucks!
You don't see a company like Apple trying to hijack a technology like JAVA
and turn it in to their own proprietary technology like Microsoft does.
Yet you guys Support the ultimate software Nazi, Bill (Adolf) Gates, and
you knock a pioneering company Apple and call them thief's! I don't hear
you bashing MS! what I see is, you hand your money to MS and bashing Macs
and Mac users!
You talk about free software. That's a great Idea, but nothing is free!
Not even OpenBSD is free, they need money to have their powwow. Apple is
in the business to make money. They put out a great product that cost money
to develop, and they charge a fair price. They don't charge extra for the
professional version! They add value by adding things like iLife software
and Boot Camp, with out extra charge. You pick on Apple for not supporting
the open source software, I don't see you bitching about Microsoft not supporting
open source software! Trust me when I say Microsoft has stolen more software
code then they have ever paid for! Yet nothing out of you on this! So where
are your morals on this issue?
I do think open source software initiatives should be supported. I use the
Mozilla softwares over the MS software on my PC. I think it's better. Many
people went to it because the real slobs at Microsoft left our butts hanging
in the breeze with IE, Entourage, and Outlook as far as security goes. Can
you say holes and patches??? Well their finally going to release a new version
of IE. I can't wait to see how many holes and damned bugs are in it!
ubuntu is a great idea, but it is NOT PRACTICAL! It is NOT ready for prime
time! The day I can go out and buy any audio or video card/interface, install
it and have it work, I will consider it. It does not work as good as what
I have right now. when it can do everything I need it to do, I'll use it
and support it. You, yourself Still use Windows because ubuntu can't do
it all. The other thing is, I don't need to ask or pay an IT Puke, as somebody
put it, to set up my machine. And that really is the the issue with IT
pukes, isn't it? Mac users do not need IT guys, and you know it. We can
maintain and network our machines with out you guys. Speaking of networking,
AppleTalk???, that is 1984 technology! That was developed in the infancy
of networking so anybody could network Macs quickly. Most Mac users don't
use AppleTalk anymore, and haven't for years, PLEASE!!!
The truth is, Mac users have never need IT guys, and that is the core of
Microsoft's scam. Microsoft intentionally made their software buggy and
complex, so you need an IT guy to debug and maintain your systems and networks.
That is a big part of where MS's revenue comes from, Training and certification.
This keeps you IT guys working! That is why you don't like Macs! Mac users
don't need IT guys, because Apple computers just work right out of the box.
The average Mac user can set up an office network in minutes, that actually
works. That is what Apple does, they make it easy on the end user. That
is one of the reasons why Apple computers cost more, because they have already
taken most of the work out of it, for the end user. There is no money in
that for you. I have to say with XP, PCs are getting there too, but they
are still not as easy and carefree to use as a Mac.
It is a known fact, that Microsoft for years has bribed colleges, university
and K-12 schools with free software and hardware! Dell has been doing the
same in resent years. Apple has lost a lot of education market to this unfair
business practice. A lot of the great educational software was developed
on the Mac O/S 9 and earlier Mac operating systems. That is why many teachers
don't want to let it go. It is easy for the schools to maintain those systems,
and they still work! By the way, if you work for a college, you WORK for
the academics as you put it, but I guess your so much smarter than them.
After all, what the hell would a bunch of stupid college professors know
about the tools they use to teach with, and use.
As far as Apple stock goes, a year and a half to two years ago, people here
were talking about how Motley Fools were saying Apple sucked. They were
saying, not to buy their stock, because the iPod would fizzle and Apple would
be out of business with in a year or so. I told people not to listen to
that bullshit. Just go look at what Apple stock did in the last two years!
Then tell me how Apple sucks and how Apple stock sucks! Figure out what
a 10K investment in Apple stock would have yielded, you'll want to kick yourself!
Here is a stock tip, stop listening to Motley Fools, and any other PC Zealots
about Apple computer! PC zealots that hate Apple have been trying to predict
the demise for more than fifteen years. They try to sway the market downwards
by spewing untruths and negative opinions about Apple's future and technologies,
but it never works in the end. Apple is kicking ass and taking names, and
will continue to do so because they are an innovative company, not a bunch
of thief's!
You may know how to set the network setting on a Mac, and you have written
some Cubase picture books which included Mac pictures, but I'm convinced
that you still don't know much about the current version of Mac OSX. So
I recommend, this coming July when the new Intel Mac Towers are released,
you lease one for a year, and use it everyday for a year for all your computing
needs. When you use a Mac everyday then you will be able to speak about
the Mac from the prospective of an actual Mac user. Then come back and give
us a report! With out doing this, your just a trolling Mac basher!
I jumped around a bit because I'm just catching up on the posts. I wasn't
looking for opinions, or bashing, I was just posting the info for the Mac
users and anybody else that was interested in this news. However, I thought
I would give mine, the above are my opinions!
James
>
>"gene lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>XP is in and running great. The entire process was very fast once I had
>an
>>appropriate XP install disk. I wont get around to trying any music programs
>>under XP till later or tomorrow.
>>
>>I never understood why non-Mac people react with such vigor when attacking
>>all things Apple. But I don’t care. Just leave me alone to spend my money
>>on tools I like. This box seems like it should appeal to just about everyone.
>>Its fast, sleek and runs both systems…No wonder so many people are quick
>>to attack it. Is there cheaper stuff… sure knock yourself out.
>>I love the logic that Apple is an unscrupulous company. This always seems
>>to imply that Microsoft is somehow better, or for that matter, how about
>>all the Labels we deal with or the corruption in radio etc, etc, etc.
>>
>>For the latest on the rotten underbelly of the music industry see:
>>http://www.fmqb.com/Article.asp?id=173928
>>
>>Back to the MacBook.
>>I took this self-portrait using the built in camera in my studio last night.
>>Macs are cool.
>>
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Apple says Ok, to running Windows XP on a Mac! [message #66335 is a reply to message #66242] |
Fri, 07 April 2006 22:16 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>Just to be clear, I say things at least as bad about M$oft as I do about
Apple.
>I find them wanting for specific reasons, but for the same general sins.
>They act like after I buy one of their products I have no rights. They presumptively
>treat my like a crimminal by using invasive DRM. They use file formats they
>won't disclose which makes me reliant on _them_ (in terms of survival and
>permission) for the future integrety if my data. I put up with both of them
>because I have no choice. But I'm not a Mac basher, or rather I bash other
>organizations with similar or greater ferocity.
>
>TCB
>
That's what I get for using MS Word, here it is again.
Well Apple has never treated me or any other Mac user I know like a criminal,
and I know a lot of Mac users! Apple doesn't really use DRM, that is a Microsoft
kind of scam. iTunes limits the number copies that you can create in iTunes,
but it is reasonable, I think it's 6 copies. I've been able to make many
CD copies of my music with out any problems. With Apple it's not a rental
situation, my music doesn't disappear the second I stop paying them, I own
it!
Any time any thing Apple is mentioned, you come out of the wood work to bash
Apple, I don't see you bashing Microsoft every time Microsoft is mentioned
on this NG. So I don't think its equal opportunity bashing. There quite
a few Mac users here, and there kind of passionate about there Macs; )
There is a reason why, and it's not because their stupid people that are
cowed by the evil Apple. There are many reasons we use Macs, one is we use
both and we know what works better. Another is, that it is the alternative
to the tyranny of Microsoft.
You talk about proprietary software, I love it when I go to a web site with
my PC or Mac, and the web site tells me I HAVE TO USE MICROSOFT INTERNET
EXPLORER! The worst piece of shit, out dated, unsecured browser out there.
All because my Bank or some other institution has a brain washed Microsoft
certified IT Asshole that doesn't know his butt from a Mac, or any thing
else! They insist you use MS IE, that is what I call proprietary, that's
what I call tyranny, that is what I call, unnecessarily putting me at risk
for ID theft, among many things! I use Microsoft products because, I have
to at times, because they are proprietary! That sucks!
You don't see a company like Apple trying to hijack a technology like JAVA
and turn it in to their own proprietary technology like Microsoft does.
Yet you guys Support the ultimate software Nazi, Bill (Adolf) Gates, and
you knock a pioneering company Apple and call them thieves! I don't hear
you bashing MS! what I see is, you hand your money to MS and bashing Macs
and Mac users!
You talk about free software. That's a great Idea, but nothing is free!
Not even OpenBSD is free, they need money to have their powwow. Apple is
in the business to make money. They put out a great product that cost money
to develop, and they charge a fair price. They don't charge extra for the
professional version! They add value by adding things like iLife software
and Boot Camp, with out extra charge. You pick on Apple for not supporting
the open source software, I don't see you bitching about Microsoft not supporting
open source software! Trust me when I say Microsoft has stolen more software
code then they have ever paid for! Yet nothing out of you on this! So where
are your morals on this issue?
I do think open source software initiatives should be supported. I use the
Mozilla softwares over the MS software on my PC. I think it's better. Many
people went to it because the real slobs at Microsoft left our butts hanging
in the breeze with IE, Entourage, and Outlook as far as security goes. Can
you say holes and patches??? Well their finally going to release a new version
of IE. I can't wait to see how many holes and damned bugs are in it!
ubuntu is a great idea, but it is NOT PRACTICAL! It is NOT ready for prime
time! The day I can go out and buy any audio or video card/interface, install
it and have it work, I will consider it. It does not work as good as what
I have right now. when it can do everything I need it to do, I'll use it
and support it. You, yourself Still use Windows because ubuntu can't do
it all. The other thing is, I don't need to ask or pay an IT Puke, as somebody
put it, to set up my machine. And that really is the the issue with IT
pukes, isn't it? Mac users do not need IT guys, and you know it. We can
maintain and network our machines with out you guys. Speaking of networking,
AppleTalk???, that is 1984 technology! That was developed in the infancy
of networking so anybody could network Macs quickly. Most Mac users don't
use AppleTalk anymore, and haven't for years, PLEASE!!!
The truth is, Mac users have never need IT guys, and that is the core of
Microsoft's scam. Microsoft intentionally made their software buggy and
complex, so you need an IT guy to debug and maintain your systems and networks.
That is a big part of where MS's revenue comes from, Training and certification.
This keeps you IT guys working! That is why you don't like Macs! Mac users
don't need IT guys, because Apple computers just work right out of the box.
The average Mac user can set up an office network in minutes, that actually
works. That is what Apple does, they make it easy on the end user. That
is one of the reasons why Apple computers cost more, because they have already
taken most of the work out of it, for the end user. There is no money in
that for you. I have to say with XP, PCs are getting there too, but they
are still not as easy and carefree to use as a Mac.
It is a known fact, that Microsoft for years has bribed colleges, university
and K-12 schools with free software and hardware! Dell has been doing the
same in resent years. Apple has lost a lot of education market to this unfair
business practice. A lot of the great educational software was developed
on the Mac O/S 9 and earlier Mac operating systems. That is why many teachers
don't want to let it go. It is easy for the schools to maintain those systems,
and they still work! By the way, if you work for a college, you WORK for
the academics as you put it, but I guess your so much smarter than them.
After all, what the hell would a bunch of stupid college professors know
about the tools they use to teach with, and use.
As far as Apple stock goes, a year and a half to two years ago, people here
were talking about how Motley Fools were saying Apple sucked. They were
saying, not to buy their stock, because the iPod would fizzle and Apple would
be out of business with in a year or so. I told people not to listen to
that bullshit. Just go look at what Apple stock did in the last two years!
Then tell me how Apple sucks and how Apple stock sucks! Figure out what
a 10K investment in Apple stock would have yielded, you'll want to kick yourself!
Here is a stock tip, stop listening to Motley Fools, and any other PC Zealots
about Apple computer! PC zealots that hate Apple have been trying to predict
the demise for more than fifteen years. They try to sway the market downwards
by spewing untruths and negative opinions about Apple's future and technologies,
but it never works in the end. Apple is kicking ass and taking names, and
will continue to do so because they are an innovative company, not a bunch
of thief's!
You may know how to set the network settings on a Mac, and you have written
some Cubase picture books which included Mac pictures, but I'm convinced
that you still don't know much about the current version of Mac OSX. So
I recommend, this coming July when the new Intel Mac Towers are released,
you lease one for a year, and use it everyday for a year for all your computing
needs. When you use a Mac everyday then you will be able to speak about
the Mac from the prospective of an actual Mac user. Then come back and give
us a report! With out doing this, your just a trolling Mac basher!
I jumped around a bit because I'm just catching up on the posts. I wasn't
looking for opinions, or bashing, I was just posting the info for the Mac
users and anybody else that was interested in this news. However, I thought
I would give mine, the above are my opinions!
James
>"gene lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>XP is in and running great. The entire process was very fast once I had
>an
>>appropriate XP install disk. I wont get around to trying any music programs
>>under XP till later or tomorrow.
>>
>>I never understood why non-Mac people react with such vigor when attacking
>>all things Apple. But I don’t care. Just leave me alone to spend my money
>>on tools I like. This box seems like it should appeal to just about everyone.
>>Its fast, sleek and runs both systems…No wonder so many people are quick
>>to attack it. Is there cheaper stuff… sure knock yourself out.
>>I love the logic that Apple is an unscrupulous company. This always seems
>>to imply that Microsoft is somehow better, or for that matter, how about
>>all the Labels we deal with or the corruption in radio etc, etc, etc.
>>
>>For the latest on the rotten underbelly of the music industry see:
>>http://www.fmqb.com/Article.asp?id=173928
>>
>>Back to the MacBook.
>>I took this self-portrait using the built in camera in my studio last night.
>>Macs are cool.
>>
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Apple says Ok, to running Windows XP on a Mac! [message #66407 is a reply to message #66329] |
Sun, 09 April 2006 17:25 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
And how. The _quality_ of the Lotus suite is spectacular, but the market share
is--you have to admit--small and shrinking. Even the Novell SUse/Evolution
suite is impressive technically, but I work in the finance world and nobody
uses any of these products. It's an Outlook world, we just have to live in
it.
TCB
"LaMont Davis" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>Hear hear now..I'm a Certified Lotus Domino Professional. Don't out IBM/Lotus..
>Since I work in this field, I know for a fact that Lotus Domino is the defacto
>standard groupware prodduct. With it's Websphere app. Things are looking
>really good in Big Blue Land these days.. :)LaMont
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>Since both M$oft and Apple are publicly traded corporations they are actually
>>legally and morally responsible for doing everything not illegal/immoral
>>to make money for their shareholders. That can be done by paying dividends
>>(M$oft finally was guilt tripped into doing that a while back) or by increasing
>>their share price. By any standards Appple has been spectacular at the
latter
>>lately, adding over $9 billion in market cap this week by announcing that
>>people could now do what they could already do. Apple has also been a rocket
>>stock over the past few years, regularly running up in price, splitting,
>>and then running up again. As someone who owns a little bit of each stock
>>(via index ETFs, I shy away from individual tech companies), I hope M$oft
>>comes out Monday and announces, similarly, that Windows now has a Start
>button
>>and their stock spikes up.
>>
>>Are they greedy? Well, to me corporate greed is buying diamonds from central
>>Africa, exploiting bubbles in futures markets to price gouge for gasoline,
>>and manipulating electricity grids to steal money from state utilities.
>On
>>that scale Apple and M$oft are pups. On the morality front my guess is
that
>>Apple is involved in more shady stuff simply because they are a hardware
>>manufacturer and a fair amount of labor abuse and environmental damage
is
>>caused when computer parts are outsourced. But that's a luck of the draw
>>thing for which they can't be held too responsible.
>>
>>But what's keeping Apple back is not M$oft office. OpenOffice.org works
>splendidly
>>on Macs and is so close to MSOffice that it's staggering price advantage
>>(free) would remove any advantage the MS version has. I think there are
>a
>>few things holding Apple back. Price is a big one. A lack of an enterprise
>>class server product is another, and before I hear about X-Serves I can
>buy
>>WAY cheaper hardware for a server and put BSD on it if I want mach stability
>>or linux if I want microkernel performance. The REAL reason, though, that
>>I think Apple is never going to be much more than a niche player is . .
|
|
|
|
| Re: Apple says Ok, to running Windows XP on a Mac! [message #66408 is a reply to message #66335] |
Sun, 09 April 2006 17:38 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I was actually going to respond to this until I read at the very end that
I wrote "picture books" about Cubase. Do you know how much work it takes
to write 90,000 words? To have three editors (none of whom has ever used
a professional audio app) to over every one of those words to be sure that
the most useful information is explained the best? Once you've made two such
"picture books" I'll be happy to converse about technology with you. Until
you've finished those "picture books" henceforth I'll not talk about platform
issues and you can bugger off.
TCB
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>Just to be clear, I say things at least as bad about M$oft as I do about
>Apple.
>>I find them wanting for specific reasons, but for the same general sins.
>>They act like after I buy one of their products I have no rights. They
presumptively
>>treat my like a crimminal by using invasive DRM. They use file formats
they
>>won't disclose which makes me reliant on _them_ (in terms of survival and
>>permission) for the future integrety if my data. I put up with both of
them
>>because I have no choice. But I'm not a Mac basher, or rather I bash other
>>organizations with similar or greater ferocity.
>>
>>TCB
>>
>
>That's what I get for using MS Word, here it is again.
>
>Well Apple has never treated me or any other Mac user I know like a criminal,
>and I know a lot of Mac users! Apple doesn't really use DRM, that is a
Microsoft
>kind of scam. iTunes limits the number copies that you can create in iTunes,
>but it is reasonable, I think it's 6 copies. I've been able to make many
>CD copies of my music with out any problems. With Apple it's not a rental
>situation, my music doesn't disappear the second I stop paying them, I own
>it!
>
>Any time any thing Apple is mentioned, you come out of the wood work to
bash
>Apple, I don't see you bashing Microsoft every time Microsoft is mentioned
>on this NG. So I don't think its equal opportunity bashing. There quite
>a few Mac users here, and there kind of passionate about there Macs; )
>There is a reason why, and it's not because their stupid people that are
>cowed by the evil Apple. There are many reasons we use Macs, one is we
use
>both and we know what works better. Another is, that it is the alternative
>to the tyranny of Microsoft.
>
>You talk about proprietary software, I love it when I go to a web site with
>my PC or Mac, and the web site tells me I HAVE TO USE MICROSOFT INTERNET
>EXPLORER! The worst piece of shit, out dated, unsecured browser out there.
> All because my Bank or some other institution has a brain washed Microsoft
>certified IT Asshole that doesn't know his butt from a Mac, or any thing
>else! They insist you use MS IE, that is what I call proprietary, that's
>what I call tyranny, that is what I call, unnecessarily putting me at risk
>for ID theft, among many things! I use Microsoft products because, I have
>to at times, because they are proprietary! That sucks!
>
>You don't see a company like Apple trying to hijack a technology like JAVA
>and turn it in to their own proprietary technology like Microsoft does.
>Yet you guys Support the ultimate software Nazi, Bill (Adolf) Gates, and
>you knock a pioneering company Apple and call them thieves! I don't hear
>you bashing MS! what I see is, you hand your money to MS and bashing Macs
>and Mac users!
>
>You talk about free software. That's a great Idea, but nothing is free!
> Not even OpenBSD is free, they need money to have their powwow. Apple
is
>in the business to make money. They put out a great product that cost money
>to develop, and they charge a fair price. They don't charge extra for the
>professional version! They add value by adding things like iLife software
>and Boot Camp, with out extra charge. You pick on Apple for not supporting
>the open source software, I don't see you bitching about Microsoft not supporting
>open source software! Trust me when I say Microsoft has stolen more software
>code then they have ever paid for! Yet nothing out of you on this! So
where
>are your morals on this issue?
>
>I do think open source software initiatives should be supported. I use
the
>Mozilla softwares over the MS software on my PC. I think it's better.
Many
>people went to it because the real slobs at Microsoft left our butts hanging
>in the breeze with IE, Entourage, and Outlook as far as security goes. Can
>you say holes and patches??? Well their finally going to release a new
version
>of IE. I can't wait to see how many holes and damned bugs are in it!
>
>ubuntu is a great idea, but it is NOT PRACTICAL! It is NOT ready for prime
>time! The day I can go out and buy any audio or video card/interface, install
>it and have it work, I will consider it. It does not work as good as what
>I have right now. when it can do everything I need it to do, I'll use it
>and support it. You, yourself Still use Windows because ubuntu can't do
>it all. The other thing is, I don't need to ask or pay an IT Puke, as somebody
>put it, to set up my machine. And that really is the the issue with IT
>pukes, isn't it? Mac users do not need IT guys, and you know it. We can
>maintain and network our machines with out you guys. Speaking of networking,
>AppleTalk???, that is 1984 technology! That was developed in the infancy
>of networking so anybody could network Macs quickly. Most Mac users don't
>use AppleTalk anymore, and haven't for years, PLEASE!!!
>
>
>The truth is, Mac users have never need IT guys, and that is the core of
>Microsoft's scam. Microsoft intentionally made their software buggy and
>complex, so you need an IT guy to debug and maintain your systems and networks.
> That is a big part of where MS's revenue comes from, Training and certification.
> This keeps you IT guys working! That is why you don't like Macs! Mac
users
>don't need IT guys, because Apple computers just work right out of the box.
> The average Mac user can set up an office network in minutes, that actually
>works. That is what Apple does, they make it easy on the end user. That
>is one of the reasons why Apple computers cost more, because they have already
>taken most of the work out of it, for the end user. There is no money in
>that for you. I have to say with XP, PCs are getting there too, but they
>are still not as easy and carefree to use as a Mac.
>
>It is a known fact, that Microsoft for years has bribed colleges, university
>and K-12 schools with free software and hardware! Dell has been doing the
>same in resent years. Apple has lost a lot of education market to this
unfair
>business practice. A lot of the great educational software was developed
>on the Mac O/S 9 and earlier Mac operating systems. That is why many teachers
>don't want to let it go. It is easy for the schools to maintain those systems,
>and they still work! By the way, if you work for a college, you WORK for
>the academics as you put it, but I guess your so much smarter than them.
> After all, what the hell would a bunch of stupid college professors know
>about the tools they use to teach with, and use.
>
>As far as Apple stock goes, a year and a half to two years ago, people here
>were talking about how Motley Fools were saying Apple sucked. They were
>saying, not to buy their stock, because the iPod would fizzle and Apple
would
>be out of business with in a year or so. I told people not to listen to
>that bullshit. Just go look at what Apple stock did in the last two years!
> Then tell me how Apple sucks and how Apple stock sucks! Figure out what
>a 10K investment in Apple stock would have yielded, you'll want to kick
yourself!
> Here is a stock tip, stop listening to Motley Fools, and any other PC Zealots
>about Apple computer! PC zealots that hate Apple have been trying to predict
>the demise for more than fifteen years. They try to sway the market downwards
>by spewing untruths and negative opinions about Apple's future and technologies,
>but it never works in the end. Apple is kicking ass and taking names, and
>will continue to do so because they are an innovative company, not a bunch
>of thief's!
>
>You may know how to set the network settings on a Mac, and you have written
>some Cubase picture books which included Mac pictures, but I'm convinced
>that you still don't know much about the current version of Mac OSX. So
>I recommend, this coming July when the new Intel Mac Towers are released,
>you lease one for a year, and use it everyday for a year for all your computing
>needs. When you use a Mac everyday then you will be able to speak about
>the Mac from the prospective of an actual Mac user. Then come back and
give
>us a report! With out doing this, your just a trolling Mac basher!
>
>
>I jumped around a bit because I'm just catching up on the posts. I wasn't
>looking for opinions, or bashing, I was just posting the info for the Mac
>users and anybody else that was interested in this news. However, I thought
>I would give mine, the above are my opinions!
>
>James
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>"gene lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>XP is in and running great. The entire process was very fast once I had
>>an
>>>appropriate XP install disk. I wont get around to trying any music programs
>>>under XP till later or tomorrow.
>>>
>>>I never understood why non-Mac people react with such vigor when attacking
>>>all things Apple. But I don’t care. Just leave me alone to spend my money
>>>on tools I like. This box seems like it should appeal to just about everyone.
>>>Its fast, sleek and runs both systems…No wonder so many people are quick
>>>to attack it. Is there cheaper stuff… sure knock yourself out.
>>>I love the logic that Apple is an unscrupulous company. This always seems
>>>to imply that Microsoft is somehow better, or for that matter, how about
>>>all the Labels we deal with or the corruption in radio etc, etc, etc.
>>>
>>>For the latest on the rotten underbelly of the music industry see:
>>>http://www.fmqb.com/Article.asp?id=173928
>>>
>>>Back to the MacBook.
>>>I took this self-portrait using the built in camera in my studio last
night.
>>>Macs are cool.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
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