Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » My god!!
| Re: My god!! [message #83446 is a reply to message #83246] |
Thu, 19 April 2007 23:26   |
Sarah
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2007
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OK Neil,
Did you see the front page of the New York Times? The picture of that
psycho idiot pointing his two pistols? And I assume you've seen the ad
nauseum airplay his pathetic video on our so-called "news media." When I
said I was attacking a culture that makes heros of killers, that's exactly
what I was talking about, and exactly what I was expecting. Perhaps I
should have used the word "murderers" to avoid confusion with righteous,
kick-ass tough guys who "protect the weak" by killing the bad guys.
Where are the Mongol Hordes when we really need them?
S
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:4624cf3b$1@linux...
>
> "Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>Oh gimme a break. I'm not attacking "men," I'm attacking a culture that
>
>>makes heros of killers.
>
> Well, in order to escape that, you'd need to become part of
> some entirely diffeent species. Prior to our current, "evil",
> modern culture even being on the horizon, the ONLY heroes were
> killers - you didn't become leader of the tribe or a kingdom or
> the Roman Empire a Mongol Horde if you didn't "kill your way
> there" one way or the other, either by proving your self in
> battle, or murdering the hated bastard that was in your way,
> earning some applause & respect for awhile, until YOU became
> the bastard & someone killed you LOL!
>
> Yeah, pity our modern society that produces pop art that
> glorifies guys that protect the weak, whether it's with mad
> kung-fu skilz or guns... we'd be much better off without all
> the influences our society produces, like comic books, movies,
> running water and vaccines.
>
> Neil
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| Re: My god!! [message #83448 is a reply to message #83444] |
Fri, 20 April 2007 00:59 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>Holy crap. You are just going off like Yosemite Sam here because I said,
"I
>think we need to seriously change the way we raise our male children," and
>you have no idea what kind of changes I'm even talking about. You just
take
>off on a rant about "women's idea of what a man should be" as though there
>is some sort of established standard, assuming angrily that I am in
>agreement with this undefined standard.
And you still haven't gotten it. When you generalize to men, or male
children from the actions of a psychopath, you slander millions of good
people.
>And then, to top it off, you refer me to a book that says essentially that
>boys are in trouble and need to be raised differently!
Yes, different from what women say or think. All women. sorry...
You really cannot understand. I have 2 daughters, and what I can do
for them is to be the best man I can. I cannot tell them how to be
women. Being a woman is an utter mystery to me, as it is to all men.
I sure as heck can help them make sense of men though, and I
can try to be honorable so they will look for that trait in a husband.
>From my post of 4/17/2007 1:58 AM: "Instead of thwarting their natural
>aggression and energy, we should teach them to channel it into creative,
>constructive activity."
>
>From Christina Hoff Sommers' book The War Against Boys: "No one denies
that
>boys' aggressive tendencies must be checked and channeled in constructive
>ways. Boys need discipline, respect, and moral guidance. Boys need love
and
>tolerant understanding."
>
>Gosh, is it my imagination, or is there a similarity in those two
>assertions?
As there are between any individual and most any book at some point
or another. The book strongly critques the negative effects of feminism
on the raising and lives of boys. Agree, or are you just mining quotes?
She sees it as I do, that it is not a zero-sum game, but that power given
to women is not taken from men, and that the raising of the quality of
women's lives does not require the denigration of men. Agree?
>Regarding "The raising of boys plays no role in the issue of crazy mass
>murderers. Surely you know this by now?" . . . Are we talking about planet
>Earth here? Third from the sun? Mostly water, kinda pretty? Are you
>seriously going to deny that there are any cultural influences contributing
>to school shootings, gang violence, gay bashings, the "going postal"
>phenomenon, etc? Next you'll deny the relationship of childhood abuse to
>violent behavior.
I see, so the raising of boys is like abuse, but not as far on the same
scale?
Ever notice that the same cultural influences affect boys
radically differently? Some bash gays and some stand up and defend
them? Did you ever notice how much really good raising of boys there
is going on? Maybe only a few people need to change their rearing
methods. Perhaps you simply need to amend your statement to a
gender-neutral one? Perhaps a giant social engineering project (gee
aren't we just starting to see the folly of the last one?) isn't really what
is
needed at all, and might make things worse, regardless of our intentions?
And there are, and will be, the organically insane,
and the just plain evil that exist as well.
I can see no excuse for saying that an entire society needs to change
the way they raise boys in the context of this mass murder. I think it
is a terrible slander.
>And what's with this huge button on "allowing boys to cry"? Jeez, get over
>it. People cry. It's an emotional response. Doesn't make a man less
>manly.
A good remale response. Actually, sometimes it does. Sometimes a man
has to not cry, and do the hard thing to save a life. Sometimes a man
and a woman too, has to stop crying and be a sheepdog and go fight
some wolves. Men are generally physically and emotionally stronger
and it falls to us to get out of bed and go deal with the asshole who
broke in downstairs and the cops are 30 minites away... I respect women
in the extreme who can defend themselves effectively, but they are at the
far end of the bell curve. For men, we must know when not to cry, and
our standards will different from women's. If I had a son, I would let
him know the difference, and I absolutely would not let him cry when
he needs to get the job done. See, I don't even care if you agree. It's
none
of your damn business. You will never understand. A woman telling
men how to live and how to feel ends up with something like a caricature
of a man because she is clueless. Same for men telling women how to
behave. We men just make asshats of ourselves when we do that and
some of us finally figgered it out. Your turn.
>"No one denies that boys' aggressive tendencies must be checked and
>channeled in constructive ways." Well, Christina, I know this one guy who
>might deny that . . .
And every father of a boy that I know does exactly that, but in the
way of men, not women, and no one should ever slander those good
fathers by saying what you said in the context of mass murder.
Blame it on Cho, not on men, not on society, not on Judas Priest, and
not on how we raise boys.
Now read the rest of the book please. It's quite good.
>Sarah Dworkin
YIPES! What a thought... ! The visual morph I got from reading that
will give me nightmares for days...
You are much better looking
DC
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| Re: My god!! [message #83459 is a reply to message #83446] |
Fri, 20 April 2007 07:02 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
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Senior Member |
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> Where are the Mongol Hordes when we really need them?
Out doing Capitol One commercials these days.
AA
Sorry, we needed some humor.
"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote in message news:46285de3@linux...
> OK Neil,
>
> Did you see the front page of the New York Times? The picture of that
> psycho idiot pointing his two pistols? And I assume you've seen the ad
> nauseum airplay his pathetic video on our so-called "news media." When I
> said I was attacking a culture that makes heros of killers, that's exactly
> what I was talking about, and exactly what I was expecting. Perhaps I
> should have used the word "murderers" to avoid confusion with righteous,
> kick-ass tough guys who "protect the weak" by killing the bad guys.
>
> Where are the Mongol Hordes when we really need them?
>
> S
>
>
> "Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:4624cf3b$1@linux...
>>
>> "Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>>Oh gimme a break. I'm not attacking "men," I'm attacking a culture that
>>
>>>makes heros of killers.
>>
>> Well, in order to escape that, you'd need to become part of
>> some entirely diffeent species. Prior to our current, "evil",
>> modern culture even being on the horizon, the ONLY heroes were
>> killers - you didn't become leader of the tribe or a kingdom or
>> the Roman Empire a Mongol Horde if you didn't "kill your way
>> there" one way or the other, either by proving your self in
>> battle, or murdering the hated bastard that was in your way,
>> earning some applause & respect for awhile, until YOU became
>> the bastard & someone killed you LOL!
>>
>> Yeah, pity our modern society that produces pop art that
>> glorifies guys that protect the weak, whether it's with mad
>> kung-fu skilz or guns... we'd be much better off without all
>> the influences our society produces, like comic books, movies,
>> running water and vaccines.
>>
>> Neil
>
>
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| Re: My god!! [message #83476 is a reply to message #83457] |
Fri, 20 April 2007 11:21 |
duncan
Messages: 123
Registered: November 2006
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Senior Member |
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Agreed! Absolutely. We'd do well in this country to divest ourselves
of the notion that the establishment of a "pecking order" is somehow a
natural and necessary function of group dynamics in children. Yes,
such behavior shows up where it's allowed (or where it's expected).
But it doesn't have to be this way.
My kids have had the good fortune to attend a small private school
that has a core philosophy based on mutual respect and individual
rights. Kids feel safe, happy, accepted, and the inevitable conflicts
are worked through in a forthright way that often as not makes friends
out of antagonists. I've been involved with this school for eleven
years now, and have seen this positive approach succeed with sour and
withdrawn children time and time again.
Not to suggest that simple justice will prevent mental illness -- but,
man, it's a great place to start.
-- chas.
On 21 Apr 2007 00:03:59 +1000, "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070419/D8OJTJD02.html
>
>One thing we must absolutely show no tolerance for is bullying in
>high school and elementary. And today, girls bully about as well as boys.
>
>One of the few things that is consistent in young mass murderers is
>having been bullied.
>
>Would he have done this had he not been bullied? Who can say?
>He was pretty crazy. But it seems like an area that might make a
>difference.
>
>DC
>
>
>DC
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| Re: My god!! [message #83481 is a reply to message #83476] |
Fri, 20 April 2007 10:52 |
John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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I wish my job had those qualities.
Chas. Duncan wrote:
> Agreed! Absolutely. We'd do well in this country to divest ourselves
> of the notion that the establishment of a "pecking order" is somehow a
> natural and necessary function of group dynamics in children. Yes,
> such behavior shows up where it's allowed (or where it's expected).
> But it doesn't have to be this way.
>
> My kids have had the good fortune to attend a small private school
> that has a core philosophy based on mutual respect and individual
> rights. Kids feel safe, happy, accepted, and the inevitable conflicts
> are worked through in a forthright way that often as not makes friends
> out of antagonists. I've been involved with this school for eleven
> years now, and have seen this positive approach succeed with sour and
> withdrawn children time and time again.
>
> Not to suggest that simple justice will prevent mental illness -- but,
> man, it's a great place to start.
>
> -- chas.
>
>
> On 21 Apr 2007 00:03:59 +1000, "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>> http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070419/D8OJTJD02.html
>>
>> One thing we must absolutely show no tolerance for is bullying in
>> high school and elementary. And today, girls bully about as well as boys.
>>
>> One of the few things that is consistent in young mass murderers is
>> having been bullied.
>>
>> Would he have done this had he not been bullied? Who can say?
>> He was pretty crazy. But it seems like an area that might make a
>> difference.
>>
>> DC
>>
>>
>> DC
>
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| Re: My god!! [message #83505 is a reply to message #83481] |
Fri, 20 April 2007 19:35 |
duncan
Messages: 123
Registered: November 2006
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Senior Member |
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The workplace is another area where a little attention to human
dignity would go a long way -- and has been shown to be profitable as
well...
-- maybe it's time to jump ship...
-- chas.
On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 13:52:33 -0400, John <no@no.com> wrote:
>I wish my job had those qualities.
>
>Chas. Duncan wrote:
>> Agreed! Absolutely. We'd do well in this country to divest ourselves
>> of the notion that the establishment of a "pecking order" is somehow a
>> natural and necessary function of group dynamics in children. Yes,
>> such behavior shows up where it's allowed (or where it's expected).
>> But it doesn't have to be this way.
>>
>> My kids have had the good fortune to attend a small private school
>> that has a core philosophy based on mutual respect and individual
>> rights. Kids feel safe, happy, accepted, and the inevitable conflicts
>> are worked through in a forthright way that often as not makes friends
>> out of antagonists. I've been involved with this school for eleven
>> years now, and have seen this positive approach succeed with sour and
>> withdrawn children time and time again.
>>
>> Not to suggest that simple justice will prevent mental illness -- but,
>> man, it's a great place to start.
>>
>> -- chas.
>>
>>
>> On 21 Apr 2007 00:03:59 +1000, "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>
>>> http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070419/D8OJTJD02.html
>>>
>>> One thing we must absolutely show no tolerance for is bullying in
>>> high school and elementary. And today, girls bully about as well as boys.
>>>
>>> One of the few things that is consistent in young mass murderers is
>>> having been bullied.
>>>
>>> Would he have done this had he not been bullied? Who can say?
>>> He was pretty crazy. But it seems like an area that might make a
>>> difference.
>>>
>>> DC
>>>
>>>
>>> DC
>>
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