Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » dj about your idea
| dj about your idea [message #74932] |
Fri, 27 October 2006 06:16  |
chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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Hi DJ,
I guess what we are talking about is two things:
1. An ASIO host application with let's say 64 ins and 64 outs. This app
would also be a VST host application that would let you insert plugs on each
of the 64 ins. It would add up the total latency on each input, buffer the
output to some consistent user entered amount, and send it out the output.
The latency for every channel would end up being exactly the same user entered
amount.
2. A simple VST plugin that would allow you to select an input and output
ASIO channel. That's all that one would do. This plug wouldn't have any
latency of it's own.
So my question is..... Is there any other possible use for such a setup?
I would be willing to get involved in an open source freeware, ad/donation
supported project for this if there was.
Chuck
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| Re: dj about your idea [message #74941 is a reply to message #74940] |
Fri, 27 October 2006 08:23  |
chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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Hi Alex,
It might be, but I'm looking at a few other angles:
1. The plugin code in paris is ancient and it runs lots of newer plugs poorly,
with weird side effects, or not at all. This would be an opportunity to run
the plugs in a modern environment, and get latency compensation
2. We don't have access to the VST/DX plug-in code, or any other paris application
code, so I can't really produce a delay compensator.
3. Since there are other, but more limited apps like this out there that
act as effects, instrument hosts, i figured that there might be an audience
outside of the paris community that could use it too. That's the only way
I would really take on something like this.
Chuck
"alex plasko" <alex.plasko@snet.net> wrote:
>Chuck
>would an auto latency compensation plug in be easier to build?Im no software
>engineer but isnt that just a ping?
>
>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:454206a9$1@linux...
>>
>> Hi DJ,
>>
>> I guess what we are talking about is two things:
>>
>> 1. An ASIO host application with let's say 64 ins and 64 outs. This app
>> would also be a VST host application that would let you insert plugs on
>> each
>> of the 64 ins. It would add up the total latency on each input, buffer
>> the
>> output to some consistent user entered amount, and send it out the output.
>> The latency for every channel would end up being exactly the same user
>> entered
>> amount.
>>
>> 2. A simple VST plugin that would allow you to select an input and output
>> ASIO channel. That's all that one would do. This plug wouldn't have
any
>> latency of it's own.
>>
>> So my question is..... Is there any other possible use for such a setup?
>> I would be willing to get involved in an open source freeware, ad/donation
>> supported project for this if there was.
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: dj about your idea [message #74942 is a reply to message #74938] |
Fri, 27 October 2006 08:33 |
Nil
Messages: 245
Registered: March 2007
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Senior Member |
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"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>
>Well, the real question is if this has any use *outside* of paris users.
>It would need to have some sort of audience beyond the paris community to
>get the kind of numbers that make ad revenue possible.
Check, what if you included, as part of the whole package,
a few plugins as well (maybe a basic selection of dynamics,
reverb, EQ, modulation stuff, etc. - just some different flavors
of those types of things)? That way it could give anyone &
everyone a reason to try it beyond just the routing options.
Are any of the plugins you ported over port-able to VST? If so,
you could use some of those.
Neil
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| Re: dj about your idea [message #74943 is a reply to message #74941] |
Fri, 27 October 2006 08:50 |
AlexPlasko
Messages: 211
Registered: September 2006
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Senior Member |
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I hear that. I wouldnt want to work for next to nothing either.maybe someday
edmund will have a change of heart and i can dust off the paris rig again.if
i live that long :-)"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message
news:4542245c$1@linux...
>
> Hi Alex,
>
> It might be, but I'm looking at a few other angles:
>
> 1. The plugin code in paris is ancient and it runs lots of newer plugs
> poorly,
> with weird side effects, or not at all. This would be an opportunity to
> run
> the plugs in a modern environment, and get latency compensation
>
> 2. We don't have access to the VST/DX plug-in code, or any other paris
> application
> code, so I can't really produce a delay compensator.
>
> 3. Since there are other, but more limited apps like this out there that
> act as effects, instrument hosts, i figured that there might be an
> audience
> outside of the paris community that could use it too. That's the only way
> I would really take on something like this.
>
> Chuck
>
> "alex plasko" <alex.plasko@snet.net> wrote:
>>Chuck
>>would an auto latency compensation plug in be easier to build?Im no
>>software
>
>>engineer but isnt that just a ping?
>>
>>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:454206a9$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Hi DJ,
>>>
>>> I guess what we are talking about is two things:
>>>
>>> 1. An ASIO host application with let's say 64 ins and 64 outs. This app
>>> would also be a VST host application that would let you insert plugs on
>
>>> each
>>> of the 64 ins. It would add up the total latency on each input, buffer
>
>>> the
>>> output to some consistent user entered amount, and send it out the
>>> output.
>>> The latency for every channel would end up being exactly the same user
>
>>> entered
>>> amount.
>>>
>>> 2. A simple VST plugin that would allow you to select an input and
>>> output
>>> ASIO channel. That's all that one would do. This plug wouldn't have
> any
>>> latency of it's own.
>>>
>>> So my question is..... Is there any other possible use for such a setup?
>>> I would be willing to get involved in an open source freeware,
>>> ad/donation
>>> supported project for this if there was.
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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| Re: dj about your idea [message #74945 is a reply to message #74932] |
Fri, 27 October 2006 08:53 |
animix
Messages: 356
Registered: September 2006
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Senior Member |
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Chuck,
There is already an ASIO host application that has unlimited I/O so #2 has
been covered. It's not simple though
http://www.plogue.com/index.php?option=content&task=view &id=21&Itemid=35
I haven't tried it yet but will likely get around to it over the weekend or
early next week. I was thinking of something that could interface directly
with Paris so that the UAD-1 cards could work directly on the Paris DAW
without having to interface via ADAT on a second workstation. Old Magma's
are cheap these days and having the cards in the Paris workstation running
Win XP without having to interface with a second DAW using lightpipe would
be ideal. this is why I was thinking of Wires. As far as an ASIO driver,
under the "Paris DAW being host" scenario, without an efficient ASIO driver,
for Paris, I don't see this happening. To tell you the truth, I haven't used
the Paris ASIO driver in years. I wonder if it would work with a VST host
like Forte or Chainer? I do remember some latency with this driver, but it's
been a long time. Anyway, as far as third party uses for the VST host you
are proposing in #1 ...............I honestly don't know unless they were
wanting to stream from a DAW with no latency compensation to a digital
mixer. I don't think there are any DAWs, other than Paris left on earth that
don't have latency compensation.
If you decide you want to do this, I will support your efforts 100%.
Thanks,
DJ
"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:454206a9$1@linux...
>
> Hi DJ,
>
> I guess what we are talking about is two things:
>
> 1. An ASIO host application with let's say 64 ins and 64 outs. This app
> would also be a VST host application that would let you insert plugs on
each
> of the 64 ins. It would add up the total latency on each input, buffer
the
> output to some consistent user entered amount, and send it out the output.
> The latency for every channel would end up being exactly the same user
entered
> amount.
>
> 2. A simple VST plugin that would allow you to select an input and output
> ASIO channel. That's all that one would do. This plug wouldn't have any
> latency of it's own.
>
> So my question is..... Is there any other possible use for such a setup?
> I would be willing to get involved in an open source freeware,
ad/donation
> supported project for this if there was.
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
>
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| Re: dj about your idea [message #74946 is a reply to message #74945] |
Fri, 27 October 2006 09:15 |
brandon[2]
Messages: 380
Registered: June 2006
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Senior Member |
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Is the reason for all of this to basically make up for the need of native
inserts on the PARIS AUX busses?
Brandon
"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45422b7b@linux...
> Chuck,
>
> There is already an ASIO host application that has unlimited I/O so #2 has
> been covered. It's not simple though
> http://www.plogue.com/index.php?option=content&task=view &id=21&Itemid=35
> I haven't tried it yet but will likely get around to it over the weekend
or
> early next week. I was thinking of something that could interface directly
> with Paris so that the UAD-1 cards could work directly on the Paris DAW
> without having to interface via ADAT on a second workstation. Old Magma's
> are cheap these days and having the cards in the Paris workstation running
> Win XP without having to interface with a second DAW using lightpipe would
> be ideal. this is why I was thinking of Wires. As far as an ASIO driver,
> under the "Paris DAW being host" scenario, without an efficient ASIO
driver,
> for Paris, I don't see this happening. To tell you the truth, I haven't
used
> the Paris ASIO driver in years. I wonder if it would work with a VST host
> like Forte or Chainer? I do remember some latency with this driver, but
it's
> been a long time. Anyway, as far as third party uses for the VST host you
> are proposing in #1 ...............I honestly don't know unless they were
> wanting to stream from a DAW with no latency compensation to a digital
> mixer. I don't think there are any DAWs, other than Paris left on earth
that
> don't have latency compensation.
>
> If you decide you want to do this, I will support your efforts 100%.
>
> Thanks,
>
> DJ
>
> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:454206a9$1@linux...
> >
> > Hi DJ,
> >
> > I guess what we are talking about is two things:
> >
> > 1. An ASIO host application with let's say 64 ins and 64 outs. This app
> > would also be a VST host application that would let you insert plugs on
> each
> > of the 64 ins. It would add up the total latency on each input, buffer
> the
> > output to some consistent user entered amount, and send it out the
output.
> > The latency for every channel would end up being exactly the same user
> entered
> > amount.
> >
> > 2. A simple VST plugin that would allow you to select an input and
output
> > ASIO channel. That's all that one would do. This plug wouldn't have
any
> > latency of it's own.
> >
> > So my question is..... Is there any other possible use for such a setup?
> > I would be willing to get involved in an open source freeware,
> ad/donation
> > supported project for this if there was.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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| Re: dj about your idea [message #74947 is a reply to message #74946] |
Fri, 27 October 2006 09:20 |
animix
Messages: 356
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
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Not really. The need for this (for me) is to be able to work in a less
chaotic way when using UAD-1 plugins with Paris. To be nudging tracks around
all over the *^%$%$^&* place and trying to keep up with what whas nudged
where and how much drives me even crazier than the crap I'm dealing with
trying to find a wyay not to do it....plus, it makes using the now line as a
visual reference in the editor a useless endeavor because the latency is so
extreme that the track is practically off the screen by the time you hear
it.
;o)
"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:45422e76$1@linux...
> Is the reason for all of this to basically make up for the need of native
> inserts on the PARIS AUX busses?
>
> Brandon
>
>
>
> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45422b7b@linux...
> > Chuck,
> >
> > There is already an ASIO host application that has unlimited I/O so #2
has
> > been covered. It's not simple though
> > http://www.plogue.com/index.php?option=content&task=view &id=21&Itemid=35
> > I haven't tried it yet but will likely get around to it over the weekend
> or
> > early next week. I was thinking of something that could interface
directly
> > with Paris so that the UAD-1 cards could work directly on the Paris DAW
> > without having to interface via ADAT on a second workstation. Old
Magma's
> > are cheap these days and having the cards in the Paris workstation
running
> > Win XP without having to interface with a second DAW using lightpipe
would
> > be ideal. this is why I was thinking of Wires. As far as an ASIO driver,
> > under the "Paris DAW being host" scenario, without an efficient ASIO
> driver,
> > for Paris, I don't see this happening. To tell you the truth, I haven't
> used
> > the Paris ASIO driver in years. I wonder if it would work with a VST
host
> > like Forte or Chainer? I do remember some latency with this driver, but
> it's
> > been a long time. Anyway, as far as third party uses for the VST host
you
> > are proposing in #1 ...............I honestly don't know unless they
were
> > wanting to stream from a DAW with no latency compensation to a digital
> > mixer. I don't think there are any DAWs, other than Paris left on earth
> that
> > don't have latency compensation.
> >
> > If you decide you want to do this, I will support your efforts 100%.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > DJ
> >
> > "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:454206a9$1@linux...
> > >
> > > Hi DJ,
> > >
> > > I guess what we are talking about is two things:
> > >
> > > 1. An ASIO host application with let's say 64 ins and 64 outs. This
app
> > > would also be a VST host application that would let you insert plugs
on
> > each
> > > of the 64 ins. It would add up the total latency on each input,
buffer
> > the
> > > output to some consistent user entered amount, and send it out the
> output.
> > > The latency for every channel would end up being exactly the same
user
> > entered
> > > amount.
> > >
> > > 2. A simple VST plugin that would allow you to select an input and
> output
> > > ASIO channel. That's all that one would do. This plug wouldn't have
> any
> > > latency of it's own.
> > >
> > > So my question is..... Is there any other possible use for such a
setup?
> > > I would be willing to get involved in an open source freeware,
> > ad/donation
> > > supported project for this if there was.
> > >
> > > Chuck
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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| Re: dj about your idea [message #74949 is a reply to message #74947] |
Fri, 27 October 2006 10:00 |
brandon[2]
Messages: 380
Registered: June 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
So if there was an automatic delay compensator and Native inserts on the AUX
busses everyone would be happy?
Brandon
"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:454231d8@linux...
> Not really. The need for this (for me) is to be able to work in a less
> chaotic way when using UAD-1 plugins with Paris. To be nudging tracks
around
> all over the *^%$%$^&* place and trying to keep up with what whas nudged
> where and how much drives me even crazier than the crap I'm dealing with
> trying to find a wyay not to do it....plus, it makes using the now line as
a
> visual reference in the editor a useless endeavor because the latency is
so
> extreme that the track is practically off the screen by the time you hear
> it.
>
> ;o)
>
> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:45422e76$1@linux...
> > Is the reason for all of this to basically make up for the need of
native
> > inserts on the PARIS AUX busses?
> >
> > Brandon
> >
> >
> >
> > "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45422b7b@linux...
> > > Chuck,
> > >
> > > There is already an ASIO host application that has unlimited I/O so #2
> has
> > > been covered. It's not simple though
> > >
http://www.plogue.com/index.php?option=content&task=view &id=21&Itemid=35
> > > I haven't tried it yet but will likely get around to it over the
weekend
> > or
> > > early next week. I was thinking of something that could interface
> directly
> > > with Paris so that the UAD-1 cards could work directly on the Paris
DAW
> > > without having to interface via ADAT on a second workstation. Old
> Magma's
> > > are cheap these days and having the cards in the Paris workstation
> running
> > > Win XP without having to interface with a second DAW using lightpipe
> would
> > > be ideal. this is why I was thinking of Wires. As far as an ASIO
driver,
> > > under the "Paris DAW being host" scenario, without an efficient ASIO
> > driver,
> > > for Paris, I don't see this happening. To tell you the truth, I
haven't
> > used
> > > the Paris ASIO driver in years. I wonder if it would work with a VST
> host
> > > like Forte or Chainer? I do remember some latency with this driver,
but
> > it's
> > > been a long time. Anyway, as far as third party uses for the VST host
> you
> > > are proposing in #1 ...............I honestly don't know unless they
> were
> > > wanting to stream from a DAW with no latency compensation to a digital
> > > mixer. I don't think there are any DAWs, other than Paris left on
earth
> > that
> > > don't have latency compensation.
> > >
> > > If you decide you want to do this, I will support your efforts 100%.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > DJ
> > >
> > > "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:454206a9$1@linux...
> > > >
> > > > Hi DJ,
> > > >
> > > > I guess what we are talking about is two things:
> > > >
> > > > 1. An ASIO host application with let's say 64 ins and 64 outs. This
> app
> > > > would also be a VST host application that would let you insert plugs
> on
> > > each
> > > > of the 64 ins. It would add up the total latency on each input,
> buffer
> > > the
> > > > output to some consistent user entered amount, and send it out the
> > output.
> > > > The latency for every channel would end up being exactly the same
> user
> > > entered
> > > > amount.
> > > >
> > > > 2. A simple VST plugin that would allow you to select an input and
> > output
> > > > ASIO channel. That's all that one would do. This plug wouldn't
have
> > any
> > > > latency of it's own.
> > > >
> > > > So my question is..... Is there any other possible use for such a
> setup?
> > > > I would be willing to get involved in an open source freeware,
> > > ad/donation
> > > > supported project for this if there was.
> > > >
> > > > Chuck
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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| Re: dj about your idea [message #74951 is a reply to message #74945] |
Fri, 27 October 2006 10:40 |
chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Dj,
I think you are misunderstanding a little :-) The asio streams in this "new"
asio host would be all virtual and not require any hardware or adats interfaces
at all.
The "new" vst plug when used on a channel in paris would let you select a
route in and back out of the "new" asio host.
The "new" host would accept real vsts and delay them to a specific user entered,
consistent threshold, then feed the output back to the same "new" vst plug
in paris.
It would be hardwareless.
Chuck
Chuck
"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
>Chuck,
>
>There is already an ASIO host application that has unlimited I/O so #2 has
>been covered. It's not simple though
> http://www.plogue.com/index.php?option=content&task=view &id=21&Itemid=35
>I haven't tried it yet but will likely get around to it over the weekend
or
>early next week. I was thinking of something that could interface directly
>with Paris so that the UAD-1 cards could work directly on the Paris DAW
>without having to interface via ADAT on a second workstation. Old Magma's
>are cheap these days and having the cards in the Paris workstation running
>Win XP without having to interface with a second DAW using lightpipe would
>be ideal. this is why I was thinking of Wires. As far as an ASIO driver,
>under the "Paris DAW being host" scenario, without an efficient ASIO driver,
>for Paris, I don't see this happening. To tell you the truth, I haven't
used
>the Paris ASIO driver in years. I wonder if it would work with a VST host
>like Forte or Chainer? I do remember some latency with this driver, but
it's
>been a long time. Anyway, as far as third party uses for the VST host you
>are proposing in #1 ...............I honestly don't know unless they were
>wanting to stream from a DAW with no latency compensation to a digital
>mixer. I don't think there are any DAWs, other than Paris left on earth
that
>don't have latency compensation.
>
>If you decide you want to do this, I will support your efforts 100%.
>
>Thanks,
>
>DJ
>
>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:454206a9$1@linux...
>>
>> Hi DJ,
>>
>> I guess what we are talking about is two things:
>>
>> 1. An ASIO host application with let's say 64 ins and 64 outs. This app
>> would also be a VST host application that would let you insert plugs on
>each
>> of the 64 ins. It would add up the total latency on each input, buffer
>the
>> output to some consistent user entered amount, and send it out the output.
>> The latency for every channel would end up being exactly the same user
>entered
>> amount.
>>
>> 2. A simple VST plugin that would allow you to select an input and output
>> ASIO channel. That's all that one would do. This plug wouldn't have
any
>> latency of it's own.
>>
>> So my question is..... Is there any other possible use for such a setup?
>> I would be willing to get involved in an open source freeware,
>ad/donation
>> supported project for this if there was.
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: dj about your idea [message #74952 is a reply to message #74949] |
Fri, 27 October 2006 10:41 |
chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
No because there are tons of plugs that just DONT run in paris, let alone
vstis!
Chuck
"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>So if there was an automatic delay compensator and Native inserts on the
AUX
>busses everyone would be happy?
>
>Brandon
>
>
>
>
>"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:454231d8@linux...
>> Not really. The need for this (for me) is to be able to work in a less
>> chaotic way when using UAD-1 plugins with Paris. To be nudging tracks
>around
>> all over the *^%$%$^&* place and trying to keep up with what whas nudged
>> where and how much drives me even crazier than the crap I'm dealing with
>> trying to find a wyay not to do it....plus, it makes using the now line
as
>a
>> visual reference in the editor a useless endeavor because the latency
is
>so
>> extreme that the track is practically off the screen by the time you hear
>> it.
>>
>> ;o)
>>
>> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:45422e76$1@linux...
>> > Is the reason for all of this to basically make up for the need of
>native
>> > inserts on the PARIS AUX busses?
>> >
>> > Brandon
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45422b7b@linux...
>> > > Chuck,
>> > >
>> > > There is already an ASIO host application that has unlimited I/O so
#2
>> has
>> > > been covered. It's not simple though
>> > >
> http://www.plogue.com/index.php?option=content&task=view &id=21&Itemid=35
>> > > I haven't tried it yet but will likely get around to it over the
>weekend
>> > or
>> > > early next week. I was thinking of something that could interface
>> directly
>> > > with Paris so that the UAD-1 cards could work directly on the Paris
>DAW
>> > > without having to interface via ADAT on a second workstation. Old
>> Magma's
>> > > are cheap these days and having the cards in the Paris workstation
>> running
>> > > Win XP without having to interface with a second DAW using lightpipe
>> would
>> > > be ideal. this is why I was thinking of Wires. As far as an ASIO
>driver,
>> > > under the "Paris DAW being host" scenario, without an efficient ASIO
>> > driver,
>> > > for Paris, I don't see this happening. To tell you the truth, I
>haven't
>> > used
>> > > the Paris ASIO driver in years. I wonder if it would work with a VST
>> host
>> > > like Forte or Chainer? I do remember some latency with this driver,
>but
>> > it's
>> > > been a long time. Anyway, as far as third party uses for the VST
host
>> you
>> > > are proposing in #1 ...............I honestly don't know unless they
>> were
>> > > wanting to stream from a DAW with no latency compensation to a digital
>> > > mixer. I don't think there are any DAWs, other than Paris left on
>earth
>> > that
>> > > don't have latency compensation.
>> > >
>> > > If you decide you want to do this, I will support your efforts 100%.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > >
>> > > DJ
>> > >
>> > > "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:454206a9$1@linux...
>> > > >
>> > > > Hi DJ,
>> > > >
>> > > > I guess what we are talking about is two things:
>> > > >
>> > > > 1. An ASIO host application with let's say 64 ins and 64 outs.
This
>> app
>> > > > would also be a VST host application that would let you insert plugs
>> on
>> > > each
>> > > > of the 64 ins. It would add up the total latency on each input,
>> buffer
>> > > the
>> > > > output to some consistent user entered amount, and send it out the
>> > output.
>> > > > The latency for every channel would end up being exactly the same
>> user
>> > > entered
>> > > > amount.
>> > > >
>> > > > 2. A simple VST plugin that would allow you to select an input and
>> > output
>> > > > ASIO channel. That's all that one would do. This plug wouldn't
>have
>> > any
>> > > > latency of it's own.
>> > > >
>> > > > So my question is..... Is there any other possible use for such
a
>> setup?
>> > > > I would be willing to get involved in an open source freeware,
>> > > ad/donation
>> > > > supported project for this if there was.
>> > > >
>> > > > Chuck
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: dj about your idea [message #74954 is a reply to message #74951] |
Fri, 27 October 2006 10:51 |
animix
Messages: 356
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Ahhh.....OK......so Paris would open this as a VST plugin? Can't we already
do that with chainer, etc?
"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:4542449d$1@linux...
>
> Dj,
>
> I think you are misunderstanding a little :-) The asio streams in this
"new"
> asio host would be all virtual and not require any hardware or adats
interfaces
> at all.
>
> The "new" vst plug when used on a channel in paris would let you select a
> route in and back out of the "new" asio host.
>
> The "new" host would accept real vsts and delay them to a specific user
entered,
> consistent threshold, then feed the output back to the same "new" vst plug
> in paris.
>
> It would be hardwareless.
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
> Chuck
> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
> >Chuck,
> >
> >There is already an ASIO host application that has unlimited I/O so #2
has
> >been covered. It's not simple though
> > http://www.plogue.com/index.php?option=content&task=view &id=21&Itemid=35
> >I haven't tried it yet but will likely get around to it over the weekend
> or
> >early next week. I was thinking of something that could interface
directly
> >with Paris so that the UAD-1 cards could work directly on the Paris DAW
> >without having to interface via ADAT on a second workstation. Old Magma's
> >are cheap these days and having the cards in the Paris workstation
running
> >Win XP without having to interface with a second DAW using lightpipe
would
> >be ideal. this is why I was thinking of Wires. As far as an ASIO driver,
> >under the "Paris DAW being host" scenario, without an efficient ASIO
driver,
> >for Paris, I don't see this happening. To tell you the truth, I haven't
> used
> >the Paris ASIO driver in years. I wonder if it would work with a VST host
> >like Forte or Chainer? I do remember some latency with this driver, but
> it's
> >been a long time. Anyway, as far as third party uses for the VST host
you
> >are proposing in #1 ...............I honestly don't know unless they were
> >wanting to stream from a DAW with no latency compensation to a digital
> >mixer. I don't think there are any DAWs, other than Paris left on earth
> that
> >don't have latency compensation.
> >
> >If you decide you want to do this, I will support your efforts 100%.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >DJ
> >
> >"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:454206a9$1@linux...
> >>
> >> Hi DJ,
> >>
> >> I guess what we are talking about is two things:
> >>
> >> 1. An ASIO host application with let's say 64 ins and 64 outs. This
app
> >> would also be a VST host application that would let you insert plugs on
> >each
> >> of the 64 ins. It would add up the total latency on each input, buffer
> >the
> >> output to some consistent user entered amount, and send it out the
output.
> >> The latency for every channel would end up being exactly the same user
> >entered
> >> amount.
> >>
> >> 2. A simple VST plugin that would allow you to select an input and
output
> >> ASIO channel. That's all that one would do. This plug wouldn't have
> any
> >> latency of it's own.
> >>
> >> So my question is..... Is there any other possible use for such a
setup?
> >> I would be willing to get involved in an open source freeware,
> >ad/donation
> >> supported project for this if there was.
> >>
> >> Chuck
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: dj about your idea [message #74955 is a reply to message #74954] |
Fri, 27 October 2006 10:52 |
animix
Messages: 356
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
DOH!!!!.....OK, the difference being that with this plug we ould compensate
latency?
"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:454246bc$1@linux...
> Ahhh.....OK......so Paris would open this as a VST plugin? Can't we
already
> do that with chainer, etc?
>
>
>
> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:4542449d$1@linux...
> >
> > Dj,
> >
> > I think you are misunderstanding a little :-) The asio streams in this
> "new"
> > asio host would be all virtual and not require any hardware or adats
> interfaces
> > at all.
> >
> > The "new" vst plug when used on a channel in paris would let you select
a
> > route in and back out of the "new" asio host.
> >
> > The "new" host would accept real vsts and delay them to a specific user
> entered,
> > consistent threshold, then feed the output back to the same "new" vst
plug
> > in paris.
> >
> > It would be hardwareless.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> >
> > Chuck
> > "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
> > >Chuck,
> > >
> > >There is already an ASIO host application that has unlimited I/O so #2
> has
> > >been covered. It's not simple though
> >
> http://www.plogue.com/index.php?option=content&task=view &id=21&Itemid=35
> > >I haven't tried it yet but will likely get around to it over the
weekend
> > or
> > >early next week. I was thinking of something that could interface
> directly
> > >with Paris so that the UAD-1 cards could work directly on the Paris DAW
> > >without having to interface via ADAT on a second workstation. Old
Magma's
> > >are cheap these days and having the cards in the Paris workstation
> running
> > >Win XP without having to interface with a second DAW using lightpipe
> would
> > >be ideal. this is why I was thinking of Wires. As far as an ASIO
driver,
> > >under the "Paris DAW being host" scenario, without an efficient ASIO
> driver,
> > >for Paris, I don't see this happening. To tell you the truth, I haven't
> > used
> > >the Paris ASIO driver in years. I wonder if it would work with a VST
host
> > >like Forte or Chainer? I do remember some latency with this driver, but
> > it's
> > >been a long time. Anyway, as far as third party uses for the VST host
> you
> > >are proposing in #1 ...............I honestly don't know unless they
were
> > >wanting to stream from a DAW with no latency compensation to a digital
> > >mixer. I don't think there are any DAWs, other than Paris left on earth
> > that
> > >don't have latency compensation.
> > >
> > >If you decide you want to do this, I will support your efforts 100%.
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >
> > >DJ
> > >
> > >"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:454206a9$1@linux...
> > >>
> > >> Hi DJ,
> > >>
> > >> I guess what we are talking about is two things:
> > >>
> > >> 1. An ASIO host application with let's say 64 ins and 64 outs. This
> app
> > >> would also be a VST host application that would let you insert plugs
on
> > >each
> > >> of the 64 ins. It would add up the total latency on each input,
buffer
> > >the
> > >> output to some consistent user entered amount, and send it out the
> output.
> > >> The latency for every channel would end up being exactly the same
user
> > >entered
> > >> amount.
> > >>
> > >> 2. A simple VST plugin that would allow you to select an input and
> output
> > >> ASIO channel. That's all that one would do. This plug wouldn't have
> > any
> > >> latency of it's own.
> > >>
> > >> So my question is..... Is there any other possible use for such a
> setup?
> > >> I would be willing to get involved in an open source freeware,
> > >ad/donation
> > >> supported project for this if there was.
> > >>
> > >> Chuck
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: dj about your idea [message #74956 is a reply to message #74949] |
Fri, 27 October 2006 11:02 |
Rich[3]
Messages: 132
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
That's like asking my wife if I finish painting the Kitichen and cut the grass
can I watch all the games every Sunday for the rest of the year....
"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>So if there was an automatic delay compensator and Native inserts on the
AUX
>busses everyone would be happy?
>
>Brandon
>
>
>
>
>"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:454231d8@linux...
>> Not really. The need for this (for me) is to be able to work in a less
>> chaotic way when using UAD-1 plugins with Paris. To be nudging tracks
>around
>> all over the *^%$%$^&* place and trying to keep up with what whas nudged
>> where and how much drives me even crazier than the crap I'm dealing with
>> trying to find a wyay not to do it....plus, it makes using the now line
as
>a
>> visual reference in the editor a useless endeavor because the latency
is
>so
>> extreme that the track is practically off the screen by the time you hear
>> it.
>>
>> ;o)
>>
>> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:45422e76$1@linux...
>> > Is the reason for all of this to basically make up for the need of
>native
>> > inserts on the PARIS AUX busses?
>> >
>> > Brandon
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45422b7b@linux...
>> > > Chuck,
>> > >
>> > > There is already an ASIO host application that has unlimited I/O so
#2
>> has
>> > > been covered. It's not simple though
>> > >
> http://www.plogue.com/index.php?option=content&task=view &id=21&Itemid=35
>> > > I haven't tried it yet but will likely get around to it over the
>weekend
>> > or
>> > > early next week. I was thinking of something that could interface
>> directly
>> > > with Paris so that the UAD-1 cards could work directly on the Paris
>DAW
>> > > without having to interface via ADAT on a second workstation. Old
>> Magma's
>> > > are cheap these days and having the cards in the Paris workstation
>> running
>> > > Win XP without having to interface with a second DAW using lightpipe
>> would
>> > > be ideal. this is why I was thinking of Wires. As far as an ASIO
>driver,
>> > > under the "Paris DAW being host" scenario, without an efficient ASIO
>> > driver,
>> > > for Paris, I don't see this happening. To tell you the truth, I
>haven't
>> > used
>> > > the Paris ASIO driver in years. I wonder if it would work with a VST
>> host
>> > > like Forte or Chainer? I do remember some latency with this driver,
>but
>> > it's
>> > > been a long time. Anyway, as far as third party uses for the VST
host
>> you
>> > > are proposing in #1 ...............I honestly don't know unless they
>> were
>> > > wanting to stream from a DAW with no latency compensation to a digital
>> > > mixer. I don't think there are any DAWs, other than Paris left on
>earth
>> > that
>> > > don't have latency compensation.
>> > >
>> > > If you decide you want to do this, I will support your efforts 100%.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > >
>> > > DJ
>> > >
>> > > "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:454206a9$1@linux...
>> > > >
>> > > > Hi DJ,
>> > > >
>> > > > I guess what we are talking about is two things:
>> > > >
>> > > > 1. An ASIO host application with let's say 64 ins and 64 outs.
This
>> app
>> > > > would also be a VST host application that would let you insert plugs
>> on
>> > > each
>> > > > of the 64 ins. It would add up the total latency on each input,
>> buffer
>> > > the
>> > > > output to some consistent user entered amount, and send it out the
>> > output.
>> > > > The latency for every channel would end up being exactly the same
>> user
>> > > entered
>> > > > amount.
>> > > >
>> > > > 2. A simple VST plugin that would allow you to select an input and
>> > output
>> > > > ASIO channel. That's all that one would do. This plug wouldn't
>have
>> > any
>> > > > latency of it's own.
>> > > >
>> > > > So my question is..... Is there any other possible use for such
a
>> setup?
>> > > > I would be willing to get involved in an open source freeware,
>> > > ad/donation
>> > > > supported project for this if there was.
>> > > >
>> > > > Chuck
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: dj about your idea [message #74958 is a reply to message #74955] |
Fri, 27 October 2006 11:16 |
chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Well, there were three things going on.
1. I thought chainer didn't allow enough channels, or enough instances.
2. I thought the other VST hosts you were using required physical audio connections
(ie were not virtual) .
3. I thought the other hosts didn't have enough asio channels
"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
>DOH!!!!.....OK, the difference being that with this plug we ould compensate
>latency?
>
>
>"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:454246bc$1@linux...
>> Ahhh.....OK......so Paris would open this as a VST plugin? Can't we
>already
>> do that with chainer, etc?
>>
>>
>>
>> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:4542449d$1@linux...
>> >
>> > Dj,
>> >
>> > I think you are misunderstanding a little :-) The asio streams in this
>> "new"
>> > asio host would be all virtual and not require any hardware or adats
>> interfaces
>> > at all.
>> >
>> > The "new" vst plug when used on a channel in paris would let you select
>a
>> > route in and back out of the "new" asio host.
>> >
>> > The "new" host would accept real vsts and delay them to a specific user
>> entered,
>> > consistent threshold, then feed the output back to the same "new" vst
>plug
>> > in paris.
>> >
>> > It would be hardwareless.
>> >
>> > Chuck
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Chuck
>> > "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
>> > >Chuck,
>> > >
>> > >There is already an ASIO host application that has unlimited I/O so
#2
>> has
>> > >been covered. It's not simple though
>> >
>> http://www.plogue.com/index.php?option=content&task=view &id=21&Itemid=35
>> > >I haven't tried it yet but will likely get around to it over the
>weekend
>> > or
>> > >early next week. I was thinking of something that could interface
>> directly
>> > >with Paris so that the UAD-1 cards could work directly on the Paris
DAW
>> > >without having to interface via ADAT on a second workstation. Old
>Magma's
>> > >are cheap these days and having the cards in the Paris workstation
>> running
>> > >Win XP without having to interface with a second DAW using lightpipe
>> would
>> > >be ideal. this is why I was thinking of Wires. As far as an ASIO
>driver,
>> > >under the "Paris DAW being host" scenario, without an efficient ASIO
>> driver,
>> > >for Paris, I don't see this happening. To tell you the truth, I haven't
>> > used
>> > >the Paris ASIO driver in years. I wonder if it would work with a VST
>host
>> > >like Forte or Chainer? I do remember some latency with this driver,
but
>> > it's
>> > >been a long time. Anyway, as far as third party uses for the VST host
>> you
>> > >are proposing in #1 ...............I honestly don't know unless they
>were
>> > >wanting to stream from a DAW with no latency compensation to a digital
>> > >mixer. I don't think there are any DAWs, other than Paris left on earth
>> > that
>> > >don't have latency compensation.
>> > >
>> > >If you decide you want to do this, I will support your efforts 100%.
>> > >
>> > >Thanks,
>> > >
>> > >DJ
>> > >
>> > >"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:454206a9$1@linux...
>> > >>
>> > >> Hi DJ,
>> > >>
>> > >> I guess what we are talking about is two things:
>> > >>
>> > >> 1. An ASIO host application with let's say 64 ins and 64 outs. This
>> app
>> > >> would also be a VST host application that would let you insert plugs
>on
>> > >each
>> > >> of the 64 ins. It would add up the total latency on each input,
>buffer
>> > >the
>> > >> output to some consistent user entered amount, and send it out the
>> output.
>> > >> The latency for every channel would end up being exactly the same
>user
>> > >entered
>> > >> amount.
>> > >>
>> > >> 2. A simple VST plugin that would allow you to select an input and
>> output
>> > >> ASIO channel. That's all that one would do. This plug wouldn't
have
>> > any
>> > >> latency of it's own.
>> > >>
>> > >> So my question is..... Is there any other possible use for such a
>> setup?
>> > >> I would be willing to get involved in an open source freeware,
>> > >ad/donation
>> > >> supported project for this if there was.
>> > >>
>> > >> Chuck
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: dj about your idea [message #74961 is a reply to message #74958] |
Fri, 27 October 2006 12:38 |
Dimitrios
Messages: 1056
Registered: August 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Just to clear up things regarding Chuck's suggestion and ASIO.
Well
1)you will be needing another audio card that supports asio
i.e. Pulsar card with scope environement (which can acommodate 16adat channels,spdif,2
analog) Pulsar can give you 64 asio routing channels.
Now if Chuck's vst2asio plugin can "see" these channels (or less than 64
maybe 24 whatever) then if pulsar runs at 3ms asio the latency beetween pulsar
and Paris back and forth will be 6ms.
2) If you are gonna use Cubase on same computer with Paris you will be needing
either pulsar card or rme card on same computer with paris.
So vst2asio will see the cubase asio outputs and so audio can transfer back
and forth.
3) If you are gonna use also UAD1 cards there will be a big pci stress on
the machine.
I see only true benefit with a dsp card like Pulsar which has asio or any
other dsp card with asio like Emu or maybe the Nuende or Focusrite ...
If you don't need to use UAD1 on same computer I am sure with one asio audio
card cubase can be this way intergrated with Paris on same computer with
very small latency as so to bring in VSTI and other.
Just some thoughts...
Regards,
Dimitrios
"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>
>Well, there were three things going on.
>
>1. I thought chainer didn't allow enough channels, or enough instances.
>
>2. I thought the other VST hosts you were using required physical audio
connections
>(ie were not virtual) .
>
>3. I thought the other hosts didn't have enough asio channels
>
>"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
>>DOH!!!!.....OK, the difference being that with this plug we ould compensate
>>latency?
>>
>>
>>"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:454246bc$1@linux...
>>> Ahhh.....OK......so Paris would open this as a VST plugin? Can't we
>>already
>>> do that with chainer, etc?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:4542449d$1@linux...
>>> >
>>> > Dj,
>>> >
>>> > I think you are misunderstanding a little :-) The asio streams in this
>>> "new"
>>> > asio host would be all virtual and not require any hardware or adats
>>> interfaces
>>> > at all.
>>> >
>>> > The "new" vst plug when used on a channel in paris would let you select
>>a
>>> > route in and back out of the "new" asio host.
>>> >
>>> > The "new" host would accept real vsts and delay them to a specific
user
>>> entered,
>>> > consistent threshold, then feed the output back to the same "new" vst
>>plug
>>> > in paris.
>>> >
>>> > It would be hardwareless.
>>> >
>>> > Chuck
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Chuck
>>> > "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
>>> > >Chuck,
>>> > >
>>> > >There is already an ASIO host application that has unlimited I/O so
>#2
>>> has
>>> > >been covered. It's not simple though
>>> >
>>> http://www.plogue.com/index.php?option=content&task=view &id=21&Itemid=35
>>> > >I haven't tried it yet but will likely get around to it over the
>>weekend
>>> > or
>>> > >early next week. I was thinking of something that could interface
>>> directly
>>> > >with Paris so that the UAD-1 cards could work directly on the Paris
>DAW
>>> > >without having to interface via ADAT on a second workstation. Old
>>Magma's
>>> > >are cheap these days and having the cards in the Paris workstation
>>> running
>>> > >Win XP without having to interface with a second DAW using lightpipe
>>> would
>>> > >be ideal. this is why I was thinking of Wires. As far as an ASIO
>>driver,
>>> > >under the "Paris DAW being host" scenario, without an efficient ASIO
>>> driver,
>>> > >for Paris, I don't see this happening. To tell you the truth, I haven't
>>> > used
>>> > >the Paris ASIO driver in years. I wonder if it would work with a VST
>>host
>>> > >like Forte or Chainer? I do remember some latency with this driver,
>but
>>> > it's
>>> > >been a long time. Anyway, as far as third party uses for the VST
host
>>> you
>>> > >are proposing in #1 ...............I honestly don't know unless they
>>were
>>> > >wanting to stream from a DAW with no latency compensation to a digital
>>> > >mixer. I don't think there are any DAWs, other than Paris left on
earth
>>> > that
>>> > >don't have latency compensation.
>>> > >
>>> > >If you decide you want to do this, I will support your efforts 100%.
>>> > >
>>> > >Thanks,
>>> > >
>>> > >DJ
>>> > >
>>> > >"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:454206a9$1@linux...
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Hi DJ,
>>> > >>
>>> > >> I guess what we are talking about is two things:
>>> > >>
>>> > >> 1. An ASIO host application with let's say 64 ins and 64 outs.
This
>>> app
>>> > >> would also be a VST host application that would let you insert plugs
>>on
>>> > >each
>>> > >> of the 64 ins. It would add up the total latency on each input,
>>buffer
>>> > >the
>>> > >> output to some consistent user entered amount, and send it out the
>>> output.
>>> > >> The latency for every channel would end up being exactly the same
>>user
>>> > >entered
>>> > >> amount.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> 2. A simple VST plugin that would allow you to select an input and
>>> output
>>> > >> ASIO channel. That's all that one would do. This plug wouldn't
>have
>>> > any
>>> > >> latency of it's own.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> So my question is..... Is there any other possible use for such
a
>>> setup?
>>> > >> I would be willing to get involved in an open source freeware,
>>> > >ad/donation
>>> > >> supported project for this if there was.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Chuck
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: dj about your idea [message #74973 is a reply to message #74941] |
Fri, 27 October 2006 15:31 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I'm in.
AA
"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:4542245c$1@linux...
>
> Hi Alex,
>
> It might be, but I'm looking at a few other angles:
>
> 1. The plugin code in paris is ancient and it runs lots of newer plugs
> poorly,
> with weird side effects, or not at all. This would be an opportunity to
> run
> the plugs in a modern environment, and get latency compensation
>
> 2. We don't have access to the VST/DX plug-in code, or any other paris
> application
> code, so I can't really produce a delay compensator.
>
> 3. Since there are other, but more limited apps like this out there that
> act as effects, instrument hosts, i figured that there might be an
> audience
> outside of the paris community that could use it too. That's the only way
> I would really take on something like this.
>
> Chuck
>
> "alex plasko" <alex.plasko@snet.net> wrote:
>>Chuck
>>would an auto latency compensation plug in be easier to build?Im no
>>software
>
>>engineer but isnt that just a ping?
>>
>>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:454206a9$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Hi DJ,
>>>
>>> I guess what we are talking about is two things:
>>>
>>> 1. An ASIO host application with let's say 64 ins and 64 outs. This app
>>> would also be a VST host application that would let you insert plugs on
>
>>> each
>>> of the 64 ins. It would add up the total latency on each input, buffer
>
>>> the
>>> output to some consistent user entered amount, and send it out the
>>> output.
>>> The latency for every channel would end up being exactly the same user
>
>>> entered
>>> amount.
>>>
>>> 2. A simple VST plugin that would allow you to select an input and
>>> output
>>> ASIO channel. That's all that one would do. This plug wouldn't have
> any
>>> latency of it's own.
>>>
>>> So my question is..... Is there any other possible use for such a setup?
>>> I would be willing to get involved in an open source freeware,
>>> ad/donation
>>> supported project for this if there was.
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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| Re: dj about your idea [message #74974 is a reply to message #74951] |
Fri, 27 October 2006 15:34 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
would work over a network/firewire??
AA
"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:4542449d$1@linux...
>
> Dj,
>
> I think you are misunderstanding a little :-) The asio streams in this
> "new"
> asio host would be all virtual and not require any hardware or adats
> interfaces
> at all.
>
> The "new" vst plug when used on a channel in paris would let you select a
> route in and back out of the "new" asio host.
>
> The "new" host would accept real vsts and delay them to a specific user
> entered,
> consistent threshold, then feed the output back to the same "new" vst plug
> in paris.
>
> It would be hardwareless.
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
> Chuck
> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
>>Chuck,
>>
>>There is already an ASIO host application that has unlimited I/O so #2 has
>>been covered. It's not simple though
>> http://www.plogue.com/index.php?option=content&task=view &id=21&Itemid=35
>>I haven't tried it yet but will likely get around to it over the weekend
> or
>>early next week. I was thinking of something that could interface directly
>>with Paris so that the UAD-1 cards could work directly on the Paris DAW
>>without having to interface via ADAT on a second workstation. Old Magma's
>>are cheap these days and having the cards in the Paris workstation running
>>Win XP without having to interface with a second DAW using lightpipe would
>>be ideal. this is why I was thinking of Wires. As far as an ASIO driver,
>>under the "Paris DAW being host" scenario, without an efficient ASIO
>>driver,
>>for Paris, I don't see this happening. To tell you the truth, I haven't
> used
>>the Paris ASIO driver in years. I wonder if it would work with a VST host
>>like Forte or Chainer? I do remember some latency with this driver, but
> it's
>>been a long time. Anyway, as far as third party uses for the VST host you
>>are proposing in #1 ...............I honestly don't know unless they were
>>wanting to stream from a DAW with no latency compensation to a digital
>>mixer. I don't think there are any DAWs, other than Paris left on earth
> that
>>don't have latency compensation.
>>
>>If you decide you want to do this, I will support your efforts 100%.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>DJ
>>
>>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:454206a9$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Hi DJ,
>>>
>>> I guess what we are talking about is two things:
>>>
>>> 1. An ASIO host application with let's say 64 ins and 64 outs. This app
>>> would also be a VST host application that would let you insert plugs on
>>each
>>> of the 64 ins. It would add up the total latency on each input, buffer
>>the
>>> output to some consistent user entered amount, and send it out the
>>> output.
>>> The latency for every channel would end up being exactly the same user
>>entered
>>> amount.
>>>
>>> 2. A simple VST plugin that would allow you to select an input and
>>> output
>>> ASIO channel. That's all that one would do. This plug wouldn't have
> any
>>> latency of it's own.
>>>
>>> So my question is..... Is there any other possible use for such a setup?
>>> I would be willing to get involved in an open source freeware,
>>ad/donation
>>> supported project for this if there was.
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
|
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| Re: dj about your idea [message #74977 is a reply to message #74961] |
Fri, 27 October 2006 16:14 |
animix
Messages: 356
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
To me it's going to be all about whether I think the Pulsar FX are
equivalent to UAD FX...not exactly the same, I wouldn't expect that, but
equivalent. I would really like to be able to use the UAD-1 cards with Paris
in a low latency environment though.These FX just wsound great and I'm used
to working with them so mixing with them is comfortable.
;o)
"Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote in message news:4542603b$1@linux...
>
> Just to clear up things regarding Chuck's suggestion and ASIO.
> Well
> 1)you will be needing another audio card that supports asio
> i.e. Pulsar card with scope environement (which can acommodate 16adat
channels,spdif,2
> analog) Pulsar can give you 64 asio routing channels.
> Now if Chuck's vst2asio plugin can "see" these channels (or less than 64
> maybe 24 whatever) then if pulsar runs at 3ms asio the latency beetween
pulsar
> and Paris back and forth will be 6ms.
>
> 2) If you are gonna use Cubase on same computer with Paris you will be
needing
> either pulsar card or rme card on same computer with paris.
> So vst2asio will see the cubase asio outputs and so audio can transfer
back
> and forth.
>
> 3) If you are gonna use also UAD1 cards there will be a big pci stress on
> the machine.
>
> I see only true benefit with a dsp card like Pulsar which has asio or any
> other dsp card with asio like Emu or maybe the Nuende or Focusrite ...
>
> If you don't need to use UAD1 on same computer I am sure with one asio
audio
> card cubase can be this way intergrated with Paris on same computer with
> very small latency as so to bring in VSTI and other.
>
> Just some thoughts...
> Regards,
> Dimitrios
>
> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
> >
> >Well, there were three things going on.
> >
> >1. I thought chainer didn't allow enough channels, or enough instances.
> >
> >2. I thought the other VST hosts you were using required physical audio
> connections
> >(ie were not virtual) .
> >
> >3. I thought the other hosts didn't have enough asio channels
> >
> >"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
> >>DOH!!!!.....OK, the difference being that with this plug we ould
compensate
> >>latency?
> >>
> >>
> >>"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:454246bc$1@linux...
> >>> Ahhh.....OK......so Paris would open this as a VST plugin? Can't we
> >>already
> >>> do that with chainer, etc?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:4542449d$1@linux...
> >>> >
> >>> > Dj,
> >>> >
> >>> > I think you are misunderstanding a little :-) The asio streams in
this
> >>> "new"
> >>> > asio host would be all virtual and not require any hardware or adats
> >>> interfaces
> >>> > at all.
> >>> >
> >>> > The "new" vst plug when used on a channel in paris would let you
select
> >>a
> >>> > route in and back out of the "new" asio host.
> >>> >
> >>> > The "new" host would accept real vsts and delay them to a specific
> user
> >>> entered,
> >>> > consistent threshold, then feed the output back to the same "new"
vst
> >>plug
> >>> > in paris.
> >>> >
> >>> > It would be hardwareless.
> >>> >
> >>> > Chuck
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Chuck
> >>> > "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
> >>> > >Chuck,
> >>> > >
> >>> > >There is already an ASIO host application that has unlimited I/O so
> >#2
> >>> has
> >>> > >been covered. It's not simple though
> >>> >
>
>>> http://www.plogue.com/index.php?option=content&task=view &id=21&Itemid=35
> >>> > >I haven't tried it yet but will likely get around to it over the
> >>weekend
> >>> > or
> >>> > >early next week. I was thinking of something that could interface
> >>> directly
> >>> > >with Paris so that the UAD-1 cards could work directly on the Paris
> >DAW
> >>> > >without having to interface via ADAT on a second workstation. Old
> >>Magma's
> >>> > >are cheap these days and having the cards in the Paris workstation
> >>> running
> >>> > >Win XP without having to interface with a second DAW using
lightpipe
> >>> would
> >>> > >be ideal. this is why I was thinking of Wires. As far as an ASIO
> >>driver,
> >>> > >under the "Paris DAW being host" scenario, without an efficient
ASIO
> >>> driver,
> >>> > >for Paris, I don't see this happening. To tell you the truth, I
haven't
> >>> > used
> >>> > >the Paris ASIO driver in years. I wonder if it would work with a
VST
> >>host
> >>> > >like Forte or Chainer? I do remember some latency with this driver,
> >but
> >>> > it's
> >>> > >been a long time. Anyway, as far as third party uses for the VST
> host
> >>> you
> >>> > >are proposing in #1 ...............I honestly don't know unless
they
> >>were
> >>> > >wanting to stream from a DAW with no latency compensation to a
digital
> >>> > >mixer. I don't think there are any DAWs, other than Paris left on
> earth
> >>> > that
> >>> > >don't have latency compensation.
> >>> > >
> >>> > >If you decide you want to do this, I will support your efforts
100%.
> >>> > >
> >>> > >Thanks,
> >>> > >
> >>> > >DJ
> >>> > >
> >>> > >"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:454206a9$1@linux...
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> Hi DJ,
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> I guess what we are talking about is two things:
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> 1. An ASIO host application with let's say 64 ins and 64 outs.
> This
> >>> app
> >>> > >> would also be a VST host application that would let you insert
plugs
> >>on
> >>> > >each
> >>> > >> of the 64 ins. It would add up the total latency on each input,
> >>buffer
> >>> > >the
> >>> > >> output to some consistent user entered amount, and send it out
the
> >>> output.
> >>> > >> The latency for every channel would end up being exactly the
same
> >>user
> >>> > >entered
> >>> > >> amount.
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> 2. A simple VST plugin that would allow you to select an input
and
> >>> output
> >>> > >> ASIO channel. That's all that one would do. This plug wouldn't
> >have
> >>> > any
> >>> > >> latency of it's own.
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> So my question is..... Is there any other possible use for such
> a
> >>> setup?
> >>> > >> I would be willing to get involved in an open source freeware,
> >>> > >ad/donation
> >>> > >> supported project for this if there was.
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> Chuck
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
|
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| Re: dj about your idea [message #74978 is a reply to message #74958] |
Fri, 27 October 2006 16:21 |
animix
Messages: 356
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Chuck,
"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:45424d16$1@linux...
>
> Well, there were three things going on.
>
> 1. I thought chainer didn't allow enough channels, or enough instances.
I've never used Chainer so I don't know.
>
> 2. I thought the other VST hosts you were using required physical audio
connections
> (ie were not virtual) .
Again, I'm not sure.
>
> 3. I thought the other hosts didn't have enough asio channels
The only one that I know of that does is the one by Plogue.
I'm definitely not an authority on these things. I have used Forte as a
standalone VST host. It worked great streaming over ADAT but I ran out of
channels. The one with unlimited channels looks promising, but I don't know
*what* it requires, other than it will recognize *all* physical I/O and
allow it to be configured as busses of various types.
DJ
>
> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
> >DOH!!!!.....OK, the difference being that with this plug we ould
compensate
> >latency?
> >
> >
> >"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:454246bc$1@linux...
> >> Ahhh.....OK......so Paris would open this as a VST plugin? Can't we
> >already
> >> do that with chainer, etc?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:4542449d$1@linux...
> >> >
> >> > Dj,
> >> >
> >> > I think you are misunderstanding a little :-) The asio streams in
this
> >> "new"
> >> > asio host would be all virtual and not require any hardware or adats
> >> interfaces
> >> > at all.
> >> >
> >> > The "new" vst plug when used on a channel in paris would let you
select
> >a
> >> > route in and back out of the "new" asio host.
> >> >
> >> > The "new" host would accept real vsts and delay them to a specific
user
> >> entered,
> >> > consistent threshold, then feed the output back to the same "new" vst
> >plug
> >> > in paris.
> >> >
> >> > It would be hardwareless.
> >> >
> >> > Chuck
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Chuck
> >> > "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
> >> > >Chuck,
> >> > >
> >> > >There is already an ASIO host application that has unlimited I/O so
> #2
> >> has
> >> > >been covered. It's not simple though
> >> >
> >> http://www.plogue.com/index.php?option=content&task=view &id=21&Itemid=35
> >> > >I haven't tried it yet but will likely get around to it over the
> >weekend
> >> > or
> >> > >early next week. I was thinking of something that could interface
> >> directly
> >> > >with Paris so that the UAD-1 cards could work directly on the Paris
> DAW
> >> > >without having to interface via ADAT on a second workstation. Old
> >Magma's
> >> > >are cheap these days and having the cards in the Paris workstation
> >> running
> >> > >Win XP without having to interface with a second DAW using lightpipe
> >> would
> >> > >be ideal. this is why I was thinking of Wires. As far as an ASIO
> >driver,
> >> > >under the "Paris DAW being host" scenario, without an efficient ASIO
> >> driver,
> >> > >for Paris, I don't see this happening. To tell you the truth, I
haven't
> >> > used
> >> > >the Paris ASIO driver in years. I wonder if it would work with a VST
> >host
> >> > >like Forte or Chainer? I do remember some latency with this driver,
> but
> >> > it's
> >> > >been a long time. Anyway, as far as third party uses for the VST
host
> >> you
> >> > >are proposing in #1 ...............I honestly don't know unless they
> >were
> >> > >wanting to stream from a DAW with no latency compensation to a
digital
> >> > >mixer. I don't think there are any DAWs, other than Paris left on
earth
> >> > that
> >> > >don't have latency compensation.
> >> > >
> >> > >If you decide you want to do this, I will support your efforts 100%.
> >> > >
> >> > >Thanks,
> >> > >
> >> > >DJ
> >> > >
> >> > >"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:454206a9$1@linux...
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Hi DJ,
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I guess what we are talking about is two things:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> 1. An ASIO host application with let's say 64 ins and 64 outs.
This
> >> app
> >> > >> would also be a VST host application that would let you insert
plugs
> >on
> >> > >each
> >> > >> of the 64 ins. It would add up the total latency on each input,
> >buffer
> >> > >the
> >> > >> output to some consistent user entered amount, and send it out the
> >> output.
> >> > >> The latency for every channel would end up being exactly the same
> >user
> >> > >entered
> >> > >> amount.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> 2. A simple VST plugin that would allow you to select an input and
> >> output
> >> > >> ASIO channel. That's all that one would do. This plug wouldn't
> have
> >> > any
> >> > >> latency of it's own.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> So my question is..... Is there any other possible use for such a
> >> setup?
> >> > >> I would be willing to get involved in an open source freeware,
> >> > >ad/donation
> >> > >> supported project for this if there was.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Chuck
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
|
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| Re: dj about your idea [message #75003 is a reply to message #74977] |
Sat, 28 October 2006 05:43 |
Dimitrios
Messages: 1056
Registered: August 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
DJ,
What I suggest.
1)One pc with Paris cards only and the mecs with adat channels.
2)One pc with three pulsar card and many adat /spdif connections.
3) One pc with UAD1 cards only.
Now the fun part:
On pc number 2 (pulsar) you occupy 16 adat channels (or even 24, one adat
plate) to connect the pc number 3 wich has UAD1 cards and RME card.
On pc number 2 the other adat ports are send to Mecs and outboard converters
for external devices hookup
Now adat come and go inside Pulsar is 15 samples latent, so add another 15
for the PC-UAD1 connection goes upto 30 samples, now RME can go as low as
1.5ms (Right?) thus the latency will be 3ms+30 samples or around 150-160
samples.
Inside Pulsar environement where everything interconnects you can add some
extra latency to have a real Paris nudge latency of 2 or 3 nudge clicks or
even a single 5ms nudge click.
When everything will be templated it will be damn easy to work with.
You will get the picture when you will have and work with your pulsars.
Regards,
Dimitrios
"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
>To me it's going to be all about whether I think the Pulsar FX are
>equivalent to UAD FX...not exactly the same, I wouldn't expect that, but
>equivalent. I would really like to be able to use the UAD-1 cards with Paris
>in a low latency environment though.These FX just wsound great and I'm used
>to working with them so mixing with them is comfortable.
>
>
>;o)
>
>
>"Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote in message news:4542603b$1@linux...
>>
>> Just to clear up things regarding Chuck's suggestion and ASIO.
>> Well
>> 1)you will be needing another audio card that supports asio
>> i.e. Pulsar card with scope environement (which can acommodate 16adat
>channels,spdif,2
>> analog) Pulsar can give you 64 asio routing channels.
>> Now if Chuck's vst2asio plugin can "see" these channels (or less than
64
>> maybe 24 whatever) then if pulsar runs at 3ms asio the latency beetween
>pulsar
>> and Paris back and forth will be 6ms.
>>
>> 2) If you are gonna use Cubase on same computer with Paris you will be
>needing
>> either pulsar card or rme card on same computer with paris.
>> So vst2asio will see the cubase asio outputs and so audio can transfer
>back
>> and forth.
>>
>> 3) If you are gonna use also UAD1 cards there will be a big pci stress
on
>> the machine.
>>
>> I see only true benefit with a dsp card like Pulsar which has asio or
any
>> other dsp card with asio like Emu or maybe the Nuende or Focusrite ...
>>
>> If you don't need to use UAD1 on same computer I am sure with one asio
>audio
>> card cubase can be this way intergrated with Paris on same computer with
>> very small latency as so to bring in VSTI and other.
>>
>> Just some thoughts...
>> Regards,
>> Dimitrios
>>
>> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >Well, there were three things going on.
>> >
>> >1. I thought chainer didn't allow enough channels, or enough instances.
>> >
>> >2. I thought the other VST hosts you were using required physical audio
>> connections
>> >(ie were not virtual) .
>> >
>> >3. I thought the other hosts didn't have enough asio channels
>> >
>> >"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
>> >>DOH!!!!.....OK, the difference being that with this plug we ould
>compensate
>> >>latency?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:454246bc$1@linux...
>> >>> Ahhh.....OK......so Paris would open this as a VST plugin? Can't we
>> >>already
>> >>> do that with chainer, etc?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:4542449d$1@linux...
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Dj,
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I think you are misunderstanding a little :-) The asio streams in
>this
>> >>> "new"
>> >>> > asio host would be all virtual and not require any hardware or adats
>> >>> interfaces
>> >>> > at all.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > The "new" vst plug when used on a channel in paris would let you
>select
>> >>a
>> >>> > route in and back out of the "new" asio host.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > The "new" host would accept real vsts and delay them to a specific
>> user
>> >>> entered,
>> >>> > consistent threshold, then feed the output back to the same "new"
>vst
>> >>plug
>> >>> > in paris.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > It would be hardwareless.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Chuck
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Chuck
>> >>> > "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
>> >>> > >Chuck,
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > >There is already an ASIO host application that has unlimited I/O
so
>> >#2
>> >>> has
>> >>> > >been covered. It's not simple though
>> >>> >
>>
>>>> http://www.plogue.com/index.php?option=content&task=view &id=21&Itemid=35
>> >>> > >I haven't tried it yet but will likely get around to it over the
>> >>weekend
>> >>> > or
>> >>> > >early next week. I was thinking of something that could interface
>> >>> directly
>> >>> > >with Paris so that the UAD-1 cards could work directly on the Paris
>> >DAW
>> >>> > >without having to interface via ADAT on a second workstation. Old
>> >>Magma's
>> >>> > >are cheap these days and having the cards in the Paris workstation
>> >>> running
>> >>> > >Win XP without having to interface with a second DAW using
>lightpipe
>> >>> would
>> >>> > >be ideal. this is why I was thinking of Wires. As far as an ASIO
>> >>driver,
>> >>> > >under the "Paris DAW being host" scenario, without an efficient
>ASIO
>> >>> driver,
>> >>> > >for Paris, I don't see this happening. To tell you the truth, I
>haven't
>> >>> > used
>> >>> > >the Paris ASIO driver in years. I wonder if it would work with
a
>VST
>> >>host
>> >>> > >like Forte or Chainer? I do remember some latency with this driver,
>> >but
>> >>> > it's
>> >>> > >been a long time. Anyway, as far as third party uses for the VST
>> host
>> >>> you
>> >>> > >are proposing in #1 ...............I honestly don't know unless
>they
>> >>were
>> >>> > >wanting to stream from a DAW with no latency compensation to a
>digital
>> >>> > >mixer. I don't think there are any DAWs, other than Paris left
on
>> earth
>> >>> > that
>> >>> > >don't have latency compensation.
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > >If you decide you want to do this, I will support your efforts
>100%.
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > >Thanks,
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > >DJ
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > >"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:454206a9$1@linux...
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> Hi DJ,
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> I guess what we are talking about is two things:
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> 1. An ASIO host application with let's say 64 ins and 64 outs.
>> This
>> >>> app
>> >>> > >> would also be a VST host application that would let you insert
>plugs
>> >>on
>> >>> > >each
>> >>> > >> of the 64 ins. It would add up the total latency on each input,
>> >>buffer
>> >>> > >the
>> >>> > >> output to some consistent user entered amount, and send it out
>the
>> >>> output.
>> >>> > >> The latency for every channel would end up being exactly the
>same
>> >>user
>> >>> > >entered
>> >>> > >> amount.
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> 2. A simple VST plugin that would allow you to select an input
>and
>> >>> output
>> >>> > >> ASIO channel. That's all that one would do. This plug wouldn't
>> >have
>> >>> > any
>> >>> > >> latency of it's own.
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> So my question is..... Is there any other possible use for such
>> a
>> >>> setup?
>> >>> > >> I would be willing to get involved in an open source freeware,
>> >>> > >ad/donation
>> >>> > >> supported project for this if there was.
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> Chuck
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > >
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: dj about your idea [message #75004 is a reply to message #74974] |
Sat, 28 October 2006 06:45 |
chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
It would work by shuttling samples in and out of a piece of shared memory
on a single machine. It would not be networked, or require hardware of any
kind, but it would also not introduce and latency.
"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>would work over a network/firewire??
>AA
>
>
>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:4542449d$1@linux...
>>
>> Dj,
>>
>> I think you are misunderstanding a little :-) The asio streams in this
>> "new"
>> asio host would be all virtual and not require any hardware or adats
>> interfaces
>> at all.
>>
>> The "new" vst plug when used on a channel in paris would let you select
a
>> route in and back out of the "new" asio host.
>>
>> The "new" host would accept real vsts and delay them to a specific user
>> entered,
>> consistent threshold, then feed the output back to the same "new" vst
plug
>> in paris.
>>
>> It would be hardwareless.
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>> Chuck
>> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
>>>Chuck,
>>>
>>>There is already an ASIO host application that has unlimited I/O so #2
has
>>>been covered. It's not simple though
>>> http://www.plogue.com/index.php?option=content&task=view &id=21&Itemid=35
>>>I haven't tried it yet but will likely get around to it over the weekend
>> or
>>>early next week. I was thinking of something that could interface directly
>>>with Paris so that the UAD-1 cards could work directly on the Paris DAW
>>>without having to interface via ADAT on a second workstation. Old Magma's
>>>are cheap these days and having the cards in the Paris workstation running
>>>Win XP without having to interface with a second DAW using lightpipe would
>>>be ideal. this is why I was thinking of Wires. As far as an ASIO driver,
>>>under the "Paris DAW being host" scenario, without an efficient ASIO
>>>driver,
>>>for Paris, I don't see this happening. To tell you the truth, I haven't
>> used
>>>the Paris ASIO driver in years. I wonder if it would work with a VST host
>>>like Forte or Chainer? I do remember some latency with this driver, but
>> it's
>>>been a long time. Anyway, as far as third party uses for the VST host
you
>>>are proposing in #1 ...............I honestly don't know unless they were
>>>wanting to stream from a DAW with no latency compensation to a digital
>>>mixer. I don't think there are any DAWs, other than Paris left on earth
>> that
>>>don't have latency compensation.
>>>
>>>If you decide you want to do this, I will support your efforts 100%.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>DJ
>>>
>>>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:454206a9$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> Hi DJ,
>>>>
>>>> I guess what we are talking about is two things:
>>>>
>>>> 1. An ASIO host application with let's say 64 ins and 64 outs. This
app
>>>> would also be a VST host application that would let you insert plugs
on
>>>each
>>>> of the 64 ins. It would add up the total latency on each input, buffer
>>>the
>>>> output to some consistent user entered amount, and send it out the
>>>> output.
>>>> The latency for every channel would end up being exactly the same user
>>>entered
>>>> amount.
>>>>
>>>> 2. A simple VST plugin that would allow you to select an input and
>>>> output
>>>> ASIO channel. That's all that one would do. This plug wouldn't have
>> any
>>>> latency of it's own.
>>>>
>>>> So my question is..... Is there any other possible use for such a setup?
>>>> I would be willing to get involved in an open source freeware,
>>>ad/donation
>>>> supported project for this if there was.
>>>>
>>>> Chuck
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: dj about your idea [message #75030 is a reply to message #75003] |
Sat, 28 October 2006 12:21 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I'm going to try this until Chuck gets his new ASIO beast built.
;o)
"Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote:
>
>DJ,
>What I suggest.
>1)One pc with Paris cards only and the mecs with adat channels.
>
>2)One pc with three pulsar card and many adat /spdif connections.
>
>3) One pc with UAD1 cards only.
>
>Now the fun part:
>On pc number 2 (pulsar) you occupy 16 adat channels (or even 24, one adat
>plate) to connect the pc number 3 wich has UAD1 cards and RME card.
>On pc number 2 the other adat ports are send to Mecs and outboard converters
>for external devices hookup
>Now adat come and go inside Pulsar is 15 samples latent, so add another
15
>for the PC-UAD1 connection goes upto 30 samples, now RME can go as low as
>1.5ms (Right?) thus the latency will be 3ms+30 samples or around 150-160
>samples.
>Inside Pulsar environement where everything interconnects you can add some
>extra latency to have a real Paris nudge latency of 2 or 3 nudge clicks
or
>even a single 5ms nudge click.
>When everything will be templated it will be damn easy to work with.
>You will get the picture when you will have and work with your pulsars.
>
>Regards,
>Dimitrios
>"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
>>To me it's going to be all about whether I think the Pulsar FX are
>>equivalent to UAD FX...not exactly the same, I wouldn't expect that, but
>>equivalent. I would really like to be able to use the UAD-1 cards with
Paris
>>in a low latency environment though.These FX just wsound great and I'm
used
>>to working with them so mixing with them is comfortable.
>>
>>
>>;o)
>>
>>
>>"Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote in message news:4542603b$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Just to clear up things regarding Chuck's suggestion and ASIO.
>>> Well
>>> 1)you will be needing another audio card that supports asio
>>> i.e. Pulsar card with scope environement (which can acommodate 16adat
>>channels,spdif,2
>>> analog) Pulsar can give you 64 asio routing channels.
>>> Now if Chuck's vst2asio plugin can "see" these channels (or less than
>64
>>> maybe 24 whatever) then if pulsar runs at 3ms asio the latency beetween
>>pulsar
>>> and Paris back and forth will be 6ms.
>>>
>>> 2) If you are gonna use Cubase on same computer with Paris you will be
>>needing
>>> either pulsar card or rme card on same computer with paris.
>>> So vst2asio will see the cubase asio outputs and so audio can transfer
>>back
>>> and forth.
>>>
>>> 3) If you are gonna use also UAD1 cards there will be a big pci stress
>on
>>> the machine.
>>>
>>> I see only true benefit with a dsp card like Pulsar which has asio or
>any
>>> other dsp card with asio like Emu or maybe the Nuende or Focusrite ...
>>>
>>> If you don't need to use UAD1 on same computer I am sure with one asio
>>audio
>>> card cubase can be this way intergrated with Paris on same computer with
>>> very small latency as so to bring in VSTI and other.
>>>
>>> Just some thoughts...
>>> Regards,
>>> Dimitrios
>>>
>>> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >Well, there were three things going on.
>>> >
>>> >1. I thought chainer didn't allow enough channels, or enough instances.
>>> >
>>> >2. I thought the other VST hosts you were using required physical audio
>>> connections
>>> >(ie were not virtual) .
>>> >
>>> >3. I thought the other hosts didn't have enough asio channels
>>> >
>>> >"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
>>> >>DOH!!!!.....OK, the difference being that with this plug we ould
>>compensate
>>> >>latency?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:454246bc$1@linux...
>>> >>> Ahhh.....OK......so Paris would open this as a VST plugin? Can't
we
>>> >>already
>>> >>> do that with chainer, etc?
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:4542449d$1@linux...
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Dj,
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > I think you are misunderstanding a little :-) The asio streams
in
>>this
>>> >>> "new"
>>> >>> > asio host would be all virtual and not require any hardware or
adats
>>> >>> interfaces
>>> >>> > at all.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > The "new" vst plug when used on a channel in paris would let you
>>select
>>> >>a
>>> >>> > route in and back out of the "new" asio host.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > The "new" host would accept real vsts and delay them to a specific
>>> user
>>> >>> entered,
>>> >>> > consistent threshold, then feed the output back to the same "new"
>>vst
>>> >>plug
>>> >>> > in paris.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > It would be hardwareless.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Chuck
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Chuck
>>> >>> > "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
>>> >>> > >Chuck,
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > >There is already an ASIO host application that has unlimited I/O
>so
>>> >#2
>>> >>> has
>>> >>> > >been covered. It's not simple though
>>> >>> >
>>>
>>>>> http://www.plogue.com/index.php?option=content&task=view &id=21&Itemid=35
>>> >>> > >I haven't tried it yet but will likely get around to it over the
>>> >>weekend
>>> >>> > or
>>> >>> > >early next week. I was thinking of something that could interface
>>> >>> directly
>>> >>> > >with Paris so that the UAD-1 cards could work directly on the
Paris
>>> >DAW
>>> >>> > >without having to interface via ADAT on a second workstation.
Old
>>> >>Magma's
>>> >>> > >are cheap these days and having the cards in the Paris workstation
>>> >>> running
>>> >>> > >Win XP without having to interface with a second DAW using
>>lightpipe
>>> >>> would
>>> >>> > >be ideal. this is why I was thinking of Wires. As far as an ASIO
>>> >>driver,
>>> >>> > >under the "Paris DAW being host" scenario, without an efficient
>>ASIO
>>> >>> driver,
>>> >>> > >for Paris, I don't see this happening. To tell you the truth,
I
>>haven't
>>> >>> > used
>>> >>> > >the Paris ASIO driver in years. I wonder if it would work with
>a
>>VST
>>> >>host
>>> >>> > >like Forte or Chainer? I do remember some latency with this driver,
>>> >but
>>> >>> > it's
>>> >>> > >been a long time. Anyway, as far as third party uses for the
VST
>>> host
>>> >>> you
>>> >>> > >are proposing in #1 ...............I honestly don't know unless
>>they
>>> >>were
>>> >>> > >wanting to stream from a DAW with no latency compensation to a
>>digital
>>> >>> > >mixer. I don't think there are any DAWs, other than Paris left
>on
>>> earth
>>> >>> > that
>>> >>> > >don't have latency compensation.
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > >If you decide you want to do this, I will support your efforts
>>100%.
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > >Thanks,
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > >DJ
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > >"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:454206a9$1@linux...
>>> >>> > >>
>>> >>> > >> Hi DJ,
>>> >>> > >>
>>> >>> > >> I guess what we are talking about is two things:
>>> >>> > >>
>>> >>> > >> 1. An ASIO host application with let's say 64 ins and 64 outs.
>>> This
>>> >>> app
>>> >>> > >> would also be a VST host application that would let you insert
>>plugs
>>> >>on
>>> >>> > >each
>>> >>> > >> of the 64 ins. It would add up the total latency on each input,
>>> >>buffer
>>> >>> > >the
>>> >>> > >> output to some consistent user entered amount, and send it out
>>the
>>> >>> output.
>>> >>> > >> The latency for every channel would end up being exactly the
>>same
>>> >>user
>>> >>> > >entered
>>> >>> > >> amount.
>>> >>> > >>
>>> >>> > >> 2. A simple VST plugin that would allow you to select an input
>>and
>>> >>> output
>>> >>> > >> ASIO channel. That's all that one would do. This plug wouldn't
>>> >have
>>> >>> > any
>>> >>> > >> latency of it's own.
>>> >>> > >>
>>> >>> > >> So my question is..... Is there any other possible use for such
>>> a
>>> >>> setup?
>>> >>> > >> I would be willing to get involved in an open source freeware,
>>> >>> > >ad/donation
>>> >>> > >> supported project for this if there was.
>>> >>> > >>
>>> >>> > >> Chuck
>>> >>> > >>
>>> >>> > >>
>>> >>> > >>
>>> >>> > >>
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: dj about your idea [message #75063 is a reply to message #75004] |
Sat, 28 October 2006 18:29 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
For native guys, this would work but as time and tech progresses Paris will
get (big surprise) further and further behind this way, biggest problem
being the CPU. Once you can no longer buy a single core CPU things are gonna
be ugly for Paris users, and we're almost there now.
Is there any way to code in a TCP (network/IEEE1394) stack to offload to a
separate or bank of machines?
AA
"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:45435ee3$1@linux...
>
> It would work by shuttling samples in and out of a piece of shared memory
> on a single machine. It would not be networked, or require hardware of
> any
> kind, but it would also not introduce and latency.
>
> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>would work over a network/firewire??
>>AA
>>
>>
>>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:4542449d$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Dj,
>>>
>>> I think you are misunderstanding a little :-) The asio streams in this
>
>>> "new"
>>> asio host would be all virtual and not require any hardware or adats
>>> interfaces
>>> at all.
>>>
>>> The "new" vst plug when used on a channel in paris would let you select
> a
>>> route in and back out of the "new" asio host.
>>>
>>> The "new" host would accept real vsts and delay them to a specific user
>
>>> entered,
>>> consistent threshold, then feed the output back to the same "new" vst
> plug
>>> in paris.
>>>
>>> It would be hardwareless.
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
>>>>Chuck,
>>>>
>>>>There is already an ASIO host application that has unlimited I/O so #2
> has
>>>>been covered. It's not simple though
>>>> http://www.plogue.com/index.php?option=content&task=view &id=21&Itemid=35
>>>>I haven't tried it yet but will likely get around to it over the weekend
>>> or
>>>>early next week. I was thinking of something that could interface
>>>>directly
>>>>with Paris so that the UAD-1 cards could work directly on the Paris DAW
>>>>without having to interface via ADAT on a second workstation. Old
>>>>Magma's
>>>>are cheap these days and having the cards in the Paris workstation
>>>>running
>>>>Win XP without having to interface with a second DAW using lightpipe
>>>>would
>>>>be ideal. this is why I was thinking of Wires. As far as an ASIO driver,
>>>>under the "Paris DAW being host" scenario, without an efficient ASIO
>>>>driver,
>>>>for Paris, I don't see this happening. To tell you the truth, I haven't
>>> used
>>>>the Paris ASIO driver in years. I wonder if it would work with a VST
>>>>host
>>>>like Forte or Chainer? I do remember some latency with this driver, but
>>> it's
>>>>been a long time. Anyway, as far as third party uses for the VST host
> you
>>>>are proposing in #1 ...............I honestly don't know unless they
>>>>were
>>>>wanting to stream from a DAW with no latency compensation to a digital
>>>>mixer. I don't think there are any DAWs, other than Paris left on earth
>>> that
>>>>don't have latency compensation.
>>>>
>>>>If you decide you want to do this, I will support your efforts 100%.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>DJ
>>>>
>>>>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:454206a9$1@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi DJ,
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess what we are talking about is two things:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. An ASIO host application with let's say 64 ins and 64 outs. This
> app
>>>>> would also be a VST host application that would let you insert plugs
> on
>>>>each
>>>>> of the 64 ins. It would add up the total latency on each input,
>>>>> buffer
>>>>the
>>>>> output to some consistent user entered amount, and send it out the
>>>>> output.
>>>>> The latency for every channel would end up being exactly the same
>>>>> user
>>>>entered
>>>>> amount.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. A simple VST plugin that would allow you to select an input and
>>>>> output
>>>>> ASIO channel. That's all that one would do. This plug wouldn't have
>>> any
>>>>> latency of it's own.
>>>>>
>>>>> So my question is..... Is there any other possible use for such a
>>>>> setup?
>>>>> I would be willing to get involved in an open source freeware,
>>>>ad/donation
>>>>> supported project for this if there was.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: dj about your idea [message #75083 is a reply to message #75003] |
Sat, 28 October 2006 22:37 |
animix
Messages: 356
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Dimitrios. I loaded one of the Pulsar cards tonight. No problems with it but
it was the one with the ADAT I/O and these cannot be configured to work as
optical I/O, only ADAT so I haven't hooked them up to the Paris MECs yet. I
don't have a registration key for my other on yet so I can't use it, plus
the sync cable that connects the two cards didn't come today. The routing
options for Pulsar are amazing to behold and they actually make sense!!!Very
much like Paris in some ways, but maybe more flexible from what I can see
right now. Compared to Totalmix, there is no comparison (IMHO). I'll be
getting this going with some Paris tracks tomorrow and let you know what I
think about it. I'm curious to know how the delay compensator plugins works
(and where it is.......I couldn't find it).
;o)
Deej
"Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote in message news:45435081$1@linux...
>
> DJ,
> What I suggest.
> 1)One pc with Paris cards only and the mecs with adat channels.
>
> 2)One pc with three pulsar card and many adat /spdif connections.
>
> 3) One pc with UAD1 cards only.
>
> Now the fun part:
> On pc number 2 (pulsar) you occupy 16 adat channels (or even 24, one adat
> plate) to connect the pc number 3 wich has UAD1 cards and RME card.
> On pc number 2 the other adat ports are send to Mecs and outboard
converters
> for external devices hookup
> Now adat come and go inside Pulsar is 15 samples latent, so add another 15
> for the PC-UAD1 connection goes upto 30 samples, now RME can go as low as
> 1.5ms (Right?) thus the latency will be 3ms+30 samples or around 150-160
> samples.
> Inside Pulsar environement where everything interconnects you can add some
> extra latency to have a real Paris nudge latency of 2 or 3 nudge clicks or
> even a single 5ms nudge click.
> When everything will be templated it will be damn easy to work with.
> You will get the picture when you will have and work with your pulsars.
>
> Regards,
> Dimitrios
> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
> >To me it's going to be all about whether I think the Pulsar FX are
> >equivalent to UAD FX...not exactly the same, I wouldn't expect that, but
> >equivalent. I would really like to be able to use the UAD-1 cards with
Paris
> >in a low latency environment though.These FX just wsound great and I'm
used
> >to working with them so mixing with them is comfortable.
> >
> >
> >;o)
> >
> >
> >"Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote in message
news:4542603b$1@linux...
> >>
> >> Just to clear up things regarding Chuck's suggestion and ASIO.
> >> Well
> >> 1)you will be needing another audio card that supports asio
> >> i.e. Pulsar card with scope environement (which can acommodate 16adat
> >channels,spdif,2
> >> analog) Pulsar can give you 64 asio routing channels.
> >> Now if Chuck's vst2asio plugin can "see" these channels (or less than
> 64
> >> maybe 24 whatever) then if pulsar runs at 3ms asio the latency beetween
> >pulsar
> >> and Paris back and forth will be 6ms.
> >>
> >> 2) If you are gonna use Cubase on same computer with Paris you will be
> >needing
> >> either pulsar card or rme card on same computer with paris.
> >> So vst2asio will see the cubase asio outputs and so audio can transfer
> >back
> >> and forth.
> >>
> >> 3) If you are gonna use also UAD1 cards there will be a big pci stress
> on
> >> the machine.
> >>
> >> I see only true benefit with a dsp card like Pulsar which has asio or
> any
> >> other dsp card with asio like Emu or maybe the Nuende or Focusrite ...
> >>
> >> If you don't need to use UAD1 on same computer I am sure with one asio
> >audio
> >> card cubase can be this way intergrated with Paris on same computer
with
> >> very small latency as so to bring in VSTI and other.
> >>
> >> Just some thoughts...
> >> Regards,
> >> Dimitrios
> >>
> >> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >Well, there were three things going on.
> >> >
> >> >1. I thought chainer didn't allow enough channels, or enough
instances.
> >> >
> >> >2. I thought the other VST hosts you were using required physical
audio
> >> connections
> >> >(ie were not virtual) .
> >> >
> >> >3. I thought the other hosts didn't have enough asio channels
> >> >
> >> >"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
> >> >>DOH!!!!.....OK, the difference being that with this plug we ould
> >compensate
> >> >>latency?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:454246bc$1@linux...
> >> >>> Ahhh.....OK......so Paris would open this as a VST plugin? Can't we
> >> >>already
> >> >>> do that with chainer, etc?
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:4542449d$1@linux...
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Dj,
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > I think you are misunderstanding a little :-) The asio streams in
> >this
> >> >>> "new"
> >> >>> > asio host would be all virtual and not require any hardware or
adats
> >> >>> interfaces
> >> >>> > at all.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > The "new" vst plug when used on a channel in paris would let you
> >select
> >> >>a
> >> >>> > route in and back out of the "new" asio host.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > The "new" host would accept real vsts and delay them to a
specific
> >> user
> >> >>> entered,
> >> >>> > consistent threshold, then feed the output back to the same "new"
> >vst
> >> >>plug
> >> >>> > in paris.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > It would be hardwareless.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Chuck
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Chuck
> >> >>> > "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
> >> >>> > >Chuck,
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >There is already an ASIO host application that has unlimited I/O
> so
> >> >#2
> >> >>> has
> >> >>> > >been covered. It's not simple though
> >> >>> >
> >>
>
>>>> http://www.plogue.com/index.php?option=content&task=view &id=21&Itemid=35
> >> >>> > >I haven't tried it yet but will likely get around to it over the
> >> >>weekend
> >> >>> > or
> >> >>> > >early next week. I was thinking of something that could
interface
> >> >>> directly
> >> >>> > >with Paris so that the UAD-1 cards could work directly on the
Paris
> >> >DAW
> >> >>> > >without having to interface via ADAT on a second workstation.
Old
> >> >>Magma's
> >> >>> > >are cheap these days and having the cards in the Paris
workstation
> >> >>> running
> >> >>> > >Win XP without having to interface with a second DAW using
> >lightpipe
> >> >>> would
> >> >>> > >be ideal. this is why I was thinking of Wires. As far as an ASIO
> >> >>driver,
> >> >>> > >under the "Paris DAW being host" scenario, without an efficient
> >ASIO
> >> >>> driver,
> >> >>> > >for Paris, I don't see this happening. To tell you the truth, I
> >haven't
> >> >>> > used
> >> >>> > >the Paris ASIO driver in years. I wonder if it would work with
> a
> >VST
> >> >>host
> >> >>> > >like Forte or Chainer? I do remember some latency with this
driver,
> >> >but
> >> >>> > it's
> >> >>> > >been a long time. Anyway, as far as third party uses for the
VST
> >> host
> >> >>> you
> >> >>> > >are proposing in #1 ...............I honestly don't know unless
> >they
> >> >>were
> >> >>> > >wanting to stream from a DAW with no latency compensation to a
> >digital
> >> >>> > >mixer. I don't think there are any DAWs, other than Paris left
> on
> >> earth
> >> >>> > that
> >> >>> > >don't have latency compensation.
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >If you decide you want to do this, I will support your efforts
> >100%.
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >Thanks,
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >DJ
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message
news:454206a9$1@linux...
> >> >>> > >>
> >> >>> > >> Hi DJ,
> >> >>> > >>
> >> >>> > >> I guess what we are talking about is two things:
> >> >>> > >>
> >> >>> > >> 1. An ASIO host application with let's say 64 ins and 64 outs.
> >> This
> >> >>> app
> >> >>> > >> would also be a VST host application that would let you insert
> >plugs
> >> >>on
> >> >>> > >each
> >> >>> > >> of the 64 ins. It would add up the total latency on each
input,
> >> >>buffer
> >> >>> > >the
> >> >>> > >> output to some consistent user entered amount, and send it out
> >the
> >> >>> output.
> >> >>> > >> The latency for every channel would end up being exactly the
> >same
> >> >>user
> >> >>> > >entered
> >> >>> > >> amount.
> >> >>> > >>
> >> >>> > >> 2. A simple VST plugin that would allow you to select an input
> >and
> >> >>> output
> >> >>> > >> ASIO channel. That's all that one would do. This plug
wouldn't
> >> >have
> >> >>> > any
> >> >>> > >> latency of it's own.
> >> >>> > >>
> >> >>> > >> So my question is..... Is there any other possible use for
such
> >> a
> >> >>> setup?
> >> >>> > >> I would be willing to get involved in an open source
freeware,
> >> >>> > >ad/donation
> >> >>> > >> supported project for this if there was.
> >> >>> > >>
> >> >>> > >> Chuck
> >> >>> > >>
> >> >>> > >>
> >> >>> > >>
> >> >>> > >>
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: dj about your idea [message #75087 is a reply to message #75083] |
Sun, 29 October 2006 03:59 |
Dimitrios
Messages: 1056
Registered: August 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Dear DJ,
Nice to know you are on Pulsar boat !
Goodit sounds familiar in a way...
There is NO delay compensation well automatic plugin.
There is a free device found under devices in planetz which is called millidelay.
This lets you delay audio tracks by samples !
No 80 samples minimum shit here, just simple sample by sample delay.
You will be needing to do your classic homework for all your connections
measuring the actual delay and keep your tracks for it.
For example adat from Paris to Pulsar is 7,5 samples long.
So round trip adat 15 samples.
Now if you use pulsar mixer device fromthe simpliest like "channel" to
the biggiest it is 4 samples using normal Pulsar effects.
Some heavy effects like SPL transient are around 37 samplesm, so a basic
15+37+4=56 samples , now put in series millidelay and delay a further 24
samples for a total of 80 samples just to nudge 1ms back in paris, you got
the picture right ?
For instance I have some ad preamps with digi outs.
DBX 376/386 .These when I measure the analog out (dbx) to Paris analog in
against the digital out (dbx) to spdif in (paris) there is a 13 samples difference,
so I take this into account when I am recording drums.
Regards,
Dimitrios
"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
>Dimitrios. I loaded one of the Pulsar cards tonight. No problems with it
but
>it was the one with the ADAT I/O and these cannot be configured to work
as
>optical I/O, only ADAT so I haven't hooked them up to the Paris MECs yet.
I
>don't have a registration key for my other on yet so I can't use it, plus
>the sync cable that connects the two cards didn't come today. The routing
>options for Pulsar are amazing to behold and they actually make sense!!!Very
>much like Paris in some ways, but maybe more flexible from what I can see
>right now. Compared to Totalmix, there is no comparison (IMHO). I'll be
>getting this going with some Paris tracks tomorrow and let you know what
I
>think about it. I'm curious to know how the delay compensator plugins works
>(and where it is.......I couldn't find it).
>
>;o)
>
>Deej
>
>
>"Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote in message news:45435081$1@linux...
>>
>> DJ,
>> What I suggest.
>> 1)One pc with Paris cards only and the mecs with adat channels.
>>
>> 2)One pc with three pulsar card and many adat /spdif connections.
>>
>> 3) One pc with UAD1 cards only.
>>
>> Now the fun part:
>> On pc number 2 (pulsar) you occupy 16 adat channels (or even 24, one adat
>> plate) to connect the pc number 3 wich has UAD1 cards and RME card.
>> On pc number 2 the other adat ports are send to Mecs and outboard
>converters
>> for external devices hookup
>> Now adat come and go inside Pulsar is 15 samples latent, so add another
15
>> for the PC-UAD1 connection goes upto 30 samples, now RME can go as low
as
>> 1.5ms (Right?) thus the latency will be 3ms+30 samples or around 150-160
>> samples.
>> Inside Pulsar environement where everything interconnects you can add
some
>> extra latency to have a real Paris nudge latency of 2 or 3 nudge clicks
or
>> even a single 5ms nudge click.
>> When everything will be templated it will be damn easy to work with.
>> You will get the picture when you will have and work with your pulsars.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dimitrios
>> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
>> >To me it's going to be all about whether I think the Pulsar FX are
>> >equivalent to UAD FX...not exactly the same, I wouldn't expect that,
but
>> >equivalent. I would really like to be able to use the UAD-1 cards with
>Paris
>> >in a low latency environment though.These FX just wsound great and I'm
>used
>> >to working with them so mixing with them is comfortable.
>> >
>> >
>> >;o)
>> >
>> >
>> >"Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote in message
>news:4542603b$1@linux...
>> >>
>> >> Just to clear up things regarding Chuck's suggestion and ASIO.
>> >> Well
>> >> 1)you will be needing another audio card that supports asio
>> >> i.e. Pulsar card with scope environement (which can acommodate 16adat
>> >channels,spdif,2
>> >> analog) Pulsar can give you 64 asio routing channels.
>> >> Now if Chuck's vst2asio plugin can "see" these channels (or less than
>> 64
>> >> maybe 24 whatever) then if pulsar runs at 3ms asio the latency beetween
>> >pulsar
>> >> and Paris back and forth will be 6ms.
>> >>
>> >> 2) If you are gonna use Cubase on same computer with Paris you will
be
>> >needing
>> >> either pulsar card or rme card on same computer with paris.
>> >> So vst2asio will see the cubase asio outputs and so audio can transfer
>> >back
>> >> and forth.
>> >>
>> >> 3) If you are gonna use also UAD1 cards there will be a big pci stress
>> on
>> >> the machine.
>> >>
>> >> I see only true benefit with a dsp card like Pulsar which has asio
or
>> any
>> >> other dsp card with asio like Emu or maybe the Nuende or Focusrite
...
>> >>
>> >> If you don't need to use UAD1 on same computer I am sure with one asio
>> >audio
>> >> card cubase can be this way intergrated with Paris on same computer
>with
>> >> very small latency as so to bring in VSTI and other.
>> >>
>> >> Just some thoughts...
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Dimitrios
>> >>
>> >> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >Well, there were three things going on.
>> >> >
>> >> >1. I thought chainer didn't allow enough channels, or enough
>instances.
>> >> >
>> >> >2. I thought the other VST hosts you were using required physical
>audio
>> >> connections
>> >> >(ie were not virtual) .
>> >> >
>> >> >3. I thought the other hosts didn't have enough asio channels
>> >> >
>> >> >"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
>> >> >>DOH!!!!.....OK, the difference being that with this plug we ould
>> >compensate
>> >> >>latency?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:454246bc$1@linux...
>> >> >>> Ahhh.....OK......so Paris would open this as a VST plugin? Can't
we
>> >> >>already
>> >> >>> do that with chainer, etc?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:4542449d$1@linux...
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > Dj,
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > I think you are misunderstanding a little :-) The asio streams
in
>> >this
>> >> >>> "new"
>> >> >>> > asio host would be all virtual and not require any hardware or
>adats
>> >> >>> interfaces
>> >> >>> > at all.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > The "new" vst plug when used on a channel in paris would let
you
>> >select
>> >> >>a
>> >> >>> > route in and back out of the "new" asio host.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > The "new" host would accept real vsts and delay them to a
>specific
>> >> user
>> >> >>> entered,
>> >> >>> > consistent threshold, then feed the output back to the same "new"
>> >vst
>> >> >>plug
>> >> >>> > in paris.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > It would be hardwareless.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > Chuck
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > Chuck
>> >> >>> > "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
>> >> >>> > >Chuck,
>> >> >>> > >
>> >> >>> > >There is already an ASIO host application that has unlimited
I/O
>> so
>> >> >#2
>> >> >>> has
>> >> >>> > >been covered. It's not simple though
>> >> >>> >
>> >>
>>
>>>>> http://www.plogue.com/index.php?option=content&task=view &id=21&Itemid=35
>> >> >>> > >I haven't tried it yet but will likely get around to it over
the
>> >> >>weekend
>> >> >>> > or
>> >> >>> > >early next week. I was thinking of something that could
>interface
>> >> >>> directly
>> >> >>> > >with Paris so that the UAD-1 cards could work directly on the
>Paris
>> >> >DAW
>> >> >>> > >without having to interface via ADAT on a second workstation.
>Old
>> >> >>Magma's
>> >> >>> > >are cheap these days and having the cards in the Paris
>workstation
>> >> >>> running
>> >> >>> > >Win XP without having to interface with a second DAW using
>> >lightpipe
>> >> >>> would
>> >> >>> > >be ideal. this is why I was thinking of Wires. As far as an
ASIO
>> >> >>driver,
>> >> >>> > >under the "Paris DAW being host" scenario, without an efficient
>> >ASIO
>> >> >>> driver,
>> >> >>> > >for Paris, I don't see this happening. To tell you the truth,
I
>> >haven't
>> >> >>> > used
>> >> >>> > >the Paris ASIO driver in years. I wonder if it would work with
>> a
>> >VST
>> >> >>host
>> >> >>> > >like Forte or Chainer? I do remember some latency with this
>driver,
>> >> >but
>> >> >>> > it's
>> >> >>> > >been a long time. Anyway, as far as third party uses for the
>VST
>> >> host
>> >> >>> you
>> >> >>> > >are proposing in #1 ...............I honestly don't know unless
>> >they
>> >> >>were
>> >> >>> > >wanting to stream from a DAW with no latency compensation to
a
>> >digital
>> >> >>> > >mixer. I don't think there are any DAWs, other than Paris left
>> on
>> >> earth
>> >> >>> > that
>> >> >>> > >don't have latency compensation.
>> >> >>> > >
>> >> >>> > >If you decide you want to do this, I will support your efforts
>> >100%.
>> >> >>> > >
>> >> >>> > >Thanks,
>> >> >>> > >
>> >> >>> > >DJ
>> >> >>> > >
>> >> >>> > >"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message
>news:454206a9$1@linux...
>> >> >>> > >>
>> >> >>> > >> Hi DJ,
>> >> >>> > >>
>> >> >>> > >> I guess what we are talking about is two things:
>> >> >>> > >>
>> >> >>> > >> 1. An ASIO host application with let's say 64 ins and 64 outs.
>> >> This
>> >> >>> app
>> >> >>> > >> would also be a VST host application that would let you insert
>> >plugs
>> >> >>on
>> >> >>> > >each
>> >> >>> > >> of the 64 ins. It would add up the total latency on each
>input,
>> >> >>buffer
>> >> >>> > >the
>> >> >>> > >> output to some consistent user entered amount, and send it
out
>> >the
>> >> >>> output.
>> >> >>> > >> The latency for every channel would end up being exactly
the
>> >same
>> >> >>user
>> >> >>> > >entered
>> >> >>> > >> amount.
>> >> >>> > >>
>> >> >>> > >> 2. A simple VST plugin that would allow you to select an input
>> >and
>> >> >>> output
>> >> >>> > >> ASIO channel. That's all that one would do. This plug
>wouldn't
>> >> >have
>> >> >>> > any
>> >> >>> > >> latency of it's own.
>> >> >>> > >>
>> >> >>> > >> So my question is..... Is there any other possible use for
>such
>> >> a
>> >> >>> setup?
>> >> >>> > >> I would be willing to get involved in an open source
>freeware,
>> >> >>> > >ad/donation
>> >> >>> > >> supported project for this if there was.
>> >> >>> > >>
>> >> >>> > >> Chuck
>> >> >>> > >>
>> >> >>> > >>
>> >> >>> > >>
>> >> >>> > >>
>> >> >>> > >
>> >> >>> > >
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: dj about your idea [message #75093 is a reply to message #75087] |
Sun, 29 October 2006 07:38 |
animix
Messages: 356
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Thanks Dimitrios,
this sounds simple..........simple is good..........(did I really say that?)
;o)
"Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote in message news:4544899e$1@linux...
>
> Dear DJ,
> Nice to know you are on Pulsar boat !
> Goodit sounds familiar in a way...
> There is NO delay compensation well automatic plugin.
> There is a free device found under devices in planetz which is called
millidelay.
> This lets you delay audio tracks by samples !
> No 80 samples minimum shit here, just simple sample by sample delay.
> You will be needing to do your classic homework for all your connections
> measuring the actual delay and keep your tracks for it.
> For example adat from Paris to Pulsar is 7,5 samples long.
> So round trip adat 15 samples.
> Now if you use pulsar mixer device fromthe simpliest like "channel" to
> the biggiest it is 4 samples using normal Pulsar effects.
> Some heavy effects like SPL transient are around 37 samplesm, so a basic
> 15+37+4=56 samples , now put in series millidelay and delay a further 24
> samples for a total of 80 samples just to nudge 1ms back in paris, you got
> the picture right ?
> For instance I have some ad preamps with digi outs.
> DBX 376/386 .These when I measure the analog out (dbx) to Paris analog in
> against the digital out (dbx) to spdif in (paris) there is a 13 samples
difference,
> so I take this into account when I am recording drums.
> Regards,
> Dimitrios
>
> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
> >Dimitrios. I loaded one of the Pulsar cards tonight. No problems with it
> but
> >it was the one with the ADAT I/O and these cannot be configured to work
> as
> >optical I/O, only ADAT so I haven't hooked them up to the Paris MECs yet.
> I
> >don't have a registration key for my other on yet so I can't use it, plus
> >the sync cable that connects the two cards didn't come today. The routing
> >options for Pulsar are amazing to behold and they actually make
sense!!!Very
> >much like Paris in some ways, but maybe more flexible from what I can see
> >right now. Compared to Totalmix, there is no comparison (IMHO). I'll be
> >getting this going with some Paris tracks tomorrow and let you know what
> I
> >think about it. I'm curious to know how the delay compensator plugins
works
> >(and where it is.......I couldn't find it).
> >
> >;o)
> >
> >Deej
> >
> >
> >"Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote in message
news:45435081$1@linux...
> >>
> >> DJ,
> >> What I suggest.
> >> 1)One pc with Paris cards only and the mecs with adat channels.
> >>
> >> 2)One pc with three pulsar card and many adat /spdif connections.
> >>
> >> 3) One pc with UAD1 cards only.
> >>
> >> Now the fun part:
> >> On pc number 2 (pulsar) you occupy 16 adat channels (or even 24, one
adat
> >> plate) to connect the pc number 3 wich has UAD1 cards and RME card.
> >> On pc number 2 the other adat ports are send to Mecs and outboard
> >converters
> >> for external devices hookup
> >> Now adat come and go inside Pulsar is 15 samples latent, so add another
> 15
> >> for the PC-UAD1 connection goes upto 30 samples, now RME can go as low
> as
> >> 1.5ms (Right?) thus the latency will be 3ms+30 samples or around
150-160
> >> samples.
> >> Inside Pulsar environement where everything interconnects you can add
> some
> >> extra latency to have a real Paris nudge latency of 2 or 3 nudge clicks
> or
> >> even a single 5ms nudge click.
> >> When everything will be templated it will be damn easy to work with.
> >> You will get the picture when you will have and work with your pulsars.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Dimitrios
> >> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
> >> >To me it's going to be all about whether I think the Pulsar FX are
> >> >equivalent to UAD FX...not exactly the same, I wouldn't expect that,
> but
> >> >equivalent. I would really like to be able to use the UAD-1 cards with
> >Paris
> >> >in a low latency environment though.These FX just wsound great and I'm
> >used
> >> >to working with them so mixing with them is comfortable.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >;o)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >"Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote in message
> >news:4542603b$1@linux...
> >> >>
> >> >> Just to clear up things regarding Chuck's suggestion and ASIO.
> >> >> Well
> >> >> 1)you will be needing another audio card that supports asio
> >> >> i.e. Pulsar card with scope environement (which can acommodate
16adat
> >> >channels,spdif,2
> >> >> analog) Pulsar can give you 64 asio routing channels.
> >> >> Now if Chuck's vst2asio plugin can "see" these channels (or less
than
> >> 64
> >> >> maybe 24 whatever) then if pulsar runs at 3ms asio the latency
beetween
> >> >pulsar
> >> >> and Paris back and forth will be 6ms.
> >> >>
> >> >> 2) If you are gonna use Cubase on same computer with Paris you will
> be
> >> >needing
> >> >> either pulsar card or rme card on same computer with paris.
> >> >> So vst2asio will see the cubase asio outputs and so audio can
transfer
> >> >back
> >> >> and forth.
> >> >>
> >> >> 3) If you are gonna use also UAD1 cards there will be a big pci
stress
> >> on
> >> >> the machine.
> >> >>
> >> >> I see only true benefit with a dsp card like Pulsar which has asio
> or
> >> any
> >> >> other dsp card with asio like Emu or maybe the Nuende or Focusrite
> ..
> >> >>
> >> >> If you don't need to use UAD1 on same computer I am sure with one
asio
> >> >audio
> >> >> card cubase can be this way intergrated with Paris on same computer
> >with
> >> >> very small latency as so to bring in VSTI and other.
> >> >>
> >> >> Just some thoughts...
> >> >> Regards,
> >> >> Dimitrios
> >> >>
> >> >> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Well, there were three things going on.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >1. I thought chainer didn't allow enough channels, or enough
> >instances.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >2. I thought the other VST hosts you were using required physical
> >audio
> >> >> connections
> >> >> >(ie were not virtual) .
> >> >> >
> >> >> >3. I thought the other hosts didn't have enough asio channels
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
> >> >> >>DOH!!!!.....OK, the difference being that with this plug we ould
> >> >compensate
> >> >> >>latency?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message
news:454246bc$1@linux...
> >> >> >>> Ahhh.....OK......so Paris would open this as a VST plugin? Can't
> we
> >> >> >>already
> >> >> >>> do that with chainer, etc?
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message
news:4542449d$1@linux...
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> > Dj,
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> > I think you are misunderstanding a little :-) The asio streams
> in
> >> >this
> >> >> >>> "new"
> >> >> >>> > asio host would be all virtual and not require any hardware or
> >adats
> >> >> >>> interfaces
> >> >> >>> > at all.
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> > The "new" vst plug when used on a channel in paris would let
> you
> >> >select
> >> >> >>a
> >> >> >>> > route in and back out of the "new" asio host.
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> > The "new" host would accept real vsts and delay them to a
> >specific
> >> >> user
> >> >> >>> entered,
> >> >> >>> > consistent threshold, then feed the output back to the same
"new"
> >> >vst
> >> >> >>plug
> >> >> >>> > in paris.
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> > It would be hardwareless.
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> > Chuck
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> > Chuck
> >> >> >>> > "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
> >> >> >>> > >Chuck,
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> > >There is already an ASIO host application that has unlimited
> I/O
> >> so
> >> >> >#2
> >> >> >>> has
> >> >> >>> > >been covered. It's not simple though
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >>
> >>
>
>>>>> http://www.plogue.com/index.php?option=content&task=view &id=21&Itemid=3
5
> >> >> >>> > >I haven't tried it yet but will likely get around to it over
> the
> >> >> >>weekend
> >> >> >>> > or
> >> >> >>> > >early next week. I was thinking of something that could
> >interface
> >> >> >>> directly
> >> >> >>> > >with Paris so that the UAD-1 cards could work directly on the
> >Paris
> >> >> >DAW
> >> >> >>> > >without having to interface via ADAT on a second workstation.
> >Old
> >> >> >>Magma's
> >> >> >>> > >are cheap these days and having the cards in the Paris
> >workstation
> >> >> >>> running
> >> >> >>> > >Win XP without having to interface with a second DAW using
> >> >lightpipe
> >> >> >>> would
> >> >> >>> > >be ideal. this is why I was thinking of Wires. As far as an
> ASIO
> >> >> >>driver,
> >> >> >>> > >under the "Paris DAW being host" scenario, without an
efficient
> >> >ASIO
> >> >> >>> driver,
> >> >> >>> > >for Paris, I don't see this happening. To tell you the truth,
> I
> >> >haven't
> >> >> >>> > used
> >> >> >>> > >the Paris ASIO driver in years. I wonder if it would work
with
> >> a
> >> >VST
> >> >> >>host
> >> >> >>> > >like Forte or Chainer? I do remember some latency with this
> >driver,
> >> >> >but
> >> >> >>> > it's
> >> >> >>> > >been a long time. Anyway, as far as third party uses for the
> >VST
> >> >> host
> >> >> >>> you
> >> >> >>> > >are proposing in #1 ...............I honestly don't know
unless
> >> >they
> >> >> >>were
> >> >> >>> > >wanting to stream from a DAW with no latency compensation to
> a
> >> >digital
> >> >> >>> > >mixer. I don't think there are any DAWs, other than Paris
left
> >> on
> >> >> earth
> >> >> >>> > that
> >> >> >>> > >don't have latency compensation.
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> > >If you decide you want to do this, I will support your
efforts
> >> >100%.
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> > >Thanks,
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> > >DJ
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> > >"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message
> >news:454206a9$1@linux...
> >> >> >>> > >>
> >> >> >>> > >> Hi DJ,
> >> >> >>> > >>
> >> >> >>> > >> I guess what we are talking about is two things:
> >> >> >>> > >>
> >> >> >>> > >> 1. An ASIO host application with let's say 64 ins and 64
outs.
> >> >> This
> >> >> >>> app
> >> >> >>> > >> would also be a VST host application that would let you
insert
> >> >plugs
> >> >> >>on
> >> >> >>> > >each
> >> >> >>> > >> of the 64 ins. It would add up the total latency on each
> >input,
> >> >> >>buffer
> >> >> >>> > >the
> >> >> >>> > >> output to some consistent user entered amount, and send it
> out
> >> >the
> >> >> >>> output.
> >> >> >>> > >> The latency for every channel would end up being exactly
> the
> >> >same
> >> >> >>user
> >> >> >>> > >entered
> >> >> >>> > >> amount.
> >> >> >>> > >>
> >> >> >>> > >> 2. A simple VST plugin that would allow you to select an
input
> >> >and
> >> >> >>> output
> >> >> >>> > >> ASIO channel. That's all that one would do. This plug
> >wouldn't
> >> >> >have
> >> >> >>> > any
> >> >> >>> > >> latency of it's own.
> >> >> >>> > >>
> >> >> >>> > >> So my question is..... Is there any other possible use for
> >such
> >> >> a
> >> >> >>> setup?
> >> >> >>> > >> I would be willing to get involved in an open source
> >freeware,
> >> >> >>> > >ad/donation
> >> >> >>> > >> supported project for this if there was.
> >> >> >>> > >>
> >> >> >>> > >> Chuck
> >> >> >>> > >>
> >> >> >>> > >>
> >> >> >>> > >>
> >> >> >>> > >>
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>
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