Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Rant: The Pro Audio Industry is Full of Shit!!
| Rant: The Pro Audio Industry is Full of Shit!! [message #78694] |
Sat, 20 January 2007 12:40  |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
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Senior Member |
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Ladie and gentlemen,in the year of Lord 2007 AD, we seem to be caught in a
quagmire or a stomp in the road as far as new , cool , and usefull product
development in the Pro audio industry.
Maybe that's the problem, the name "Pro -Audio". It's a given, that todays
producs are for the "bed-room, garage band types.
On the so called High-End, we have over-hyped, China made products that are
being passed off @ 5000 percent mark-up..
All the was to the lower (mass) end, with those same China manufacturers
producing these products @ an 5000 percent markup..
What happend to innovation? Backin 1996 all the way to 2000, we were on a
roll, with great products like Emu Paris, Digi's Pro Tools , Steinberg' VST,
Motus break thur firw-wire protocols.
Today we have , half-baked , half-thought out, rediculous performance claims..ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I too a look the 2007 Namm offerings..And with out a doubt, I could not find
one manufacurer, With BALLLS!!!!!!
Each product was play it safe pruduct, that will FAIL!!! because these spineliee
maufacturers fail to provide the tools and asked for products that we want.
Just Bull-shitt after Bull-shit products!!!
This industry has gotten most of you on their "8 input/output crack".. PCI
card here, add another there.each card weaker than the next. add and 8 i.o
converter here and there..Then, you must upgrade your CPU, because "You
know we promised you tha Native Processing is the future??( That stated back
in 1996).. Well , it 11 years later, and Native is a choice, but DSP is still
vibrant..
Where is this industry going?? yamahe , Roland & Korg, asking continuously
for $3k for keyboard workstations that still uses the same sound set 5-10
years ago...
So called pro-audio companies (UAD and many others) all hell bent on using
20 year old dsp chips(because) they can get them for next to nothing, but
charge us up the ass for their undr powered piece of shit!!
And, so goes the American way of Business.. Business 101. Buy cheap shit,
sell for a great profit, then change the color and name of said product,
and brand it an update. Charge even more, and continue this trend until the
buyers figures it all out..Or some othe r(New) company comes in with some
cool new innovation, thus making that old comapny step up it's game..
I'm tired of it all. Just plain tired of all the BS in this industry.
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| Re: Rant: The Pro Audio Industry is Full of Shit!! [message #78696 is a reply to message #78694] |
Sat, 20 January 2007 13:22  |
gene lennon
Messages: 565
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>Ladie and gentlemen,in the year of Lord 2007 AD, we seem to be caught in
a
>quagmire or a stomp in the road as far as new , cool , and usefull product
>development in the Pro audio industry.,,,
I can’t argue that this NAMM seems to be singularly without major innovation,
but it is not the entire story.
Looking back at my history as musician than engineer, then song writer then
producer, I never thought in a million years that I would have the kind of
powerful tools I currently have at my disposal. Not even counting the fact
that most of this power is also reasonably affordable, the new tools are
amazing.
None of this seems to have a positive affect on the majority of music being
produced today, but that is a completely separate issue.
The gear is great. You can use classic multi-tracks & consoles if you like
(and they are available at a small fraction of their original cost) or you
can go with the latest gee-whiz DAW.
Manufactures are catering to the semi-pro market because that is the only
market that is growing. But high-end gear, even hand built boutique gear
is also being offered. As an example, I can’t think of any time in the past
that so many high-end mic preamps were available.
If you hate the cheep shit, don’t get cheep shit. Aurora Audio, Rupert Neve,
Millennia, Manley and many others make good gear.
In terms of major innovations, are any of the new innovations responsible
for better music, or even better sounding recordings? I think not.
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| Re: Rant: The Pro Audio Industry is Full of Shit!! [message #78697 is a reply to message #78694] |
Sat, 20 January 2007 12:31 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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It doesn't seem like an earthshaking NAMM.
The most interesting things I've seen from NAMM reports so far have been
the Roland VG-99 (not sure what the benefit is to the table top design,
though) and the AXON AX 50 USB.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
LaMont wrote:
> Ladie and gentlemen,in the year of Lord 2007 AD, we seem to be caught in a
> quagmire or a stomp in the road as far as new , cool , and usefull product
> development in the Pro audio industry.
>
> Maybe that's the problem, the name "Pro -Audio". It's a given, that todays
> producs are for the "bed-room, garage band types.
>
> On the so called High-End, we have over-hyped, China made products that are
> being passed off @ 5000 percent mark-up..
>
> All the was to the lower (mass) end, with those same China manufacturers
> producing these products @ an 5000 percent markup..
>
> What happend to innovation? Backin 1996 all the way to 2000, we were on a
> roll, with great products like Emu Paris, Digi's Pro Tools , Steinberg' VST,
> Motus break thur firw-wire protocols.
>
> Today we have , half-baked , half-thought out, rediculous performance claims..ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> I too a look the 2007 Namm offerings..And with out a doubt, I could not find
> one manufacurer, With BALLLS!!!!!!
>
> Each product was play it safe pruduct, that will FAIL!!! because these spineliee
> maufacturers fail to provide the tools and asked for products that we want.
> Just Bull-shitt after Bull-shit products!!!
>
> This industry has gotten most of you on their "8 input/output crack".. PCI
> card here, add another there.each card weaker than the next. add and 8 i.o
> converter here and there..Then, you must upgrade your CPU, because "You
> know we promised you tha Native Processing is the future??( That stated back
> in 1996).. Well , it 11 years later, and Native is a choice, but DSP is still
> vibrant..
>
> Where is this industry going?? yamahe , Roland & Korg, asking continuously
> for $3k for keyboard workstations that still uses the same sound set 5-10
> years ago...
>
> So called pro-audio companies (UAD and many others) all hell bent on using
> 20 year old dsp chips(because) they can get them for next to nothing, but
> charge us up the ass for their undr powered piece of shit!!
>
> And, so goes the American way of Business.. Business 101. Buy cheap shit,
> sell for a great profit, then change the color and name of said product,
> and brand it an update. Charge even more, and continue this trend until the
> buyers figures it all out..Or some othe r(New) company comes in with some
> cool new innovation, thus making that old comapny step up it's game..
>
> I'm tired of it all. Just plain tired of all the BS in this industry.
>
>
>
>
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| Re: Rant: The Pro Audio Industry is Full of Shit!! [message #78704 is a reply to message #78694] |
Sat, 20 January 2007 14:45 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
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Senior Member |
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LaMont
I think you've got Three choices. One get twenty five people to write letters
to manufactures. Keep on it, and make sure you pick wisely! Number two,
just deal with it. Number three, get the funding, go start the company and
build it! That would be putting your money where your mouth is. That is
a tuff thing to do, but not impossible.
James
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>Ladie and gentlemen,in the year of Lord 2007 AD, we seem to be caught in
a
>quagmire or a stomp in the road as far as new , cool , and usefull product
>development in the Pro audio industry.
>
>Maybe that's the problem, the name "Pro -Audio". It's a given, that todays
>producs are for the "bed-room, garage band types.
>
>On the so called High-End, we have over-hyped, China made products that
are
>being passed off @ 5000 percent mark-up..
>
>All the was to the lower (mass) end, with those same China manufacturers
>producing these products @ an 5000 percent markup..
>
>What happend to innovation? Backin 1996 all the way to 2000, we were on
a
>roll, with great products like Emu Paris, Digi's Pro Tools , Steinberg'
VST,
>Motus break thur firw-wire protocols.
>
>Today we have , half-baked , half-thought out, rediculous performance claims..ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>I too a look the 2007 Namm offerings..And with out a doubt, I could not
find
>one manufacurer, With BALLLS!!!!!!
>
>Each product was play it safe pruduct, that will FAIL!!! because these
spineliee
>maufacturers fail to provide the tools and asked for products that we want.
>Just Bull-shitt after Bull-shit products!!!
>
>This industry has gotten most of you on their "8 input/output crack".. PCI
>card here, add another there.each card weaker than the next. add and 8
i.o
>converter here and there..Then, you must upgrade your CPU, because "You
>know we promised you tha Native Processing is the future??( That stated
back
>in 1996).. Well , it 11 years later, and Native is a choice, but DSP is
still
>vibrant..
>
>Where is this industry going?? yamahe , Roland & Korg, asking continuously
>for $3k for keyboard workstations that still uses the same sound set 5-10
>years ago...
>
>So called pro-audio companies (UAD and many others) all hell bent on using
>20 year old dsp chips(because) they can get them for next to nothing, but
>charge us up the ass for their undr powered piece of shit!!
>
>And, so goes the American way of Business.. Business 101. Buy cheap shit,
>sell for a great profit, then change the color and name of said product,
>and brand it an update. Charge even more, and continue this trend until
the
>buyers figures it all out..Or some othe r(New) company comes in with some
>cool new innovation, thus making that old comapny step up it's game..
>
>I'm tired of it all. Just plain tired of all the BS in this industry.
>
>
>
>
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| Re: Rant: The Pro Audio Industry is Full of Shit!! [message #78735 is a reply to message #78704] |
Sun, 21 January 2007 00:50 |
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Thanks James .. Good reasonable advice. I often fantasise about having a meeting
with people from our Future (say 1000 years ahead). And this meeting I aske
them to not only fix today DAW Apps, but rebuild Paris (hardware & software)
withtheir current CPU chips. Yeah I know.. Weired..Hey , It's dream and fanstasy.
Ge your own.. :) Lol!
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>LaMont
>
>I think you've got Three choices. One get twenty five people to write letters
>to manufactures. Keep on it, and make sure you pick wisely! Number two,
>just deal with it. Number three, get the funding, go start the company
and
>build it! That would be putting your money where your mouth is. That is
>a tuff thing to do, but not impossible.
>
>James
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>
>>Ladie and gentlemen,in the year of Lord 2007 AD, we seem to be caught in
>a
>>quagmire or a stomp in the road as far as new , cool , and usefull product
>>development in the Pro audio industry.
>>
>>Maybe that's the problem, the name "Pro -Audio". It's a given, that todays
>>producs are for the "bed-room, garage band types.
>>
>>On the so called High-End, we have over-hyped, China made products that
>are
>>being passed off @ 5000 percent mark-up..
>>
>>All the was to the lower (mass) end, with those same China manufacturers
>>producing these products @ an 5000 percent markup..
>>
>>What happend to innovation? Backin 1996 all the way to 2000, we were on
>a
>>roll, with great products like Emu Paris, Digi's Pro Tools , Steinberg'
>VST,
>>Motus break thur firw-wire protocols.
>>
>>Today we have , half-baked , half-thought out, rediculous performance claims..ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>I too a look the 2007 Namm offerings..And with out a doubt, I could not
>find
>>one manufacurer, With BALLLS!!!!!!
>>
>>Each product was play it safe pruduct, that will FAIL!!! because these
>spineliee
>>maufacturers fail to provide the tools and asked for products that we want.
>>Just Bull-shitt after Bull-shit products!!!
>>
>>This industry has gotten most of you on their "8 input/output crack"..
PCI
>>card here, add another there.each card weaker than the next. add and 8
>i.o
>>converter here and there..Then, you must upgrade your CPU, because "You
>>know we promised you tha Native Processing is the future??( That stated
>back
>>in 1996).. Well , it 11 years later, and Native is a choice, but DSP is
>still
>>vibrant..
>>
>>Where is this industry going?? yamahe , Roland & Korg, asking continuously
>>for $3k for keyboard workstations that still uses the same sound set 5-10
>>years ago...
>>
>>So called pro-audio companies (UAD and many others) all hell bent on using
>>20 year old dsp chips(because) they can get them for next to nothing, but
>>charge us up the ass for their undr powered piece of shit!!
>>
>>And, so goes the American way of Business.. Business 101. Buy cheap shit,
>>sell for a great profit, then change the color and name of said product,
>>and brand it an update. Charge even more, and continue this trend until
>the
>>buyers figures it all out..Or some othe r(New) company comes in with some
>>cool new innovation, thus making that old comapny step up it's game..
>>
>>I'm tired of it all. Just plain tired of all the BS in this industry.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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| Re: The Pro Audio Industry is Full of Shit!! [message #78826 is a reply to message #78694] |
Mon, 22 January 2007 12:08 |
Doug Wellington
Messages: 251
Registered: June 2005
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:45b27015$1@linux...
> Ladie and gentlemen,in the year of Lord 2007 AD, we seem to be caught in a
> quagmire or a stomp in the road as far as new , cool , and usefull product
> development in the Pro audio industry.
I think I understand the sentiment, but I wonder how many times you can
reinvent a recording system - has the basic idea behind a preamp, a
compressor or a recorded track changed much lately? I do see changes in the
way recording technology is being used - I was talking to an engineer at
NAMM, and he was saying that he has changed the way he works again to
accomodate recent systems. I guess the earliest stage of recording was when
you printed tracks with everything already on them, then you might adjust
track levels on the way back out, but other than that, the output was pretty
much directly related to the input. Then we got to the stage where we could
record dry tracks and really manipulate them on the way back out, especially
with the big half-million dollar multi-channel consoles. Now though, with
the current trends of down-sized studios, mixing in the box digitally, and
having no computer hardware "personality", no headroom, etc, he was saying
they try to record everything in the old way, with the best mics, preamps
and effects on the way in...
While I don't see a lot of change in the basic ideas of pro audio recording,
I really like what I'm seeing from sound creation people, for example Synful
and Audio Impressions. Both of them are in the orchestral sound business -
Synful is a two person show (husband and wife) and is very very impressive
for how small the software is and how good it sounds, especially for legato
lines. Audio Impressions has changed the way orchestral libraries are
played - when you play a single note, an entire section plays that note.
When you play two notes, half the players sound for each note. Three notes
uses a third of the section, four use a quarter, etc. (Real divisi
simulation...) Most orchestral libraries are samples of entire sections,
which means one note comes from the entire section, two notes sounds like
two full sections, etc.
I suppose you could argue that it's still "just sampling," but I've seen a
lot of improvements over the old libraries that had one velocity layer and a
single sample was pitch shifted over several keys. With more memory, not
only can we sample each key, but we can have multiple samples for different
velocity levels. (Check out TBO from Sampletekk for example- it has 93
samples per note!) And with the new version of Native Instruments Kontakt
sampler, you can now write program scripts to change how samples are played
back - there is a really cool script for legato playing as well as a couple
scripts to get rid of the "machine gun" effect that plagues repeated single
notes.
I think innovation is still out there - you just don't usually find it at
the big vendors...
Doug
http://www.parisfaqs.com
http://www.parisfaqs.com
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| Re: The Pro Audio Industry is Full of Shit!! [message #78881 is a reply to message #78826] |
Tue, 23 January 2007 13:39 |
LAMont[3]
Messages: 5
Registered: August 2006
|
Junior Member |
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Hey Doug, I agree with. We've following Audio Impression since their winter
namm annoucement.
I guess what I'm ticked off with is the lack of real innovation in the Middle-
group studio. Since PAris, their has been no real replacement for that market
segment.
(Others) read: Don't bring up the Native talk..Due to the fact, that staying
on the Native road is very Very VERY Expensive. Because you are always buying
or updating a new Mac or PC. Manwhile, a person with a Mac OS9 and a PPC
with Win 98Se using Paris still can alot of DAW Muscle..
"Doug Wellington" <doug@parisfaqs.com> wrote:
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:45b27015$1@linux...
>> Ladie and gentlemen,in the year of Lord 2007 AD, we seem to be caught
in a
>> quagmire or a stomp in the road as far as new , cool , and usefull product
>> development in the Pro audio industry.
>
>I think I understand the sentiment, but I wonder how many times you can
>reinvent a recording system - has the basic idea behind a preamp, a
>compressor or a recorded track changed much lately? I do see changes in
the
>way recording technology is being used - I was talking to an engineer at
>NAMM, and he was saying that he has changed the way he works again to
>accomodate recent systems. I guess the earliest stage of recording was
when
>you printed tracks with everything already on them, then you might adjust
>track levels on the way back out, but other than that, the output was pretty
>much directly related to the input. Then we got to the stage where we could
>record dry tracks and really manipulate them on the way back out, especially
>with the big half-million dollar multi-channel consoles. Now though, with
>the current trends of down-sized studios, mixing in the box digitally, and
>having no computer hardware "personality", no headroom, etc, he was saying
>they try to record everything in the old way, with the best mics, preamps
>and effects on the way in...
>
>While I don't see a lot of change in the basic ideas of pro audio recording,
>I really like what I'm seeing from sound creation people, for example Synful
>and Audio Impressions. Both of them are in the orchestral sound business
-
>Synful is a two person show (husband and wife) and is very very impressive
>for how small the software is and how good it sounds, especially for legato
>lines. Audio Impressions has changed the way orchestral libraries are
>played - when you play a single note, an entire section plays that note.
>When you play two notes, half the players sound for each note. Three notes
>uses a third of the section, four use a quarter, etc. (Real divisi
>simulation...) Most orchestral libraries are samples of entire sections,
>which means one note comes from the entire section, two notes sounds like
>two full sections, etc.
>
>I suppose you could argue that it's still "just sampling," but I've seen
a
>lot of improvements over the old libraries that had one velocity layer and
a
>single sample was pitch shifted over several keys. With more memory, not
>only can we sample each key, but we can have multiple samples for different
>velocity levels. (Check out TBO from Sampletekk for example- it has 93
>samples per note!) And with the new version of Native Instruments Kontakt
>sampler, you can now write program scripts to change how samples are played
>back - there is a really cool script for legato playing as well as a couple
>scripts to get rid of the "machine gun" effect that plagues repeated single
>notes.
>
>I think innovation is still out there - you just don't usually find it at
>the big vendors...
>
>Doug
>
>http://www.parisfaqs.com
>
>
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| Re: The Pro Audio Industry is Full of Shit!! [message #78913 is a reply to message #78881] |
Wed, 24 January 2007 09:29 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hey LaMont,
I think there _is_ a replacement, which is native, it's just that you don't
like it. And I think very few companies are going into that market because
it's the low end Digi/RME land and it's pretty hard to take on those folks.
So it's not like the midrange is being ignored, it's that the midrange is
native and you want DSP.
TCB
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritch.net> wrote:
>
>Hey Doug, I agree with. We've following Audio Impression since their winter
>namm annoucement.
>
>I guess what I'm ticked off with is the lack of real innovation in the Middle-
>group studio. Since PAris, their has been no real replacement for that market
>segment.
>
>(Others) read: Don't bring up the Native talk..Due to the fact, that staying
>on the Native road is very Very VERY Expensive. Because you are always buying
>or updating a new Mac or PC. Manwhile, a person with a Mac OS9 and a PPC
>with Win 98Se using Paris still can alot of DAW Muscle..
>
>"Doug Wellington" <doug@parisfaqs.com> wrote:
>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:45b27015$1@linux...
>>> Ladie and gentlemen,in the year of Lord 2007 AD, we seem to be caught
>in a
>>> quagmire or a stomp in the road as far as new , cool , and usefull product
>>> development in the Pro audio industry.
>>
>>I think I understand the sentiment, but I wonder how many times you can
>
>>reinvent a recording system - has the basic idea behind a preamp, a
>>compressor or a recorded track changed much lately? I do see changes in
>the
>>way recording technology is being used - I was talking to an engineer at
>
>>NAMM, and he was saying that he has changed the way he works again to
>>accomodate recent systems. I guess the earliest stage of recording was
>when
>>you printed tracks with everything already on them, then you might adjust
>
>>track levels on the way back out, but other than that, the output was pretty
>
>>much directly related to the input. Then we got to the stage where we
could
>
>>record dry tracks and really manipulate them on the way back out, especially
>
>>with the big half-million dollar multi-channel consoles. Now though, with
>
>>the current trends of down-sized studios, mixing in the box digitally,
and
>
>>having no computer hardware "personality", no headroom, etc, he was saying
>
>>they try to record everything in the old way, with the best mics, preamps
>
>>and effects on the way in...
>>
>>While I don't see a lot of change in the basic ideas of pro audio recording,
>
>>I really like what I'm seeing from sound creation people, for example Synful
>
>>and Audio Impressions. Both of them are in the orchestral sound business
>-
>>Synful is a two person show (husband and wife) and is very very impressive
>
>>for how small the software is and how good it sounds, especially for legato
>
>>lines. Audio Impressions has changed the way orchestral libraries are
>>played - when you play a single note, an entire section plays that note.
>
>>When you play two notes, half the players sound for each note. Three notes
>
>>uses a third of the section, four use a quarter, etc. (Real divisi
>>simulation...) Most orchestral libraries are samples of entire sections,
>
>>which means one note comes from the entire section, two notes sounds like
>
>>two full sections, etc.
>>
>>I suppose you could argue that it's still "just sampling," but I've seen
>a
>>lot of improvements over the old libraries that had one velocity layer
and
>a
>>single sample was pitch shifted over several keys. With more memory, not
>
>>only can we sample each key, but we can have multiple samples for different
>
>>velocity levels. (Check out TBO from Sampletekk for example- it has 93
>
>>samples per note!) And with the new version of Native Instruments Kontakt
>
>>sampler, you can now write program scripts to change how samples are played
>
>>back - there is a really cool script for legato playing as well as a couple
>
>>scripts to get rid of the "machine gun" effect that plagues repeated single
>
>>notes.
>>
>>I think innovation is still out there - you just don't usually find it
at
>
>>the big vendors...
>>
>>Doug
>>
>>http://www.parisfaqs.com
>>
>>
>
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