Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » DJ how is post Paris Life ?
| DJ how is post Paris Life ? [message #84670] |
Wed, 16 May 2007 11:06  |
![Rich[3] is currently offline](/theme/PARIS_Forum_Template/images/offline.png "Rich[3] is currently offline")
Rich[3]
Messages: 132
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I saw you had a few issues (Hard drive Raid issues etc...) awhile back, but
are you happy with the new system. Are you glad you moved? How bad was
the learning curve - any good books / DVD's etc. that helped?
What is the setup that you settled on and are you still using the portico
across the mains ...
I have Cubase SX 3 (Don N. helped me connetct it with Paris at one point)
- but I still always find myself back with Paris as it's so easy to track
in and mix in. Lack of time due to family and day job add to that!
And thanks for all the info your always providing....
|
|
|
|
| Re: DJ how is post Paris Life ? [message #84679 is a reply to message #84670] |
Wed, 16 May 2007 12:47  |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
From my own personal standpoint, it's hard to compare apples to apples but
these are the tradeoffs as I see them:
Paris had the advantage when tracking due to zero latency
Native can do this in another way with ASIO direct monitoring but you will
needa MADI rig or Furman HDS-16 for large sessions
Native is much better when it comes to integrating plugins like UAD-1
Native requires much more horsepower if you want to run it in low latency
mode like Paris-think dual socket mobo/dual core CPU
Native has higher sample rates available - Paris does not
Native does not have submix issues if you use the proper hardware-if you
don't, it definitely will when tracking (see references to Furman cue
system)
Native integrates VSTi's , but will require a separate computer right now to
run heavy VSTi track counts because of Windows memory limitations so that's
not much different than Paris. The cure for this would be either to use a
monster Mac or wait for the Vista suckage to be resolved...if ever.
Native has control surfaces available with automated faders and cool goodies
like that.
Native has great midi and some incredible flexiility as far as editing and
manipulating of audio tempo, etc.
It's nice being able to integrate everything on one machine for mixing.
There *is* a learning curve, but it's a fun one (for me). I still use the
Neve 5042. I think I would not like the sound of Cubase 4 *for my purposes*,
without it.
I think Paris sounds better right out of the box. Without a monster computer
and a tape emulator, native doesn't = Paris, IMO. With these items, it can,
and does. Cost wise, the more I/O, the greater the cost differential between
the two systems. To recreate my native system with as many I/O as my Paris
system had (as it will be in about 2 weeks), plus the ability to operate at
the same low latencies as Paris you would need:
3 x RME HDSP 9652's and 1 RME Multiface (2 of the HDSP's in the master
computer, the other in a slave box for streaming VSTi's to the master
box)-Appx $1800.00 street
1 x 13 slot Magma for the HDSP's in the Master box-appx $500.00 street
1 computer running an Opteron 185 CPU-could be built for around $1200.00
from scratch
1 computer running 2 x Opteron 2218 CPU's on a server system-could be built
for around $2500.00 from scratch
2 x RME ADI8-DS's-Street on two of these these is around $2400.00 ($1.2k a
piece average)
1 RME ADI4-DD-street is around $600.00
1 x Mytek Stereo 96 A/D-Street at $800.00
1 x Mytek Stereo 96 D/A-Street at $800.00
Lucid GenX6-Street at appx $400.00-to distribute WC from Mytek AD which is
used as a master clock
Neve 5042-$1650.00 (to get Parislike sound)
Furman HDS-16 cue system to cross RME HDSP submixes when tracking - $1500.00
(or an HDSP MADI system plus an HDSP AES 16 plus BOB-instead of using the
Multiface and 2 x HDSP 95652's-add another $2400.00 for this - there is also
a Friend-chip audio digitap patchbay that will accommodate some of this
crosscard routing for around $2k as another option. None of these options
are cheap.
Now add another Magma and 4 x UAD-1 cards-$2000.00
That's roughly $15 ,000.00 to around $18,000.00 + depending on how you go.
At this point, Pro Tools HD starts looking sorta viable if you need a big
system.
Compare the price of this to a 4 x EDS card/4 x MEC system with 4 x ADAT
cards per MEC and an A8it and A8ot and an IF2 in 3 of the 4 x MECs.
Appx prices last I looked-
4 x MEC @ $100.00- $400.00
3 A8iT @ $275.00 - $1650.00
3 x A8oT @ 275.00 -$1650.00
4 EDS @ $250.00= $1000.00
8 x ADAT cards @ 250.00= $2000.00 (not really necessary unless you want to
fully interface with another DAW like I was doing)-$2000.00
GenX6-$400.00
Nice D/A converter for monitoring -$800.00
computer to run Paris: Appx $1,000.00
computer to run VSTi's-Appx $1500.00
RME HDSP 9652 for VSTi box-$450.00
That's around $10,500-------or around $9000.00 with just a couple of ADAT
modules instead of eight of them.
First you should ask............do I need all of this I/O???, because if you
don't, your costs will go wayyyyy down with either system.
Is the difference in capabilities between the two systems worth the extra
money to you?. If you are happy with lots of workarounds to integrate
hardware and software with Paris, 44.1/48k sample rates and great sound once
you get it set up, I'd stay with Paris. You could buy a lot of nice hardware
processors to integrate with Paris with the extra money you would save by
staying away from native.
To go native, you're going to spend a lot more, especially when it comes to
a computer to run the system, but from an integration/workflow standpoint,
you're going to have fewer workarounds, but not eliminate them completely
unless you go with the horsepower that is available to a dual quad Mac
running Logic or Digital Performer. If you go with a Mac and the hardware I
have described, then add another 3500.00 - 4 K to the price of the native
system.
Things are getting ready to change pretty drastically in the near future
too, but for now, this is what you've got to work with if you want a 24
analog I/O with an additional 20 digital I/O native system that will achieve
the same performance level as Paris.
Deej
Deej.
Now for the native system, add 4 x UAD-1's and another 13 slot Magma to hold
them and for the Paris system, whatever hardware and software you think
would give you the same mojo. With Paris, you would have to alocate your
hardware, *per submix*, with native, you would have it avaliable for the
whole system.
Much less to deal with by way of workarounds with Native. Much more
expensive to get the same kind of sound.
..
I'm finding that without the benefit of a monster computer, I see no point
in going native
"Rich" <studiodog_99@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:464b480a$1@linux...
>
> I saw you had a few issues (Hard drive Raid issues etc...) awhile back,
> but
> are you happy with the new system. Are you glad you moved? How bad was
> the learning curve - any good books / DVD's etc. that helped?
>
> What is the setup that you settled on and are you still using the portico
> across the mains ...
>
> I have Cubase SX 3 (Don N. helped me connetct it with Paris at one point)
> - but I still always find myself back with Paris as it's so easy to
> track
> in and mix in. Lack of time due to family and day job add to that!
>
> And thanks for all the info your always providing....
|
|
|
|
| Re: DJ how is post Paris Life ? [message #84680 is a reply to message #84679] |
Wed, 16 May 2007 13:04 |
Rich[3]
Messages: 132
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Well if I did all this my wife would take my daughter and leave me, so I would
have more time... Hmmmm
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>From my own personal standpoint, it's hard to compare apples to apples but
>these are the tradeoffs as I see them:
>
>Paris had the advantage when tracking due to zero latency
>Native can do this in another way with ASIO direct monitoring but you will
>needa MADI rig or Furman HDS-16 for large sessions
>Native is much better when it comes to integrating plugins like UAD-1
>Native requires much more horsepower if you want to run it in low latency
>mode like Paris-think dual socket mobo/dual core CPU
>Native has higher sample rates available - Paris does not
>Native does not have submix issues if you use the proper hardware-if you
>don't, it definitely will when tracking (see references to Furman cue
>system)
>Native integrates VSTi's , but will require a separate computer right now
to
>run heavy VSTi track counts because of Windows memory limitations so that's
>not much different than Paris. The cure for this would be either to use
a
>monster Mac or wait for the Vista suckage to be resolved...if ever.
>Native has control surfaces available with automated faders and cool goodies
>like that.
>Native has great midi and some incredible flexiility as far as editing and
>manipulating of audio tempo, etc.
>It's nice being able to integrate everything on one machine for mixing.
>There *is* a learning curve, but it's a fun one (for me). I still use the
>Neve 5042. I think I would not like the sound of Cubase 4 *for my purposes*,
>without it.
>
>I think Paris sounds better right out of the box. Without a monster computer
>and a tape emulator, native doesn't = Paris, IMO. With these items, it can,
>and does. Cost wise, the more I/O, the greater the cost differential between
>the two systems. To recreate my native system with as many I/O as my Paris
>system had (as it will be in about 2 weeks), plus the ability to operate
at
>the same low latencies as Paris you would need:
>
>3 x RME HDSP 9652's and 1 RME Multiface (2 of the HDSP's in the master
>computer, the other in a slave box for streaming VSTi's to the master
>box)-Appx $1800.00 street
>1 x 13 slot Magma for the HDSP's in the Master box-appx $500.00 street
>1 computer running an Opteron 185 CPU-could be built for around $1200.00
>from scratch
>1 computer running 2 x Opteron 2218 CPU's on a server system-could be built
>for around $2500.00 from scratch
>2 x RME ADI8-DS's-Street on two of these these is around $2400.00 ($1.2k
a
>piece average)
>1 RME ADI4-DD-street is around $600.00
>1 x Mytek Stereo 96 A/D-Street at $800.00
>1 x Mytek Stereo 96 D/A-Street at $800.00
>Lucid GenX6-Street at appx $400.00-to distribute WC from Mytek AD which
is
>used as a master clock
>Neve 5042-$1650.00 (to get Parislike sound)
>Furman HDS-16 cue system to cross RME HDSP submixes when tracking - $1500.00
>(or an HDSP MADI system plus an HDSP AES 16 plus BOB-instead of using the
>Multiface and 2 x HDSP 95652's-add another $2400.00 for this - there is
also
>a Friend-chip audio digitap patchbay that will accommodate some of this
>crosscard routing for around $2k as another option. None of these options
>are cheap.
>Now add another Magma and 4 x UAD-1 cards-$2000.00
>
>That's roughly $15 ,000.00 to around $18,000.00 + depending on how you go.
>
>At this point, Pro Tools HD starts looking sorta viable if you need a big
>system.
>
>Compare the price of this to a 4 x EDS card/4 x MEC system with 4 x ADAT
>cards per MEC and an A8it and A8ot and an IF2 in 3 of the 4 x MECs.
>
>Appx prices last I looked-
>4 x MEC @ $100.00- $400.00
>3 A8iT @ $275.00 - $1650.00
>3 x A8oT @ 275.00 -$1650.00
>4 EDS @ $250.00= $1000.00
>8 x ADAT cards @ 250.00= $2000.00 (not really necessary unless you want
to
>fully interface with another DAW like I was doing)-$2000.00
>GenX6-$400.00
>Nice D/A converter for monitoring -$800.00
>computer to run Paris: Appx $1,000.00
>computer to run VSTi's-Appx $1500.00
>RME HDSP 9652 for VSTi box-$450.00
>
>That's around $10,500-------or around $9000.00 with just a couple of ADAT
>modules instead of eight of them.
>
>First you should ask............do I need all of this I/O???, because if
you
>don't, your costs will go wayyyyy down with either system.
>
>Is the difference in capabilities between the two systems worth the extra
>money to you?. If you are happy with lots of workarounds to integrate
>hardware and software with Paris, 44.1/48k sample rates and great sound
once
>you get it set up, I'd stay with Paris. You could buy a lot of nice hardware
>processors to integrate with Paris with the extra money you would save by
>staying away from native.
>
>To go native, you're going to spend a lot more, especially when it comes
to
>a computer to run the system, but from an integration/workflow standpoint,
>you're going to have fewer workarounds, but not eliminate them completely
>unless you go with the horsepower that is available to a dual quad Mac
>running Logic or Digital Performer. If you go with a Mac and the hardware
I
>have described, then add another 3500.00 - 4 K to the price of the native
>system.
>
>Things are getting ready to change pretty drastically in the near future
>too, but for now, this is what you've got to work with if you want a 24
>analog I/O with an additional 20 digital I/O native system that will achieve
>the same performance level as Paris.
>
>Deej
>
>
>Deej.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Now for the native system, add 4 x UAD-1's and another 13 slot Magma to
hold
>them and for the Paris system, whatever hardware and software you think
>would give you the same mojo. With Paris, you would have to alocate your
>hardware, *per submix*, with native, you would have it avaliable for the
>whole system.
>
>Much less to deal with by way of workarounds with Native. Much more
>expensive to get the same kind of sound.
>
>.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm finding that without the benefit of a monster computer, I see no point
>in going native
>"Rich" <studiodog_99@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:464b480a$1@linux...
>>
>> I saw you had a few issues (Hard drive Raid issues etc...) awhile back,
>> but
>> are you happy with the new system. Are you glad you moved? How bad
was
>> the learning curve - any good books / DVD's etc. that helped?
>>
>> What is the setup that you settled on and are you still using the portico
>> across the mains ...
>>
>> I have Cubase SX 3 (Don N. helped me connetct it with Paris at one point)
>> - but I still always find myself back with Paris as it's so easy to
>> track
>> in and mix in. Lack of time due to family and day job add to that!
>>
>> And thanks for all the info your always providing....
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: DJ how is post Paris Life ? [message #84682 is a reply to message #84679] |
Wed, 16 May 2007 13:27 |
Carl Amburn
Messages: 214
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I *think* all of this means that it's going ok..... :)
-Carl
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message news:464b614f@linux...
> From my own personal standpoint, it's hard to compare apples to apples but
> these are the tradeoffs as I see them:
>
> Paris had the advantage when tracking due to zero latency
> Native can do this in another way with ASIO direct monitoring but you will
> needa MADI rig or Furman HDS-16 for large sessions
> Native is much better when it comes to integrating plugins like UAD-1
> Native requires much more horsepower if you want to run it in low latency
> mode like Paris-think dual socket mobo/dual core CPU
> Native has higher sample rates available - Paris does not
> Native does not have submix issues if you use the proper hardware-if you
> don't, it definitely will when tracking (see references to Furman cue
> system)
> Native integrates VSTi's , but will require a separate computer right now
to
> run heavy VSTi track counts because of Windows memory limitations so
that's
> not much different than Paris. The cure for this would be either to use a
> monster Mac or wait for the Vista suckage to be resolved...if ever.
> Native has control surfaces available with automated faders and cool
goodies
> like that.
> Native has great midi and some incredible flexiility as far as editing and
> manipulating of audio tempo, etc.
> It's nice being able to integrate everything on one machine for mixing.
> There *is* a learning curve, but it's a fun one (for me). I still use the
> Neve 5042. I think I would not like the sound of Cubase 4 *for my
purposes*,
> without it.
>
> I think Paris sounds better right out of the box. Without a monster
computer
> and a tape emulator, native doesn't = Paris, IMO. With these items, it
can,
> and does. Cost wise, the more I/O, the greater the cost differential
between
> the two systems. To recreate my native system with as many I/O as my Paris
> system had (as it will be in about 2 weeks), plus the ability to operate
at
> the same low latencies as Paris you would need:
>
> 3 x RME HDSP 9652's and 1 RME Multiface (2 of the HDSP's in the master
> computer, the other in a slave box for streaming VSTi's to the master
> box)-Appx $1800.00 street
> 1 x 13 slot Magma for the HDSP's in the Master box-appx $500.00 street
> 1 computer running an Opteron 185 CPU-could be built for around $1200.00
> from scratch
> 1 computer running 2 x Opteron 2218 CPU's on a server system-could be
built
> for around $2500.00 from scratch
> 2 x RME ADI8-DS's-Street on two of these these is around $2400.00 ($1.2k a
> piece average)
> 1 RME ADI4-DD-street is around $600.00
> 1 x Mytek Stereo 96 A/D-Street at $800.00
> 1 x Mytek Stereo 96 D/A-Street at $800.00
> Lucid GenX6-Street at appx $400.00-to distribute WC from Mytek AD which is
> used as a master clock
> Neve 5042-$1650.00 (to get Parislike sound)
> Furman HDS-16 cue system to cross RME HDSP submixes when tracking -
$1500.00
> (or an HDSP MADI system plus an HDSP AES 16 plus BOB-instead of using the
> Multiface and 2 x HDSP 95652's-add another $2400.00 for this - there is
also
> a Friend-chip audio digitap patchbay that will accommodate some of this
> crosscard routing for around $2k as another option. None of these options
> are cheap.
> Now add another Magma and 4 x UAD-1 cards-$2000.00
>
> That's roughly $15 ,000.00 to around $18,000.00 + depending on how you go.
>
> At this point, Pro Tools HD starts looking sorta viable if you need a big
> system.
>
> Compare the price of this to a 4 x EDS card/4 x MEC system with 4 x ADAT
> cards per MEC and an A8it and A8ot and an IF2 in 3 of the 4 x MECs.
>
> Appx prices last I looked-
> 4 x MEC @ $100.00- $400.00
> 3 A8iT @ $275.00 - $1650.00
> 3 x A8oT @ 275.00 -$1650.00
> 4 EDS @ $250.00= $1000.00
> 8 x ADAT cards @ 250.00= $2000.00 (not really necessary unless you want to
> fully interface with another DAW like I was doing)-$2000.00
> GenX6-$400.00
> Nice D/A converter for monitoring -$800.00
> computer to run Paris: Appx $1,000.00
> computer to run VSTi's-Appx $1500.00
> RME HDSP 9652 for VSTi box-$450.00
>
> That's around $10,500-------or around $9000.00 with just a couple of ADAT
> modules instead of eight of them.
>
> First you should ask............do I need all of this I/O???, because if
you
> don't, your costs will go wayyyyy down with either system.
>
> Is the difference in capabilities between the two systems worth the extra
> money to you?. If you are happy with lots of workarounds to integrate
> hardware and software with Paris, 44.1/48k sample rates and great sound
once
> you get it set up, I'd stay with Paris. You could buy a lot of nice
hardware
> processors to integrate with Paris with the extra money you would save by
> staying away from native.
>
> To go native, you're going to spend a lot more, especially when it comes
to
> a computer to run the system, but from an integration/workflow standpoint,
> you're going to have fewer workarounds, but not eliminate them completely
> unless you go with the horsepower that is available to a dual quad Mac
> running Logic or Digital Performer. If you go with a Mac and the hardware
I
> have described, then add another 3500.00 - 4 K to the price of the native
> system.
>
> Things are getting ready to change pretty drastically in the near future
> too, but for now, this is what you've got to work with if you want a 24
> analog I/O with an additional 20 digital I/O native system that will
achieve
> the same performance level as Paris.
>
> Deej
>
>
> Deej.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Now for the native system, add 4 x UAD-1's and another 13 slot Magma to
hold
> them and for the Paris system, whatever hardware and software you think
> would give you the same mojo. With Paris, you would have to alocate your
> hardware, *per submix*, with native, you would have it avaliable for the
> whole system.
>
> Much less to deal with by way of workarounds with Native. Much more
> expensive to get the same kind of sound.
>
> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm finding that without the benefit of a monster computer, I see no
point
> in going native
> "Rich" <studiodog_99@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:464b480a$1@linux...
> >
> > I saw you had a few issues (Hard drive Raid issues etc...) awhile back,
> > but
> > are you happy with the new system. Are you glad you moved? How bad
was
> > the learning curve - any good books / DVD's etc. that helped?
> >
> > What is the setup that you settled on and are you still using the
portico
> > across the mains ...
> >
> > I have Cubase SX 3 (Don N. helped me connetct it with Paris at one
point)
> > - but I still always find myself back with Paris as it's so easy to
> > track
> > in and mix in. Lack of time due to family and day job add to that!
> >
> > And thanks for all the info your always providing....
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: DJ how is post Paris Life ? [message #84683 is a reply to message #84682] |
Wed, 16 May 2007 13:43 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Not necessarily. Once I get everything on one machine (which was the whole
point of going native), then everything will be OK. I'm really not sure
that's going to be a practical option, even with a more powerful machine
though. However, are simpler and easier now than they were.
;o)
"Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote in message
news:464b6a82@linux...
>I *think* all of this means that it's going ok..... :)
>
> -Carl
>
> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message news:464b614f@linux...
>> From my own personal standpoint, it's hard to compare apples to apples
>> but
>> these are the tradeoffs as I see them:
>>
>> Paris had the advantage when tracking due to zero latency
>> Native can do this in another way with ASIO direct monitoring but you
>> will
>> needa MADI rig or Furman HDS-16 for large sessions
>> Native is much better when it comes to integrating plugins like UAD-1
>> Native requires much more horsepower if you want to run it in low latency
>> mode like Paris-think dual socket mobo/dual core CPU
>> Native has higher sample rates available - Paris does not
>> Native does not have submix issues if you use the proper hardware-if you
>> don't, it definitely will when tracking (see references to Furman cue
>> system)
>> Native integrates VSTi's , but will require a separate computer right now
> to
>> run heavy VSTi track counts because of Windows memory limitations so
> that's
>> not much different than Paris. The cure for this would be either to use a
>> monster Mac or wait for the Vista suckage to be resolved...if ever.
>> Native has control surfaces available with automated faders and cool
> goodies
>> like that.
>> Native has great midi and some incredible flexiility as far as editing
>> and
>> manipulating of audio tempo, etc.
>> It's nice being able to integrate everything on one machine for mixing.
>> There *is* a learning curve, but it's a fun one (for me). I still use the
>> Neve 5042. I think I would not like the sound of Cubase 4 *for my
> purposes*,
>> without it.
>>
>> I think Paris sounds better right out of the box. Without a monster
> computer
>> and a tape emulator, native doesn't = Paris, IMO. With these items, it
> can,
>> and does. Cost wise, the more I/O, the greater the cost differential
> between
>> the two systems. To recreate my native system with as many I/O as my
>> Paris
>> system had (as it will be in about 2 weeks), plus the ability to operate
> at
>> the same low latencies as Paris you would need:
>>
>> 3 x RME HDSP 9652's and 1 RME Multiface (2 of the HDSP's in the master
>> computer, the other in a slave box for streaming VSTi's to the master
>> box)-Appx $1800.00 street
>> 1 x 13 slot Magma for the HDSP's in the Master box-appx $500.00 street
>> 1 computer running an Opteron 185 CPU-could be built for around $1200.00
>> from scratch
>> 1 computer running 2 x Opteron 2218 CPU's on a server system-could be
> built
>> for around $2500.00 from scratch
>> 2 x RME ADI8-DS's-Street on two of these these is around $2400.00 ($1.2k
>> a
>> piece average)
>> 1 RME ADI4-DD-street is around $600.00
>> 1 x Mytek Stereo 96 A/D-Street at $800.00
>> 1 x Mytek Stereo 96 D/A-Street at $800.00
>> Lucid GenX6-Street at appx $400.00-to distribute WC from Mytek AD which
>> is
>> used as a master clock
>> Neve 5042-$1650.00 (to get Parislike sound)
>> Furman HDS-16 cue system to cross RME HDSP submixes when tracking -
> $1500.00
>> (or an HDSP MADI system plus an HDSP AES 16 plus BOB-instead of using the
>> Multiface and 2 x HDSP 95652's-add another $2400.00 for this - there is
> also
>> a Friend-chip audio digitap patchbay that will accommodate some of this
>> crosscard routing for around $2k as another option. None of these options
>> are cheap.
>> Now add another Magma and 4 x UAD-1 cards-$2000.00
>>
>> That's roughly $15 ,000.00 to around $18,000.00 + depending on how you
>> go.
>>
>> At this point, Pro Tools HD starts looking sorta viable if you need a big
>> system.
>>
>> Compare the price of this to a 4 x EDS card/4 x MEC system with 4 x ADAT
>> cards per MEC and an A8it and A8ot and an IF2 in 3 of the 4 x MECs.
>>
>> Appx prices last I looked-
>> 4 x MEC @ $100.00- $400.00
>> 3 A8iT @ $275.00 - $1650.00
>> 3 x A8oT @ 275.00 -$1650.00
>> 4 EDS @ $250.00= $1000.00
>> 8 x ADAT cards @ 250.00= $2000.00 (not really necessary unless you want
>> to
>> fully interface with another DAW like I was doing)-$2000.00
>> GenX6-$400.00
>> Nice D/A converter for monitoring -$800.00
>> computer to run Paris: Appx $1,000.00
>> computer to run VSTi's-Appx $1500.00
>> RME HDSP 9652 for VSTi box-$450.00
>>
>> That's around $10,500-------or around $9000.00 with just a couple of ADAT
>> modules instead of eight of them.
>>
>> First you should ask............do I need all of this I/O???, because if
> you
>> don't, your costs will go wayyyyy down with either system.
>>
>> Is the difference in capabilities between the two systems worth the extra
>> money to you?. If you are happy with lots of workarounds to integrate
>> hardware and software with Paris, 44.1/48k sample rates and great sound
> once
>> you get it set up, I'd stay with Paris. You could buy a lot of nice
> hardware
>> processors to integrate with Paris with the extra money you would save by
>> staying away from native.
>>
>> To go native, you're going to spend a lot more, especially when it comes
> to
>> a computer to run the system, but from an integration/workflow
>> standpoint,
>> you're going to have fewer workarounds, but not eliminate them completely
>> unless you go with the horsepower that is available to a dual quad Mac
>> running Logic or Digital Performer. If you go with a Mac and the hardware
> I
>> have described, then add another 3500.00 - 4 K to the price of the native
>> system.
>>
>> Things are getting ready to change pretty drastically in the near future
>> too, but for now, this is what you've got to work with if you want a 24
>> analog I/O with an additional 20 digital I/O native system that will
> achieve
>> the same performance level as Paris.
>>
>> Deej
>>
>>
>> Deej.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Now for the native system, add 4 x UAD-1's and another 13 slot Magma to
> hold
>> them and for the Paris system, whatever hardware and software you think
>> would give you the same mojo. With Paris, you would have to alocate your
>> hardware, *per submix*, with native, you would have it avaliable for the
>> whole system.
>>
>> Much less to deal with by way of workarounds with Native. Much more
>> expensive to get the same kind of sound.
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm finding that without the benefit of a monster computer, I see no
> point
>> in going native
>> "Rich" <studiodog_99@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:464b480a$1@linux...
>> >
>> > I saw you had a few issues (Hard drive Raid issues etc...) awhile back,
>> > but
>> > are you happy with the new system. Are you glad you moved? How bad
> was
>> > the learning curve - any good books / DVD's etc. that helped?
>> >
>> > What is the setup that you settled on and are you still using the
> portico
>> > across the mains ...
>> >
>> > I have Cubase SX 3 (Don N. helped me connetct it with Paris at one
> point)
>> > - but I still always find myself back with Paris as it's so easy to
>> > track
>> > in and mix in. Lack of time due to family and day job add to that!
>> >
>> > And thanks for all the info your always providing....
>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: DJ how is post Paris Life ? [message #84684 is a reply to message #84683] |
Wed, 16 May 2007 14:01 |
Rich[3]
Messages: 132
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
But you like the RME stuff and find it stable (RME HDSP 9652's and RME Multiface)?
The Neve 5042 is that good that it's worth the cost?
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>Not necessarily. Once I get everything on one machine (which was the whole
>point of going native), then everything will be OK. I'm really not sure
>that's going to be a practical option, even with a more powerful machine
>though. However, are simpler and easier now than they were.
>
>;o)
>
>"Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote in message
>news:464b6a82@linux...
>>I *think* all of this means that it's going ok..... :)
>>
>> -Carl
>>
>> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message news:464b614f@linux...
>>> From my own personal standpoint, it's hard to compare apples to apples
>>> but
>>> these are the tradeoffs as I see them:
>>>
>>> Paris had the advantage when tracking due to zero latency
>>> Native can do this in another way with ASIO direct monitoring but you
>>> will
>>> needa MADI rig or Furman HDS-16 for large sessions
>>> Native is much better when it comes to integrating plugins like UAD-1
>>> Native requires much more horsepower if you want to run it in low latency
>>> mode like Paris-think dual socket mobo/dual core CPU
>>> Native has higher sample rates available - Paris does not
>>> Native does not have submix issues if you use the proper hardware-if
you
>>> don't, it definitely will when tracking (see references to Furman cue
>>> system)
>>> Native integrates VSTi's , but will require a separate computer right
now
>> to
>>> run heavy VSTi track counts because of Windows memory limitations so
>> that's
>>> not much different than Paris. The cure for this would be either to use
a
>>> monster Mac or wait for the Vista suckage to be resolved...if ever.
>>> Native has control surfaces available with automated faders and cool
>> goodies
>>> like that.
>>> Native has great midi and some incredible flexiility as far as editing
>>> and
>>> manipulating of audio tempo, etc.
>>> It's nice being able to integrate everything on one machine for mixing.
>>> There *is* a learning curve, but it's a fun one (for me). I still use
the
>>> Neve 5042. I think I would not like the sound of Cubase 4 *for my
>> purposes*,
>>> without it.
>>>
>>> I think Paris sounds better right out of the box. Without a monster
>> computer
>>> and a tape emulator, native doesn't = Paris, IMO. With these items, it
>> can,
>>> and does. Cost wise, the more I/O, the greater the cost differential
>> between
>>> the two systems. To recreate my native system with as many I/O as my
>>> Paris
>>> system had (as it will be in about 2 weeks), plus the ability to operate
>> at
>>> the same low latencies as Paris you would need:
>>>
>>> 3 x RME HDSP 9652's and 1 RME Multiface (2 of the HDSP's in the master
>>> computer, the other in a slave box for streaming VSTi's to the master
>>> box)-Appx $1800.00 street
>>> 1 x 13 slot Magma for the HDSP's in the Master box-appx $500.00 street
>>> 1 computer running an Opteron 185 CPU-could be built for around $1200.00
>>> from scratch
>>> 1 computer running 2 x Opteron 2218 CPU's on a server system-could be
>> built
>>> for around $2500.00 from scratch
>>> 2 x RME ADI8-DS's-Street on two of these these is around $2400.00 ($1.2k
>>> a
>>> piece average)
>>> 1 RME ADI4-DD-street is around $600.00
>>> 1 x Mytek Stereo 96 A/D-Street at $800.00
>>> 1 x Mytek Stereo 96 D/A-Street at $800.00
>>> Lucid GenX6-Street at appx $400.00-to distribute WC from Mytek AD which
>>> is
>>> used as a master clock
>>> Neve 5042-$1650.00 (to get Parislike sound)
>>> Furman HDS-16 cue system to cross RME HDSP submixes when tracking -
>> $1500.00
>>> (or an HDSP MADI system plus an HDSP AES 16 plus BOB-instead of using
the
>>> Multiface and 2 x HDSP 95652's-add another $2400.00 for this - there
is
>> also
>>> a Friend-chip audio digitap patchbay that will accommodate some of this
>>> crosscard routing for around $2k as another option. None of these options
>>> are cheap.
>>> Now add another Magma and 4 x UAD-1 cards-$2000.00
>>>
>>> That's roughly $15 ,000.00 to around $18,000.00 + depending on how you
>>> go.
>>>
>>> At this point, Pro Tools HD starts looking sorta viable if you need a
big
>>> system.
>>>
>>> Compare the price of this to a 4 x EDS card/4 x MEC system with 4 x ADAT
>>> cards per MEC and an A8it and A8ot and an IF2 in 3 of the 4 x MECs.
>>>
>>> Appx prices last I looked-
>>> 4 x MEC @ $100.00- $400.00
>>> 3 A8iT @ $275.00 - $1650.00
>>> 3 x A8oT @ 275.00 -$1650.00
>>> 4 EDS @ $250.00= $1000.00
>>> 8 x ADAT cards @ 250.00= $2000.00 (not really necessary unless you want
>>> to
>>> fully interface with another DAW like I was doing)-$2000.00
>>> GenX6-$400.00
>>> Nice D/A converter for monitoring -$800.00
>>> computer to run Paris: Appx $1,000.00
>>> computer to run VSTi's-Appx $1500.00
>>> RME HDSP 9652 for VSTi box-$450.00
>>>
>>> That's around $10,500-------or around $9000.00 with just a couple of
ADAT
>>> modules instead of eight of them.
>>>
>>> First you should ask............do I need all of this I/O???, because
if
>> you
>>> don't, your costs will go wayyyyy down with either system.
>>>
>>> Is the difference in capabilities between the two systems worth the extra
>>> money to you?. If you are happy with lots of workarounds to integrate
>>> hardware and software with Paris, 44.1/48k sample rates and great sound
>> once
>>> you get it set up, I'd stay with Paris. You could buy a lot of nice
>> hardware
>>> processors to integrate with Paris with the extra money you would save
by
>>> staying away from native.
>>>
>>> To go native, you're going to spend a lot more, especially when it comes
>> to
>>> a computer to run the system, but from an integration/workflow
>>> standpoint,
>>> you're going to have fewer workarounds, but not eliminate them completely
>>> unless you go with the horsepower that is available to a dual quad Mac
>>> running Logic or Digital Performer. If you go with a Mac and the hardware
>> I
>>> have described, then add another 3500.00 - 4 K to the price of the native
>>> system.
>>>
>>> Things are getting ready to change pretty drastically in the near future
>>> too, but for now, this is what you've got to work with if you want a
24
>>> analog I/O with an additional 20 digital I/O native system that will
>> achieve
>>> the same performance level as Paris.
>>>
>>> Deej
>>>
>>>
>>> Deej.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Now for the native system, add 4 x UAD-1's and another 13 slot Magma
to
>> hold
>>> them and for the Paris system, whatever hardware and software you think
>>> would give you the same mojo. With Paris, you would have to alocate your
>>> hardware, *per submix*, with native, you would have it avaliable for
the
>>> whole system.
>>>
>>> Much less to deal with by way of workarounds with Native. Much more
>>> expensive to get the same kind of sound.
>>>
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm finding that without the benefit of a monster computer, I see no
>> point
>>> in going native
>>> "Rich" <studiodog_99@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:464b480a$1@linux...
>>> >
>>> > I saw you had a few issues (Hard drive Raid issues etc...) awhile back,
>>> > but
>>> > are you happy with the new system. Are you glad you moved? How
bad
>> was
>>> > the learning curve - any good books / DVD's etc. that helped?
>>> >
>>> > What is the setup that you settled on and are you still using the
>> portico
>>> > across the mains ...
>>> >
>>> > I have Cubase SX 3 (Don N. helped me connetct it with Paris at one
>> point)
>>> > - but I still always find myself back with Paris as it's so easy
to
>>> > track
>>> > in and mix in. Lack of time due to family and day job add to that!
>>> >
>>> > And thanks for all the info your always providing....
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: DJ how is post Paris Life ? [message #84685 is a reply to message #84679] |
Wed, 16 May 2007 14:12 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Native can do this in another way with ASIO direct monitoring but you will
needa MADI rig or Furman HDS-16 for large sessions
Or a Mixer (Analog or Digital)...
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>From my own personal standpoint, it's hard to compare apples to apples but
>these are the tradeoffs as I see them:
>
>Paris had the advantage when tracking due to zero latency
>Native can do this in another way with ASIO direct monitoring but you will
>needa MADI rig or Furman HDS-16 for large sessions
>Native is much better when it comes to integrating plugins like UAD-1
>Native requires much more horsepower if you want to run it in low latency
>mode like Paris-think dual socket mobo/dual core CPU
>Native has higher sample rates available - Paris does not
>Native does not have submix issues if you use the proper hardware-if you
>don't, it definitely will when tracking (see references to Furman cue
>system)
>Native integrates VSTi's , but will require a separate computer right now
to
>run heavy VSTi track counts because of Windows memory limitations so that's
>not much different than Paris. The cure for this would be either to use
a
>monster Mac or wait for the Vista suckage to be resolved...if ever.
>Native has control surfaces available with automated faders and cool goodies
>like that.
>Native has great midi and some incredible flexiility as far as editing and
>manipulating of audio tempo, etc.
>It's nice being able to integrate everything on one machine for mixing.
>There *is* a learning curve, but it's a fun one (for me). I still use the
>Neve 5042. I think I would not like the sound of Cubase 4 *for my purposes*,
>without it.
>
>I think Paris sounds better right out of the box. Without a monster computer
>and a tape emulator, native doesn't = Paris, IMO. With these items, it can,
>and does. Cost wise, the more I/O, the greater the cost differential between
>the two systems. To recreate my native system with as many I/O as my Paris
>system had (as it will be in about 2 weeks), plus the ability to operate
at
>the same low latencies as Paris you would need:
>
>3 x RME HDSP 9652's and 1 RME Multiface (2 of the HDSP's in the master
>computer, the other in a slave box for streaming VSTi's to the master
>box)-Appx $1800.00 street
>1 x 13 slot Magma for the HDSP's in the Master box-appx $500.00 street
>1 computer running an Opteron 185 CPU-could be built for around $1200.00
>from scratch
>1 computer running 2 x Opteron 2218 CPU's on a server system-could be built
>for around $2500.00 from scratch
>2 x RME ADI8-DS's-Street on two of these these is around $2400.00 ($1.2k
a
>piece average)
>1 RME ADI4-DD-street is around $600.00
>1 x Mytek Stereo 96 A/D-Street at $800.00
>1 x Mytek Stereo 96 D/A-Street at $800.00
>Lucid GenX6-Street at appx $400.00-to distribute WC from Mytek AD which
is
>used as a master clock
>Neve 5042-$1650.00 (to get Parislike sound)
>Furman HDS-16 cue system to cross RME HDSP submixes when tracking - $1500.00
>(or an HDSP MADI system plus an HDSP AES 16 plus BOB-instead of using the
>Multiface and 2 x HDSP 95652's-add another $2400.00 for this - there is
also
>a Friend-chip audio digitap patchbay that will accommodate some of this
>crosscard routing for around $2k as another option. None of these options
>are cheap.
>Now add another Magma and 4 x UAD-1 cards-$2000.00
>
>That's roughly $15 ,000.00 to around $18,000.00 + depending on how you go.
>
>At this point, Pro Tools HD starts looking sorta viable if you need a big
>system.
>
>Compare the price of this to a 4 x EDS card/4 x MEC system with 4 x ADAT
>cards per MEC and an A8it and A8ot and an IF2 in 3 of the 4 x MECs.
>
>Appx prices last I looked-
>4 x MEC @ $100.00- $400.00
>3 A8iT @ $275.00 - $1650.00
>3 x A8oT @ 275.00 -$1650.00
>4 EDS @ $250.00= $1000.00
>8 x ADAT cards @ 250.00= $2000.00 (not really necessary unless you want
to
>fully interface with another DAW like I was doing)-$2000.00
>GenX6-$400.00
>Nice D/A converter for monitoring -$800.00
>computer to run Paris: Appx $1,000.00
>computer to run VSTi's-Appx $1500.00
>RME HDSP 9652 for VSTi box-$450.00
>
>That's around $10,500-------or around $9000.00 with just a couple of ADAT
>modules instead of eight of them.
>
>First you should ask............do I need all of this I/O???, because if
you
>don't, your costs will go wayyyyy down with either system.
>
>Is the difference in capabilities between the two systems worth the extra
>money to you?. If you are happy with lots of workarounds to integrate
>hardware and software with Paris, 44.1/48k sample rates and great sound
once
>you get it set up, I'd stay with Paris. You could buy a lot of nice hardware
>processors to integrate with Paris with the extra money you would save by
>staying away from native.
>
>To go native, you're going to spend a lot more, especially when it comes
to
>a computer to run the system, but from an integration/workflow standpoint,
>you're going to have fewer workarounds, but not eliminate them completely
>unless you go with the horsepower that is available to a dual quad Mac
>running Logic or Digital Performer. If you go with a Mac and the hardware
I
>have described, then add another 3500.00 - 4 K to the price of the native
>system.
>
>Things are getting ready to change pretty drastically in the near future
>too, but for now, this is what you've got to work with if you want a 24
>analog I/O with an additional 20 digital I/O native system that will achieve
>the same performance level as Paris.
>
>Deej
>
>
>Deej.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Now for the native system, add 4 x UAD-1's and another 13 slot Magma to
hold
>them and for the Paris system, whatever hardware and software you think
>would give you the same mojo. With Paris, you would have to alocate your
>hardware, *per submix*, with native, you would have it avaliable for the
>whole system.
>
>Much less to deal with by way of workarounds with Native. Much more
>expensive to get the same kind of sound.
>
>.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm finding that without the benefit of a monster computer, I see no point
>in going native
>"Rich" <studiodog_99@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:464b480a$1@linux...
>>
>> I saw you had a few issues (Hard drive Raid issues etc...) awhile back,
>> but
>> are you happy with the new system. Are you glad you moved? How bad
was
>> the learning curve - any good books / DVD's etc. that helped?
>>
>> What is the setup that you settled on and are you still using the portico
>> across the mains ...
>>
>> I have Cubase SX 3 (Don N. helped me connetct it with Paris at one point)
>> - but I still always find myself back with Paris as it's so easy to
>> track
>> in and mix in. Lack of time due to family and day job add to that!
>>
>> And thanks for all the info your always providing....
>
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: DJ how is post Paris Life ? [message #84687 is a reply to message #84679] |
Wed, 16 May 2007 14:20 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hey DL :
You are right, PT HD2acell looks great. And you get a slew of wonderful plugins
thrown in for free these days from the Evil Empire named Digi.
Say what you want about digi's business practices, they have a product that
just plain works!! The workflow in Protools is dated in my opinion, but it's
a killer recorder & Mixer and video playback machine to boot.
Now you can use the Lynx Aurora 16(s) conveters or the Apogees AD16X line
instead of the HD 192/96.
Native is cool, but theres a comfort feeling with a good DSP system as well.
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>From my own personal standpoint, it's hard to compare apples to apples but
>these are the tradeoffs as I see them:
>
>Paris had the advantage when tracking due to zero latency
>Native can do this in another way with ASIO direct monitoring but you will
>needa MADI rig or Furman HDS-16 for large sessions
>Native is much better when it comes to integrating plugins like UAD-1
>Native requires much more horsepower if you want to run it in low latency
>mode like Paris-think dual socket mobo/dual core CPU
>Native has higher sample rates available - Paris does not
>Native does not have submix issues if you use the proper hardware-if you
>don't, it definitely will when tracking (see references to Furman cue
>system)
>Native integrates VSTi's , but will require a separate computer right now
to
>run heavy VSTi track counts because of Windows memory limitations so that's
>not much different than Paris. The cure for this would be either to use
a
>monster Mac or wait for the Vista suckage to be resolved...if ever.
>Native has control surfaces available with automated faders and cool goodies
>like that.
>Native has great midi and some incredible flexiility as far as editing and
>manipulating of audio tempo, etc.
>It's nice being able to integrate everything on one machine for mixing.
>There *is* a learning curve, but it's a fun one (for me). I still use the
>Neve 5042. I think I would not like the sound of Cubase 4 *for my purposes*,
>without it.
>
>I think Paris sounds better right out of the box. Without a monster computer
>and a tape emulator, native doesn't = Paris, IMO. With these items, it can,
>and does. Cost wise, the more I/O, the greater the cost differential between
>the two systems. To recreate my native system with as many I/O as my Paris
>system had (as it will be in about 2 weeks), plus the ability to operate
at
>the same low latencies as Paris you would need:
>
>3 x RME HDSP 9652's and 1 RME Multiface (2 of the HDSP's in the master
>computer, the other in a slave box for streaming VSTi's to the master
>box)-Appx $1800.00 street
>1 x 13 slot Magma for the HDSP's in the Master box-appx $500.00 street
>1 computer running an Opteron 185 CPU-could be built for around $1200.00
>from scratch
>1 computer running 2 x Opteron 2218 CPU's on a server system-could be built
>for around $2500.00 from scratch
>2 x RME ADI8-DS's-Street on two of these these is around $2400.00 ($1.2k
a
>piece average)
>1 RME ADI4-DD-street is around $600.00
>1 x Mytek Stereo 96 A/D-Street at $800.00
>1 x Mytek Stereo 96 D/A-Street at $800.00
>Lucid GenX6-Street at appx $400.00-to distribute WC from Mytek AD which
is
>used as a master clock
>Neve 5042-$1650.00 (to get Parislike sound)
>Furman HDS-16 cue system to cross RME HDSP submixes when tracking - $1500.00
>(or an HDSP MADI system plus an HDSP AES 16 plus BOB-instead of using the
>Multiface and 2 x HDSP 95652's-add another $2400.00 for this - there is
also
>a Friend-chip audio digitap patchbay that will accommodate some of this
>crosscard routing for around $2k as another option. None of these options
>are cheap.
>Now add another Magma and 4 x UAD-1 cards-$2000.00
>
>That's roughly $15 ,000.00 to around $18,000.00 + depending on how you go.
>
>At this point, Pro Tools HD starts looking sorta viable if you need a big
>system.
>
>Compare the price of this to a 4 x EDS card/4 x MEC system with 4 x ADAT
>cards per MEC and an A8it and A8ot and an IF2 in 3 of the 4 x MECs.
>
>Appx prices last I looked-
>4 x MEC @ $100.00- $400.00
>3 A8iT @ $275.00 - $1650.00
>3 x A8oT @ 275.00 -$1650.00
>4 EDS @ $250.00= $1000.00
>8 x ADAT cards @ 250.00= $2000.00 (not really necessary unless you want
to
>fully interface with another DAW like I was doing)-$2000.00
>GenX6-$400.00
>Nice D/A converter for monitoring -$800.00
>computer to run Paris: Appx $1,000.00
>computer to run VSTi's-Appx $1500.00
>RME HDSP 9652 for VSTi box-$450.00
>
>That's around $10,500-------or around $9000.00 with just a couple of ADAT
>modules instead of eight of them.
>
>First you should ask............do I need all of this I/O???, because if
you
>don't, your costs will go wayyyyy down with either system.
>
>Is the difference in capabilities between the two systems worth the extra
>money to you?. If you are happy with lots of workarounds to integrate
>hardware and software with Paris, 44.1/48k sample rates and great sound
once
>you get it set up, I'd stay with Paris. You could buy a lot of nice hardware
>processors to integrate with Paris with the extra money you would save by
>staying away from native.
>
>To go native, you're going to spend a lot more, especially when it comes
to
>a computer to run the system, but from an integration/workflow standpoint,
>you're going to have fewer workarounds, but not eliminate them completely
>unless you go with the horsepower that is available to a dual quad Mac
>running Logic or Digital Performer. If you go with a Mac and the hardware
I
>have described, then add another 3500.00 - 4 K to the price of the native
>system.
>
>Things are getting ready to change pretty drastically in the near future
>too, but for now, this is what you've got to work with if you want a 24
>analog I/O with an additional 20 digital I/O native system that will achieve
>the same performance level as Paris.
>
>Deej
>
>
>Deej.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Now for the native system, add 4 x UAD-1's and another 13 slot Magma to
hold
>them and for the Paris system, whatever hardware and software you think
>would give you the same mojo. With Paris, you would have to alocate your
>hardware, *per submix*, with native, you would have it avaliable for the
>whole system.
>
>Much less to deal with by way of workarounds with Native. Much more
>expensive to get the same kind of sound.
>
>.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm finding that without the benefit of a monster computer, I see no point
>in going native
>"Rich" <studiodog_99@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:464b480a$1@linux...
>>
>> I saw you had a few issues (Hard drive Raid issues etc...) awhile back,
>> but
>> are you happy with the new system. Are you glad you moved? How bad
was
>> the learning curve - any good books / DVD's etc. that helped?
>>
>> What is the setup that you settled on and are you still using the portico
>> across the mains ...
>>
>> I have Cubase SX 3 (Don N. helped me connetct it with Paris at one point)
>> - but I still always find myself back with Paris as it's so easy to
>> track
>> in and mix in. Lack of time due to family and day job add to that!
>>
>> And thanks for all the info your always providing....
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: DJ how is post Paris Life ? [message #84688 is a reply to message #84684] |
Wed, 16 May 2007 14:14 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Yes Rich,
I like the converters very much, it is rock solid stable if the hardware is
configured properly (no IRQ sharing with other audio/DSP devices) and the
Neve 5042 adds that same *secret sauce* as the Paris mix bus, if the rest of
Cubase is properly gainstaged.
Deej
"Rich" <studiodog_99@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:464b7142$1@linux...
>
> But you like the RME stuff and find it stable (RME HDSP 9652's and RME
> Multiface)?
> The Neve 5042 is that good that it's worth the cost?
>
>
> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>Not necessarily. Once I get everything on one machine (which was the whole
>
>>point of going native), then everything will be OK. I'm really not sure
>
>>that's going to be a practical option, even with a more powerful machine
>
>>though. However, are simpler and easier now than they were.
>>
>>;o)
>>
>>"Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:464b6a82@linux...
>>>I *think* all of this means that it's going ok..... :)
>>>
>>> -Carl
>>>
>>> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message news:464b614f@linux...
>>>> From my own personal standpoint, it's hard to compare apples to apples
>
>>>> but
>>>> these are the tradeoffs as I see them:
>>>>
>>>> Paris had the advantage when tracking due to zero latency
>>>> Native can do this in another way with ASIO direct monitoring but you
>
>>>> will
>>>> needa MADI rig or Furman HDS-16 for large sessions
>>>> Native is much better when it comes to integrating plugins like UAD-1
>>>> Native requires much more horsepower if you want to run it in low
>>>> latency
>>>> mode like Paris-think dual socket mobo/dual core CPU
>>>> Native has higher sample rates available - Paris does not
>>>> Native does not have submix issues if you use the proper hardware-if
> you
>>>> don't, it definitely will when tracking (see references to Furman cue
>>>> system)
>>>> Native integrates VSTi's , but will require a separate computer right
> now
>>> to
>>>> run heavy VSTi track counts because of Windows memory limitations so
>>> that's
>>>> not much different than Paris. The cure for this would be either to use
> a
>>>> monster Mac or wait for the Vista suckage to be resolved...if ever.
>>>> Native has control surfaces available with automated faders and cool
>>> goodies
>>>> like that.
>>>> Native has great midi and some incredible flexiility as far as editing
>
>>>> and
>>>> manipulating of audio tempo, etc.
>>>> It's nice being able to integrate everything on one machine for mixing.
>>>> There *is* a learning curve, but it's a fun one (for me). I still use
> the
>>>> Neve 5042. I think I would not like the sound of Cubase 4 *for my
>>> purposes*,
>>>> without it.
>>>>
>>>> I think Paris sounds better right out of the box. Without a monster
>>> computer
>>>> and a tape emulator, native doesn't = Paris, IMO. With these items, it
>>> can,
>>>> and does. Cost wise, the more I/O, the greater the cost differential
>>> between
>>>> the two systems. To recreate my native system with as many I/O as my
>
>>>> Paris
>>>> system had (as it will be in about 2 weeks), plus the ability to
>>>> operate
>>> at
>>>> the same low latencies as Paris you would need:
>>>>
>>>> 3 x RME HDSP 9652's and 1 RME Multiface (2 of the HDSP's in the master
>>>> computer, the other in a slave box for streaming VSTi's to the master
>>>> box)-Appx $1800.00 street
>>>> 1 x 13 slot Magma for the HDSP's in the Master box-appx $500.00 street
>>>> 1 computer running an Opteron 185 CPU-could be built for around
>>>> $1200.00
>>>> from scratch
>>>> 1 computer running 2 x Opteron 2218 CPU's on a server system-could be
>>> built
>>>> for around $2500.00 from scratch
>>>> 2 x RME ADI8-DS's-Street on two of these these is around $2400.00
>>>> ($1.2k
>
>>>> a
>>>> piece average)
>>>> 1 RME ADI4-DD-street is around $600.00
>>>> 1 x Mytek Stereo 96 A/D-Street at $800.00
>>>> 1 x Mytek Stereo 96 D/A-Street at $800.00
>>>> Lucid GenX6-Street at appx $400.00-to distribute WC from Mytek AD which
>
>>>> is
>>>> used as a master clock
>>>> Neve 5042-$1650.00 (to get Parislike sound)
>>>> Furman HDS-16 cue system to cross RME HDSP submixes when tracking -
>>> $1500.00
>>>> (or an HDSP MADI system plus an HDSP AES 16 plus BOB-instead of using
> the
>>>> Multiface and 2 x HDSP 95652's-add another $2400.00 for this - there
> is
>>> also
>>>> a Friend-chip audio digitap patchbay that will accommodate some of this
>>>> crosscard routing for around $2k as another option. None of these
>>>> options
>>>> are cheap.
>>>> Now add another Magma and 4 x UAD-1 cards-$2000.00
>>>>
>>>> That's roughly $15 ,000.00 to around $18,000.00 + depending on how you
>
>>>> go.
>>>>
>>>> At this point, Pro Tools HD starts looking sorta viable if you need a
> big
>>>> system.
>>>>
>>>> Compare the price of this to a 4 x EDS card/4 x MEC system with 4 x
>>>> ADAT
>>>> cards per MEC and an A8it and A8ot and an IF2 in 3 of the 4 x MECs.
>>>>
>>>> Appx prices last I looked-
>>>> 4 x MEC @ $100.00- $400.00
>>>> 3 A8iT @ $275.00 - $1650.00
>>>> 3 x A8oT @ 275.00 -$1650.00
>>>> 4 EDS @ $250.00= $1000.00
>>>> 8 x ADAT cards @ 250.00= $2000.00 (not really necessary unless you want
>
>>>> to
>>>> fully interface with another DAW like I was doing)-$2000.00
>>>> GenX6-$400.00
>>>> Nice D/A converter for monitoring -$800.00
>>>> computer to run Paris: Appx $1,000.00
>>>> computer to run VSTi's-Appx $1500.00
>>>> RME HDSP 9652 for VSTi box-$450.00
>>>>
>>>> That's around $10,500-------or around $9000.00 with just a couple of
> ADAT
>>>> modules instead of eight of them.
>>>>
>>>> First you should ask............do I need all of this I/O???, because
> if
>>> you
>>>> don't, your costs will go wayyyyy down with either system.
>>>>
>>>> Is the difference in capabilities between the two systems worth the
>>>> extra
>>>> money to you?. If you are happy with lots of workarounds to integrate
>>>> hardware and software with Paris, 44.1/48k sample rates and great sound
>>> once
>>>> you get it set up, I'd stay with Paris. You could buy a lot of nice
>>> hardware
>>>> processors to integrate with Paris with the extra money you would save
> by
>>>> staying away from native.
>>>>
>>>> To go native, you're going to spend a lot more, especially when it
>>>> comes
>>> to
>>>> a computer to run the system, but from an integration/workflow
>>>> standpoint,
>>>> you're going to have fewer workarounds, but not eliminate them
>>>> completely
>>>> unless you go with the horsepower that is available to a dual quad Mac
>>>> running Logic or Digital Performer. If you go with a Mac and the
>>>> hardware
>>> I
>>>> have described, then add another 3500.00 - 4 K to the price of the
>>>> native
>>>> system.
>>>>
>>>> Things are getting ready to change pretty drastically in the near
>>>> future
>>>> too, but for now, this is what you've got to work with if you want a
> 24
>>>> analog I/O with an additional 20 digital I/O native system that will
>>> achieve
>>>> the same performance level as Paris.
>>>>
>>>> Deej
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Deej.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now for the native system, add 4 x UAD-1's and another 13 slot Magma
> to
>>> hold
>>>> them and for the Paris system, whatever hardware and software you think
>>>> would give you the same mojo. With Paris, you would have to alocate
>>>> your
>>>> hardware, *per submix*, with native, you would have it avaliable for
> the
>>>> whole system.
>>>>
>>>> Much less to deal with by way of workarounds with Native. Much more
>>>> expensive to get the same kind of sound.
>>>>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm finding that without the benefit of a monster computer, I see no
>>> point
>>>> in going native
>>>> "Rich" <studiodog_99@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:464b480a$1@linux...
>>>> >
>>>> > I saw you had a few issues (Hard drive Raid issues etc...) awhile
>>>> > back,
>>>> > but
>>>> > are you happy with the new system. Are you glad you moved? How
> bad
>>> was
>>>> > the learning curve - any good books / DVD's etc. that helped?
>>>> >
>>>> > What is the setup that you settled on and are you still using the
>>> portico
>>>> > across the mains ...
>>>> >
>>>> > I have Cubase SX 3 (Don N. helped me connetct it with Paris at one
>>> point)
>>>> > - but I still always find myself back with Paris as it's so easy
> to
>>>> > track
>>>> > in and mix in. Lack of time due to family and day job add to that!
>>>> >
>>>> > And thanks for all the info your always providing....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: DJ how is post Paris Life ? [message #84691 is a reply to message #84679] |
Wed, 16 May 2007 17:15 |
JeffH
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2007
Location: Wamic, OR
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Deej,
DOes the Genx6 limit you to 48K or can it distribute higher sample rates?
JH
> From my own personal standpoint, it's hard to compare apples to apples but
> these are the tradeoffs as I see them:
>
> Paris had the advantage when tracking due to zero latency
> Native can do this in another way with ASIO direct monitoring but you will
> needa MADI rig or Furman HDS-16 for large sessions
> Native is much better when it comes to integrating plugins like UAD-1
> Native requires much more horsepower if you want to run it in low latency
> mode like Paris-think dual socket mobo/dual core CPU
> Native has higher sample rates available - Paris does not
> Native does not have submix issues if you use the proper hardware-if you
> don't, it definitely will when tracking (see references to Furman cue
> system)
> Native integrates VSTi's , but will require a separate computer right now to
> run heavy VSTi track counts because of Windows memory limitations so that's
> not much different than Paris. The cure for this would be either to use a
> monster Mac or wait for the Vista suckage to be resolved...if ever.
> Native has control surfaces available with automated faders and cool goodies
> like that.
> Native has great midi and some incredible flexiility as far as editing and
> manipulating of audio tempo, etc.
> It's nice being able to integrate everything on one machine for mixing.
> There *is* a learning curve, but it's a fun one (for me). I still use the
> Neve 5042. I think I would not like the sound of Cubase 4 *for my purposes*,
> without it.
>
> I think Paris sounds better right out of the box. Without a monster computer
> and a tape emulator, native doesn't = Paris, IMO. With these items, it can,
> and does. Cost wise, the more I/O, the greater the cost differential between
> the two systems. To recreate my native system with as many I/O as my Paris
> system had (as it will be in about 2 weeks), plus the ability to operate at
> the same low latencies as Paris you would need:
>
> 3 x RME HDSP 9652's and 1 RME Multiface (2 of the HDSP's in the master
> computer, the other in a slave box for streaming VSTi's to the master
> box)-Appx $1800.00 street
> 1 x 13 slot Magma for the HDSP's in the Master box-appx $500.00 street
> 1 computer running an Opteron 185 CPU-could be built for around $1200.00
> from scratch
> 1 computer running 2 x Opteron 2218 CPU's on a server system-could be built
> for around $2500.00 from scratch
> 2 x RME ADI8-DS's-Street on two of these these is around $2400.00 ($1.2k a
> piece average)
> 1 RME ADI4-DD-street is around $600.00
> 1 x Mytek Stereo 96 A/D-Street at $800.00
> 1 x Mytek Stereo 96 D/A-Street at $800.00
> Lucid GenX6-Street at appx $400.00-to distribute WC from Mytek AD which is
> used as a master clock
> Neve 5042-$1650.00 (to get Parislike sound)
> Furman HDS-16 cue system to cross RME HDSP submixes when tracking - $1500.00
> (or an HDSP MADI system plus an HDSP AES 16 plus BOB-instead of using the
> Multiface and 2 x HDSP 95652's-add another $2400.00 for this - there is also
> a Friend-chip audio digitap patchbay that will accommodate some of this
> crosscard routing for around $2k as another option. None of these options
> are cheap.
> Now add another Magma and 4 x UAD-1 cards-$2000.00
>
> That's roughly $15 ,000.00 to around $18,000.00 + depending on how you go.
>
> At this point, Pro Tools HD starts looking sorta viable if you need a big
> system.
>
> Compare the price of this to a 4 x EDS card/4 x MEC system with 4 x ADAT
> cards per MEC and an A8it and A8ot and an IF2 in 3 of the 4 x MECs.
>
> Appx prices last I looked-
> 4 x MEC @ $100.00- $400.00
> 3 A8iT @ $275.00 - $1650.00
> 3 x A8oT @ 275.00 -$1650.00
> 4 EDS @ $250.00= $1000.00
> 8 x ADAT cards @ 250.00= $2000.00 (not really necessary unless you want to
> fully interface with another DAW like I was doing)-$2000.00
> GenX6-$400.00
> Nice D/A converter for monitoring -$800.00
> computer to run Paris: Appx $1,000.00
> computer to run VSTi's-Appx $1500.00
> RME HDSP 9652 for VSTi box-$450.00
>
> That's around $10,500-------or around $9000.00 with just a couple of ADAT
> modules instead of eight of them.
>
> First you should ask............do I need all of this I/O???, because if you
> don't, your costs will go wayyyyy down with either system.
>
> Is the difference in capabilities between the two systems worth the extra
> money to you?. If you are happy with lots of workarounds to integrate
> hardware and software with Paris, 44.1/48k sample rates and great sound once
> you get it set up, I'd stay with Paris. You could buy a lot of nice hardware
> processors to integrate with Paris with the extra money you would save by
> staying away from native.
>
> To go native, you're going to spend a lot more, especially when it comes to
> a computer to run the system, but from an integration/workflow standpoint,
> you're going to have fewer workarounds, but not eliminate them completely
> unless you go with the horsepower that is available to a dual quad Mac
> running Logic or Digital Performer. If you go with a Mac and the hardware I
> have described, then add another 3500.00 - 4 K to the price of the native
> system.
>
> Things are getting ready to change pretty drastically in the near future
> too, but for now, this is what you've got to work with if you want a 24
> analog I/O with an additional 20 digital I/O native system that will achieve
> the same performance level as Paris.
>
> Deej
>
>
> Deej.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Now for the native system, add 4 x UAD-1's and another 13 slot Magma to hold
> them and for the Paris system, whatever hardware and software you think
> would give you the same mojo. With Paris, you would have to alocate your
> hardware, *per submix*, with native, you would have it avaliable for the
> whole system.
>
> Much less to deal with by way of workarounds with Native. Much more
> expensive to get the same kind of sound.
>
> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm finding that without the benefit of a monster computer, I see no point
> in going native
> "Rich" <studiodog_99@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:464b480a$1@linux...
>
>>I saw you had a few issues (Hard drive Raid issues etc...) awhile back,
>>but
>>are you happy with the new system. Are you glad you moved? How bad was
>>the learning curve - any good books / DVD's etc. that helped?
>>
>>What is the setup that you settled on and are you still using the portico
>>across the mains ...
>>
>>I have Cubase SX 3 (Don N. helped me connetct it with Paris at one point)
>>- but I still always find myself back with Paris as it's so easy to
>>track
>>in and mix in. Lack of time due to family and day job add to that!
>>
>>And thanks for all the info your always providing....
>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: DJ how is post Paris Life ? [message #84692 is a reply to message #84691] |
Wed, 16 May 2007 17:31 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
It will distribute whatever clock is is fed. I can use it at 96k here (since
that's the limit of what I have - or would want).
;o)
"Jeff Hoover" <jkhoover@excite.com> wrote in message news:464ba03f@linux...
> Deej,
>
> DOes the Genx6 limit you to 48K or can it distribute higher sample rates?
>
> JH
>
>
>> From my own personal standpoint, it's hard to compare apples to apples
>> but these are the tradeoffs as I see them:
>>
>> Paris had the advantage when tracking due to zero latency
>> Native can do this in another way with ASIO direct monitoring but you
>> will needa MADI rig or Furman HDS-16 for large sessions
>> Native is much better when it comes to integrating plugins like UAD-1
>> Native requires much more horsepower if you want to run it in low latency
>> mode like Paris-think dual socket mobo/dual core CPU
>> Native has higher sample rates available - Paris does not
>> Native does not have submix issues if you use the proper hardware-if you
>> don't, it definitely will when tracking (see references to Furman cue
>> system)
>> Native integrates VSTi's , but will require a separate computer right now
>> to run heavy VSTi track counts because of Windows memory limitations so
>> that's not much different than Paris. The cure for this would be either
>> to use a monster Mac or wait for the Vista suckage to be resolved...if
>> ever.
>> Native has control surfaces available with automated faders and cool
>> goodies like that.
>> Native has great midi and some incredible flexiility as far as editing
>> and manipulating of audio tempo, etc.
>> It's nice being able to integrate everything on one machine for mixing.
>> There *is* a learning curve, but it's a fun one (for me). I still use the
>> Neve 5042. I think I would not like the sound of Cubase 4 *for my
>> purposes*, without it.
>>
>> I think Paris sounds better right out of the box. Without a monster
>> computer and a tape emulator, native doesn't = Paris, IMO. With these
>> items, it can, and does. Cost wise, the more I/O, the greater the cost
>> differential between the two systems. To recreate my native system with
>> as many I/O as my Paris system had (as it will be in about 2 weeks),
>> plus the ability to operate at the same low latencies as Paris you would
>> need:
>>
>> 3 x RME HDSP 9652's and 1 RME Multiface (2 of the HDSP's in the master
>> computer, the other in a slave box for streaming VSTi's to the master
>> box)-Appx $1800.00 street
>> 1 x 13 slot Magma for the HDSP's in the Master box-appx $500.00 street
>> 1 computer running an Opteron 185 CPU-could be built for around $1200.00
>> from scratch
>> 1 computer running 2 x Opteron 2218 CPU's on a server system-could be
>> built for around $2500.00 from scratch
>> 2 x RME ADI8-DS's-Street on two of these these is around $2400.00 ($1.2k
>> a piece average)
>> 1 RME ADI4-DD-street is around $600.00
>> 1 x Mytek Stereo 96 A/D-Street at $800.00
>> 1 x Mytek Stereo 96 D/A-Street at $800.00
>> Lucid GenX6-Street at appx $400.00-to distribute WC from Mytek AD which
>> is used as a master clock
>> Neve 5042-$1650.00 (to get Parislike sound)
>> Furman HDS-16 cue system to cross RME HDSP submixes when tracking -
>> $1500.00 (or an HDSP MADI system plus an HDSP AES 16 plus BOB-instead of
>> using the Multiface and 2 x HDSP 95652's-add another $2400.00 for this -
>> there is also a Friend-chip audio digitap patchbay that will accommodate
>> some of this crosscard routing for around $2k as another option. None of
>> these options are cheap.
>> Now add another Magma and 4 x UAD-1 cards-$2000.00
>>
>> That's roughly $15 ,000.00 to around $18,000.00 + depending on how you
>> go.
>>
>> At this point, Pro Tools HD starts looking sorta viable if you need a big
>> system.
>>
>> Compare the price of this to a 4 x EDS card/4 x MEC system with 4 x ADAT
>> cards per MEC and an A8it and A8ot and an IF2 in 3 of the 4 x MECs.
>>
>> Appx prices last I looked-
>> 4 x MEC @ $100.00- $400.00
>> 3 A8iT @ $275.00 - $1650.00
>> 3 x A8oT @ 275.00 -$1650.00
>> 4 EDS @ $250.00= $1000.00
>> 8 x ADAT cards @ 250.00= $2000.00 (not really necessary unless you want
>> to fully interface with another DAW like I was doing)-$2000.00
>> GenX6-$400.00
>> Nice D/A converter for monitoring -$800.00
>> computer to run Paris: Appx $1,000.00
>> computer to run VSTi's-Appx $1500.00
>> RME HDSP 9652 for VSTi box-$450.00
>>
>> That's around $10,500-------or around $9000.00 with just a couple of ADAT
>> modules instead of eight of them.
>>
>> First you should ask............do I need all of this I/O???, because if
>> you don't, your costs will go wayyyyy down with either system.
>>
>> Is the difference in capabilities between the two systems worth the extra
>> money to you?. If you are happy with lots of workarounds to integrate
>> hardware and software with Paris, 44.1/48k sample rates and great sound
>> once you get it set up, I'd stay with Paris. You could buy a lot of nice
>> hardware processors to integrate with Paris with the extra money you
>> would save by staying away from native.
>>
>> To go native, you're going to spend a lot more, especially when it comes
>> to a computer to run the system, but from an integration/workflow
>> standpoint, you're going to have fewer workarounds, but not eliminate
>> them completely unless you go with the horsepower that is available to a
>> dual quad Mac running Logic or Digital Performer. If you go with a Mac
>> and the hardware I have described, then add another 3500.00 - 4 K to the
>> price of the native system.
>>
>> Things are getting ready to change pretty drastically in the near future
>> too, but for now, this is what you've got to work with if you want a 24
>> analog I/O with an additional 20 digital I/O native system that will
>> achieve the same performance level as Paris.
>>
>> Deej
>>
>>
>> Deej.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Now for the native system, add 4 x UAD-1's and another 13 slot Magma to
>> hold them and for the Paris system, whatever hardware and software you
>> think would give you the same mojo. With Paris, you would have to alocate
>> your hardware, *per submix*, with native, you would have it avaliable for
>> the whole system.
>>
>> Much less to deal with by way of workarounds with Native. Much more
>> expensive to get the same kind of sound.
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm finding that without the benefit of a monster computer, I see no
>> point in going native
>> "Rich" <studiodog_99@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:464b480a$1@linux...
>>
>>>I saw you had a few issues (Hard drive Raid issues etc...) awhile back,
>>>but
>>>are you happy with the new system. Are you glad you moved? How bad
>>>was
>>>the learning curve - any good books / DVD's etc. that helped?
>>>
>>>What is the setup that you settled on and are you still using the portico
>>>across the mains ...
>>>
>>>I have Cubase SX 3 (Don N. helped me connetct it with Paris at one point)
>>>- but I still always find myself back with Paris as it's so easy to
>>>track
>>>in and mix in. Lack of time due to family and day job add to that!
>>>
>>>And thanks for all the info your always providing....
>>
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: DJ how is post Paris Life ? [message #84693 is a reply to message #84692] |
Wed, 16 May 2007 17:58 |
JeffH
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2007
Location: Wamic, OR
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Cool... I guess my Genx is going to be with me a little longer
:-)
JH
DJ wrote:
> It will distribute whatever clock is is fed. I can use it at 96k here (since
> that's the limit of what I have - or would want).
>
> ;o)
>
> "Jeff Hoover" <jkhoover@excite.com> wrote in message news:464ba03f@linux...
>
>>Deej,
>>
>>DOes the Genx6 limit you to 48K or can it distribute higher sample rates?
>>
>>JH
>>
>>
>>
>>>From my own personal standpoint, it's hard to compare apples to apples
>>>but these are the tradeoffs as I see them:
>>>
>>>Paris had the advantage when tracking due to zero latency
>>>Native can do this in another way with ASIO direct monitoring but you
>>>will needa MADI rig or Furman HDS-16 for large sessions
>>>Native is much better when it comes to integrating plugins like UAD-1
>>>Native requires much more horsepower if you want to run it in low latency
>>>mode like Paris-think dual socket mobo/dual core CPU
>>>Native has higher sample rates available - Paris does not
>>>Native does not have submix issues if you use the proper hardware-if you
>>>don't, it definitely will when tracking (see references to Furman cue
>>>system)
>>>Native integrates VSTi's , but will require a separate computer right now
>>>to run heavy VSTi track counts because of Windows memory limitations so
>>>that's not much different than Paris. The cure for this would be either
>>>to use a monster Mac or wait for the Vista suckage to be resolved...if
>>>ever.
>>>Native has control surfaces available with automated faders and cool
>>>goodies like that.
>>>Native has great midi and some incredible flexiility as far as editing
>>>and manipulating of audio tempo, etc.
>>>It's nice being able to integrate everything on one machine for mixing.
>>>There *is* a learning curve, but it's a fun one (for me). I still use the
>>>Neve 5042. I think I would not like the sound of Cubase 4 *for my
>>>purposes*, without it.
>>>
>>>I think Paris sounds better right out of the box. Without a monster
>>>computer and a tape emulator, native doesn't = Paris, IMO. With these
>>>items, it can, and does. Cost wise, the more I/O, the greater the cost
>>>differential between the two systems. To recreate my native system with
>>>as many I/O as my Paris system had (as it will be in about 2 weeks),
>>>plus the ability to operate at the same low latencies as Paris you would
>>>need:
>>>
>>>3 x RME HDSP 9652's and 1 RME Multiface (2 of the HDSP's in the master
>>>computer, the other in a slave box for streaming VSTi's to the master
>>>box)-Appx $1800.00 street
>>>1 x 13 slot Magma for the HDSP's in the Master box-appx $500.00 street
>>>1 computer running an Opteron 185 CPU-could be built for around $1200.00
>>>from scratch
>>>1 computer running 2 x Opteron 2218 CPU's on a server system-could be
>>>built for around $2500.00 from scratch
>>>2 x RME ADI8-DS's-Street on two of these these is around $2400.00 ($1.2k
>>>a piece average)
>>>1 RME ADI4-DD-street is around $600.00
>>>1 x Mytek Stereo 96 A/D-Street at $800.00
>>>1 x Mytek Stereo 96 D/A-Street at $800.00
>>>Lucid GenX6-Street at appx $400.00-to distribute WC from Mytek AD which
>>>is used as a master clock
>>>Neve 5042-$1650.00 (to get Parislike sound)
>>>Furman HDS-16 cue system to cross RME HDSP submixes when tracking -
>>>$1500.00 (or an HDSP MADI system plus an HDSP AES 16 plus BOB-instead of
>>>using the Multiface and 2 x HDSP 95652's-add another $2400.00 for this -
>>>there is also a Friend-chip audio digitap patchbay that will accommodate
>>>some of this crosscard routing for around $2k as another option. None of
>>>these options are cheap.
>>>Now add another Magma and 4 x UAD-1 cards-$2000.00
>>>
>>>That's roughly $15 ,000.00 to around $18,000.00 + depending on how you
>>>go.
>>>
>>>At this point, Pro Tools HD starts looking sorta viable if you need a big
>>>system.
>>>
>>>Compare the price of this to a 4 x EDS card/4 x MEC system with 4 x ADAT
>>>cards per MEC and an A8it and A8ot and an IF2 in 3 of the 4 x MECs.
>>>
>>>Appx prices last I looked-
>>>4 x MEC @ $100.00- $400.00
>>>3 A8iT @ $275.00 - $1650.00
>>>3 x A8oT @ 275.00 -$1650.00
>>>4 EDS @ $250.00= $1000.00
>>>8 x ADAT cards @ 250.00= $2000.00 (not really necessary unless you want
>>>to fully interface with another DAW like I was doing)-$2000.00
>>>GenX6-$400.00
>>>Nice D/A converter for monitoring -$800.00
>>>computer to run Paris: Appx $1,000.00
>>>computer to run VSTi's-Appx $1500.00
>>>RME HDSP 9652 for VSTi box-$450.00
>>>
>>>That's around $10,500-------or around $9000.00 with just a couple of ADAT
>>>modules instead of eight of them.
>>>
>>>First you should ask............do I need all of this I/O???, because if
>>>you don't, your costs will go wayyyyy down with either system.
>>>
>>>Is the difference in capabilities between the two systems worth the extra
>>>money to you?. If you are happy with lots of workarounds to integrate
>>>hardware and software with Paris, 44.1/48k sample rates and great sound
>>>once you get it set up, I'd stay with Paris. You could buy a lot of nice
>>>hardware processors to integrate with Paris with the extra money you
>>>would save by staying away from native.
>>>
>>>To go native, you're going to spend a lot more, especially when it comes
>>>to a computer to run the system, but from an integration/workflow
>>>standpoint, you're going to have fewer workarounds, but not eliminate
>>>them completely unless you go with the horsepower that is available to a
>>>dual quad Mac running Logic or Digital Performer. If you go with a Mac
>>>and the hardware I have described, then add another 3500.00 - 4 K to the
>>>price of the native system.
>>>
>>>Things are getting ready to change pretty drastically in the near future
>>>too, but for now, this is what you've got to work with if you want a 24
>>>analog I/O with an additional 20 digital I/O native system that will
>>>achieve the same performance level as Paris.
>>>
>>>Deej
>>>
>>>
>>>Deej.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Now for the native system, add 4 x UAD-1's and another 13 slot Magma to
>>>hold them and for the Paris system, whatever hardware and software you
>>>think would give you the same mojo. With Paris, you would have to alocate
>>>your hardware, *per submix*, with native, you would have it avaliable for
>>>the whole system.
>>>
>>>Much less to deal with by way of workarounds with Native. Much more
>>>expensive to get the same kind of sound.
>>>
>>>.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm finding that without the benefit of a monster computer, I see no
>>>point in going native
>>>"Rich" <studiodog_99@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:464b480a$1@linux...
>>>
>>>
>>>>I saw you had a few issues (Hard drive Raid issues etc...) awhile back,
>>>>but
>>>>are you happy with the new system. Are you glad you moved? How bad
>>>>was
>>>>the learning curve - any good books / DVD's etc. that helped?
>>>>
>>>>What is the setup that you settled on and are you still using the portico
>>>>across the mains ...
>>>>
>>>>I have Cubase SX 3 (Don N. helped me connetct it with Paris at one point)
>>>>- but I still always find myself back with Paris as it's so easy to
>>>>track
>>>>in and mix in. Lack of time due to family and day job add to that!
>>>>
>>>>And thanks for all the info your always providing....
>>>
>>>
>
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