Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » To add fuel to the fire
| Re: To add fuel to the fire [message #78373 is a reply to message #78363] |
Sun, 14 January 2007 19:48   |
Nappy
Messages: 198
Registered: September 2006
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Senior Member |
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DJ,
I know a web cam does'nt do audio. I'm a bit dissapointed in you.
I'm not trying to make the point that the Mac is a better computer,I'm just
pointing out some things that the Macbook has that the Dell does'nt.
Really my response is to Thad being the PC opposite of James. You seem to
forget all his talk of Debian which has nothing to do with audio. I could
care less
which laptop you use as long as you are happy with it. Sure you can build
a PC
Core duo 2 box for cheaper than a Mac,but you can't run OSX on it. If your
mad
that Steve Jobs wont let you run OSX on a PC thats another story. All I'm
saying is If you put all
that hatred for Steve Jobs a side you should see that owning a Mac is not
a bad idea
seeing you have all the software available to you and switching would be
painless
since you would not have to buy all new software. You could run Wavelab if
you want as well as LOgic on the same box,what is so wrong about that?
You see,Thad has still not address the desktop Mac which have 2 Duel core
Xeon
prosessors for $2499,try building one of them for cheaper,ask Chris Ludwig
if he can build one with the same specs for cheaper. I like Macs because
like it
or not they have software that I use that only runs on a Mac and I can run
any
software that runs on XP on it as well and from were i sit thats makes good
sense to me. Now if they come out with a PC version of Aperture and Logic
then I'll get
a PC. Sure I'd like to run OSX on a PC,but hating Steve Jobs is not going
to stop me
from using the software I want. Remember the old saying,"Find the software
you want to use and pick the platform that supports it" The Mac supports
both
platforms.
respect
Nappy
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>How many tracks can that webcam record and play back?
>
>"Nappy" <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote in message news:45aa864c$1@linux...
>>
>> And a web cam built in it.
>>
>> "Nappy" <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>The Macbooks have core duo 2 cpu's,try again.
>>>
>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us& cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=bndwe4j&s=bsd
>>>>
>>>>Core Duo laptop, 15.4" screen, DVD burner, 1 GB memory. $750
>>>>
>>>>There are better deals on occasion but this is the current sweet spot.
>> I
>>>>set up two of them last week.
>>>>
>>>>TCB
>>>>
>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>Hey Thad! I was checking Dell's prices, I didn't see any Core 2 Duo
lap
>>>>tops
>>>>>for $750.00. I could be wrong, but it looks like they start at $1299.
>>>
>>>>I
>>>>>wonder what they would cost similarly configured?
>>>>>
>>>>>I think Apple typically makes more margin per unit, well that's what
>>>>>I've
>>>>>read. As a dealer margins were always tight. In the past Apple
>>>>>manufactured
>>>>>proprietary hardware, and they just didn't sell the number of units
that
>>>>>PC manufactures did to have low prices. With Intel, it's a whole new
>> ball
>>>>>game for Apple. I would think Dell still buys 10 times as much stuff
>> from
>>>>>Intel as Apple does. Dell probably gets better pricing.
>>>>>
>>>>>I have seen Dell do a thousand dollar rebate on their lap tops. When
>> that
>>>>>happens, Apple will not be able to compete.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/notebooks ?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
>>>>>
>>>>>James
>>>>>
>>>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>That's right, Jamie, I finally noticed that Apple is using Intel
>>>>>>processors.
>>>>>>You know me, never up on much in that wild and crazy world of tech.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>My point, which I stated fairly clearly, was that I have often heard
>> the
>>>>>>argument made that the reason Apple hardware is pricier than an
>>>>>>equivalent
>>>>>>Dell or home build is because they use superior components in their
>>>>>>machines.
>>>>>>That's nonsense. Having seen their 'low end' laptop which runs about
>> $1300
>>>>>>I can say for sure that aside from the slot loading optical drive and
>>>a
>>>>>nice
>>>>>>black case it's a slight downgrade from a $750 Dell. If the optical
>>>>>>drive
>>>>>>and case are worth 45% more to you, than that's fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>BTW - Debian Etch is relatively easy get working on these. If I had
>>>>>>more
>>>>>>money than sense I'd get one as a Debian machine because it's black.
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>TCB
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Where's the fuel? You mean you finally noticed that Apple has gone
to
>>>>
>>>>>>>Intel for hardware designs, and onboard graphics on the low end
>>>>>>>models?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This is pretty old news. When Apple announced the Intel switch more
>> than
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>a year ago, this was one of the reasons given. The Macbook is their
>> low
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>end laptop, and probably the biggest cost reduction was using the
>>>>>>>onboard graphics instead of something snazzier. The Macbook Pro has
>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>snazzier stuff, but it's still off the shelf with OSX drivers. Apple
>>>
>>>>>>>doesn't and hasn't ever AFAIK developed their own graphics chipsets.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Well heck, they don't develop their own CPUs either, although I
>>>>>>>imagine
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>they give input to those companies. Up until last year Apple chose
>>>>>>>different CPU models than were blessed by Microsoft, and tried to
gain
>>>>>
>>>>>>>an advantage from the differences. Now they are using the same CPUs
>> that
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Microsoft likes, so any advantage is going to be from design and
>>>>>>>software.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I like Apple's desktop case design. Really easy to get into and change
>>>>>
>>>>>>>memory, drives, etc.; quiet and cool running airflow. The laptop
>>>>>>>designs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>have varied at accessibility, sometimes compromising for thinness.
For
>>>>>
>>>>>>>example my PowerBook is easy to access for memory upgrades but not
for
>>>>>
>>>>>>>HD upgrades. That may have changed in the new ones.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Mac laptop sales are rising, other manufacturers are copying their
>>>>>>>form
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>factor, but if you ever buy one (other than overpaying for a Macbook
>>>for
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>someone else, and then complaining about it) I'll be amazed. Sorry
you
>>>>>
>>>>>>>had to subject yourself to working on a Mac today, but even sorrier
>> you
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>had to infect it with XP. ;^)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>TCB wrote:
>>>>>>>> So, I had to set up XP on a Mac Book today. The child of an
>>>>>>>> important
>>>>>>person
>>>>>>>> on my office had one and, surprise, most of the games a 12 year
old
>>>>likes
>>>>>>>> to play don't have Mac versions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, once and for all I can put to rest the notion that Apple
>>>>>>>> hardware
>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>> somehow 'super special' and thus justifies the higher price. Intel
>>>chipset,
>>>>>>>> Intel integrated graphics, Atheros wireless, Marvell NIC, generic
>> firewire
>>>>>>>> controller. The CD/DVD burner was the slot loading kind, so that's
>>>slightly
>>>>>>>> cool (unless you want to pop out the CD before the machine boots
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>it's
>>>>>>>> nice to have a physical switch), but that's about the only thing
>>>>>>>> unusual
>>>>>>>> about the hardware. If you were to show me the XP device list for
>> a
>>>>Mac
>>>>>>Book
>>>>>>>> and the same list from a Dell 640m (two of which I've also set up
>> recently)
>>>>>>>> I would have given a _slight_ preference to the Dell, mostly because
>>>>>it
>>>>>>uses
>>>>>>>> an Intel wireless chipset that does b/g/n and bluetooth on one chip,
>>>>>and
>>>>>>>> I've had very good luck with those wireless cards. A 640m also has
>>>a
>>>>>larger
>>>>>>>> screed and costs around $750.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In better news, I wound up on modular synth dreamland for about
five
>>>>>hours
>>>>>>>> last night, wiring up my John Bowen Pro Wave into modular patches
>> and
>>>>>>using
>>>>>>>> it to feed vocoders and all of the things that make computer
>>>>>>>> recording
>>>>>>worth
>>>>>>>> it. Then I forgot to save the presets, but hey, that's the way it
>> goes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> TCB
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: To add fuel to the fire [message #78374 is a reply to message #78373] |
Sun, 14 January 2007 19:32 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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On 1/14/07 8:48 PM, in article 45aaeb8d$1@linux, "Nappy"
<mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
> You see,Thad has still not address the desktop Mac which have 2 Duel core
> Xeon
> prosessors for $2499,try building one of them for cheaper,ask Chris Ludwig
>
> if he can build one with the same specs for cheaper. I like Macs because
Hey Nappy -
From Newegg.com,
dual 2.66 Xeon
Gigabyte server motherboard,
1G Corsair DDR2 Ram (2x512),
250G Western Digital SATA 3G drive
NVidia GeForce 7300 256M card
Sony DVD/CD combo drive (+/- DVDR), 16x
Antec power supply
Coolermaster case
Windows XP Pro SP2 with free upgrade to Vista:
$2356 shipped.
Not sure what motherboard or drives Apple uses - I think our last Mac
used Samsung. Memory and DVD/CD drive - also not sure. So I may have spent
more than necessary on this example. Apple also probably gets a bulk rate
on cpus so that can save a little over paying $700 each as an individual
buyer.
fwiw....
Regards,
Dedric
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| Re: To add fuel to the fire [message #78375 is a reply to message #78356] |
Sun, 14 January 2007 20:53 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
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Senior Member |
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Ha.. You wish.. I'd be the first to order that "new" version of Logic PC..BUT!!,
Only if it's a Complete Re-write that has :
-Sample accurate editing..
-Super fast audio editing..
-Killer Mixing graphics.
-tempo conforming incoming audio(Acid. apple loops)
-Hide the enviorments
-Hide any look of the old tired Logic Audio look..
-Put back VST (still faster than audio units)
:)
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Ah, we were talking about lap tops!
>
>I think your going to see some great desk tops come from Apple in the next
>few months, I wouldn't count them out just yet!
>
>Since you are talking about audio, I will speculate here a bit and say,
I
>think you may see PC software developers write more programs for the Intel
>Macs. Maybe even your favorite programs! Adobe made announcements at MacWorld,
>I wonder what NAMM, Music Messa, and NAB will bring. I wonder if there
will
>be a Logic version for PC??? LaMont will still hate it no matter what;
>) LOL!
>
>James
>
>
>Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>On 1/14/07 1:38 PM, in article 45aa86a2$1@linux, "Nappy"
>><mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Oh ya,did I mention,it runs both OSX and XP
>>>
>>>
>>Which since they are the same hardware, begs the question as to why any
>core
>>2 duo computer can't run OSX. Oh, that's right, Steve J. won't let us.
>:-)
>>
>>So...what's the more flexible, cost effective, scalable hardware? ;-)
>>This is all in good fun, btw. Just for sake of conversation more than
>>anything....
>>
>>Serious Q: Can you buy a Mac core 2 duo that is compatible with a quad
core
>>cpu? I am doubting it since there are only a few motherboards that support
>>both currently, and I believe the current core 2 duo Macs were designed
>>before quads really hit the market, but I am curious if anyone knows.
>>
>>The kicker on this one for me is that I can build a core 2 duo PC today
>for
>>less than, or about the same cost of the same core 2 duo cpu Mac but with
>>more PCI/PCIe slots, more Sata ports, higher buss speed, more RAM, dual
>DVI,
>>wireless bluetooth, *and* be able to upgrade to a quad core cpu by simply
>>dropping one in whenever I want. (That's what I'll be putting together
>in
>>the next month - it's already spec'd out and ready to order). That's a
>>significant consideration for me (and yes, I've been through Apple and
>>Dell's custom configurators, as well as a few others - I still come out
>>better doing my own from Newegg).
>>
>>That's a much better investment for me at least. The OS is secondary for
>me
>>to a large degree - just a means to an end that depends more on hardware
>>than the OS. Now if I could buy OSX standalone, I could have an AppleggPC
>>running WindowsOSX. I would also mix logos and make a fruit salad. ;-)
>>I had considered a Mac this time around, or maybe later this year, but
so
>>far the above advantage is still outweighing the convenience of a plug
it
>in
>>and turn it on solution.
>>
>>I think that's where a lot of audio PC users are (not average users, but
>>power/tech savvy users). It isn't so much about "us against them" as
>>different requirements and decision making approaches - some want to turn
>on
>>the switch and not think about it; others want to get a fast system and
>>hotrod it even more, and the time is paid for in the gains made in workflow
>>later.
>>
>>My personal decision making process is simply one of numbers and my own
>>application - if it makes more sense (power, speed, cost, upgradeability,
>>software support without crossgrade costs), then a Mac is fine. So far,
>>that cost has been noticeably higher than staying with a PC. I don't care
>>which anyone chooses, as long as you see both sides equally.
>>
>>My main reason for entering this thread is to balance what James said about
>>PC users - that the conversations turn into bashing Macs, but I see it
both
>>ways. Mac users are also pretty adamant about Macs being an overall better
>>choice. My other reason...okay, it's kind of fun in a twisted sort of
way.
>>;-) It's fun to talk geek/tech with other pro audio folks from time to
>>time. Nice diversion from actually getting work done with these beasts.
>:-)
>>
>>Regards,
>>Dedric
>>
>
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| Re: To add fuel to the fire [message #78376 is a reply to message #78374] |
Sun, 14 January 2007 20:57 |
Nappy
Messages: 198
Registered: September 2006
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Senior Member |
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Dedric,
If you add all the software that comes with it and the elegant design plus
the fact that you can run both OSX and XP and you don't have to build it
makes
up for the 90 plus dollars you save. I'm just saying it makes sense for a
Pro to buy.
You can do what you want,but you can't deny that its a good value. I'm not
a die
hard Mac person,in fact I'm going to build a PC to run PARIS on,it makes
more sense.
PC motherboards still offer PCI slots,and buying an old Mac that boots to
OS9 is a step backwards. All I'm saying is don't let your feelings about
Steve Jobs stop you from making a move to a Mac if it gives you more options.
Lets face it,Thad and James represent two extremes of opinions,I'm talking
about options as far as
software goes,yes hardware wise PC's have more options,but as was already
stated
they both have the same or some of the same hardware so I give the Mac the
advantage to Mac for software options. Thats My point.
Is saving 90 plus dollars worth it?
respect
Nappy
PS please respond
Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>On 1/14/07 8:48 PM, in article 45aaeb8d$1@linux, "Nappy"
><mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>> You see,Thad has still not address the desktop Mac which have 2 Duel core
>> Xeon
>> prosessors for $2499,try building one of them for cheaper,ask Chris Ludwig
>>
>> if he can build one with the same specs for cheaper. I like Macs because
>
>
>Hey Nappy -
>
>From Newegg.com,
>dual 2.66 Xeon
>Gigabyte server motherboard,
>1G Corsair DDR2 Ram (2x512),
>250G Western Digital SATA 3G drive
>NVidia GeForce 7300 256M card
>Sony DVD/CD combo drive (+/- DVDR), 16x
>Antec power supply
>Coolermaster case
>Windows XP Pro SP2 with free upgrade to Vista:
>
>$2356 shipped.
>
>Not sure what motherboard or drives Apple uses - I think our last Mac
>used Samsung. Memory and DVD/CD drive - also not sure. So I may have spent
>more than necessary on this example. Apple also probably gets a bulk rate
>on cpus so that can save a little over paying $700 each as an individual
>buyer.
>
>fwiw....
>
>Regards,
>Dedric
>
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| Re: To add fuel to the fire [message #78378 is a reply to message #78373] |
Sun, 14 January 2007 20:17 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
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Senior Member |
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Nappy. I forgot to put a smiley after my post. I was definitely kiddin'
around. Despite my misgivings about Mr. Jobs, I'm seeing some upside to Macs
these days. Old habits die hard though and IMHO, Jobs and Gates are cut from
the same cloth. I guess that's what irks me the most about Mac....the
"pseudo high road" mentality. they are both boxes full of componentry with
OS'es that appeal to certain folks, as you said.
Regards,
;o)
"Nappy" <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote in message news:45aaeb8d$1@linux...
>
> DJ,
> I know a web cam does'nt do audio. I'm a bit dissapointed in you.
> I'm not trying to make the point that the Mac is a better computer,I'm
> just
> pointing out some things that the Macbook has that the Dell does'nt.
> Really my response is to Thad being the PC opposite of James. You seem to
> forget all his talk of Debian which has nothing to do with audio. I could
> care less
> which laptop you use as long as you are happy with it. Sure you can build
> a PC
> Core duo 2 box for cheaper than a Mac,but you can't run OSX on it. If your
> mad
> that Steve Jobs wont let you run OSX on a PC thats another story. All I'm
> saying is If you put all
> that hatred for Steve Jobs a side you should see that owning a Mac is not
> a bad idea
> seeing you have all the software available to you and switching would be
> painless
> since you would not have to buy all new software. You could run Wavelab if
> you want as well as LOgic on the same box,what is so wrong about that?
>
> You see,Thad has still not address the desktop Mac which have 2 Duel core
> Xeon
> prosessors for $2499,try building one of them for cheaper,ask Chris Ludwig
>
> if he can build one with the same specs for cheaper. I like Macs because
> like it
> or not they have software that I use that only runs on a Mac and I can run
> any
> software that runs on XP on it as well and from were i sit thats makes
> good
> sense to me. Now if they come out with a PC version of Aperture and Logic
> then I'll get
> a PC. Sure I'd like to run OSX on a PC,but hating Steve Jobs is not going
> to stop me
> from using the software I want. Remember the old saying,"Find the software
> you want to use and pick the platform that supports it" The Mac supports
> both
> platforms.
>
> respect
> Nappy
>
> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>How many tracks can that webcam record and play back?
>>
>>"Nappy" <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote in message news:45aa864c$1@linux...
>>>
>>> And a web cam built in it.
>>>
>>> "Nappy" <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>The Macbooks have core duo 2 cpu's,try again.
>>>>
>>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us& cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=bndwe4j&s=bsd
>>>>>
>>>>>Core Duo laptop, 15.4" screen, DVD burner, 1 GB memory. $750
>>>>>
>>>>>There are better deals on occasion but this is the current sweet spot.
>>> I
>>>>>set up two of them last week.
>>>>>
>>>>>TCB
>>>>>
>>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hey Thad! I was checking Dell's prices, I didn't see any Core 2 Duo
> lap
>>>>>tops
>>>>>>for $750.00. I could be wrong, but it looks like they start at $1299.
>>>>
>>>>>I
>>>>>>wonder what they would cost similarly configured?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I think Apple typically makes more margin per unit, well that's what
>
>>>>>>I've
>>>>>>read. As a dealer margins were always tight. In the past Apple
>>>>>>manufactured
>>>>>>proprietary hardware, and they just didn't sell the number of units
> that
>>>>>>PC manufactures did to have low prices. With Intel, it's a whole new
>>> ball
>>>>>>game for Apple. I would think Dell still buys 10 times as much stuff
>>> from
>>>>>>Intel as Apple does. Dell probably gets better pricing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have seen Dell do a thousand dollar rebate on their lap tops. When
>>> that
>>>>>>happens, Apple will not be able to compete.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/notebooks ?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>James
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That's right, Jamie, I finally noticed that Apple is using Intel
>>>>>>>processors.
>>>>>>>You know me, never up on much in that wild and crazy world of tech.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>My point, which I stated fairly clearly, was that I have often heard
>>> the
>>>>>>>argument made that the reason Apple hardware is pricier than an
>>>>>>>equivalent
>>>>>>>Dell or home build is because they use superior components in their
>
>>>>>>>machines.
>>>>>>>That's nonsense. Having seen their 'low end' laptop which runs about
>>> $1300
>>>>>>>I can say for sure that aside from the slot loading optical drive and
>>>>a
>>>>>>nice
>>>>>>>black case it's a slight downgrade from a $750 Dell. If the optical
>
>>>>>>>drive
>>>>>>>and case are worth 45% more to you, than that's fine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>BTW - Debian Etch is relatively easy get working on these. If I had
>
>>>>>>>more
>>>>>>>money than sense I'd get one as a Debian machine because it's black.
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>TCB
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Where's the fuel? You mean you finally noticed that Apple has gone
> to
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Intel for hardware designs, and onboard graphics on the low end
>>>>>>>>models?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>This is pretty old news. When Apple announced the Intel switch more
>>> than
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>a year ago, this was one of the reasons given. The Macbook is their
>>> low
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>end laptop, and probably the biggest cost reduction was using the
>>>>>>>>onboard graphics instead of something snazzier. The Macbook Pro has
>>> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>snazzier stuff, but it's still off the shelf with OSX drivers. Apple
>>>>
>>>>>>>>doesn't and hasn't ever AFAIK developed their own graphics chipsets.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Well heck, they don't develop their own CPUs either, although I
>>>>>>>>imagine
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>they give input to those companies. Up until last year Apple chose
>>>>>>>>different CPU models than were blessed by Microsoft, and tried to
> gain
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>an advantage from the differences. Now they are using the same CPUs
>>> that
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Microsoft likes, so any advantage is going to be from design and
>>>>>>>>software.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I like Apple's desktop case design. Really easy to get into and
>>>>>>>>change
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>memory, drives, etc.; quiet and cool running airflow. The laptop
>>>>>>>>designs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>have varied at accessibility, sometimes compromising for thinness.
> For
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>example my PowerBook is easy to access for memory upgrades but not
> for
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>HD upgrades. That may have changed in the new ones.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Mac laptop sales are rising, other manufacturers are copying their
>
>>>>>>>>form
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>factor, but if you ever buy one (other than overpaying for a Macbook
>>>>for
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>someone else, and then complaining about it) I'll be amazed. Sorry
> you
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>had to subject yourself to working on a Mac today, but even sorrier
>>> you
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>had to infect it with XP. ;^)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>TCB wrote:
>>>>>>>>> So, I had to set up XP on a Mac Book today. The child of an
>>>>>>>>> important
>>>>>>>person
>>>>>>>>> on my office had one and, surprise, most of the games a 12 year
> old
>>>>>likes
>>>>>>>>> to play don't have Mac versions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, once and for all I can put to rest the notion that Apple
>>>>>>>>> hardware
>>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>>> somehow 'super special' and thus justifies the higher price. Intel
>>>>chipset,
>>>>>>>>> Intel integrated graphics, Atheros wireless, Marvell NIC, generic
>>> firewire
>>>>>>>>> controller. The CD/DVD burner was the slot loading kind, so that's
>>>>slightly
>>>>>>>>> cool (unless you want to pop out the CD before the machine boots
>
>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>it's
>>>>>>>>> nice to have a physical switch), but that's about the only thing
>
>>>>>>>>> unusual
>>>>>>>>> about the hardware. If you were to show me the XP device list for
>>> a
>>>>>Mac
>>>>>>>Book
>>>>>>>>> and the same list from a Dell 640m (two of which I've also set up
>>> recently)
>>>>>>>>> I would have given a _slight_ preference to the Dell, mostly
>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>uses
>>>>>>>>> an Intel wireless chipset that does b/g/n and bluetooth on one
>>>>>>>>> chip,
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>> I've had very good luck with those wireless cards. A 640m also has
>>>>a
>>>>>>larger
>>>>>>>>> screed and costs around $750.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In better news, I wound up on modular synth dreamland for about
> five
>>>>>>hours
>>>>>>>>> last night, wiring up my John Bowen Pro Wave into modular patches
>>> and
>>>>>>>using
>>>>>>>>> it to feed vocoders and all of the things that make computer
>>>>>>>>> recording
>>>>>>>worth
>>>>>>>>> it. Then I forgot to save the presets, but hey, that's the way it
>>> goes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> TCB
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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| Re: To add fuel to the fire [message #78379 is a reply to message #78369] |
Sun, 14 January 2007 20:20 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
hmmmm...........can you just stop them from running in the background and
then reenable them like the Administrative Tools options in windows?
Thanks,
Dej
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:45aacfdd$1@linux...
>
> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>So how do I get rid of 90% of the bloat that is advertized as being
>>loaded
>
>>on the Mac? Is that as simple as everything else it does?
>>
>>;o)
>
> System stuff you can strip out but I would do some reading first.
> Language
> libraries would be first on my list. Programs, just drag them to the
> trash
> and flush the toilet. It's easy!
>
> James
>
>
>>
>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:45aacb64$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Heh. True, and good thing too. Don't forget to keep track of your costs
>>>
>>>>in all this, so next time we discuss which platform is actually
>>>>"cheaper" we remember to take into account all these systems you keep
>>>>building. :^)
>>>>
>>>>Cheers,
>>>> -Jamie
>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> Soon it will be Vista surgery time, ouch! ; )
>>>
>>> http://www.apple.com/getamac/
>>>
>>> ...and it goes on, and on!
>>>
>>>>
>>>>DJ wrote:
>>>>> I'm building a new one right now with an AMD 64 4800 x 2 CPU that's
>
>>>>> going
>>> to
>>>>> have 3 x EDS cards in it pretty soon. I've had some "issues" with it
>
>>>>> though.
>>>
>>>>> Strange stuff, but I'm getting there. this is one of the coolest
>>>>> mobo's
>>> I've
>>>>> ever seen as far as being able to assign IRQ's to individual PCI
>>>>> slots,
>>> but,
>>>>> of course, like Paris, it's a discontinued model and rarer'n hen's
>>>>> teeth.
>>> Of
>>>>> course, being a Mac guy instead of a normal person, you don't get to
>
>>>>> rejoice
>>>
>>>>> in the ability to assign IRQs.
>>>>>
>>>>> ;o)
>>>>>
>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:45aa8362@linux...
>>>>>> Don't get a Mac Deej. If we don't hear at least one story every month
>>>
>>>>>> about an amazing cobbled together Deej DAW contraption, we will die.
>>> ;^)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>>>> I really thought hard about jumping into this, especially since I
>
>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>
>>>>>>> accused of hating Macs, but it's worse than arguing politics.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> :O)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:C1CFB853.6939%dterry@keyofd.net...
>>>>>>>> On 1/14/07 9:53 AM, in article 45aa5d12@linux, "Jamie K"
>>>>>>>> <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You're right Dedric, they're all computers. They have always used
>>>>>>>>> similar components and people argued about the differences. Now
> that
>>>>>>>>> they use pretty much the same components, there's still room to
>
>>>>>>>>> discuss
>>>>>>>>> what differences remain.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The difference between OSX and, say, Vista, is more than the look
>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> GUI and logos. While there are strong similarities, different
>>>>>>>>> philosophies and implementations create different user
>>>>>>>>> experiences.
>>> How
>>>>>>>>> much of that difference matters to you will influence your desire
>>> to
>>>>>>>>> waste time on these threads. :^)
>>>>>>>> Of course - I was just giving you guys a hard time because you
>>>>>>>> seemed
>>> to
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> arguing the same point from different perspectives. It's always
> best
>>> to
>>>>>>>> evaluate tech gear for what it is rather than how it is marketed.
>>>>>>>>> But if you just want to get down the hill and don't see much
>>>>>>>>> difference
>>>>>>>>> in how you get there, a snowboard is as good as skis. No real
>>>>>>>>> difference...
>>>>>>>> Skis are better :-) ...and it's important to enjoy the whole
>>>>>>>> mountain,
>>>
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> just the groomed runs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BTW - iPhone is very cool. I don't have a new PDA, or cutting edge
>>>
>>>>>>>> phone,
>>>>>>>> so maybe there are other options too, but the touch screen and
>>>>>>>> orientation
>>>>>>>> detection rock. Too expensive for now though. If they come down,
>>> I
>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>> consider getting one if it isn't too bulky for a phone.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dedric Terry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/13/07 6:48 PM, in article 45a988e7@linux, "Jamie K"
>>>>>>>>>> <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> TCB wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> That's right, Jamie, I finally noticed that Apple is using
>>>>>>>>>>>> Intel
>>>>>>>>>>>> processors.
>>>>>>>>>>>> You know me, never up on much in that wild and crazy world of
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> tech.
>>>>>>>>>>> Guess not, for Apple anyway. This is old news. Processors,
>>>>>>>>>>> onboard
>>>>>>>>>>> graphics chipsets on the low end, and, heck, doesn't Intel do
> the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> entire
>>>>>>>>>>> motherboard now? So now, what were you complaining about?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Pardon me dropping in uninvited.... but...umm... what exactly are
>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> guys
>>>>>>>>>> arguing about? ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> An Intel cpu is an Intel cpu. Don't know what motherboards the
> new
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Macs
>>>>>>>>>> use, but undoubtedly they are also available on Newegg or
>>>>>>>>>> TigerDirect
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> for a
>>>>>>>>>> PC - the same goes for every other part, other than the case and
>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> OS.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Motorola boards were made for Apple (probably exclusively)
>>>>>>>>>> because,
>>>>>>>>>> well, no one else used Motorola cpus for a PC (mostly for other
>>>>>>>>>> hardware
>>>>>>>>>> devices). I learned assembly language on 808x and 68k processors
>>> -
>>>>>>>>>> Intel
>>>>>>>>>> and Motorola. Both do much the same thing, but with a different
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> framework -
>>>>>>>>>> 68k's were a little better suited for graphics, but not so much
> for
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> math -
>>>>>>>>>> vice versa for the Intels, though the differences were more in
> the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> structure
>>>>>>>>>> and form of the instruction set, rather than actual functions -
>
>>>>>>>>>> that's
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> main difference the later versions inherited. The problem with
>
>>>>>>>>>> Moto
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> is they
>>>>>>>>>> couldn't get their clock speeds down with their design - it was
> a
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> limited
>>>>>>>>>> design there. I think it is smart of Apple to finally ditch them
>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> go for
>>>>>>>>>> Intel (or AMD as was considered for a while I believe).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Motherboard manufacturers just make boards to run whatever cpu
> is
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> selling
>>>>>>>>>> enough to warrant making a board for it, so now you could
>>>>>>>>>> probably
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> drop most
>>>>>>>>>> any core 2 duo compatible mobo in a Mac and it should run, unless
>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> OS is
>>>>>>>>>> setup to lock out all but spec'd boards, or tolerances with other
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> parts are
>>>>>>>>>> too low.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> With comps today, when it comes down to it, the only real
>>>>>>>>>> difference
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> is what
>>>>>>>>>> the GUI and the logos look like.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The rest is no more of a variation on a theme than you get going
>>> from
>>>>>>>>>> Borders to Barnes & Noble.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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| Re: To add fuel to the fire [message #78381 is a reply to message #78378] |
Sun, 14 January 2007 21:14 |
Nappy
Messages: 198
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I agree,they are both from the same cloth. I thought you were kiddin but was'nt
sure. Thanks for clearing that up. I use to be afraid of PC's but since owning
one
I've come to the conclusion that they are just computers. I like OSX a bit
better than
XP mainly because I know the keyboard shotcuts better. If I could get OSX
to run
on a PC with to much trouble I would do it in a Heartbeat,if fact when I
build my
PARIS PC box I'll try and get it to boot into OSX. Let me know how your new
build
goes for that PARIS box I'll be needing help when I build mine.
respect
Nappy
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>Nappy. I forgot to put a smiley after my post. I was definitely kiddin'
>around. Despite my misgivings about Mr. Jobs, I'm seeing some upside to
Macs
>these days. Old habits die hard though and IMHO, Jobs and Gates are cut
from
>the same cloth. I guess that's what irks me the most about Mac....the
>"pseudo high road" mentality. they are both boxes full of componentry with
>OS'es that appeal to certain folks, as you said.
>
>Regards,
>;o)
>
>
>"Nappy" <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote in message news:45aaeb8d$1@linux...
>>
>> DJ,
>> I know a web cam does'nt do audio. I'm a bit dissapointed in you.
>> I'm not trying to make the point that the Mac is a better computer,I'm
>> just
>> pointing out some things that the Macbook has that the Dell does'nt.
>> Really my response is to Thad being the PC opposite of James. You seem
to
>> forget all his talk of Debian which has nothing to do with audio. I could
>> care less
>> which laptop you use as long as you are happy with it. Sure you can build
>> a PC
>> Core duo 2 box for cheaper than a Mac,but you can't run OSX on it. If
your
>> mad
>> that Steve Jobs wont let you run OSX on a PC thats another story. All
I'm
>> saying is If you put all
>> that hatred for Steve Jobs a side you should see that owning a Mac is
not
>> a bad idea
>> seeing you have all the software available to you and switching would
be
>> painless
>> since you would not have to buy all new software. You could run Wavelab
if
>> you want as well as LOgic on the same box,what is so wrong about that?
>>
>> You see,Thad has still not address the desktop Mac which have 2 Duel core
>> Xeon
>> prosessors for $2499,try building one of them for cheaper,ask Chris Ludwig
>>
>> if he can build one with the same specs for cheaper. I like Macs because
>> like it
>> or not they have software that I use that only runs on a Mac and I can
run
>> any
>> software that runs on XP on it as well and from were i sit thats makes
>> good
>> sense to me. Now if they come out with a PC version of Aperture and Logic
>> then I'll get
>> a PC. Sure I'd like to run OSX on a PC,but hating Steve Jobs is not going
>> to stop me
>> from using the software I want. Remember the old saying,"Find the software
>> you want to use and pick the platform that supports it" The Mac supports
>> both
>> platforms.
>>
>> respect
>> Nappy
>>
>> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>>How many tracks can that webcam record and play back?
>>>
>>>"Nappy" <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote in message news:45aa864c$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> And a web cam built in it.
>>>>
>>>> "Nappy" <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>The Macbooks have core duo 2 cpu's,try again.
>>>>>
>>>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us& cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=bndwe4j&s=bsd
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Core Duo laptop, 15.4" screen, DVD burner, 1 GB memory. $750
>>>>>>
>>>>>>There are better deals on occasion but this is the current sweet spot.
>>>> I
>>>>>>set up two of them last week.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>TCB
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hey Thad! I was checking Dell's prices, I didn't see any Core 2 Duo
>> lap
>>>>>>tops
>>>>>>>for $750.00. I could be wrong, but it looks like they start at $1299.
>>>>>
>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>wonder what they would cost similarly configured?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I think Apple typically makes more margin per unit, well that's what
>>
>>>>>>>I've
>>>>>>>read. As a dealer margins were always tight. In the past Apple
>>>>>>>manufactured
>>>>>>>proprietary hardware, and they just didn't sell the number of units
>> that
>>>>>>>PC manufactures did to have low prices. With Intel, it's a whole
new
>>>> ball
>>>>>>>game for Apple. I would think Dell still buys 10 times as much stuff
>>>> from
>>>>>>>Intel as Apple does. Dell probably gets better pricing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I have seen Dell do a thousand dollar rebate on their lap tops. When
>>>> that
>>>>>>>happens, Apple will not be able to compete.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/notebooks ?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>James
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>That's right, Jamie, I finally noticed that Apple is using Intel
>>>>>>>>processors.
>>>>>>>>You know me, never up on much in that wild and crazy world of tech.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>My point, which I stated fairly clearly, was that I have often heard
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>argument made that the reason Apple hardware is pricier than an
>>>>>>>>equivalent
>>>>>>>>Dell or home build is because they use superior components in their
>>
>>>>>>>>machines.
>>>>>>>>That's nonsense. Having seen their 'low end' laptop which runs about
>>>> $1300
>>>>>>>>I can say for sure that aside from the slot loading optical drive
and
>>>>>a
>>>>>>>nice
>>>>>>>>black case it's a slight downgrade from a $750 Dell. If the optical
>>
>>>>>>>>drive
>>>>>>>>and case are worth 45% more to you, than that's fine.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>BTW - Debian Etch is relatively easy get working on these. If I had
>>
>>>>>>>>more
>>>>>>>>money than sense I'd get one as a Debian machine because it's black.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>TCB
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Where's the fuel? You mean you finally noticed that Apple has gone
>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Intel for hardware designs, and onboard graphics on the low end
>>>>>>>>>models?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>This is pretty old news. When Apple announced the Intel switch more
>>>> than
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>a year ago, this was one of the reasons given. The Macbook is their
>>>> low
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>end laptop, and probably the biggest cost reduction was using the
>>>>>>>>>onboard graphics instead of something snazzier. The Macbook Pro
has
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>snazzier stuff, but it's still off the shelf with OSX drivers. Apple
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>doesn't and hasn't ever AFAIK developed their own graphics chipsets.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Well heck, they don't develop their own CPUs either, although I
>>>>>>>>>imagine
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>they give input to those companies. Up until last year Apple chose
>>>>>>>>>different CPU models than were blessed by Microsoft, and tried to
>> gain
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>an advantage from the differences. Now they are using the same CPUs
>>>> that
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Microsoft likes, so any advantage is going to be from design and
>>>>>>>>>software.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I like Apple's desktop case design. Really easy to get into and
>>>>>>>>>change
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>memory, drives, etc.; quiet and cool running airflow. The laptop
>>>>>>>>>designs
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>have varied at accessibility, sometimes compromising for thinness.
>> For
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>example my PowerBook is easy to access for memory upgrades but not
>> for
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>HD upgrades. That may have changed in the new ones.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Mac laptop sales are rising, other manufacturers are copying their
>>
>>>>>>>>>form
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>factor, but if you ever buy one (other than overpaying for a Macbook
>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>someone else, and then complaining about it) I'll be amazed. Sorry
>> you
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>had to subject yourself to working on a Mac today, but even sorrier
>>>> you
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>had to infect it with XP. ;^)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>TCB wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> So, I had to set up XP on a Mac Book today. The child of an
>>>>>>>>>> important
>>>>>>>>person
>>>>>>>>>> on my office had one and, surprise, most of the games a 12 year
>> old
>>>>>>likes
>>>>>>>>>> to play don't have Mac versions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So, once and for all I can put to rest the notion that Apple
>>>>>>>>>> hardware
>>>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>>>> somehow 'super special' and thus justifies the higher price. Intel
>>>>>chipset,
>>>>>>>>>> Intel integrated graphics, Atheros wireless, Marvell NIC, generic
>>>> firewire
>>>>>>>>>> controller. The CD/DVD burner was the slot loading kind, so that's
>>>>>slightly
>>>>>>>>>> cool (unless you want to pop out the CD before the machine boots
>>
>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>it's
>>>>>>>>>> nice to have a physical switch), but that's about the only thing
>>
>>>>>>>>>> unusual
>>>>>>>>>> about the hardware. If you were to show me the XP device list
for
>>>> a
>>>>>>Mac
>>>>>>>>Book
>>>>>>>>>> and the same list from a Dell 640m (two of which I've also set
up
>>>> recently)
>>>>>>>>>> I would have given a _slight_ preference to the Dell, mostly
>>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>>uses
>>>>>>>>>> an Intel wireless chipset that does b/g/n and bluetooth on one
>>>>>>>>>> chip,
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>>> I've had very good luck with those wireless cards. A 640m also
has
>>>>>a
>>>>>>>larger
>>>>>>>>>> screed and costs around $750.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In better news, I wound up on modular synth dreamland for about
>> five
>>>>>>>hours
>>>>>>>>>> last night, wiring up my John Bowen Pro Wave into modular patches
>>>> and
>>>>>>>>using
>>>>>>>>>> it to feed vocoders and all of the things that make computer
>>>>>>>>>> recording
>>>>>>>>worth
>>>>>>>>>> it. Then I forgot to save the presets, but hey, that's the way
it
>>>> goes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> TCB
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: To add fuel to the fire [message #78382 is a reply to message #78381] |
Sun, 14 January 2007 20:38 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Let me know how your new
> build
> goes for that PARIS box I'll be needing help when I build mine.
I'll kepp you guys posted. I decided to use the HD that I was going to be
the system drive in my Pariws rig today so I need to get another HD. After
that I'
ll finish the build. I'm going to order a Seagate or two for this DAW, I
think, and they don't sell them here in the snow covered wilderness.
I'll be glad to help when you start your build.
;o)
Deej
"Nappy" <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote in message news:45aaffc2$1@linux...
>
> I agree,they are both from the same cloth. I thought you were kiddin but
> was'nt
> sure. Thanks for clearing that up. I use to be afraid of PC's but since
> owning
> one
> I've come to the conclusion that they are just computers. I like OSX a bit
> better than
> XP mainly because I know the keyboard shotcuts better. If I could get OSX
> to run
> on a PC with to much trouble I would do it in a Heartbeat,if fact when I
> build my
> PARIS PC box I'll try and get it to boot into OSX. Let me know how your
> new
> build
> goes for that PARIS box I'll be needing help when I build mine.
>
> respect
> Nappy
>
> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>Nappy. I forgot to put a smiley after my post. I was definitely kiddin'
>
>>around. Despite my misgivings about Mr. Jobs, I'm seeing some upside to
> Macs
>>these days. Old habits die hard though and IMHO, Jobs and Gates are cut
> from
>>the same cloth. I guess that's what irks me the most about Mac....the
>>"pseudo high road" mentality. they are both boxes full of componentry with
>
>>OS'es that appeal to certain folks, as you said.
>>
>>Regards,
>>;o)
>>
>>
>>"Nappy" <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote in message news:45aaeb8d$1@linux...
>>>
>>> DJ,
>>> I know a web cam does'nt do audio. I'm a bit dissapointed in you.
>>> I'm not trying to make the point that the Mac is a better computer,I'm
>
>>> just
>>> pointing out some things that the Macbook has that the Dell does'nt.
>>> Really my response is to Thad being the PC opposite of James. You seem
> to
>>> forget all his talk of Debian which has nothing to do with audio. I
>>> could
>>> care less
>>> which laptop you use as long as you are happy with it. Sure you can
>>> build
>>> a PC
>>> Core duo 2 box for cheaper than a Mac,but you can't run OSX on it. If
> your
>>> mad
>>> that Steve Jobs wont let you run OSX on a PC thats another story. All
> I'm
>>> saying is If you put all
>>> that hatred for Steve Jobs a side you should see that owning a Mac is
> not
>>> a bad idea
>>> seeing you have all the software available to you and switching would
> be
>>> painless
>>> since you would not have to buy all new software. You could run Wavelab
> if
>>> you want as well as LOgic on the same box,what is so wrong about that?
>>>
>>> You see,Thad has still not address the desktop Mac which have 2 Duel
>>> core
>>> Xeon
>>> prosessors for $2499,try building one of them for cheaper,ask Chris
>>> Ludwig
>>>
>>> if he can build one with the same specs for cheaper. I like Macs because
>>> like it
>>> or not they have software that I use that only runs on a Mac and I can
> run
>>> any
>>> software that runs on XP on it as well and from were i sit thats makes
>
>>> good
>>> sense to me. Now if they come out with a PC version of Aperture and
>>> Logic
>>> then I'll get
>>> a PC. Sure I'd like to run OSX on a PC,but hating Steve Jobs is not
>>> going
>>> to stop me
>>> from using the software I want. Remember the old saying,"Find the
>>> software
>>> you want to use and pick the platform that supports it" The Mac supports
>>> both
>>> platforms.
>>>
>>> respect
>>> Nappy
>>>
>>> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>>>How many tracks can that webcam record and play back?
>>>>
>>>>"Nappy" <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote in message news:45aa864c$1@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>> And a web cam built in it.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Nappy" <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The Macbooks have core duo 2 cpu's,try again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us& cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=bndwe4j&s=bsd
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Core Duo laptop, 15.4" screen, DVD burner, 1 GB memory. $750
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>There are better deals on occasion but this is the current sweet
>>>>>>>spot.
>>>>> I
>>>>>>>set up two of them last week.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>TCB
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hey Thad! I was checking Dell's prices, I didn't see any Core 2 Duo
>>> lap
>>>>>>>tops
>>>>>>>>for $750.00. I could be wrong, but it looks like they start at
>>>>>>>>$1299.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>>wonder what they would cost similarly configured?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I think Apple typically makes more margin per unit, well that's what
>>>
>>>>>>>>I've
>>>>>>>>read. As a dealer margins were always tight. In the past Apple
>>>>>>>>manufactured
>>>>>>>>proprietary hardware, and they just didn't sell the number of units
>>> that
>>>>>>>>PC manufactures did to have low prices. With Intel, it's a whole
> new
>>>>> ball
>>>>>>>>game for Apple. I would think Dell still buys 10 times as much
>>>>>>>>stuff
>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>Intel as Apple does. Dell probably gets better pricing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I have seen Dell do a thousand dollar rebate on their lap tops.
>>>>>>>>When
>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>happens, Apple will not be able to compete.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/notebooks ?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>James
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>That's right, Jamie, I finally noticed that Apple is using Intel
>>>>>>>>>processors.
>>>>>>>>>You know me, never up on much in that wild and crazy world of tech.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>My point, which I stated fairly clearly, was that I have often
>>>>>>>>>heard
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>argument made that the reason Apple hardware is pricier than an
>>>>>>>>>equivalent
>>>>>>>>>Dell or home build is because they use superior components in their
>>>
>>>>>>>>>machines.
>>>>>>>>>That's nonsense. Having seen their 'low end' laptop which runs
>>>>>>>>>about
>>>>> $1300
>>>>>>>>>I can say for sure that aside from the slot loading optical drive
> and
>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>nice
>>>>>>>>>black case it's a slight downgrade from a $750 Dell. If the optical
>>>
>>>>>>>>>drive
>>>>>>>>>and case are worth 45% more to you, than that's fine.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>BTW - Debian Etch is relatively easy get working on these. If I had
>>>
>>>>>>>>>more
>>>>>>>>>money than sense I'd get one as a Debian machine because it's
>>>>>>>>>black.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>TCB
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Where's the fuel? You mean you finally noticed that Apple has gone
>>> to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Intel for hardware designs, and onboard graphics on the low end
>>>>>>>>>>models?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>This is pretty old news. When Apple announced the Intel switch
>>>>>>>>>>more
>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>a year ago, this was one of the reasons given. The Macbook is
>>>>>>>>>>their
>>>>> low
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>end laptop, and probably the biggest cost reduction was using the
>>>>>>>>>>onboard graphics instead of something snazzier. The Macbook Pro
> has
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>snazzier stuff, but it's still off the shelf with OSX drivers.
>>>>>>>>>>Apple
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>doesn't and hasn't ever AFAIK developed their own graphics
>>>>>>>>>>chipsets.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Well heck, they don't develop their own CPUs either, although I
>>>>>>>>>>imagine
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>they give input to those companies. Up until last year Apple chose
>>>>>>>>>>different CPU models than were blessed by Microsoft, and tried to
>>> gain
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>an advantage from the differences. Now they are using the same
>>>>>>>>>>CPUs
>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Microsoft likes, so any advantage is going to be from design and
>>>>>>>>>>software.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I like Apple's desktop case design. Really easy to get into and
>
>>>>>>>>>>change
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>memory, drives, etc.; quiet and cool running airflow. The laptop
>>>>>>>>>>designs
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>have varied at accessibility, sometimes compromising for thinness.
>>> For
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>example my PowerBook is easy to access for memory upgrades but not
>>> for
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>HD upgrades. That may have changed in the new ones.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Mac laptop sales are rising, other manufacturers are copying their
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>form
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>factor, but if you ever buy one (other than overpaying for a
>>>>>>>>>>Macbook
>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>someone else, and then complaining about it) I'll be amazed. Sorry
>>> you
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>had to subject yourself to working on a Mac today, but even
>>>>>>>>>>sorrier
>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>had to infect it with XP. ;^)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>TCB wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> So, I had to set up XP on a Mac Book today. The child of an
>>>>>>>>>>> important
>>>>>>>>>person
>>>>>>>>>>> on my office had one and, surprise, most of the games a 12 year
>>> old
>>>>>>>likes
>>>>>>>>>>> to play don't have Mac versions.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So, once and for all I can put to rest the notion that Apple
>>>>>>>>>>> hardware
>>>>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>>>>> somehow 'super special' and thus justifies the higher price.
>>>>>>>>>>> Intel
>>>>>>chipset,
>>>>>>>>>>> Intel integrated graphics, Atheros wireless, Marvell NIC,
>>>>>>>>>>> generic
>>>>> firewire
>>>>>>>>>>> controller. The CD/DVD burner was the slot loading kind, so
>>>>>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>slightly
>>>>>>>>>>> cool (unless you want to pop out the CD before the machine boots
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>it's
>>>>>>>>>>> nice to have a physical switch), but that's about the only thing
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> unusual
>>>>>>>>>>> about the hardware. If you were to show me the XP device list
> for
>>>>> a
>>>>>>>Mac
>>>>>>>>>Book
>>>>>>>>>>> and the same list from a Dell 640m (two of which I've also set
> up
>>>>> recently)
>>>>>>>>>>> I would have given a _slight_ preference to the Dell, mostly
>>>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>>>uses
>>>>>>>>>>> an Intel wireless chipset that does b/g/n and bluetooth on one
>
>>>>>>>>>>> chip,
>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>>>> I've had very good luck with those wireless cards. A 640m also
> has
>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>larger
>>>>>>>>>>> screed and costs around $750.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In better news, I wound up on modular synth dreamland for about
>>> five
>>>>>>>>hours
>>>>>>>>>>> last night, wiring up my John Bowen Pro Wave into modular
>>>>>>>>>>> patches
>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>using
>>>>>>>>>>> it to feed vocoders and all of the things that make computer
>>>>>>>>>>> recording
>>>>>>>>>worth
>>>>>>>>>>> it. Then I forgot to save the presets, but hey, that's the way
> it
>>>>> goes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> TCB
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: To add fuel to the fire [message #78385 is a reply to message #78376] |
Sun, 14 January 2007 21:14 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hey Nappy - first I'm just posting as a friendly comparison of perspectives,
not a one is "better" than the other debate, just to be sure you don't
misunderstand my intent, or think that I'm trying to degrade the value of a
Mac - great systems and nice design on a lot of levels. :-)
The only software I saw in the Apple store config was optional - iLife, etc,
and not included in the $2499. (Bluetooth, etc. also additional). Doesn't
really leave much, if anything different from what comes with Windows XP.
Sure, iPhoto, iMovie are nicer than Windows, but I don't use those at all as
they are really just home user apps anyway.
Software advantage depends on what you need it for - for Logic, there's no
other choice. If it's for home use, or even just buying off the shelf, then
preference really has everything to do with it.
I agree on PCI slots, hardware, etc. that's my big reason for staying with
PCs, that and they are just easier to use as sample library farms (and
multiple PCs also certainly work fine with a Mac/Logic as the main
sequencer/host).
Actually for the $90 saved, I would also be getting higher quality RAM (at
least based on what past models have used), possibly a better hard drive,
more PCI slots, and more options on the motherboard out of the box, but
yeah, it's only really relevant for guys like me that try to get the most
out of it for a specific purpose. And yes it is in a pro use where the
extra 5-10% can make a difference - even spending an extra $90 or so I could
get 2G which is a minimum for what I do - to add an extra 1G it's an extra
$299 (assuming the buyer would want to go DIY to save $200).
Of course that doesn't make the Mac any less of a pro solution - it's a
great solution.
It's preference - that's all I'm saying. There aren't stark contrasts that
often seem to be purported in these threads. For most people it's shades of
silicon and grey; but for some users, those shades are much more than a $90
difference or a half day spent building a system.
Regards,
Dedric
On 1/14/07 9:57 PM, in article 45aafba9$1@linux, "Nappy"
<mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Dedric,
> If you add all the software that comes with it and the elegant design plus
> the fact that you can run both OSX and XP and you don't have to build it
> makes
> up for the 90 plus dollars you save. I'm just saying it makes sense for a
> Pro to buy.
> You can do what you want,but you can't deny that its a good value. I'm not
> a die
> hard Mac person,in fact I'm going to build a PC to run PARIS on,it makes
> more sense.
> PC motherboards still offer PCI slots,and buying an old Mac that boots to
> OS9 is a step backwards. All I'm saying is don't let your feelings about
> Steve Jobs stop you from making a move to a Mac if it gives you more options.
> Lets face it,Thad and James represent two extremes of opinions,I'm talking
> about options as far as
> software goes,yes hardware wise PC's have more options,but as was already
> stated
> they both have the same or some of the same hardware so I give the Mac the
> advantage to Mac for software options. Thats My point.
>
> Is saving 90 plus dollars worth it?
>
> respect
> Nappy
> PS please respond
>
> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>> On 1/14/07 8:48 PM, in article 45aaeb8d$1@linux, "Nappy"
>> <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>>> You see,Thad has still not address the desktop Mac which have 2 Duel core
>>> Xeon
>>> prosessors for $2499,try building one of them for cheaper,ask Chris Ludwig
>>>
>>> if he can build one with the same specs for cheaper. I like Macs because
>>
>>
>> Hey Nappy -
>>
>> From Newegg.com,
>> dual 2.66 Xeon
>> Gigabyte server motherboard,
>> 1G Corsair DDR2 Ram (2x512),
>> 250G Western Digital SATA 3G drive
>> NVidia GeForce 7300 256M card
>> Sony DVD/CD combo drive (+/- DVDR), 16x
>> Antec power supply
>> Coolermaster case
>> Windows XP Pro SP2 with free upgrade to Vista:
>>
>> $2356 shipped.
>>
>> Not sure what motherboard or drives Apple uses - I think our last Mac
>> used Samsung. Memory and DVD/CD drive - also not sure. So I may have spent
>> more than necessary on this example. Apple also probably gets a bulk rate
>> on cpus so that can save a little over paying $700 each as an individual
>> buyer.
>>
>> fwiw....
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dedric
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: To add fuel to the fire [message #78389 is a reply to message #78385] |
Sun, 14 January 2007 23:59 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
From Apples web site. Included software with Mac Pro
• Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger
• The world's most advanced operating system including the latest versions
of these system applications:
• • Address Book
• • DVD Player
• • iCal
• • iChat AV
• • Mail
• • Preview
• • Safari
• • Xcode
• iLife '06 suite for creating photo projects, making movies, designing
DVDs, building websites, and composing music
• • iWork '06 30-day trial
• • Microsoft Office 2004 for Mac 30-day Test Drive
• • Comic Life
• • OmniOutliner
Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>Hey Nappy - first I'm just posting as a friendly comparison of perspectives,
>not a one is "better" than the other debate, just to be sure you don't
>misunderstand my intent, or think that I'm trying to degrade the value of
a
>Mac - great systems and nice design on a lot of levels. :-)
>
>The only software I saw in the Apple store config was optional - iLife,
etc,
>and not included in the $2499. (Bluetooth, etc. also additional). Doesn't
>really leave much, if anything different from what comes with Windows XP.
>Sure, iPhoto, iMovie are nicer than Windows, but I don't use those at all
as
>they are really just home user apps anyway.
>
>Software advantage depends on what you need it for - for Logic, there's
no
>other choice. If it's for home use, or even just buying off the shelf,
then
>preference really has everything to do with it.
>
>I agree on PCI slots, hardware, etc. that's my big reason for staying with
>PCs, that and they are just easier to use as sample library farms (and
>multiple PCs also certainly work fine with a Mac/Logic as the main
>sequencer/host).
>
>Actually for the $90 saved, I would also be getting higher quality RAM (at
>least based on what past models have used), possibly a better hard drive,
>more PCI slots, and more options on the motherboard out of the box, but
>yeah, it's only really relevant for guys like me that try to get the most
>out of it for a specific purpose. And yes it is in a pro use where the
>extra 5-10% can make a difference - even spending an extra $90 or so I could
>get 2G which is a minimum for what I do - to add an extra 1G it's an extra
>$299 (assuming the buyer would want to go DIY to save $200).
>
>Of course that doesn't make the Mac any less of a pro solution - it's a
>great solution.
>
>It's preference - that's all I'm saying. There aren't stark contrasts that
>often seem to be purported in these threads. For most people it's shades
of
>silicon and grey; but for some users, those shades are much more than a
$90
>difference or a half day spent building a system.
>
>Regards,
>Dedric
>
>On 1/14/07 9:57 PM, in article 45aafba9$1@linux, "Nappy"
><mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Dedric,
>> If you add all the software that comes with it and the elegant design
plus
>> the fact that you can run both OSX and XP and you don't have to build
it
>> makes
>> up for the 90 plus dollars you save. I'm just saying it makes sense for
a
>> Pro to buy.
>> You can do what you want,but you can't deny that its a good value. I'm
not
>> a die
>> hard Mac person,in fact I'm going to build a PC to run PARIS on,it makes
>> more sense.
>> PC motherboards still offer PCI slots,and buying an old Mac that boots
to
>> OS9 is a step backwards. All I'm saying is don't let your feelings about
>> Steve Jobs stop you from making a move to a Mac if it gives you more options.
>> Lets face it,Thad and James represent two extremes of opinions,I'm talking
>> about options as far as
>> software goes,yes hardware wise PC's have more options,but as was already
>> stated
>> they both have the same or some of the same hardware so I give the Mac
the
>> advantage to Mac for software options. Thats My point.
>>
>> Is saving 90 plus dollars worth it?
>>
>> respect
>> Nappy
>> PS please respond
>>
>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>> On 1/14/07 8:48 PM, in article 45aaeb8d$1@linux, "Nappy"
>>> <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>>>> You see,Thad has still not address the desktop Mac which have 2 Duel
core
>>>> Xeon
>>>> prosessors for $2499,try building one of them for cheaper,ask Chris
Ludwig
>>>>
>>>> if he can build one with the same specs for cheaper. I like Macs because
>>>
>>>
>>> Hey Nappy -
>>>
>>> From Newegg.com,
>>> dual 2.66 Xeon
>>> Gigabyte server motherboard,
>>> 1G Corsair DDR2 Ram (2x512),
>>> 250G Western Digital SATA 3G drive
>>> NVidia GeForce 7300 256M card
>>> Sony DVD/CD combo drive (+/- DVDR), 16x
>>> Antec power supply
>>> Coolermaster case
>>> Windows XP Pro SP2 with free upgrade to Vista:
>>>
>>> $2356 shipped.
>>>
>>> Not sure what motherboard or drives Apple uses - I think our last Mac
>>> used Samsung. Memory and DVD/CD drive - also not sure. So I may have
spent
>>> more than necessary on this example. Apple also probably gets a bulk
rate
>>> on cpus so that can save a little over paying $700 each as an individual
>>> buyer.
>>>
>>> fwiw....
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dedric
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: To add fuel to the fire [message #78391 is a reply to message #78379] |
Mon, 15 January 2007 02:21 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>hmmmm...........can you just stop them from running in the background and
>then reenable them like the Administrative Tools options in windows?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Dej
The only software that runs in the back ground is DashBoard, and you can
disable it, or completely remove it. But I don't think it's much of a hit
on the system.
I'm still not sure why you think Mac OSX is bloated? I'm not sure why you
think the first thing you would have to do is get under the hood and start
ripping things out??? To me it would be like you getting a new 600 hp. Dodge
Viper, and the first thing you want to do is rip out the AC system and passenger
seat to make it faster, when all your going to do is drive it on the street.
I would use a Mac out of the box for 6 months and worry about optimizing
it later. However, if you want to hot rod a Mac, this is one of the sites.
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/
Some of what you call bloat, like GarageBand you might find useful for song
writing. Until you use it for a while, you won't know. Your thinking that
you need a dedicated optimize audio work station, and that's Ok, but with
a Mac you really can use it for everything without it being a problem. I
guess it's a different line of thinking.
Honestly, I think it could be a bit of a hard transition for a hard core
PC user. I think at first, nothing will be where you want it to be. I think
it would be like being dropped off in a huge city you never been in. A place
where they drive on the opocit side of the street and nobody speaks your
language. It is to some extent like a whole different world. You'd have
the basics down in an hour or two. After a year of honest effort, you will
either hate it, or be totally hook. Either way, you'll truly know if a Mac
is for you.
I'm not telling you to get a Mac, I think if you do, you will miss all your
PC tinkering. Then again, I know you'll find away.
James
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:45aacfdd$1@linux...
>>
>> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>>So how do I get rid of 90% of the bloat that is advertized as being
>>>loaded
>>
>>>on the Mac? Is that as simple as everything else it does?
>>>
>>>;o)
>>
>> System stuff you can strip out but I would do some reading first.
>> Language
>> libraries would be first on my list. Programs, just drag them to the
>> trash
>> and flush the toilet. It's easy!
>>
>> James
>>
>>
>>>
>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:45aacb64$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>Heh. True, and good thing too. Don't forget to keep track of your costs
>>>>
>>>>>in all this, so next time we discuss which platform is actually
>>>>>"cheaper" we remember to take into account all these systems you keep
>>>>>building. :^)
>>>>>
>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Soon it will be Vista surgery time, ouch! ; )
>>>>
>>>> http://www.apple.com/getamac/
>>>>
>>>> ...and it goes on, and on!
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>DJ wrote:
>>>>>> I'm building a new one right now with an AMD 64 4800 x 2 CPU that's
>>
>>>>>> going
>>>> to
>>>>>> have 3 x EDS cards in it pretty soon. I've had some "issues" with
it
>>
>>>>>> though.
>>>>
>>>>>> Strange stuff, but I'm getting there. this is one of the coolest
>>>>>> mobo's
>>>> I've
>>>>>> ever seen as far as being able to assign IRQ's to individual PCI
>>>>>> slots,
>>>> but,
>>>>>> of course, like Paris, it's a discontinued model and rarer'n hen's
>>>>>> teeth.
>>>> Of
>>>>>> course, being a Mac guy instead of a normal person, you don't get
to
>>
>>>>>> rejoice
>>>>
>>>>>> in the ability to assign IRQs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ;o)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:45aa8362@linux...
>>>>>>> Don't get a Mac Deej. If we don't hear at least one story every month
>>>>
>>>>>>> about an amazing cobbled together Deej DAW contraption, we will die.
>>>> ;^)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>>>>> I really thought hard about jumping into this, especially since
I
>>
>>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>
>>>>>>>> accused of hating Macs, but it's worse than arguing politics.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> :O)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:C1CFB853.6939%dterry@keyofd.net...
>>>>>>>>> On 1/14/07 9:53 AM, in article 45aa5d12@linux, "Jamie K"
>>>>>>>>> <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You're right Dedric, they're all computers. They have always used
>>>>>>>>>> similar components and people argued about the differences. Now
>> that
>>>>>>>>>> they use pretty much the same components, there's still room to
>>
>>>>>>>>>> discuss
>>>>>>>>>> what differences remain.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The difference between OSX and, say, Vista, is more than the look
>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> GUI and logos. While there are strong similarities, different
>>>>>>>>>> philosophies and implementations create different user
>>>>>>>>>> experiences.
>>>> How
>>>>>>>>>> much of that difference matters to you will influence your desire
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> waste time on these threads. :^)
>>>>>>>>> Of course - I was just giving you guys a hard time because you
>>>>>>>>> seemed
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> arguing the same point from different perspectives. It's always
>> best
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> evaluate tech gear for what it is rather than how it is marketed.
>>>>>>>>>> But if you just want to get down the hill and don't see much
>>>>>>>>>> difference
>>>>>>>>>> in how you get there, a snowboard is as good as skis. No real
>>>>>>>>>> difference...
>>>>>>>>> Skis are better :-) ...and it's important to enjoy the whole
>>>>>>>>> mountain,
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> just the groomed runs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> BTW - iPhone is very cool. I don't have a new PDA, or cutting
edge
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> phone,
>>>>>>>>> so maybe there are other options too, but the touch screen and
>>>>>>>>> orientation
>>>>>>>>> detection rock. Too expensive for now though. If they come down,
>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>> consider getting one if it isn't too bulky for a phone.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dedric Terry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/13/07 6:48 PM, in article 45a988e7@linux, "Jamie K"
>>>>>>>>>>> <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> TCB wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's right, Jamie, I finally noticed that Apple is using
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Intel
>>>>>>>>>>>>> processors.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You know me, never up on much in that wild and crazy world
of
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tech.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Guess not, for Apple anyway. This is old news. Processors,
>>>>>>>>>>>> onboard
>>>>>>>>>>>> graphics chipsets on the low end, and, heck, doesn't Intel do
>> the
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> entire
>>>>>>>>>>>> motherboard now? So now, what were you complaining about?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Pardon me dropping in uninvited.... but...umm... what exactly
are
>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> guys
>>>>>>>>>>> arguing about? ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> An Intel cpu is an Intel cpu. Don't know what motherboards the
>> new
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Macs
>>>>>>>>>>> use, but undoubtedly they are also available on Newegg or
>>>>>>>>>>> TigerDirect
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> for a
>>>>>>>>>>> PC - the same goes for every other part, other than the case
and
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> OS.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The Motorola boards were made for Apple (probably exclusively)
>>>>>>>>>>> because,
>>>>>>>>>>> well, no one else used Motorola cpus for a PC (mostly for other
>>>>>>>>>>> hardware
>>>>>>>>>>> devices). I learned assembly language on 808x and 68k processors
>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>> Intel
>>>>>>>>>>> and Motorola. Both do much the same thing, but with a different
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> framework -
>>>>>>>>>>> 68k's were a little better suited for graphics, but not so much
>> for
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> math -
>>>>>>>>>>> vice versa for the Intels, though the differences were more in
>> the
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> structure
>>>>>>>>>>> and form of the instruction set, rather than actual functions
-
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> that's
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> main difference the later versions inherited. The problem with
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Moto
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> is they
>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't get their clock speeds down with their design - it was
>> a
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> limited
>>>>>>>>>>> design there. I think it is smart of Apple to finally ditch
them
>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> go for
>>>>>>>>>>> Intel (or AMD as was considered for a while I believe).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Motherboard manufacturers just make boards to run whatever cpu
>> is
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> selling
>>>>>>>>>>> enough to warrant making a board for it, so now you could
>>>>>>>>>>> probably
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> drop most
>>>>>>>>>>> any core 2 duo compatible mobo in a Mac and it should run, unless
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> OS is
>>>>>>>>>>> setup to lock out all but spec'd boards, or tolerances with other
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> parts are
>>>>>>>>>>> too low.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> With comps today, when it comes down to it, the only real
>>>>>>>>>>> difference
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> is what
>>>>>>>>>>> the GUI and the logos look like.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The rest is no more of a variation on a theme than you get going
>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>> Borders to Barnes & Noble.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: To add fuel to the fire [message #78392 is a reply to message #78368] |
Mon, 15 January 2007 02:37 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Well, here's more.
http://aroundcny.com/technofile/texts/mac031004.html
http://guides.macrumors.com/Uninstalling_Applications_in_Mac _OS_X
uninstaller software:
http://mac.softpedia.com/get/System-Utilities/Uninstaller.sh tml
http://www.allume.com/mac/springcleaning/updates.html
http://www.appzapper.com/
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>So how do I get rid of 90% of the bloat that is advertized as being loaded
>on the Mac? Is that as simple as everything else it does?
>
>;o)
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:45aacb64$1@linux...
>>
>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Heh. True, and good thing too. Don't forget to keep track of your costs
>>
>>>in all this, so next time we discuss which platform is actually
>>>"cheaper" we remember to take into account all these systems you keep
>>>building. :^)
>>>
>>>Cheers,
>>> -Jamie
>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>
>>
>> Soon it will be Vista surgery time, ouch! ; )
>>
>> http://www.apple.com/getamac/
>>
>> ...and it goes on, and on!
>>
>>>
>>>DJ wrote:
>>>> I'm building a new one right now with an AMD 64 4800 x 2 CPU that's
>>>> going
>> to
>>>> have 3 x EDS cards in it pretty soon. I've had some "issues" with it
>>>> though.
>>
>>>> Strange stuff, but I'm getting there. this is one of the coolest mobo's
>> I've
>>>> ever seen as far as being able to assign IRQ's to individual PCI slots,
>> but,
>>>> of course, like Paris, it's a discontinued model and rarer'n hen's
>>>> teeth.
>> Of
>>>> course, being a Mac guy instead of a normal person, you don't get to
>>>> rejoice
>>
>>>> in the ability to assign IRQs.
>>>>
>>>> ;o)
>>>>
>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:45aa8362@linux...
>>>>> Don't get a Mac Deej. If we don't hear at least one story every month
>>
>>>>> about an amazing cobbled together Deej DAW contraption, we will die.
>> ;^)
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>>> I really thought hard about jumping into this, especially since I
>>>>>> wasn't
>>
>>>>>> accused of hating Macs, but it's worse than arguing politics.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> :O)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:C1CFB853.6939%dterry@keyofd.net...
>>>>>>> On 1/14/07 9:53 AM, in article 45aa5d12@linux, "Jamie K"
>>>>>>> <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You're right Dedric, they're all computers. They have always used
>>>>>>>> similar components and people argued about the differences. Now
that
>>>>>>>> they use pretty much the same components, there's still room to
>>>>>>>> discuss
>>>>>>>> what differences remain.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The difference between OSX and, say, Vista, is more than the look
>> of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> GUI and logos. While there are strong similarities, different
>>>>>>>> philosophies and implementations create different user experiences.
>> How
>>>>>>>> much of that difference matters to you will influence your desire
>> to
>>>>>>>> waste time on these threads. :^)
>>>>>>> Of course - I was just giving you guys a hard time because you seemed
>> to
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> arguing the same point from different perspectives. It's always
best
>> to
>>>>>>> evaluate tech gear for what it is rather than how it is marketed.
>>>>>>>> But if you just want to get down the hill and don't see much
>>>>>>>> difference
>>>>>>>> in how you get there, a snowboard is as good as skis. No real
>>>>>>>> difference...
>>>>>>> Skis are better :-) ...and it's important to enjoy the whole
>>>>>>> mountain,
>>
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> just the groomed runs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW - iPhone is very cool. I don't have a new PDA, or cutting edge
>>
>>>>>>> phone,
>>>>>>> so maybe there are other options too, but the touch screen and
>>>>>>> orientation
>>>>>>> detection rock. Too expensive for now though. If they come down,
>> I
>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>> consider getting one if it isn't too bulky for a phone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dedric Terry wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 1/13/07 6:48 PM, in article 45a988e7@linux, "Jamie K"
>>>>>>>>> <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> TCB wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> That's right, Jamie, I finally noticed that Apple is using Intel
>>>>>>>>>>> processors.
>>>>>>>>>>> You know me, never up on much in that wild and crazy world of
>>>>>>>>>>> tech.
>>>>>>>>>> Guess not, for Apple anyway. This is old news. Processors, onboard
>>>>>>>>>> graphics chipsets on the low end, and, heck, doesn't Intel do
the
>>
>>>>>>>>>> entire
>>>>>>>>>> motherboard now? So now, what were you complaining about?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Pardon me dropping in uninvited.... but...umm... what exactly are
>> you
>>>>>>>>> guys
>>>>>>>>> arguing about? ;-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> An Intel cpu is an Intel cpu. Don't know what motherboards the
new
>>
>>>>>>>>> Macs
>>>>>>>>> use, but undoubtedly they are also available on Newegg or
>>>>>>>>> TigerDirect
>>
>>>>>>>>> for a
>>>>>>>>> PC - the same goes for every other part, other than the case and
>> the
>>>>>>>>> OS.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Motorola boards were made for Apple (probably exclusively)
>>>>>>>>> because,
>>>>>>>>> well, no one else used Motorola cpus for a PC (mostly for other
>>>>>>>>> hardware
>>>>>>>>> devices). I learned assembly language on 808x and 68k processors
>> -
>>>>>>>>> Intel
>>>>>>>>> and Motorola. Both do much the same thing, but with a different
>>
>>>>>>>>> framework -
>>>>>>>>> 68k's were a little better suited for graphics, but not so much
for
>>
>>>>>>>>> math -
>>>>>>>>> vice versa for the Intels, though the differences were more in
the
>>
>>>>>>>>> structure
>>>>>>>>> and form of the instruction set, rather than actual functions -
>>>>>>>>> that's
>>
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> main difference the later versions inherited. The problem with
>>>>>>>>> Moto
>>
>>>>>>>>> is they
>>>>>>>>> couldn't get their clock speeds down with their design - it was
a
>>
>>>>>>>>> limited
>>>>>>>>> design there. I think it is smart of Apple to finally ditch them
>> and
>>>>>>>>> go for
>>>>>>>>> Intel (or AMD as was considered for a while I believe).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Motherboard manufacturers just make boards to run whatever cpu
is
>>
>>>>>>>>> selling
>>>>>>>>> enough to warrant making a board for it, so now you could probably
>>
>>>>>>>>> drop most
>>>>>>>>> any core 2 duo compatible mobo in a Mac and it should run, unless
>> the
>>>>>>>>> OS is
>>>>>>>>> setup to lock out all but spec'd boards, or tolerances with other
>>
>>>>>>>>> parts are
>>>>>>>>> too low.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> With comps today, when it comes down to it, the only real
>>>>>>>>> difference
>>
>>>>>>>>> is what
>>>>>>>>> the GUI and the logos look like.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The rest is no more of a variation on a theme than you get going
>> from
>>>>>>>>> Borders to Barnes & Noble.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
>
|
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|
| Re: To add fuel to the fire [message #78397 is a reply to message #78391] |
Mon, 15 January 2007 06:45 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
James......
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:45ab4795$1@linux...
>
> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>hmmmm...........can you just stop them from running in the background and
>
>>then reenable them like the Administrative Tools options in windows?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Dej
>
> The only software that runs in the back ground is DashBoard, and you can
> disable it, or completely remove it. But I don't think it's much of a hit
> on the system.
OK.that's great!!
>
> I'm still not sure why you think Mac OSX is bloated?
Because it's got so much stuff bundled with it that it totally unnecessary
for my needs.
I'm not sure why you
> think the first thing you would have to do is get under the hood and start
> ripping things out???
I just have to do this. I don't even know why anymore. ;o)
To me it would be like you getting a new 600 hp. Dodge
> Viper, and the first thing you want to do is rip out the AC system and
> passenger
> seat to make it faster, when all your going to do is drive it on the
> street.
But I'm not driving it on the street. My office computer is my street
machine and it's got tons of crap on it that I'd never want on a DAW.
> I would use a Mac out of the box for 6 months and worry about optimizing
> it later. However, if you want to hot rod a Mac, this is one of the
> sites.
>
> http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/
Yeah. I'm familiar with that site. I used to read Thad's articles there.
>
> Some of what you call bloat, like GarageBand you might find useful for
> song
> writing. Until you use it for a while, you won't know. Your thinking
> that
> you need a dedicated optimize audio work station, and that's Ok, but with
> a Mac you really can use it for everything without it being a problem. I
> guess it's a different line of thinking.
Definitely different and no offense, but this goes to the root of my
misgivings about Macs. There have been so many outright lies told by Apple
vis-a-vis performance that the company has no credibility (with me at
least). Plus, I don't like the little smartass on their commercials.
;o)
>
> Honestly, I think it could be a bit of a hard transition for a hard core
> PC user. I think at first, nothing will be where you want it to be. I
> think
> it would be like being dropped off in a huge city you never been in. A
> place
> where they drive on the opocit side of the street and nobody speaks your
> language. It is to some extent like a whole different world.
I know. I own a Mac now. My wife uses it. I just give it sidelong dirty
looks whenever I'm in it's presence and it's always ****'ing up.
You'd have
> the basics down in an hour or two. After a year of honest effort, you
> will
> either hate it, or be totally hook. Either way, you'll truly know if a
> Mac
> is for you.
>
> I'm not telling you to get a Mac, I think if you do, you will miss all
> your
> PC tinkering. Then again, I know you'll find away.
>
> James
Yes, it would definitely get *personalized* before too long.
;o)
|
|
|
|
| Re: To add fuel to the fire [message #78398 is a reply to message #78392] |
Mon, 15 January 2007 06:48 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Links saved!!! Thanks. I'm gonna go down to our local Mac store and have
some fun with their demo machines. gotta try this stuff.
;oD
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:45ab4b69$1@linux...
>
> Well, here's more.
>
> http://aroundcny.com/technofile/texts/mac031004.html
>
> http://guides.macrumors.com/Uninstalling_Applications_in_Mac _OS_X
>
> uninstaller software:
>
> http://mac.softpedia.com/get/System-Utilities/Uninstaller.sh tml
>
> http://www.allume.com/mac/springcleaning/updates.html
>
> http://www.appzapper.com/
>
> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>So how do I get rid of 90% of the bloat that is advertized as being
>>loaded
>
>>on the Mac? Is that as simple as everything else it does?
>>
>>;o)
>>
>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:45aacb64$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Heh. True, and good thing too. Don't forget to keep track of your costs
>>>
>>>>in all this, so next time we discuss which platform is actually
>>>>"cheaper" we remember to take into account all these systems you keep
>>>>building. :^)
>>>>
>>>>Cheers,
>>>> -Jamie
>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> Soon it will be Vista surgery time, ouch! ; )
>>>
>>> http://www.apple.com/getamac/
>>>
>>> ...and it goes on, and on!
>>>
>>>>
>>>>DJ wrote:
>>>>> I'm building a new one right now with an AMD 64 4800 x 2 CPU that's
>
>>>>> going
>>> to
>>>>> have 3 x EDS cards in it pretty soon. I've had some "issues" with it
>
>>>>> though.
>>>
>>>>> Strange stuff, but I'm getting there. this is one of the coolest
>>>>> mobo's
>>> I've
>>>>> ever seen as far as being able to assign IRQ's to individual PCI
>>>>> slots,
>>> but,
>>>>> of course, like Paris, it's a discontinued model and rarer'n hen's
>>>>> teeth.
>>> Of
>>>>> course, being a Mac guy instead of a normal person, you don't get to
>
>>>>> rejoice
>>>
>>>>> in the ability to assign IRQs.
>>>>>
>>>>> ;o)
>>>>>
>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:45aa8362@linux...
>>>>>> Don't get a Mac Deej. If we don't hear at least one story every month
>>>
>>>>>> about an amazing cobbled together Deej DAW contraption, we will die.
>>> ;^)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>>>> I really thought hard about jumping into this, especially since I
>
>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>
>>>>>>> accused of hating Macs, but it's worse than arguing politics.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> :O)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:C1CFB853.6939%dterry@keyofd.net...
>>>>>>>> On 1/14/07 9:53 AM, in article 45aa5d12@linux, "Jamie K"
>>>>>>>> <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You're right Dedric, they're all computers. They have always used
>>>>>>>>> similar components and people argued about the differences. Now
> that
>>>>>>>>> they use pretty much the same components, there's still room to
>
>>>>>>>>> discuss
>>>>>>>>> what differences remain.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The difference between OSX and, say, Vista, is more than the look
>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> GUI and logos. While there are strong similarities, different
>>>>>>>>> philosophies and implementations create different user
>>>>>>>>> experiences.
>>> How
>>>>>>>>> much of that difference matters to you will influence your desire
>>> to
>>>>>>>>> waste time on these threads. :^)
>>>>>>>> Of course - I was just giving you guys a hard time because you
>>>>>>>> seemed
>>> to
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> arguing the same point from different perspectives. It's always
> best
>>> to
>>>>>>>> evaluate tech gear for what it is rather than how it is marketed.
>>>>>>>>> But if you just want to get down the hill and don't see much
>>>>>>>>> difference
>>>>>>>>> in how you get there, a snowboard is as good as skis. No real
>>>>>>>>> difference...
>>>>>>>> Skis are better :-) ...and it's important to enjoy the whole
>>>>>>>> mountain,
>>>
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> just the groomed runs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BTW - iPhone is very cool. I don't have a new PDA, or cutting edge
>>>
>>>>>>>> phone,
>>>>>>>> so maybe there are other options too, but the touch screen and
>>>>>>>> orientation
>>>>>>>> detection rock. Too expensive for now though. If they come down,
>>> I
>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>> consider getting one if it isn't too bulky for a phone.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dedric Terry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/13/07 6:48 PM, in article 45a988e7@linux, "Jamie K"
>>>>>>>>>> <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> TCB wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> That's right, Jamie, I finally noticed that Apple is using
>>>>>>>>>>>> Intel
>>>>>>>>>>>> processors.
>>>>>>>>>>>> You know me, never up on much in that wild and crazy world of
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> tech.
>>>>>>>>>>> Guess not, for Apple anyway. This is old news. Processors,
>>>>>>>>>>> onboard
>>>>>>>>>>> graphics chipsets on the low end, and, heck, doesn't Intel do
> the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> entire
>>>>>>>>>>> motherboard now? So now, what were you complaining about?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Pardon me dropping in uninvited.... but...umm... what exactly are
>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> guys
>>>>>>>>>> arguing about? ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> An Intel cpu is an Intel cpu. Don't know what motherboards the
> new
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Macs
>>>>>>>>>> use, but undoubtedly they are also available on Newegg or
>>>>>>>>>> TigerDirect
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> for a
>>>>>>>>>> PC - the same goes for every other part, other than the case and
>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> OS.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Motorola boards were made for Apple (probably exclusively)
>>>>>>>>>> because,
>>>>>>>>>> well, no one else used Motorola cpus for a PC (mostly for other
>>>>>>>>>> hardware
>>>>>>>>>> devices). I learned assembly language on 808x and 68k processors
>>> -
>>>>>>>>>> Intel
>>>>>>>>>> and Motorola. Both do much the same thing, but with a different
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> framework -
>>>>>>>>>> 68k's were a little better suited for graphics, but not so much
> for
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> math -
>>>>>>>>>> vice versa for the Intels, though the differences were more in
> the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> structure
>>>>>>>>>> and form of the instruction set, rather than actual functions -
>
>>>>>>>>>> that's
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> main difference the later versions inherited. The problem with
>
>>>>>>>>>> Moto
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> is they
>>>>>>>>>> couldn't get their clock speeds down with their design - it was
> a
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> limited
>>>>>>>>>> design there. I think it is smart of Apple to finally ditch them
>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> go for
>>>>>>>>>> Intel (or AMD as was considered for a while I believe).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Motherboard manufacturers just make boards to run whatever cpu
> is
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> selling
>>>>>>>>>> enough to warrant making a board for it, so now you could
>>>>>>>>>> probably
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> drop most
>>>>>>>>>> any core 2 duo compatible mobo in a Mac and it should run, unless
>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> OS is
>>>>>>>>>> setup to lock out all but spec'd boards, or tolerances with other
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> parts are
>>>>>>>>>> too low.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> With comps today, when it comes down to it, the only real
>>>>>>>>>> difference
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> is what
>>>>>>>>>> the GUI and the logos look like.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The rest is no more of a variation on a theme than you get going
>>> from
>>>>>>>>>> Borders to Barnes & Noble.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: To add fuel to the fire [message #78400 is a reply to message #78385] |
Mon, 15 January 2007 08:45 |
Nappy
Messages: 198
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Understood!
I'm not as computer savvy as most here which factors into my decision to
go with a Mac. I agree,preferance is everything.
PS how are the kids? You do have 2 if I recall?
I remember when your first was born.
Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>Hey Nappy - first I'm just posting as a friendly comparison of perspectives,
>not a one is "better" than the other debate, just to be sure you don't
>misunderstand my intent, or think that I'm trying to degrade the value of
a
>Mac - great systems and nice design on a lot of levels. :-)
>
>The only software I saw in the Apple store config was optional - iLife,
etc,
>and not included in the $2499. (Bluetooth, etc. also additional). Doesn't
>really leave much, if anything different from what comes with Windows XP.
>Sure, iPhoto, iMovie are nicer than Windows, but I don't use those at all
as
>they are really just home user apps anyway.
>
>Software advantage depends on what you need it for - for Logic, there's
no
>other choice. If it's for home use, or even just buying off the shelf,
then
>preference really has everything to do with it.
>
>I agree on PCI slots, hardware, etc. that's my big reason for staying with
>PCs, that and they are just easier to use as sample library farms (and
>multiple PCs also certainly work fine with a Mac/Logic as the main
>sequencer/host).
>
>Actually for the $90 saved, I would also be getting higher quality RAM (at
>least based on what past models have used), possibly a better hard drive,
>more PCI slots, and more options on the motherboard out of the box, but
>yeah, it's only really relevant for guys like me that try to get the most
>out of it for a specific purpose. And yes it is in a pro use where the
>extra 5-10% can make a difference - even spending an extra $90 or so I could
>get 2G which is a minimum for what I do - to add an extra 1G it's an extra
>$299 (assuming the buyer would want to go DIY to save $200).
>
>Of course that doesn't make the Mac any less of a pro solution - it's a
>great solution.
>
>It's preference - that's all I'm saying. There aren't stark contrasts that
>often seem to be purported in these threads. For most people it's shades
of
>silicon and grey; but for some users, those shades are much more than a
$90
>difference or a half day spent building a system.
>
>Regards,
>Dedric
>
>On 1/14/07 9:57 PM, in article 45aafba9$1@linux, "Nappy"
><mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Dedric,
>> If you add all the software that comes with it and the elegant design
plus
>> the fact that you can run both OSX and XP and you don't have to build
it
>> makes
>> up for the 90 plus dollars you save. I'm just saying it makes sense for
a
>> Pro to buy.
>> You can do what you want,but you can't deny that its a good value. I'm
not
>> a die
>> hard Mac person,in fact I'm going to build a PC to run PARIS on,it makes
>> more sense.
>> PC motherboards still offer PCI slots,and buying an old Mac that boots
to
>> OS9 is a step backwards. All I'm saying is don't let your feelings about
>> Steve Jobs stop you from making a move to a Mac if it gives you more options.
>> Lets face it,Thad and James represent two extremes of opinions,I'm talking
>> about options as far as
>> software goes,yes hardware wise PC's have more options,but as was already
>> stated
>> they both have the same or some of the same hardware so I give the Mac
the
>> advantage to Mac for software options. Thats My point.
>>
>> Is saving 90 plus dollars worth it?
>>
>> respect
>> Nappy
>> PS please respond
>>
>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>> On 1/14/07 8:48 PM, in article 45aaeb8d$1@linux, "Nappy"
>>> <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>>>> You see,Thad has still not address the desktop Mac which have 2 Duel
core
>>>> Xeon
>>>> prosessors for $2499,try building one of them for cheaper,ask Chris
Ludwig
>>>>
>>>> if he can build one with the same specs for cheaper. I like Macs because
>>>
>>>
>>> Hey Nappy -
>>>
>>> From Newegg.com,
>>> dual 2.66 Xeon
>>> Gigabyte server motherboard,
>>> 1G Corsair DDR2 Ram (2x512),
>>> 250G Western Digital SATA 3G drive
>>> NVidia GeForce 7300 256M card
>>> Sony DVD/CD combo drive (+/- DVDR), 16x
>>> Antec power supply
>>> Coolermaster case
>>> Windows XP Pro SP2 with free upgrade to Vista:
>>>
>>> $2356 shipped.
>>>
>>> Not sure what motherboard or drives Apple uses - I think our last Mac
>>> used Samsung. Memory and DVD/CD drive - also not sure. So I may have
spent
>>> more than necessary on this example. Apple also probably gets a bulk
rate
>>> on cpus so that can save a little over paying $700 each as an individual
>>> buyer.
>>>
>>> fwiw....
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dedric
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: To add fuel to the fire [message #78401 is a reply to message #78373] |
Mon, 15 January 2007 08:46 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"Nappy" <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>You see,Thad has still not address the desktop Mac which have 2 Duel core
>Xeon
>prosessors for $2499,try building one of them for cheaper,ask Chris Ludwig
>
>if he can build one with the same specs for cheaper.
That has zero to do with what I posted originally. My point was that I have
heard for YEARS that Apple somehow uses these super high grade components
that make their hardware more expensive. I haven't had to set up a Mac in
a few years, and of course the PowerPC versions were comparatively opaque
unless I would go to the trouble of putting Yellow Dog on them. Which I didn't.
But, because a co-workers' kid wanted to play a Windows game on his Macbook
I had a chance to look at what kind of hardware is in a $1400 Apple laptop.
The answer is pretty much the same stuff that's in a $750 Dell laptop, give
or take a copy of iLife and a web cam on the Mac and a bigger screen on the
Dell.
There are plenty of arguments for owning a Mac, the biggest one being personal
preference. I was only seeking to put another of them to bed, that they use
bending end components that put their hardware in another class than what
I use. Quite simply, they don't, and the move to generic Intel hardware makes
that quite clear.
TCB
I like Macs because
>like it
>or not they have software that I use that only runs on a Mac and I can run
>any
>software that runs on XP on it as well and from were i sit thats makes good
>sense to me. Now if they come out with a PC version of Aperture and Logic
>then I'll get
>a PC. Sure I'd like to run OSX on a PC,but hating Steve Jobs is not going
>to stop me
>from using the software I want. Remember the old saying,"Find the software
>you want to use and pick the platform that supports it" The Mac supports
>both
>platforms.
>
>respect
>Nappy
>
>"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>How many tracks can that webcam record and play back?
>>
>>"Nappy" <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote in message news:45aa864c$1@linux...
>>>
>>> And a web cam built in it.
>>>
>>> "Nappy" <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>The Macbooks have core duo 2 cpu's,try again.
>>>>
>>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us& cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=bndwe4j&s=bsd
>>>>>
>>>>>Core Duo laptop, 15.4" screen, DVD burner, 1 GB memory. $750
>>>>>
>>>>>There are better deals on occasion but this is the current sweet spot.
>>> I
>>>>>set up two of them last week.
>>>>>
>>>>>TCB
>>>>>
>>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hey Thad! I was checking Dell's prices, I didn't see any Core 2 Duo
>lap
>>>>>tops
>>>>>>for $750.00. I could be wrong, but it looks like they start at $1299.
>>>>
>>>>>I
>>>>>>wonder what they would cost similarly configured?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I think Apple typically makes more margin per unit, well that's what
>
>>>>>>I've
>>>>>>read. As a dealer margins were always tight. In the past Apple
>>>>>>manufactured
>>>>>>proprietary hardware, and they just didn't sell the number of units
>that
>>>>>>PC manufactures did to have low prices. With Intel, it's a whole new
>>> ball
>>>>>>game for Apple. I would think Dell still buys 10 times as much stuff
>>> from
>>>>>>Intel as Apple does. Dell probably gets better pricing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have seen Dell do a thousand dollar rebate on their lap tops. When
>>> that
>>>>>>happens, Apple will not be able to compete.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/notebooks ?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>James
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That's right, Jamie, I finally noticed that Apple is using Intel
>>>>>>>processors.
>>>>>>>You know me, never up on much in that wild and crazy world of tech.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>My point, which I stated fairly clearly, was that I have often heard
>>> the
>>>>>>>argument made that the reason Apple hardware is pricier than an
>>>>>>>equivalent
>>>>>>>Dell or home build is because they use superior components in their
>
>>>>>>>machines.
>>>>>>>That's nonsense. Having seen their 'low end' laptop which runs about
>>> $1300
>>>>>>>I can say for sure that aside from the slot loading optical drive
and
>>>>a
>>>>>>nice
>>>>>>>black case it's a slight downgrade from a $750 Dell. If the optical
>
>>>>>>>drive
>>>>>>>and case are worth 45% more to you, than that's fine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>BTW - Debian Etch is relatively easy get working on these. If I had
>
>>>>>>>more
>>>>>>>money than sense I'd get one as a Debian machine because it's black.
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>TCB
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Where's the fuel? You mean you finally noticed that Apple has gone
>to
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Intel for hardware designs, and onboard graphics on the low end
>>>>>>>>models?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>This is pretty old news. When Apple announced the Intel switch more
>>> than
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>a year ago, this was one of the reasons given. The Macbook is their
>>> low
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>end laptop, and probably the biggest cost reduction was using the
>>>>>>>>onboard graphics instead of something snazzier. The Macbook Pro has
>>> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>snazzier stuff, but it's still off the shelf with OSX drivers. Apple
>>>>
>>>>>>>>doesn't and hasn't ever AFAIK developed their own graphics chipsets.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Well heck, they don't develop their own CPUs either, although I
>>>>>>>>imagine
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>they give input to those companies. Up until last year Apple chose
>>>>>>>>different CPU models than were blessed by Microsoft, and tried to
>gain
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>an advantage from the differences. Now they are using the same CPUs
>>> that
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Microsoft likes, so any advantage is going to be from design and
>>>>>>>>software.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I like Apple's desktop case design. Really easy to get into and change
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>memory, drives, etc.; quiet and cool running airflow. The laptop
>>>>>>>>designs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>have varied at accessibility, sometimes compromising for thinness.
>For
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>example my PowerBook is easy to access for memory upgrades but not
>for
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>HD upgrades. That may have changed in the new ones.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Mac laptop sales are rising, other manufacturers are copying their
>
>>>>>>>>form
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>factor, but if you ever buy one (other than overpaying for a Macbook
>>>>for
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>someone else, and then complaining about it) I'll be amazed. Sorry
>you
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>had to subject yourself to working on a Mac today, but even sorrier
>>> you
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>had to infect it with XP. ;^)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>TCB wrote:
>>>>>>>>> So, I had to set up XP on a Mac Book today. The child of an
>>>>>>>>> important
>>>>>>>person
>>>>>>>>> on my office had one and, surprise, most of the games a 12 year
>old
>>>>>likes
>>>>>>>>> to play don't have Mac versions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, once and for all I can put to rest the notion that Apple
>>>>>>>>> hardware
>>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>>> somehow 'super special' and thus justifies the higher price. Intel
>>>>chipset,
>>>>>>>>> Intel integrated graphics, Atheros wireless, Marvell NIC, generic
>>> firewire
>>>>>>>>> controller. The CD/DVD burner was the slot loading kind, so that's
>>>>slightly
>>>>>>>>> cool (unless you want to pop out the CD before the machine boots
>
>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>it's
>>>>>>>>> nice to have a physical switch), but that's about the only thing
>
>>>>>>>>> unusual
>>>>>>>>> about the hardware. If you were to show me the XP device list for
>>> a
>>>>>Mac
>>>>>>>Book
>>>>>>>>> and the same list from a Dell 640m (two of which I've also set
up
>>> recently)
>>>>>>>>> I would have given a _slight_ preference to the Dell, mostly because
>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>uses
>>>>>>>>> an Intel wireless chipset that does b/g/n and bluetooth on one
chip,
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>> I've had very good luck with those wireless cards. A 640m also
has
>>>>a
>>>>>>larger
>>>>>>>>> screed and costs around $750.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In better news, I wound up on modular synth dreamland for about
>five
>>>>>>hours
>>>>>>>>> last night, wiring up my John Bowen Pro Wave into modular patches
>>> and
>>>>>>>using
>>>>>>>>> it to feed vocoders and all of the things that make computer
>>>>>>>>> recording
>>>>>>>worth
>>>>>>>>> it. Then I forgot to save the presets, but hey, that's the way
it
>>> goes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> TCB
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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| Re: To add fuel to the fire [message #78402 is a reply to message #78400] |
Mon, 15 January 2007 08:22 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 1/15/07 9:45 AM, in article 45aba181$1@linux, "Nappy"
<mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Understood!
> I'm not as computer savvy as most here which factors into my decision to
> go with a Mac. I agree,preferance is everything.
Hey Nappy -
We all debate these things as if they really matter, but it's just a means
to an end. Macs are great systems - the best comp is the one that serves
you best.
>
> PS how are the kids? You do have 2 if I recall?
> I remember when your first was born.
We do - thanks for asking. They are doing great! Aidan is 6 and in
kindergarten, and Bren is 19 months - both are a lot of fun - sweet kids.
How's your family? How are you?
Regards,
Dedric
>
> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>> Hey Nappy - first I'm just posting as a friendly comparison of perspectives,
>> not a one is "better" than the other debate, just to be sure you don't
>> misunderstand my intent, or think that I'm trying to degrade the value of
> a
>> Mac - great systems and nice design on a lot of levels. :-)
>>
>> The only software I saw in the Apple store config was optional - iLife,
> etc,
>> and not included in the $2499. (Bluetooth, etc. also additional). Doesn't
>> really leave much, if anything different from what comes with Windows XP.
>> Sure, iPhoto, iMovie are nicer than Windows, but I don't use those at all
> as
>> they are really just home user apps anyway.
>>
>> Software advantage depends on what you need it for - for Logic, there's
> no
>> other choice. If it's for home use, or even just buying off the shelf,
> then
>> preference really has everything to do with it.
>>
>> I agree on PCI slots, hardware, etc. that's my big reason for staying with
>> PCs, that and they are just easier to use as sample library farms (and
>> multiple PCs also certainly work fine with a Mac/Logic as the main
>> sequencer/host).
>>
>> Actually for the $90 saved, I would also be getting higher quality RAM (at
>> least based on what past models have used), possibly a better hard drive,
>> more PCI slots, and more options on the motherboard out of the box, but
>> yeah, it's only really relevant for guys like me that try to get the most
>> out of it for a specific purpose. And yes it is in a pro use where the
>> extra 5-10% can make a difference - even spending an extra $90 or so I could
>> get 2G which is a minimum for what I do - to add an extra 1G it's an extra
>> $299 (assuming the buyer would want to go DIY to save $200).
>>
>> Of course that doesn't make the Mac any less of a pro solution - it's a
>> great solution.
>>
>> It's preference - that's all I'm saying. There aren't stark contrasts that
>> often seem to be purported in these threads. For most people it's shades
> of
>> silicon and grey; but for some users, those shades are much more than a
> $90
>> difference or a half day spent building a system.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dedric
>>
>> On 1/14/07 9:57 PM, in article 45aafba9$1@linux, "Nappy"
>> <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Dedric,
>>> If you add all the software that comes with it and the elegant design
> plus
>>> the fact that you can run both OSX and XP and you don't have to build
> it
>>> makes
>>> up for the 90 plus dollars you save. I'm just saying it makes sense for
> a
>>> Pro to buy.
>>> You can do what you want,but you can't deny that its a good value. I'm
> not
>>> a die
>>> hard Mac person,in fact I'm going to build a PC to run PARIS on,it makes
>>> more sense.
>>> PC motherboards still offer PCI slots,and buying an old Mac that boots
> to
>>> OS9 is a step backwards. All I'm saying is don't let your feelings about
>>> Steve Jobs stop you from making a move to a Mac if it gives you more
>>> options.
>>> Lets face it,Thad and James represent two extremes of opinions,I'm talking
>>> about options as far as
>>> software goes,yes hardware wise PC's have more options,but as was already
>>> stated
>>> they both have the same or some of the same hardware so I give the Mac
> the
>>> advantage to Mac for software options. Thats My point.
>>>
>>> Is saving 90 plus dollars worth it?
>>>
>>> respect
>>> Nappy
>>> PS please respond
>>>
>>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>> On 1/14/07 8:48 PM, in article 45aaeb8d$1@linux, "Nappy"
>>>> <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>> You see,Thad has still not address the desktop Mac which have 2 Duel
> core
>>>>> Xeon
>>>>> prosessors for $2499,try building one of them for cheaper,ask Chris
> Ludwig
>>>>>
>>>>> if he can build one with the same specs for cheaper. I like Macs because
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hey Nappy -
>>>>
>>>> From Newegg.com,
>>>> dual 2.66 Xeon
>>>> Gigabyte server motherboard,
>>>> 1G Corsair DDR2 Ram (2x512),
>>>> 250G Western Digital SATA 3G drive
>>>> NVidia GeForce 7300 256M card
>>>> Sony DVD/CD combo drive (+/- DVDR), 16x
>>>> Antec power supply
>>>> Coolermaster case
>>>> Windows XP Pro SP2 with free upgrade to Vista:
>>>>
>>>> $2356 shipped.
>>>>
>>>> Not sure what motherboard or drives Apple uses - I think our last Mac
>>>> used Samsung. Memory and DVD/CD drive - also not sure. So I may have
> spent
>>>> more than necessary on this example. Apple also probably gets a bulk
> rate
>>>> on cpus so that can save a little over paying $700 each as an individual
>>>> buyer.
>>>>
>>>> fwiw....
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Dedric
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: To add fuel to the fire [message #78416 is a reply to message #78398] |
Mon, 15 January 2007 11:23 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hey Deej!
Be careful, some of those demo machines are FUBARed! Some people actually
try to hack and sabotage them. Or is that your purpose? ; )
On your PC you have a good cognitive map of where every thing is and how
it works. Like I said, Mac OSX will be like being dropped off in a strange
city. A good way to get a better understanding of Mac OSX is to read all
the info here:
http://www.apple.com/support/mac101/
I know this is going to sound obvious or elementary, but another good source
of information is under the help menu in OSX. Just type in a keyword or
short question, but start with the mac101 first.
After you go through mac101, then check this out.
http://www.apple.com/support/switch101/
I think that Apple will release the Core 2 Quad 8 processor machine in the
next 3 to 4 months. By July for sure. I would wait to buy, if that's what
your thinking. Their release schedule is all different now with the Intel
chips???
James
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>Links saved!!! Thanks. I'm gonna go down to our local Mac store and have
>some fun with their demo machines. gotta try this stuff.
>
>;oD
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:45ab4b69$1@linux...
>>
>> Well, here's more.
>>
>> http://aroundcny.com/technofile/texts/mac031004.html
>>
>> http://guides.macrumors.com/Uninstalling_Applications_in_Mac _OS_X
>>
>> uninstaller software:
>>
>> http://mac.softpedia.com/get/System-Utilities/Uninstaller.sh tml
>>
>> http://www.allume.com/mac/springcleaning/updates.html
>>
>> http://www.appzapper.com/
>>
>> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>>So how do I get rid of 90% of the bloat that is advertized as being
>>>loaded
>>
>>>on the Mac? Is that as simple as everything else it does?
>>>
>>>;o)
>>>
>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:45aacb64$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>Heh. True, and good thing too. Don't forget to keep track of your costs
>>>>
>>>>>in all this, so next time we discuss which platform is actually
>>>>>"cheaper" we remember to take into account all these systems you keep
>>>>>building. :^)
>>>>>
>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Soon it will be Vista surgery time, ouch! ; )
>>>>
>>>> http://www.apple.com/getamac/
>>>>
>>>> ...and it goes on, and on!
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>DJ wrote:
>>>>>> I'm building a new one right now with an AMD 64 4800 x 2 CPU that's
>>
>>>>>> going
>>>> to
>>>>>> have 3 x EDS cards in it pretty soon. I've had some "issues" with
it
>>
>>>>>> though.
>>>>
>>>>>> Strange stuff, but I'm getting there. this is one of the coolest
>>>>>> mobo's
>>>> I've
>>>>>> ever seen as far as being able to assign IRQ's to individual PCI
>>>>>> slots,
>>>> but,
>>>>>> of course, like Paris, it's a discontinued model and rarer'n hen's
>>>>>> teeth.
>>>> Of
>>>>>> course, being a Mac guy instead of a normal person, you don't get
to
>>
>>>>>> rejoice
>>>>
>>>>>> in the ability to assign IRQs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ;o)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:45aa8362@linux...
>>>>>>> Don't get a Mac Deej. If we don't hear at least one story every month
>>>>
>>>>>>> about an amazing cobbled together Deej DAW contraption, we will die.
>>>> ;^)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>>>>> I really thought hard about jumping into this, especially since
I
>>
>>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>
>>>>>>>> accused of hating Macs, but it's worse than arguing politics.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> :O)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:C1CFB853.6939%dterry@keyofd.net...
>>>>>>>>> On 1/14/07 9:53 AM, in article 45aa5d12@linux, "Jamie K"
>>>>>>>>> <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You're right Dedric, they're all computers. They have always used
>>>>>>>>>> similar components and people argued about the differences. Now
>> that
>>>>>>>>>> they use pretty much the same components, there's still room to
>>
>>>>>>>>>> discuss
>>>>>>>>>> what differences remain.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The difference between OSX and, say, Vista, is more than the look
>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> GUI and logos. While there are strong similarities, different
>>>>>>>>>> philosophies and implementations create different user
>>>>>>>>>> experiences.
>>>> How
>>>>>>>>>> much of that difference matters to you will influence your desire
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> waste time on these threads. :^)
>>>>>>>>> Of course - I was just giving you guys a hard time because you
>>>>>>>>> seemed
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> arguing the same point from different perspectives. It's always
>> best
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> evaluate tech gear for what it is rather than how it is marketed.
>>>>>>>>>> But if you just want to get down the hill and don't see much
>>>>>>>>>> difference
>>>>>>>>>> in how you get there, a snowboard is as good as skis. No real
>>>>>>>>>> difference...
>>>>>>>>> Skis are better :-) ...and it's important to enjoy the whole
>>>>>>>>> mountain,
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> just the groomed runs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> BTW - iPhone is very cool. I don't have a new PDA, or cutting
edge
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> phone,
>>>>>>>>> so maybe there are other options too, but the touch screen and
>>>>>>>>> orientation
>>>>>>>>> detection rock. Too expensive for now though. If they come down,
>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>> consider getting one if it isn't too bulky for a phone.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dedric Terry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/13/07 6:48 PM, in article 45a988e7@linux, "Jamie K"
>>>>>>>>>>> <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> TCB wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's right, Jamie, I finally noticed that Apple is using
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Intel
>>>>>>>>>>>>> processors.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You know me, never up on much in that wild and crazy world
of
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tech.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Guess not, for Apple anyway. This is old news. Processors,
>>>>>>>>>>>> onboard
>>>>>>>>>>>> graphics chipsets on the low end, and, heck, doesn't Intel do
>> the
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> entire
>>>>>>>>>>>> motherboard now? So now, what were you complaining about?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Pardon me dropping in uninvited.... but...umm... what exactly
are
>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> guys
>>>>>>>>>>> arguing about? ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> An Intel cpu is an Intel cpu. Don't know what motherboards the
>> new
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Macs
>>>>>>>>>>> use, but undoubtedly they are also available on Newegg or
>>>>>>>>>>> TigerDirect
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> for a
>>>>>>>>>>> PC - the same goes for every other part, other than the case
and
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> OS.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The Motorola boards were made for Apple (probably exclusively)
>>>>>>>>>>> because,
>>>>>>>>>>> well, no one else used Motorola cpus for a PC (mostly for other
>>>>>>>>>>> hardware
>>>>>>>>>>> devices). I learned assembly language on 808x and 68k processors
>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>> Intel
>>>>>>>>>>> and Motorola. Both do much the same thing, but with a different
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> framework -
>>>>>>>>>>> 68k's were a little better suited for graphics, but not so much
>> for
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> math -
>>>>>>>>>>> vice versa for the Intels, though the differences were more in
>> the
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> structure
>>>>>>>>>>> and form of the instruction set, rather than actual functions
-
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> that's
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> main difference the later versions inherited. The problem with
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Moto
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> is they
>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't get their clock speeds down with their design - it was
>> a
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> limited
>>>>>>>>>>> design there. I think it is smart of Apple to finally ditch
them
>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> go for
>>>>>>>>>>> Intel (or AMD as was considered for a while I believe).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Motherboard manufacturers just make boards to run whatever cpu
>> is
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> selling
>>>>>>>>>>> enough to warrant making a board for it, so now you could
>>>>>>>>>>> probably
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> drop most
>>>>>>>>>>> any core 2 duo compatible mobo in a Mac and it should run, unless
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> OS is
>>>>>>>>>>> setup to lock out all but spec'd boards, or tolerances with other
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> parts are
>>>>>>>>>>> too low.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> With comps today, when it comes down to it, the only real
>>>>>>>>>>> difference
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> is what
>>>>>>>>>>> the GUI and the logos look like.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The rest is no more of a variation on a theme than you get going
>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>> Borders to Barnes & Noble.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
|
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| Re: To add fuel to the fire [message #78426 is a reply to message #78401] |
Mon, 15 January 2007 13:22 |
Nappy
Messages: 198
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Fair enough
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>"Nappy" <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>
>>
>>You see,Thad has still not address the desktop Mac which have 2 Duel core
>>Xeon
>>prosessors for $2499,try building one of them for cheaper,ask Chris Ludwig
>>
>>if he can build one with the same specs for cheaper.
>
>That has zero to do with what I posted originally. My point was that I have
>heard for YEARS that Apple somehow uses these super high grade components
>that make their hardware more expensive. I haven't had to set up a Mac in
>a few years, and of course the PowerPC versions were comparatively opaque
>unless I would go to the trouble of putting Yellow Dog on them. Which I
didn't.
>But, because a co-workers' kid wanted to play a Windows game on his Macbook
>I had a chance to look at what kind of hardware is in a $1400 Apple laptop.
>The answer is pretty much the same stuff that's in a $750 Dell laptop, give
>or take a copy of iLife and a web cam on the Mac and a bigger screen on
the
>Dell.
>
>There are plenty of arguments for owning a Mac, the biggest one being personal
>preference. I was only seeking to put another of them to bed, that they
use
>bending end components that put their hardware in another class than what
>I use. Quite simply, they don't, and the move to generic Intel hardware
makes
>that quite clear.
>
>TCB
>
>I like Macs because
>>like it
>>or not they have software that I use that only runs on a Mac and I can
run
>>any
>>software that runs on XP on it as well and from were i sit thats makes
good
>>sense to me. Now if they come out with a PC version of Aperture and Logic
>>then I'll get
>>a PC. Sure I'd like to run OSX on a PC,but hating Steve Jobs is not going
>>to stop me
>>from using the software I want. Remember the old saying,"Find the software
>>you want to use and pick the platform that supports it" The Mac supports
>>both
>>platforms.
>>
>>respect
>>Nappy
>>
>>"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>>How many tracks can that webcam record and play back?
>>>
>>>"Nappy" <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote in message news:45aa864c$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> And a web cam built in it.
>>>>
>>>> "Nappy" <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>The Macbooks have core duo 2 cpu's,try again.
>>>>>
>>>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us& cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=bndwe4j&s=bsd
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Core Duo laptop, 15.4" screen, DVD burner, 1 GB memory. $750
>>>>>>
>>>>>>There are better deals on occasion but this is the current sweet spot.
>>>> I
>>>>>>set up two of them last week.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>TCB
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hey Thad! I was checking Dell's prices, I didn't see any Core 2 Duo
>>lap
>>>>>>tops
>>>>>>>for $750.00. I could be wrong, but it looks like they start at $1299.
>>>>>
>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>wonder what they would cost similarly configured?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I think Apple typically makes more margin per unit, well that's what
>>
>>>>>>>I've
>>>>>>>read. As a dealer margins were always tight. In the past Apple
>>>>>>>manufactured
>>>>>>>proprietary hardware, and they just didn't sell the number of units
>>that
>>>>>>>PC manufactures did to have low prices. With Intel, it's a whole
new
>>>> ball
>>>>>>>game for Apple. I would think Dell still buys 10 times as much stuff
>>>> from
>>>>>>>Intel as Apple does. Dell probably gets better pricing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I have seen Dell do a thousand dollar rebate on their lap tops. When
>>>> that
>>>>>>>happens, Apple will not be able to compete.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/notebooks ?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>James
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>That's right, Jamie, I finally noticed that Apple is using Intel
>>>>>>>>processors.
>>>>>>>>You know me, never up on much in that wild and crazy world of tech.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>My point, which I stated fairly clearly, was that I have often heard
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>argument made that the reason Apple hardware is pricier than an
>>>>>>>>equivalent
>>>>>>>>Dell or home build is because they use superior components in their
>>
>>>>>>>>machines.
>>>>>>>>That's nonsense. Having seen their 'low end' laptop which runs about
>>>> $1300
>>>>>>>>I can say for sure that aside from the slot loading optical drive
>and
>>>>>a
>>>>>>>nice
>>>>>>>>black case it's a slight downgrade from a $750 Dell. If the optical
>>
>>>>>>>>drive
>>>>>>>>and case are worth 45% more to you, than that's fine.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>BTW - Debian Etch is relatively easy get working on these. If I had
>>
>>>>>>>>more
>>>>>>>>money than sense I'd get one as a Debian machine because it's black.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>TCB
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Where's the fuel? You mean you finally noticed that Apple has gone
>>to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Intel for hardware designs, and onboard graphics on the low end
>>>>>>>>>models?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>This is pretty old news. When Apple announced the Intel switch more
>>>> than
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>a year ago, this was one of the reasons given. The Macbook is their
>>>> low
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>end laptop, and probably the biggest cost reduction was using the
>>>>>>>>>onboard graphics instead of something snazzier. The Macbook Pro
has
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>snazzier stuff, but it's still off the shelf with OSX drivers. Apple
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>doesn't and hasn't ever AFAIK developed their own graphics chipsets.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Well heck, they don't develop their own CPUs either, although I
>>>>>>>>>imagine
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>they give input to those companies. Up until last year Apple chose
>>>>>>>>>different CPU models than were blessed by Microsoft, and tried to
>>gain
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>an advantage from the differences. Now they are using the same CPUs
>>>> that
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Microsoft likes, so any advantage is going to be from design and
>
>>>>>>>>>software.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I like Apple's desktop case design. Really easy to get into and
change
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>memory, drives, etc.; quiet and cool running airflow. The laptop
>
>>>>>>>>>designs
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>have varied at accessibility, sometimes compromising for thinness.
>>For
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>example my PowerBook is easy to access for memory upgrades but not
>>for
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>HD upgrades. That may have changed in the new ones.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Mac laptop sales are rising, other manufacturers are copying their
>>
>>>>>>>>>form
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>factor, but if you ever buy one (other than overpaying for a Macbook
>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>someone else, and then complaining about it) I'll be amazed. Sorry
>>you
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>had to subject yourself to working on a Mac today, but even sorrier
>>>> you
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>had to infect it with XP. ;^)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>TCB wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> So, I had to set up XP on a Mac Book today. The child of an
>>>>>>>>>> important
>>>>>>>>person
>>>>>>>>>> on my office had one and, surprise, most of the games a 12 year
>>old
>>>>>>likes
>>>>>>>>>> to play don't have Mac versions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So, once and for all I can put to rest the notion that Apple
>>>>>>>>>> hardware
>>>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>>>> somehow 'super special' and thus justifies the higher price. Intel
>>>>>chipset,
>>>>>>>>>> Intel integrated graphics, Atheros wireless, Marvell NIC, generic
>>>> firewire
>>>>>>>>>> controller. The CD/DVD burner was the slot loading kind, so that's
>>>>>slightly
>>>>>>>>>> cool (unless you want to pop out the CD before the machine boots
>>
>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>it's
>>>>>>>>>> nice to have a physical switch), but that's about the only thing
>>
>>>>>>>>>> unusual
>>>>>>>>>> about the hardware. If you were to show me the XP device list
for
>>>> a
>>>>>>Mac
>>>>>>>>Book
>>>>>>>>>> and the same list from a Dell 640m (two of which I've also set
>up
>>>> recently)
>>>>>>>>>> I would have given a _slight_ preference to the Dell, mostly because
>>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>>uses
>>>>>>>>>> an Intel wireless chipset that does b/g/n and bluetooth on one
>chip,
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>>> I've had very good luck with those wireless cards. A 640m also
>has
>>>>>a
>>>>>>>larger
>>>>>>>>>> screed and costs around $750.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In better news, I wound up on modular synth dreamland for about
>>five
>>>>>>>hours
>>>>>>>>>> last night, wiring up my John Bowen Pro Wave into modular patches
>>>> and
>>>>>>>>using
>>>>>>>>>> it to feed vocoders and all of the things that make computer
>>>>>>>>>> recording
>>>>>>>>worth
>>>>>>>>>> it. Then I forgot to save the presets, but hey, that's the way
>it
>>>> goes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> TCB
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: To add fuel to the fire [message #78427 is a reply to message #78402] |
Mon, 15 January 2007 13:30 |
Nappy
Messages: 198
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
My family is great,
I've got Ruth who is 5 and in kindergarten as well,and David who is 8 and
in the
second grade,he's into basketball along with his brother Nathaniel who will
be
12 Feb 1st. I'm doing good,just waiting on a kidney. My sister is going though
testing to see if she is a match,if so then I could be getting a transfer
as soon as the summer. All the best to you and your family.
respect
Nappy
Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>On 1/15/07 9:45 AM, in article 45aba181$1@linux, "Nappy"
><mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Understood!
>> I'm not as computer savvy as most here which factors into my decision
to
>> go with a Mac. I agree,preferance is everything.
>Hey Nappy -
>
>We all debate these things as if they really matter, but it's just a means
>to an end. Macs are great systems - the best comp is the one that serves
>you best.
>>
>> PS how are the kids? You do have 2 if I recall?
>> I remember when your first was born.
>
>We do - thanks for asking. They are doing great! Aidan is 6 and in
>kindergarten, and Bren is 19 months - both are a lot of fun - sweet kids.
>How's your family? How are you?
>
>Regards,
>Dedric
>>
>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>> Hey Nappy - first I'm just posting as a friendly comparison of perspectives,
>>> not a one is "better" than the other debate, just to be sure you don't
>>> misunderstand my intent, or think that I'm trying to degrade the value
of
>> a
>>> Mac - great systems and nice design on a lot of levels. :-)
>>>
>>> The only software I saw in the Apple store config was optional - iLife,
>> etc,
>>> and not included in the $2499. (Bluetooth, etc. also additional). Doesn't
>>> really leave much, if anything different from what comes with Windows
XP.
>>> Sure, iPhoto, iMovie are nicer than Windows, but I don't use those at
all
>> as
>>> they are really just home user apps anyway.
>>>
>>> Software advantage depends on what you need it for - for Logic, there's
>> no
>>> other choice. If it's for home use, or even just buying off the shelf,
>> then
>>> preference really has everything to do with it.
>>>
>>> I agree on PCI slots, hardware, etc. that's my big reason for staying
with
>>> PCs, that and they are just easier to use as sample library farms (and
>>> multiple PCs also certainly work fine with a Mac/Logic as the main
>>> sequencer/host).
>>>
>>> Actually for the $90 saved, I would also be getting higher quality RAM
(at
>>> least based on what past models have used), possibly a better hard drive,
>>> more PCI slots, and more options on the motherboard out of the box, but
>>> yeah, it's only really relevant for guys like me that try to get the
most
>>> out of it for a specific purpose. And yes it is in a pro use where the
>>> extra 5-10% can make a difference - even spending an extra $90 or so
I could
>>> get 2G which is a minimum for what I do - to add an extra 1G it's an
extra
>>> $299 (assuming the buyer would want to go DIY to save $200).
>>>
>>> Of course that doesn't make the Mac any less of a pro solution - it's
a
>>> great solution.
>>>
>>> It's preference - that's all I'm saying. There aren't stark contrasts
that
>>> often seem to be purported in these threads. For most people it's shades
>> of
>>> silicon and grey; but for some users, those shades are much more than
a
>> $90
>>> difference or a half day spent building a system.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dedric
>>>
>>> On 1/14/07 9:57 PM, in article 45aafba9$1@linux, "Nappy"
>>> <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dedric,
>>>> If you add all the software that comes with it and the elegant design
>> plus
>>>> the fact that you can run both OSX and XP and you don't have to build
>> it
>>>> makes
>>>> up for the 90 plus dollars you save. I'm just saying it makes sense
for
>> a
>>>> Pro to buy.
>>>> You can do what you want,but you can't deny that its a good value. I'm
>> not
>>>> a die
>>>> hard Mac person,in fact I'm going to build a PC to run PARIS on,it makes
>>>> more sense.
>>>> PC motherboards still offer PCI slots,and buying an old Mac that boots
>> to
>>>> OS9 is a step backwards. All I'm saying is don't let your feelings about
>>>> Steve Jobs stop you from making a move to a Mac if it gives you more
>>>> options.
>>>> Lets face it,Thad and James represent two extremes of opinions,I'm
talking
>>>> about options as far as
>>>> software goes,yes hardware wise PC's have more options,but as was already
>>>> stated
>>>> they both have the same or some of the same hardware so I give the Mac
>> the
>>>> advantage to Mac for software options. Thats My point.
>>>>
>>>> Is saving 90 plus dollars worth it?
>>>>
>>>> respect
>>>> Nappy
>>>> PS please respond
>>>>
>>>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 1/14/07 8:48 PM, in article 45aaeb8d$1@linux, "Nappy"
>>>>> <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>> You see,Thad has still not address the desktop Mac which have 2 Duel
>> core
>>>>>> Xeon
>>>>>> prosessors for $2499,try building one of them for cheaper,ask Chris
>> Ludwig
>>>>>>
>>>>>> if he can build one with the same specs for cheaper. I like Macs because
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey Nappy -
>>>>>
>>>>> From Newegg.com,
>>>>> dual 2.66 Xeon
>>>>> Gigabyte server motherboard,
>>>>> 1G Corsair DDR2 Ram (2x512),
>>>>> 250G Western Digital SATA 3G drive
>>>>> NVidia GeForce 7300 256M card
>>>>> Sony DVD/CD combo drive (+/- DVDR), 16x
>>>>> Antec power supply
>>>>> Coolermaster case
>>>>> Windows XP Pro SP2 with free upgrade to Vista:
>>>>>
>>>>> $2356 shipped.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not sure what motherboard or drives Apple uses - I think our last Mac
>>>>> used Samsung. Memory and DVD/CD drive - also not sure. So I may have
>> spent
>>>>> more than necessary on this example. Apple also probably gets a bulk
>> rate
>>>>> on cpus so that can save a little over paying $700 each as an individual
>>>>> buyer.
>>>>>
>>>>> fwiw....
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Dedric : To add fuel to the fire [message #78428 is a reply to message #78402] |
Mon, 15 January 2007 14:17 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Dedric,
From Newegg.com, dual 2.66 Xeon Gigabyte server motherboard,
Is this board Dual 2 core (Xeon) compatiblle??
Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>On 1/15/07 9:45 AM, in article 45aba181$1@linux, "Nappy"
><mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Understood!
>> I'm not as computer savvy as most here which factors into my decision
to
>> go with a Mac. I agree,preferance is everything.
>Hey Nappy -
>
>We all debate these things as if they really matter, but it's just a means
>to an end. Macs are great systems - the best comp is the one that serves
>you best.
>>
>> PS how are the kids? You do have 2 if I recall?
>> I remember when your first was born.
>
>We do - thanks for asking. They are doing great! Aidan is 6 and in
>kindergarten, and Bren is 19 months - both are a lot of fun - sweet kids.
>How's your family? How are you?
>
>Regards,
>Dedric
>>
>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>> Hey Nappy - first I'm just posting as a friendly comparison of perspectives,
>>> not a one is "better" than the other debate, just to be sure you don't
>>> misunderstand my intent, or think that I'm trying to degrade the value
of
>> a
>>> Mac - great systems and nice design on a lot of levels. :-)
>>>
>>> The only software I saw in the Apple store config was optional - iLife,
>> etc,
>>> and not included in the $2499. (Bluetooth, etc. also additional). Doesn't
>>> really leave much, if anything different from what comes with Windows
XP.
>>> Sure, iPhoto, iMovie are nicer than Windows, but I don't use those at
all
>> as
>>> they are really just home user apps anyway.
>>>
>>> Software advantage depends on what you need it for - for Logic, there's
>> no
>>> other choice. If it's for home use, or even just buying off the shelf,
>> then
>>> preference really has everything to do with it.
>>>
>>> I agree on PCI slots, hardware, etc. that's my big reason for staying
with
>>> PCs, that and they are just easier to use as sample library farms (and
>>> multiple PCs also certainly work fine with a Mac/Logic as the main
>>> sequencer/host).
>>>
>>> Actually for the $90 saved, I would also be getting higher quality RAM
(at
>>> least based on what past models have used), possibly a better hard drive,
>>> more PCI slots, and more options on the motherboard out of the box, but
>>> yeah, it's only really relevant for guys like me that try to get the
most
>>> out of it for a specific purpose. And yes it is in a pro use where the
>>> extra 5-10% can make a difference - even spending an extra $90 or so
I could
>>> get 2G which is a minimum for what I do - to add an extra 1G it's an
extra
>>> $299 (assuming the buyer would want to go DIY to save $200).
>>>
>>> Of course that doesn't make the Mac any less of a pro solution - it's
a
>>> great solution.
>>>
>>> It's preference - that's all I'm saying. There aren't stark contrasts
that
>>> often seem to be purported in these threads. For most people it's shades
>> of
>>> silicon and grey; but for some users, those shades are much more than
a
>> $90
>>> difference or a half day spent building a system.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dedric
>>>
>>> On 1/14/07 9:57 PM, in article 45aafba9$1@linux, "Nappy"
>>> <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dedric,
>>>> If you add all the software that comes with it and the elegant design
>> plus
>>>> the fact that you can run both OSX and XP and you don't have to build
>> it
>>>> makes
>>>> up for the 90 plus dollars you save. I'm just saying it makes sense
for
>> a
>>>> Pro to buy.
>>>> You can do what you want,but you can't deny that its a good value. I'm
>> not
>>>> a die
>>>> hard Mac person,in fact I'm going to build a PC to run PARIS on,it makes
>>>> more sense.
>>>> PC motherboards still offer PCI slots,and buying an old Mac that boots
>> to
>>>> OS9 is a step backwards. All I'm saying is don't let your feelings about
>>>> Steve Jobs stop you from making a move to a Mac if it gives you more
>>>> options.
>>>> Lets face it,Thad and James represent two extremes of opinions,I'm
talking
>>>> about options as far as
>>>> software goes,yes hardware wise PC's have more options,but as was already
>>>> stated
>>>> they both have the same or some of the same hardware so I give the Mac
>> the
>>>> advantage to Mac for software options. Thats My point.
>>>>
>>>> Is saving 90 plus dollars worth it?
>>>>
>>>> respect
>>>> Nappy
>>>> PS please respond
>>>>
>>>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 1/14/07 8:48 PM, in article 45aaeb8d$1@linux, "Nappy"
>>>>> <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>> You see,Thad has still not address the desktop Mac which have 2 Duel
>> core
>>>>>> Xeon
>>>>>> prosessors for $2499,try building one of them for cheaper,ask Chris
>> Ludwig
>>>>>>
>>>>>> if he can build one with the same specs for cheaper. I like Macs because
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey Nappy -
>>>>>
>>>>> From Newegg.com,
>>>>> dual 2.66 Xeon
>>>>> Gigabyte server motherboard,
>>>>> 1G Corsair DDR2 Ram (2x512),
>>>>> 250G Western Digital SATA 3G drive
>>>>> NVidia GeForce 7300 256M card
>>>>> Sony DVD/CD combo drive (+/- DVDR), 16x
>>>>> Antec power supply
>>>>> Coolermaster case
>>>>> Windows XP Pro SP2 with free upgrade to Vista:
>>>>>
>>>>> $2356 shipped.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not sure what motherboard or drives Apple uses - I think our last Mac
>>>>> used Samsung. Memory and DVD/CD drive - also not sure. So I may have
>> spent
>>>>> more than necessary on this example. Apple also probably gets a bulk
>> rate
>>>>> on cpus so that can save a little over paying $700 each as an individual
>>>>> buyer.
>>>>>
>>>>> fwiw....
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: To add fuel to the fire [message #78430 is a reply to message #78416] |
Mon, 15 January 2007 13:52 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
James,
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:45abc6a4$1@linux...
>
> Hey Deej!
>
> Be careful, some of those demo machines are FUBARed! Some people actually
> try to hack and sabotage them. Or is that your purpose? ; )
Well........as we were discussing, I need to see how much of the existing OS
I can hack, right? I figured I'd have some fun on someone else's machine.
;oD
>
> On your PC you have a good cognitive map of where every thing is and how
> it works. Like I said, Mac OSX will be like being dropped off in a
> strange
> city. A good way to get a better understanding of Mac OSX is to read all
> the info here:
>
> http://www.apple.com/support/mac101/
>
> I know this is going to sound obvious or elementary, but another good
> source
> of information is under the help menu in OSX. Just type in a keyword or
> short question, but start with the mac101 first.
>
> After you go through mac101, then check this out.
>
> http://www.apple.com/support/switch101/
>
> I think that Apple will release the Core 2 Quad 8 processor machine in the
> next 3 to 4 months. By July for sure. I would wait to buy, if that's
> what
> your thinking. Their release schedule is all different now with the Intel
> chips???
>
> James
>Thansk for the info. I'll look into it. right now I'm installing windows on
>a new HD with the AMD dual core to see what happens with 3 x EDS cards that
>were loaned to me a couple of months ago. I figure I need to get this
>experiment done since the guy who loaned them to me has been nice enough
>not to hunt me down and break my knees for being such a slacker on this.
Cheers,
Deej
> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>Links saved!!! Thanks. I'm gonna go down to our local Mac store and have
>
>>some fun with their demo machines. gotta try this stuff.
>>
>>;oD
>>
>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:45ab4b69$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Well, here's more.
>>>
>>> http://aroundcny.com/technofile/texts/mac031004.html
>>>
>>> http://guides.macrumors.com/Uninstalling_Applications_in_Mac _OS_X
>>>
>>> uninstaller software:
>>>
>>> http://mac.softpedia.com/get/System-Utilities/Uninstaller.sh tml
>>>
>>> http://www.allume.com/mac/springcleaning/updates.html
>>>
>>> http://www.appzapper.com/
>>>
>>> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>>>So how do I get rid of 90% of the bloat that is advertized as being
>>>>loaded
>>>
>>>>on the Mac? Is that as simple as everything else it does?
>>>>
>>>>;o)
>>>>
>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:45aacb64$1@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Heh. True, and good thing too. Don't forget to keep track of your
>>>>>>costs
>>>>>
>>>>>>in all this, so next time we discuss which platform is actually
>>>>>>"cheaper" we remember to take into account all these systems you keep
>>>>>>building. :^)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Soon it will be Vista surgery time, ouch! ; )
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.apple.com/getamac/
>>>>>
>>>>> ...and it goes on, and on!
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>DJ wrote:
>>>>>>> I'm building a new one right now with an AMD 64 4800 x 2 CPU that's
>>>
>>>>>>> going
>>>>> to
>>>>>>> have 3 x EDS cards in it pretty soon. I've had some "issues" with
> it
>>>
>>>>>>> though.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Strange stuff, but I'm getting there. this is one of the coolest
>>>>>>> mobo's
>>>>> I've
>>>>>>> ever seen as far as being able to assign IRQ's to individual PCI
>>>>>>> slots,
>>>>> but,
>>>>>>> of course, like Paris, it's a discontinued model and rarer'n hen's
>>>>>>> teeth.
>>>>> Of
>>>>>>> course, being a Mac guy instead of a normal person, you don't get
> to
>>>
>>>>>>> rejoice
>>>>>
>>>>>>> in the ability to assign IRQs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ;o)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:45aa8362@linux...
>>>>>>>> Don't get a Mac Deej. If we don't hear at least one story every
>>>>>>>> month
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> about an amazing cobbled together Deej DAW contraption, we will
>>>>>>>> die.
>>>>> ;^)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I really thought hard about jumping into this, especially since
> I
>>>
>>>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> accused of hating Macs, but it's worse than arguing politics.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> :O)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:C1CFB853.6939%dterry@keyofd.net...
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/14/07 9:53 AM, in article 45aa5d12@linux, "Jamie K"
>>>>>>>>>> <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You're right Dedric, they're all computers. They have always
>>>>>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>>>>>> similar components and people argued about the differences. Now
>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> they use pretty much the same components, there's still room to
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> discuss
>>>>>>>>>>> what differences remain.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The difference between OSX and, say, Vista, is more than the
>>>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> GUI and logos. While there are strong similarities, different
>>>>>>>>>>> philosophies and implementations create different user
>>>>>>>>>>> experiences.
>>>>> How
>>>>>>>>>>> much of that difference matters to you will influence your
>>>>>>>>>>> desire
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> waste time on these threads. :^)
>>>>>>>>>> Of course - I was just giving you guys a hard time because you
>
>>>>>>>>>> seemed
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> arguing the same point from different perspectives. It's always
>>> best
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> evaluate tech gear for what it is rather than how it is marketed.
>>>>>>>>>>> But if you just want to get down the hill and don't see much
>>>>>>>>>>> difference
>>>>>>>>>>> in how you get there, a snowboard is as good as skis. No real
>>>>>>>>>>> difference...
>>>>>>>>>> Skis are better :-) ...and it's important to enjoy the whole
>>>>>>>>>> mountain,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> just the groomed runs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> BTW - iPhone is very cool. I don't have a new PDA, or cutting
> edge
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> phone,
>>>>>>>>>> so maybe there are other options too, but the touch screen and
>>>>>>>>>> orientation
>>>>>>>>>> detection rock. Too expensive for now though. If they come
>>>>>>>>>> down,
>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>>> consider getting one if it isn't too bulky for a phone.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Dedric Terry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/13/07 6:48 PM, in article 45a988e7@linux, "Jamie K"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> TCB wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's right, Jamie, I finally noticed that Apple is using
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Intel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> processors.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You know me, never up on much in that wild and crazy world
> of
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tech.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Guess not, for Apple anyway. This is old news. Processors,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> onboard
>>>>>>>>>>>>> graphics chipsets on the low end, and, heck, doesn't Intel do
>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> entire
>>>>>>>>>>>>> motherboard now? So now, what were you complaining about?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Pardon me dropping in uninvited.... but...umm... what exactly
> are
>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>> guys
>>>>>>>>>>>> arguing about? ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> An Intel cpu is an Intel cpu. Don't know what motherboards the
>>> new
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Macs
>>>>>>>>>>>> use, but undoubtedly they are also available on Newegg or
>>>>>>>>>>>> TigerDirect
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> for a
>>>>>>>>>>>> PC - the same goes for every other part, other than the case
> and
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> OS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Motorola boards were made for Apple (probably exclusively)
>>>>>>>>>>>> because,
>>>>>>>>>>>> well, no one else used Motorola cpus for a PC (mostly for other
>>>>>>>>>>>> hardware
>>>>>>>>>>>> devices). I learned assembly language on 808x and 68k
>>>>>>>>>>>> processors
>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>> Intel
>>>>>>>>>>>> and Motorola. Both do much the same thing, but with a
>>>>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> framework -
>>>>>>>>>>>> 68k's were a little better suited for graphics, but not so much
>>> for
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> math -
>>>>>>>>>>>> vice versa for the Intels, though the differences were more in
>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> structure
>>>>>>>>>>>> and form of the instruction set, rather than actual functions
> -
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> main difference the later versions inherited. The problem with
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Moto
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> is they
>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't get their clock speeds down with their design - it was
>>> a
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> limited
>>>>>>>>>>>> design there. I think it is smart of Apple to finally ditch
> them
>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> go for
>>>>>>>>>>>> Intel (or AMD as was considered for a while I believe).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Motherboard manufacturers just make boards to run whatever cpu
>>> is
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> selling
>>>>>>>>>>>> enough to warrant making a board for it, so now you could
>>>>>>>>>>>> probably
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> drop most
>>>>>>>>>>>> any core 2 duo compatible mobo in a Mac and it should run,
>>>>>>>>>>>> unless
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> OS is
>>>>>>>>>>>> setup to lock out all but spec'd boards, or tolerances with
>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> parts are
>>>>>>>>>>>> too low.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> With comps today, when it comes down to it, the only real
>>>>>>>>>>>> difference
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> is what
>>>>>>>>>>>> the GUI and the logos look like.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The rest is no more of a variation on a theme than you get
>>>>>>>>>>>> going
>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>> Borders to Barnes & Noble.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
|
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| Re: Dedric : To add fuel to the fire [message #78433 is a reply to message #78428] |
Mon, 15 January 2007 14:12 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
The one I was looking at was - socket 771.
Dedric
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:45abef81$1@linux...
>
> Dedric,
> From Newegg.com, dual 2.66 Xeon Gigabyte server motherboard,
>
> Is this board Dual 2 core (Xeon) compatiblle??
>
> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>On 1/15/07 9:45 AM, in article 45aba181$1@linux, "Nappy"
>><mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Understood!
>>> I'm not as computer savvy as most here which factors into my decision
> to
>>> go with a Mac. I agree,preferance is everything.
>>Hey Nappy -
>>
>>We all debate these things as if they really matter, but it's just a means
>>to an end. Macs are great systems - the best comp is the one that serves
>>you best.
>>>
>>> PS how are the kids? You do have 2 if I recall?
>>> I remember when your first was born.
>>
>>We do - thanks for asking. They are doing great! Aidan is 6 and in
>>kindergarten, and Bren is 19 months - both are a lot of fun - sweet kids.
>>How's your family? How are you?
>>
>>Regards,
>>Dedric
>>>
>>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>> Hey Nappy - first I'm just posting as a friendly comparison of
>>>> perspectives,
>>>> not a one is "better" than the other debate, just to be sure you don't
>>>> misunderstand my intent, or think that I'm trying to degrade the value
> of
>>> a
>>>> Mac - great systems and nice design on a lot of levels. :-)
>>>>
>>>> The only software I saw in the Apple store config was optional - iLife,
>>> etc,
>>>> and not included in the $2499. (Bluetooth, etc. also additional).
>>>> Doesn't
>>>> really leave much, if anything different from what comes with Windows
> XP.
>>>> Sure, iPhoto, iMovie are nicer than Windows, but I don't use those at
> all
>>> as
>>>> they are really just home user apps anyway.
>>>>
>>>> Software advantage depends on what you need it for - for Logic, there's
>>> no
>>>> other choice. If it's for home use, or even just buying off the shelf,
>>> then
>>>> preference really has everything to do with it.
>>>>
>>>> I agree on PCI slots, hardware, etc. that's my big reason for staying
> with
>>>> PCs, that and they are just easier to use as sample library farms (and
>>>> multiple PCs also certainly work fine with a Mac/Logic as the main
>>>> sequencer/host).
>>>>
>>>> Actually for the $90 saved, I would also be getting higher quality RAM
> (at
>>>> least based on what past models have used), possibly a better hard
>>>> drive,
>>>> more PCI slots, and more options on the motherboard out of the box, but
>>>> yeah, it's only really relevant for guys like me that try to get the
> most
>>>> out of it for a specific purpose. And yes it is in a pro use where the
>>>> extra 5-10% can make a difference - even spending an extra $90 or so
> I could
>>>> get 2G which is a minimum for what I do - to add an extra 1G it's an
> extra
>>>> $299 (assuming the buyer would want to go DIY to save $200).
>>>>
>>>> Of course that doesn't make the Mac any less of a pro solution - it's
> a
>>>> great solution.
>>>>
>>>> It's preference - that's all I'm saying. There aren't stark contrasts
> that
>>>> often seem to be purported in these threads. For most people it's
>>>> shades
>>> of
>>>> silicon and grey; but for some users, those shades are much more than
> a
>>> $90
>>>> difference or a half day spent building a system.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Dedric
>>>>
>>>> On 1/14/07 9:57 PM, in article 45aafba9$1@linux, "Nappy"
>>>> <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dedric,
>>>>> If you add all the software that comes with it and the elegant design
>>> plus
>>>>> the fact that you can run both OSX and XP and you don't have to build
>>> it
>>>>> makes
>>>>> up for the 90 plus dollars you save. I'm just saying it makes sense
> for
>>> a
>>>>> Pro to buy.
>>>>> You can do what you want,but you can't deny that its a good value. I'm
>>> not
>>>>> a die
>>>>> hard Mac person,in fact I'm going to build a PC to run PARIS on,it
>>>>> makes
>>>>> more sense.
>>>>> PC motherboards still offer PCI slots,and buying an old Mac that boots
>>> to
>>>>> OS9 is a step backwards. All I'm saying is don't let your feelings
>>>>> about
>>>>> Steve Jobs stop you from making a move to a Mac if it gives you more
>>>>> options.
>>>>> Lets face it,Thad and James represent two extremes of opinions,I'm
> talking
>>>>> about options as far as
>>>>> software goes,yes hardware wise PC's have more options,but as was
>>>>> already
>>>>> stated
>>>>> they both have the same or some of the same hardware so I give the Mac
>>> the
>>>>> advantage to Mac for software options. Thats My point.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is saving 90 plus dollars worth it?
>>>>>
>>>>> respect
>>>>> Nappy
>>>>> PS please respond
>>>>>
>>>>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/14/07 8:48 PM, in article 45aaeb8d$1@linux, "Nappy"
>>>>>> <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> You see,Thad has still not address the desktop Mac which have 2 Duel
>>> core
>>>>>>> Xeon
>>>>>>> prosessors for $2499,try building one of them for cheaper,ask Chris
>>> Ludwig
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> if he can build one with the same specs for cheaper. I like Macs
>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Nappy -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From Newegg.com,
>>>>>> dual 2.66 Xeon
>>>>>> Gigabyte server motherboard,
>>>>>> 1G Corsair DDR2 Ram (2x512),
>>>>>> 250G Western Digital SATA 3G drive
>>>>>> NVidia GeForce 7300 256M card
>>>>>> Sony DVD/CD combo drive (+/- DVDR), 16x
>>>>>> Antec power supply
>>>>>> Coolermaster case
>>>>>> Windows XP Pro SP2 with free upgrade to Vista:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> $2356 shipped.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not sure what motherboard or drives Apple uses - I think our last Mac
>>>>>> used Samsung. Memory and DVD/CD drive - also not sure. So I may
>>>>>> have
>>> spent
>>>>>> more than necessary on this example. Apple also probably gets a bulk
>>> rate
>>>>>> on cpus so that can save a little over paying $700 each as an
>>>>>> individual
>>>>>> buyer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> fwiw....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
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| Re: To add fuel to the fire [message #78438 is a reply to message #78401] |
Mon, 15 January 2007 16:24 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
---=_linux45ac0d1a
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>"Nappy" <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>
>>
>>You see,Thad has still not address the desktop Mac which have 2 Duel core
>>Xeon
>>prosessors for $2499,try building one of them for cheaper,ask Chris Ludwig
>>
>>if he can build one with the same specs for cheaper.
>
>That has zero to do with what I posted originally. My point was that I have
>heard for YEARS that Apple somehow uses these super high grade components
>that make their hardware more expensive. I haven't had to set up a Mac in
>a few years, and of course the PowerPC versions were comparatively opaque
>unless I would go to the trouble of putting Yellow Dog on them. Which I
didn't.
>But, because a co-workers' kid wanted to play a Windows game on his Macbook
>I had a chance to look at what kind of hardware is in a $1400 Apple laptop.
>The answer is pretty much the same stuff that's in a $750 Dell laptop, give
>or take a copy of iLife and a web cam on the Mac and a bigger screen on
the
>Dell.
>
>There are plenty of arguments for owning a Mac, the biggest one being personal
>preference. I was only seeking to put another of them to bed, that they
use
>bending end components that put their hardware in another class than what
>I use. Quite simply, they don't, and the move to generic Intel hardware
makes
>that quite clear.
>
>TCB
Not to worry! you can get an IT guy to upgrade the Dell lap top with a video
camera! LOL!
http://guides.macrumors.com/images/4/4b/GetAMaciSight.png
>
>I like Macs because
>>like it
>>or not they have software that I use that only runs on a Mac and I can
run
>>any
>>software that runs on XP on it as well and from were i sit thats makes
good
>>sense to me. Now if they come out with a PC version of Aperture and Logic
>>then I'll get
>>a PC. Sure I'd like to run OSX on a PC,but hating Steve Jobs is not going
>>to stop me
>>from using the software I want. Remember the old saying,"Find the software
>>you want to use and pick the platform that supports it" The Mac supports
>>both
>>platforms.
>>
>>respect
>>Nappy
>>
>>"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>>How many tracks can that webcam record and play back?
>>>
>>>"Nappy" <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote in message news:45aa864c$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> And a web cam built in it.
>>>>
>>>> "Nappy" <mgrant01@san.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>The Macbooks have core duo 2 cpu's,try again.
>>>>>
>>>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us& cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=bndwe4j&s=bsd
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Core Duo laptop, 15.4" screen, DVD burner, 1 GB memory. $750
>>>>>>
>>>>>>There are better deals on occasion but this is the current sweet spot.
>>>> I
>>>>>>set up two of them last week.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>TCB
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hey Thad! I was checking Dell's prices, I didn't see any Core 2 Duo
>>lap
>>>>>>tops
>>>>>>>for $750.00. I could be wrong, but it looks like they start at $1299.
>>>>>
>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>wonder what they would cost similarly configured?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I think Apple typically makes more margin per unit, well that's what
>>
>>>>>>>I've
>>>>>>>read. As a dealer margins were always tight. In the past Apple
>>>>>>>manufactured
>>>>>>>proprietary hardware, and they just didn't sell the number of units
>>that
>>>>>>>PC manufactures did to have low prices. With Intel, it's a whole
new
>>>> ball
>>>>>>>game for Apple. I would think Dell still buys 10 times as much stuff
>>>> from
>>>>>>>Intel as Apple does. Dell probably gets better pricing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I have seen Dell do a thousand dollar rebate on their lap tops. When
>>>> that
>>>>>>>happens, Apple will not be able to compete.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/notebooks ?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>James
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>That's right, Jamie, I finally noticed that Apple is using Intel
>>>>>>>>processors.
>>>>>>>>You know me, never up on much in that wild and crazy world of tech.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>My point, which I stated fairly clearly, was that I have often heard
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>argument made that the reason Apple hardware is pricier than an
>>>>>>>>equivalent
>>>>>>>>Dell or home build is because they use superior components in their
>>
>>>>>>>>machines.
>>>>>>>>That's nonsense. Having seen their 'low end' laptop which runs about
>>>> $1300
>>>>>>>>I can say for sure that aside from the slot loading optical drive
>and
>>>>>a
>>>>>>>nice
>>>>>>>>black case it's a slight downgrade from a $750 Dell. If the optical
>>
>>>>>>>>drive
>>>>>>>>and case are worth 45% more to you, than that's fine.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>BTW - Debian Etch is relatively easy get working on these. If I had
>>
>>>>>>>>more
>>>>>>>>money than sense I'd get one as a Debian machine because it's black.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>TCB
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Where's the fuel? You mean you finally noticed that Apple has gone
>>to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Intel for hardware designs, and onboard graphics on the low end
>>>>>>>>>models?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>This is pretty old news. When Apple announced the Intel switch more
>>>> than
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>a year ago, this was one of the reasons given. The Macbook is their
>>>> low
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>end laptop, and probably the biggest cost reduction was using the
>>>>>>>>>onboard graphics instead of something snazzier. The Macbook Pro
has
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>snazzier stuff, but it's still off the shelf with OSX drivers. Apple
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>doesn't and hasn't ever AFAIK developed their own graphics chipsets.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Well heck, they don't develop their own CPUs either, although I
>>>>>>>>>imagine
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>they give input to those companies. Up until last year Apple chose
>>>>>>>>>different CPU models than were blessed by Microsoft, and tried to
>>gain
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>an advantage from the differences. Now they are using the same CPUs
>>>> that
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Microsoft likes, so any advantage is going to be from design and
>
>>>>>>>>>software.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I like Apple's desktop case design. Really easy to get into and
change
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>memory, drives, etc.; quiet and cool running airflow. The laptop
>
>>>>>>>>>designs
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>have varied at accessibility, sometimes compromising for thinness.
>>For
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>example my PowerBook is easy to access for memory upgrades but not
>>for
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>HD upgrades. That may have changed in the new ones.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Mac laptop sales are rising, other manufacturers are copying their
>>
>>>>>>>>>form
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>factor, but if you ever buy one (other than overpaying for a Macbook
>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>someone else, and then complaining about it) I'll be amazed. Sorry
>>you
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>had to subject yourself to working on a Mac today, but even sorrier
>>>> you
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>had to infect it with XP. ;^)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>TCB wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> So, I had to set up XP on a Mac Book today. The child of an
>>>>>>>>>> important
>>>>>>>>person
>>>>>>>>>> on my office had one and, surprise, most of the games a 12 year
>>old
>>>>>>likes
>>>>>>>>>> to play don't have Mac versions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So, once and for all I can put to rest the notion that Apple
>>>>>>>>>> hardware
>>>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>>>> somehow 'super special' and thus justifies the higher price. Intel
>>>>>chipset,
>>>>>>>>>> Intel integrated graphics, Atheros wireless, Marvell NIC, generic
>>>> firewire
>>>>>>>>>> controller. The CD/DVD burner was the slot loading kind, so that's
>>>>>slightly
>>>>>>>>>> cool (unless you want to pop out the CD before the machine boots
>>
>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>it's
>>>>>>>>>> nice to have a physical switch), but that's about the only thing
>>
>>>>>>>>>> unusual
>>>>>>>>>> about the hardware. If you were to show me the XP device list
for
>>>> a
>>>>>>Mac
>>>>>>>>Book
>>>>>>>>>> and the same list from a Dell 640m (two of which I've also set
>up
>>>> recently)
>>>>>>>>>> I would have given a _slight_ preference to the Dell, mostly because
>>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>>uses
>>>>>>>>>> an Intel wireless chipset that does b/g/n and bluetooth on one
>chip,
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>>> I've had very good luck with those wireless cards. A 640m also
>has
>>>>>a
>>>>>>>larger
>>>>>>>>>> screed and costs around $750.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In better news, I wound up on modular synth dreamland for about
>>five
>>>>>>>hours
>>>>>>>>>> last night, wiring up my John Bowen Pro Wave into modular patches
>>>> and
>>>>>>>>using
>>>>>>>>>> it to feed vocoders and all of the things that make computer
>>>>>>>>>> recording
>>>>>>>>worth
>>>>>>>>>> it. Then I forgot to save the presets, but hey, that's the way
>it
>>>> goes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> TCB
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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