Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » HOLY *****!!!!!!-what a difference!!!
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| Re: HOLY *****!!!!!!-what a difference!!! [message #83590 is a reply to message #83589] |
Mon, 23 April 2007 12:55   |
Tom Bruhl
Messages: 1368
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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Deej,
I've got that Silicon SATA on my Paris rig and it blows. Chris L. =
suggested the same.
I have had much better luck with standard ide.
I'm glad you're not bailing so quickly!
Tom
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message =
news:462d0cdc$1@linux...
Well, from all of my previous posts, it's pretty obvious that I've =
been=20
struggling with some issues with my system being able to track lots of =
live=20
inputs while monitoring previously recorded ones at low latency with =
ASIO=20
direct monitoring turned off.
I've been doing some tweaking here this morning aand I just turned off =
that=20
evil ****'in SIL SATA raid controller in the BIOS and pulled my =
Raptors off=20
the mobo.
Something rather shocking has happened.
I am currently playing back a 12 track project with Drumagog and =
various=20
UAD-1 plugins instantiated (not a huge load, but enough to accomplish =
some=20
ear candy which is all what I need here during dub sessions before the =
real=20
mixing begins) while recording 20 live inputs at 64k buffers (1.5ms),=20
punching in and out at will. I can definitely live with 1.5ms latency.
The Cubase 4 CPU meter is bouncing along at approximately 50% usage.
I haven't configured the Control room mode for tracking just yet, but =
unless=20
creating a few busses is a substantial CPU hit, I may be able to =
accomplish=20
what I need here with what I've got right now...............of course, =
this=20
will require me not to spend $2000.00 on a computer upgrade and that's =
never=20
good.
;o)=20
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Deej,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've got that Silicon SATA on my Paris =
rig and it=20
blows. Chris L. suggested the same.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have had much better luck with =
</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>standard ide.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm glad you're not bailing so=20
quickly!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"DJ" <<A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com">www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
href=3D"news:462d0cdc$1@linux">news:462d0cdc$1@linux</A>...</DIV>Well, =
from all=20
of my previous posts, it's pretty obvious that I've been =
<BR>struggling with=20
some issues with my system being able to track lots of live <BR>inputs =
while=20
monitoring previously recorded ones at low latency with ASIO =
<BR>direct=20
monitoring turned off.<BR><BR>I've been doing some tweaking here this =
morning=20
aand I just turned off that <BR>evil ****'in SIL SATA raid controller =
in the=20
BIOS and pulled my Raptors off <BR>the mobo.<BR><BR>Something rather =
shocking=20
has happened.<BR><BR>I am currently playing back a 12 track project =
with=20
Drumagog and various <BR>UAD-1 plugins instantiated (not a huge load, =
but=20
enough to accomplish some <BR>ear candy which is all what I need here =
during=20
dub sessions before the real <BR>mixing begins) while recording 20 =
live inputs=20
at 64k buffers (1.5ms), <BR>punching in and out at will. I can =
definitely live=20
with 1.5ms latency.<BR><BR>The Cubase 4 CPU meter is bouncing along at =
approximately 50% usage.<BR><BR>I haven't configured the Control room =
mode for=20
tracking just yet, but unless <BR>creating a few busses is a =
substantial CPU=20
hit, I may be able to accomplish <BR>what I need here with what I've =
got right=20
now...............of course, this <BR>will require me not to spend =
$2000.00 on=20
a computer upgrade and that's never <BR>good.<BR><BR>;o) =
<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, =
and=20
you?<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/refer=
..html</A> </FONT></DIV></BODY ></HTML>
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| Re: HOLY *****!!!!!!-what a difference!!! [message #83591 is a reply to message #83590] |
Mon, 23 April 2007 13:09 |
brandon[2]
Messages: 380
Registered: June 2006
|
Senior Member |
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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so what are you using in place of the raptors?
I am running 2 10k rpm sata drives...1 OS and 1 audio.
I am running a 2.2gig AMD with 2gig ram. DDR400.
I am recording at 192k buffer and get clicks and pops when using VST =
realtime effects while tracking.
Cubase SX3.
--=20
Thanks,
Brandon=20
"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote in message =
news:462d101f@linux...
Deej,
I've got that Silicon SATA on my Paris rig and it blows. Chris L. =
suggested the same.
I have had much better luck with standard ide.
I'm glad you're not bailing so quickly!
Tom
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message =
news:462d0cdc$1@linux...
Well, from all of my previous posts, it's pretty obvious that I've =
been=20
struggling with some issues with my system being able to track lots =
of live=20
inputs while monitoring previously recorded ones at low latency with =
ASIO=20
direct monitoring turned off.
I've been doing some tweaking here this morning aand I just turned =
off that=20
evil ****'in SIL SATA raid controller in the BIOS and pulled my =
Raptors off=20
the mobo.
Something rather shocking has happened.
I am currently playing back a 12 track project with Drumagog and =
various=20
UAD-1 plugins instantiated (not a huge load, but enough to =
accomplish some=20
ear candy which is all what I need here during dub sessions before =
the real=20
mixing begins) while recording 20 live inputs at 64k buffers =
(1.5ms),=20
punching in and out at will. I can definitely live with 1.5ms =
latency.
The Cubase 4 CPU meter is bouncing along at approximately 50% usage.
I haven't configured the Control room mode for tracking just yet, =
but unless=20
creating a few busses is a substantial CPU hit, I may be able to =
accomplish=20
what I need here with what I've got right now...............of =
course, this=20
will require me not to spend $2000.00 on a computer upgrade and =
that's never=20
good.
;o)=20
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>so what are you using in place of the=20
raptors?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am running 2 10k rpm sata drives...1 OS and 1=20
audio.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am running a 2.2gig AMD with 2gig ram.=20
DDR400.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am recording at 192k buffer and get clicks and =
pops when=20
using VST realtime effects while tracking.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Cubase SX3.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>-- <BR>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Brandon </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Tom Bruhl" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>> wrote =
in message=20
<A href=3D"news:462d101f@linux">news:462d101f@linux</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Deej,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've got that Silicon SATA on my =
Paris rig and it=20
blows. Chris L. suggested the same.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have had much better luck with =
</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>standard ide.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm glad you're not bailing so=20
quickly!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"DJ" <<A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com">www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com</A>> =
wrote=20
in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:462d0cdc$1@linux">news:462d0cdc$1@linux</A>...</DIV>Well, =
from=20
all of my previous posts, it's pretty obvious that I've been =
<BR>struggling=20
with some issues with my system being able to track lots of live =
<BR>inputs=20
while monitoring previously recorded ones at low latency with ASIO=20
<BR>direct monitoring turned off.<BR><BR>I've been doing some =
tweaking here=20
this morning aand I just turned off that <BR>evil ****'in SIL SATA =
raid=20
controller in the BIOS and pulled my Raptors off <BR>the=20
mobo.<BR><BR>Something rather shocking has happened.<BR><BR>I am =
currently=20
playing back a 12 track project with Drumagog and various <BR>UAD-1 =
plugins=20
instantiated (not a huge load, but enough to accomplish some <BR>ear =
candy=20
which is all what I need here during dub sessions before the real =
<BR>mixing=20
begins) while recording 20 live inputs at 64k buffers (1.5ms), =
<BR>punching=20
in and out at will. I can definitely live with 1.5ms =
latency.<BR><BR>The=20
Cubase 4 CPU meter is bouncing along at approximately 50% =
usage.<BR><BR>I=20
haven't configured the Control room mode for tracking just yet, but =
unless=20
<BR>creating a few busses is a substantial CPU hit, I may be able to =
accomplish <BR>what I need here with what I've got right=20
now...............of course, this <BR>will require me not to spend =
$2000.00=20
on a computer upgrade and that's never <BR>good.<BR><BR>;o)=20
<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, =
and=20
you?<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/refer=
..html</A> </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE ></BODY></HTML>
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| Re: HOLY *****!!!!!!-what a difference!!! [message #83592 is a reply to message #83591] |
Mon, 23 April 2007 13:42 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
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I'm just using a standard ATA 133 IDE drive. Plenty of mojo for moderate =
track counts.=20
I've testing the *usability* of working at 32k buffers, 64k buffers and =
128k buffers here this morning. I don't have the horsepower to record =
and play back tracks simultaneously at 32k buffers (0.7 ms). I did test =
recording a single track at 0.7 ms without any tracks playing back and =
I can do it, but it sounds a teeny bit phasey to me. Not a show stopper =
but definitely a difference when compared to using ASIO direct =
monitoring. I can play back 12 tracks and record 20 tracks with up to =
around 25% of the DSP usage of my UAD-1's on the recorded tracks without =
problems and the Cubase DSP meter is around 70% (this is sorta' nervous =
territory where you don't want to be mousing around too much). Disable =
the UAD-1 and it drops down to between 50-60%. The audible phasing at =
64k (1.5ms latency) is about as noticable as it is at 32k buffers (0.7ms =
latency). What is disturbing to me is that I'm hearing audible phasing =
at all at 32k buffers. Even if I had a monster system that was able to =
stand up on it's hind legs and bark at 0.7ms latency, I would be hearing =
audible phasing. I'm sure this is because I'm not just hearing the =
latency that the buffer creates, I'm also hearing another 1.5 ms latency =
that is created by the AD/DA conversion. ASIO direct monitoring is much =
more equivalent to Paris latency (zero audible) because all you're =
getting is the appx 1.5 ms of the AD/DA conversion. Once it exceeds =
that, I can hear it.
After all this crap I've gone through, I think may just get myself =
another Furman HRM-16 mixer for my desktop so I can monitor the cue mix =
that is being sent to the rest of the studio via analog and see if I can =
create some kind of macro to switch all all track outputs to the main =
monitor bus in the CR when everyone comes trooping in from the tracking =
area to listen in the CR.
A bit more mousing around, but it's preferable to hearing latency in the =
cans. I won't be able to monitor with FX on pre recorded tracks, but =
this is just a fact of life with native systems I guess and isn't a deal =
killer. Looks like even the most powerful DAWs will be subject to at =
least 0.7 ms + 1.5 ms latency and I can clearly hear this.=20
Maybe my ears are just too friggin' sensitive and this teeny bit of =
latency wouldn't bother someone else. It sure bugs me though. I'll get =
Amy on the mic later on today and give this a go at 64k buffers (1.5ms). =
Her hearing is twice as sensitive as mine. If it doesn't bother her, =
then it likely won't bother anyone else....(but me)
;o)
"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:462d1367@linux...
so what are you using in place of the raptors?
I am running 2 10k rpm sata drives...1 OS and 1 audio.
I am running a 2.2gig AMD with 2gig ram. DDR400.
I am recording at 192k buffer and get clicks and pops when using VST =
realtime effects while tracking.
Cubase SX3.
--=20
Thanks,
Brandon=20
"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote in message =
news:462d101f@linux...
Deej,
I've got that Silicon SATA on my Paris rig and it blows. Chris L. =
suggested the same.
I have had much better luck with standard ide.
I'm glad you're not bailing so quickly!
Tom
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message =
news:462d0cdc$1@linux...
Well, from all of my previous posts, it's pretty obvious that I've =
been=20
struggling with some issues with my system being able to track =
lots of live=20
inputs while monitoring previously recorded ones at low latency =
with ASIO=20
direct monitoring turned off.
I've been doing some tweaking here this morning aand I just turned =
off that=20
evil ****'in SIL SATA raid controller in the BIOS and pulled my =
Raptors off=20
the mobo.
Something rather shocking has happened.
I am currently playing back a 12 track project with Drumagog and =
various=20
UAD-1 plugins instantiated (not a huge load, but enough to =
accomplish some=20
ear candy which is all what I need here during dub sessions before =
the real=20
mixing begins) while recording 20 live inputs at 64k buffers =
(1.5ms),=20
punching in and out at will. I can definitely live with 1.5ms =
latency.
The Cubase 4 CPU meter is bouncing along at approximately 50% =
usage.
I haven't configured the Control room mode for tracking just yet, =
but unless=20
creating a few busses is a substantial CPU hit, I may be able to =
accomplish=20
what I need here with what I've got right now...............of =
course, this=20
will require me not to spend $2000.00 on a computer upgrade and =
that's never=20
good.
;o)=20
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
------=_NextPart_000_011E_01C785B5.9660CE90
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm just using a standard ATA 133 IDE =
drive. Plenty=20
of mojo for moderate track counts. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've testing the *usability* of working =
at 32k=20
buffers, 64k buffers and 128k buffers here this morning. I don't have =
the=20
horsepower to record and play back tracks simultaneously at 32k buffers =
(0.7=20
ms). I did test recording a single track at 0.7 ms without =
any tracks=20
playing back and I can do it, but it sounds a teeny bit phasey to me. =
Not a show=20
stopper but definitely a difference when compared to using ASIO direct=20
monitoring. I can play back 12 tracks and record 20 tracks =
with up to=20
around 25% of the DSP usage of my UAD-1's on the recorded tracks without =
problems and the Cubase DSP meter is around 70% (this is sorta' nervous=20
territory where you don't want to be mousing around too much). Disable =
the UAD-1=20
and it drops down to between 50-60%. The audible phasing at 64k (1.5ms =
latency)=20
is about as noticable as it is at 32k buffers (0.7ms latency). What is=20
disturbing to me is that I'm hearing audible phasing at all at 32k =
buffers. Even=20
if I had a monster system that was able to stand up on it's hind legs =
and bark=20
at 0.7ms latency, I would be hearing audible phasing. I'm sure this is =
because=20
I'm not just hearing the latency that the buffer creates, I'm also =
hearing=20
another 1.5 ms latency that is created by the AD/DA conversion. =
</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>ASIO direct monitoring is much more equivalent to =
Paris=20
latency (zero audible) because all you're getting is the appx 1.5 ms of =
the=20
AD/DA conversion. Once it exceeds that, I can hear it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>After all this crap I've gone through, =
I think may=20
just get myself another Furman HRM-16 mixer for my desktop so I can =
monitor the=20
cue mix that is being sent to the rest of the studio via analog and see =
if I can=20
create some kind of macro to switch all all track outputs to the =
main=20
monitor bus in the CR when everyone comes trooping in from the tracking =
area to=20
listen in the CR.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A bit more mousing around, but it's =
preferable to=20
hearing latency in the cans. I won't be able to monitor with FX on pre =
recorded=20
tracks, but this is just a fact of life with native systems I guess and =
isn't a=20
deal killer. Looks like even the most powerful DAWs will be subject =
to at=20
least 0.7 ms + 1.5 ms latency and I can clearly hear this. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Maybe my ears are just too friggin' =
sensitive and=20
this teeny bit of latency wouldn't bother someone else. It sure bugs me =
though.=20
I'll get Amy on the mic later on today and give this a go at 64k buffers =
(1.5ms). Her hearing is twice as sensitive as mine. If it doesn't bother =
her,=20
then it likely won't bother anyone else....(but me)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>;o)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Brandon" <<A href=3D"mailto:a@a.com">a@a.com</A>> wrote in =
message <A=20
href=3D"news:462d1367@linux">news:462d1367@linux</A>...</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>so what are you using in place of the=20
raptors?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am running 2 10k rpm sata drives...1 OS and =
1=20
audio.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am running a 2.2gig AMD with 2gig ram.=20
DDR400.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am recording at 192k buffer and get clicks =
and pops=20
when using VST realtime effects while tracking.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Cubase SX3.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>-- <BR>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Brandon </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Tom Bruhl" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A =
href=3D"news:462d101f@linux">news:462d101f@linux</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Deej,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've got that Silicon SATA on my =
Paris rig and=20
it blows. Chris L. suggested the same.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have had much better luck with =
</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>standard ide.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm glad you're not bailing so=20
quickly!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"DJ" <<A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com">www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:462d0cdc$1@linux">news:462d0cdc$1@linux</A>...</DIV>Well, =
from=20
all of my previous posts, it's pretty obvious that I've been=20
<BR>struggling with some issues with my system being able to track =
lots of=20
live <BR>inputs while monitoring previously recorded ones at low =
latency=20
with ASIO <BR>direct monitoring turned off.<BR><BR>I've been doing =
some=20
tweaking here this morning aand I just turned off that <BR>evil =
****'in=20
SIL SATA raid controller in the BIOS and pulled my Raptors off =
<BR>the=20
mobo.<BR><BR>Something rather shocking has happened.<BR><BR>I am =
currently=20
playing back a 12 track project with Drumagog and various =
<BR>UAD-1=20
plugins instantiated (not a huge load, but enough to accomplish =
some=20
<BR>ear candy which is all what I need here during dub sessions =
before the=20
real <BR>mixing begins) while recording 20 live inputs at 64k =
buffers=20
(1.5ms), <BR>punching in and out at will. I can definitely live =
with 1.5ms=20
latency.<BR><BR>The Cubase 4 CPU meter is bouncing along at =
approximately=20
50% usage.<BR><BR>I haven't configured the Control room mode for =
tracking=20
just yet, but unless <BR>creating a few busses is a substantial =
CPU hit, I=20
may be able to accomplish <BR>what I need here with what I've got =
right=20
now...............of course, this <BR>will require me not to spend =
$2000.00 on a computer upgrade and that's never =
<BR>good.<BR><BR>;o)=20
<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight =
spam, and=20
you?<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/refer=
..html</A> </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE ></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY>=
</HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_011E_01C785B5.9660CE90--
|
|
|
|
| Re: HOLY *****!!!!!!-what a difference!!! [message #83594 is a reply to message #83592] |
Mon, 23 April 2007 14:29 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Deej, I just don't get how you're hearing ANY latency at all,
unless you have "ZLM" (zero-latency monitoring) unchecked in
Totalmix.
I agree, even a little bit of latency bugs the crap out of me if
I'm tracking... where exactly is your monitor feed coming from?
IMO, you shouldn't hear any latency whatsoever - unless I'm
completely misunderstanding your setup (which is, let's face it,
quite possible).
Neil
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>
>
>I'm just using a standard ATA 133 IDE drive. Plenty of mojo for moderate
=
>track counts.=20
>
>I've testing the *usability* of working at 32k buffers, 64k buffers and
=
>128k buffers here this morning. I don't have the horsepower to record =
>and play back tracks simultaneously at 32k buffers (0.7 ms). I did test
=
>recording a single track at 0.7 ms without any tracks playing back and
=
>I can do it, but it sounds a teeny bit phasey to me. Not a show stopper
=
>but definitely a difference when compared to using ASIO direct =
>monitoring. I can play back 12 tracks and record 20 tracks with up to =
>around 25% of the DSP usage of my UAD-1's on the recorded tracks without
=
>problems and the Cubase DSP meter is around 70% (this is sorta' nervous
=
>territory where you don't want to be mousing around too much). Disable =
>the UAD-1 and it drops down to between 50-60%. The audible phasing at =
>64k (1.5ms latency) is about as noticable as it is at 32k buffers (0.7ms
=
>latency). What is disturbing to me is that I'm hearing audible phasing =
>at all at 32k buffers. Even if I had a monster system that was able to =
>stand up on it's hind legs and bark at 0.7ms latency, I would be hearing
=
>audible phasing. I'm sure this is because I'm not just hearing the =
>latency that the buffer creates, I'm also hearing another 1.5 ms latency
=
>that is created by the AD/DA conversion. ASIO direct monitoring is much
=
>more equivalent to Paris latency (zero audible) because all you're =
>getting is the appx 1.5 ms of the AD/DA conversion. Once it exceeds =
>that, I can hear it.
>
>After all this crap I've gone through, I think may just get myself =
>another Furman HRM-16 mixer for my desktop so I can monitor the cue mix
=
>that is being sent to the rest of the studio via analog and see if I can
=
>create some kind of macro to switch all all track outputs to the main =
>monitor bus in the CR when everyone comes trooping in from the tracking
=
>area to listen in the CR.
>
>A bit more mousing around, but it's preferable to hearing latency in the
=
>cans. I won't be able to monitor with FX on pre recorded tracks, but =
>this is just a fact of life with native systems I guess and isn't a deal
=
>killer. Looks like even the most powerful DAWs will be subject to at =
>least 0.7 ms + 1.5 ms latency and I can clearly hear this.=20
>
>Maybe my ears are just too friggin' sensitive and this teeny bit of =
>latency wouldn't bother someone else. It sure bugs me though. I'll get =
>Amy on the mic later on today and give this a go at 64k buffers (1.5ms).
=
>Her hearing is twice as sensitive as mine. If it doesn't bother her, =
>then it likely won't bother anyone else....(but me)
>
>;o)
>
>
>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:462d1367@linux...
> so what are you using in place of the raptors?
> I am running 2 10k rpm sata drives...1 OS and 1 audio.
> I am running a 2.2gig AMD with 2gig ram. DDR400.
> I am recording at 192k buffer and get clicks and pops when using VST =
>realtime effects while tracking.
> Cubase SX3.
>
>
> --=20
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon=20
> "Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote in message =
>news:462d101f@linux...
> Deej,
> I've got that Silicon SATA on my Paris rig and it blows. Chris L. =
>suggested the same.
> I have had much better luck with standard ide.
>
> I'm glad you're not bailing so quickly!
> Tom
>
>
> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message =
>news:462d0cdc$1@linux...
> Well, from all of my previous posts, it's pretty obvious that I've
=
>been=20
> struggling with some issues with my system being able to track =
>lots of live=20
> inputs while monitoring previously recorded ones at low latency =
>with ASIO=20
> direct monitoring turned off.
>
> I've been doing some tweaking here this morning aand I just turned
=
>off that=20
> evil ****'in SIL SATA raid controller in the BIOS and pulled my =
>Raptors off=20
> the mobo.
>
> Something rather shocking has happened.
>
> I am currently playing back a 12 track project with Drumagog and =
>various=20
> UAD-1 plugins instantiated (not a huge load, but enough to =
>accomplish some=20
> ear candy which is all what I need here during dub sessions before
=
>the real=20
> mixing begins) while recording 20 live inputs at 64k buffers =
>(1.5ms),=20
> punching in and out at will. I can definitely live with 1.5ms =
>latency.
>
> The Cubase 4 CPU meter is bouncing along at approximately 50% =
>usage.
>
> I haven't configured the Control room mode for tracking just yet,
=
>but unless=20
> creating a few busses is a substantial CPU hit, I may be able to =
>accomplish=20
> what I need here with what I've got right now...............of =
>course, this=20
> will require me not to spend $2000.00 on a computer upgrade and =
>that's never=20
> good.
>
> ;o)=20
>
>
>
>
> I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
> http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16414" name=3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm just using a standard ATA 133 IDE =
>drive. Plenty=20
>of mojo for moderate track counts. </FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've testing the *usability* of working
=
>at 32k=20
>buffers, 64k buffers and 128k buffers here this morning. I don't have =
>the=20
>horsepower to record and play back tracks simultaneously at 32k buffers
=
>(0.7=20
>ms). I did test recording a single track at 0.7 ms without =
>any tracks=20
>playing back and I can do it, but it sounds a teeny bit phasey to me. =
>Not a show=20
>stopper but definitely a difference when compared to using ASIO direct=20
>monitoring. I can play back 12 tracks and record 20 tracks =
>with up to=20
>around 25% of the DSP usage of my UAD-1's on the recorded tracks without
=
>
>problems and the Cubase DSP meter is around 70% (this is sorta' nervous=20
>territory where you don't want to be mousing around too much). Disable =
>the UAD-1=20
>and it drops down to between 50-60%. The audible phasing at 64k (1.5ms =
>latency)=20
>is about as noticable as it is at 32k buffers (0.7ms latency). What is=20
>disturbing to me is that I'm hearing audible phasing at all at 32k =
>buffers. Even=20
>if I had a monster system that was able to stand up on it's hind legs =
>and bark=20
>at 0.7ms latency, I would be hearing audible phasing. I'm sure this is =
>because=20
>I'm not just hearing the latency that the buffer creates, I'm also =
>hearing=20
>another 1.5 ms latency that is created by the AD/DA conversion. =
></FONT><FONT=20
>face=3DArial size=3D2>ASIO direct monitoring is much more equivalent to
=
>Paris=20
>latency (zero audible) because all you're getting is the appx 1.5 ms of
=
>the=20
>AD/DA conversion. Once it exceeds that, I can hear it.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>After all this crap I've gone through,
=
>I think may=20
>just get myself another Furman HRM-16 mixer for my desktop so I can =
>monitor the=20
>cue mix that is being sent to the rest of the studio via analog and see
=
>if I can=20
>create some kind of macro to switch all all track outputs to the =
>main=20
>monitor bus in the CR when everyone comes trooping in from the tracking
=
>area to=20
>listen in the CR.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A bit more mousing around, but it's =
>preferable to=20
>hearing latency in the cans. I won't be able to monitor with FX on pre =
>recorded=20
>tracks, but this is just a fact of life with native systems I guess and
=
>isn't a=20
>deal killer. Looks like even the most powerful DAWs will be subject =
>to at=20
>least 0.7 ms + 1.5 ms latency and I can clearly hear this. </FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Maybe my ears are just too friggin' =
>sensitive and=20
>this teeny bit of latency wouldn't bother someone else. It sure bugs me
=
>though.=20
>I'll get Amy on the mic later on today and give this a go at 64k buffers
=
>
>(1.5ms). Her hearing is twice as sensitive as mine. If it doesn't bother
=
>her,=20
>then it likely won't bother anyone else....(but me)</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>;o)</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV> </DIV>
><DIV>"Brandon" <<A href=3D"mailto:a@a.com">a@a.com</A>> wrote in =
>message <A=20
>href=3D"news:462d1367@linux">news:462d1367@linux</A>...</DIV>
><BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
>style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>so what are you using in place of the=20
> raptors?</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am running 2 10k rpm sata drives...1 OS and
=
>1=20
> audio.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am running a 2.2gig AMD with 2gig ram.=20
> DDR400.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am recording at 192k buffer and get clicks =
>and pops=20
> when using VST realtime effects while tracking.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Cubase SX3.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><BR>-- <BR>Thanks,</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Brandon </DIV>
> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV>"Tom Bruhl" <<A=20
> href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>> =
>wrote in=20
> message <A =
>href=3D"news:462d101f@linux">news:462d101f@linux</A>...</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Deej,</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've got that Silicon SATA on my =
>Paris rig and=20
> it blows. Chris L. suggested the same.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have had much better luck with =
></FONT><FONT=20
> face=3DArial size=3D2>standard ide.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm glad you're not bailing so=20
> quickly!</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV>"DJ" <<A=20
> =
>href=3D"http://www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com">www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com</A>>=20
> wrote in message <A=20
> =
>href=3D"news:462d0cdc$1@linux">news:462d0cdc$1@linux</A>...</DIV>Well, =
>from=20
> all of my previous posts, it's pretty obvious that I've been=20
> <BR>struggling with some issues with my system being able to track
=
>lots of=20
> live <BR>inputs while monitoring previously recorded ones at low =
>latency=20
> with ASIO <BR>direct monitoring turned off.<BR><BR>I've been doing
=
>some=20
> tweaking here this morning aand I just turned off that <BR>evil =
>****'in=20
> SIL SATA raid controller in the BIOS and pulled my Raptors off =
><BR>the=20
> mobo.<BR><BR>Something rather shocking has happened.<BR><BR>I am =
>currently=20
> playing back a 12 track project with Drumagog and various =
><BR>UAD-1=20
> plugins instantiated (not a huge load, but enough to accomplish =
>some=20
> <BR>ear candy which is all what I need here during dub sessions =
>before the=20
> real <BR>mixing begins) while recording 20 live inputs at 64k =
>buffers=20
> (1.5ms), <BR>punching in and out at will. I can definitely live =
>with 1.5ms=20
> latency.<BR><BR>The Cubase 4 CPU meter is bouncing along at =
>approximately=20
> 50% usage.<BR><BR>I haven't configured the Control room mode for =
>tracking=20
> just yet, but unless <BR>creating a few busses is a substantial =
>CPU hit, I=20
> may be able to accomplish <BR>what I need here with what I've got
=
>right=20
> now...............of course, this <BR>will require me not to spend
=
>
> $2000.00 on a computer upgrade and that's never =
><BR>good.<BR><BR>;o)=20
> <BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight =
>spam, and=20
> you?<BR><A=20
> =
>href=3D"http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/refer=
>.html</A> </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY >=
></HTML>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: HOLY *****!!!!!!-what a difference!!! [message #83595 is a reply to message #83592] |
Mon, 23 April 2007 14:29 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Deej, I just don't get how you're hearing ANY latency at all,
unless you have "ZLM" (zero-latency monitoring) unchecked in
Totalmix.
I agree, even a little bit of latency bugs the crap out of me if
I'm tracking... where exactly is your monitor feed coming from?
IMO, you shouldn't hear any latency whatsoever - unless I'm
completely misunderstanding your setup (which is, let's face it,
quite possible).
Neil
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>
>
>I'm just using a standard ATA 133 IDE drive. Plenty of mojo for moderate
=
>track counts.=20
>
>I've testing the *usability* of working at 32k buffers, 64k buffers and
=
>128k buffers here this morning. I don't have the horsepower to record =
>and play back tracks simultaneously at 32k buffers (0.7 ms). I did test
=
>recording a single track at 0.7 ms without any tracks playing back and
=
>I can do it, but it sounds a teeny bit phasey to me. Not a show stopper
=
>but definitely a difference when compared to using ASIO direct =
>monitoring. I can play back 12 tracks and record 20 tracks with up to =
>around 25% of the DSP usage of my UAD-1's on the recorded tracks without
=
>problems and the Cubase DSP meter is around 70% (this is sorta' nervous
=
>territory where you don't want to be mousing around too much). Disable =
>the UAD-1 and it drops down to between 50-60%. The audible phasing at =
>64k (1.5ms latency) is about as noticable as it is at 32k buffers (0.7ms
=
>latency). What is disturbing to me is that I'm hearing audible phasing =
>at all at 32k buffers. Even if I had a monster system that was able to =
>stand up on it's hind legs and bark at 0.7ms latency, I would be hearing
=
>audible phasing. I'm sure this is because I'm not just hearing the =
>latency that the buffer creates, I'm also hearing another 1.5 ms latency
=
>that is created by the AD/DA conversion. ASIO direct monitoring is much
=
>more equivalent to Paris latency (zero audible) because all you're =
>getting is the appx 1.5 ms of the AD/DA conversion. Once it exceeds =
>that, I can hear it.
>
>After all this crap I've gone through, I think may just get myself =
>another Furman HRM-16 mixer for my desktop so I can monitor the cue mix
=
>that is being sent to the rest of the studio via analog and see if I can
=
>create some kind of macro to switch all all track outputs to the main =
>monitor bus in the CR when everyone comes trooping in from the tracking
=
>area to listen in the CR.
>
>A bit more mousing around, but it's preferable to hearing latency in the
=
>cans. I won't be able to monitor with FX on pre recorded tracks, but =
>this is just a fact of life with native systems I guess and isn't a deal
=
>killer. Looks like even the most powerful DAWs will be subject to at =
>least 0.7 ms + 1.5 ms latency and I can clearly hear this.=20
>
>Maybe my ears are just too friggin' sensitive and this teeny bit of =
>latency wouldn't bother someone else. It sure bugs me though. I'll get =
>Amy on the mic later on today and give this a go at 64k buffers (1.5ms).
=
>Her hearing is twice as sensitive as mine. If it doesn't bother her, =
>then it likely won't bother anyone else....(but me)
>
>;o)
>
>
>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:462d1367@linux...
> so what are you using in place of the raptors?
> I am running 2 10k rpm sata drives...1 OS and 1 audio.
> I am running a 2.2gig AMD with 2gig ram. DDR400.
> I am recording at 192k buffer and get clicks and pops when using VST =
>realtime effects while tracking.
> Cubase SX3.
>
>
> --=20
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon=20
> "Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote in message =
>news:462d101f@linux...
> Deej,
> I've got that Silicon SATA on my Paris rig and it blows. Chris L. =
>suggested the same.
> I have had much better luck with standard ide.
>
> I'm glad you're not bailing so quickly!
> Tom
>
>
> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message =
>news:462d0cdc$1@linux...
> Well, from all of my previous posts, it's pretty obvious that I've
=
>been=20
> struggling with some issues with my system being able to track =
>lots of live=20
> inputs while monitoring previously recorded ones at low latency =
>with ASIO=20
> direct monitoring turned off.
>
> I've been doing some tweaking here this morning aand I just turned
=
>off that=20
> evil ****'in SIL SATA raid controller in the BIOS and pulled my =
>Raptors off=20
> the mobo.
>
> Something rather shocking has happened.
>
> I am currently playing back a 12 track project with Drumagog and =
>various=20
> UAD-1 plugins instantiated (not a huge load, but enough to =
>accomplish some=20
> ear candy which is all what I need here during dub sessions before
=
>the real=20
> mixing begins) while recording 20 live inputs at 64k buffers =
>(1.5ms),=20
> punching in and out at will. I can definitely live with 1.5ms =
>latency.
>
> The Cubase 4 CPU meter is bouncing along at approximately 50% =
>usage.
>
> I haven't configured the Control room mode for tracking just yet,
=
>but unless=20
> creating a few busses is a substantial CPU hit, I may be able to =
>accomplish=20
> what I need here with what I've got right now...............of =
>course, this=20
> will require me not to spend $2000.00 on a computer upgrade and =
>that's never=20
> good.
>
> ;o)=20
>
>
>
>
> I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
> http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16414" name=3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm just using a standard ATA 133 IDE =
>drive. Plenty=20
>of mojo for moderate track counts. </FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've testing the *usability* of working
=
>at 32k=20
>buffers, 64k buffers and 128k buffers here this morning. I don't have =
>the=20
>horsepower to record and play back tracks simultaneously at 32k buffers
=
>(0.7=20
>ms). I did test recording a single track at 0.7 ms without =
>any tracks=20
>playing back and I can do it, but it sounds a teeny bit phasey to me. =
>Not a show=20
>stopper but definitely a difference when compared to using ASIO direct=20
>monitoring. I can play back 12 tracks and record 20 tracks =
>with up to=20
>around 25% of the DSP usage of my UAD-1's on the recorded tracks without
=
>
>problems and the Cubase DSP meter is around 70% (this is sorta' nervous=20
>territory where you don't want to be mousing around too much). Disable =
>the UAD-1=20
>and it drops down to between 50-60%. The audible phasing at 64k (1.5ms =
>latency)=20
>is about as noticable as it is at 32k buffers (0.7ms latency). What is=20
>disturbing to me is that I'm hearing audible phasing at all at 32k =
>buffers. Even=20
>if I had a monster system that was able to stand up on it's hind legs =
>and bark=20
>at 0.7ms latency, I would be hearing audible phasing. I'm sure this is =
>because=20
>I'm not just hearing the latency that the buffer creates, I'm also =
>hearing=20
>another 1.5 ms latency that is created by the AD/DA conversion. =
></FONT><FONT=20
>face=3DArial size=3D2>ASIO direct monitoring is much more equivalent to
=
>Paris=20
>latency (zero audible) because all you're getting is the appx 1.5 ms of
=
>the=20
>AD/DA conversion. Once it exceeds that, I can hear it.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>After all this crap I've gone through,
=
>I think may=20
>just get myself another Furman HRM-16 mixer for my desktop so I can =
>monitor the=20
>cue mix that is being sent to the rest of the studio via analog and see
=
>if I can=20
>create some kind of macro to switch all all track outputs to the =
>main=20
>monitor bus in the CR when everyone comes trooping in from the tracking
=
>area to=20
>listen in the CR.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A bit more mousing around, but it's =
>preferable to=20
>hearing latency in the cans. I won't be able to monitor with FX on pre =
>recorded=20
>tracks, but this is just a fact of life with native systems I guess and
=
>isn't a=20
>deal killer. Looks like even the most powerful DAWs will be subject =
>to at=20
>least 0.7 ms + 1.5 ms latency and I can clearly hear this. </FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Maybe my ears are just too friggin' =
>sensitive and=20
>this teeny bit of latency wouldn't bother someone else. It sure bugs me
=
>though.=20
>I'll get Amy on the mic later on today and give this a go at 64k buffers
=
>
>(1.5ms). Her hearing is twice as sensitive as mine. If it doesn't bother
=
>her,=20
>then it likely won't bother anyone else....(but me)</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>;o)</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV> </DIV>
><DIV>"Brandon" <<A href=3D"mailto:a@a.com">a@a.com</A>> wrote in =
>message <A=20
>href=3D"news:462d1367@linux">news:462d1367@linux</A>...</DIV>
><BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
>style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>so what are you using in place of the=20
> raptors?</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am running 2 10k rpm sata drives...1 OS and
=
>1=20
> audio.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am running a 2.2gig AMD with 2gig ram.=20
> DDR400.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am recording at 192k buffer and get clicks =
>and pops=20
> when using VST realtime effects while tracking.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Cubase SX3.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><BR>-- <BR>Thanks,</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Brandon </DIV>
> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV>"Tom Bruhl" <<A=20
> href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>> =
>wrote in=20
> message <A =
>href=3D"news:462d101f@linux">news:462d101f@linux</A>...</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Deej,</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've got that Silicon SATA on my =
>Paris rig and=20
> it blows. Chris L. suggested the same.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have had much better luck with =
></FONT><FONT=20
> face=3DArial size=3D2>standard ide.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm glad you're not bailing so=20
> quickly!</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV>"DJ" <<A=20
> =
>href=3D"http://www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com">www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com</A>>=20
> wrote in message <A=20
> =
>href=3D"news:462d0cdc$1@linux">news:462d0cdc$1@linux</A>...</DIV>Well, =
>from=20
> all of my previous posts, it's pretty obvious that I've been=20
> <BR>struggling with some issues with my system being able to track
=
>lots of=20
> live <BR>inputs while monitoring previously recorded ones at low =
>latency=20
> with ASIO <BR>direct monitoring turned off.<BR><BR>I've been doing
=
>some=20
> tweaking here this morning aand I just turned off that <BR>evil =
>****'in=20
> SIL SATA raid controller in the BIOS and pulled my Raptors off =
><BR>the=20
> mobo.<BR><BR>Something rather shocking has happened.<BR><BR>I am =
>currently=20
> playing back a 12 track project with Drumagog and various =
><BR>UAD-1=20
> plugins instantiated (not a huge load, but enough to accomplish =
>some=20
> <BR>ear candy which is all what I need here during dub sessions =
>before the=20
> real <BR>mixing begins) while recording 20 live inputs at 64k =
>buffers=20
> (1.5ms), <BR>punching in and out at will. I can definitely live =
>with 1.5ms=20
> latency.<BR><BR>The Cubase 4 CPU meter is bouncing along at =
>approximately=20
> 50% usage.<BR><BR>I haven't configured the Control room mode for =
>tracking=20
> just yet, but unless <BR>creating a few busses is a substantial =
>CPU hit, I=20
> may be able to accomplish <BR>what I need here with what I've got
=
>right=20
> now...............of course, this <BR>will require me not to spend
=
>
> $2000.00 on a computer upgrade and that's never =
><BR>good.<BR><BR>;o)=20
> <BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight =
>spam, and=20
> you?<BR><A=20
> =
>href=3D"http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/refer=
>.html</A> </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY >=
></HTML>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: HOLY *****!!!!!!-what a difference!!! [message #83596 is a reply to message #83592] |
Mon, 23 April 2007 14:43 |
EK Sound
Messages: 939
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Keep in mind, your .7mSec is the delay for *each* direction.... .7 in
and .7 out = 1.4mSec total. That is well within the delay time
settings for flanging and phasing.
David.
DJ wrote:
> I'm just using a standard ATA 133 IDE drive. Plenty of mojo for moderate
> track counts.
>
> I've testing the *usability* of working at 32k buffers, 64k buffers and
> 128k buffers here this morning. I don't have the horsepower to record
> and play back tracks simultaneously at 32k buffers (0.7 ms). I did test
> recording a single track at 0.7 ms without any tracks playing back and
> I can do it, but it sounds a teeny bit phasey to me. Not a show stopper
> but definitely a difference when compared to using ASIO direct
> monitoring. I can play back 12 tracks and record 20 tracks with up to
> around 25% of the DSP usage of my UAD-1's on the recorded tracks without
> problems and the Cubase DSP meter is around 70% (this is sorta' nervous
> territory where you don't want to be mousing around too much). Disable
> the UAD-1 and it drops down to between 50-60%. The audible phasing at
> 64k (1.5ms latency) is about as noticable as it is at 32k buffers (0.7ms
> latency). What is disturbing to me is that I'm hearing audible phasing
> at all at 32k buffers. Even if I had a monster system that was able to
> stand up on it's hind legs and bark at 0.7ms latency, I would be hearing
> audible phasing. I'm sure this is because I'm not just hearing the
> latency that the buffer creates, I'm also hearing another 1.5 ms latency
> that is created by the AD/DA conversion. ASIO direct monitoring is much
> more equivalent to Paris latency (zero audible) because all you're
> getting is the appx 1.5 ms of the AD/DA conversion. Once it exceeds
> that, I can hear it.
>
> After all this crap I've gone through, I think may just get myself
> another Furman HRM-16 mixer for my desktop so I can monitor the cue mix
> that is being sent to the rest of the studio via analog and see if I can
> create some kind of macro to switch all all track outputs to the main
> monitor bus in the CR when everyone comes trooping in from the tracking
> area to listen in the CR.
>
> A bit more mousing around, but it's preferable to hearing latency in the
> cans. I won't be able to monitor with FX on pre recorded tracks, but
> this is just a fact of life with native systems I guess and isn't a deal
> killer. Looks like even the most powerful DAWs will be subject to at
> least 0.7 ms + 1.5 ms latency and I can clearly hear this.
>
> Maybe my ears are just too friggin' sensitive and this teeny bit of
> latency wouldn't bother someone else. It sure bugs me though. I'll get
> Amy on the mic later on today and give this a go at 64k buffers (1.5ms).
> Her hearing is twice as sensitive as mine. If it doesn't bother her,
> then it likely won't bother anyone else....(but me)
>
> ;o)
>
>
> "Brandon" <a@a.com <mailto:a@a.com>> wrote in message news:462d1367@linux...
>
> so what are you using in place of the raptors?
> I am running 2 10k rpm sata drives...1 OS and 1 audio.
> I am running a 2.2gig AMD with 2gig ram. DDR400.
> I am recording at 192k buffer and get clicks and pops when using VST
> realtime effects while tracking.
> Cubase SX3.
>
>
> --
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon
>
> "Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net <mailto:arpegio@comcast.net>>
> wrote in message news:462d101f@linux...
> Deej,
> I've got that Silicon SATA on my Paris rig and it blows. Chris
> L. suggested the same.
> I have had much better luck with standard ide.
>
> I'm glad you're not bailing so quickly!
> Tom
>
>
>
> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com
> <http://www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com>> wrote in message
> news:462d0cdc$1@linux...
> Well, from all of my previous posts, it's pretty obvious
> that I've been
> struggling with some issues with my system being able to
> track lots of live
> inputs while monitoring previously recorded ones at low
> latency with ASIO
> direct monitoring turned off.
>
> I've been doing some tweaking here this morning aand I just
> turned off that
> evil ****'in SIL SATA raid controller in the BIOS and pulled
> my Raptors off
> the mobo.
>
> Something rather shocking has happened.
>
> I am currently playing back a 12 track project with Drumagog
> and various
> UAD-1 plugins instantiated (not a huge load, but enough to
> accomplish some
> ear candy which is all what I need here during dub sessions
> before the real
> mixing begins) while recording 20 live inputs at 64k buffers
> (1.5ms),
> punching in and out at will. I can definitely live with
> 1.5ms latency.
>
> The Cubase 4 CPU meter is bouncing along at approximately
> 50% usage.
>
> I haven't configured the Control room mode for tracking just
> yet, but unless
> creating a few busses is a substantial CPU hit, I may be
> able to accomplish
> what I need here with what I've got right
> now...............of course, this
> will require me not to spend $2000.00 on a computer upgrade
> and that's never
> good.
>
> ;o)
>
>
>
> I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
> http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
|
|
|
|
| Re: HOLY *****!!!!!!-what a difference!!! [message #83597 is a reply to message #83594] |
Mon, 23 April 2007 14:48 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Neil,
I have apparently been going at this native thing with some preconceptions
about ASIO direct monitoring that aren't at all accurate. I haven't been
doing much in the way of tracking (lots of mixing) so I guess that's
understandable. I was under the impression that I would not be able to
monitor previously recorded tracks with plugins inserted on the channels or
sends while tracking unless I disabled ASIO direct monitoring. Obviously
this is not the case. I just set my project to 512k buffers. It has 12
tracks already recorded. I enabled ASIO direct monitoring and inserted 9
UAD-1 plugins on various of the pre recorded tracks. I also installed one of
my outboard reverbs as a send on a few of them. I have them all (including
the outboard reverb) outputing to an analog pair that I'm sending to my
Furman HDS-16 system. At the same time, I've got 20 more audio tracks
recording. Since I have ADM there is no audible latency but the astounding
thing about it is that I'm also hearing all of the prerecorded tracks that
are being processed by the UAD-1 plugins during playback. The processing is
working and it is very obvious, and there is no latency. I didn't think this
was possible to do. My Cubase DSP meter is at about 10%. Hell, man, I could
record 20 tracks and play back 50 or 60 with no problem. Is this normal or
some kind of happy accident/bug? I shouldn't be able to hear plugins on
prerecorded tracks with ADM enabled, should I?
At this point, the only inconvenience with a tracking session is having to
mouse all of the tracks to the main monitor bus if I want to hear them
through my DAC-1. Well, during tracking, I don't necessarily need to use my
DAC-1 so I have an easy workaround bypass this to a pair of the RME outs and
split them off to the HDS-16 and my NHT PVC simultaneously.
Hell man.........this is great!
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:462d2549$1@linux...
>
> Deej, I just don't get how you're hearing ANY latency at all,
> unless you have "ZLM" (zero-latency monitoring) unchecked in
> Totalmix.
>
> I agree, even a little bit of latency bugs the crap out of me if
> I'm tracking... where exactly is your monitor feed coming from?
> IMO, you shouldn't hear any latency whatsoever - unless I'm
> completely misunderstanding your setup (which is, let's face it,
> quite possible).
>
> Neil
>
> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>I'm just using a standard ATA 133 IDE drive. Plenty of mojo for moderate
> =
>>track counts.=20
>>
>>I've testing the *usability* of working at 32k buffers, 64k buffers and
> =
>>128k buffers here this morning. I don't have the horsepower to record =
>>and play back tracks simultaneously at 32k buffers (0.7 ms). I did test
> =
>>recording a single track at 0.7 ms without any tracks playing back and
> =
>>I can do it, but it sounds a teeny bit phasey to me. Not a show stopper
> =
>>but definitely a difference when compared to using ASIO direct =
>>monitoring. I can play back 12 tracks and record 20 tracks with up to =
>>around 25% of the DSP usage of my UAD-1's on the recorded tracks without
> =
>>problems and the Cubase DSP meter is around 70% (this is sorta' nervous
> =
>>territory where you don't want to be mousing around too much). Disable =
>>the UAD-1 and it drops down to between 50-60%. The audible phasing at =
>>64k (1.5ms latency) is about as noticable as it is at 32k buffers (0.7ms
> =
>>latency). What is disturbing to me is that I'm hearing audible phasing =
>>at all at 32k buffers. Even if I had a monster system that was able to =
>>stand up on it's hind legs and bark at 0.7ms latency, I would be hearing
> =
>>audible phasing. I'm sure this is because I'm not just hearing the =
>>latency that the buffer creates, I'm also hearing another 1.5 ms latency
> =
>>that is created by the AD/DA conversion. ASIO direct monitoring is much
> =
>>more equivalent to Paris latency (zero audible) because all you're =
>>getting is the appx 1.5 ms of the AD/DA conversion. Once it exceeds =
>>that, I can hear it.
>>
>>After all this crap I've gone through, I think may just get myself =
>>another Furman HRM-16 mixer for my desktop so I can monitor the cue mix
> =
>>that is being sent to the rest of the studio via analog and see if I can
> =
>>create some kind of macro to switch all all track outputs to the main =
>>monitor bus in the CR when everyone comes trooping in from the tracking
> =
>>area to listen in the CR.
>>
>>A bit more mousing around, but it's preferable to hearing latency in the
> =
>>cans. I won't be able to monitor with FX on pre recorded tracks, but =
>>this is just a fact of life with native systems I guess and isn't a deal
> =
>>killer. Looks like even the most powerful DAWs will be subject to at =
>>least 0.7 ms + 1.5 ms latency and I can clearly hear this.=20
>>
>>Maybe my ears are just too friggin' sensitive and this teeny bit of =
>>latency wouldn't bother someone else. It sure bugs me though. I'll get =
>>Amy on the mic later on today and give this a go at 64k buffers (1.5ms).
> =
>>Her hearing is twice as sensitive as mine. If it doesn't bother her, =
>>then it likely won't bother anyone else....(but me)
>>
>>;o)
>>
>>
>>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:462d1367@linux...
>> so what are you using in place of the raptors?
>> I am running 2 10k rpm sata drives...1 OS and 1 audio.
>> I am running a 2.2gig AMD with 2gig ram. DDR400.
>> I am recording at 192k buffer and get clicks and pops when using VST =
>>realtime effects while tracking.
>> Cubase SX3.
>>
>>
>> --=20
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon=20
>> "Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote in message =
>>news:462d101f@linux...
>> Deej,
>> I've got that Silicon SATA on my Paris rig and it blows. Chris L. =
>>suggested the same.
>> I have had much better luck with standard ide.
>>
>> I'm glad you're not bailing so quickly!
>> Tom
>>
>>
>> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message =
>>news:462d0cdc$1@linux...
>> Well, from all of my previous posts, it's pretty obvious that I've
> =
>>been=20
>> struggling with some issues with my system being able to track =
>>lots of live=20
>> inputs while monitoring previously recorded ones at low latency =
>>with ASIO=20
>> direct monitoring turned off.
>>
>> I've been doing some tweaking here this morning aand I just turned
> =
>>off that=20
>> evil ****'in SIL SATA raid controller in the BIOS and pulled my =
>>Raptors off=20
>> the mobo.
>>
>> Something rather shocking has happened.
>>
>> I am currently playing back a 12 track project with Drumagog and =
>>various=20
>> UAD-1 plugins instantiated (not a huge load, but enough to =
>>accomplish some=20
>> ear candy which is all what I need here during dub sessions before
> =
>>the real=20
>> mixing begins) while recording 20 live inputs at 64k buffers =
>>(1.5ms),=20
>> punching in and out at will. I can definitely live with 1.5ms =
>>latency.
>>
>> The Cubase 4 CPU meter is bouncing along at approximately 50% =
>>usage.
>>
>> I haven't configured the Control room mode for tracking just yet,
> =
>>but unless=20
>> creating a few busses is a substantial CPU hit, I may be able to =
>>accomplish=20
>> what I need here with what I've got right now...............of =
>>course, this=20
>> will require me not to spend $2000.00 on a computer upgrade and =
>>that's never=20
>> good.
>>
>> ;o)=20
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
>> http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
>>
>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>><HTML><HEAD>
>><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16414" name=3DGENERATOR>
>><STYLE></STYLE>
>></HEAD>
>><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm just using a standard ATA 133 IDE =
>>drive. Plenty=20
>>of mojo for moderate track counts. </FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've testing the *usability* of working
> =
>>at 32k=20
>>buffers, 64k buffers and 128k buffers here this morning. I don't have =
>>the=20
>>horsepower to record and play back tracks simultaneously at 32k buffers
> =
>>(0.7=20
>>ms). I did test recording a single track at 0.7 ms without =
>>any tracks=20
>>playing back and I can do it, but it sounds a teeny bit phasey to me. =
>>Not a show=20
>>stopper but definitely a difference when compared to using ASIO direct=20
>>monitoring. I can play back 12 tracks and record 20 tracks =
>>with up to=20
>>around 25% of the DSP usage of my UAD-1's on the recorded tracks without
> =
>>
>>problems and the Cubase DSP meter is around 70% (this is sorta' nervous=20
>>territory where you don't want to be mousing around too much). Disable =
>>the UAD-1=20
>>and it drops down to between 50-60%. The audible phasing at 64k (1.5ms =
>>latency)=20
>>is about as noticable as it is at 32k buffers (0.7ms latency). What is=20
>>disturbing to me is that I'm hearing audible phasing at all at 32k =
>>buffers. Even=20
>>if I had a monster system that was able to stand up on it's hind legs =
>>and bark=20
>>at 0.7ms latency, I would be hearing audible phasing. I'm sure this is =
>>because=20
>>I'm not just hearing the latency that the buffer creates, I'm also =
>>hearing=20
>>another 1.5 ms latency that is created by the AD/DA conversion. =
>></FONT><FONT=20
>>face=3DArial size=3D2>ASIO direct monitoring is much more equivalent to
> =
>>Paris=20
>>latency (zero audible) because all you're getting is the appx 1.5 ms of
> =
>>the=20
>>AD/DA conversion. Once it exceeds that, I can hear it.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>After all this crap I've gone through,
> =
>>I think may=20
>>just get myself another Furman HRM-16 mixer for my desktop so I can =
>>monitor the=20
>>cue mix that is being sent to the rest of the studio via analog and see
> =
>>if I can=20
>>create some kind of macro to switch all all track outputs to the =
>>main=20
>>monitor bus in the CR when everyone comes trooping in from the tracking
> =
>>area to=20
>>listen in the CR.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A bit more mousing around, but it's =
>>preferable to=20
>>hearing latency in the cans. I won't be able to monitor with FX on pre =
>>recorded=20
>>tracks, but this is just a fact of life with native systems I guess and
> =
>>isn't a=20
>>deal killer. Looks like even the most powerful DAWs will be subject =
>>to at=20
>>least 0.7 ms + 1.5 ms latency and I can clearly hear this. </FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Maybe my ears are just too friggin' =
>>sensitive and=20
>>this teeny bit of latency wouldn't bother someone else. It sure bugs me
> =
>>though.=20
>>I'll get Amy on the mic later on today and give this a go at 64k buffers
> =
>>
>>(1.5ms). Her hearing is twice as sensitive as mine. If it doesn't bother
> =
>>her,=20
>>then it likely won't bother anyone else....(but me)</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>;o)</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV> </DIV>
>><DIV>"Brandon" <<A href=3D"mailto:a@a.com">a@a.com</A>> wrote in =
>>message <A=20
>>href=3D"news:462d1367@linux">news:462d1367@linux</A>...</DIV>
>><BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
>>style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>so what are you using in place of the=20
>> raptors?</FONT></DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am running 2 10k rpm sata drives...1 OS and
> =
>>1=20
>> audio.</FONT></DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am running a 2.2gig AMD with 2gig ram.=20
>> DDR400.</FONT></DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am recording at 192k buffer and get clicks =
>>and pops=20
>> when using VST realtime effects while tracking.</FONT></DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Cubase SX3.</FONT></DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
>> <DIV><BR>-- <BR>Thanks,</DIV>
>> <DIV> </DIV>
>> <DIV>Brandon </DIV>
>> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
>> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>> <DIV>"Tom Bruhl" <<A=20
>> href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>> =
>>wrote in=20
>> message <A =
>>href=3D"news:462d101f@linux">news:462d101f@linux</A>...</DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Deej,</FONT></DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've got that Silicon SATA on my =
>>Paris rig and=20
>> it blows. Chris L. suggested the same.</FONT></DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have had much better luck with =
>></FONT><FONT=20
>> face=3DArial size=3D2>standard ide.</FONT></DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm glad you're not bailing so=20
>> quickly!</FONT></DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
>> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>> <DIV>"DJ" <<A=20
>> =
>>href=3D"http://www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com">www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com</A>>=20
>> wrote in message <A=20
>> =
>>href=3D"news:462d0cdc$1@linux">news:462d0cdc$1@linux</A>...</DIV>Well, =
>>from=20
>> all of my previous posts, it's pretty obvious that I've been=20
>> <BR>struggling with some issues with my system being able to track
> =
>>lots of=20
>> live <BR>inputs while monitoring previously recorded ones at low =
>>latency=20
>> with ASIO <BR>direct monitoring turned off.<BR><BR>I've been doing
> =
>>some=20
>> tweaking here this morning aand I just turned off that <BR>evil =
>>****'in=20
>> SIL SATA raid controller in the BIOS and pulled my Raptors off =
>><BR>the=20
>> mobo.<BR><BR>Something rather shocking has happened.<BR><BR>I am =
>>currently=20
>> playing back a 12 track project with Drumagog and various =
>><BR>UAD-1=20
>> plugins instantiated (not a huge load, but enough to accomplish =
>>some=20
>> <BR>ear candy which is all what I need here during dub sessions =
>>before the=20
>> real <BR>mixing begins) while recording 20 live inputs at 64k =
>>buffers=20
>> (1.5ms), <BR>punching in and out at will. I can definitely live =
>>with 1.5ms=20
>> latency.<BR><BR>The Cubase 4 CPU meter is bouncing along at =
>>approximately=20
>> 50% usage.<BR><BR>I haven't configured the Control room mode for =
>>tracking=20
>> just yet, but unless <BR>creating a few busses is a substantial =
>>CPU hit, I=20
>> may be able to accomplish <BR>what I need here with what I've got
> =
>>right=20
>> now...............of course, this <BR>will require me not to spend
> =
>>
>> $2000.00 on a computer upgrade and that's never =
>><BR>good.<BR><BR>;o)=20
>> <BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
>> <DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight =
>>spam, and=20
>> you?<BR><A=20
>> =
>>href=3D"http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/refer=
>>.html</A> </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY>=
>></HTML>
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: HOLY *****!!!!!!-what a difference!!! [message #83598 is a reply to message #83597] |
Mon, 23 April 2007 15:06 |
EK Sound
Messages: 939
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Stuff that is already recorded is no problem... you could set the
buffers to 1056 and everything would be cool. It's the "monitor what
you are currently recording" thing where latency is an issue. If you
have a way to monitor the recording signal using direct monitoring
(the input is usually routed to the same # output... 1 to 1, 2 to 2
etc.) then you are good to go. If you are trying to monitor input 1
to output 7 for instance, or a *mix* of several inputs to one output,
the delay will be noticeable. This is really noticable if you try to
monitor a stereo and mono track to one pair of outputs, as a stereo
signal has twice the latency of a mono one.
David.
DJ wrote:
> Neil,
>
> I have apparently been going at this native thing with some preconceptions
> about ASIO direct monitoring that aren't at all accurate. I haven't been
> doing much in the way of tracking (lots of mixing) so I guess that's
> understandable. I was under the impression that I would not be able to
> monitor previously recorded tracks with plugins inserted on the channels or
> sends while tracking unless I disabled ASIO direct monitoring. Obviously
> this is not the case. I just set my project to 512k buffers. It has 12
> tracks already recorded. I enabled ASIO direct monitoring and inserted 9
> UAD-1 plugins on various of the pre recorded tracks. I also installed one of
> my outboard reverbs as a send on a few of them. I have them all (including
> the outboard reverb) outputing to an analog pair that I'm sending to my
> Furman HDS-16 system. At the same time, I've got 20 more audio tracks
> recording. Since I have ADM there is no audible latency but the astounding
> thing about it is that I'm also hearing all of the prerecorded tracks that
> are being processed by the UAD-1 plugins during playback. The processing is
> working and it is very obvious, and there is no latency. I didn't think this
> was possible to do. My Cubase DSP meter is at about 10%. Hell, man, I could
> record 20 tracks and play back 50 or 60 with no problem. Is this normal or
> some kind of happy accident/bug? I shouldn't be able to hear plugins on
> prerecorded tracks with ADM enabled, should I?
>
> At this point, the only inconvenience with a tracking session is having to
> mouse all of the tracks to the main monitor bus if I want to hear them
> through my DAC-1. Well, during tracking, I don't necessarily need to use my
> DAC-1 so I have an easy workaround bypass this to a pair of the RME outs and
> split them off to the HDS-16 and my NHT PVC simultaneously.
>
> Hell man.........this is great!
>
>
>
>
> "Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:462d2549$1@linux...
>
>>Deej, I just don't get how you're hearing ANY latency at all,
>>unless you have "ZLM" (zero-latency monitoring) unchecked in
>>Totalmix.
>>
>>I agree, even a little bit of latency bugs the crap out of me if
>>I'm tracking... where exactly is your monitor feed coming from?
>>IMO, you shouldn't hear any latency whatsoever - unless I'm
>>completely misunderstanding your setup (which is, let's face it,
>>quite possible).
>>
>>Neil
>>
>>"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>I'm just using a standard ATA 133 IDE drive. Plenty of mojo for moderate
>>
>>=
>>
>>>track counts.=20
>>>
>>>I've testing the *usability* of working at 32k buffers, 64k buffers and
>>
>>=
>>
>>>128k buffers here this morning. I don't have the horsepower to record =
>>>and play back tracks simultaneously at 32k buffers (0.7 ms). I did test
>>
>>=
>>
>>>recording a single track at 0.7 ms without any tracks playing back and
>>
>>=
>>
>>>I can do it, but it sounds a teeny bit phasey to me. Not a show stopper
>>
>>=
>>
>>>but definitely a difference when compared to using ASIO direct =
>>>monitoring. I can play back 12 tracks and record 20 tracks with up to =
>>>around 25% of the DSP usage of my UAD-1's on the recorded tracks without
>>
>>=
>>
>>>problems and the Cubase DSP meter is around 70% (this is sorta' nervous
>>
>>=
>>
>>>territory where you don't want to be mousing around too much). Disable =
>>>the UAD-1 and it drops down to between 50-60%. The audible phasing at =
>>>64k (1.5ms latency) is about as noticable as it is at 32k buffers (0.7ms
>>
>>=
>>
>>>latency). What is disturbing to me is that I'm hearing audible phasing =
>>>at all at 32k buffers. Even if I had a monster system that was able to =
>>>stand up on it's hind legs and bark at 0.7ms latency, I would be hearing
>>
>>=
>>
>>>audible phasing. I'm sure this is because I'm not just hearing the =
>>>latency that the buffer creates, I'm also hearing another 1.5 ms latency
>>
>>=
>>
>>>that is created by the AD/DA conversion. ASIO direct monitoring is much
>>
>>=
>>
>>>more equivalent to Paris latency (zero audible) because all you're =
>>>getting is the appx 1.5 ms of the AD/DA conversion. Once it exceeds =
>>>that, I can hear it.
>>>
>>>After all this crap I've gone through, I think may just get myself =
>>>another Furman HRM-16 mixer for my desktop so I can monitor the cue mix
>>
>>=
>>
>>>that is being sent to the rest of the studio via analog and see if I can
>>
>>=
>>
>>>create some kind of macro to switch all all track outputs to the main =
>>>monitor bus in the CR when everyone comes trooping in from the tracking
>>
>>=
>>
>>>area to listen in the CR.
>>>
>>>A bit more mousing around, but it's preferable to hearing latency in the
>>
>>=
>>
>>>cans. I won't be able to monitor with FX on pre recorded tracks, but =
>>>this is just a fact of life with native systems I guess and isn't a deal
>>
>>=
>>
>>>killer. Looks like even the most powerful DAWs will be subject to at =
>>>least 0.7 ms + 1.5 ms latency and I can clearly hear this.=20
>>>
>>>Maybe my ears are just too friggin' sensitive and this teeny bit of =
>>>latency wouldn't bother someone else. It sure bugs me though. I'll get =
>>>Amy on the mic later on today and give this a go at 64k buffers (1.5ms).
>>
>>=
>>
>>>Her hearing is twice as sensitive as mine. If it doesn't bother her, =
>>>then it likely won't bother anyone else....(but me)
>>>
>>>;o)
>>>
>>>
>>>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:462d1367@linux...
>>> so what are you using in place of the raptors?
>>> I am running 2 10k rpm sata drives...1 OS and 1 audio.
>>> I am running a 2.2gig AMD with 2gig ram. DDR400.
>>> I am recording at 192k buffer and get clicks and pops when using VST =
>>>realtime effects while tracking.
>>> Cubase SX3.
>>>
>>>
>>> --=20
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon=20
>>> "Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote in message =
>>>news:462d101f@linux...
>>> Deej,
>>> I've got that Silicon SATA on my Paris rig and it blows. Chris L. =
>>>suggested the same.
>>> I have had much better luck with standard ide.
>>>
>>> I'm glad you're not bailing so quickly!
>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message =
>>>news:462d0cdc$1@linux...
>>> Well, from all of my previous posts, it's pretty obvious that I've
>>
>>=
>>
>>>been=20
>>> struggling with some issues with my system being able to track =
>>>lots of live=20
>>> inputs while monitoring previously recorded ones at low latency =
>>>with ASIO=20
>>> direct monitoring turned off.
>>>
>>> I've been doing some tweaking here this morning aand I just turned
>>
>>=
>>
>>>off that=20
>>> evil ****'in SIL SATA raid controller in the BIOS and pulled my =
>>>Raptors off=20
>>> the mobo.
>>>
>>> Something rather shocking has happened.
>>>
>>> I am currently playing back a 12 track project with Drumagog and =
>>>various=20
>>> UAD-1 plugins instantiated (not a huge load, but enough to =
>>>accomplish some=20
>>> ear candy which is all what I need here during dub sessions before
>>
>>=
>>
>>>the real=20
>>> mixing begins) while recording 20 live inputs at 64k buffers =
>>>(1.5ms),=20
>>> punching in and out at will. I can definitely live with 1.5ms =
>>>latency.
>>>
>>> The Cubase 4 CPU meter is bouncing along at approximately 50% =
>>>usage.
>>>
>>> I haven't configured the Control room mode for tracking just yet,
>>
>>=
>>
>>>but unless=20
>>> creating a few busses is a substantial CPU hit, I may be able to =
>>>accomplish=20
>>> what I need here with what I've got right now...............of =
>>>course, this=20
>>> will require me not to spend $2000.00 on a computer upgrade and =
>>>that's never=20
>>> good.
>>>
>>> ;o)=20
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
>>> http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
>>>
>>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>>><HTML><HEAD>
>>><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>>>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>>><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16414" name=3DGENERATOR>
>>><STYLE></STYLE>
>>></HEAD>
>>><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm just using a standard ATA 133 IDE =
>>>drive. Plenty=20
>>>of mojo for moderate track counts. </FONT></DIV>
>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've testing the *usability* of working
>>
>>=
>>
>>>at 32k=20
>>>buffers, 64k buffers and 128k buffers here this morning. I don't have =
>>>the=20
>>>horsepower to record and play back tracks simultaneously at 32k buffers
>>
>>=
>>
>>>(0.7=20
>>>ms). I did test recording a single track at 0.7 ms without =
>>>any tracks=20
>>>playing back and I can do it, but it sounds a teeny bit phasey to me. =
>>>Not a show=20
>>>stopper but definitely a difference when compared to using ASIO direct=20
>>>monitoring. I can play back 12 tracks and record 20 tracks =
>>>with up to=20
>>>around 25% of the DSP usage of my UAD-1's on the recorded tracks without
>>
>>=
>>
>>>problems and the Cubase DSP meter is around 70% (this is sorta' nervous=20
>>>territory where you don't want to be mousing around too much). Disable =
>>>the UAD-1=20
>>>and it drops down to between 50-60%. The audible phasing at 64k (1.5ms =
>>>latency)=20
>>>is about as noticable as it is at 32k buffers (0.7ms latency). What is=20
>>>disturbing to me is that I'm hearing audible phasing at all at 32k =
>>>buffers. Even=20
>>>if I had a monster system that was able to stand up on it's hind legs =
>>>and bark=20
>>>at 0.7ms latency, I would be hearing audible phasing. I'm sure this is =
>>>because=20
>>>I'm not just hearing the latency that the buffer creates, I'm also =
>>>hearing=20
>>>another 1.5 ms latency that is created by the AD/DA conversion. =
>>></FONT><FONT=20
>>>face=3DArial size=3D2>ASIO direct monitoring is much more equivalent to
>>
>>=
>>
>>>Paris=20
>>>latency (zero audible) because all you're getting is the appx 1.5 ms of
>>
>>=
>>
>>>the=20
>>>AD/DA conversion. Once it exceeds that, I can hear it.</FONT></DIV>
>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>After all this crap I've gone through,
>>
>>=
>>
>>>I think may=20
>>>just get myself another Furman HRM-16 mixer for my desktop so I can =
>>>monitor the=20
>>>cue mix that is being sent to the rest of the studio via analog and see
>>
>>=
>>
>>>if I can=20
>>>create some kind of macro to switch all all track outputs to the =
>>>main=20
>>>monitor bus in the CR when everyone comes trooping in from the tracking
>>
>>=
>>
>>>area to=20
>>>listen in the CR.</FONT></DIV>
>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A bit more mousing around, but it's =
>>>preferable to=20
>>>hearing latency in the cans. I won't be able to monitor with FX on pre =
>>>recorded=20
>>>tracks, but this is just a fact of life with native systems I guess and
>>
>>=
>>
>>>isn't a=20
>>>deal killer. Looks like even the most powerful DAWs will be subject =
>>>to at=20
>>>least 0.7 ms + 1.5 ms latency and I can clearly hear this. </FONT></DIV>
>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Maybe my ears are just too friggin' =
>>>sensitive and=20
>>>this teeny bit of latency wouldn't bother someone else. It sure bugs me
>>
>>=
>>
>>>though.=20
>>>I'll get Amy on the mic later on today and give this a go at 64k buffers
>>
>>=
>>
>>>(1.5ms). Her hearing is twice as sensitive as mine. If it doesn't bother
>>
>>=
>>
>>>her,=20
>>>then it likely won't bother anyone else....(but me)</FONT></DIV>
>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>;o)</FONT></DIV>
>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>><DIV> </DIV>
>>><DIV>"Brandon" <<A href=3D"mailto:a@a.com">a@a.com</A>> wrote in =
>>>message <A=20
>>>href=3D"news:462d1367@linux">news:462d1367@linux</A>...</DIV>
>>><BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
>>>style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>>>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>so what are you using in place of the=20
>>> raptors?</FONT></DIV>
>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am running 2 10k rpm sata drives...1 OS and
>>
>>=
>>
>>>1=20
>>> audio.</FONT></DIV>
>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am running a 2.2gig AMD with 2gig ram.=20
>>> DDR400.</FONT></DIV>
>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am recording at 192k buffer and get clicks =
>>>and pops=20
>>> when using VST realtime effects while tracking.</FONT></DIV>
>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Cubase SX3.</FONT></DIV>
>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
>>> <DIV><BR>-- <BR>Thanks,</DIV>
>>> <DIV> </DIV>
>>> <DIV>Brandon </DIV>
>>> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
>>> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>>>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>> <DIV>"Tom Bruhl" <<A=20
>>> href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>> =
>>>wrote in=20
>>> message <A =
>>>href=3D"news:462d101f@linux">news:462d101f@linux</A>...</DIV>
>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Deej,</FONT></DIV>
>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've got that Silicon SATA on my =
>>>Paris rig and=20
>>> it blows. Chris L. suggested the same.</FONT></DIV>
>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have had much better luck with =
>>></FONT><FONT=20
>>> face=3DArial size=3D2>standard ide.</FONT></DIV>
>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm glad you're not bailing so=20
>>> quickly!</FONT></DIV>
>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
>>> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>>>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>> <DIV>"DJ" <<A=20
>>> =
>>>href=3D"http://www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com">www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com</A>>=20
>>> wrote in message <A=20
>>> =
>>>href=3D"news:462d0cdc$1@linux">news:462d0cdc$1@linux</A>...</DIV>Well, =
>>>from=20
>>> all of my previous posts, it's pretty obvious that I've been=20
>>> <BR>struggling with some issues with my system being able to track
>>
>>=
>>
>>>lots of=20
>>> live <BR>inputs while monitoring previously recorded ones at low =
>>>latency=20
>>> with ASIO <BR>direct monitoring turned off.<BR><BR>I've been doing
>>
>>=
>>
>>>some=20
>>> tweaking here this morning aand I just turned off that <BR>evil =
>>>****'in=20
>>> SIL SATA raid controller in the BIOS and pulled my Raptors off =
>>><BR>the=20
>>> mobo.<BR><BR>Something rather shocking has happened.<BR><BR>I am =
>>>currently=20
>>> playing back a 12 track project with Drumagog and various =
>>><BR>UAD-1=20
>>> plugins instantiated (not a huge load, but enough to accomplish =
>>>some=20
>>> <BR>ear candy which is all what I need here during dub sessions =
>>>before the=20
>>> real <BR>mixing begins) while recording 20 live inputs at 64k =
>>>buffers=20
>>> (1.5ms), <BR>punching in and out at will. I can definitely live =
>>>with 1.5ms=20
>>> latency.<BR><BR>The Cubase 4 CPU meter is bouncing along at =
>>>approximately=20
>>> 50% usage.<BR><BR>I haven't configured the Control room mode for =
>>>tracking=20
>>> just yet, but unless <BR>creating a few busses is a substantial =
>>>CPU hit, I=20
>>> may be able to accomplish <BR>what I need here with what I've got
>>
>>=
>>
>>>right=20
>>> now...............of course, this <BR>will require me not to spend
>>
>>=
>>
>>> $2000.00 on a computer upgrade and that's never =
>>><BR>good.<BR><BR>;o)=20
>>> <BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
>>> <DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight =
>>>spam, and=20
>>> you?<BR><A=20
>>> =
>>>href=3D"http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/refer=
>>>.html</A> </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY>=
>>></HTML>
>>>
>>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: HOLY *****!!!!!!-what a difference!!! [message #83602 is a reply to message #83598] |
Mon, 23 April 2007 18:07 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
OK then.. I was wondering why I was not having any *issues* with this. I
have all mono inputs routed 1:1 to outs and the outs are feeding the mono or
stereo L/R inputs of the HDS-16 with the prerecorded tracks routed to an
analog pair of RME outs being sent to the main mix bus of the HDS-16. It
looks like the Furman HDS-16 is a great thing for this particular situation.
I was hoping to make it obsolete (and subsequently sell it off) by using the
Cubase 4 CR function, but the latency just isn't acceptable. For tracking
sessions I will use one of the HDS-16 mixers in the CR and route one of the
headphone outs to one of my PVC's which are outputting to a pair of studio
monitors. This will save much of the mousing around during tracking sessions
and when I get ready for critical listening during a mix, I can just bus the
recorded tracks as needed, monitoring off my mains which are digitally
routed to the DAC-1...........QED!!!..errrr.......sorta'.
Thanks,
;o)
"EK Sound" <askme@nospam.com> wrote in message news:462d2e60@linux...
> Stuff that is already recorded is no problem... you could set the buffers
> to 1056 and everything would be cool. It's the "monitor what you are
> currently recording" thing where latency is an issue. If you have a way
> to monitor the recording signal using direct monitoring (the input is
> usually routed to the same # output... 1 to 1, 2 to 2 etc.) then you are
> good to go. If you are trying to monitor input 1 to output 7 for
> instance, or a *mix* of several inputs to one output, the delay will be
> noticeable. This is really noticable if you try to monitor a stereo and
> mono track to one pair of outputs, as a stereo signal has twice the
> latency of a mono one.
>
> David.
>
> DJ wrote:
>> Neil,
>>
>> I have apparently been going at this native thing with some
>> preconceptions about ASIO direct monitoring that aren't at all accurate.
>> I haven't been doing much in the way of tracking (lots of mixing) so I
>> guess that's understandable. I was under the impression that I would not
>> be able to monitor previously recorded tracks with plugins inserted on
>> the channels or sends while tracking unless I disabled ASIO direct
>> monitoring. Obviously this is not the case. I just set my project to 512k
>> buffers. It has 12 tracks already recorded. I enabled ASIO direct
>> monitoring and inserted 9 UAD-1 plugins on various of the pre recorded
>> tracks. I also installed one of my outboard reverbs as a send on a few of
>> them. I have them all (including the outboard reverb) outputing to an
>> analog pair that I'm sending to my Furman HDS-16 system. At the same
>> time, I've got 20 more audio tracks recording. Since I have ADM there is
>> no audible latency but the astounding thing about it is that I'm also
>> hearing all of the prerecorded tracks that are being processed by the
>> UAD-1 plugins during playback. The processing is working and it is very
>> obvious, and there is no latency. I didn't think this was possible to do.
>> My Cubase DSP meter is at about 10%. Hell, man, I could record 20 tracks
>> and play back 50 or 60 with no problem. Is this normal or some kind of
>> happy accident/bug? I shouldn't be able to hear plugins on prerecorded
>> tracks with ADM enabled, should I?
>>
>> At this point, the only inconvenience with a tracking session is having
>> to mouse all of the tracks to the main monitor bus if I want to hear them
>> through my DAC-1. Well, during tracking, I don't necessarily need to use
>> my DAC-1 so I have an easy workaround bypass this to a pair of the RME
>> outs and split them off to the HDS-16 and my NHT PVC simultaneously.
>>
>> Hell man.........this is great!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:462d2549$1@linux...
>>
>>>Deej, I just don't get how you're hearing ANY latency at all,
>>>unless you have "ZLM" (zero-latency monitoring) unchecked in
>>>Totalmix.
>>>
>>>I agree, even a little bit of latency bugs the crap out of me if
>>>I'm tracking... where exactly is your monitor feed coming from?
>>>IMO, you shouldn't hear any latency whatsoever - unless I'm
>>>completely misunderstanding your setup (which is, let's face it,
>>>quite possible).
>>>
>>>Neil
>>>
>>>"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>I'm just using a standard ATA 133 IDE drive. Plenty of mojo for moderate
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>track counts.=20
>>>>
>>>>I've testing the *usability* of working at 32k buffers, 64k buffers and
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>128k buffers here this morning. I don't have the horsepower to record =
>>>>and play back tracks simultaneously at 32k buffers (0.7 ms). I did test
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>recording a single track at 0.7 ms without any tracks playing back and
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>I can do it, but it sounds a teeny bit phasey to me. Not a show stopper
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>but definitely a difference when compared to using ASIO direct =
>>>>monitoring. I can play back 12 tracks and record 20 tracks with up to =
>>>>around 25% of the DSP usage of my UAD-1's on the recorded tracks without
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>problems and the Cubase DSP meter is around 70% (this is sorta' nervous
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>territory where you don't want to be mousing around too much). Disable =
>>>>the UAD-1 and it drops down to between 50-60%. The audible phasing at =
>>>>64k (1.5ms latency) is about as noticable as it is at 32k buffers (0.7ms
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>latency). What is disturbing to me is that I'm hearing audible phasing =
>>>>at all at 32k buffers. Even if I had a monster system that was able to =
>>>>stand up on it's hind legs and bark at 0.7ms latency, I would be hearing
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>audible phasing. I'm sure this is because I'm not just hearing the =
>>>>latency that the buffer creates, I'm also hearing another 1.5 ms latency
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>that is created by the AD/DA conversion. ASIO direct monitoring is much
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>more equivalent to Paris latency (zero audible) because all you're =
>>>>getting is the appx 1.5 ms of the AD/DA conversion. Once it exceeds =
>>>>that, I can hear it.
>>>>
>>>>After all this crap I've gone through, I think may just get myself =
>>>>another Furman HRM-16 mixer for my desktop so I can monitor the cue mix
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>that is being sent to the rest of the studio via analog and see if I can
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>create some kind of macro to switch all all track outputs to the main =
>>>>monitor bus in the CR when everyone comes trooping in from the tracking
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>area to listen in the CR.
>>>>
>>>>A bit more mousing around, but it's preferable to hearing latency in the
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>cans. I won't be able to monitor with FX on pre recorded tracks, but =
>>>>this is just a fact of life with native systems I guess and isn't a deal
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>killer. Looks like even the most powerful DAWs will be subject to at =
>>>>least 0.7 ms + 1.5 ms latency and I can clearly hear this.=20
>>>>
>>>>Maybe my ears are just too friggin' sensitive and this teeny bit of =
>>>>latency wouldn't bother someone else. It sure bugs me though. I'll get =
>>>>Amy on the mic later on today and give this a go at 64k buffers (1.5ms).
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>Her hearing is twice as sensitive as mine. If it doesn't bother her, =
>>>>then it likely won't bother anyone else....(but me)
>>>>
>>>>;o)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:462d1367@linux...
>>>> so what are you using in place of the raptors?
>>>> I am running 2 10k rpm sata drives...1 OS and 1 audio.
>>>> I am running a 2.2gig AMD with 2gig ram. DDR400.
>>>> I am recording at 192k buffer and get clicks and pops when using VST =
>>>>realtime effects while tracking.
>>>> Cubase SX3.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --=20
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon=20
>>>> "Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote in message =
>>>>news:462d101f@linux...
>>>> Deej,
>>>> I've got that Silicon SATA on my Paris rig and it blows. Chris L. =
>>>>suggested the same.
>>>> I have had much better luck with standard ide.
>>>>
>>>> I'm glad you're not bailing so quickly!
>>>> Tom
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message =
>>>>news:462d0cdc$1@linux...
>>>> Well, from all of my previous posts, it's pretty obvious that I've
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>been=20
>>>> struggling with some issues with my system being able to track =
>>>>lots of live=20
>>>> inputs while monitoring previously recorded ones at low latency =
>>>>with ASIO=20
>>>> direct monitoring turned off.
>>>>
>>>> I've been doing some tweaking here this morning aand I just turned
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>off that=20
>>>> evil ****'in SIL SATA raid controller in the BIOS and pulled my =
>>>>Raptors off=20
>>>> the mobo.
>>>>
>>>> Something rather shocking has happened.
>>>>
>>>> I am currently playing back a 12 track project with Drumagog and =
>>>>various=20
>>>> UAD-1 plugins instantiated (not a huge load, but enough to =
>>>>accomplish some=20
>>>> ear candy which is all what I need here during dub sessions before
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>the real=20
>>>> mixing begins) while recording 20 live inputs at 64k buffers =
>>>>(1.5ms),=20
>>>> punching in and out at will. I can definitely live with 1.5ms =
>>>>latency.
>>>>
>>>> The Cubase 4 CPU meter is bouncing along at approximately 50% =
>>>>usage.
>>>>
>>>> I haven't configured the Control room mode for tracking just yet,
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>but unless=20
>>>> creating a few busses is a substantial CPU hit, I may be able to =
>>>>accomplish=20
>>>> what I need here with what I've got right now...............of =
>>>>course, this=20
>>>> will require me not to spend $2000.00 on a computer upgrade and =
>>>>that's never=20
>>>> good.
>>>>
>>>> ;o)=20
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
>>>> http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
>>>>
>>>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>>>><HTML><HEAD>
>>>><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>>>>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>>>><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16414" name=3DGENERATOR>
>>>><STYLE></STYLE>
>>>></HEAD>
>>>><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm just using a standard ATA 133 IDE =
>>>>drive. Plenty=20
>>>>of mojo for moderate track counts. </FONT></DIV>
>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've testing the *usability* of working
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>at 32k=20
>>>>buffers, 64k buffers and 128k buffers here this morning. I don't have =
>>>>the=20
>>>>horsepower to record and play back tracks simultaneously at 32k buffers
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>(0.7=20
>>>>ms). I did test recording a single track at 0.7 ms without =
>>>>any tracks=20
>>>>playing back and I can do it, but it sounds a teeny bit phasey to me. =
>>>>Not a show=20
>>>>stopper but definitely a difference when compared to using ASIO
>>>>direct=20
>>>>monitoring. I can play back 12 tracks and record 20 tracks =
>>>>with up to=20
>>>>around 25% of the DSP usage of my UAD-1's on the recorded tracks without
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>problems and the Cubase DSP meter is around 70% (this is sorta'
>>>>nervous=20
>>>>territory where you don't want to be mousing around too much). Disable =
>>>>the UAD-1=20
>>>>and it drops down to between 50-60%. The audible phasing at 64k (1.5ms =
>>>>latency)=20
>>>>is about as noticable as it is at 32k buffers (0.7ms latency). What
>>>>is=20
>>>>disturbing to me is that I'm hearing audible phasing at all at 32k =
>>>>buffers. Even=20
>>>>if I had a monster system that was able to stand up on it's hind legs =
>>>>and bark=20
>>>>at 0.7ms latency, I would be hearing audible phasing. I'm sure this is =
>>>>because=20
>>>>I'm not just hearing the latency that the buffer creates, I'm also =
>>>>hearing=20
>>>>another 1.5 ms latency that is created by the AD/DA conversion. =
>>>></FONT><FONT=20
>>>>face=3DArial size=3D2>ASIO direct monitoring is much more equivalent to
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>Paris=20
>>>>latency (zero audible) because all you're getting is the appx 1.5 ms of
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>the=20
>>>>AD/DA conversion. Once it exceeds that, I can hear it.</FONT></DIV>
>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>After all this crap I've gone through,
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>I think may=20
>>>>just get myself another Furman HRM-16 mixer for my desktop so I can =
>>>>monitor the=20
>>>>cue mix that is being sent to the rest of the studio via analog and see
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>if I can=20
>>>>create some kind of macro to switch all all track outputs to the =
>>>>main=20
>>>>monitor bus in the CR when everyone comes trooping in from the tracking
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>area to=20
>>>>listen in the CR.</FONT></DIV>
>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A bit more mousing around, but it's =
>>>>preferable to=20
>>>>hearing latency in the cans. I won't be able to monitor with FX on pre =
>>>>recorded=20
>>>>tracks, but this is just a fact of life with native systems I guess and
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>isn't a=20
>>>>deal killer. Looks like even the most powerful DAWs will be subject =
>>>>to at=20
>>>>least 0.7 ms + 1.5 ms latency and I can clearly hear this. </FONT></DIV>
>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Maybe my ears are just too friggin' =
>>>>sensitive and=20
>>>>this teeny bit of latency wouldn't bother someone else. It sure bugs me
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>though.=20
>>>>I'll get Amy on the mic later on today and give this a go at 64k buffers
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>(1.5ms). Her hearing is twice as sensitive as mine. If it doesn't bother
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>her,=20
>>>>then it likely won't bother anyone else....(but me)</FONT></DIV>
>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>;o)</FONT></DIV>
>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>><DIV> </DIV>
>>>><DIV>"Brandon" <<A href=3D"mailto:a@a.com">a@a.com</A>> wrote in =
>>>>message <A=20
>>>>href=3D"news:462d1367@linux">news:462d1367@linux</A>...</DIV>
>>>><BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
>>>>style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>>>>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>so what are you using in place of the=20
>>>> raptors?</FONT></DIV>
>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am running 2 10k rpm sata drives...1 OS and
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>1=20
>>>> audio.</FONT></DIV>
>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am running a 2.2gig AMD with 2gig ram.=20
>>>> DDR400.</FONT></DIV>
>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am recording at 192k buffer and get clicks =
>>>>and pops=20
>>>> when using VST realtime effects while tracking.</FONT></DIV>
>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Cubase SX3.</FONT></DIV>
>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
>>>> <DIV><BR>-- <BR>Thanks,</DIV>
>>>> <DIV> </DIV>
>>>> <DIV>Brandon </DIV>
>>>> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
>>>> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>>>>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>>> <DIV>"Tom Bruhl" <<A=20
>>>> href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>> =
>>>>wrote in=20
>>>> message <A =
>>>>href=3D"news:462d101f@linux">news:462d101f@linux</A>...</DIV>
>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Deej,</FONT></DIV>
>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've got that Silicon SATA on my =
>>>>Paris rig and=20
>>>> it blows. Chris L. suggested the same.</FONT></DIV>
>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have had much better luck with =
>>>></FONT><FONT=20
>>>> face=3DArial size=3D2>standard ide.</FONT></DIV>
>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm glad you're not bailing so=20
>>>> quickly!</FONT></DIV>
>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
>>>> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>>>>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>>> <DIV>"DJ" <<A=20
>>>> =
>>>>href=3D"http://www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com">www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com</A>>=20
>>>> wrote in message <A=20
>>>> =
>>>>href=3D"news:462d0cdc$1@linux">news:462d0cdc$1@linux</A>...</DIV>Well, =
>>>>from=20
>>>> all of my previous posts, it's pretty obvious that I've been=20
>>>> <BR>struggling with some issues with my system being able to track
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>lots of=20
>>>> live <BR>inputs while monitoring previously recorded ones at low =
>>>>latency=20
>>>> with ASIO <BR>direct monitoring turned off.<BR><BR>I've been doing
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>some=20
>>>> tweaking here this morning aand I just turned off that <BR>evil =
>>>>****'in=20
>>>> SIL SATA raid controller in the BIOS and pulled my Raptors off =
>>>><BR>the=20
>>>> mobo.<BR><BR>Something rather shocking has happened.<BR><BR>I am =
>>>>currently=20
>>>> playing back a 12 track project with Drumagog and various =
>>>><BR>UAD-1=20
>>>> plugins instantiated (not a huge load, but enough to accomplish =
>>>>some=20
>>>> <BR>ear candy which is all what I need here during dub sessions =
>>>>before the=20
>>>> real <BR>mixing begins) while recording 20 live inputs at 64k =
>>>>buffers=20
>>>> (1.5ms), <BR>punching in and out at will. I can definitely live =
>>>>with 1.5ms=20
>>>> latency.<BR><BR>The Cubase 4 CPU meter is bouncing along at =
>>>>approximately=20
>>>> 50% usage.<BR><BR>I haven't configured the Control room mode for =
>>>>tracking=20
>>>> just yet, but unless <BR>creating a few busses is a substantial =
>>>>CPU hit, I=20
>>>> may be able to accomplish <BR>what I need here with what I've got
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>>right=20
>>>> now...............of course, this <BR>will require me not to spend
>>>
>>>=
>>>
>>>> $2000.00 on a computer upgrade and that's never =
>>>><BR>good.<BR><BR>;o)=20
>>>> <BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
>>>> <DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight =
>>>>spam, and=20
>>>> you?<BR><A=20
>>>> =
>>>>href=3D"http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/refer=
>>>>.html</A> </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY>=
>>>></HTML>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
|
|
|
|
|
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|
| Re: HOLY *****!!!!!!-what a difference!!! [message #83608 is a reply to message #83602] |
Mon, 23 April 2007 19:53 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
http://www.markertek.com/Product.asp?baseItem=COL%2DLS3& cat=AUDIOEQUIP&subcat=AUDINT&prodClass=AUDCONV&m fg=Coleman+Audio&search=0&off=
Looks like this, and an insert cable from one of the headphone output of the
HRM-16 mixer to a pair of the inputs on the back of this thing would allow
me to switch to monitoring what is being played back from the tracking
busses through my control room monitors with the push of a button. I'm not
sure about the levels that would be output from the headphone amp though. I
have tried it and it's got enough gain to drive the PVC cleanly. I guess
I'd better look into this a bit further when I'm not so tired. It's been a
long day. I don't want to fry something by mismatching voltage/ impedance
between the headphone output and an input to a power amp driving my
monitors..
L/R input of the PVC. Furthermore, it's gonna have to boost the voltage to
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message news:462d5945@linux...
> OK then.. I was wondering why I was not having any *issues* with this. I
> have all mono inputs routed 1:1 to outs and the outs are feeding the mono
> or stereo L/R inputs of the HDS-16 with the prerecorded tracks routed to
> an analog pair of RME outs being sent to the main mix bus of the HDS-16.
> It looks like the Furman HDS-16 is a great thing for this particular
> situation. I was hoping to make it obsolete (and subsequently sell it off)
> by using the Cubase 4 CR function, but the latency just isn't acceptable.
> For tracking sessions I will use one of the HDS-16 mixers in the CR and
> route one of the headphone outs to one of my PVC's which are outputting to
> a pair of studio monitors. This will save much of the mousing around
> during tracking sessions and when I get ready for critical listening
> during a mix, I can just bus the recorded tracks as needed, monitoring off
> my mains which are digitally routed to the
> DAC-1...........QED!!!..errrr.......sorta'.
>
> Thanks,
> ;o)
>
>
> "EK Sound" <askme@nospam.com> wrote in message news:462d2e60@linux...
>> Stuff that is already recorded is no problem... you could set the buffers
>> to 1056 and everything would be cool. It's the "monitor what you are
>> currently recording" thing where latency is an issue. If you have a way
>> to monitor the recording signal using direct monitoring (the input is
>> usually routed to the same # output... 1 to 1, 2 to 2 etc.) then you are
>> good to go. If you are trying to monitor input 1 to output 7 for
>> instance, or a *mix* of several inputs to one output, the delay will be
>> noticeable. This is really noticable if you try to monitor a stereo and
>> mono track to one pair of outputs, as a stereo signal has twice the
>> latency of a mono one.
>>
>> David.
>>
>> DJ wrote:
>>> Neil,
>>>
>>> I have apparently been going at this native thing with some
>>> preconceptions about ASIO direct monitoring that aren't at all accurate.
>>> I haven't been doing much in the way of tracking (lots of mixing) so I
>>> guess that's understandable. I was under the impression that I would not
>>> be able to monitor previously recorded tracks with plugins inserted on
>>> the channels or sends while tracking unless I disabled ASIO direct
>>> monitoring. Obviously this is not the case. I just set my project to
>>> 512k buffers. It has 12 tracks already recorded. I enabled ASIO direct
>>> monitoring and inserted 9 UAD-1 plugins on various of the pre recorded
>>> tracks. I also installed one of my outboard reverbs as a send on a few
>>> of them. I have them all (including the outboard reverb) outputing to an
>>> analog pair that I'm sending to my Furman HDS-16 system. At the same
>>> time, I've got 20 more audio tracks recording. Since I have ADM there is
>>> no audible latency but the astounding thing about it is that I'm also
>>> hearing all of the prerecorded tracks that are being processed by the
>>> UAD-1 plugins during playback. The processing is working and it is very
>>> obvious, and there is no latency. I didn't think this was possible to
>>> do. My Cubase DSP meter is at about 10%. Hell, man, I could record 20
>>> tracks and play back 50 or 60 with no problem. Is this normal or some
>>> kind of happy accident/bug? I shouldn't be able to hear plugins on
>>> prerecorded tracks with ADM enabled, should I?
>>>
>>> At this point, the only inconvenience with a tracking session is having
>>> to mouse all of the tracks to the main monitor bus if I want to hear
>>> them through my DAC-1. Well, during tracking, I don't necessarily need
>>> to use my DAC-1 so I have an easy workaround bypass this to a pair of
>>> the RME outs and split them off to the HDS-16 and my NHT PVC
>>> simultaneously.
>>>
>>> Hell man.........this is great!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:462d2549$1@linux...
>>>
>>>>Deej, I just don't get how you're hearing ANY latency at all,
>>>>unless you have "ZLM" (zero-latency monitoring) unchecked in
>>>>Totalmix.
>>>>
>>>>I agree, even a little bit of latency bugs the crap out of me if
>>>>I'm tracking... where exactly is your monitor feed coming from?
>>>>IMO, you shouldn't hear any latency whatsoever - unless I'm
>>>>completely misunderstanding your setup (which is, let's face it,
>>>>quite possible).
>>>>
>>>>Neil
>>>>
>>>>"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm just using a standard ATA 133 IDE drive. Plenty of mojo for
>>>>>moderate
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>track counts.=20
>>>>>
>>>>>I've testing the *usability* of working at 32k buffers, 64k buffers and
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>128k buffers here this morning. I don't have the horsepower to record =
>>>>>and play back tracks simultaneously at 32k buffers (0.7 ms). I did test
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>recording a single track at 0.7 ms without any tracks playing back and
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>I can do it, but it sounds a teeny bit phasey to me. Not a show stopper
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>but definitely a difference when compared to using ASIO direct =
>>>>>monitoring. I can play back 12 tracks and record 20 tracks with up to
>>>>>=
>>>>>around 25% of the DSP usage of my UAD-1's on the recorded tracks
>>>>>without
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>problems and the Cubase DSP meter is around 70% (this is sorta' nervous
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>territory where you don't want to be mousing around too much). Disable
>>>>>=
>>>>>the UAD-1 and it drops down to between 50-60%. The audible phasing at =
>>>>>64k (1.5ms latency) is about as noticable as it is at 32k buffers
>>>>>(0.7ms
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>latency). What is disturbing to me is that I'm hearing audible phasing
>>>>>=
>>>>>at all at 32k buffers. Even if I had a monster system that was able to
>>>>>=
>>>>>stand up on it's hind legs and bark at 0.7ms latency, I would be
>>>>>hearing
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>audible phasing. I'm sure this is because I'm not just hearing the =
>>>>>latency that the buffer creates, I'm also hearing another 1.5 ms
>>>>>latency
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>that is created by the AD/DA conversion. ASIO direct monitoring is much
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>more equivalent to Paris latency (zero audible) because all you're =
>>>>>getting is the appx 1.5 ms of the AD/DA conversion. Once it exceeds =
>>>>>that, I can hear it.
>>>>>
>>>>>After all this crap I've gone through, I think may just get myself =
>>>>>another Furman HRM-16 mixer for my desktop so I can monitor the cue mix
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>that is being sent to the rest of the studio via analog and see if I
>>>>>can
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>create some kind of macro to switch all all track outputs to the main =
>>>>>monitor bus in the CR when everyone comes trooping in from the tracking
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>area to listen in the CR.
>>>>>
>>>>>A bit more mousing around, but it's preferable to hearing latency in
>>>>>the
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>cans. I won't be able to monitor with FX on pre recorded tracks, but =
>>>>>this is just a fact of life with native systems I guess and isn't a
>>>>>deal
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>killer. Looks like even the most powerful DAWs will be subject to at =
>>>>>least 0.7 ms + 1.5 ms latency and I can clearly hear this.=20
>>>>>
>>>>>Maybe my ears are just too friggin' sensitive and this teeny bit of =
>>>>>latency wouldn't bother someone else. It sure bugs me though. I'll get
>>>>>=
>>>>>Amy on the mic later on today and give this a go at 64k buffers
>>>>>(1.5ms).
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>Her hearing is twice as sensitive as mine. If it doesn't bother her, =
>>>>>then it likely won't bother anyone else....(but me)
>>>>>
>>>>>;o)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:462d1367@linux...
>>>>> so what are you using in place of the raptors?
>>>>> I am running 2 10k rpm sata drives...1 OS and 1 audio.
>>>>> I am running a 2.2gig AMD with 2gig ram. DDR400.
>>>>> I am recording at 192k buffer and get clicks and pops when using VST =
>>>>>realtime effects while tracking.
>>>>> Cubase SX3.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --=20
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Brandon=20
>>>>> "Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote in message =
>>>>>news:462d101f@linux...
>>>>> Deej,
>>>>> I've got that Silicon SATA on my Paris rig and it blows. Chris L. =
>>>>>suggested the same.
>>>>> I have had much better luck with standard ide.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm glad you're not bailing so quickly!
>>>>> Tom
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message =
>>>>>news:462d0cdc$1@linux...
>>>>> Well, from all of my previous posts, it's pretty obvious that I've
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>been=20
>>>>> struggling with some issues with my system being able to track =
>>>>>lots of live=20
>>>>> inputs while monitoring previously recorded ones at low latency =
>>>>>with ASIO=20
>>>>> direct monitoring turned off.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been doing some tweaking here this morning aand I just turned
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>off that=20
>>>>> evil ****'in SIL SATA raid controller in the BIOS and pulled my =
>>>>>Raptors off=20
>>>>> the mobo.
>>>>>
>>>>> Something rather shocking has happened.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am currently playing back a 12 track project with Drumagog and =
>>>>>various=20
>>>>> UAD-1 plugins instantiated (not a huge load, but enough to =
>>>>>accomplish some=20
>>>>> ear candy which is all what I need here during dub sessions before
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>the real=20
>>>>> mixing begins) while recording 20 live inputs at 64k buffers =
>>>>>(1.5ms),=20
>>>>> punching in and out at will. I can definitely live with 1.5ms =
>>>>>latency.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Cubase 4 CPU meter is bouncing along at approximately 50% =
>>>>>usage.
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven't configured the Control room mode for tracking just yet,
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>but unless=20
>>>>> creating a few busses is a substantial CPU hit, I may be able to =
>>>>>accomplish=20
>>>>> what I need here with what I've got right now...............of =
>>>>>course, this=20
>>>>> will require me not to spend $2000.00 on a computer upgrade and =
>>>>>that's never=20
>>>>> good.
>>>>>
>>>>> ;o)=20
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
>>>>> http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
>>>>>
>>>>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>>>>><HTML><HEAD>
>>>>><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>>>>>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>>>>><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16414" name=3DGENERATOR>
>>>>><STYLE></STYLE>
>>>>></HEAD>
>>>>><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm just using a standard ATA 133 IDE
>>>>>=
>>>>>drive. Plenty=20
>>>>>of mojo for moderate track counts. </FONT></DIV>
>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've testing the *usability* of
>>>>>working
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>at 32k=20
>>>>>buffers, 64k buffers and 128k buffers here this morning. I don't have =
>>>>>the=20
>>>>>horsepower to record and play back tracks simultaneously at 32k buffers
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>(0.7=20
>>>>>ms). I did test recording a single track at 0.7 ms without =
>>>>>any tracks=20
>>>>>playing back and I can do it, but it sounds a teeny bit phasey to me. =
>>>>>Not a show=20
>>>>>stopper but definitely a difference when compared to using ASIO
>>>>>direct=20
>>>>>monitoring. I can play back 12 tracks and record 20 tracks =
>>>>>with up to=20
>>>>>around 25% of the DSP usage of my UAD-1's on the recorded tracks
>>>>>without
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>problems and the Cubase DSP meter is around 70% (this is sorta'
>>>>>nervous=20
>>>>>territory where you don't want to be mousing around too much). Disable
>>>>>=
>>>>>the UAD-1=20
>>>>>and it drops down to between 50-60%. The audible phasing at 64k (1.5ms
>>>>>=
>>>>>latency)=20
>>>>>is about as noticable as it is at 32k buffers (0.7ms latency). What
>>>>>is=20
>>>>>disturbing to me is that I'm hearing audible phasing at all at 32k =
>>>>>buffers. Even=20
>>>>>if I had a monster system that was able to stand up on it's hind legs =
>>>>>and bark=20
>>>>>at 0.7ms latency, I would be hearing audible phasing. I'm sure this is
>>>>>=
>>>>>because=20
>>>>>I'm not just hearing the latency that the buffer creates, I'm also =
>>>>>hearing=20
>>>>>another 1.5 ms latency that is created by the AD/DA conversion. =
>>>>></FONT><FONT=20
>>>>>face=3DArial size=3D2>ASIO direct monitoring is much more equivalent to
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>Paris=20
>>>>>latency (zero audible) because all you're getting is the appx 1.5 ms of
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>the=20
>>>>>AD/DA conversion. Once it exceeds that, I can hear it.</FONT></DIV>
>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>After all this crap I've gone through,
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>I think may=20
>>>>>just get myself another Furman HRM-16 mixer for my desktop so I can =
>>>>>monitor the=20
>>>>>cue mix that is being sent to the rest of the studio via analog and see
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>if I can=20
>>>>>create some kind of macro to switch all all track outputs to the =
>>>>>main=20
>>>>>monitor bus in the CR when everyone comes trooping in from the tracking
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>area to=20
>>>>>listen in the CR.</FONT></DIV>
>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A bit more mousing around, but it's =
>>>>>preferable to=20
>>>>>hearing latency in the cans. I won't be able to monitor with FX on pre
>>>>>=
>>>>>recorded=20
>>>>>tracks, but this is just a fact of life with native systems I guess and
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>isn't a=20
>>>>>deal killer. Looks like even the most powerful DAWs will be subject =
>>>>>to at=20
>>>>>least 0.7 ms + 1.5 ms latency and I can clearly hear this.
>>>>></FONT></DIV>
>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Maybe my ears are just too friggin' =
>>>>>sensitive and=20
>>>>>this teeny bit of latency wouldn't bother someone else. It sure bugs me
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>though.=20
>>>>>I'll get Amy on the mic later on today and give this a go at 64k
>>>>>buffers
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>(1.5ms). Her hearing is twice as sensitive as mine. If it doesn't
>>>>>bother
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>her,=20
>>>>>then it likely won't bother anyone else....(but me)</FONT></DIV>
>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>;o)</FONT></DIV>
>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>><DIV> </DIV>
>>>>><DIV>"Brandon" <<A href=3D"mailto:a@a.com">a@a.com</A>> wrote in =
>>>>>message <A=20
>>>>>href=3D"news:462d1367@linux">news:462d1367@linux</A>...</DIV>
>>>>><BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
>>>>>style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>>>>>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>so what are you using in place of the=20
>>>>> raptors?</FONT></DIV>
>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am running 2 10k rpm sata drives...1 OS and
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>1=20
>>>>> audio.</FONT></DIV>
>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am running a 2.2gig AMD with 2gig ram.=20
>>>>> DDR400.</FONT></DIV>
>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am recording at 192k buffer and get clicks =
>>>>>and pops=20
>>>>> when using VST realtime effects while tracking.</FONT></DIV>
>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Cubase SX3.</FONT></DIV>
>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>> <DIV><BR>-- <BR>Thanks,</DIV>
>>>>> <DIV> </DIV>
>>>>> <DIV>Brandon </DIV>
>>>>> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
>>>>> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>>>>>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>>>> <DIV>"Tom Bruhl" <<A=20
>>>>> href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>> =
>>>>>wrote in=20
>>>>> message <A =
>>>>>href=3D"news:462d101f@linux">news:462d101f@linux</A>...</DIV>
>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Deej,</FONT></DIV>
>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've got that Silicon SATA on my =
>>>>>Paris rig and=20
>>>>> it blows. Chris L. suggested the same.</FONT></DIV>
>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have had much better luck with =
>>>>></FONT><FONT=20
>>>>> face=3DArial size=3D2>standard ide.</FONT></DIV>
>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm glad you're not bailing so=20
>>>>> quickly!</FONT></DIV>
>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
>>>>> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>>>>>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>>>> <DIV>"DJ" <<A=20
>>>>> =
>>>>>href=3D"http://www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com">www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com</A>>=20
>>>>> wrote in message <A=20
>>>>> =
>>>>>href=3D"news:462d0cdc$1@linux">news:462d0cdc$1@linux</A>...</DIV>Well,
>>>>>=
>>>>>from=20
>>>>> all of my previous posts, it's pretty obvious that I've been=20
>>>>> <BR>struggling with some issues with my system being able to track
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>lots of=20
>>>>> live <BR>inputs while monitoring previously recorded ones at low =
>>>>>latency=20
>>>>> with ASIO <BR>direct monitoring turned off.<BR><BR>I've been doing
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>some=20
>>>>> tweaking here this morning aand I just turned off that <BR>evil =
>>>>>****'in=20
>>>>> SIL SATA raid controller in the BIOS and pulled my Raptors off =
>>>>><BR>the=20
>>>>> mobo.<BR><BR>Something rather shocking has happened.<BR><BR>I am =
>>>>>currently=20
>>>>> playing back a 12 track project with Drumagog and various =
>>>>><BR>UAD-1=20
>>>>> plugins instantiated (not a huge load, but enough to accomplish =
>>>>>some=20
>>>>> <BR>ear candy which is all what I need here during dub sessions =
>>>>>before the=20
>>>>> real <BR>mixing begins) while recording 20 live inputs at 64k =
>>>>>buffers=20
>>>>> (1.5ms), <BR>punching in and out at will. I can definitely live =
>>>>>with 1.5ms=20
>>>>> latency.<BR><BR>The Cubase 4 CPU meter is bouncing along at =
>>>>>approximately=20
>>>>> 50% usage.<BR><BR>I haven't configured the Control room mode for =
>>>>>tracking=20
>>>>> just yet, but unless <BR>creating a few busses is a substantial =
>>>>>CPU hit, I=20
>>>>> may be able to accomplish <BR>what I need here with what I've got
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>>right=20
>>>>> now...............of course, this <BR>will require me not to spend
>>>>
>>>>=
>>>>
>>>>> $2000.00 on a computer upgrade and that's never =
>>>>><BR>good.<BR><BR>;o)=20
>>>>> <BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
>>>>> <DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight =
>>>>>spam, and=20
>>>>> you?<BR><A=20
>>>>> =
>>>>>href=3D"http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/refer=
>>>>>.html</A> </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY>=
>>>>></HTML>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: HOLY *****!!!!!!-what a difference!!! [message #83610 is a reply to message #83608] |
Mon, 23 April 2007 20:03 |
audioguy_editout_
Messages: 249
Registered: December 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Oh come on now!!! You could build that thing for $20! Get a
single space blank panel and build one using 4PDT
switches... You can rack it that way and it would look
better than a "desk wart".
David.
DJ wrote:
> http://www.markertek.com/Product.asp?baseItem=COL%2DLS3& cat=AUDIOEQUIP&subcat=AUDINT&prodClass=AUDCONV&m fg=Coleman+Audio&search=0&off=
>
> Looks like this, and an insert cable from one of the headphone output of the
> HRM-16 mixer to a pair of the inputs on the back of this thing would allow
> me to switch to monitoring what is being played back from the tracking
> busses through my control room monitors with the push of a button. I'm not
> sure about the levels that would be output from the headphone amp though. I
> have tried it and it's got enough gain to drive the PVC cleanly. I guess
> I'd better look into this a bit further when I'm not so tired. It's been a
> long day. I don't want to fry something by mismatching voltage/ impedance
> between the headphone output and an input to a power amp driving my
> monitors..
>
>
> L/R input of the PVC. Furthermore, it's gonna have to boost the voltage to
> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message news:462d5945@linux...
>
>>OK then.. I was wondering why I was not having any *issues* with this. I
>>have all mono inputs routed 1:1 to outs and the outs are feeding the mono
>>or stereo L/R inputs of the HDS-16 with the prerecorded tracks routed to
>>an analog pair of RME outs being sent to the main mix bus of the HDS-16.
>>It looks like the Furman HDS-16 is a great thing for this particular
>>situation. I was hoping to make it obsolete (and subsequently sell it off)
>>by using the Cubase 4 CR function, but the latency just isn't acceptable.
>>For tracking sessions I will use one of the HDS-16 mixers in the CR and
>>route one of the headphone outs to one of my PVC's which are outputting to
>>a pair of studio monitors. This will save much of the mousing around
>>during tracking sessions and when I get ready for critical listening
>>during a mix, I can just bus the recorded tracks as needed, monitoring off
>>my mains which are digitally routed to the
>>DAC-1...........QED!!!..errrr.......sorta'.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>;o)
>>
>>
>>"EK Sound" <askme@nospam.com> wrote in message news:462d2e60@linux...
>>
>>>Stuff that is already recorded is no problem... you could set the buffers
>>>to 1056 and everything would be cool. It's the "monitor what you are
>>>currently recording" thing where latency is an issue. If you have a way
>>>to monitor the recording signal using direct monitoring (the input is
>>>usually routed to the same # output... 1 to 1, 2 to 2 etc.) then you are
>>>good to go. If you are trying to monitor input 1 to output 7 for
>>>instance, or a *mix* of several inputs to one output, the delay will be
>>>noticeable. This is really noticable if you try to monitor a stereo and
>>>mono track to one pair of outputs, as a stereo signal has twice the
>>>latency of a mono one.
>>>
>>>David.
>>>
>>>DJ wrote:
>>>
>>>>Neil,
>>>>
>>>>I have apparently been going at this native thing with some
>>>>preconceptions about ASIO direct monitoring that aren't at all accurate.
>>>>I haven't been doing much in the way of tracking (lots of mixing) so I
>>>>guess that's understandable. I was under the impression that I would not
>>>>be able to monitor previously recorded tracks with plugins inserted on
>>>>the channels or sends while tracking unless I disabled ASIO direct
>>>>monitoring. Obviously this is not the case. I just set my project to
>>>>512k buffers. It has 12 tracks already recorded. I enabled ASIO direct
>>>>monitoring and inserted 9 UAD-1 plugins on various of the pre recorded
>>>>tracks. I also installed one of my outboard reverbs as a send on a few
>>>>of them. I have them all (including the outboard reverb) outputing to an
>>>>analog pair that I'm sending to my Furman HDS-16 system. At the same
>>>>time, I've got 20 more audio tracks recording. Since I have ADM there is
>>>>no audible latency but the astounding thing about it is that I'm also
>>>>hearing all of the prerecorded tracks that are being processed by the
>>>>UAD-1 plugins during playback. The processing is working and it is very
>>>>obvious, and there is no latency. I didn't think this was possible to
>>>>do. My Cubase DSP meter is at about 10%. Hell, man, I could record 20
>>>>tracks and play back 50 or 60 with no problem. Is this normal or some
>>>>kind of happy accident/bug? I shouldn't be able to hear plugins on
>>>>prerecorded tracks with ADM enabled, should I?
>>>>
>>>>At this point, the only inconvenience with a tracking session is having
>>>>to mouse all of the tracks to the main monitor bus if I want to hear
>>>>them through my DAC-1. Well, during tracking, I don't necessarily need
>>>>to use my DAC-1 so I have an easy workaround bypass this to a pair of
>>>>the RME outs and split them off to the HDS-16 and my NHT PVC
>>>>simultaneously.
>>>>
>>>>Hell man.........this is great!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:462d2549$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Deej, I just don't get how you're hearing ANY latency at all,
>>>>>unless you have "ZLM" (zero-latency monitoring) unchecked in
>>>>>Totalmix.
>>>>>
>>>>>I agree, even a little bit of latency bugs the crap out of me if
>>>>>I'm tracking... where exactly is your monitor feed coming from?
>>>>>IMO, you shouldn't hear any latency whatsoever - unless I'm
>>>>>completely misunderstanding your setup (which is, let's face it,
>>>>>quite possible).
>>>>>
>>>>>Neil
>>>>>
>>>>>"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm just using a standard ATA 133 IDE drive. Plenty of mojo for
>>>>>>moderate
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>track counts.=20
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I've testing the *usability* of working at 32k buffers, 64k buffers and
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>128k buffers here this morning. I don't have the horsepower to record =
>>>>>>and play back tracks simultaneously at 32k buffers (0.7 ms). I did test
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>recording a single track at 0.7 ms without any tracks playing back and
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I can do it, but it sounds a teeny bit phasey to me. Not a show stopper
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>but definitely a difference when compared to using ASIO direct =
>>>>>>monitoring. I can play back 12 tracks and record 20 tracks with up to
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>around 25% of the DSP usage of my UAD-1's on the recorded tracks
>>>>>>without
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>problems and the Cubase DSP meter is around 70% (this is sorta' nervous
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>territory where you don't want to be mousing around too much). Disable
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>the UAD-1 and it drops down to between 50-60%. The audible phasing at =
>>>>>>64k (1.5ms latency) is about as noticable as it is at 32k buffers
>>>>>>(0.7ms
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>latency). What is disturbing to me is that I'm hearing audible phasing
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>at all at 32k buffers. Even if I had a monster system that was able to
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>stand up on it's hind legs and bark at 0.7ms latency, I would be
>>>>>>hearing
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>audible phasing. I'm sure this is because I'm not just hearing the =
>>>>>>latency that the buffer creates, I'm also hearing another 1.5 ms
>>>>>>latency
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>that is created by the AD/DA conversion. ASIO direct monitoring is much
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>more equivalent to Paris latency (zero audible) because all you're =
>>>>>>getting is the appx 1.5 ms of the AD/DA conversion. Once it exceeds =
>>>>>>that, I can hear it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>After all this crap I've gone through, I think may just get myself =
>>>>>>another Furman HRM-16 mixer for my desktop so I can monitor the cue mix
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>that is being sent to the rest of the studio via analog and see if I
>>>>>>can
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>create some kind of macro to switch all all track outputs to the main =
>>>>>>monitor bus in the CR when everyone comes trooping in from the tracking
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>area to listen in the CR.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A bit more mousing around, but it's preferable to hearing latency in
>>>>>>the
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>cans. I won't be able to monitor with FX on pre recorded tracks, but =
>>>>>>this is just a fact of life with native systems I guess and isn't a
>>>>>>deal
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>killer. Looks like even the most powerful DAWs will be subject to at =
>>>>>>least 0.7 ms + 1.5 ms latency and I can clearly hear this.=20
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Maybe my ears are just too friggin' sensitive and this teeny bit of =
>>>>>>latency wouldn't bother someone else. It sure bugs me though. I'll get
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>Amy on the mic later on today and give this a go at 64k buffers
>>>>>>(1.5ms).
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Her hearing is twice as sensitive as mine. If it doesn't bother her, =
>>>>>>then it likely won't bother anyone else....(but me)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>;o)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:462d1367@linux...
>>>>>>so what are you using in place of the raptors?
>>>>>>I am running 2 10k rpm sata drives...1 OS and 1 audio.
>>>>>>I am running a 2.2gig AMD with 2gig ram. DDR400.
>>>>>>I am recording at 192k buffer and get clicks and pops when using VST =
>>>>>>realtime effects while tracking.
>>>>>>Cubase SX3.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--=20
>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Brandon=20
>>>>>> "Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote in message =
>>>>>>news:462d101f@linux...
>>>>>> Deej,
>>>>>> I've got that Silicon SATA on my Paris rig and it blows. Chris L. =
>>>>>>suggested the same.
>>>>>> I have had much better luck with standard ide.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm glad you're not bailing so quickly!
>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message =
>>>>>>news:462d0cdc$1@linux...
>>>>>> Well, from all of my previous posts, it's pretty obvious that I've
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>been=20
>>>>>> struggling with some issues with my system being able to track =
>>>>>>lots of live=20
>>>>>> inputs while monitoring previously recorded ones at low latency =
>>>>>>with ASIO=20
>>>>>> direct monitoring turned off.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been doing some tweaking here this morning aand I just turned
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>off that=20
>>>>>> evil ****'in SIL SATA raid controller in the BIOS and pulled my =
>>>>>>Raptors off=20
>>>>>> the mobo.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Something rather shocking has happened.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am currently playing back a 12 track project with Drumagog and =
>>>>>>various=20
>>>>>> UAD-1 plugins instantiated (not a huge load, but enough to =
>>>>>>accomplish some=20
>>>>>> ear candy which is all what I need here during dub sessions before
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>the real=20
>>>>>> mixing begins) while recording 20 live inputs at 64k buffers =
>>>>>>(1.5ms),=20
>>>>>> punching in and out at will. I can definitely live with 1.5ms =
>>>>>>latency.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Cubase 4 CPU meter is bouncing along at approximately 50% =
>>>>>>usage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I haven't configured the Control room mode for tracking just yet,
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>but unless=20
>>>>>> creating a few busses is a substantial CPU hit, I may be able to =
>>>>>>accomplish=20
>>>>>> what I need here with what I've got right now...............of =
>>>>>>course, this=20
>>>>>> will require me not to spend $2000.00 on a computer upgrade and =
>>>>>>that's never=20
>>>>>> good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ;o)=20
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
>>>>>> http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>>>>>><HTML><HEAD>
>>>>>><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>>>>>>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>>>>>><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16414" name=3DGENERATOR>
>>>>>><STYLE></STYLE>
>>>>>></HEAD>
>>>>>><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm just using a standard ATA 133 IDE
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>drive. Plenty=20
>>>>>>of mojo for moderate track counts. </FONT></DIV>
>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've testing the *usability* of
>>>>>>working
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>at 32k=20
>>>>>>buffers, 64k buffers and 128k buffers here this morning. I don't have =
>>>>>>the=20
>>>>>>horsepower to record and play back tracks simultaneously at 32k buffers
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>(0.7=20
>>>>>>ms). I did test recording a single track at 0.7 ms without =
>>>>>>any tracks=20
>>>>>>playing back and I can do it, but it sounds a teeny bit phasey to me. =
>>>>>>Not a show=20
>>>>>>stopper but definitely a difference when compared to using ASIO
>>>>>>direct=20
>>>>>>monitoring. I can play back 12 tracks and record 20 tracks =
>>>>>>with up to=20
>>>>>>around 25% of the DSP usage of my UAD-1's on the recorded tracks
>>>>>>without
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>problems and the Cubase DSP meter is around 70% (this is sorta'
>>>>>>nervous=20
>>>>>>territory where you don't want to be mousing around too much). Disable
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>the UAD-1=20
>>>>>>and it drops down to between 50-60%. The audible phasing at 64k (1.5ms
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>latency)=20
>>>>>>is about as noticable as it is at 32k buffers (0.7ms latency). What
>>>>>>is=20
>>>>>>disturbing to me is that I'm hearing audible phasing at all at 32k =
>>>>>>buffers. Even=20
>>>>>>if I had a monster system that was able to stand up on it's hind legs =
>>>>>>and bark=20
>>>>>>at 0.7ms latency, I would be hearing audible phasing. I'm sure this is
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>because=20
>>>>>>I'm not just hearing the latency that the buffer creates, I'm also =
>>>>>>hearing=20
>>>>>>another 1.5 ms latency that is created by the AD/DA conversion. =
>>>>>></FONT><FONT=20
>>>>>>face=3DArial size=3D2>ASIO direct monitoring is much more equivalent to
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Paris=20
>>>>>>latency (zero audible) because all you're getting is the appx 1.5 ms of
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>the=20
>>>>>>AD/DA conversion. Once it exceeds that, I can hear it.</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>After all this crap I've gone through,
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I think may=20
>>>>>>just get myself another Furman HRM-16 mixer for my desktop so I can =
>>>>>>monitor the=20
>>>>>>cue mix that is being sent to the rest of the studio via analog and see
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>if I can=20
>>>>>>create some kind of macro to switch all all track outputs to the =
>>>>>>main=20
>>>>>>monitor bus in the CR when everyone comes trooping in from the tracking
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>area to=20
>>>>>>listen in the CR.</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A bit more mousing around, but it's =
>>>>>>preferable to=20
>>>>>>hearing latency in the cans. I won't be able to monitor with FX on pre
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>recorded=20
>>>>>>tracks, but this is just a fact of life with native systems I guess and
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>isn't a=20
>>>>>>deal killer. Looks like even the most powerful DAWs will be subject =
>>>>>>to at=20
>>>>>>least 0.7 ms + 1.5 ms latency and I can clearly hear this.
>>>>>></FONT></DIV>
>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Maybe my ears are just too friggin' =
>>>>>>sensitive and=20
>>>>>>this teeny bit of latency wouldn't bother someone else. It sure bugs me
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>though.=20
>>>>>>I'll get Amy on the mic later on today and give this a go at 64k
>>>>>>buffers
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>(1.5ms). Her hearing is twice as sensitive as mine. If it doesn't
>>>>>>bother
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>her,=20
>>>>>>then it likely won't bother anyone else....(but me)</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>;o)</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>>><DIV> </DIV>
>>>>>><DIV>"Brandon" <<A href=3D"mailto:a@a.com">a@a.com</A>> wrote in =
>>>>>>message <A=20
>>>>>>href=3D"news:462d1367@linux">news:462d1367@linux</A>...</DIV>
>>>>>><BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
>>>>>>style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>>>>>>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>so what are you using in place of the=20
>>>>>>raptors?</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am running 2 10k rpm sata drives...1 OS and
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>1=20
>>>>>>audio.</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am running a 2.2gig AMD with 2gig ram.=20
>>>>>>DDR400.</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am recording at 192k buffer and get clicks =
>>>>>>and pops=20
>>>>>>when using VST realtime effects while tracking.</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Cubase SX3.</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>>><DIV><BR>-- <BR>Thanks,</DIV>
>>>>>><DIV> </DIV>
>>>>>><DIV>Brandon </DIV>
>>>>>><BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
>>>>>>style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>>>>>>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>>>>> <DIV>"Tom Bruhl" <<A=20
>>>>>> href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>> =
>>>>>>wrote in=20
>>>>>> message <A =
>>>>>>href=3D"news:462d101f@linux">news:462d101f@linux</A>...</DIV>
>>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Deej,</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've got that Silicon SATA on my =
>>>>>>Paris rig and=20
>>>>>> it blows. Chris L. suggested the same.</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have had much better luck with =
>>>>>></FONT><FONT=20
>>>>>> face=3DArial size=3D2>standard ide.</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm glad you're not bailing so=20
>>>>>> quickly!</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>>> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
>>>>>> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>>>>>>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>>>>> <DIV>"DJ" <<A=20
>>>>>> =
>>>>>>href=3D"http://www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com">www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com</A>>=20
>>>>>> wrote in message <A=20
>>>>>> =
>>>>>>href=3D"news:462d0cdc$1@linux">news:462d0cdc$1@linux</A>...</DIV>Well,
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>from=20
>>>>>> all of my previous posts, it's pretty obvious that I've been=20
>>>>>> <BR>struggling with some issues with my system being able to track
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>lots of=20
>>>>>> live <BR>inputs while monitoring previously recorded ones at low =
>>>>>>latency=20
>>>>>> with ASIO <BR>direct monitoring turned off.<BR><BR>I've been doing
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>some=20
>>>>>> tweaking here this morning aand I just turned off that <BR>evil =
>>>>>>****'in=20
>>>>>> SIL SATA raid controller in the BIOS and pulled my Raptors off =
>>>>>><BR>the=20
>>>>>> mobo.<BR><BR>Something rather shocking has happened.<BR><BR>I am =
>>>>>>currently=20
>>>>>> playing back a 12 track project with Drumagog and various =
>>>>>><BR>UAD-1=20
>>>>>> plugins instantiated (not a huge load, but enough to accomplish =
>>>>>>some=20
>>>>>> <BR>ear candy which is all what I need here during dub sessions =
>>>>>>before the=20
>>>>>> real <BR>mixing begins) while recording 20 live inputs at 64k =
>>>>>>buffers=20
>>>>>> (1.5ms), <BR>punching in and out at will. I can definitely live =
>>>>>>with 1.5ms=20
>>>>>> latency.<BR><BR>The Cubase 4 CPU meter is bouncing along at =
>>>>>>approximately=20
>>>>>> 50% usage.<BR><BR>I haven't configured the Control room mode for =
>>>>>>tracking=20
>>>>>> just yet, but unless <BR>creating a few busses is a substantial =
>>>>>>CPU hit, I=20
>>>>>> may be able to accomplish <BR>what I need here with what I've got
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>right=20
>>>>>> now...............of course, this <BR>will require me not to spend
>>>>>
>>>>>=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> $2000.00 on a computer upgrade and that's never =
>>>>>><BR>good.<BR><BR>;o)=20
>>>>>> <BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
>>>>>> <DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight =
>>>>>>spam, and=20
>>>>>> you?<BR><A=20
>>>>>> =
>>>>>>href=3D"http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/refer=
>>>>>>.html</A> </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY>=
>>>>>></HTML>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: HOLY *****!!!!!!-what a difference!!! [message #83612 is a reply to message #83610] |
Mon, 23 April 2007 20:07 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I think it's cute!!!................in a warty sorta' way.
;o)
"Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:462d73f6@linux...
> Oh come on now!!! You could build that thing for $20! Get a single space
> blank panel and build one using 4PDT switches... You can rack it that way
> and it would look better than a "desk wart".
>
> David.
>
> DJ wrote:
>
>> http://www.markertek.com/Product.asp?baseItem=COL%2DLS3& cat=AUDIOEQUIP&subcat=AUDINT&prodClass=AUDCONV&m fg=Coleman+Audio&search=0&off=
>>
>> Looks like this, and an insert cable from one of the headphone output of
>> the HRM-16 mixer to a pair of the inputs on the back of this thing would
>> allow me to switch to monitoring what is being played back from the
>> tracking busses through my control room monitors with the push of a
>> button. I'm not sure about the levels that would be output from the
>> headphone amp though. I have tried it and it's got enough gain to drive
>> the PVC cleanly. I guess I'd better look into this a bit further when
>> I'm not so tired. It's been a long day. I don't want to fry something by
>> mismatching voltage/ impedance between the headphone output and an input
>> to a power amp driving my monitors..
>>
>>
>> L/R input of the PVC. Furthermore, it's gonna have to boost the voltage
>> to
>> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message news:462d5945@linux...
>>
>>>OK then.. I was wondering why I was not having any *issues* with this. I
>>>have all mono inputs routed 1:1 to outs and the outs are feeding the mono
>>>or stereo L/R inputs of the HDS-16 with the prerecorded tracks routed to
>>>an analog pair of RME outs being sent to the main mix bus of the HDS-16.
>>>It looks like the Furman HDS-16 is a great thing for this particular
>>>situation. I was hoping to make it obsolete (and subsequently sell it
>>>off) by using the Cubase 4 CR function, but the latency just isn't
>>>acceptable. For tracking sessions I will use one of the HDS-16 mixers in
>>>the CR and route one of the headphone outs to one of my PVC's which are
>>>outputting to a pair of studio monitors. This will save much of the
>>>mousing around during tracking sessions and when I get ready for critical
>>>listening during a mix, I can just bus the recorded tracks as needed,
>>>monitoring off my mains which are digitally routed to the
>>>DAC-1...........QED!!!..errrr.......sorta'.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>;o)
>>>
>>>
>>>"EK Sound" <askme@nospam.com> wrote in message news:462d2e60@linux...
>>>
>>>>Stuff that is already recorded is no problem... you could set the
>>>>buffers to 1056 and everything would be cool. It's the "monitor what you
>>>>are currently recording" thing where latency is an issue. If you have a
>>>>way to monitor the recording signal using direct monitoring (the input
>>>>is usually routed to the same # output... 1 to 1, 2 to 2 etc.) then you
>>>>are good to go. If you are trying to monitor input 1 to output 7 for
>>>>instance, or a *mix* of several inputs to one output, the delay will be
>>>>noticeable. This is really noticable if you try to monitor a stereo and
>>>>mono track to one pair of outputs, as a stereo signal has twice the
>>>>latency of a mono one.
>>>>
>>>>David.
>>>>
>>>>DJ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Neil,
>>>>>
>>>>>I have apparently been going at this native thing with some
>>>>>preconceptions about ASIO direct monitoring that aren't at all
>>>>>accurate. I haven't been doing much in the way of tracking (lots of
>>>>>mixing) so I guess that's understandable. I was under the impression
>>>>>that I would not be able to monitor previously recorded tracks with
>>>>>plugins inserted on the channels or sends while tracking unless I
>>>>>disabled ASIO direct monitoring. Obviously this is not the case. I just
>>>>>set my project to 512k buffers. It has 12 tracks already recorded. I
>>>>>enabled ASIO direct monitoring and inserted 9 UAD-1 plugins on various
>>>>>of the pre recorded tracks. I also installed one of my outboard reverbs
>>>>>as a send on a few of them. I have them all (including the outboard
>>>>>reverb) outputing to an analog pair that I'm sending to my Furman
>>>>>HDS-16 system. At the same time, I've got 20 more audio tracks
>>>>>recording. Since I have ADM there is no audible latency but the
>>>>>astounding thing about it is that I'm also hearing all of the
>>>>>prerecorded tracks that are being processed by the UAD-1 plugins during
>>>>>playback. The processing is working and it is very obvious, and there
>>>>>is no latency. I didn't think this was possible to do. My Cubase DSP
>>>>>meter is at about 10%. Hell, man, I could record 20 tracks and play
>>>>>back 50 or 60 with no problem. Is this normal or some kind of happy
>>>>>accident/bug? I shouldn't be able to hear plugins on prerecorded tracks
>>>>>with ADM enabled, should I?
>>>>>
>>>>>At this point, the only inconvenience with a tracking session is having
>>>>>to mouse all of the tracks to the main monitor bus if I want to hear
>>>>>them through my DAC-1. Well, during tracking, I don't necessarily need
>>>>>to use my DAC-1 so I have an easy workaround bypass this to a pair of
>>>>>the RME outs and split them off to the HDS-16 and my NHT PVC
>>>>>simultaneously.
>>>>>
>>>>>Hell man.........this is great!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:462d2549$1@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Deej, I just don't get how you're hearing ANY latency at all,
>>>>>>unless you have "ZLM" (zero-latency monitoring) unchecked in
>>>>>>Totalmix.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I agree, even a little bit of latency bugs the crap out of me if
>>>>>>I'm tracking... where exactly is your monitor feed coming from?
>>>>>>IMO, you shouldn't hear any latency whatsoever - unless I'm
>>>>>>completely misunderstanding your setup (which is, let's face it,
>>>>>>quite possible).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Neil
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I'm just using a standard ATA 133 IDE drive. Plenty of mojo for
>>>>>>>moderate
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>track counts.=20
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I've testing the *usability* of working at 32k buffers, 64k buffers
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>128k buffers here this morning. I don't have the horsepower to record
>>>>>>>=
>>>>>>>and play back tracks simultaneously at 32k buffers (0.7 ms). I did
>>>>>>>test
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>recording a single track at 0.7 ms without any tracks playing back
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I can do it, but it sounds a teeny bit phasey to me. Not a show
>>>>>>>stopper
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>but definitely a difference when compared to using ASIO direct =
>>>>>>>monitoring. I can play back 12 tracks and record 20 tracks with up
>>>>>>>to =
>>>>>>>around 25% of the DSP usage of my UAD-1's on the recorded tracks
>>>>>>>without
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>problems and the Cubase DSP meter is around 70% (this is sorta'
>>>>>>>nervous
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>territory where you don't want to be mousing around too much).
>>>>>>>Disable =
>>>>>>>the UAD-1 and it drops down to between 50-60%. The audible phasing at
>>>>>>>=
>>>>>>>64k (1.5ms latency) is about as noticable as it is at 32k buffers
>>>>>>>(0.7ms
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>latency). What is disturbing to me is that I'm hearing audible
>>>>>>>phasing =
>>>>>>>at all at 32k buffers. Even if I had a monster system that was able
>>>>>>>to =
>>>>>>>stand up on it's hind legs and bark at 0.7ms latency, I would be
>>>>>>>hearing
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>audible phasing. I'm sure this is because I'm not just hearing the =
>>>>>>>latency that the buffer creates, I'm also hearing another 1.5 ms
>>>>>>>latency
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>that is created by the AD/DA conversion. ASIO direct monitoring is
>>>>>>>much
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>more equivalent to Paris latency (zero audible) because all you're =
>>>>>>>getting is the appx 1.5 ms of the AD/DA conversion. Once it exceeds =
>>>>>>>that, I can hear it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>After all this crap I've gone through, I think may just get myself =
>>>>>>>another Furman HRM-16 mixer for my desktop so I can monitor the cue
>>>>>>>mix
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>that is being sent to the rest of the studio via analog and see if I
>>>>>>>can
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>create some kind of macro to switch all all track outputs to the main
>>>>>>>=
>>>>>>>monitor bus in the CR when everyone comes trooping in from the
>>>>>>>tracking
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>area to listen in the CR.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>A bit more mousing around, but it's preferable to hearing latency in
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>cans. I won't be able to monitor with FX on pre recorded tracks, but
>>>>>>>=
>>>>>>>this is just a fact of life with native systems I guess and isn't a
>>>>>>>deal
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>killer. Looks like even the most powerful DAWs will be subject to at
>>>>>>>=
>>>>>>>least 0.7 ms + 1.5 ms latency and I can clearly hear this.=20
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Maybe my ears are just too friggin' sensitive and this teeny bit of =
>>>>>>>latency wouldn't bother someone else. It sure bugs me though. I'll
>>>>>>>get =
>>>>>>>Amy on the mic later on today and give this a go at 64k buffers
>>>>>>>(1.5ms).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Her hearing is twice as sensitive as mine. If it doesn't bother her,
>>>>>>>=
>>>>>>>then it likely won't bother anyone else....(but me)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>;o)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:462d1367@linux...
>>>>>>>so what are you using in place of the raptors?
>>>>>>>I am running 2 10k rpm sata drives...1 OS and 1 audio.
>>>>>>>I am running a 2.2gig AMD with 2gig ram. DDR400.
>>>>>>>I am recording at 192k buffer and get clicks and pops when using VST
>>>>>>>=
>>>>>>>realtime effects while tracking.
>>>>>>>Cubase SX3.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>--=20
>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Brandon=20
>>>>>>> "Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote in message =
>>>>>>>news:462d101f@linux...
>>>>>>> Deej,
>>>>>>> I've got that Silicon SATA on my Paris rig and it blows. Chris L. =
>>>>>>>suggested the same.
>>>>>>> I have had much better luck with standard ide.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm glad you're not bailing so quickly!
>>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message =
>>>>>>>news:462d0cdc$1@linux...
>>>>>>> Well, from all of my previous posts, it's pretty obvious that
>>>>>>> I've
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>been=20
>>>>>>> struggling with some issues with my system being able to track =
>>>>>>>lots of live=20
>>>>>>> inputs while monitoring previously recorded ones at low latency =
>>>>>>>with ASIO=20
>>>>>>> direct monitoring turned off.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've been doing some tweaking here this morning aand I just
>>>>>>> turned
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>off that=20
>>>>>>> evil ****'in SIL SATA raid controller in the BIOS and pulled my =
>>>>>>>Raptors off=20
>>>>>>> the mobo.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Something rather shocking has happened.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am currently playing back a 12 track project with Drumagog and
>>>>>>> =
>>>>>>>various=20
>>>>>>> UAD-1 plugins instantiated (not a huge load, but enough to =
>>>>>>>accomplish some=20
>>>>>>> ear candy which is all what I need here during dub sessions
>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>the real=20
>>>>>>> mixing begins) while recording 20 live inputs at 64k buffers =
>>>>>>>(1.5ms),=20
>>>>>>> punching in and out at will. I can definitely live with 1.5ms =
>>>>>>>latency.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Cubase 4 CPU meter is bouncing along at approximately 50% =
>>>>>>>usage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I haven't configured the Control room mode for tracking just yet,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>but unless=20
>>>>>>> creating a few busses is a substantial CPU hit, I may be able to
>>>>>>> =
>>>>>>>accomplish=20
>>>>>>> what I need here with what I've got right now...............of =
>>>>>>>course, this=20
>>>>>>> will require me not to spend $2000.00 on a computer upgrade and =
>>>>>>>that's never=20
>>>>>>> good.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ;o)=20
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
>>>>>>> http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>>>>>>><HTML><HEAD>
>>>>>>><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>>>>>>>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>>>>>>><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16414" name=3DGENERATOR>
>>>>>>><STYLE></STYLE>
>>>>>>></HEAD>
>>>>>>><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
>>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm just using a standard ATA 133
>>>>>>>IDE =
>>>>>>>drive. Plenty=20
>>>>>>>of mojo for moderate track counts. </FONT></DIV>
>>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've testing the *usability* of
>>>>>>>working
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>at 32k=20
>>>>>>>buffers, 64k buffers and 128k buffers here this morning. I don't have
>>>>>>>=
>>>>>>>the=20
>>>>>>>horsepower to record and play back tracks simultaneously at 32k
>>>>>>>buffers
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>(0.7=20
>>>>>>>ms). I did test recording a single track at 0.7 ms without =
>>>>>>>any tracks=20
>>>>>>>playing back and I can do it, but it sounds a teeny bit phasey to me.
>>>>>>>=
>>>>>>>Not a show=20
>>>>>>>stopper but definitely a difference when compared to using ASIO
>>>>>>>direct=20
>>>>>>>monitoring. I can play back 12 tracks and record 20 tracks =
>>>>>>>with up to=20
>>>>>>>around 25% of the DSP usage of my UAD-1's on the recorded tracks
>>>>>>>without
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>problems and the Cubase DSP meter is around 70% (this is sorta'
>>>>>>>nervous=20
>>>>>>>territory where you don't want to be mousing around too much).
>>>>>>>Disable =
>>>>>>>the UAD-1=20
>>>>>>>and it drops down to between 50-60%. The audible phasing at 64k
>>>>>>>(1.5ms =
>>>>>>>latency)=20
>>>>>>>is about as noticable as it is at 32k buffers (0.7ms latency). What
>>>>>>>is=20
>>>>>>>disturbing to me is that I'm hearing audible phasing at all at 32k =
>>>>>>>buffers. Even=20
>>>>>>>if I had a monster system that was able to stand up on it's hind legs
>>>>>>>=
>>>>>>>and bark=20
>>>>>>>at 0.7ms latency, I would be hearing audible phasing. I'm sure this
>>>>>>>is =
>>>>>>>because=20
>>>>>>>I'm not just hearing the latency that the buffer creates, I'm also =
>>>>>>>hearing=20
>>>>>>>another 1.5 ms latency that is created by the AD/DA conversion. =
>>>>>>></FONT><FONT=20
>>>>>>>face=3DArial size=3D2>ASIO direct monitoring is much more equivalent
>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Paris=20
>>>>>>>latency (zero audible) because all you're getting is the appx 1.5 ms
>>>>>>>of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>the=20
>>>>>>>AD/DA conversion. Once it exceeds that, I can hear it.</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>After all this crap I've gone
>>>>>>>through,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I think may=20
>>>>>>>just get myself another Furman HRM-16 mixer for my desktop so I can =
>>>>>>>monitor the=20
>>>>>>>cue mix that is being sent to the rest of the studio via analog and
>>>>>>>see
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>if I can=20
>>>>>>>create some kind of macro to switch all all track outputs to the =
>>>>>>>main=20
>>>>>>>monitor bus in the CR when everyone comes trooping in from the
>>>>>>>tracking
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>area to=20
>>>>>>>listen in the CR.</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A bit more mousing around, but it's
>>>>>>>=
>>>>>>>preferable to=20
>>>>>>>hearing latency in the cans. I won't be able to monitor with FX on
>>>>>>>pre =
>>>>>>>recorded=20
>>>>>>>tracks, but this is just a fact of life with native systems I guess
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>isn't a=20
>>>>>>>deal killer. Looks like even the most powerful DAWs will be subject =
>>>>>>>to at=20
>>>>>>>least 0.7 ms + 1.5 ms latency and I can clearly hear this.
>>>>>>></FONT></DIV>
>>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Maybe my ears are just too friggin'
>>>>>>>=
>>>>>>>sensitive and=20
>>>>>>>this teeny bit of latency wouldn't bother someone else. It sure bugs
>>>>>>>me
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>though.=20
>>>>>>>I'll get Amy on the mic later on today and give this a go at 64k
>>>>>>>buffers
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>(1.5ms). Her hearing is twice as sensitive as mine. If it doesn't
>>>>>>>bother
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>her,=20
>>>>>>>then it likely won't bother anyone else....(but me)</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>;o)</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>>>><DIV> </DIV>
>>>>>>><DIV>"Brandon" <<A href=3D"mailto:a@a.com">a@a.com</A>> wrote in =
>>>>>>>message <A=20
>>>>>>>href=3D"news:462d1367@linux">news:462d1367@linux</A>...</DIV>
>>>>>>><BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
>>>>>>>style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>>>>>>>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>so what are you using in place of the=20
>>>>>>>raptors?</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am running 2 10k rpm sata drives...1 OS and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>1=20
>>>>>>>audio.</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am running a 2.2gig AMD with 2gig ram.=20
>>>>>>>DDR400.</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am recording at 192k buffer and get clicks
>>>>>>>=
>>>>>>>and pops=20
>>>>>>>when using VST realtime effects while tracking.</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Cubase SX3.</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>>>><DIV><BR>-- <BR>Thanks,</DIV>
>>>>>>><DIV> </DIV>
>>>>>>><DIV>Brandon </DIV>
>>>>>>><BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
>>>>>>>style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>>>>>>>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>>>>>> <DIV>"Tom Bruhl" <<A=20
>>>>>>> href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>> =
>>>>>>>wrote in=20
>>>>>>> message <A =
>>>>>>>href=3D"news:462d101f@linux">news:462d101f@linux</A>...</DIV>
>>>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Deej,</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've got that Silicon SATA on my =
>>>>>>>Paris rig and=20
>>>>>>> it blows. Chris L. suggested the same.</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have had much better luck with =
>>>>>>></FONT><FONT=20
>>>>>>> face=3DArial size=3D2>standard ide.</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm glad you're not bailing so=20
>>>>>>> quickly!</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
>>>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>>>> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>>>> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
>>>>>>> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>>>>>>>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>>>>>> <DIV>"DJ" <<A=20
>>>>>>> =
>>>>>>>href=3D"http://www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com">www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com</A>>=20
>>>>>>> wrote in message <A=20
>>>>>>> =
>>>>>>>href=3D"news:462d0cdc$1@linux">news:462d0cdc$1@linux</A>...</DIV>Well,
>>>>>>>=
>>>>>>>from=20
>>>>>>> all of my previous posts, it's pretty obvious that I've been=20
>>>>>>> <BR>struggling with some issues with my system being able to
>>>>>>> track
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>lots of=20
>>>>>>> live <BR>inputs while monitoring previously recorded ones at low
>>>>>>> =
>>>>>>>latency=20
>>>>>>> with ASIO <BR>direct monitoring turned off.<BR><BR>I've been
>>>>>>> doing
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>some=20
>>>>>>> tweaking here this morning aand I just turned off that <BR>evil =
>>>>>>>****'in=20
>>>>>>> SIL SATA raid controller in the BIOS and pulled my Raptors off =
>>>>>>><BR>the=20
>>>>>>> mobo.<BR><BR>Something rather shocking has happened.<BR><BR>I am
>>>>>>> =
>>>>>>>currently=20
>>>>>>> playing back a 12 track project with Drumagog and various =
>>>>>>><BR>UAD-1=20
>>>>>>> plugins instantiated (not a huge load, but enough to accomplish =
>>>>>>>some=20
>>>>>>> <BR>ear candy which is all what I need here during dub sessions =
>>>>>>>before the=20
>>>>>>> real <BR>mixing begins) while recording 20 live inputs at 64k =
>>>>>>>buffers=20
>>>>>>> (1.5ms), <BR>punching in and out at will. I can definitely live =
>>>>>>>with 1.5ms=20
>>>>>>> latency.<BR><BR>The Cubase 4 CPU meter is bouncing along at =
>>>>>>>approximately=20
>>>>>>> 50% usage.<BR><BR>I haven't configured the Control room mode for
>>>>>>> =
>>>>>>>tracking=20
>>>>>>> just yet, but unless <BR>creating a few busses is a substantial =
>>>>>>>CPU hit, I=20
>>>>>>> may be able to accomplish <BR>what I need here with what I've got
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>right=20
>>>>>>> now...............of course, this <BR>will require me not to
>>>>>>> spend
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> $2000.00 on a computer upgrade and that's never =
>>>>>>><BR>good.<BR><BR>;o)=20
>>>>>>> <BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
>>>>>>> <DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight =
>>>>>>>spam, and=20
>>>>>>> you?<BR><A=20
>>>>>>> =
>>>>>>>href=3D"http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/refer=
>>>>>>>.html</A> </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY>=
>>>>>>></HTML>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>
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| Re: HOLY *****!!!!!!-what a difference!!! [message #83623 is a reply to message #83589] |
Tue, 24 April 2007 02:03 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
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|
what are your 20 dubs and what are the 12 original trks? seems like
kind of an unusual way of tracking. just curious.
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:41:38 -0600, "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com>
wrote:
>Well, from all of my previous posts, it's pretty obvious that I've been
>struggling with some issues with my system being able to track lots of live
>inputs while monitoring previously recorded ones at low latency with ASIO
>direct monitoring turned off.
>
>I've been doing some tweaking here this morning aand I just turned off that
>evil ****'in SIL SATA raid controller in the BIOS and pulled my Raptors off
>the mobo.
>
>Something rather shocking has happened.
>
>I am currently playing back a 12 track project with Drumagog and various
>UAD-1 plugins instantiated (not a huge load, but enough to accomplish some
>ear candy which is all what I need here during dub sessions before the real
>mixing begins) while recording 20 live inputs at 64k buffers (1.5ms),
>punching in and out at will. I can definitely live with 1.5ms latency.
>
>The Cubase 4 CPU meter is bouncing along at approximately 50% usage.
>
>I haven't configured the Control room mode for tracking just yet, but unless
>creating a few busses is a substantial CPU hit, I may be able to accomplish
>what I need here with what I've got right now...............of course, this
>will require me not to spend $2000.00 on a computer upgrade and that's never
>good.
>
>;o)
>
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